Drowning in baby pictures, and limited adult interactions for a new mom
December 21, 2015 8:12 AM Subscribe
A friend beloved by Mrs. Glaucon and me had her first baby this summer - which is wonderful. We have since been drowning in baby pictures sent every 1-3 days, and it's getting to be a bit much. Have you experienced this before and how did you deal with it?
Her life is now her baby, as it is for most couples and we do understand that. What's a bit concerning is she stopped working to become a full-time mother and is in a new city for her husband's job. It seems as if the combination of not having daily adult interaction outside of her husband and a lack of a social network have combined to encourage a more-than-average intense focus on her new baby.
These are some things that are a bit overwhelming, and we don't know if we just keep our mouths shut (which we can do) or kindly bring up:
-She added us to a shared photo album that currently has almost 700 photos/videos. That clocks to well over 100 photos/videos a month, many of which are pretty much the same picture
-On a group thread with friends or with us, there will be separate pictures or videos texted out every 2-3 days (pictures/videos that are not in the shared photo album)
-She tries video calls for conversations once a week. I don't particularly love video calls for a variety of reasons, and the purpose always seems to be just so she can show us her baby. I'd be happy to do that every once in a while, these calls come in once a week and I usually end up calling her over the phone instead. She doesn't insist on video calls verbally, but it's her #1 go to for a conversation
I am also a bit concerned, although it's not my life, that she and her husband haven't taken any time for just themselves. Even an evening out for a few hours at dinner or a movie hasn't happened. I have close family there she also knows and knows quite well, and they've offered several times to watch their baby so she and her husband can have a night out. They've not done this, which doesn't matter except I personally think it's healthy to take some time away from your baby. Easier said than done on my part as I don't yet have a kid, but still.
Have you experienced this before? Or, as a new parent, can you help me understand this or offer some tips?
Her life is now her baby, as it is for most couples and we do understand that. What's a bit concerning is she stopped working to become a full-time mother and is in a new city for her husband's job. It seems as if the combination of not having daily adult interaction outside of her husband and a lack of a social network have combined to encourage a more-than-average intense focus on her new baby.
These are some things that are a bit overwhelming, and we don't know if we just keep our mouths shut (which we can do) or kindly bring up:
-She added us to a shared photo album that currently has almost 700 photos/videos. That clocks to well over 100 photos/videos a month, many of which are pretty much the same picture
-On a group thread with friends or with us, there will be separate pictures or videos texted out every 2-3 days (pictures/videos that are not in the shared photo album)
-She tries video calls for conversations once a week. I don't particularly love video calls for a variety of reasons, and the purpose always seems to be just so she can show us her baby. I'd be happy to do that every once in a while, these calls come in once a week and I usually end up calling her over the phone instead. She doesn't insist on video calls verbally, but it's her #1 go to for a conversation
I am also a bit concerned, although it's not my life, that she and her husband haven't taken any time for just themselves. Even an evening out for a few hours at dinner or a movie hasn't happened. I have close family there she also knows and knows quite well, and they've offered several times to watch their baby so she and her husband can have a night out. They've not done this, which doesn't matter except I personally think it's healthy to take some time away from your baby. Easier said than done on my part as I don't yet have a kid, but still.
Have you experienced this before? Or, as a new parent, can you help me understand this or offer some tips?
I am not sure what the problem is. If you don't want to look at the pictures, you don't have to. Just as you've done with the video vs. phone, you can choose what to look at and/or respond to online.
I am also a bit concerned, although it's not my life, that she and her husband haven't taken any time for just themselves.
As you say, it's not your life. Nor are these people your children.
Life changes when you have a child. Friendships also change.
posted by headnsouth at 8:16 AM on December 21, 2015 [37 favorites]
I am also a bit concerned, although it's not my life, that she and her husband haven't taken any time for just themselves.
As you say, it's not your life. Nor are these people your children.
Life changes when you have a child. Friendships also change.
posted by headnsouth at 8:16 AM on December 21, 2015 [37 favorites]
If she is still doing this 2 years from now, then you can begin to be concerned. Right now, just look at the pictures that you want to look at and ignore the rest. It is healthy and normal for a mother to love her baby that much. It is healthy and normal for you to be bored by her behavior. Give it a few years, it will ease up.
Don't bother suggesting a night out. First time mom's have a lot of difficulty with this. Just let her do her thing.
posted by myselfasme at 8:18 AM on December 21, 2015 [13 favorites]
Don't bother suggesting a night out. First time mom's have a lot of difficulty with this. Just let her do her thing.
posted by myselfasme at 8:18 AM on December 21, 2015 [13 favorites]
You absolutely do not get to opine on whether she should go out with her husband or leave her baby with a sitter. You can be an ear for the husband, but otherwise that is no business of yours unless you are asked or it comes up in conversation.
As for pictures, either ignore the shared album and flip through once in a while, or remove yourself from it. I have a shared album on iDevices that is mostly for grandparents, but there are a few friends on it as well. Is this an album that grandparents get to see? Then take yourself off and rely on the things that are being sent by message.
As for the video calls, just tell her you prefer phone calls. I hate video calls and I hate speaker phone and I've had to tell a number of people this. It is not a big deal. Real friends don't care.
If you're really worried about her being isolated because she is in a new place with a young baby, send your wife there for a visit.
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:18 AM on December 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
As for pictures, either ignore the shared album and flip through once in a while, or remove yourself from it. I have a shared album on iDevices that is mostly for grandparents, but there are a few friends on it as well. Is this an album that grandparents get to see? Then take yourself off and rely on the things that are being sent by message.
As for the video calls, just tell her you prefer phone calls. I hate video calls and I hate speaker phone and I've had to tell a number of people this. It is not a big deal. Real friends don't care.
If you're really worried about her being isolated because she is in a new place with a young baby, send your wife there for a visit.
