My adorable puppy is suddenly fearful-aggressive. Help!
October 29, 2015 4:08 PM   Subscribe

Difficulty level: boy German shepherd puppy is not supposed to be neutered yet, owner with PTSD, trainer is suddenly using some maybe dubious tactics, and we have been dealing with aggressive off leash dogs. Beloved dog is now barking and lunging against some other dogs and people, especially in territorial environments.

We got our German Shepherd puppy, W, from a breeder at the age of 5 months (he is 7 months now) He warned that the puppy was a bit shy, but good with dogs and cats and kids. He also gave us a contract, which we signed, saying we couldn't neuter the puppy until he was a year and a half - something about how it impacts their hips to be neutered early. So we are "looking forward" to another 11 months before we can neuter him.

When we got him he seemed fearful of other people, but he did also just have a big shakeup in owners and surroundings. W used to hide behind me. We have since brought him to social events and around people, and he has been relatively chill (especially with people offering bacon and treats) He used to be really good with other dogs.

Recently we had a couple incidents where off leash dogs came beelining for me/W barking their heads off and being aggressive. In one instance, I was a bit worried about the other dog, and W started return barking and growling and lunging at it, holding with all my strength.

Around the same time, the trainer we were working with for beginning training tried to take his leash for a demonstration, and he was having none of it, just kept frantically trying to get away from her and back to me, so she put a pinch collar on him. It seemed to "work", but he didn't seem happy about it, and I was really concerned because it seemed born from the trainers frustration with him visibly not obeying her, not therapeutic. She said he needed to wear that collar to come to training in future.

He has recently started full out barking and growling and kind of...snarling and lunging...when other dogs come too close to us. He is also super defensive of both the car we frequently travel in and our home. In the last week, he started nipping and actually nipped two people who got too close in the car/home (no skin break, no bruise, but still scary as fuck).

This is especially a problem because W is a beautiful, generally well behaved dog, so people don't think he will be aggressive and they keep putting their hands near his face regardless of what I say, and I'm really worried he's going to bite and someone is going to try to make me put him down.

Please help! What is the cause of this and what do I do?
posted by corb to Pets & Animals (11 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: There has been exactly one study linking early neutering to hip displaysia. Your breeder is being very selective in looking at that study, as neutering is always a trade-off and the study clearly states:

Among male and female dogs with early-age gonadectomy, hip dysplasia, noise phobias, and sexual behaviors were increased, whereas obesity, separation anxiety, escaping behaviors, inappropriate elimination when frightened, and relinquishment for any reason were decreased.

I would consult with your vet with an eye to neutering the dog now. Unless you have to bring the dog back to the breeder for any reason, I'd ignore the contract -- it represents the general position of your breeder, not the best interests of this individual dog.

Your dog clearly disliked your trainer before the prong collar incident, and even without that (!!!!) I'd terminate that relationship in a red hot minute, because that trainer is shit. Obviously, I'd look for a new trainer. When the new trainer has properly assessed the dog, I'd discuss a head collar or muzzle loop (not a full muzzle) while you are working together to socialise the dog within his new solo-dog pack structure and to decrease his guarding behaviour. You need to immediately safeguard people and other dogs while you are dealing with this issue; I realise that's stressful and seems unfair, but it is the responsible thing to do right now.

The good news is that this is a young dog, and GSDs are smart and trainable! A good trainer will be able to help you positively correct and reward, and help W to be a good canine citizen.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:39 PM on October 29, 2015 [20 favorites]


Yep, time for a new trainer that stresses positive reinforcement instead of pain.
posted by HuronBob at 4:49 PM on October 29, 2015 [7 favorites]


Seven months seems early to have behavior that extreme. New trainer and soon.
posted by ReluctantViking at 4:55 PM on October 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


Best answer: This sounds like reactivity to me. Total agreement: get rid of this trainer yesterday. Reactivity is going to be exacerbated by anything that has your dog associating other dogs with anything unpleasant. Jerks on a prong collar when he sees another dog and starts getting upset are only going to make the situation worse. Look for trainers who advertise themselves as "R+", or "positive reinforcement." Karon Pryor certified is usually a good sign.

One good protocol to try might be the Look at That game, especially for use with strangers or other dogs. Basically, you want to reward him for looking calmly at other dogs and then back to you. Do that from whatever distance he can be calm and thoughtful--if that means looking at another dog and then you from across a football field, start there. Do not give him a chance to react--if he does yell and bark, back away and try again later from a larger distance. Give him practice dealing with potentially scary things, like weird people in his home or other dogs, and encourage him to make good associations with those things. Strangers should be giving him awesome high value treats every time they come visit, from whatever thresholds he's comfortable with.

