For the fans of The Holy Grail...

January 6, 2006 1:00 PM

For the fans of The Holy Grail... Can you inform about l some accurate representations of the lifestyle at that time? Things such as witch burnings, catapulting dead animals over castle walls, and the system of kings and lords (basically any dirtyness).
posted by cheero to Media & Arts (30 answers total)

At what time?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:05 PM on January 6, 2006

I believe it was set in 932 A.D. ...
posted by Gator at 1:11 PM on January 6, 2006

You mean the Monty Python movie? That's what the question is about?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:16 PM on January 6, 2006

I recall an interesting Terry Jones series a few years back.
posted by the cuban at 1:16 PM on January 6, 2006

Response by poster: You mean the Monty Python movie? That's what the question is about?

Correct, sorry!
posted by cheero at 1:16 PM on January 6, 2006

When is the paper due?
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:21 PM on January 6, 2006

Yes, it's an accurate representation. When horses were scarce, it's well documented that folks made do by making clip-clop sounds using coconuts.
posted by fixedgear at 1:30 PM on January 6, 2006

For one thing they were about 400 years off for the whole Black Death thing. Are you going to share your weed with us?
posted by geoff. at 1:33 PM on January 6, 2006

2nd that, faint of butt. Better pick a different topic.
posted by cosmicbandito at 1:35 PM on January 6, 2006

Yes, animals were actually catapulted over castle walls. It's where the expression "when pigs fly" originates. It is also rumoured to be the genesis of "steak tartar"
posted by Robot Johnny at 1:43 PM on January 6, 2006

The film, apart from obvious bits like getting arrested and using coconuts to make horse noises, is probably among the most accurate out there. Which says more about Hollywood than it does abou the film, I think. I'm more thinking of medieval literature than medieval history though. There are a lot of sendups of the medieval text Quest for the Holy Grail, for example.

The Terry Jones series linked is probably good -- I saw his Crusades series & it was interesting.
posted by dagnyscott at 1:45 PM on January 6, 2006

Filth-gathering was not actually an occupation.
posted by Miko at 1:47 PM on January 6, 2006

Filth-gathering was not actually an occupation.

True, it was actually a means of repressing the proletariat.
posted by thanotopsis at 1:50 PM on January 6, 2006

Filth-gathering was not actually an occupation.


Well, perhaps not an occupation, but it was certainly a past-time. Dung was used both as a fertilizer and a fuel.

thanotopsis - pissed my pants, man.
posted by Dunwitty at 1:53 PM on January 6, 2006

Now - a shrubbist: that was not a real profession. Shrubbing was controlled entirely by the Church.
posted by Dunwitty at 1:55 PM on January 6, 2006

Even in modern times, not being covered in shit is a sure sign of being royal.
posted by veedubya at 1:56 PM on January 6, 2006

Well, perhaps not an occupation, but it was certainly a past-time. Dung was used both as a fertilizer and a fuel.

You're totally right! I also forgot about other possibilities -- pigment for clay and gouache, and earthenware pottery. So I take it all back. Gathering (certain types of) filth could have been an occupation.
posted by Miko at 2:10 PM on January 6, 2006

Pram pushers were in high demand at the time as well.
posted by terrapin at 2:37 PM on January 6, 2006

In the unlikely event that this isn't getting deleted, cheero, maybe you could clarify your question a little more? Are you asking for a homework assignment?
posted by Gator at 2:44 PM on January 6, 2006

Spamalot is also historically accurate -- People have aspired to be Broadway stars for the past 1500 years.
posted by danb at 3:28 PM on January 6, 2006

Relax, people. Even if it were for schoolwork this would qualify as 'research'.
posted by Firas at 3:52 PM on January 6, 2006

The kings-and-lords systems I can't help you with, but to get what I've heard to be a fairly accurate depiction of things, Terry Gilliam's 'Jabberwocky', specifically the dirt and the squalor that people lived in: Griselda hanging out a window with a crappy complexion and chawing on a raw potato. Her Dad? brother? hanging his ass out a window having a crap. The roads that were made out of mud. The houses that sat in the mud. Notice that this contrasts with the King, and how he wasn't living in crap. No, he wasn't too attractive, but he wasn't as ugly as others. I'd think that this would apply to churches at the time as well (from what I remember from my Western Civ in school). The series "The Worst Jobs in History" (the one hosted by Tony Robinson 'Baldrick' from "Black Adder"), gives a peripheral view of the life in the times... with a little extrapolation it's possible to guess how things may have been. Dyers having to live outside city walls because of the smell, fines for dumping the dyes in the sewers in the street. Sewers were open and ran down the streets into the river or a main culvert. All refuse was dumped in these for a while. Also see the novel 'London: The Biography' by Peter Ackroyd.
Animals - don't have a link, but I do remember reading that diseased animals were shot over the walls to possibly infect the inhabitants of the castle. If nothing else, it'd help to demoralise them.
That's all I've got....
posted by Zack_Replica at 4:06 PM on January 6, 2006

Miko, Dunwitty: Filth-collecting was indeed a full-time job, although not for another 500 years. Soil from underneath latrines was collected and processed to extract saltpetre (/saltpeter), which in turn was used in the manufacture of gunpowder. Truly the world's worst job.
posted by blag at 4:15 PM on January 6, 2006

Witches do not actually weigh the same as a duck.
posted by Flitcraft at 4:38 PM on January 6, 2006

shrubbist
"I am Roger, the shrubber."

There's a lot -- probably too much -- Black Death period detail in Connie Willis' The Doomsday Book.
posted by Aknaton at 4:50 PM on January 6, 2006

Aknaton: technically, the trade would be "shrubbistry", making Roger a "shrubbist" (LanguageFilter). However, you're right, in the movie he is Roger the Shrubber.

Funny thing is - I haven't slept in 40 hours, so I was unsure of myself when I went to make the post. So I quickly googled "Roger the Shrubbist" and I got hundreds of hits, quoting the movie incorrectly.

It's a reminder that the Internet can be just as wrong as me...
posted by Dunwitty at 6:53 PM on January 6, 2006

chawing on a raw potato

But there weren't any potatoes in Europe until the 16th century.
posted by tangerine at 7:12 PM on January 6, 2006

I suggest The Year 1000: What Life Was Like at the Turn of the First Millennium for a quick and dirty overview of the period.
posted by Goblindegook at 5:56 AM on January 7, 2006

932 ad would have been a little early for witch burnings ... the witch hysteria didn't spread widely until after the plague years

the catapulting of dead animals over the walls was more common in encounters between the west and the islamic forces

the relationships of kings and lords were very complex and varied much from one area of europe to another ... a noble could be a vassal of more than one lord ... and for a time around the 10th through 12th centuries, a king's support from his nobles was quite unsteady and unreliable ... it was an endless round of politicking and backstabbing

the grail myths present a rather idealized version of society ... in reality, nobles and knights had a tendency to be rogues
posted by pyramid termite at 8:25 AM on January 7, 2006

Jones read medieval history at university, but he's a pretty sloppy scholar (don't get me going on his maltreatment and misreading of sources in his Chaucer bio...). As others have pointed out, they cheerfully smooshed together events from about 800 years of history.

But, the dirt was right. Frequently, the 'sense' of things was right (the anarcho-sydicalist peasent commune was an anachronism, but the king not carring about the peasant was dead on).

If I were still in college, and wanted to compare a Hollywood film with life in the Middle Ages, I'd pick "The Lion in Winter." Or, if I weren't limiting myself to Hollywood, "Utlanginn."

Oh, and, yes, violence was inherent in the system.
posted by QIbHom at 1:28 PM on January 7, 2006