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:18 AM on December 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is normal and this isn't your life (and like others are saying it will cool down over time). Also it seems like it'd be super easy to just ignore most of this. Is there weird social pressure for you to "like" all 700 pictures? Because to heck with that. I'm on a couple of those ever growing shared albums for friends and relations and while I drop in from time to time and flip through a few photos I feel no obligation to keep up with them. (Though they do make a good source of inspiration for customized magnets and the like as small gifts.) Just throw in an "oh how cute" comment every once in a while and be done with it.
The video call thing does seem mildly annoying if you're not into it but it doesn't sound like she's going crazy forcing you to videochat. Honestly it's the easiest way to get some facetime with adults if you're in full at-home babymode, which it sounds like she is. If you want to keep her as a friend I'd just go with it.
posted by Wretch729 at 8:24 AM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
The video call thing does seem mildly annoying if you're not into it but it doesn't sound like she's going crazy forcing you to videochat. Honestly it's the easiest way to get some facetime with adults if you're in full at-home babymode, which it sounds like she is. If you want to keep her as a friend I'd just go with it.
posted by Wretch729 at 8:24 AM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
I get hundreds of unsolicited pictures from my cousin's wife monthly, the kid is almost four now and we still get them. I delete without opening. I have flatly said to her and others, no, two or three is fine, sorry. End of story. Lots of people do this, you're in good company. If they push, well, too bad, take care of yourself first.
posted by sockerpup at 8:26 AM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sockerpup at 8:26 AM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for the advice, everyone. She's a wonderful person and we love her dearly - I really appreciate all of you taking a few moments to share your thoughts.
Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas!
posted by glaucon at 8:34 AM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas!
posted by glaucon at 8:34 AM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm one of those people who enjoy looking at baby pictures. Even I just click 'like' and move on.
The rest is really personal and it's best just to MYOB.
This too shall pass.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:34 AM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
The rest is really personal and it's best just to MYOB.
This too shall pass.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:34 AM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's a *lot* of pictures, even for a new mom, but maybe she's not a confident photographer (or editor)? But what's the big deal? You don't have to look at all of them. Glance at a couple, go "yes, very nice!", and be done with it.
I have lost (as in not seen at all) most of my new mom friends for *at least* the first 8 months after the birth, a year or more for some. Even the ones who have ready babysitters and are stir crazy and *want* to go out. They're beat! And (probably correctly) full of baby love. At some point things will level off, but it's just how things will go for a bit. The fact that she's trying with these video calls points to your friend making a real effort with you guys, imo.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:38 AM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
I have lost (as in not seen at all) most of my new mom friends for *at least* the first 8 months after the birth, a year or more for some. Even the ones who have ready babysitters and are stir crazy and *want* to go out. They're beat! And (probably correctly) full of baby love. At some point things will level off, but it's just how things will go for a bit. The fact that she's trying with these video calls points to your friend making a real effort with you guys, imo.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:38 AM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
The thing about our phones now being our cameras is that it takes zero thought to take a picture, and it often gets automatically uploaded to an album and if you're a shared person that album, well... What I'm saying is that amassing this many pictures of your offspring is incredibly easy now-a-days. It's not a sign of anything dire in and of itself. You don't have to look at them all.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:55 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:55 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Imagine this: a friend of yours (let's say a man) decides to take an intense, year-long Master's program and internship to become a teacher.
Or decides to go to through inpatient treatment for substance abuse, something he's been thinking about doing for a decade.
Or gets really into meditation, does a retreat for a month and then starts reading books on Zen, and talks endlessly about how their life has completely changed for the better.
Or takes a 6-month cooking course because he wants to change careers and become a chef.
Or moves to a foreign country and has a super intense expat experience.
This friend is living and breathing his intense program/experience. He's busy from dawn to dusk with activities, homework, interacting with the other students/patients/whatever. He's throwing himself whole-heartedly into this new thing that he was really amped about. He doesn't have much time to think about anything else and he's a little insufferable with his constant talk about his new program, but he really, really wants to connect with you, his old dear friend, about this wild experience and share how it's going. He reaches out and occasionally asks how you're doing, but tends to go on at length about his program when given the chance, which can get a little old.
OK, thought experiment over. This sort of thing (all of the examples above, actually) has happened to many friends of mine, male and female. People have intense phases, they go in deep for a while, they can be a little bit insufferable with the level of detail they provide. You may or may not share their fascination. This definitely creates different "seasons" in a friendship.
I know that there are some women who take on motherhood as an identity to the exclusion of other identities - well at least I've heard that. I don't know any. I didn't. But it's a very, very, very intense time, early on, and there's a lot of frankly insulting talk about women shamefully letting themselves get too "into" motherhood, or not being blase enough about it, or being too excited to realize that other people don't want to see boring pictures of their baby. I don't see nearly as much of this judgment applied to men and women-who-are-not-new-mothers as they go through intense interests, obsessions, new life experiences, and so on. Women who are really into their babies, or whose lives revolve around baby care in the early months, or who do not take time away for themselves, are not by ANY MEANS falling down some kind of limited mommy hole, never to return. This is a pretty toxic myth. And if they are wrapped up in the experience, do not assume they aren't thinking deeply about it, what it means, how it is changing them or not changing them. It's an intense time, like many others in life, and living it intensely isn't a failure to maintain one's selfhood.
The truth is that babies change every day, and that a boring picture of a baby on day 23 can look very different to the parent than a boring picture of the baby on day 27. Honestly! When I look back at pictures from my toddler's infancy I can't even remember what was so notable about them sometimes, so I understand where you're coming from. I think that perhaps, the best way to cut through the barrage of pictures is to ask how Baby has changed. How has that changed Friend's life? What does she think about that?
