Poker tips for a novice player?
December 22, 2005 8:50 AM Subscribe
I've begun playing some casual Texas Hold'Em with friends (some of whom are far less casual). I don't really know what I'm doing. Thus far I am 15% ahead (of my cumulative buyin), but that's only be because I fold early and often. I mostly get into trouble when I play weak hands or try to bluff, so I don't tend to do either. I'd like some additional pointers.
In particular, what rules of thumbs exist for casual novices such as myself? What is considered the minimum hand to play? (And surely this changes if you're one of the blinds -- what does it change to? Does it change with the number of players at the table?) Is it common to not play for five or ten hands in a row? There's one guy in our group that is loud and brash and aggressive with his bids. He often wins despite having crap hands. Once he has a lead, he presses hard and people fold. How can I keep from being bullied by him? Where do I want to sit in relation to him? Do I want him betting before me or after me? (I think I want him before me, but I'm not sure.) What about the quiet guy who never bluffs? How should my betting strategies differ at the start of the night as opposed to the end of the night when it's just down to two or three of us?
I realize there are books and web sites on this, and I've even looked at the old AskMe threads. I'm basically just looking for some solid rules of thumb that a novice like me can carry around in his head so that he has a decent chance of success. (My googling yielded "novices shouldn't bluff" and "very few hands are playable", which have stood me in good stead for our first few games, but I'm ready for a few other pointers.)
In particular, what rules of thumbs exist for casual novices such as myself? What is considered the minimum hand to play? (And surely this changes if you're one of the blinds -- what does it change to? Does it change with the number of players at the table?) Is it common to not play for five or ten hands in a row? There's one guy in our group that is loud and brash and aggressive with his bids. He often wins despite having crap hands. Once he has a lead, he presses hard and people fold. How can I keep from being bullied by him? Where do I want to sit in relation to him? Do I want him betting before me or after me? (I think I want him before me, but I'm not sure.) What about the quiet guy who never bluffs? How should my betting strategies differ at the start of the night as opposed to the end of the night when it's just down to two or three of us?
I realize there are books and web sites on this, and I've even looked at the old AskMe threads. I'm basically just looking for some solid rules of thumb that a novice like me can carry around in his head so that he has a decent chance of success. (My googling yielded "novices shouldn't bluff" and "very few hands are playable", which have stood me in good stead for our first few games, but I'm ready for a few other pointers.)
Response by poster: at any time you should be able to recall the exact bets of everyone in the game
For the current hand, or for the entire game?
posted by jdroth at 9:00 AM on December 22, 2005
For the current hand, or for the entire game?
posted by jdroth at 9:00 AM on December 22, 2005
This might be what you are looking for. I trust you read the general advice I received when I asked a related question.
Also I would recommend the twoplustwo forums ,they should throw up some good threads.
posted by kenaman at 9:01 AM on December 22, 2005
Also I would recommend the twoplustwo forums ,they should throw up some good threads.
posted by kenaman at 9:01 AM on December 22, 2005
Is this no-limit tournament-style play, or a limit cash game? Strategy between the two can be wildly different. I am a reasonably competent (but by no means great) no-limit player, but I am worthless in a limit game (I just don't have a good feel for it). As a general rule, though, don't bluff. If you feel that a hand isn't worth playing, don't play it. Fold. This may mean you fold an entire orbit's worth of hands, and then only see the flop when you're big blind again. That's okay. If the other players are any good at all, they'll notice this. When you do play a hand, they'll assume you've got a monster. This will allow you to occasionally steal blinds with a marginal starting hand (Kxo, for example). When you do make a hand, though, play aggressively. Bet, bet, and bet some more; you (usually) want to bet out marginal hands before they have a chance to see more cards (and get lucky). Especially if you've got that one brash guy at the table who will call anything. He may bully a lot of people out of hands, but when he loses, he'll lose big, and you'll benefit.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:13 AM on December 22, 2005
posted by uncleozzy at 9:13 AM on December 22, 2005
Response by poster: Is this no-limit tournament-style play, or a limit cash game?
I don't even know the difference!
There are actually two different games, depending on whose house we're at. If we're at the brash, aggressive guy's house, we buy in for five bucks. If we lose, we can buy in again for five bucks. A person can keep buying in for five bucks until a certain time limit. I think this is dumb as it rewards the risk takers who lose continuously until they happen to get a good hand that they transform into a hell of a lot of money. (I see it as just buying everyone else's chips.)
The game I like better we buy in for $25, but that's it. You don't get to buy in again. People don't play as stupid as in the other game.
Does that clarify things?
You (usually) want to bet out marginal hands before they have a chance to see more cards (and get lucky)
Ooh. See, this is exactly what I'm looking for. This makes sense. I got beat by a full-house on a hand where I had a flush after the flop. The guy with the full-house told me he would have folded if I'd bet a little stronger.
How about the inverse: I once got a straight flush, but couldn't get anyone to bet. Are there ways to sucker people in when you know you're going to win?
posted by jdroth at 9:22 AM on December 22, 2005
I don't even know the difference!
There are actually two different games, depending on whose house we're at. If we're at the brash, aggressive guy's house, we buy in for five bucks. If we lose, we can buy in again for five bucks. A person can keep buying in for five bucks until a certain time limit. I think this is dumb as it rewards the risk takers who lose continuously until they happen to get a good hand that they transform into a hell of a lot of money. (I see it as just buying everyone else's chips.)
The game I like better we buy in for $25, but that's it. You don't get to buy in again. People don't play as stupid as in the other game.
Does that clarify things?
You (usually) want to bet out marginal hands before they have a chance to see more cards (and get lucky)
Ooh. See, this is exactly what I'm looking for. This makes sense. I got beat by a full-house on a hand where I had a flush after the flop. The guy with the full-house told me he would have folded if I'd bet a little stronger.
