Looking for advice on how to think about buying an apartment in Queens
October 4, 2015 6:29 AM   Subscribe

I am a professional in NYC, living in Queens. I'm a transplant, but I think I will be here for the next, well, forever. A number of people I know are buying apartments, but a lot of them had help from their parents. I don't have that luxury, but if I wanted to, I could probably afford a place in a good neighborhood (though nothing as trendy as Astoria, for example). Snowflake details follow!

My question is sort of a meta question: how should I think about this? For example... Coop vs condo. I kind of hate the idea of a coop, largely because you never actually own your apartment and there's no bound on the maintenance charge. Also, for a 2 or 3BR you're basically adding an extra mortgage in maintenance fees! But on the flip side, condos are extremely expensive because there are so few of them, and the ones there are get pounced on by foreign investors. So I just don't know.

My main fear is ultimately getting priced out of New York in the long term. I'd like to raise a family in queens (1 or 2 kids) and would like to be able to live here without worrying about rents eventually forcing me out of the neighborhood. On the flip side, buying seems to be much much more expensive than renting, to the point that even if I CAN "afford" it, I don't know if it is worth it?

I don't really have anyone I can ask this sort of stuff. Does anyone here have anyone they can recommend? Are there any websites? And more broadly, any advice on how I should be thinking about this decisions (and the sorts of things that should go into the decision making process) would be very welcome. I'm pretty ignorant on the topic.

Oh, and a sort of tangential curve ball... Am I insane to be factoring global warming into this? If it's bad, it could seriously challenge the economic viability of any current coastal city. Is that insane?!
posted by anonymous to Home & Garden (11 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
I'm fairly sure that the "flooding everything to the point that the region you're looking at would be underwater" global-warming impact wouldn't be happening within your lifetime, most likely. As for the "greater number of big storms" global warming impact, you can lessen that affect by simply not looking for a home in a neighborhood that would be on the coast.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:07 AM on October 4, 2015


The NY Times ran this "Is it Better to Rent or Buy?" calculator last year that might be useful for you. You'll have to do a little research so you can feed it useful values for mortgage interest rate, property tax rate, etc.
posted by bcwinters at 7:14 AM on October 4, 2015


We recently bought a coop in Brooklyn. We chose a coop because a condo at the same size was nearly triple the cost, and incredibly limiting for where we would want to be.

The Coop we chose had lots of extra benefits, such as a door man and onsite handymen and porters, 24/7 security, and a board that is really nice and involved. Our maintenance fees are on the low side because we choose a neighborhood that is just about as untrendy as possible, and they go to the staff salaries and being sure that the place looks good.

I am more comfortable knowing that as coop owners, we have the right to question how the money is spent, and everyone making decisions on how much you pay- also has to pay. Everyone is invested in keeping the property value up and the maintence fees down.

As for climate change fears, sure it's a thing but it's not like there is a part of the country that isn't experiencing horrible climate change related disasters. So... I guess you should probably stay away from like the Rockaways and try not to think about it?

If you can find a place that is about the same or a little more than what you pay for rent, AND you stay there for like 15 years, even if you have to leave, you'll have saved money by not having to pay moving expenses, broker-fees, and tons of mental energy of looking for a new place everytime your landlord tries something shady. That might not be enough to make it worth buying, but it's something to consider when looking at the cost/risk benefits.

Not sure if any of that helped, but good luck.
posted by Blisterlips at 7:17 AM on October 4, 2015


Regarding the co-op vs. condo question, you don't have to decide before you start looking but your decision may be largely guided by what's out there. My husband and I bought a condo in DC a few months ago and while I was more interested in buying a small house, there were many more condos that we liked so we never had to say "okay, we are giving up on finding a small house."

Also, philosophically, I decided at one point that I didn't want to make this decision based on fear, whether it was fear of being priced out or something else. This is probably one of the biggest financial decisions you will make in your life and making it based on fear just felt wrong to me.

My husband and I found our realtor by talking to friends. It turned out that several of them used the same guy. He was happy to just talk, no pressure. We actually talked to him four years ago, decided it wasn't the right time for us, then called him again in March this year when we were serious. Again, we never felt pressured by him but he held our hands and talked us through the contract, the clauses, when we need to give money to who, how much time we have to back out, etc. So maybe see if you can find a realtor to just talk with.
posted by kat518 at 7:55 AM on October 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


That rent vs buy calculator is almost certainly going to tell you to rent
posted by JPD at 7:57 AM on October 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't think buying an anchor property in New York is a bad idea. When I bought my place in Bushwick in '06. even though it was "cheap," it was still more than renting in the neighborhood and has only recently become close to the average rent. But the fact that I can always live here; that if I want to sell, I will get a price that lets me buy in NY again — this has made my life very much better. When I was in SF and was renting again, and knew that if the building decided to renovate or something and no-fault evict us, I really noticed how the uncertainty took its toll. (It would have been different somewhere where there was plenty of other housing, but that is not SF or NYC.)

I disagree with the above about not buying to have kids — I feel like it is different in high-rent, low-housing cities. My fiance and I live in my place because it was here and (now) cheap and we feel lucky to have it. If he hated it and we sold, we still would benefit from having had it to increase in value as everything else did. I don't really see a risk there.

Finally, both condos & coops have fees: coop fees are higher. I live in a condo and I honestly think it doesn't matter that much. I guess it was nice that when I moved out of the city for a few years, I could sublet with abandon, but there is also the risk of other people doing that and picking less-pleasant tenants.
posted by dame at 9:05 AM on October 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


Its a levered investment. If prices decline you'll be locked out of moving to something new.
posted by JPD at 9:12 AM on October 4, 2015


If I were you, I'd look for a rent-stabilized apartment.
posted by Automocar at 10:16 AM on October 4, 2015


kind of hate the idea of a coop, largely because you never actually own your apartment

I think this is a non-issue as it makes very little functional difference.

In terms of the finances I think its important to remember the maintenance fee includes the property tax you would otherwise pay, and is 50% tax deductible.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:24 AM on October 4, 2015


Some things to watch out for when you're buying in Queens:

* Many co-ops are "cheap" for a reason: high down-payment requirements, boards that make it hard to sell and impossible to sublet, and buildings coming into VERY expensive points in their life-cycle.

* Pay little or nothing for elementary school zones. They are subject to drastic change and the Department of Education is VERY unsympathetic.

* Catch a demographic wave. There are many Queens neighborhoods which are going to be HUGELY more valuable in the next 5 or 10 years because they are on their way to being the national hub of X, Y or Z wealthy immigrant community, or because hipsters are transforming them into the next Williamsburg, perhaps on their way to being the next Brooklyn Heights. There are many Queens neighborhood where is this is NOT happening now and won't happen for decades, if at all.
posted by MattD at 1:19 PM on October 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


Just one other thought: there's traditionally been a significant discount on the (for want of a better term) walk-to-the-bus-to-the-subway areas like Maspeth, Middle Village, Glendale and the southern stretches of Woodside, Elmhurst, Rego Park and Forest Hills. Car ride and valet apps (could end up really transformational there.
posted by MattD at 1:26 PM on October 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


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