The 33 Year Old (quasi) Virgin
August 19, 2016 5:18 AM
I started out as Emma. But I've turned into Miss Bates.
So, now that I've outed myself, let me explain:
Ok. Here is my situation. Once upon a time I was a (fairly) healthy, (fairly) well adjusted young woman. But only for a short time. Since the age of 19, I have been sick. I guess I have basically spent my entire adult life dealing with chronic illness.
When I was 19, I was diagnosed with this.
Good times.
Then, in angry defiance of my diagnosis, I jumped into a (unbeknownst to me) freshly chlorinated pool and ended up with this.
In the blink of an eye my youth was gone, my independence, my dignity, my future. Everything. I went through the usual battery of brutal tests and cystoscopies and many blank, uncaring doctors. Because way back in 2003 there was really no treatment protocol. They hadn't even heard of a 19 year old being diagnosed with the disease although now that's more common. The pain can be horrific. Although I'm a good deal better now. More on this later.*
I had a boyfriend in high school but only for a short time. Basically the group I ran with was fairly nerdy and I was fine with that. I mean, we partied and had a good time but the plan was always to sow my oats in college.
Oops.
As you might have guessed, I had to drop out of university...
When you have IC and/or vulvodynia, many things can be aggravating and no-nos. Here are mine:
Alcohol
Coffee
Tea
Acid foods
Citrus foods
Spicy foods
Soda
Tight jeans or pants
High heels
baths
swimming
Sitting on a plane or train
Standing (for too long)
Walking
Orgasms
So, yeah. Wave goodbye to Life. From now on, you'll have to watch from the sidelines while your peers distinguish themselves professionally, enter into relationships and start families. I think it's this all-encompassing loneliness, rather than the actual physical pain, that is most agonizing.
Never had a job. Never finished school. And with the exception of a brief relationship in my mid twenties**, I've never had a significant other.
To outsiders who don't know me very well, can't see the illness and judge me only by my actions, my life is an unbroken chain of wasted potential and loserdom. And as the years continue to unfold before me, it gets harder and harder not to believe it myself.
But I'm trying to be brave.
And I'm trying to take this one monster sized problem of my life never really taking off and breaking it down into more manageable bites.
So, what to do?
I've lurked on OkCupid for about 3+ years now and swore to my family and friends that I'd upload my picture and profile.
But I'm really, really scared. Of rejection. And that having sex will undo all of the years of work I've done to have a body that borderline works?
I mean, who in the hell wants to go out with a teetotaling virgin who is under educated and over the hill? Who doesn't have job and also lacks a functional bladder/vagina? I've heard that last part is pretty critical to a relationship. Although I guess Barbie did pretty well for herself...
Sorry. This is more of a feeling dump than a coherent question and I realize that. But if you have ANY advice that you think would be helpful, I'd love to hear it.
* I have worked diligently to heal by body from this miserable disease and that's pretty much what I do with my time. The one place I've been lucky in my life is that I'm financially privileged. So any time spent beyond convalescing is dedicated to finding answers and recovering my health. I've had LOADS of wacky misadventures in that regard, that have taken me half way around the world. And I'm about 50% better than I was a few years ago. Woot!
** Bill Clinton wouldn't count it....
So, now that I've outed myself, let me explain:
Ok. Here is my situation. Once upon a time I was a (fairly) healthy, (fairly) well adjusted young woman. But only for a short time. Since the age of 19, I have been sick. I guess I have basically spent my entire adult life dealing with chronic illness.
When I was 19, I was diagnosed with this.
Good times.
Then, in angry defiance of my diagnosis, I jumped into a (unbeknownst to me) freshly chlorinated pool and ended up with this.
In the blink of an eye my youth was gone, my independence, my dignity, my future. Everything. I went through the usual battery of brutal tests and cystoscopies and many blank, uncaring doctors. Because way back in 2003 there was really no treatment protocol. They hadn't even heard of a 19 year old being diagnosed with the disease although now that's more common. The pain can be horrific. Although I'm a good deal better now. More on this later.*
I had a boyfriend in high school but only for a short time. Basically the group I ran with was fairly nerdy and I was fine with that. I mean, we partied and had a good time but the plan was always to sow my oats in college.
Oops.
As you might have guessed, I had to drop out of university...
When you have IC and/or vulvodynia, many things can be aggravating and no-nos. Here are mine:
Alcohol
Coffee
Tea
Acid foods
Citrus foods
Spicy foods
Soda
Tight jeans or pants
High heels
baths
swimming
Sitting on a plane or train
Standing (for too long)
Walking
Orgasms
So, yeah. Wave goodbye to Life. From now on, you'll have to watch from the sidelines while your peers distinguish themselves professionally, enter into relationships and start families. I think it's this all-encompassing loneliness, rather than the actual physical pain, that is most agonizing.
Never had a job. Never finished school. And with the exception of a brief relationship in my mid twenties**, I've never had a significant other.
To outsiders who don't know me very well, can't see the illness and judge me only by my actions, my life is an unbroken chain of wasted potential and loserdom. And as the years continue to unfold before me, it gets harder and harder not to believe it myself.