How about the inverse: I once got a straight flush, but couldn't get anyone to bet. Are there ways to sucker people in when you know you're going to win?
posted by jdroth at 9:22 AM on December 22, 2005
"Are there ways to sucker people in when you know you're going to win?"
Slow play when you have a monster hand like a straight flush. This is a case where you don't want to bet big and push out people with marginal hands. You want them to think they have the best hand and bet big or at least to bluff at the pot because they don't think you have anything.
You still haven't answered whether you are playing no-limit or limit, but I suspect you're playing no-limit. (if you can push all of your chips in at any time, that's no-limit, otherwise you're playing limit).
Here's a good site to help you learn the game. Good luck!
posted by fletchmuy at 9:32 AM on December 22, 2005
Slow play when you have a monster hand like a straight flush. This is a case where you don't want to bet big and push out people with marginal hands. You want them to think they have the best hand and bet big or at least to bluff at the pot because they don't think you have anything.
You still haven't answered whether you are playing no-limit or limit, but I suspect you're playing no-limit. (if you can push all of your chips in at any time, that's no-limit, otherwise you're playing limit).
Here's a good site to help you learn the game. Good luck!
posted by fletchmuy at 9:32 AM on December 22, 2005
Are there ways to sucker people in when you know you're going to win?
Yup. You play it slow, don't bet as soon as you get the hand. You want them to believe that you are bluffing them out, and that you've got shit to show for it. Play it nervous, hesitate before calling their bets, but once they make that large bet on the river, make sure to raise heavy.
It really helps to change up your playstyle at the table, also. Get a reputation for being rash, get caught bluffing once or twice. Then once people recognize you for that, switch playstyle. Be very conservative with your cards, and only play guaranteed wins. Flip flop between the two, and not only will you make it hard for them to read you, but they'll also be more likely to call bets when you want them to, and fold when you're trying to bluff them out.
As far as the brash guy goes, play his opposite. Play conservatively, and don't try to bet him out. Over time he'll win a few little pots from bravado, but lose out on the big ones that count (when he doesn't really have it).
Hope that helps a little.
posted by still at 9:39 AM on December 22, 2005
Yup. You play it slow, don't bet as soon as you get the hand. You want them to believe that you are bluffing them out, and that you've got shit to show for it. Play it nervous, hesitate before calling their bets, but once they make that large bet on the river, make sure to raise heavy.
It really helps to change up your playstyle at the table, also. Get a reputation for being rash, get caught bluffing once or twice. Then once people recognize you for that, switch playstyle. Be very conservative with your cards, and only play guaranteed wins. Flip flop between the two, and not only will you make it hard for them to read you, but they'll also be more likely to call bets when you want them to, and fold when you're trying to bluff them out.
As far as the brash guy goes, play his opposite. Play conservatively, and don't try to bet him out. Over time he'll win a few little pots from bravado, but lose out on the big ones that count (when he doesn't really have it).
Hope that helps a little.
posted by still at 9:39 AM on December 22, 2005
One of your best bets is to read, read, and read some more. There are an infinite number of poker books out there and, although you will get conflicting information from the majority of the books, they train you in how to think, which is much more important than knowing what to think. There is no correct way to play poker, as each person's skill sets are so varying (such as their psychological, quantitative, or analytical abilities) that becoming a good poker player is actually better described as the process of finding out the way to make use of your particular skill set than learning a "by-the-book" style of play. Some books I recommend include:
A few other tips:
- Learn to play position. There are almost no circumstances in which you should play AJ "under-the-gun", while on the button it is often appropriate to play 54s (the s denotes that they are suited).
- Hand-in-hand with learning to play position, you need to avoid situations in which you are dominated.
- Avoid playing trap hands in the wrong situations.
- Learn the right situations to play those same hands.
- In cash games, there are almost no times in which it is appropriate to slow-play (save the times such as the one which you mentioned where you had an unbeatable hand). So don't do it. It's better to win a small pot than to lose a big one, correct?
posted by charmston at 9:39 AM on December 22, 2005
A few other tips:
- Learn to play position. There are almost no circumstances in which you should play AJ "under-the-gun", while on the button it is often appropriate to play 54s (the s denotes that they are suited).
- Hand-in-hand with learning to play position, you need to avoid situations in which you are dominated.
- Avoid playing trap hands in the wrong situations.
- Learn the right situations to play those same hands.
- In cash games, there are almost no times in which it is appropriate to slow-play (save the times such as the one which you mentioned where you had an unbeatable hand). So don't do it. It's better to win a small pot than to lose a big one, correct?
posted by charmston at 9:39 AM on December 22, 2005
Does that clarify things?
Sort of. This sounds like tournament-style play; the first one is $5 with rebuys, the second is a flat $25, no rebuys. Can you bet as you please? That's no-limit play. If you can bet no more than the big blind, that's limit poker. (You might also be playing pot limit, but I really, really doubt it.)
Are there ways to sucker people in when you know you're going to win?
Not always. If you know you have the nuts, you can try to slow play the hand. Throw out a small bet, or check through to the next round. Then start betting a little bigger. A lot of players will figure it out, but in most home games you'll win a few very big hands like this. You can also check-raise. If you're playing ahead of someone who bets aggressively, check, then raise when they bet. They're already committed to the pot, so they'll probably call. And even if they don't, at the least you've stolen their bet.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:41 AM on December 22, 2005
Sort of. This sounds like tournament-style play; the first one is $5 with rebuys, the second is a flat $25, no rebuys. Can you bet as you please? That's no-limit play. If you can bet no more than the big blind, that's limit poker. (You might also be playing pot limit, but I really, really doubt it.)
