New car blues
December 20, 2016 10:23 AM Subscribe
My newish car has given me what seems like an inordinate amount of grief. Is this a normal amount of problems for a new car to have, and if not, is there anything I can do about it?
My car is still fairly new (bought it brand new last fall, has less than 8,000 miles on it, and I’ve taken it in for two oil changes and scheduled maintenance so far).
It’s had these issues:
Literally the day after buying it and bringing it home, there was a loud clanging sound coming from the underside of the car when braking and driving over bumps. After repeated trips (three to four) back to the dealer as well as letting them drive it for several days while I used a free loaner, they identified what they think is the problem and fixed it. It’s made the sound only intermittently since then (maybe once per month).
This past fall there was a creaking sound coming from the underside of the car whenever the weight of the vehicle shifted (braking, accelerating, etc.). It made me think of a large wooden ship at sea. Again, multiple trips to the dealer, including driving a loaner car for nearly a week while they worked on it. They could not find the source of the creak and said it wasn’t a safety hazard, so I took the car back. The creak has since stopped, for the most part.
Within the last week or so, I’ve noticed that after lifting my foot off of the gas pedal, particularly if I’ve just been accelerating, the engine revs really high, as though I am actually mashing my foot on the gas pedal. I’ve googled this and tried checking things that various forums recommend might cause the problem, to no avail. Which means, back to the dealer again.
Frankly, I’m getting sick of taking my under-8000-miles car to the dealer for various issues. The dealer is a full 40 minutes away from me (none are closer) and it’s the better part of a morning or afternoon whenever I have to take it in. This plus the fact that I paid $18,000 for a nice, new car so that I wouldn’t have to deal with things like this for at least a few years have made me quite grouchy.
Do I have any other recourse? I’m not thinking this would be covered under lemon laws as these issues don’t seem to be affecting the operation of the vehicle (at least, not as far as I know). I have zero interest in futzing around with the car myself, as many people on various forums seem to do.
I guess I’m just asking for a reality check as to how annoyed/angry I should be about this--my last car gave me tons of grief before dying and I’m really sick of wasting emotional energy on a stupid car. And is there anything I can do about it?
I should also mention that I’m being deliberately vague about the make/model of the car, but let’s just say it’s a Japanese brand known for its quality. (And it’s not a Fit.)
Thank you!
My car is still fairly new (bought it brand new last fall, has less than 8,000 miles on it, and I’ve taken it in for two oil changes and scheduled maintenance so far).
It’s had these issues:
Literally the day after buying it and bringing it home, there was a loud clanging sound coming from the underside of the car when braking and driving over bumps. After repeated trips (three to four) back to the dealer as well as letting them drive it for several days while I used a free loaner, they identified what they think is the problem and fixed it. It’s made the sound only intermittently since then (maybe once per month).
This past fall there was a creaking sound coming from the underside of the car whenever the weight of the vehicle shifted (braking, accelerating, etc.). It made me think of a large wooden ship at sea. Again, multiple trips to the dealer, including driving a loaner car for nearly a week while they worked on it. They could not find the source of the creak and said it wasn’t a safety hazard, so I took the car back. The creak has since stopped, for the most part.
Within the last week or so, I’ve noticed that after lifting my foot off of the gas pedal, particularly if I’ve just been accelerating, the engine revs really high, as though I am actually mashing my foot on the gas pedal. I’ve googled this and tried checking things that various forums recommend might cause the problem, to no avail. Which means, back to the dealer again.
Frankly, I’m getting sick of taking my under-8000-miles car to the dealer for various issues. The dealer is a full 40 minutes away from me (none are closer) and it’s the better part of a morning or afternoon whenever I have to take it in. This plus the fact that I paid $18,000 for a nice, new car so that I wouldn’t have to deal with things like this for at least a few years have made me quite grouchy.