There's a lot to be said about motherhood that isn't just boring details about feeding and pooping. There's a lot of that to be sure, but there's so much to think about and reflect on, and so much that's worth talking about even if you don't care whether baby burped or laughed or wore size 6m shirts or whatever.
posted by Cygnet at 8:56 AM on December 21, 2015 [51 favorites]
Or decides to go to through inpatient treatment for substance abuse, something he's been thinking about doing for a decade.
Or gets really into meditation, does a retreat for a month and then starts reading books on Zen, and talks endlessly about how their life has completely changed for the better.
Or takes a 6-month cooking course because he wants to change careers and become a chef.
Or moves to a foreign country and has a super intense expat experience.
This friend is living and breathing his intense program/experience. He's busy from dawn to dusk with activities, homework, interacting with the other students/patients/whatever. He's throwing himself whole-heartedly into this new thing that he was really amped about. He doesn't have much time to think about anything else and he's a little insufferable with his constant talk about his new program, but he really, really wants to connect with you, his old dear friend, about this wild experience and share how it's going. He reaches out and occasionally asks how you're doing, but tends to go on at length about his program when given the chance, which can get a little old.
OK, thought experiment over. This sort of thing (all of the examples above, actually) has happened to many friends of mine, male and female. People have intense phases, they go in deep for a while, they can be a little bit insufferable with the level of detail they provide. You may or may not share their fascination. This definitely creates different "seasons" in a friendship.
I know that there are some women who take on motherhood as an identity to the exclusion of other identities - well at least I've heard that. I don't know any. I didn't. But it's a very, very, very intense time, early on, and there's a lot of frankly insulting talk about women shamefully letting themselves get too "into" motherhood, or not being blase enough about it, or being too excited to realize that other people don't want to see boring pictures of their baby. I don't see nearly as much of this judgment applied to men and women-who-are-not-new-mothers as they go through intense interests, obsessions, new life experiences, and so on. Women who are really into their babies, or whose lives revolve around baby care in the early months, or who do not take time away for themselves, are not by ANY MEANS falling down some kind of limited mommy hole, never to return. This is a pretty toxic myth. And if they are wrapped up in the experience, do not assume they aren't thinking deeply about it, what it means, how it is changing them or not changing them. It's an intense time, like many others in life, and living it intensely isn't a failure to maintain one's selfhood.
The truth is that babies change every day, and that a boring picture of a baby on day 23 can look very different to the parent than a boring picture of the baby on day 27. Honestly! When I look back at pictures from my toddler's infancy I can't even remember what was so notable about them sometimes, so I understand where you're coming from. I think that perhaps, the best way to cut through the barrage of pictures is to ask how Baby has changed. How has that changed Friend's life? What does she think about that?
There's a lot to be said about motherhood that isn't just boring details about feeding and pooping. There's a lot of that to be sure, but there's so much to think about and reflect on, and so much that's worth talking about even if you don't care whether baby burped or laughed or wore size 6m shirts or whatever.
posted by Cygnet at 8:56 AM on December 21, 2015 [51 favorites]
Best answer: I have a dog. She's very adorable. I take pictures of her every day. I would post them onto FB everyday as well. But I don't, because I consider that would be rude and intrusive to other people, so I refrain. She is welcome to do what she likes, never go out again, put 100% of her energy for the next 18 years on her child. That's none of your business. But when people add you to their groups without your permission, that is poor etiquette. Baby or not. When people want you to look at some thing over and over (baby, dog, the Grand Canyon), you can absolutely tell them you are not interested. Nicely would be best, of course.
She has a new obsession, good for her, but you do not need to have it take up your time as well. Indulging her is fine, but if it crosses your boundary enough to post here, then it seems a bit out of balance.
I 'think' there is still a setting that allows you to choose 'show me fewer posts like this'. That might be a good compromise.
posted by Vaike at 8:56 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
She has a new obsession, good for her, but you do not need to have it take up your time as well. Indulging her is fine, but if it crosses your boundary enough to post here, then it seems a bit out of balance.
I 'think' there is still a setting that allows you to choose 'show me fewer posts like this'. That might be a good compromise.
posted by Vaike at 8:56 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is any measure of your friend's behavior attributable to the lack of adult interaction, particularly outside the radius of the baby? Consider whether that's a vector in which to engage her both now in immediate baby-is-everything-ness and months down the road when the pitocin wears off and she's tired and cranky and never wants to see another damned cutesy teething ring. I know that in our case, Empress S. appreciated when she could go out and not be mommy, even for an hour. You may not be able to like 7 bajillion baby pics, and I think that's fine. Do keep her in mind when she'd like to maybe have an adult conversation that's NOT about diapers.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 9:04 AM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 9:04 AM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
100 pictures/videos a month is not that much in the era of digital photography. I have easily the same number of pictures of my own kids as babies, it is very easy to keep clicking. Some people edit and cull before sharing with others, lots don't. For all the pictures I've taken of my kids, I've only shared, maybe, 10? If you were judging my parenting life by my presence on social media you might think I wasn't into my kids. It's just best to assume that you never have the complete picture.
Also, date night is totally overrated when you're not getting enough sleep.
posted by stowaway at 9:05 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, date night is totally overrated when you're not getting enough sleep.
posted by stowaway at 9:05 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
If this is her first baby, then you can also factor in the "ooh, new and exciting" angle. Anytime anyone does something for the first time, every detail about it is fascinating because it is the very first time they've ever seen it, and so it is blowing their mind.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:19 AM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:19 AM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hi! I am child-free by choice, but I just LOVE when friends and family have babies and I specifically request to be added to the grandparent-level distribution of photos. That means I get everything. I don't feel the need to look at every single one or comment on every little thing, but I do look at the great majority of the posts.
As for the night out stuff, a lot of new parents prefer not to rush out for date night. They are either nervous about being away from baby, don't prefer to be away from baby, or are trying to manage things like breastfeeding and/or trying to catch up on rest or sleep (keep the dream alive!). If you want to encourage a date night, you could send them a gift certificate for their favorite take-out place and that way they can have a relaxing night in and dinner is taken care of.