Are there ways to sucker people in when you know you're going to win?
Not always. If you know you have the nuts, you can try to slow play the hand. Throw out a small bet, or check through to the next round. Then start betting a little bigger. A lot of players will figure it out, but in most home games you'll win a few very big hands like this. You can also check-raise. If you're playing ahead of someone who bets aggressively, check, then raise when they bet. They're already committed to the pot, so they'll probably call. And even if they don't, at the least you've stolen their bet.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:41 AM on December 22, 2005
I agree with Charmston. The problem with slow-play is that you open yourself up to opponents hitting a straight or a flush on the river. If there's a straight or flush possibility, generally I think slow play is bad idea unless you've got the nuts.
You should also learn to calculate pot odds, and make bet/call/fold decisions accordingly.
posted by nyterrant at 9:45 AM on December 22, 2005
You should also learn to calculate pot odds, and make bet/call/fold decisions accordingly.
posted by nyterrant at 9:45 AM on December 22, 2005
Best answer: jd, the diffference betwwen a no-limit and a limit game involves how much can be bet at any one time. In a no-limit game, a player may bet any amount - up to and including his whole stack - at any time. In a limit game, a cap is placed on the betting. For example, a "pot limit" game means that you can never bet more than the amount in the pot. A "2-4 limit" game means that you can bet (or raise) a maximum of 2 dollars in the first two rounds of betting, and 4 dollars in the last two (at the turn and river).
Strategy differs between these two games because it is less risky to stay in on marginal hands in a limit game than a no-limit one.
Some rules of thumb that apply in both cases:
1) Position. Be extremely aware of your position at the table. If you are in "late" position (one of the last to bet), you have the opportunity to see what others have already bet and thus try to "steal" the pot by bluffing. Bluffing in "early" position is more difficult, because someone acting after you might have a strong hand and call your bluff.
2) Seating. If you have a choice of where to sit, try to sit to the left of brash, aggressive players, and to the right of timid, tight players. This way, you minimize the times that the aggressive player raises your bet, and maximizes your ability to scare out tight players acting after you.
3) Number of players. The more the players, the better the hand it will take to win. With only two or three players left, you can loosen up a bit. This doesn't mean that you want to play too loose - just that hands like Kx or Qx or suited connectors are more likely to win.
4) Maximize wins and minimize losses. Obvious, right? But worht repeating over and over. when you know you're beat, fold. If you've tried to bluff and haven't scared people out, cut your losses and fold. Don't chase a straight or flush against a bunch of other players. When you know you have a great hand, try to maximize your winnings by getting people to stay in with you. And so forth.
5) Pay attention. Keep track of what people are betting in any particular hand and over the course of the evening. At every step of a hand, identify what the best possible hand is, and what hands can beat yours. (For example: you are dealt Q-Q, a strong hand at the outset. You're in good shape. The flop comes 8-6-5. You're in great shape - you likely have the best hand at the table. The turn is a K. All of a sudden, anyone with a king in their hand will beat you. Your hand has gone from great to marginal. The river is a 7. Now anyone with a 9 or 4 has a straight and beats you. What started out as a great hand has now become a big loser).
posted by googly at 9:50 AM on December 22, 2005 [1 favorite]
Strategy differs between these two games because it is less risky to stay in on marginal hands in a limit game than a no-limit one.
Some rules of thumb that apply in both cases:
1) Position. Be extremely aware of your position at the table. If you are in "late" position (one of the last to bet), you have the opportunity to see what others have already bet and thus try to "steal" the pot by bluffing. Bluffing in "early" position is more difficult, because someone acting after you might have a strong hand and call your bluff.
2) Seating. If you have a choice of where to sit, try to sit to the left of brash, aggressive players, and to the right of timid, tight players. This way, you minimize the times that the aggressive player raises your bet, and maximizes your ability to scare out tight players acting after you.
3) Number of players. The more the players, the better the hand it will take to win. With only two or three players left, you can loosen up a bit. This doesn't mean that you want to play too loose - just that hands like Kx or Qx or suited connectors are more likely to win.
4) Maximize wins and minimize losses. Obvious, right? But worht repeating over and over. when you know you're beat, fold. If you've tried to bluff and haven't scared people out, cut your losses and fold. Don't chase a straight or flush against a bunch of other players. When you know you have a great hand, try to maximize your winnings by getting people to stay in with you. And so forth.
5) Pay attention. Keep track of what people are betting in any particular hand and over the course of the evening. At every step of a hand, identify what the best possible hand is, and what hands can beat yours. (For example: you are dealt Q-Q, a strong hand at the outset. You're in good shape. The flop comes 8-6-5. You're in great shape - you likely have the best hand at the table. The turn is a K. All of a sudden, anyone with a king in their hand will beat you. Your hand has gone from great to marginal. The river is a 7. Now anyone with a 9 or 4 has a straight and beats you. What started out as a great hand has now become a big loser).
posted by googly at 9:50 AM on December 22, 2005 [1 favorite]
Step One: Listen to everyone's advice. Smile and nod. Then ignore the hell out of it.
Step Two: Learn the odds. The odds are the probability that a certain hand will win (sort of) Either work them out yourself or pick up a book that tells you them. Remember, these are odds, they are not certain.
Step Three: Play lots and lots. Watch how other people play. Watch how they bet. Notice who wins and who doesn't. Try to see why.
Step Four: Develop your style. Every player has their own way of playing, whether they are aggressive or a slow player. Whether they like trapping or they like to bet out people and ensure they win. Nothing you read here (or in any book for that matter) will magically make you a great poker player. Just because someone tells you exactly how to behave doesn't mean it will work for you. Not every strategy fits every person's mindset.
posted by cyphill at 9:52 AM on December 22, 2005
Step Two: Learn the odds. The odds are the probability that a certain hand will win (sort of) Either work them out yourself or pick up a book that tells you them. Remember, these are odds, they are not certain.