Do I have any other recourse? I’m not thinking this would be covered under lemon laws as these issues don’t seem to be affecting the operation of the vehicle (at least, not as far as I know). I have zero interest in futzing around with the car myself, as many people on various forums seem to do.
I guess I’m just asking for a reality check as to how annoyed/angry I should be about this--my last car gave me tons of grief before dying and I’m really sick of wasting emotional energy on a stupid car. And is there anything I can do about it?
I should also mention that I’m being deliberately vague about the make/model of the car, but let’s just say it’s a Japanese brand known for its quality. (And it’s not a Fit.)
Thank you!
Does your state/locale have a "lemon law", wherein you can take a defective new car back for either a refund or exchange? And if yes, check on how long that lemon law gives you to do that trade. (I'm hoping that by 'last fall' you mean just a couple months ago, not 2015....over a year and you might be out of luck.)
posted by easily confused at 10:29 AM on December 20, 2016
posted by easily confused at 10:29 AM on December 20, 2016
Yeah dude seems like your car has had as many problems in a year as my Civic has had in 14. Not normal; I'd be angry too.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 10:31 AM on December 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by goodbyewaffles at 10:31 AM on December 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Our local lemon laws only cover the first 12 months--I've had this car for 14 months. :(
posted by whistle pig at 10:34 AM on December 20, 2016
posted by whistle pig at 10:34 AM on December 20, 2016
Just a data point, but I've purchased a number of new cars. Most have an issue or two, usually very minor. If I'm reading correctly, this sounds like three issues, which is enough that it would annoy me, but not so many that I'd think "lemon." I would be annoyed by how long it seems to be taking them to fix the problems, though.
posted by primethyme at 10:42 AM on December 20, 2016
posted by primethyme at 10:42 AM on December 20, 2016
I'd be very annoyed, exactly because having an extended maintenance-free period is one of the reasons you pay the extra bucks for a brand-new car.
The creaking and groaning and clanging made me read your post twice to see whether you'd bought a used car that was previously in an accident, and had its suspension damaged (and not disclosed to you). I'm not a car person, though, and hopefully Brockles will chime in, because he is.
At this point, I'd use angie's list or friends' recommendations to find a good local mechanic. You'll want to get regular stuff like oil changes done closer anyway (this does not void your warranty -- you don't have to go to the dealer). And more pointedly, you want a second opinion on what the current problems are.
posted by Dashy at 10:42 AM on December 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
The creaking and groaning and clanging made me read your post twice to see whether you'd bought a used car that was previously in an accident, and had its suspension damaged (and not disclosed to you). I'm not a car person, though, and hopefully Brockles will chime in, because he is.
At this point, I'd use angie's list or friends' recommendations to find a good local mechanic. You'll want to get regular stuff like oil changes done closer anyway (this does not void your warranty -- you don't have to go to the dealer). And more pointedly, you want a second opinion on what the current problems are.
posted by Dashy at 10:42 AM on December 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Maybe the laws do, maybe they don't cover you --- but since this is an ongoing problem, with things you've reported to the dealer since literally the day after buying the car (!), it might be worth getting a consultation with a lawyer to see if you are covered. And if that doesn't work, contact whichever local TV news station has a consumer watchdog-type reporter and see if they can help.
posted by easily confused at 10:46 AM on December 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 10:46 AM on December 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
With some lemon laws, it's not necessarily how long you've owned the car. Rather, it's based on when you first present the problem to the dealership. A year may have passed, but if you first brought the problem to the dealer after only four months of ownership and the problem persists, you might be covered.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:57 AM on December 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 10:57 AM on December 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
Our local lemon laws only cover the first 12 months--I've had this car for 14 months. :(
Has a lawyer told you that? Hell, have three lawyers told you that? There's a nonzero chance that your dealership would rather not go on the record as fighting this case if they can just hand you a last-year's-model of the car that they were likely to have to eat anyway.
posted by Etrigan at 11:13 AM on December 20, 2016
Has a lawyer told you that? Hell, have three lawyers told you that? There's a nonzero chance that your dealership would rather not go on the record as fighting this case if they can just hand you a last-year's-model of the car that they were likely to have to eat anyway.
posted by Etrigan at 11:13 AM on December 20, 2016
You should be grouchy. That's not normal. Or at least shouldn't be.