But, yes, I agree with the majority above. This is completely normal, try to manage your own exposure without putting a burden on them, and know that they're just excited and that things will calm down after a while. Eventually, people being available for date night babysitting will make for a fantastic treat for them.
posted by quince at 9:30 AM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
As for the night out stuff, a lot of new parents prefer not to rush out for date night. They are either nervous about being away from baby, don't prefer to be away from baby, or are trying to manage things like breastfeeding and/or trying to catch up on rest or sleep (keep the dream alive!). If you want to encourage a date night, you could send them a gift certificate for their favorite take-out place and that way they can have a relaxing night in and dinner is taken care of.
But, yes, I agree with the majority above. This is completely normal, try to manage your own exposure without putting a burden on them, and know that they're just excited and that things will calm down after a while. Eventually, people being available for date night babysitting will make for a fantastic treat for them.
posted by quince at 9:30 AM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
My friend does this - I replied to one with a picture of our pet bird. The volume significantly reduced!
posted by Dorothea_in_Rome at 9:35 AM on December 21, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by Dorothea_in_Rome at 9:35 AM on December 21, 2015 [14 favorites]
For the shared photo album, just...don't look at it that often? I think you can unfollow on Facebook and just check in occasionally when you want to, or if this is on some other platform, just go log in whenever you are in the mood. If your friend really is pressuring you to somehow look every single day, then have a conversation about that, but otherwise just do your thing and occasionally click "like." Similarly, on the group thread you don't have to reply EVERY SINGLE TIME. I have a good friend who is constantly g-chatting me links to random funny videos and articles. If I have time and am in the mood, I will click through and say something about it; if not, I don't, and it is completely fine. Again, no need to make this a conflict unless your friend says something, in which case you can say something gentle and vague like 'Oh, I know, I've been trying to stay less attached to my phone, you know?"
For the phone calls, I think you can have an explicit conversation with your friend along the lines of "I love you, and I love talking to you, but I am not a huge video call fan. Could we alternate or do the video thing once a month, and phone calls the rest of the time?
And finally, I do think it's possbile your friend is feeling a bit socially isolated, since it sounds like she is in a new city where she may not know a lot of people, plus is not working or going to school where she would start to form a new social network. If you have the ability, I might buy a gift certificate to an age-appropriate mommy-baby thing. Friends of mine have raved about mommy-baby yoga classes, and you can take quite small infants to them. Not sure on the age at which music classes become appropriate, but you could look into it. Any of this sort of thing would help your friend make new mom friends that she has life-stage things in common with, without the pressure to go out without the baby (if this is not something she wants right now).
posted by rainbowbrite at 9:41 AM on December 21, 2015
For the phone calls, I think you can have an explicit conversation with your friend along the lines of "I love you, and I love talking to you, but I am not a huge video call fan. Could we alternate or do the video thing once a month, and phone calls the rest of the time?
And finally, I do think it's possbile your friend is feeling a bit socially isolated, since it sounds like she is in a new city where she may not know a lot of people, plus is not working or going to school where she would start to form a new social network. If you have the ability, I might buy a gift certificate to an age-appropriate mommy-baby thing. Friends of mine have raved about mommy-baby yoga classes, and you can take quite small infants to them. Not sure on the age at which music classes become appropriate, but you could look into it. Any of this sort of thing would help your friend make new mom friends that she has life-stage things in common with, without the pressure to go out without the baby (if this is not something she wants right now).
posted by rainbowbrite at 9:41 AM on December 21, 2015
I am also a bit concerned, although it's not my life, that she and her husband haven't taken any time for just themselves. Even an evening out for a few hours at dinner or a movie hasn't happened.
When we were going through the new-baby months, going out as a couple for dinner and a movie went from the fun evening together it used to be to a major, tiring operation. Like, I'm exhausted to the point of hallucinating and just about keeping my head above water, and now I'm supposed to book a restaurant, get dressed up in the clothes that probably don't fit me any more, sort out a sitter I am happy to leave my kid with for an evening (which is a whole complicated minefield in and of itself for various reasons, even if your friend has family offering - my family are lovely, but some would have struggled to cope with three hours of a yelling bad-tempered baby, others came from a different generation's parenting expectations and would absolutely have done things like force-feed mashed potato to my too-young-for-solids kid because obviously you're starving her!, etc etc etc), get ready while juggling the baby, pump milk, stay up way past my usual bedtime, and generally be a glamorous scintillating conversation partner for the evening, all to perform the societal expectation of Functioning Adult Couple? It felt like yet another chore and I had had enough of chores.
So we much preferred to spend our limited time/energy/money on something we would both actually enjoy as a couple, which at the time was mostly staying in, ordering pizza, and watching West Wing after the baby was in bed.
Let your friend find what works for her in the moment, and don't assume that her new normal will be her new forever.
posted by Catseye at 10:13 AM on December 21, 2015 [37 favorites]
When we were going through the new-baby months, going out as a couple for dinner and a movie went from the fun evening together it used to be to a major, tiring operation. Like, I'm exhausted to the point of hallucinating and just about keeping my head above water, and now I'm supposed to book a restaurant, get dressed up in the clothes that probably don't fit me any more, sort out a sitter I am happy to leave my kid with for an evening (which is a whole complicated minefield in and of itself for various reasons, even if your friend has family offering - my family are lovely, but some would have struggled to cope with three hours of a yelling bad-tempered baby, others came from a different generation's parenting expectations and would absolutely have done things like force-feed mashed potato to my too-young-for-solids kid because obviously you're starving her!, etc etc etc), get ready while juggling the baby, pump milk, stay up way past my usual bedtime, and generally be a glamorous scintillating conversation partner for the evening, all to perform the societal expectation of Functioning Adult Couple? It felt like yet another chore and I had had enough of chores.