But I'm trying to be brave.
And I'm trying to take this one monster sized problem of my life never really taking off and breaking it down into more manageable bites.
So, what to do?
I've lurked on OkCupid for about 3+ years now and swore to my family and friends that I'd upload my picture and profile.
But I'm really, really scared. Of rejection. And that having sex will undo all of the years of work I've done to have a body that borderline works?
I mean, who in the hell wants to go out with a teetotaling virgin who is under educated and over the hill? Who doesn't have job and also lacks a functional bladder/vagina? I've heard that last part is pretty critical to a relationship. Although I guess Barbie did pretty well for herself...
Sorry. This is more of a feeling dump than a coherent question and I realize that. But if you have ANY advice that you think would be helpful, I'd love to hear it.
* I have worked diligently to heal by body from this miserable disease and that's pretty much what I do with my time. The one place I've been lucky in my life is that I'm financially privileged. So any time spent beyond convalescing is dedicated to finding answers and recovering my health. I've had LOADS of wacky misadventures in that regard, that have taken me half way around the world. And I'm about 50% better than I was a few years ago. Woot!
** Bill Clinton wouldn't count it....
I'm so sorry - that sounds incredibly difficult and I'm sorry that you've had to deal with your chronic illness.
I don't have vulvodynia but I listen to Dan Savage's podcast and he touches on it pretty regularly. It sounds super enigmatic and also not a priority for many researchers because if the dick works everything's great, amirite?
Don't feel like you have to answer a stranger on the internet, but are you able to masturbate and get any fun from it? Or is (vaginal) sex something you want nothing to do with?
posted by Drosera at 5:55 AM on August 19, 2016
I don't have vulvodynia but I listen to Dan Savage's podcast and he touches on it pretty regularly. It sounds super enigmatic and also not a priority for many researchers because if the dick works everything's great, amirite?
Don't feel like you have to answer a stranger on the internet, but are you able to masturbate and get any fun from it? Or is (vaginal) sex something you want nothing to do with?
posted by Drosera at 5:55 AM on August 19, 2016
I read this thinking to myself that you sound like an intelligent, funny, well-rounded, self aware person and if I wasn't a straight married woman that I'd totally date you. This may sound trite but really it's the best advice I've got: be the person who wrote this question and you are going to be fine. Seriously, you sound like a catch. You've just got to feel that way about yourself too.
posted by teamnap at 6:05 AM on August 19, 2016
posted by teamnap at 6:05 AM on August 19, 2016
What about looking for a partner who also has an issue with sex, maybe due to a disability? I'm sure there are people like this on most dating sites, and there are also dating sites especially for people with disabilities. At the least, you can break your non-dating streak and meet potential partners who will not judge you for your issue.
posted by beyond_pink at 6:06 AM on August 19, 2016
posted by beyond_pink at 6:06 AM on August 19, 2016
Do you want sex? Or do you want to want sex? Because those are two different feelings with two different approaches. Companionship and partnership and love are not tied to sex unless you want them to be. Your worth is never measured by your sex life, work life, education or lack thereof. I send you the biggest hugs, I know how it feels.
I have vulvodynia, though it is (somewhat miraculously) very well under control now. I started treatment the year before I married my husband and the treatment (steroids and pelvic floor therapy) made everything worse. I was consumed by the pain, physical and emotional, and finding ways around it. Never mind sex: I couldn't sit, I couldn't walk, I couldn't wear the clothes I wanted. I was distracted about life and hyperfocused on the disease and it almost imploded my world, though luckily for me my husband was very supportive.
I turned the corner when I found a different doctor who believed that my emotional state was as much of a problem as my physical symptoms. In my opinion, that's what you need to look for. Feeling frustrated, overwhelmed and depressed is a consequence of the vulvodynia and the IC and maybe it's time to treat those too. Life is not passing you by, I promise!
(I share this in case it might help, I understand not wanting advice because believe me I got way way too much. Feel free to ignore it, but I accidentally stumbled into the fix for my vulvodynia and I wouldn't necessarily have thought of it otherwise so: the white cotton underwear that I was religiously wearing needed to be washed separately because the trace amounts of dye from the rest of my clothes were causing me to constantly flare up. Epsom salt soaks brought the inflammation down long enough to settle into a holding pattern of no pain, even during sex!, though I still need to be hypervigilant of triggers.)
posted by lydhre at 6:31 AM on August 19, 2016
I have vulvodynia, though it is (somewhat miraculously) very well under control now. I started treatment the year before I married my husband and the treatment (steroids and pelvic floor therapy) made everything worse. I was consumed by the pain, physical and emotional, and finding ways around it. Never mind sex: I couldn't sit, I couldn't walk, I couldn't wear the clothes I wanted. I was distracted about life and hyperfocused on the disease and it almost imploded my world, though luckily for me my husband was very supportive.
I turned the corner when I found a different doctor who believed that my emotional state was as much of a problem as my physical symptoms. In my opinion, that's what you need to look for. Feeling frustrated, overwhelmed and depressed is a consequence of the vulvodynia and the IC and maybe it's time to treat those too. Life is not passing you by, I promise!