Step Three: Play lots and lots. Watch how other people play. Watch how they bet. Notice who wins and who doesn't. Try to see why.
Step Four: Develop your style. Every player has their own way of playing, whether they are aggressive or a slow player. Whether they like trapping or they like to bet out people and ensure they win. Nothing you read here (or in any book for that matter) will magically make you a great poker player. Just because someone tells you exactly how to behave doesn't mean it will work for you. Not every strategy fits every person's mindset.
posted by cyphill at 9:52 AM on December 22, 2005
While cards are a large factor, the people I'm playing with, in my experience, determine what, when and how I play my cards.
To be honest, I think the best advice I could give to someone is to just watch people. Watch when they bet, when they fold, and just get a general feel of how they play their cards.
Personally, I tend to play more like the SAS. "Who Dares Wins", but I seem to be in the minority of people who don't care about the money, so taking risks and losing is often just as much, if not more fun for me than winning. Actually, most of the time I'd prefer to have fun and lose in a big way than play a careful game and be bored.
Unless you're playing for big bucks you can't afford to lose (In which case you shouldn't be playing), I'd say just play what you want, how you want and lose a few times. Don't take it too seriously, and you'll learn things pretty quickly.
Oh, and keep your cards to yourself. Never show them unless they're paying you to.
posted by jcruden at 10:00 AM on December 22, 2005
To be honest, I think the best advice I could give to someone is to just watch people. Watch when they bet, when they fold, and just get a general feel of how they play their cards.
Personally, I tend to play more like the SAS. "Who Dares Wins", but I seem to be in the minority of people who don't care about the money, so taking risks and losing is often just as much, if not more fun for me than winning. Actually, most of the time I'd prefer to have fun and lose in a big way than play a careful game and be bored.
Unless you're playing for big bucks you can't afford to lose (In which case you shouldn't be playing), I'd say just play what you want, how you want and lose a few times. Don't take it too seriously, and you'll learn things pretty quickly.
Oh, and keep your cards to yourself. Never show them unless they're paying you to.
posted by jcruden at 10:00 AM on December 22, 2005
Best answer: jdroth, I'm going to assume the $25 game is a no-limit cash game. Advice is as follows (most of this advice also applies to a tournament, also called a freeze-out, where you buy in for a certain amount of money, and over time, the blinds escalate so eventually the blinds are so big people start getting eliminated until there's one man left standing.)
1) Cards are good for three primary reasons (this is from memory, hope I don't screw this up) : Connectivity (making straights) suitedness (making flushes) and high card potential (making big pairs, etc.). Cards that fit into all of these three categories, such as AK suited, are the best of the best. Big pairs are obviously awesome, but you know that. If a hand has only one of these attributes, it's probably not worth playing. Perfect example: J3 suited, or 67 offsuit.
2) You'll only make a flush with suited cards about 5 percent of the time, but this 5 percent is often the difference between a good hand and a bad hand. If you're not sure whether a hand is good, be inclined to play it if it's suited and fold it if it's unsuited.
3) (along the same lines) It's OK to fold your face cards if they aren't suited. Really. You might think that Jack Ten offsuit is a great hand, and it is for those one in 20 times where you hit a straight, but it sucks because if you hit a pair with it, your kicker (unpaired card) is gonna get owned by hands like QJ, KT, etc etc etc. If it's suited as well as connected, though, that gives you a little bit of extra umph.
4) If there's lots of people in, call liberally in the small blind, but keep in mind if you limp in with something like A2 and you hit an ace for top pair, if people show a lot of strength, you may have to fold.
5) Don't EVER limp (simply calling the big blind) if you're the first one in. Never, ever do this. Raise or fold. Raise or fold. Repeat this until you believe it. By the time you know when you can break this rule, you won't need any of the advice in this thread :-)
6) If you have a strong hand such as two pair, three of a kind, a straight or a flush, if you're betting, always bet at least half the pot, and consider betting more than that. You don't want to give that jerk with two pair appropriate odds to draw out on your flush to make a full house against you, so make sure you bet enough. (When in doubt about "enough", bet around 3/4 of the pot, as long as you have a strong hand.)
7) Keep in mind the importance of position, that is, where you are in relation to the dealer. If you're on the button (the dealer) that's the best seat in the house. You can play a lot more hands in that position. If there's lots of callers, you can call most of your drawing hands (86 suited, pocket 3s, etc), if there are no callers, you can raise with any ace and most kings, etc. As you get closer and closer to early position, you need to tighten up and play fewer hands.
8) It's OK to fold 10 hands in a row if they really suck. But when you play a hand after going this long, you should usually raise it unless there's too many people in the pot ... otherwise, whenever you raise people will automatically put you on aces and fold, which is not what you want in most cases.
9) When you raise before the flop, you should bet three to five times the previous bet. So if you're playing in a game with a $.25 big blind, your "opening" raise should be around $1, and more than that if there's already people in the pot.
posted by Happydaz at 10:07 AM on December 22, 2005 [1 favorite]
1) Cards are good for three primary reasons (this is from memory, hope I don't screw this up) : Connectivity (making straights) suitedness (making flushes) and high card potential (making big pairs, etc.). Cards that fit into all of these three categories, such as AK suited, are the best of the best. Big pairs are obviously awesome, but you know that. If a hand has only one of these attributes, it's probably not worth playing. Perfect example: J3 suited, or 67 offsuit.
2) You'll only make a flush with suited cards about 5 percent of the time, but this 5 percent is often the difference between a good hand and a bad hand. If you're not sure whether a hand is good, be inclined to play it if it's suited and fold it if it's unsuited.