So we much preferred to spend our limited time/energy/money on something we would both actually enjoy as a couple, which at the time was mostly staying in, ordering pizza, and watching West Wing after the baby was in bed.
Let your friend find what works for her in the moment, and don't assume that her new normal will be her new forever.
posted by Catseye at 10:13 AM on December 21, 2015 [37 favorites]
100 pictures a month is nothing. Nothing. You can take 100 pictures a day with your phone and not break a sweat. This is pretty much the new normal.
Now, no one is going to be as interested in your baby as you are, excluding maybe grandparents or close family. That doesn't mean the urge to share isn't there: you BUILT A HUMAN WHO DOES THINGS, it's awesome! Well done!
This is just to say that a) her behavior is totally normal and not at all a cause for concern, lack of nights out included and b) your lack of interest is also totally normal and not a cause for concern: just smile because she thought of you and move on.
posted by lydhre at 10:22 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Now, no one is going to be as interested in your baby as you are, excluding maybe grandparents or close family. That doesn't mean the urge to share isn't there: you BUILT A HUMAN WHO DOES THINGS, it's awesome! Well done!
This is just to say that a) her behavior is totally normal and not at all a cause for concern, lack of nights out included and b) your lack of interest is also totally normal and not a cause for concern: just smile because she thought of you and move on.
posted by lydhre at 10:22 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
If any of this baby barrage is on Facebook or Twitter, maybe try rather? It used to be unbaby.me, and it used to just replace baby posts with pictures of cats, but apparently it's expanded its horizons over the years.
posted by DingoMutt at 10:34 AM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by DingoMutt at 10:34 AM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
- babies change and do new things every day! This is exciting! Unfortunately, it's only really visible to the parents, no matter how many pictures share.
- babies and lack of sleep make you brain dead and stuck on the subject of babies. Your brain doesn't have the capacity for other stuff. Your friend is doing her best to connect, but right now she does not have other interests.
- it is rare that new moms make a weekly effort to connect with childfree friends and it means that you're important to her. Very!
- it gets better. We know we're a bit boring during that phase and we value friends that stick with us despite that.
posted by Omnomnom at 10:39 AM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
- babies and lack of sleep make you brain dead and stuck on the subject of babies. Your brain doesn't have the capacity for other stuff. Your friend is doing her best to connect, but right now she does not have other interests.
- it is rare that new moms make a weekly effort to connect with childfree friends and it means that you're important to her. Very!
- it gets better. We know we're a bit boring during that phase and we value friends that stick with us despite that.
posted by Omnomnom at 10:39 AM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I heartily agree with everything Cygnet said upthread.
Also, I wouldn't assume she is starved for adult interaction (unless she says she is). As a stay-at-home mom I spoke with other adults every day at music classes, the Y, parks, community center, the library. As Cygnet says, it's an intense experience, and bonding, and it's great sharing stories/questions/anecdotes with other parents. Or just shooting the shit and meeting new friends while the baby is in the swing at the park or whatever. I didn't find it an isolating experience at all.
posted by JenMarie at 10:49 AM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, I wouldn't assume she is starved for adult interaction (unless she says she is). As a stay-at-home mom I spoke with other adults every day at music classes, the Y, parks, community center, the library. As Cygnet says, it's an intense experience, and bonding, and it's great sharing stories/questions/anecdotes with other parents. Or just shooting the shit and meeting new friends while the baby is in the swing at the park or whatever. I didn't find it an isolating experience at all.
posted by JenMarie at 10:49 AM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also strongly agree with everything Cygnet says, and also think you may be wildly overestimating ease of use of social media/cell phones etc with a baby and everything else going on in your friend's life.
My experience of small baby/intercity move/lots of other stuff going on was baby photos were shared either via unfiltered photo dump for out of town grandparents or a couple photos via cards/on my phone when we ran into each other. Personally curating various feeds for different levels of closeness and interest was not high on my list of priorities - it takes a lot of freaking time and a lot of learning the ever changing quirks of these services. I did not judge anyone for opting out of the grandbaby-a-thon.
Also voice calls were a total pain, text messages were not great in the grabby phase. Consider the possibility that your friend is focusing the baby on the video chat to distract her from anything else she might do with an expensive fragile device that was designed to stimulate and draw attention to itself.
This is all stuff I've heard other parents complain about too - with a side order of mysogynist guilt thrown at the mothers for not prioritizing communicating with adult friends in those friends' preferred fashion over sleep, food, taking care of the baby, getting to spend time with their partner, etc.
posted by sputzie at 11:09 AM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
My experience of small baby/intercity move/lots of other stuff going on was baby photos were shared either via unfiltered photo dump for out of town grandparents or a couple photos via cards/on my phone when we ran into each other. Personally curating various feeds for different levels of closeness and interest was not high on my list of priorities - it takes a lot of freaking time and a lot of learning the ever changing quirks of these services. I did not judge anyone for opting out of the grandbaby-a-thon.
Also voice calls were a total pain, text messages were not great in the grabby phase. Consider the possibility that your friend is focusing the baby on the video chat to distract her from anything else she might do with an expensive fragile device that was designed to stimulate and draw attention to itself.
This is all stuff I've heard other parents complain about too - with a side order of mysogynist guilt thrown at the mothers for not prioritizing communicating with adult friends in those friends' preferred fashion over sleep, food, taking care of the baby, getting to spend time with their partner, etc.
posted by sputzie at 11:09 AM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
Cygnet and others are so wise here, and Catseye is right about the complications of "a night out." We just used a non-family babysitter for the first time this week and my daughter is nearly two. She's finally to the point with breastfeeding where someone else can give her some chicken nuggets instead (she never took a bottle) and my boobs don't hurt or leak if I'm gone for a few hours. Back in the early days, I could never really understand why people were encouraging me to take time away from my baby, which was both physically and emotionally uncomfortable. It felt very condescending and clueless when people didn't understand that.