I don't honestly think neutering or not neutering is going to do anything for reactivity on W's part. What it might do is make it less likely for other dogs to snark at him--other dogs in the US often react weirdly to intact males and neutered males in particular tend to be weirdly snarky at intact males in a way that isn't true for other neutered males or for females. That could help vis a vis reactivity by giving him less negative experiences, or it might not. What it MIGHT help with is if he's primarily snarking at other male dogs--GSDs are somewhat prone to same-sex aggression--but that doesn't sound like the case here.

That said, some of his not getting on with other dogs now--or his "getting on really well with other dogs before!"--really is probably in part due to hitting puberty. Puppies are way more forgiving of other dogs' manners and (sometimes!) bullying than adult dogs, in the same way that children will put up with a lot more than adult humans will from other people. On the flip side, people are much more willing to put up with rude behavior from children than other adults, and the same is true for puppies and adult dogs. Many dogs stop being as forgiving of other dogs as they get older, and in my experience you can't really determine a dog's "adult" interest in other dogs until they're nearly three years old. So you may or may not be able to get him back to the level of "good with other dogs" he had as a younger puppy, because he's not a puppy any more. He might be either developing firmer ideas about what kind of behavior he is willing to put up with, or he might be losing that puppy-tolerant grace that other adult dogs have been granting him. Without watching him, it's hard to be sure.
posted by sciatrix at 5:16 PM on October 29, 2015 [3 favorites]


Best answer: I don't have suggestions on what to do other than hire a trainer that uses only positive training methods, but as far as the question about what might be causing the change, I've read about a thing called fear periods that puppies/young dogs go through at various points in their development.

My sister's dog, who she adopted when he was around 11 months old, seemed to go through one at around 14 months old. It was pretty dramatic, he was terrified by random inanimate things like stop signs and growled/howled/barked at these , as well as seeming much more fearful and upset at other dogs. And he did grow out of it after a month or two. But I/we were much more careful with him during this period.
posted by car s at 5:19 PM on October 29, 2015


10000% you need a positive reinforcement trainer. Hopefully one who believes in clicker training or marker training. Classical conditioning. This can be reversed but you need professional help before you have a full-sized dog with aggression issues. You can absolutely get this addressed and have a positive and happy puppy but you need a different trainer, lots of time and energy to address it.
posted by barnone at 5:56 PM on October 29, 2015


Best answer: Owner of a previously fear biting reactive dog here, nthing the calls to find a trainer that uses positive reinforcement, you want to avoid punishment or adding pain to anything fear based pretty much as it will just "prove" to the dog it has something to be fearful of. As others have said your current trainer is shit. . .or at least 30 years out of date in their training methods.

I suggest this a lot, but it's because I've seen it work in several cases, you might want to look into agility classes, again with a trainer/class that focuses on positive reinforcement. They are really good at helping to build confidence in dogs, & in helping them learn to to trust their owners, they are a really good way of building a bond with a new dog.

If you have the money I'd get a quick bit of legal advice in regard to that contract. I thought pets where considered property, if you own the dog in full I'm not sure what right the breeder has to tell you that you can't do something that is important to the health (in this case mental health) of your dog, but I'm definitely not a lawyer & this might be worth looking into. While neutering isn't a catch all cure, it certainly be additional help.
posted by wwax at 6:11 PM on October 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: I'm not sure if it's mostly male dogs or not - some dogs he seems okay with tolerating the existence of, others are the devil in dog form. Size does not seem to be the issue - there was a huge collie he just wanted to politely smell the butt of, and a tiny terrier that was clearly Big Danger. Some dogs he gets mad at from half a block away, other dogs can come within ten feet, but not five.

I guess I've already kind of fired the trainer - I just have felt so uncomfortable going back that I haven't been in about two weeks. I will look for a trainer that's better, but anything I can do in the meantime would be great! Also I should note he's 60 lbs right now and I am worried if he gets much bigger it will be harder to hold him back.
posted by corb at 6:37 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


If you really need help to hold him back, there's no shame in that--but I'd recommend a front-clip harness like an Easy Walk or a head collar, like a Gentle Leader, instead of his prong. Front clip harnesses are less aversive than anything else. The Easy Walk has a martingale attachment that tightens around the front legs if the dog pulls, but you can actually use any harness to accomplish most of the same effect. Basically, if he tries to pull on a front clip harness, the pulling is going to center in the middle of his chest and pull him to the side, so he can't effectively use his weight to haul you down the road.