(I share this in case it might help, I understand not wanting advice because believe me I got way way too much. Feel free to ignore it, but I accidentally stumbled into the fix for my vulvodynia and I wouldn't necessarily have thought of it otherwise so: the white cotton underwear that I was religiously wearing needed to be washed separately because the trace amounts of dye from the rest of my clothes were causing me to constantly flare up. Epsom salt soaks brought the inflammation down long enough to settle into a holding pattern of no pain, even during sex!, though I still need to be hypervigilant of triggers.)
posted by lydhre at 6:31 AM on August 19, 2016
Ok so I've only posted on here a few times so I apologize if my thread protocol is wrong but I would like to answer a few of these questions so here goes:
I WOULD like to have sex. I feel like a huge part of my identity will remain murky and undefined if I continue to abstain indefinitely. Also, I'm horny. Haha! That's the non-fancy, non-philosophical answer. Like I sometimes wonder from a basic health, Maslow's Hierarchy sanity standpoint, how healthy can this degree of non contact be? Not very, I imagine. Not very many 33 year old women know what it's like to be a 13 year old boy. But I do- wheee!!!
Which brings me to Drosera's question- the answer is that it's a bit hit or miss. Sometimes I can masturbate and I can feel afterwards that some pain and tension in my pelvic area has lessened. Sometimes it's more of a neutral response. And sometimes- quiet often- I end up worse off than before. It's curious though because for me, vaginal stimulation can end up giving me a wonky *bladder*. I don't really get that math but that's what happens. An orgasm can result in a lot of spasticity and retention. I can also get severe, antibiotic resistant UTIs this way. Same as if I had a bath or sat in a pair of tight jeans.
My gyno (who is a pelvic pain expert) says she doesn't understand how my bladder is being impacted in that way. She's also told me that there is a vaginal surgery for vaginal pain that has like an 85% success rate but as I said, my issues with sex center more on how my bladder is impacted. What's going on vaginally is, I believe, just a symptom that stems from the messed up bladder. So the surgery might be pointless unless we can better understand the bladder/vag connection...
Sorry if this was TMI for some. Really appreciate your kind words...
posted by ChickenBear at 7:16 AM on August 19, 2016
I WOULD like to have sex. I feel like a huge part of my identity will remain murky and undefined if I continue to abstain indefinitely. Also, I'm horny. Haha! That's the non-fancy, non-philosophical answer. Like I sometimes wonder from a basic health, Maslow's Hierarchy sanity standpoint, how healthy can this degree of non contact be? Not very, I imagine. Not very many 33 year old women know what it's like to be a 13 year old boy. But I do- wheee!!!
Which brings me to Drosera's question- the answer is that it's a bit hit or miss. Sometimes I can masturbate and I can feel afterwards that some pain and tension in my pelvic area has lessened. Sometimes it's more of a neutral response. And sometimes- quiet often- I end up worse off than before. It's curious though because for me, vaginal stimulation can end up giving me a wonky *bladder*. I don't really get that math but that's what happens. An orgasm can result in a lot of spasticity and retention. I can also get severe, antibiotic resistant UTIs this way. Same as if I had a bath or sat in a pair of tight jeans.
My gyno (who is a pelvic pain expert) says she doesn't understand how my bladder is being impacted in that way. She's also told me that there is a vaginal surgery for vaginal pain that has like an 85% success rate but as I said, my issues with sex center more on how my bladder is impacted. What's going on vaginally is, I believe, just a symptom that stems from the messed up bladder. So the surgery might be pointless unless we can better understand the bladder/vag connection...
Sorry if this was TMI for some. Really appreciate your kind words...
posted by ChickenBear at 7:16 AM on August 19, 2016
Sorry - has endometriosis been excluded? (I know that's not what you're asking about, and very sorry if it's been considered, but if anxiety about maintaining health achievements is part of it, maybe that part of the puzzle would go a bit towards helping you feel more secure about some of your other anxieties.) (link problems... http://endopaedia.info/subtype10.html )
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:32 AM on August 19, 2016
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:32 AM on August 19, 2016
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I only have vulvodynia and that's bad enough. One of my doctors described IC as having terrorists in your bladder! On the encouraging side, having vulvodynia and not being able to have intercourse or orgasms didn't slow me down while dating at all. I've gotten married, had one other serious relationship and a few hook ups and all those guys wanted to sleep with me again after the first time. I usually brought it up once we were on the bed together, explaining that I have pain around the entrance to the vagina but it's nothing contagious just some hyperactive nerves. Everyone was willing to go along with my limits and you can totally have a good time without penetration. So there are definitely good guys out there who won't be phased by this; the strategy of finding a shy guy who didn't date much and asking him out worked for me!
You've probably tried everything but do you wipe down with a baby wipe before doing anything sexual? That was the trick for a friend of mine to stop getting UTIs every time.