But: before going the lawyer route, consider the following. (And this info is based only on some of my past experiences, and the experiences of friends, so take it as it is presented.)
Get the contact number for a factory rep and explain all your problems, with dates, diagnosis, attempts at repairs, how long you were without the car, etc. Documentation is good. But this is important: DO NOT say anything about a lawyer or filing suit, or lemon laws, to anyone involved. Once you say "lawyer" they get into a very different mindset, and may not even make further efforts to be helpful outside of legal recourse. I don't know why this is, but it's just the way auto companies seem to work.
So, give the factory rep all the info and ask what can be done to rectify the situation. Don't be afraid to be a bit of a pest. Lemon laws aside, there is certainly a warranty of some sort, and you may be able to get them to cover things that should have already been fixed before the warranty expired.
A couple (of several) data points about the whole "don't say lawyer" thing.
1- I had a terrible lemon of a Ford Escort many years ago that I bought new. It had transmission issues that were never fixed under warranty. The warranty expired after a year, but I was able to get contact a factory rep who extended the warranty to cover the transmission, and who tracked down the issue that the dealer's mechanics couldn't figure out. I didn't say "lawyer" at all. That same car had bad CV joints that needed to be replaced with only 30K miles on the car, less than two years old. I took it to the dealer and they quoted me a price. When I asked if failing CV joints was normal, the manager frankly said that they shouldn't fail that soon, and that he has seen brand new Escorts of that year with bad joints, but, too bad, it's not under warranty. My (now ex-) wife threatened legal action, and the manager immediately said that he couldn't deal with me any more, and that I'd have to "call the national number" if I was talking about litigation. (Yup, I ended up paying for the repair.)
2- A friend of mine bought a generally reliable brand of brand new compact car. He had nothing but problems for almost a year; obviously he got a bad one. Things were fixed, and other things broke. He talked to the dealer who advised him to call the factory rep and tell him the whole story. But, he said it was important that he not mention lawyers or litigation, but just that he wanted to issue fixed. The end result was that they bought the car back at a higher price than he paid and he was able to buy a different model of car from the same dealer, and still have cash left over. He as very happy and the new car has been great.
Good luck! It can be very frustrating dealing with these issues.
posted by The Deej at 11:17 AM on December 20, 2016
But: before going the lawyer route, consider the following. (And this info is based only on some of my past experiences, and the experiences of friends, so take it as it is presented.)
Get the contact number for a factory rep and explain all your problems, with dates, diagnosis, attempts at repairs, how long you were without the car, etc. Documentation is good. But this is important: DO NOT say anything about a lawyer or filing suit, or lemon laws, to anyone involved. Once you say "lawyer" they get into a very different mindset, and may not even make further efforts to be helpful outside of legal recourse. I don't know why this is, but it's just the way auto companies seem to work.
So, give the factory rep all the info and ask what can be done to rectify the situation. Don't be afraid to be a bit of a pest. Lemon laws aside, there is certainly a warranty of some sort, and you may be able to get them to cover things that should have already been fixed before the warranty expired.
A couple (of several) data points about the whole "don't say lawyer" thing.
1- I had a terrible lemon of a Ford Escort many years ago that I bought new. It had transmission issues that were never fixed under warranty. The warranty expired after a year, but I was able to get contact a factory rep who extended the warranty to cover the transmission, and who tracked down the issue that the dealer's mechanics couldn't figure out. I didn't say "lawyer" at all. That same car had bad CV joints that needed to be replaced with only 30K miles on the car, less than two years old. I took it to the dealer and they quoted me a price. When I asked if failing CV joints was normal, the manager frankly said that they shouldn't fail that soon, and that he has seen brand new Escorts of that year with bad joints, but, too bad, it's not under warranty. My (now ex-) wife threatened legal action, and the manager immediately said that he couldn't deal with me any more, and that I'd have to "call the national number" if I was talking about litigation. (Yup, I ended up paying for the repair.)
