Interstate Intervention?
November 3, 2015 7:04 AM Subscribe
The shit has hit the fan. The plane has crashed into the mountain. My out-of-town sister needs help for her drinking, depression and anxiety above and beyond what her loved ones or twice-a-week therapy can provide. Since interventions don't work, how do I get her the help she needs?
My sister has been exhibiting some scary self-destructive and suicidal behavior lately, has not been going to work, and will be evicted from her apartment by year end (her landlord called me about this yesterday). We need to get her the hell out of there and into some kind of rehab or mental health program to save her life. A complicating factor is that she is a 2-3 hour flight away from her family and friends. I'm willing to fly to her city today, and I have a cousin who may be willing to go with me if she can get childcare. My husband and I are cash poor right now for reasons but there may be another family member who's able to help with rehab expenses. She has a car and an apartment full of stuff but we still have a waiting period before eviction to deal with that.
This period of acute depression was triggered by a breakup. She cannot stop talking about how perfect her ex was and how sub-par she is and how her life won't ever be what she wants it to be now. Originally, my husband and I were trying to get her quit her job and move in with us for awhile to figure things out. Her response was lukewarm, along the lines of, "I'll think about it." It's clear now that this alone will not provide her with the help she needs, anyway.
So:
1. Is it a good idea to go alone, or should I have in-person backup? Husband can't go with me because someone needs to care for our 3 month old. This could mean curtains for my milk supply but it's a life-or-death situation here.
2. How do I talk to her about this once I'm there?
3. Logistically, what's the best plan? I realize AskMeFi may not be able to help with this, but I'm trying to determine whether I should just show up, get her in a cab with me, and take us right to the airport, or stop at a hotel and have a talk with her, or what. Her behavior swings between normal and erratic these days.
4. What do I tell the folks at her job, if she won't communicate with them? She hates her job, but I don't want to screw her over for the next one.
5. Her support system (family, friends) is in western Washington. Resources there?
Insights from anyone who's gone through something like this from either perspective would be extremely helpful. Don't sugar coat it. Thanks.
My sister has been exhibiting some scary self-destructive and suicidal behavior lately, has not been going to work, and will be evicted from her apartment by year end (her landlord called me about this yesterday). We need to get her the hell out of there and into some kind of rehab or mental health program to save her life. A complicating factor is that she is a 2-3 hour flight away from her family and friends. I'm willing to fly to her city today, and I have a cousin who may be willing to go with me if she can get childcare. My husband and I are cash poor right now for reasons but there may be another family member who's able to help with rehab expenses. She has a car and an apartment full of stuff but we still have a waiting period before eviction to deal with that.
This period of acute depression was triggered by a breakup. She cannot stop talking about how perfect her ex was and how sub-par she is and how her life won't ever be what she wants it to be now. Originally, my husband and I were trying to get her quit her job and move in with us for awhile to figure things out. Her response was lukewarm, along the lines of, "I'll think about it." It's clear now that this alone will not provide her with the help she needs, anyway.
So:
1. Is it a good idea to go alone, or should I have in-person backup? Husband can't go with me because someone needs to care for our 3 month old. This could mean curtains for my milk supply but it's a life-or-death situation here.
2. How do I talk to her about this once I'm there?
3. Logistically, what's the best plan? I realize AskMeFi may not be able to help with this, but I'm trying to determine whether I should just show up, get her in a cab with me, and take us right to the airport, or stop at a hotel and have a talk with her, or what. Her behavior swings between normal and erratic these days.
4. What do I tell the folks at her job, if she won't communicate with them? She hates her job, but I don't want to screw her over for the next one.
5. Her support system (family, friends) is in western Washington. Resources there?
Insights from anyone who's gone through something like this from either perspective would be extremely helpful. Don't sugar coat it. Thanks.