She tries video calls for conversations once a week. I don't particularly love video calls for a variety of reasons, and the purpose always seems to be just so she can show us her baby. I'd be happy to do that every once in a while, these calls come in once a week and I usually end up calling her over the phone instead. She doesn't insist on video calls verbally, but it's her #1 go to for a conversation
I just want to say that this might get worse as her child gets older before it gets better. During the day, it's very difficult to divert my child's attention when I'm on the phone. A young toddler needs intermittent distraction and engagement, even if they're fairly self sufficient. A long phone conversation while she's awake might mean a temper tantrum. A long phone conversation while she's asleep means that I'm using my very valuable and precious solitary time which would otherwise be spent doing my own creative work, cleaning our hot mess house, or (and here I had to take a ten minute break from writing this to nurse my daughter and talk to her about the birds in our bird feeder) god forbid read a book or something. A google hangout or skype chat is great because it engages and involves the kid, too. Otherwise, when someone wants to have a long phone chat I kind of feel like--can you provide some babysitting for me so I can focus on you? Otherwise, things are going to be a little subdivided and distracted. It's bad enough when I have to call our insurance company during business hours or whatever. Social phone calls are close to impossible with a small person once they get out of the larva stage.
Maybe try IMs to chat instead? My closest sustained relationships during my daughter's infancy and toddlerhood have been maintained through gchat. The ability to leave and come back to a conversation is huge.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:12 AM on December 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
She tries video calls for conversations once a week. I don't particularly love video calls for a variety of reasons, and the purpose always seems to be just so she can show us her baby. I'd be happy to do that every once in a while, these calls come in once a week and I usually end up calling her over the phone instead. She doesn't insist on video calls verbally, but it's her #1 go to for a conversation
I just want to say that this might get worse as her child gets older before it gets better. During the day, it's very difficult to divert my child's attention when I'm on the phone. A young toddler needs intermittent distraction and engagement, even if they're fairly self sufficient. A long phone conversation while she's awake might mean a temper tantrum. A long phone conversation while she's asleep means that I'm using my very valuable and precious solitary time which would otherwise be spent doing my own creative work, cleaning our hot mess house, or (and here I had to take a ten minute break from writing this to nurse my daughter and talk to her about the birds in our bird feeder) god forbid read a book or something. A google hangout or skype chat is great because it engages and involves the kid, too. Otherwise, when someone wants to have a long phone chat I kind of feel like--can you provide some babysitting for me so I can focus on you? Otherwise, things are going to be a little subdivided and distracted. It's bad enough when I have to call our insurance company during business hours or whatever. Social phone calls are close to impossible with a small person once they get out of the larva stage.
Maybe try IMs to chat instead? My closest sustained relationships during my daughter's infancy and toddlerhood have been maintained through gchat. The ability to leave and come back to a conversation is huge.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:12 AM on December 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
Cygnet's right, but I don't know about the thought experiment. All those other people would rightly be considered rude, self-obsessed bores. We make exceptions for mothers because having and tending to a new baby is special in many ways. There are wonders in that work - to be sure! - and subtle changes, and it's lovely to get a peek in (and if a mom will let you hold or smell their baby [they smell like cookies to me], you may find your feelings about it change). But these little shifts and miracles and the insights that go along with them aren't obvious to onlookers, certainly not from photographs. They're usually private. So charges of misogyny - especially re people who haven't had or been around babies - are a little misguided, imo. People miss their friends, you know? It's hard to understand what's going on from the outside, and the fatigue and overwhelm of early parenthood are easily underestimated, until you have an idea about it. It's often just a question of lacking knowledge about it.
So, 2nd making allowances, and asking about those shifts and changes, because they are pretty cool, really. (Def smell a baby [top end] if you can, that will help.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:32 AM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, 2nd making allowances, and asking about those shifts and changes, because they are pretty cool, really. (Def smell a baby [top end] if you can, that will help.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:32 AM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am positive that people get tired of seeing my endless posts, pictures, etc of my kid on social media especially.
I do not care. I just cannot care. He is the center of my world. At 4 years old, this feeling only grows. You will know this feeling if you ever have children, I am sure of it.
My advice is to ignore it, much like the above.
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 11:46 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
I do not care. I just cannot care. He is the center of my world. At 4 years old, this feeling only grows. You will know this feeling if you ever have children, I am sure of it.
My advice is to ignore it, much like the above.
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 11:46 AM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
I just checked my hard drive and apparently I took 700 pictures of my first baby in his first three months. And I'm not even that picturey! It's just so easy with a smartphone.
My second baby did not sleep through the night until ELEVEN MONTHS. I fed him TEN TIMES A DAY until he was 11 months old. All I wanted to do was eat high-calorie food, sleep, and have NOBODY TOUCH ME EVERY AGAIN because there was a BABY hanging off of me at all hours. If forced out on a date night, I would have a) resented wearing pants and b) fallen asleep face-down at the table in the soup. (Then probably eaten two entrees and most of a third, because do you know how many calories it takes to produce TEN FEEDINGS every day for eleven months?)