I've had vestibulectomy/vaginal advancement surgery. It helped me a lot but the recovery is kind of rough, I still had to do a lot of PT afterwards and I'm not fully cured three years later so I agree that, if possible, it would be good to figure out the link between bladder and vulvodynia before doing the surgery.
The three best books I have are Ending Female Pain, Heal Pelvic Pain and A Headache in the Pelvis. However, I can't remember how much they talk about IC. I'm traveling right now but let me know if you want me to check my copies next week when I'm home. Feel free to MeMail me if you want more details about anything I've mentioned. I've written a bunch of other comments here about vulvodynia you can go look for too.
*hugs* I really hope you figure this out soon and, like everyone else said, you sound great and smart and funny and some guy is going to be so lucky to find you.
posted by carolr at 8:06 AM on August 19, 2016
You've probably tried everything but do you wipe down with a baby wipe before doing anything sexual? That was the trick for a friend of mine to stop getting UTIs every time.
I've had vestibulectomy/vaginal advancement surgery. It helped me a lot but the recovery is kind of rough, I still had to do a lot of PT afterwards and I'm not fully cured three years later so I agree that, if possible, it would be good to figure out the link between bladder and vulvodynia before doing the surgery.
The three best books I have are Ending Female Pain, Heal Pelvic Pain and A Headache in the Pelvis. However, I can't remember how much they talk about IC. I'm traveling right now but let me know if you want me to check my copies next week when I'm home. Feel free to MeMail me if you want more details about anything I've mentioned. I've written a bunch of other comments here about vulvodynia you can go look for too.
*hugs* I really hope you figure this out soon and, like everyone else said, you sound great and smart and funny and some guy is going to be so lucky to find you.
posted by carolr at 8:06 AM on August 19, 2016
I mean, who in the hell wants to go out with a teetotaling virgin who is under educated and over the hill? Who doesn't have job and also lacks a functional bladder/vagina?
I can't pretend to speak to the physical-disability part of your question. But part of the problem here may be that, lacking experience in relationships, you are thinking of the Hollywood image of them--two beautiful perfect young people having hot athletic sex. But if you look around you in the world, you will see so, so many loving couples made up of people that Hollywood would deem not just unfuckable, but straight-up unlovable. The only way to get over this, viscerally, is to date, to see how many "non-perfect folks" there actually are out there (especially past a certain age: almost all of them), to discover how many men find you attractive enough to consider you baseline dateable.
Unfortunately, rejection will be part of the package, especially with online dating. Not because of your physical problems/inexperience, necessarily, but because that's just the way online dating works. It's up to you to decide whether you think that risk is worth it. I can't tell from your post whether you're really craving emotional intimacy with a partner and sex, or whether you just think it's part of the human experience you ought to try. Either position is reasonable. But, if the latter, note that you don't have to do it any longer than you want to. If you find dating unfulfilling or not worth it, you don't have to keep doing it.
posted by praemunire at 8:37 AM on August 19, 2016
I can't pretend to speak to the physical-disability part of your question. But part of the problem here may be that, lacking experience in relationships, you are thinking of the Hollywood image of them--two beautiful perfect young people having hot athletic sex. But if you look around you in the world, you will see so, so many loving couples made up of people that Hollywood would deem not just unfuckable, but straight-up unlovable. The only way to get over this, viscerally, is to date, to see how many "non-perfect folks" there actually are out there (especially past a certain age: almost all of them), to discover how many men find you attractive enough to consider you baseline dateable.
Unfortunately, rejection will be part of the package, especially with online dating. Not because of your physical problems/inexperience, necessarily, but because that's just the way online dating works. It's up to you to decide whether you think that risk is worth it. I can't tell from your post whether you're really craving emotional intimacy with a partner and sex, or whether you just think it's part of the human experience you ought to try. Either position is reasonable. But, if the latter, note that you don't have to do it any longer than you want to. If you find dating unfulfilling or not worth it, you don't have to keep doing it.
posted by praemunire at 8:37 AM on August 19, 2016
ETA based on your response - though it sounds strange, I think it will be less awkward if you are up front about your issue. I'd put something direct in at least one of your profiles and see how it works for you. For example, sneak in something like "I have a medical issue that makes sex difficult so I've been staying off the market, but I realized that it's important to me and I want that part of my life back. I am looking for a partner who is patient and willing to experiment and have open communication."
posted by beyond_pink at 10:31 AM on August 19, 2016
posted by beyond_pink at 10:31 AM on August 19, 2016
You may want to look at this from a different angle and think about what kind of partner you want. Some the comments have already mentioned this, but I think you should make a list of ideal emotional/personality traits that are essential to you in a partner. What do you need? Make a list of the kinds of things you want to do with a partner--from someone who will watch scary movies with you (or never make you go to one) all the way to what kind of physical intimacy is on or off the table. Saving the best list for last: what is awesome about you! Just reading your question makes me want to know more about your different adventures and the stuff you have done that others who had a "normal" time haven't.
posted by mrcrow at 11:41 AM on August 19, 2016
posted by mrcrow at 11:41 AM on August 19, 2016
Hi, I'm someone with Crohn's disease who is also a gay man. That combo puzzled me for years because a lot of gay male sexual stereotypes involve anal penetration, and that doesn't work well with Crohn's (at least not in a predictable way). So I was a late bloomer, let's say.