2- A friend of mine bought a generally reliable brand of brand new compact car. He had nothing but problems for almost a year; obviously he got a bad one. Things were fixed, and other things broke. He talked to the dealer who advised him to call the factory rep and tell him the whole story. But, he said it was important that he not mention lawyers or litigation, but just that he wanted to issue fixed. The end result was that they bought the car back at a higher price than he paid and he was able to buy a different model of car from the same dealer, and still have cash left over. He as very happy and the new car has been great.
Good luck! It can be very frustrating dealing with these issues.
posted by The Deej at 11:17 AM on December 20, 2016
A couple (of several) data points about the whole "don't say lawyer" thing.
As a general matter, you very rarely do better with large corporations by forfeiting a powerful weapon in the dispute. It's worth exhausting non-litigation approaches first, if only because they're cheaper than the alternative, and it's always worth approaching a problem with a cooperative rather than a combative spirit at first. But the idea that if you are just meek and humble enough and pretend you don't know your rights, the company will have mercy on you, but if you breathe a hint of them, they won't--that's fantasy.
OP, you may also consider contacting your state attorney general if informal approaches don't work. Often (not always) they have free programs to facilitate informal mediation of consumer disputes. While they won't represent you individually, the state's getting involved often puts pressure on the company to do the right thing.
posted by praemunire at 11:51 AM on December 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
As a general matter, you very rarely do better with large corporations by forfeiting a powerful weapon in the dispute. It's worth exhausting non-litigation approaches first, if only because they're cheaper than the alternative, and it's always worth approaching a problem with a cooperative rather than a combative spirit at first. But the idea that if you are just meek and humble enough and pretend you don't know your rights, the company will have mercy on you, but if you breathe a hint of them, they won't--that's fantasy.
OP, you may also consider contacting your state attorney general if informal approaches don't work. Often (not always) they have free programs to facilitate informal mediation of consumer disputes. While they won't represent you individually, the state's getting involved often puts pressure on the company to do the right thing.
posted by praemunire at 11:51 AM on December 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Sounds like your car has some major structural problem that's making it flex too much under various loads.
I'd guess they merely bent something out of the way that was impinging on another part when it flexed, and now it only clangs when it really flexes.
The fact that it no longer creaks is not necessarily a positive sign -- it could mean that the parts which were rubbing together are now so separated that they don't do that anymore.
The revving is harder to connect to a flexing problem, but it could conceivably be due to a disconnection between engine and drive train that occurs at the maximum point of the flexion which results when you take your foot off the gas, and allows the engine to run free of load for a moment.
posted by jamjam at 11:54 AM on December 20, 2016
I'd guess they merely bent something out of the way that was impinging on another part when it flexed, and now it only clangs when it really flexes.
The fact that it no longer creaks is not necessarily a positive sign -- it could mean that the parts which were rubbing together are now so separated that they don't do that anymore.
The revving is harder to connect to a flexing problem, but it could conceivably be due to a disconnection between engine and drive train that occurs at the maximum point of the flexion which results when you take your foot off the gas, and allows the engine to run free of load for a moment.
posted by jamjam at 11:54 AM on December 20, 2016
Spend a couple hundred bucks to have it fully inspected by a mechanic not associated with your dealer. Creaking and the like should not happen on a new car. And should be way easier to locate than you're describing if it does because it could only be a loose fastener or under-lubricated joint. It sounds like a steering, suspension, or frame issue. Was it dropped off the truck too hard? Have you run over any major curbs or potholes?