On the other hand, head collars might be a better choice because head collars will let you actually control his head and where he's looking. This is not as effective as getting him to make decisions about looking at other dogs without losing his mind, but it can be very useful for managing his behavior and getting a dog past a problem situation in a pinch. On the other hand, my experience is that dogs often hate wearing head collars at first and need to be carefully conditioned to tolerate them happily, so do factor that into your decision making.

If you do continue using the prong, make sure you have it fitted correctly! It should fit at the top of his neck, not around the base of it, and it should always, always be paired with another collar in case the prong fails and comes apart. I'd lean away from using it because it is an aversive device and for reactive dogs, those can really exacerbate the problem.
posted by sciatrix at 7:02 PM on October 29, 2015


My GSD is the same age as yours! I understand many GSDs go through a 'butthead stage' (quoting a GSD trainer with 20+ years of experience, so I believe that is a technical term) around that age before settling down. However, many things about what's been happening with your dog make me think you need a new trainer ASAP, and a head collar as sciatrix suggests, instead of a pinch collar.

Also, get him neutered now. This alone will probably curb quite a bit of his aggression. You can also find local puppy socialization classes to help him get used to other dogs in a calm(er), controlled environment. Give positive reinforcement anytime he interacts calmly with other dogs/people. Please don't take him to off leash dog parks until you can count on him not to act aggressively around other dogs.

I've taught my dog the command 'easy', which means to calm down and stand quietly when he sees other dogs/cats/rodents/small children. Reward any calmness lavishly with treats, and he'll (hopefully) get the idea pretty soon. Training him to 'heel' will also help you stay in charge when you're on leash. A good trainer will use this command in progressively more distracting environments until your dog will respond to it no matter what's going on.

As the trainer quoted above once told me, "Anytime you're fighting with a dog over who's alpha, you've already lost the battle." So focus on getting him to happily obey you (roast chicken seems to work quite well as a motivator) instead of trying to fight bad behavior. Good luck! GSDs are wonderful pets.
posted by ananci at 12:09 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Oh, I know exactly how you feel. Our Shepherd-something mix is 2 1/2 years now, and we've had huge problems with fearful-aggression since he was about 7-8 months. His reaction is worst with small terrier-type dogs and cats, because several of those have scared or bullied him when he was small.

For me, it's specially depressing because I was a very good trainer when I was younger - could walk the "very aggressive" family German Shepherd without even a collar and he would wait for me outside shops without a sound. For over a year with this new pup, I felt I had lost it. Now I realize that I spent many, many hours with the old dog, using positive reenforcement, and that I just don't have that amount of time today. Also, it has been very difficult for me to teach my teenage-daughter to stop shouting NO NO at our pup all the time. Now my older daughter, who is good with animals, but has moved out, has started clicker-training him, and engaged her sister in the project (so lovely). And I have decided to be very focused during the couple of hours I spend walking him or just having a good time with him in the yard. No phone, no other speculations, even when he is just sniffing at stuff. I feel I should have made these changes a year ago. They are good for me, too.
I've started soothing him and talking with him if he barks at dogs from the car, and that has almost passed as a consequence. At home, I actually want him to be a bit protective, I live part-time in a very isolated place, and a car coming up the drive in off-hours is rarely good news. Obviously, it's less appropriate in town, but he seems to be calming down a lot. Incidentally, at the farm he never wears a collar or leash, never strays, never hunts, and never harms the dogs that peaceful daytime hikers might be taking with them.
There are still issues, but he has vastly improved during the last month, and I am very hopeful. The other day, we went to a dog-park, and there was an aggressive Jack Russell, normally his worst fear. But the owner was a smart guy and we let them talk through the gate first, and then gently let them meet and play, with Jack Russell owner being very aware that his tiny dog was the aggressor and my huge dog was scared. (OK, that was really, really a lucky meeting, but maybe a good trainer can help with arranging something similar). This made a huge difference.
BTW, my dog isn't neutered, and probably won't be. The "old" Shepherd mentioned above died from hip dysplasia, and I'm doing all I can to avoid the disease.

It always saddens me when German Shepherds become aggressive, either through training or bad advice from trainers (those pinching collars…). It says on the package: they are shepherd dogs, ideal for families and for an active outdoor life. They are intelligent, and love to learn new stuff. And fiercely loyal. They also need attention and stimulation - and treats: my cousin taught me to think of dog-food as 2/3 food in the bowl at mealtimes, and 1/3 treats to be handed out all the time when something good is appreciated.
posted by mumimor at 3:45 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


« Older Just another Wordpress.com question...   |   Former Colonial Masters Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.