But then I met a couple very awesome buddies who helped me come to terms with setting my own sexual boundaries--e.g. I don't have to use the part of my body that causes me pain, even if it seems like that's the point. And jumping 15 years down the road, I've relaxed enough that I can talk to partners and doctors about the issues, so butt stuff is no longer off the table. It's not something I can do every day, or spontaneously, but it's nice that it can happen.
One of these buddies happened to be a physician who specializes in sexual health and counseling. Which I admit is kind of like winning the lottery, but he gave me a lot of the language I lacked about how to talk about my concerns and desires--not just to doctors, but to prospective partners. Counseling can be such a huge help in allaying fears by becoming prepared with strategies. Feeling awkward with a professional and then working with that professional to feel less awkward is excellent preparation for feeling less awkward. And I'm talking specifically about professionals on the psychological end of the spectrum, not specifically physiological. You may well have seen someone like this before, but I'm surprised at how many people with Crohn's have not so it seems worth mentioning. Highly recommended.
I've lurked on OkCupid for about 3+ years now and swore to my family and friends that I'd upload my picture and profile.
Well hey that sounds like a decent place to start if you're willing (not just for your friends' sake). Dip your toe in the waters of online dating. There's a learning curve to anything, and if you think you'll feel rejected by missed connections online, then practice at the process may help you dull those feelings. It's likely less weird feeling than your anticipation of it is. And plus there's the frisson of engagement that for many people makes up for the rejection-ish angles of the experience.
Lastly, I met my partner when he was 47. He'd not had a fulfilling sexual encounter at all in those 47 years. His curiosity and eagerness was amazing to experience, and I still remember every detail of those first few months. Just to remind you that coming to the table with fear and excitement can be much, much sexier than some backlog of experience or what have you.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 11:44 AM on August 19, 2016
But then I met a couple very awesome buddies who helped me come to terms with setting my own sexual boundaries--e.g. I don't have to use the part of my body that causes me pain, even if it seems like that's the point. And jumping 15 years down the road, I've relaxed enough that I can talk to partners and doctors about the issues, so butt stuff is no longer off the table. It's not something I can do every day, or spontaneously, but it's nice that it can happen.
One of these buddies happened to be a physician who specializes in sexual health and counseling. Which I admit is kind of like winning the lottery, but he gave me a lot of the language I lacked about how to talk about my concerns and desires--not just to doctors, but to prospective partners. Counseling can be such a huge help in allaying fears by becoming prepared with strategies. Feeling awkward with a professional and then working with that professional to feel less awkward is excellent preparation for feeling less awkward. And I'm talking specifically about professionals on the psychological end of the spectrum, not specifically physiological. You may well have seen someone like this before, but I'm surprised at how many people with Crohn's have not so it seems worth mentioning. Highly recommended.
I've lurked on OkCupid for about 3+ years now and swore to my family and friends that I'd upload my picture and profile.
Well hey that sounds like a decent place to start if you're willing (not just for your friends' sake). Dip your toe in the waters of online dating. There's a learning curve to anything, and if you think you'll feel rejected by missed connections online, then practice at the process may help you dull those feelings. It's likely less weird feeling than your anticipation of it is. And plus there's the frisson of engagement that for many people makes up for the rejection-ish angles of the experience.
Lastly, I met my partner when he was 47. He'd not had a fulfilling sexual encounter at all in those 47 years. His curiosity and eagerness was amazing to experience, and I still remember every detail of those first few months. Just to remind you that coming to the table with fear and excitement can be much, much sexier than some backlog of experience or what have you.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 11:44 AM on August 19, 2016
Oh man... I wish I could give you a hug - that sounds so painful, disappointing, and frustrating. I don't have good advice, but I just got back from an Adyashanti retreat, and he talked about his own 11 years of chronic bladder pain. I find him wise and extremely comforting - maybe you will too? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux9BrmvKnpM
posted by namesarehard at 1:54 PM on August 19, 2016
posted by namesarehard at 1:54 PM on August 19, 2016
I just want to chime in to say I laughed out loud at your writing: you are funny and self-aware, and you will find someone who appreciates those amazing qualities. You sound like a heck of a lot of fun to hang out with-- that will come across. And as you become more comfortable with letting your true self show with partners, what you see as flaws or deal-breakers will be nothing more than quirks to the right person-- something to work around, but in the end, no big deal.
posted by enzymatic at 2:13 PM on August 19, 2016
posted by enzymatic at 2:13 PM on August 19, 2016
Like lots of people I just want to give you a hug, this can't have been an easy road in life. The book "It's not you" by Sara Eckel talks a lot about late bloomers and people who want a partner but just never met the right person yet, and goes through all the reasons which well-meaning people explain their singleness "You're too needy" "you're too independent" and why those are all bunk, all that matters is meeting someone who's a great match. My favourite moment in the book is where she confesses at age 39 that she has very little relationship experience, and most of her first dates never got any further. She is terrified her beau will run for the hills but he says "All those other guys were idiots" and that is exactly how a healthy partner will feel about you, like they are happy to be with you and can see all kinds of awesome in you. Sara Eckel's Facebook page links to an online community, just starting so not lots of posts yet, but they might give a flavour of her work without buying the book.