I'm pretty relaxed about leaving my kids with non-family sitters, but it's just SO MUCH HASSLE. I end up spending five hours getting ready for the baby to stay with a sitter so that I can spend two hours "out," and I'm tired and stressed before I even go and it's just not really any fun. Our "date nights" consisted of getting into a few TV shows we both liked and could stare semi-mindlessly at after the baby was asleep so that the sleep deprivation and desire not to leave the house didn't get in the way of enjoying some time together. We're not big TV people but after each baby we've ended up hooked on a particular show as our way to have together time. I realize it's pretty lame, but lots of things about parenting are lame. :)
This is more personal, but -- with one of my kids, we found out when he was a little older that he has some developmental problems. When he was a baby, he was a very high-need baby, and people kept urging us to take some time away, take some time for ourselves, it's good for you and for the baby! But it was so HARD, and so disruptive, and threw everything so far out of whack every time we did it that we stopped trying. And people kept chiding me for not taking time away from him and being too ... overprotective? or too self-denying, because I was EXHAUSTED and I did desperately need a break. With the benefit of hindsight and a diagnosis, we can see how that I really just COULDN'T be away from him because he was not developmentally normal and he coped very poorly when I was away and then we'd have a week of absolutely nightmarish recovering from the disruption. It really didn't help that people kept acting like I was some kind of overprotective nutjob helicopter parent, especially when I desperately wanted time to myself but it just WASN'T WORKING and we didn't know why. It WOULD have helped to have friends come over and help me clean my house or do my dishes or bring me a dinner. I was just so, so tired, and since time away from the baby was impossible, it ended up being "time away from having a house that humans can live in without risk of tetanus." But just to say -- you don't know what's going on for them, and especially since it's a) a pre-verbal baby and b) their first, THEY may not know what's going on. NOW I can look back and say "that was not normal" but at the time I didn't know that, and the pediatrician didn't know that (she thought he was intense, but within normal variation), and his grandma didn't know that and we just had no way of knowing that we were coping as best as we could with a child who had unusual needs that he could not express, and that it was unusually stressful and hard.
It is a tough time and you're sweet to worry about them. It's a hard adjustment and it can be all-consuming and you miss the version of you who could follow plots above the YA novel level. But there's not really a lot of ways to do it without drowning in it, and babies do grow and it does pass and your friend will be more herself after a while.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:34 PM on December 21, 2015 [12 favorites]
My second baby did not sleep through the night until ELEVEN MONTHS. I fed him TEN TIMES A DAY until he was 11 months old. All I wanted to do was eat high-calorie food, sleep, and have NOBODY TOUCH ME EVERY AGAIN because there was a BABY hanging off of me at all hours. If forced out on a date night, I would have a) resented wearing pants and b) fallen asleep face-down at the table in the soup. (Then probably eaten two entrees and most of a third, because do you know how many calories it takes to produce TEN FEEDINGS every day for eleven months?)
I'm pretty relaxed about leaving my kids with non-family sitters, but it's just SO MUCH HASSLE. I end up spending five hours getting ready for the baby to stay with a sitter so that I can spend two hours "out," and I'm tired and stressed before I even go and it's just not really any fun. Our "date nights" consisted of getting into a few TV shows we both liked and could stare semi-mindlessly at after the baby was asleep so that the sleep deprivation and desire not to leave the house didn't get in the way of enjoying some time together. We're not big TV people but after each baby we've ended up hooked on a particular show as our way to have together time. I realize it's pretty lame, but lots of things about parenting are lame. :)
This is more personal, but -- with one of my kids, we found out when he was a little older that he has some developmental problems. When he was a baby, he was a very high-need baby, and people kept urging us to take some time away, take some time for ourselves, it's good for you and for the baby! But it was so HARD, and so disruptive, and threw everything so far out of whack every time we did it that we stopped trying. And people kept chiding me for not taking time away from him and being too ... overprotective? or too self-denying, because I was EXHAUSTED and I did desperately need a break. With the benefit of hindsight and a diagnosis, we can see how that I really just COULDN'T be away from him because he was not developmentally normal and he coped very poorly when I was away and then we'd have a week of absolutely nightmarish recovering from the disruption. It really didn't help that people kept acting like I was some kind of overprotective nutjob helicopter parent, especially when I desperately wanted time to myself but it just WASN'T WORKING and we didn't know why. It WOULD have helped to have friends come over and help me clean my house or do my dishes or bring me a dinner. I was just so, so tired, and since time away from the baby was impossible, it ended up being "time away from having a house that humans can live in without risk of tetanus." But just to say -- you don't know what's going on for them, and especially since it's a) a pre-verbal baby and b) their first, THEY may not know what's going on. NOW I can look back and say "that was not normal" but at the time I didn't know that, and the pediatrician didn't know that (she thought he was intense, but within normal variation), and his grandma didn't know that and we just had no way of knowing that we were coping as best as we could with a child who had unusual needs that he could not express, and that it was unusually stressful and hard.
It is a tough time and you're sweet to worry about them. It's a hard adjustment and it can be all-consuming and you miss the version of you who could follow plots above the YA novel level. But there's not really a lot of ways to do it without drowning in it, and babies do grow and it does pass and your friend will be more herself after a while.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:34 PM on December 21, 2015 [12 favorites]
Totally normal. She's deprived of her normal adult friends group, and is probably bored to tears and elated beyond belief (often in the same moment) and taking and sharing photos is a way to alleviate that. You've marked best answers the ones that explain that the best, so I won't belabor the point.
But in terms of the video calls, think of it this way: she might be going days without seeing another adult besides her husband. She is hungry to see people who know how to focus their eyes correctly. It's also much easier to do a video call using a web cam than talk on the phone, since then her hands are free to deal with the baby. I would love to have a simple phone conversation, but it's simply beyond my capacity with an infant.
Whether her reaction to having a baby is healthy or not, and whether she and her husband are taking time for themselves, aren't really your calls to make. They're in a new city and they might not have been able to find childcare they trust (and as lovely as your family might be, they're not her family). Heck, even if they were, they might not have a baby that reacts well to being with anyone else - and it's impossible to enjoy yourself if you know that your child is screaming the entire time you're gone, even if the care is the best in the world - even if the caregiver is the other parent!