What model of car (and year) is it? Find out if others have had similar complaints.
posted by spitbull at 1:40 PM on December 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
What model of car (and year) is it? Find out if others have had similar complaints.
posted by spitbull at 1:40 PM on December 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Even if your state lemon law doesn't apply, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act may. In a successful MMWA suit, the plaintiff may recover reasonable costs of suit including attorney's fees, so you may be able to get a lawyer to handle this for you at no cost to yourself if you have a strong case.
[I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.]
posted by Juffo-Wup at 1:46 PM on December 20, 2016
[I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.]
posted by Juffo-Wup at 1:46 PM on December 20, 2016
Call and ask for the manager and ask for your money back. If that fails, go there. If that fails as it did with me, write the owner a letter. This did the trick for me several years ago. In-the-end, after two months ownership, the dealer "bought" it back and I made $1 so I got back all my money.
posted by usermac at 4:21 PM on December 20, 2016
posted by usermac at 4:21 PM on December 20, 2016
The revving during idling happened to me, (but mine's an old car on it's last legs), and here's what I tried:
- Disconnecting the battery for half an hour. This resets the computer, and it can relearn how to idle.
- Cleaning the "Idle Control Valve" with carburetor cleaner.
I did both, and it pretty much fixed the problem. Definitely disconnect the battery for a bit and see if that helps, as it's free and easy to do. I only tried to do the valve because I found a video online demonstrating it on my car model, and it's literally two screws and a can of $10 cleaner. I double checked with the guys who sold me the cleaner that what I was doing made sense.
And yeah, I'd be pissed if my newish car broke that often.
posted by kjs4 at 6:37 PM on December 20, 2016
- Disconnecting the battery for half an hour. This resets the computer, and it can relearn how to idle.
- Cleaning the "Idle Control Valve" with carburetor cleaner.
I did both, and it pretty much fixed the problem. Definitely disconnect the battery for a bit and see if that helps, as it's free and easy to do. I only tried to do the valve because I found a video online demonstrating it on my car model, and it's literally two screws and a can of $10 cleaner. I double checked with the guys who sold me the cleaner that what I was doing made sense.
And yeah, I'd be pissed if my newish car broke that often.
posted by kjs4 at 6:37 PM on December 20, 2016
You're very unlikely to find a carburetor on a modern new car -- almost all are fuel injected anymore. Idle speeds are being set by the ECU in response to many factors. I suspect the idle issue is unrelated to the creaking.
posted by spitbull at 3:36 AM on December 21, 2016
posted by spitbull at 3:36 AM on December 21, 2016
The reason I recommend having your own mechanic is that you need to know what is wrong for real. If the dealer "can't figure it out," someone can. Cars don't make mystery noises, they just make sounds some people can't decipher.
Most things that could cause these sounds transiently are eminently fixable. You don't likely have a busted unibody/frame. So once you know what IS wrong for real, go back to your dealer and say "make me whole, fix this thing, warranty the repair, and reimburse me for my private mechanic's bill or Brand X USA corporate and Yelp and Edmunds Dealer reviews and Google reviews are going to hear all about this."
Dealers hate bad service stories being made public. Once they can be confronted with a sure diagnosis their people missed you're in the lead here.
posted by spitbull at 9:44 AM on December 22, 2016
Most things that could cause these sounds transiently are eminently fixable. You don't likely have a busted unibody/frame. So once you know what IS wrong for real, go back to your dealer and say "make me whole, fix this thing, warranty the repair, and reimburse me for my private mechanic's bill or Brand X USA corporate and Yelp and Edmunds Dealer reviews and Google reviews are going to hear all about this."
Dealers hate bad service stories being made public. Once they can be confronted with a sure diagnosis their people missed you're in the lead here.
posted by spitbull at 9:44 AM on December 22, 2016
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posted by Etrigan at 10:28 AM on December 20, 2016 [5 favorites]