I dated a tiny amount in college but never had a long-term relationship until aged 33, I thought we'd be like penguins and mate for life and it didn't work out that way, but we had a ten year relationship I will always be grateful for. There are all kind of relationships that might not be traditional or between people like those on TV, but if they work for the two people involved that's all that matters. The hardest thing for me was accepting love at a time when I didn't feel especially lovable myself, a bit like the Groucho Marx thing "I refuse to join any club which would have me as a member". Showing compassion for yourself is a good start towards allowing love in from others.
I won't deny romance also means the possibility for rejection and emotional pain but better that than regret and looking back on life and wondering "what if?". Good luck!
posted by AuroraSky at 2:17 PM on August 19, 2016
I dated a tiny amount in college but never had a long-term relationship until aged 33, I thought we'd be like penguins and mate for life and it didn't work out that way, but we had a ten year relationship I will always be grateful for. There are all kind of relationships that might not be traditional or between people like those on TV, but if they work for the two people involved that's all that matters. The hardest thing for me was accepting love at a time when I didn't feel especially lovable myself, a bit like the Groucho Marx thing "I refuse to join any club which would have me as a member". Showing compassion for yourself is a good start towards allowing love in from others.
I won't deny romance also means the possibility for rejection and emotional pain but better that than regret and looking back on life and wondering "what if?". Good luck!
posted by AuroraSky at 2:17 PM on August 19, 2016
I got married at 19 to the second guy I had sex with. When I got divorced in my late thirties-early forties, I was shocked by how many men were downright eager to get me some experience. I turned down lots of offers and mostly pursued online relationships during my divorce. I was extremely ill and quite plump at the time. You do not need to look like supermodel or have a perfect life.
I have also seen questions on MetaFilter and chatted with people online who were into no strings attached make out sessions that were not intended to lead to penetrative sex. Just about anything you want, someone else out there will be interested. You just need to find them and learn to communicate it.
I also have health problems that have been my priority for 15 years. Most of my life is online. I do freelance work online. I run a bunch of blogs. I am active on some forums and on social media. I still get hit on by people at times. If I decide I am well enough for sex, I am sure I can find it, never mind how old and ugly I feel at times.
I feel I have a full life that is steadily getting better. I feel that I made a conscious decision to be celibate for health reasons and I am free to change my mind when I feel that makes sense.
My life is different from how most people live. There are ways in which I am fairly isolated and there are things that frustrate me. I am not easy to get next to and I am okay with that. The people who get close to me are great people. I view my situation as a built in means to filter out all the lousy stuff.
Best.
posted by Michele in California at 3:21 PM on August 19, 2016
I have also seen questions on MetaFilter and chatted with people online who were into no strings attached make out sessions that were not intended to lead to penetrative sex. Just about anything you want, someone else out there will be interested. You just need to find them and learn to communicate it.
I also have health problems that have been my priority for 15 years. Most of my life is online. I do freelance work online. I run a bunch of blogs. I am active on some forums and on social media. I still get hit on by people at times. If I decide I am well enough for sex, I am sure I can find it, never mind how old and ugly I feel at times.
I feel I have a full life that is steadily getting better. I feel that I made a conscious decision to be celibate for health reasons and I am free to change my mind when I feel that makes sense.
My life is different from how most people live. There are ways in which I am fairly isolated and there are things that frustrate me. I am not easy to get next to and I am okay with that. The people who get close to me are great people. I view my situation as a built in means to filter out all the lousy stuff.
Best.
posted by Michele in California at 3:21 PM on August 19, 2016
I say all this as somebody who first got sick in my early twenties and stayed sick. I've had a gazillion weird and agonizing diseases, some of them have involving a lot of genital pain, cystoscopies and other horrors. (I had a cystoscopy once with no anesthetic, and I have a dong. So, basically a white-hot screwdriver up my urethra. Not fun!) Lots of disgusting bowel stuff too, including a bout of colon cancer. So some of this answer may sound harsh, but I'm coming at this as somebody who really knows the frustrations of chronic, agonizing illnesses of the naughty bits, and I want to help.
It sounds to me like you've spent a long time mourning what you thought life was going to be, and not putting nearly as much energy into trying to make the most of what you do have. You're ashamed of things that aren't your fault, things that truly aren't shameful. To be blunt, even if your downstairs doesn't work so good, you still could have been having lots of sexy fun-times all these years. There are lots (LOTS!) of people who would be glad to date you and do whatever sex stuff you felt comfortable doing, even if that involved never taking your pants off. People with colostomy bags have hot sex. Impotent people have hot sex. Paraplegics have hot sex. You've let your poor genitals be nothing but a source of pain and embarrassment for you, and that's no way to carry on.