3) (along the same lines) It's OK to fold your face cards if they aren't suited. Really. You might think that Jack Ten offsuit is a great hand, and it is for those one in 20 times where you hit a straight, but it sucks because if you hit a pair with it, your kicker (unpaired card) is gonna get owned by hands like QJ, KT, etc etc etc. If it's suited as well as connected, though, that gives you a little bit of extra umph.
4) If there's lots of people in, call liberally in the small blind, but keep in mind if you limp in with something like A2 and you hit an ace for top pair, if people show a lot of strength, you may have to fold.
5) Don't EVER limp (simply calling the big blind) if you're the first one in. Never, ever do this. Raise or fold. Raise or fold. Repeat this until you believe it. By the time you know when you can break this rule, you won't need any of the advice in this thread :-)
6) If you have a strong hand such as two pair, three of a kind, a straight or a flush, if you're betting, always bet at least half the pot, and consider betting more than that. You don't want to give that jerk with two pair appropriate odds to draw out on your flush to make a full house against you, so make sure you bet enough. (When in doubt about "enough", bet around 3/4 of the pot, as long as you have a strong hand.)
7) Keep in mind the importance of position, that is, where you are in relation to the dealer. If you're on the button (the dealer) that's the best seat in the house. You can play a lot more hands in that position. If there's lots of callers, you can call most of your drawing hands (86 suited, pocket 3s, etc), if there are no callers, you can raise with any ace and most kings, etc. As you get closer and closer to early position, you need to tighten up and play fewer hands.
8) It's OK to fold 10 hands in a row if they really suck. But when you play a hand after going this long, you should usually raise it unless there's too many people in the pot ... otherwise, whenever you raise people will automatically put you on aces and fold, which is not what you want in most cases.
9) When you raise before the flop, you should bet three to five times the previous bet. So if you're playing in a game with a $.25 big blind, your "opening" raise should be around $1, and more than that if there's already people in the pot.
posted by Happydaz at 10:07 AM on December 22, 2005 [1 favorite]
Oh, and keep your cards to yourself. Never show them unless they're paying you to.
I disagree sometimes. Showing your cards can be a useful tactic to make yourself look like a bluffer or someone who only plays strong hands allowing your to switch it up mid-game and win a few pots you might not have otherwise (ie, show a bluff early on and hope people keep that in the back of their minds so they stay in longer thinking I'll bluff). In tournaments with raising blinds, this can be a useful tactic- show a few bluffs early on when the betting isn't that big, and use that to your advantage when the pots get bigger. A vica-versa. Also, showing my hand when I don't need to will usually cause other people to follow suit allowing me to learn their tendancies.
posted by jmd82 at 10:43 AM on December 22, 2005
I disagree sometimes. Showing your cards can be a useful tactic to make yourself look like a bluffer or someone who only plays strong hands allowing your to switch it up mid-game and win a few pots you might not have otherwise (ie, show a bluff early on and hope people keep that in the back of their minds so they stay in longer thinking I'll bluff). In tournaments with raising blinds, this can be a useful tactic- show a few bluffs early on when the betting isn't that big, and use that to your advantage when the pots get bigger. A vica-versa. Also, showing my hand when I don't need to will usually cause other people to follow suit allowing me to learn their tendancies.
posted by jmd82 at 10:43 AM on December 22, 2005
Don't play like people tell you to or like you see on TV. You're playing people, not playing cards, and so THAT is what you must learn - how to read them, who you're playing (their styles, tells, and habits), and so on. All the technical advice given is very good, but your post sounds like you're trying to imitate what you think you should play like and you really just need to learn your own style.
Bluffing, playing bad hands, and body language opposite of your hand's strength are some of the things beginners mistakenly latch on to. Anyone with a modicum of experience will pick up a tell than you fake excitement when you're drawing dead and vice versa, since yinz new folks all do it. :) I did.
Playing big loose micro-limit play money ring games online will not help you win against experienced players in a tournament, or a limit game, or a short table, etc. It'll pass the time, that's all.
Just play. Play play play. Read. Combine the two and you'll gain your own feelings and knowledge.
posted by kcm at 10:43 AM on December 22, 2005
Bluffing, playing bad hands, and body language opposite of your hand's strength are some of the things beginners mistakenly latch on to. Anyone with a modicum of experience will pick up a tell than you fake excitement when you're drawing dead and vice versa, since yinz new folks all do it. :) I did.
Playing big loose micro-limit play money ring games online will not help you win against experienced players in a tournament, or a limit game, or a short table, etc. It'll pass the time, that's all.
Just play. Play play play. Read. Combine the two and you'll gain your own feelings and knowledge.
posted by kcm at 10:43 AM on December 22, 2005
I think what I implied but did not say explicitly was that you should ignore all the "strategies" like jmd82 has spelled out for now, and focus on playing a solid, tight, controlled game. Stay off tilt. Don't get lost in playing games with bluffs and showing cards and that. Know your odds, both hand and pot, know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em, and fold early and often. You'll know when to start playing the games within the game - it's when you realize it's a good idea, and not when someone else recommends it.
posted by kcm at 10:46 AM on December 22, 2005
posted by kcm at 10:46 AM on December 22, 2005
The #1 rule is ... don't drink. In most of the games I've played, the winner is usually sucking down Red Bull and smoking Old Golds. (See, Red Bull looks like a "real" drink when it's one the rocks.) Unfortunately, I play have fun and a few drinks. That's why, I've never done better than third place.
posted by GarageWine at 10:48 AM on December 22, 2005
posted by GarageWine at 10:48 AM on December 22, 2005
Best answer: It sounds like you're playing tournaments - some rebuys, some freezeouts, correct? First, second and maybe one or two more places get paid money and everyone else goes broke right? You get maybe 500 or 1000 in starting chips for your $25, rather than playing straight up for cash, and being able to cash out in the middle? Then it's a tournament.