Does she qualify for short term disability or FMLA from her job? What is her health insurance situation?
posted by asockpuppet at 7:17 AM on November 3, 2015
posted by asockpuppet at 7:17 AM on November 3, 2015
I know you hate to hear this, but she is an adult and she gets to make her own choices. Rehab and inpatient mental health care will not work unless she is willing to do the hard work (most half-decent places won't even take you unless the patient is there willingly). Instead of wasting time and money on a doomed trip, use that time and money to shore up her support system for when she hits bottom (emergency movers/storage for her things, local support like lists of shelters and food banks) I would not recommend bringing her into your own home, you have a three month old child who needs to be your priority and your sister may be a safety risk (not on purpose, but drinking and mental health issues cloud good judgement). You should be in a supportive environment yourself, whether is it AlAnon or therapy or something. Your anxiety is screaming off the page and that is not healthy for you or your family and it is not going to help your sister either.
I've been where you are, and it really sucks, but you can't help someone that won't help themselves, and developing issues of your own because of how helpless you feel makes everything even worse and prevents you from offering any long-term, constructive support.
posted by saucysault at 7:20 AM on November 3, 2015 [41 favorites]
I've been where you are, and it really sucks, but you can't help someone that won't help themselves, and developing issues of your own because of how helpless you feel makes everything even worse and prevents you from offering any long-term, constructive support.
posted by saucysault at 7:20 AM on November 3, 2015 [41 favorites]
The conventional wisdom is that you can't force someone else into recovery. The reason it's conventional wisdom is because usually it's true. I am the daughter of an alcoholic who was forced into rehab many times and he died a drunk. I am also the wife of a drug addict I shipped off to rehab against his will, and subsequently he's been clean for ten years. So, although I am a longtime member of Nar-Anon, whose central tenet is that we cannot help people who don't want to help themselves, I will admit that I did it the "wrong" way, and it worked.
I also think, as somebody who loves someone who is killing themselves with drugs or alcohol, you have to try, at least once. Not necessarily because you might save her life - because I will be frank, the chances that your actions will save her are not high - but because if you don't try, you'll always wonder if you could have made a difference. I know someone, also a longtime member of Nar-Anon, who said once, "If you can think of something to try, you should try it, because then you can add it to the list of things you tried that didn't work." You need to be crystal clear about this: by finding her a rehab and sending her there, by spending this money you can't afford and taking on this responsibility which will strain your family in ways you can't yet imagine, you might well just be checking this off the list of Things I Tried That Didn't Work.
I can't tell you what to do, but I will tell you what I did: I found a rehab place online near our hometown that would take my husband, and I called his parents for help. His dad flew out here, met us at the airport, and took him to the facility. We did it this way because I was so drained that I was not capable of handling it all myself. If you want to do this, I would recommend finding someone to help you. If not your husband, a friend or some other relative. You need support. And you should accept that you aren't going to be able to plan and control all the details beforehand. It's going to be hard and messy.
And no matter what happens, don't let her live with you. Just don't. You need to take care of yourself and your family first before you can take care of someone else. Bringing your sister into your home will be chaotic and terrible for you and the rest of the people in that house. You don't have to let her move in with you. People get sober all the time without moving in with their family.
Finally! Go to Al-Anon today. Just go, and keep going. If you ignore every single other word in my post, don't ignore those! Go.
posted by something something at 7:24 AM on November 3, 2015 [34 favorites]
I also think, as somebody who loves someone who is killing themselves with drugs or alcohol, you have to try, at least once. Not necessarily because you might save her life - because I will be frank, the chances that your actions will save her are not high - but because if you don't try, you'll always wonder if you could have made a difference. I know someone, also a longtime member of Nar-Anon, who said once, "If you can think of something to try, you should try it, because then you can add it to the list of things you tried that didn't work." You need to be crystal clear about this: by finding her a rehab and sending her there, by spending this money you can't afford and taking on this responsibility which will strain your family in ways you can't yet imagine, you might well just be checking this off the list of Things I Tried That Didn't Work.
I can't tell you what to do, but I will tell you what I did: I found a rehab place online near our hometown that would take my husband, and I called his parents for help. His dad flew out here, met us at the airport, and took him to the facility. We did it this way because I was so drained that I was not capable of handling it all myself. If you want to do this, I would recommend finding someone to help you. If not your husband, a friend or some other relative. You need support. And you should accept that you aren't going to be able to plan and control all the details beforehand. It's going to be hard and messy.