I know firsthand that chronic illness can be a huge drain on every aspect of your life. But you have to do everything you can to not let it define you. I have every reason to loathe my stupid shit-pile of a body, but I still spent years getting dolled up and going out to drag clubs with my girlfriend and having kinky adventures. I can hardly do anything, but I've had jobs. This isn't me boasting; this is stuff I did because the alternative was to just be sad and lonely and shut away. It sounds like you've taken the second path, but it's never too late to get on the good foot.
I'm so sorry you've had to endure so much pain. But there are definitely people who would want you, just as you are. There are careers you could make happen. It will all be more challenging for you than it is for most people, and that's unfair and it sucks. But if you really want these things, you've gotta stop hating your genitals and start living. Become pals with your genitals!
Also, 33? Child!
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:38 PM on August 19, 2016
It sounds to me like you've spent a long time mourning what you thought life was going to be, and not putting nearly as much energy into trying to make the most of what you do have. You're ashamed of things that aren't your fault, things that truly aren't shameful. To be blunt, even if your downstairs doesn't work so good, you still could have been having lots of sexy fun-times all these years. There are lots (LOTS!) of people who would be glad to date you and do whatever sex stuff you felt comfortable doing, even if that involved never taking your pants off. People with colostomy bags have hot sex. Impotent people have hot sex. Paraplegics have hot sex. You've let your poor genitals be nothing but a source of pain and embarrassment for you, and that's no way to carry on.
I know firsthand that chronic illness can be a huge drain on every aspect of your life. But you have to do everything you can to not let it define you. I have every reason to loathe my stupid shit-pile of a body, but I still spent years getting dolled up and going out to drag clubs with my girlfriend and having kinky adventures. I can hardly do anything, but I've had jobs. This isn't me boasting; this is stuff I did because the alternative was to just be sad and lonely and shut away. It sounds like you've taken the second path, but it's never too late to get on the good foot.
I'm so sorry you've had to endure so much pain. But there are definitely people who would want you, just as you are. There are careers you could make happen. It will all be more challenging for you than it is for most people, and that's unfair and it sucks. But if you really want these things, you've gotta stop hating your genitals and start living. Become pals with your genitals!
Also, 33? Child!
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:38 PM on August 19, 2016
One of the Buzzfeed staff writers has had a similar experience to you, including years of seeking treatment and avoiding dating and she wrote a very moving piece about it last year: What It's Like to Date When You Can't Have Sex. She talks specifically about what it's like using dating apps and sites while having this condition.
You should date. I can't begin to imagine what you've been through but I understand a corner of it. I have a lot of hang-ups around sex, though it's more psychological/trauma-related, than physical for me and these have definitely intruded on my dating life and also, my sense of worthiness, as a romantic partner. I have come to realize and embrace however that everyone is damaged in some way.
posted by armadillo1224 at 9:43 PM on August 19, 2016
You should date. I can't begin to imagine what you've been through but I understand a corner of it. I have a lot of hang-ups around sex, though it's more psychological/trauma-related, than physical for me and these have definitely intruded on my dating life and also, my sense of worthiness, as a romantic partner. I have come to realize and embrace however that everyone is damaged in some way.
posted by armadillo1224 at 9:43 PM on August 19, 2016
<Thanks so much everyone- amazing, heartening advice!
posted by ChickenBear at 3:24 AM on August 20, 2016
posted by ChickenBear at 3:24 AM on August 20, 2016
I suggest you not take on any baggage over not getting a life sooner. You prioritized getting better. Now you are better. Now getting a life is making your radar because you are better and that makes more sense. You are well enough to start adding things in that you just couldn't deal with sooner.
Congratulations on succeeding in getting well enough that you can now focus on other things sometimes. Best of luck in your new adventures.
posted by Michele in California at 10:08 AM on August 20, 2016
Congratulations on succeeding in getting well enough that you can now focus on other things sometimes. Best of luck in your new adventures.
posted by Michele in California at 10:08 AM on August 20, 2016
I do apologize if I came across as too judge-y. I give myself pep talks and motivational butt-kicking talks all the time, and perhaps I overdid it when I tried to do the same for you. My point definitely wasn't that you should feel bad about how you've done things so far! More that you should focus on trying to have fun now. I think you're worrying too much about what people on OK Cupid will think about your downstairs business or your educational history or these other things. You're not a collection of defects. Try to go into this thinking of yourself as somebody with plenty to offer! Any person who says, "Well, I don't want her because she didn't go to some fancy-ass school, or because she's got an ouchy down-there," well, that's a person who doesn't deserve you!
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:03 PM on August 20, 2016
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:03 PM on August 20, 2016
who in the hell wants to go out with a teetotaling virgin who is under educated and over the hill? Who doesn't have job and also lacks a functional bladder/vagina? I've heard that last part is pretty critical to a relationship.