Here's the tips I gave my dad, who fared reasonably well despite having little to no grasp of the game:
1) If your hand has a card below 9 in it, do not play it unless it is a pair. Folding may be boring, but it's correct. Often.
2) Suited doesn't matter much (it adds roughly 1.5% to the strength of your hand) - I don't care how pretty it looks!
3) If the flop hasn't been dealt yet, and a respectable player has raised - fold your hand if it has a card below Queen in it, unless it is, say, a pair of Jacks. You may be folding a better hand than the person who raised, but it's unlikely unless the raiser is bluffing / very aggressive.
4) When you have good cards, RAISE! Do not play scared.
5) When you miss a flop (i.e. you have Ace-King and no ace or king comes on the board... ) FOLD TO ANY BET. Your odds of catching an ace or king are quite low.
6) Finally: Learn the "odds and outs" stuff. You need to learn how many cards can help make your hand better so you know when you should be "drawing" and when you should just fold. A gutshot straight, for example (where say you have QJ, and the board is 389 - so you need a T to make a straight) is a TERRIBLE draw.
You asked for really basic "novice rules".. these will help you get started.
You should really read a book though. I recommend Harrington On Hold 'Em (volumes 1 and 2).. they're inexpensive and worth every penny for tournament poker.
posted by twiggy at 12:03 PM on December 22, 2005 [1 favorite]
Here's the tips I gave my dad, who fared reasonably well despite having little to no grasp of the game:
1) If your hand has a card below 9 in it, do not play it unless it is a pair. Folding may be boring, but it's correct. Often.
2) Suited doesn't matter much (it adds roughly 1.5% to the strength of your hand) - I don't care how pretty it looks!
3) If the flop hasn't been dealt yet, and a respectable player has raised - fold your hand if it has a card below Queen in it, unless it is, say, a pair of Jacks. You may be folding a better hand than the person who raised, but it's unlikely unless the raiser is bluffing / very aggressive.
4) When you have good cards, RAISE! Do not play scared.
5) When you miss a flop (i.e. you have Ace-King and no ace or king comes on the board... ) FOLD TO ANY BET. Your odds of catching an ace or king are quite low.
6) Finally: Learn the "odds and outs" stuff. You need to learn how many cards can help make your hand better so you know when you should be "drawing" and when you should just fold. A gutshot straight, for example (where say you have QJ, and the board is 389 - so you need a T to make a straight) is a TERRIBLE draw.
You asked for really basic "novice rules".. these will help you get started.
You should really read a book though. I recommend Harrington On Hold 'Em (volumes 1 and 2).. they're inexpensive and worth every penny for tournament poker.
posted by twiggy at 12:03 PM on December 22, 2005 [1 favorite]
twiggy: "You should really read a book though. I recommend Harrington On Hold 'Em (volumes 1 and 2).. they're inexpensive and worth every penny for tournament poker."
seconded. the blue and red books next to each other at Borders.
posted by kcm at 12:06 PM on December 22, 2005
seconded. the blue and red books next to each other at Borders.
posted by kcm at 12:06 PM on December 22, 2005
The Harrington On Hold 'Em books are the best tournament poker books out there. Bar none.
But before you get to those, read Sklansky's Theory of Poker. Then read it again. Read it annually. It is the poker bible, introducing many concepts that are crucial to understanding the crux of poker. It is the best poker book a novice could read. Hell, it's the best poker book anyone could read.
And finally, as crazy as this sounds, download an online poker client and play a few thousand hands for play money. The competition is terrible, but it will get you used to flexing your poker muscles. You'll start to get an idea about certain situations and learn the basics.
Good luck!
posted by LouMac at 1:06 PM on December 22, 2005
But before you get to those, read Sklansky's Theory of Poker. Then read it again. Read it annually. It is the poker bible, introducing many concepts that are crucial to understanding the crux of poker. It is the best poker book a novice could read. Hell, it's the best poker book anyone could read.
And finally, as crazy as this sounds, download an online poker client and play a few thousand hands for play money. The competition is terrible, but it will get you used to flexing your poker muscles. You'll start to get an idea about certain situations and learn the basics.
Good luck!
posted by LouMac at 1:06 PM on December 22, 2005
Response by poster: Some fantastic answers so far. Thanks. I'll mark best answers later. For now, I'll answer and ask some questions:
You still haven't answered whether you are playing no-limit or limit, but I suspect you're playing no-limit. (if you can push all of your chips in at any time, that's no-limit, otherwise you're playing limit).
Ah. Got it. I'm playing no-limit. People go all-in all the time, especially in the $5 "rebuy all you want" game.
The #1 rule is ... don't drink.
I think this is a good one. I enjoy an adult beverage now and then, and this group can certainly drink up a storm (especially Mr. Bold and Brash), but I do think much better when sober. Also, I don't take as may risks when sober. This is sound advice.
It sounds like you're playing tournaments - some rebuys, some freezeouts, correct? First, second and maybe one or two more places get paid money and everyone else goes broke right? You get maybe 500 or 1000 in starting chips for your $25, rather than playing straight up for cash, and being able to cash out in the middle? Then it's a tournament.
I don't know what freezeouts are. Yes, the top few places get all the money and everyone else goes broke. (One exception: in the $25 game, $3 of the buyin is held back to be paid to an opponent who wins the hand if you go "all in".) Yes, you buy 1000 or 5000 in chips with your money and cannot cash out in the middle. (Top two sometimes opt to split the pot, but that's it.)