And no matter what happens, don't let her live with you. Just don't. You need to take care of yourself and your family first before you can take care of someone else. Bringing your sister into your home will be chaotic and terrible for you and the rest of the people in that house. You don't have to let her move in with you. People get sober all the time without moving in with their family.
Finally! Go to Al-Anon today. Just go, and keep going. If you ignore every single other word in my post, don't ignore those! Go.
posted by something something at 7:24 AM on November 3, 2015 [34 favorites]
Can't favorite saucysault's answer enough. I've been there too.
posted by Melismata at 7:41 AM on November 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 7:41 AM on November 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would not go anywhere without a plan. Like an actual "this place is expecting us" plan. When I was in a similar situation I was naively surprised to find that the rehab places I called weren't ready to leap to my rescue! Send a car right away for him & sure we have a bed! Instead they all told me when HE was ready to get himself admitted, they would see if they had room. So if your sister doesn't want to go to rehab - and it sounds like she doesn't - she doesn't have to.
If I were you it might make me feel better to go see my sibling, stock her shelves with some food, give her a hug, talk to her about her options. But nothing you've said here indicates that she wants your help so I would be prepared to be able to do not much more than that.
posted by lyssabee at 7:43 AM on November 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
If I were you it might make me feel better to go see my sibling, stock her shelves with some food, give her a hug, talk to her about her options. But nothing you've said here indicates that she wants your help so I would be prepared to be able to do not much more than that.
posted by lyssabee at 7:43 AM on November 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
but it's a life-or-death situation here
Well, in the long term yes, but that's nothing to do with you, and this isn't actually an emergency if she isn't enough of a danger to herself to be committed involuntarily. It doesn't matter how big a sacrifice you make, including taking something away from your infant child, it's not going to force the universe to give her extra getting-sober-powers.
Even if you were a mental health professional, which you don't mention being, ethically you would not be allowed to directly treat your sister. Manage her care if she is committed or voluntarily gets into a program yes, but that's not what's happening right now. Save your plane fare for that.
You can't get her the help she needs, only the help she wants.
You can't do this for her. You can't fix things at her job or at a future job, you can't make her get on a plane against her will (that's kidnapping and personnel at airports are super not into that, and jail is the least useful place for you to be right now).
Just about all you can do is plan to get her some movers and a storage unit when she gets evicted, if you/the family member is willing to pay indefinitely for that stuff to be waiting for her if she gets her shit together.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:56 AM on November 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, in the long term yes, but that's nothing to do with you, and this isn't actually an emergency if she isn't enough of a danger to herself to be committed involuntarily. It doesn't matter how big a sacrifice you make, including taking something away from your infant child, it's not going to force the universe to give her extra getting-sober-powers.
Even if you were a mental health professional, which you don't mention being, ethically you would not be allowed to directly treat your sister. Manage her care if she is committed or voluntarily gets into a program yes, but that's not what's happening right now. Save your plane fare for that.
You can't get her the help she needs, only the help she wants.
You can't do this for her. You can't fix things at her job or at a future job, you can't make her get on a plane against her will (that's kidnapping and personnel at airports are super not into that, and jail is the least useful place for you to be right now).
Just about all you can do is plan to get her some movers and a storage unit when she gets evicted, if you/the family member is willing to pay indefinitely for that stuff to be waiting for her if she gets her shit together.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:56 AM on November 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
You cannot fly in there without a plan and actual knowledge of the resources available. Your best move is to find a crisis response hotline or service in her area, call them, and have a long chat about what may be available - are there rehabs that will take her right away if she's willing? Are there outpatient mental health programs she might be eligible for? Does the crisis team do home wellness checks and could they do one for your sister if there is an actual immediate crisis?
If you really think this is an immediate life-or-death suicidal ideation crisis (like, "I think she is going to commit suicide in the next 48 hours and has a specific plan" crisis, not "she's talking generally about life not being worth living") then you should also talk to them about what the involuntary-commitment process is like in her state. And you should have some really frank discussions with yourself about whether that's something you should do, are willing to do, and if so, how you will know if it is time to do that. I don't know your state, but in general there are some pretty specific guidelines about when you can force mental health care and they probably are not what you think they are. That's not a decision you want to have forced on you with inadequate knowledge or preparation when you or your sister are in active crisis. (Ask me how I know, except don't, because I'm still in treatment for the PTSD I have from having to make that decision in a really shitty situation and from the fallout thereof, and frankly I still don't know if I made the right decision, so maybe ask me after another five or ten years of therapy.)