She's doing a lot to try to connect with people during what might be a very lonely time in her life. You don't have to look at the pictures or participate in video calls if you don't want to, but it sounds like you really don't understand what a fundamental shift parenthood can be - it's not like getting a pet or even getting married; it's like being abducted by aliens and assigned a new job in a different field all in the same day. I'd click "like" on a few photos a week, chat with her when you feel up to it, and try to be patient with this phase of her new life.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 2:06 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
But in terms of the video calls, think of it this way: she might be going days without seeing another adult besides her husband. She is hungry to see people who know how to focus their eyes correctly. It's also much easier to do a video call using a web cam than talk on the phone, since then her hands are free to deal with the baby. I would love to have a simple phone conversation, but it's simply beyond my capacity with an infant.
Whether her reaction to having a baby is healthy or not, and whether she and her husband are taking time for themselves, aren't really your calls to make. They're in a new city and they might not have been able to find childcare they trust (and as lovely as your family might be, they're not her family). Heck, even if they were, they might not have a baby that reacts well to being with anyone else - and it's impossible to enjoy yourself if you know that your child is screaming the entire time you're gone, even if the care is the best in the world - even if the caregiver is the other parent!
She's doing a lot to try to connect with people during what might be a very lonely time in her life. You don't have to look at the pictures or participate in video calls if you don't want to, but it sounds like you really don't understand what a fundamental shift parenthood can be - it's not like getting a pet or even getting married; it's like being abducted by aliens and assigned a new job in a different field all in the same day. I'd click "like" on a few photos a week, chat with her when you feel up to it, and try to be patient with this phase of her new life.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 2:06 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
We have since been drowning in baby pictures sent every 1-3 days, and it's getting to be a bit much. Have you experienced this before and how did you deal with it?
Are you not on Facebook, or is this the first friend who has had a baby, or what? Because this sounds like completely normal new mother behavior to me.
Just ignore the new photo notifications.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:30 PM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Are you not on Facebook, or is this the first friend who has had a baby, or what? Because this sounds like completely normal new mother behavior to me.
Just ignore the new photo notifications.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:30 PM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's true, video chat on a laptop is way easier when you're dealing with a baby than holding a phone to one's ear. You can always tell her your web cam is acting up and just click audio only for yourself (or even just say "hey sorry can't do video right now".) She's not calling because she really thinks you want to see the baby; she's calling because she's lonely and misses her friends. Don't cut her off.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:32 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:32 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have a happy, well-behaved 13 month old. Every time she's had to have someone who is not a parent put her to bed, there has been drama. (Saturday night was crying nonstop til 12:30 AM, poor babysitter) I feel guilty leaving her with a babysitter because not only am I deciding my social life is worth not just the cost of what I'm doing but also the babysitter, I'm also deciding to inflict suffering on the babysitter. And yes, I'm paying them, but still. I feel bad. So while my husband and I happily go out alone while the other is home with her, both of us out at the same time is a Big Deal. And this is a baby who has no developmental issues, separation anxiety, or other challenges! Yes, it is good and healthy to get away. No, it's not always possible to do when and how other people think you ought to do it. Be patient.
posted by olinerd at 5:39 PM on December 21, 2015
posted by olinerd at 5:39 PM on December 21, 2015
At 100 photos a month, that's only 3-4 a day. Hate to break it to you, but that's not even all that many. Sounds well within the normal range to me. If you don't do video or video calls, say so. Heck, I don't do phone much anymore, preferring Messenger or texting, so I limit calls with my best friend - because she'll talk for hours. Literally. I didn't mind so much ten years ago, but these days, it's exhausting.
posted by stormyteal at 7:11 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by stormyteal at 7:11 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't have a baby, and I love getting baby pictures. But you could use your filters to turn it off or just dodge video calls and cite being busy.
She's having a very human experience. Some people hate getting photos, some just love it. I don't think you need to do anything but shut off filters or do whatever you need to to shut off notifications.
posted by discopolo at 8:57 PM on December 21, 2015
She's having a very human experience. Some people hate getting photos, some just love it. I don't think you need to do anything but shut off filters or do whatever you need to to shut off notifications.
posted by discopolo at 8:57 PM on December 21, 2015
Nthing that this is all totally normal.
Can your family start off by coming over and cleaning/doing dishes/laundry? Maybe if your friends feel comfortable with them, your family could watch the baby while they take a nap. Leaving a new baby with someone else is a really big deal to a new parent. Plus exhaustion. We had various family members visiting for cumulatively 8 weeks this summer and I think we only managed to go out twice.
posted by betsybetsy at 9:19 PM on December 21, 2015
Can your family start off by coming over and cleaning/doing dishes/laundry? Maybe if your friends feel comfortable with them, your family could watch the baby while they take a nap. Leaving a new baby with someone else is a really big deal to a new parent. Plus exhaustion. We had various family members visiting for cumulatively 8 weeks this summer and I think we only managed to go out twice.
posted by betsybetsy at 9:19 PM on December 21, 2015
If you're really concerned about her, you could try:
(A) initiating some interactions, both so she knows you care and she isn't having to do all the work, and so you can frame it in the context of something that interests YOU. Texting to say "what do you think about [non-baby interest you share]" could make for better conversations for you.
(B) gift her something useful, such as a house cleaner or a gift card for takeout or some such. If she's in a new place without social support, she could probably use help with those things.
(C) maintain contact. You fear she's lonely; don't make her more so by backing away even though she's boring right now.
posted by metasarah at 12:30 PM on December 22, 2015
(A) initiating some interactions, both so she knows you care and she isn't having to do all the work, and so you can frame it in the context of something that interests YOU. Texting to say "what do you think about [non-baby interest you share]" could make for better conversations for you.
(B) gift her something useful, such as a house cleaner or a gift card for takeout or some such. If she's in a new place without social support, she could probably use help with those things.
(C) maintain contact. You fear she's lonely; don't make her more so by backing away even though she's boring right now.
posted by metasarah at 12:30 PM on December 22, 2015
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posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:16 AM on December 21, 2015 [13 favorites]