Thanks for the advice! I hope to make use of it tomorrow night.
posted by jdroth at 2:19 PM on December 22, 2005
You still haven't answered whether you are playing no-limit or limit, but I suspect you're playing no-limit. (if you can push all of your chips in at any time, that's no-limit, otherwise you're playing limit).
Ah. Got it. I'm playing no-limit. People go all-in all the time, especially in the $5 "rebuy all you want" game.
The #1 rule is ... don't drink.
I think this is a good one. I enjoy an adult beverage now and then, and this group can certainly drink up a storm (especially Mr. Bold and Brash), but I do think much better when sober. Also, I don't take as may risks when sober. This is sound advice.
It sounds like you're playing tournaments - some rebuys, some freezeouts, correct? First, second and maybe one or two more places get paid money and everyone else goes broke right? You get maybe 500 or 1000 in starting chips for your $25, rather than playing straight up for cash, and being able to cash out in the middle? Then it's a tournament.
I don't know what freezeouts are. Yes, the top few places get all the money and everyone else goes broke. (One exception: in the $25 game, $3 of the buyin is held back to be paid to an opponent who wins the hand if you go "all in".) Yes, you buy 1000 or 5000 in chips with your money and cannot cash out in the middle. (Top two sometimes opt to split the pot, but that's it.)
Thanks for the advice! I hope to make use of it tomorrow night.
posted by jdroth at 2:19 PM on December 22, 2005
Best answer: Here's my version of simplified NL strategy that incorporates a little bit of odds into the play.
First, definitions:
Crazy bets -- more than 5 times the current bet or big blind, up to going all in.
Big bets -- 4 to 5 times the current bet or big blind
Standard bets -- 2.5 to 3 times etc.
Weak bets -- 2 times the big blind
Hand Averages -- the average of the value of the 2 cards. Queen average means two queens, a king and a jack, or an ace and a ten. King average means two kings or an ace and a king. Etc.
OK.
> 6 players.
Only call or make crazy bets with king average or better. If you have a choice, stick to big bets with king average at best.
Only call or make standard bets with queen average or better. Fold to raises with any other hand.
Only call pairs JJ or lower if there are more than 4 other players in the pot. The chance of getting trips is too low otherwise.
Fold all other hands, don't worry about suit, think discipline.
After flop.
Fold automatically if you aren't at least top pair or have a nut straight or flush draw.
Only slow play if you have a sneaky good hand (i.e. trips or pocket aces) and there is no flush or straight draw.
If you have top pair and fear the straight draw, bet ~75% of the pot or more.
If you have top pair and fear the flush draw, bet ~55% of the pot or more.
Never ever go all in unless you have trips or better and you can't be facing a made straight or flush.
If you suspect a made straight or flush, stick to small bets or checking.
4-6 players.
Still keep crazy bets to king average or better.
Big bets with queen average or better.
You can now call or make standard bets with jack average or better. Fold to raises with any other hand.
Big bet with pairs 8 and higher ONLY if you can reasonable knock everyone but one other player out. Fold all other low pairs.
Fold all other hands, don't worry about suit, think ninja aggression, mostly silent, but then ruthless.
After flop.
Same play as before but be slightly more confident with top pair.
Avoid going all in. But don't back down if you have a strong hand.
If you suspect a made straight or flush, stick to small bets or checking.
2-3 players.
Don't make crazy bets, but call them with king average or QQ or better.
Big bets with queen average or better.
Make standard bets with any two cards higher than 8, but only call bets with jack average
Fold to raises with any other hand.
Big bet with any pair, but be ready to fold.
Fold all other hands, don't worry about suit, think random aggression, you can't be afraid of losing.
After flop.
Bet with any top or second pair. Slow play draws and really good hands.
Play aggressively with any hand you would feel dignified losing with. If that means a crazy bet on top pair, so be it.
I think that's it. It's pretty tight aggressive play, which is considered to be the best for winning with low variance. It's a pretty stable way to play when everyone else is drinking and playing loose.
posted by dness2 at 3:55 PM on December 22, 2005 [2 favorites]
First, definitions:
Crazy bets -- more than 5 times the current bet or big blind, up to going all in.
Big bets -- 4 to 5 times the current bet or big blind
Standard bets -- 2.5 to 3 times etc.
Weak bets -- 2 times the big blind
Hand Averages -- the average of the value of the 2 cards. Queen average means two queens, a king and a jack, or an ace and a ten. King average means two kings or an ace and a king. Etc.
OK.
> 6 players.
Only call or make crazy bets with king average or better. If you have a choice, stick to big bets with king average at best.
Only call or make standard bets with queen average or better. Fold to raises with any other hand.
Only call pairs JJ or lower if there are more than 4 other players in the pot. The chance of getting trips is too low otherwise.
Fold all other hands, don't worry about suit, think discipline.
After flop.
Fold automatically if you aren't at least top pair or have a nut straight or flush draw.
Only slow play if you have a sneaky good hand (i.e. trips or pocket aces) and there is no flush or straight draw.
If you have top pair and fear the straight draw, bet ~75% of the pot or more.
If you have top pair and fear the flush draw, bet ~55% of the pot or more.
Never ever go all in unless you have trips or better and you can't be facing a made straight or flush.
If you suspect a made straight or flush, stick to small bets or checking.
4-6 players.
Still keep crazy bets to king average or better.
Big bets with queen average or better.
You can now call or make standard bets with jack average or better. Fold to raises with any other hand.
Big bet with pairs 8 and higher ONLY if you can reasonable knock everyone but one other player out. Fold all other low pairs.
Fold all other hands, don't worry about suit, think ninja aggression, mostly silent, but then ruthless.
After flop.
Same play as before but be slightly more confident with top pair.