I don't think you should go out there with the expectation that you are going to get your sister into rehab, unfortunately. I would suggest you information gather, and if possible depending on your resources, go and just spend some time with your sister, talk to her, help her with some practical stuff if you can, show her that you care and are worried, and offer to help her find rehab or mental health care if she wants it, now or later. But don't show up expecting to drag her there yourself. You can't do it. You shouldn't do it. You may permanently damage the relationship you have by trying to force her into getting help now, and then be unable to help her later when/if she is ready for help.
Take care of yourself. Find a support group (doesn't have to be Al-Anon if that's your thing, you can look at support for family members of people with mental illnesses, codependency groups, there are a variety of options). Find a therapist. Strengthen your own support network.
posted by Stacey at 8:01 AM on November 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
If you really think this is an immediate life-or-death suicidal ideation crisis (like, "I think she is going to commit suicide in the next 48 hours and has a specific plan" crisis, not "she's talking generally about life not being worth living") then you should also talk to them about what the involuntary-commitment process is like in her state. And you should have some really frank discussions with yourself about whether that's something you should do, are willing to do, and if so, how you will know if it is time to do that. I don't know your state, but in general there are some pretty specific guidelines about when you can force mental health care and they probably are not what you think they are. That's not a decision you want to have forced on you with inadequate knowledge or preparation when you or your sister are in active crisis. (Ask me how I know, except don't, because I'm still in treatment for the PTSD I have from having to make that decision in a really shitty situation and from the fallout thereof, and frankly I still don't know if I made the right decision, so maybe ask me after another five or ten years of therapy.)
I don't think you should go out there with the expectation that you are going to get your sister into rehab, unfortunately. I would suggest you information gather, and if possible depending on your resources, go and just spend some time with your sister, talk to her, help her with some practical stuff if you can, show her that you care and are worried, and offer to help her find rehab or mental health care if she wants it, now or later. But don't show up expecting to drag her there yourself. You can't do it. You shouldn't do it. You may permanently damage the relationship you have by trying to force her into getting help now, and then be unable to help her later when/if she is ready for help.
Take care of yourself. Find a support group (doesn't have to be Al-Anon if that's your thing, you can look at support for family members of people with mental illnesses, codependency groups, there are a variety of options). Find a therapist. Strengthen your own support network.
posted by Stacey at 8:01 AM on November 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Seconding something something's recommendation of Al-Anon for you. Sooner than later, before you make any big decisions about your sister.
I'm with the commenters who believe that your sister's alcohol problem has to be treated first and foremost. Most of the other problems are likely cascading from her primary one.
If she won't accept help for her drinking, it's possible you can have her sectioned/committed, but it may not be helpful. Al-Anon folks will know all about that.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 11:44 AM on November 3, 2015
I'm with the commenters who believe that your sister's alcohol problem has to be treated first and foremost. Most of the other problems are likely cascading from her primary one.
If she won't accept help for her drinking, it's possible you can have her sectioned/committed, but it may not be helpful. Al-Anon folks will know all about that.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 11:44 AM on November 3, 2015
I am speaking as someone whose mother just went through this with her own sister. We all live in the same city and I have been a firsthand witness to (and often entangled in) the chaos it involved.
If it weren't for your baby, I'd say sure - give it a shot, so at least you can say you've tried. The baby changes things. Your sister is an adult and she has other friends and family who could presumably help her. Your baby needs you more than he or she needs anyone else right now. Granted - that may be true of your sister, too, but your child has to trump your sister here. You can't be her savior right now, especially if she doesn't want your help. In this, I cannot second saucysault's advice enough that the best thing for you to do is to prepare yourself for her to hit bottom.