Let's address this negative self-talk her point by point, shall we?
who in the hell: lots of people. seriously. you just have to try a bit harder to find them :)
teetotaling: this is a feature, not a bug! there are plenty of other people who don't drink or don't care if you don't
virgin: again, this is a feature, not a bug.
under-educated: that's a matter of opinion and perspective, surely. you are obviously educated enough to produce a very well-written question about your situation, and I'm sure you have other skills as well.
over the hill: you aren't. nope. sorry. if you were 80 I might give you a pass on that one. but you're 33. eject that crappy social conditioning that a woman is used up by 30 from your mind immediately.
doesn't have a job: yet.
functional vagina: plenty of people do not require or even care for penetrative sex, or even that you are capable of orgasm (but you are!). I know several anorgasmic women who nonetheless have partners. I know some people who have crazy tantric sex that doesn't involve much more than touching one another gently, no orgasms involved.
I've heard that last part is pretty critical to a relationship: don't believe everything you hear ;)
TMI warning below! Fellow sufferer commiserating ~~~~
Honey, I feel you. That list of things to avoid made me tear up, it was so familiar. I had IC and vulvodynia and urethritis and recurrent UTIs and BV and yeast infections and ovarian cysts for years, so bad I was hospitalized for days, and it was hellish to the point where I sincerely wished for death. I've been in remission for over a year now (knock on wood!), and my heart really goes out to you. It turned out I had little cysts (not PCOS) that were rupturing and irritating everything from my intestines to my bladder to my uterus, and it was throwing off my pH, so everything was going wrong until the cysts stopped happening. An herbalist recommended mallow root tea, which helped more than I can say. Sounds weird, I know, but I would have tried anything at that point including ritual magic, so YMMV. PM me if you want the full treatment regimen I did. It was not fun, but did eventually work.
~~~end TMI~~~~~
Yes, it's hard to date when you have a different way you need or want to engage in sex. But sex is more than just penises in vaginas. And you are more than the way you engage in sex. You are a strong, caring, passionate person, and *that* is what will draw the right people to you. Give yourself permission to have boundaries, to ask for what you need, and not think of this as a death-knell over your ability to have a romantic partnership.
You are not broken. You do not need fixing to be worthy of love.
posted by ananci at 9:07 PM on August 20, 2016
Let's address this negative self-talk her point by point, shall we?
who in the hell: lots of people. seriously. you just have to try a bit harder to find them :)
teetotaling: this is a feature, not a bug! there are plenty of other people who don't drink or don't care if you don't
virgin: again, this is a feature, not a bug.
under-educated: that's a matter of opinion and perspective, surely. you are obviously educated enough to produce a very well-written question about your situation, and I'm sure you have other skills as well.
over the hill: you aren't. nope. sorry. if you were 80 I might give you a pass on that one. but you're 33. eject that crappy social conditioning that a woman is used up by 30 from your mind immediately.
doesn't have a job: yet.
functional vagina: plenty of people do not require or even care for penetrative sex, or even that you are capable of orgasm (but you are!). I know several anorgasmic women who nonetheless have partners. I know some people who have crazy tantric sex that doesn't involve much more than touching one another gently, no orgasms involved.
I've heard that last part is pretty critical to a relationship: don't believe everything you hear ;)
TMI warning below! Fellow sufferer commiserating ~~~~
Honey, I feel you. That list of things to avoid made me tear up, it was so familiar. I had IC and vulvodynia and urethritis and recurrent UTIs and BV and yeast infections and ovarian cysts for years, so bad I was hospitalized for days, and it was hellish to the point where I sincerely wished for death. I've been in remission for over a year now (knock on wood!), and my heart really goes out to you. It turned out I had little cysts (not PCOS) that were rupturing and irritating everything from my intestines to my bladder to my uterus, and it was throwing off my pH, so everything was going wrong until the cysts stopped happening. An herbalist recommended mallow root tea, which helped more than I can say. Sounds weird, I know, but I would have tried anything at that point including ritual magic, so YMMV. PM me if you want the full treatment regimen I did. It was not fun, but did eventually work.
~~~end TMI~~~~~
Yes, it's hard to date when you have a different way you need or want to engage in sex. But sex is more than just penises in vaginas. And you are more than the way you engage in sex. You are a strong, caring, passionate person, and *that* is what will draw the right people to you. Give yourself permission to have boundaries, to ask for what you need, and not think of this as a death-knell over your ability to have a romantic partnership.
You are not broken. You do not need fixing to be worthy of love.
posted by ananci at 9:07 PM on August 20, 2016
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When I was a Life Coach, one thing I'd recommend to my clients who were in turmoil or surrounded by uncertainty was to do volunteer work.
Get out of your head.
Get into your heart.
It sounds like you have a wonderful, kind, caring, smart, funny heart, and I'd recommend that you show others that side of you. Even if you're limited to physical activities, even if your schedule's wonky and you need to hibernate more than others to make sure your health is taken care of, there are organizations out there who want you, who need you, and who will cherish your talents, your energy, your compassion and your heart.
As you begin to focus on others, I get the feeling that your healing will accelerate.
As you begin to focus on friendship, others will come into your orbit.
As you begin to focus on the big picture that we're all in this together, you'll meet someone that will become a part of your small picture.
Please take really good care of yourself.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 5:54 AM on August 19, 2016