Avoid going all in. But don't back down if you have a strong hand.
If you suspect a made straight or flush, stick to small bets or checking.
2-3 players.
Don't make crazy bets, but call them with king average or QQ or better.
Big bets with queen average or better.
Make standard bets with any two cards higher than 8, but only call bets with jack average
Fold to raises with any other hand.
Big bet with any pair, but be ready to fold.
Fold all other hands, don't worry about suit, think random aggression, you can't be afraid of losing.
After flop.
Bet with any top or second pair. Slow play draws and really good hands.
Play aggressively with any hand you would feel dignified losing with. If that means a crazy bet on top pair, so be it.
I think that's it. It's pretty tight aggressive play, which is considered to be the best for winning with low variance. It's a pretty stable way to play when everyone else is drinking and playing loose.
posted by dness2 at 3:55 PM on December 22, 2005 [2 favorites]
Oh, I forgot. Only chase a flush draw or a straight draw if you have to add less than 50% of the pot (before other raises) to do it. Fold any other draw nomatter how tempting or pretty. Otherwise, you will lose more than you will win. Chasing against the odds is a slow sucker's death.
posted by dness2 at 4:08 PM on December 22, 2005
posted by dness2 at 4:08 PM on December 22, 2005
Best answer: You already have plenty of good advice, but it's 20 minutes to go on my last day in the office until late next week, so what the hell...
* Q9 suited is generally the worst hand you want to play until you have a better sense of the game, and even that is questionable. In my casual home games when I get a little drunk or stoned and I start thinking about that J7 under the gun, I just repeat to myself that it's worse than my worst hand and I need to fold. Remember, an Ace with a 9 or lower unsuited kicker is usually garbage. Let's say you play A4. /Someone/ else likely has an ace, so you're either going to get a pair of 4s with a hell of a kicker or a weak pair of aces. And most everything can beat a pair of 4s.
* Make sure your cards work together. KT can make a straight. Q7 can't.
* Don't fall in love with your cards. If your hand is not the best possible out there and you have two other people betting and raising, fold. Even if you made a strong bet and one person calls and another raises... it's likely that at least one of them has you beat. Don't throw good money after bad.
* Make your decision after everyone else has acted. People lose money by deciding what they're going to do well before its their turn, and don't adjust properly once three people have bet and raised in front of them. Don't even look at your hole cards pre-flop until just before its your turn to act.
* Sit to the left of people who piss you off so you can fold for free after their crazy plays.
* The way to beat the guy who pushes people around with his stack is to only play the best of the best hands against him. Those who bet a lot tend to win a lot but they also lose a lot. Slow and steady wins the race.
* As was stated, raise or fold, raise or fold, raise or fold. If a hand's worth calling, it's worth raising. Be prepared to bet at least twice that amount in the next rounds. If that makes you uncomfortable, fold. And if you want others to fold, bet at /least/ 50% of the pot. You can't scare anybody out with a $4 bet on a $30 pot, and you might just get raised. You want to win your hands when they're winners. Your three aces may be good on the flop, so win it on the flop. Don't let someone suck out a draw on you. Hands should rarely make the river in no limit, let alone show down.
Damn, I wanted this to be brief, but there are so many good tips for beginners. I have more, but now it's time to go home. Happy holidays!
posted by p7a77 at 5:54 PM on December 22, 2005
* Q9 suited is generally the worst hand you want to play until you have a better sense of the game, and even that is questionable. In my casual home games when I get a little drunk or stoned and I start thinking about that J7 under the gun, I just repeat to myself that it's worse than my worst hand and I need to fold. Remember, an Ace with a 9 or lower unsuited kicker is usually garbage. Let's say you play A4. /Someone/ else likely has an ace, so you're either going to get a pair of 4s with a hell of a kicker or a weak pair of aces. And most everything can beat a pair of 4s.
* Make sure your cards work together. KT can make a straight. Q7 can't.
* Don't fall in love with your cards. If your hand is not the best possible out there and you have two other people betting and raising, fold. Even if you made a strong bet and one person calls and another raises... it's likely that at least one of them has you beat. Don't throw good money after bad.
* Make your decision after everyone else has acted. People lose money by deciding what they're going to do well before its their turn, and don't adjust properly once three people have bet and raised in front of them. Don't even look at your hole cards pre-flop until just before its your turn to act.
* Sit to the left of people who piss you off so you can fold for free after their crazy plays.
* The way to beat the guy who pushes people around with his stack is to only play the best of the best hands against him. Those who bet a lot tend to win a lot but they also lose a lot. Slow and steady wins the race.
* As was stated, raise or fold, raise or fold, raise or fold. If a hand's worth calling, it's worth raising. Be prepared to bet at least twice that amount in the next rounds. If that makes you uncomfortable, fold. And if you want others to fold, bet at /least/ 50% of the pot. You can't scare anybody out with a $4 bet on a $30 pot, and you might just get raised. You want to win your hands when they're winners. Your three aces may be good on the flop, so win it on the flop. Don't let someone suck out a draw on you. Hands should rarely make the river in no limit, let alone show down.
Damn, I wanted this to be brief, but there are so many good tips for beginners. I have more, but now it's time to go home. Happy holidays!
posted by p7a77 at 5:54 PM on December 22, 2005
There are some good books you can geat. Look on amazon for texas hold'em and read the reviews.
posted by Paris Hilton at 6:54 PM on December 22, 2005
posted by Paris Hilton at 6:54 PM on December 22, 2005
Stop thinking you're going to get lucky. Luck is (generally) a good player's enemy.
posted by Mrs.Doyle at 1:30 PM on March 9, 2006
posted by Mrs.Doyle at 1:30 PM on March 9, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by alms at 8:58 AM on December 22, 2005