My starkly not-sugarcoated warning: if you choose to go out there and bring her back with you, be prepared for it to wreak havoc on your marriage. Be prepared to be absolutely strained, exhausted, and torn in all directions. These have been our experiences/my mother's experiences.
posted by pecanpies at 12:23 PM on November 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
If it weren't for your baby, I'd say sure - give it a shot, so at least you can say you've tried. The baby changes things. Your sister is an adult and she has other friends and family who could presumably help her. Your baby needs you more than he or she needs anyone else right now. Granted - that may be true of your sister, too, but your child has to trump your sister here. You can't be her savior right now, especially if she doesn't want your help. In this, I cannot second saucysault's advice enough that the best thing for you to do is to prepare yourself for her to hit bottom.
My starkly not-sugarcoated warning: if you choose to go out there and bring her back with you, be prepared for it to wreak havoc on your marriage. Be prepared to be absolutely strained, exhausted, and torn in all directions. These have been our experiences/my mother's experiences.
posted by pecanpies at 12:23 PM on November 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
I want you to know that I am sympathetic. If I could give you a set of actions and a script that would make your sister feel happier and set down whatever she's drinking, I really would.
You are getting a lot of answers that don't fit the pattern you asked for because there is no script that works for everyone, or even anyone. I have a relative who has been overdoing it with alcohol for a long time. He has been to very expensive rehab, more than fifty thousand dollars, but went back to drinking after a few months. Everything I've read from basic AA precepts to the wise things written above says that one can't make anyone else stop drinking. You can maybe make them want to try, but failure and lapses are really, really likely.
I'm a mom, but I'm at the opposite end of the sequence from you. My kid is a young adult, he's been driving for a couple of years, and most of what I have to do now to be a good parent is to let go of him so that he can test his own wings and see what he can do without leaning on me. Since you have a three month old, your instincts are really different. I almost imagine that if you had a big enough rocking chair, you'd pull your sister down onto your lap and rock her until she stopped crying.
posted by puddledork at 12:25 PM on November 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
You are getting a lot of answers that don't fit the pattern you asked for because there is no script that works for everyone, or even anyone. I have a relative who has been overdoing it with alcohol for a long time. He has been to very expensive rehab, more than fifty thousand dollars, but went back to drinking after a few months. Everything I've read from basic AA precepts to the wise things written above says that one can't make anyone else stop drinking. You can maybe make them want to try, but failure and lapses are really, really likely.
I'm a mom, but I'm at the opposite end of the sequence from you. My kid is a young adult, he's been driving for a couple of years, and most of what I have to do now to be a good parent is to let go of him so that he can test his own wings and see what he can do without leaning on me. Since you have a three month old, your instincts are really different. I almost imagine that if you had a big enough rocking chair, you'd pull your sister down onto your lap and rock her until she stopped crying.
posted by puddledork at 12:25 PM on November 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I meant to add that my aunt entered rehab (for, maybe, the third or fourth time?) days before my first child was born. I haven't been right where you've been, but I feel for you on so many levels & my heart goes out to you. I'm here if you just need a random, not-directly-involved person to talk and/or vent to.
posted by pecanpies at 12:34 PM on November 3, 2015
posted by pecanpies at 12:34 PM on November 3, 2015
It's awfully hard to watch someone you love struggle with what your sister is struggling with. She's in a special kind of hell; I've lived it and seen plenty of others live it also, and helped them as I've been able, as they've allowed me to.
I say forget the idea of helping your sister get into a rehab, or, really, getting any help. It really is an inside job, the door that needs to open has only one latch, and that latch is on the inside. The help you can give is to give her your love.
Flying out there is not a bad thing; let her see -- in person -- let her see your demonstration of love for her, and your care. But just don't think that the latch can be reached just because your F2F with her. Depending upon whether your sister trusts your cousin, it could be a real good thing -- it's much more difficult to lie to two people than to one. I've heard that in AA that some members think it best to go on a 12th step call with two people, for this reason.
Not some long stay -- 3 days or 4. You've a family to care for, they come first, especially your child but also your spouse, your marriage. I'm with others in saying that you ought not open your home to her.
You're actually lucky to have been allowed inside far enough that she has let you know her difficulties -- I did all that I could to seal that off from family members, mostly, at least until after I set down the drink. And even then, I didn't like to show people the whole thing, esp when manic depression was totally stomping on me, and in me.
If anything, rather than trying to force her into a rehab of one sort or another I'd ask her -- before buying the tickets for your flight -- ask her if she is willing to let you sit in on one or (preferably) two sessions with her psychotherapist. It's possible she's that not letting her therapist know things that you know IE showing you one face and her therapist another. Again, it is more difficult to lie to two people, esp if those two people are on the inside, as you are, as her therapist presumably is.
After your visit with her therapist -- should you be lucky enough to get the keys to that part of her life -- leave it in the hands of that person, and in your sisters hands.
Hitting her bottom -- that has to happen, from what I've seen. One persons bottom includes spouse and children still in the home, and sometimes a really nice home, too, totally ordered, bills all payed, valued in their work, etc and etc. Another persons bottom involves losing their belongings at year-end, going driftless. Some people are on the street, some people are in the penthouse. Same-same.
The bottom is where you stop digging.
Get thee to AlAnon. If the spirituality in the 12 steps bothers you, remember it is god as you understand god, not the idea of another. It damn sure isn't religion, though you'll find nothing contrary to any religion, if you have this faith or that one. GOD -- Good Orderly Direction. GOD -- Generic Omnipotent Deity. Etc and etc. Talking with others who have and/or are walking your path is very comforting, you'll hear people speaking your heart.
You have my sincere good wishes, and so does your sister. I'm visiting a friend who lives on the border, South Texas, McAllen, so turn your antenna in this direction to pick up the signal.
(If you want a grapefruit I can send you one, or a billion -- I've never seen so many grapefruit.)
Good luck.
posted by dancestoblue at 4:32 PM on November 3, 2015
I say forget the idea of helping your sister get into a rehab, or, really, getting any help. It really is an inside job, the door that needs to open has only one latch, and that latch is on the inside. The help you can give is to give her your love.
Flying out there is not a bad thing; let her see -- in person -- let her see your demonstration of love for her, and your care. But just don't think that the latch can be reached just because your F2F with her. Depending upon whether your sister trusts your cousin, it could be a real good thing -- it's much more difficult to lie to two people than to one. I've heard that in AA that some members think it best to go on a 12th step call with two people, for this reason.
Not some long stay -- 3 days or 4. You've a family to care for, they come first, especially your child but also your spouse, your marriage. I'm with others in saying that you ought not open your home to her.
You're actually lucky to have been allowed inside far enough that she has let you know her difficulties -- I did all that I could to seal that off from family members, mostly, at least until after I set down the drink. And even then, I didn't like to show people the whole thing, esp when manic depression was totally stomping on me, and in me.
If anything, rather than trying to force her into a rehab of one sort or another I'd ask her -- before buying the tickets for your flight -- ask her if she is willing to let you sit in on one or (preferably) two sessions with her psychotherapist. It's possible she's that not letting her therapist know things that you know IE showing you one face and her therapist another. Again, it is more difficult to lie to two people, esp if those two people are on the inside, as you are, as her therapist presumably is.
After your visit with her therapist -- should you be lucky enough to get the keys to that part of her life -- leave it in the hands of that person, and in your sisters hands.
Hitting her bottom -- that has to happen, from what I've seen. One persons bottom includes spouse and children still in the home, and sometimes a really nice home, too, totally ordered, bills all payed, valued in their work, etc and etc. Another persons bottom involves losing their belongings at year-end, going driftless. Some people are on the street, some people are in the penthouse. Same-same.
The bottom is where you stop digging.
Get thee to AlAnon. If the spirituality in the 12 steps bothers you, remember it is god as you understand god, not the idea of another. It damn sure isn't religion, though you'll find nothing contrary to any religion, if you have this faith or that one. GOD -- Good Orderly Direction. GOD -- Generic Omnipotent Deity. Etc and etc. Talking with others who have and/or are walking your path is very comforting, you'll hear people speaking your heart.
You have my sincere good wishes, and so does your sister. I'm visiting a friend who lives on the border, South Texas, McAllen, so turn your antenna in this direction to pick up the signal.
(If you want a grapefruit I can send you one, or a billion -- I've never seen so many grapefruit.)
Good luck.
posted by dancestoblue at 4:32 PM on November 3, 2015
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posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on November 3, 2015 [1 favorite]