Need help gaining muscle.

September 15, 2015 2:30 PM

I'm 33 years old, 5'9, down from 165lb (21% body fat) to 140lb (18%) in 2.5 years. My goal is to reach 10% body fat by the end of this year.

For the past 2 years I have been focusing on boot camps and group exercises and occasional cardio and weight lifting. My diet consists of very little sugar and oil, no soda, no candy, no fast food.I have beer once in a while. Oatmeal and fruit for b'fast. Protein shake as soon as I finish workout. Vegetable Salad for lunch, some days I have tuna on wheat no cheese. Dinner 2 cups of rice/noodles with egg whites. Grilled/baked Chicken/Home made Beef patties no oil, little spray. On most days I have early dinner and I walk outside for 15-20 mins. I plan on joining cross fit and focus on weight lifting but I don't want to over do it.

Boot camps allowed me to lose some body fat but I still feel skinny and fat in some ways. If you are a body builder/ nutritionist, what do you advise? Should I take more rest days? Some days I am really fatigued and feel like I over did it. Especially when I combined boot camp with weight lifting and running the same day.

Monday: CHEST
TUESDAY: YOGA(NOON) BOOT CAMP/ABS (NIGHT)
WED: BACK AND ABS
THU: YOGA
FRI: SHOULDERS/ARMS
SAT: RUN 3 MILES
SUN: REST
I get about 6- 8 hours of sleep on most days. I occasionally mix cardio with strength training most days for little while (5-10 min) as warm-up. I always stretch before after and during the exercise.

Sorry for being very specific, I really needed help here.

posted by samcivic to Health & Fitness (22 answers total)

Response by poster: EDIT: The workout routine I posted is the one I started recently and have been very strict.
posted by samcivic at 2:33 PM on September 15, 2015

The formula for gaining muscle is to do resistance training + eat a caloric surplus with plenty of protein, with plenty of rest in between lifting days. You appear to be trying to lose fat at the same time as gaining muscle, which very few people can do. I would advise you to focus on either gaining muscle or losing weight, trying to do both at once can be counterproductive.
posted by sid at 2:43 PM on September 15, 2015 [7 favorites]

What sid said. Serious weightlifters work in cycles of bulking (when you eat waaaay in excess of your TDEE, the calories you burn each day, and lift super heavy) and cutting (where you eat below your TDEE and don't lift quite as intensely). When bulking you put on both muscle mass and fat, and when cutting you lose both muscle mass and fat. The weightlifting serves to help you gain as little fat as possible when bulking and and lose as little muscle mass as possible when cutting, but that gain/loss is always gonna be there.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:58 PM on September 15, 2015 [5 favorites]

I don't see any legs in your weekly routine? Squats and deadlifts will pack muscle onto your entire frame. Get someone who's qualified to teach you the form.
posted by erlking at 3:30 PM on September 15, 2015 [5 favorites]

Do you know how many calories you're actually consuming every day? From what you described, I wouldn't be surprised if you're consuming too few calories for the level of exercise you're doing. Your metabolism can actually slow down if you're not eating enough. Are you staying away from just oil or fat in general? I'm not a nutritionist, but I think you should be eating more healthy fats.
posted by Lingasol at 3:44 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

Use Starting Strength, follow the plan.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:47 PM on September 15, 2015 [4 favorites]

Your workout plan might lack intensity. Ways to add intensity:

-"Run three miles" isn't going to burn a lot of calories unless you're doing it hard, but a hard three miles is kind of a drag of a middle ground, for me. Either lengthen the run-my long slow run is a hilly 12.5 miles-or shorten it and ramp up the intensity: 400 repeats on the track, shuttle runs. Intervals can be a nice compromise: I do a weekly tempo run on the treadmill-ten minutes at something a little faster than my 5k race pace, four minutes at something a little faster than a conversation pace. If I can get through four 14 minute sets, I bump up the fast pace and the slow pace by a tenth of a mile an hour the next week.
-Yoga is really important and fun but isn't a workout all by itself, at least for me. I wouldn't feel like I was burning enough calories on a yoga day and would consider it a rest day. I integrate yoga elements into my cooldown routine on my lifting days.
-Where are your squats and deadlifts happening?
-Add cardio on your lifting days-I do 5000m on the rowing machine or 5 miles on the bike.

You eat a little better than I do and I don't have advice about that. But I wonder what's so great about 10% body fat? Maybe I'm different psychologically, but a goal like that wouldn't bring me joy. My fitness goals are along the lines of "Protect my damaged knee from high impact trauma by keeping my leg muscles very fit and working extra hard on hip flexibility" and "Be able to play 70 high quality minutes in the center midfield on the soccer field every week" and "Continue chipping away at my best half marathon time"
posted by Kwine at 3:50 PM on September 15, 2015 [7 favorites]

Have you considered consulting an expert, like a personal trainer? I imagine you could get a meal plan and workout tips from one and check in with them every month or so. Hiring one for monthly consultations like this couldn't cost that much more than you are already spending on bootcamps and might be a better use of your time.
posted by purple_bird at 4:31 PM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

10% by the end of the year most likely isn't doable unless you do something like a protein-sparing modified fast. But that's not healthy, so don't do it. Anyway, as others have said, what are your goals? Gain muscle, as your title states? Or to lose body fat? It's pretty tough to do both at the same time, so you might want to cut down to a level where you feel comfortable bulking, and focus on gaining muscle then.

Also, it sounds like you might not be getting enough fat and calories in your diet -- both can seriously screw with your hormones and make it harder for you to recover, much less put on muscle.
posted by un petit cadeau at 4:33 PM on September 15, 2015 [3 favorites]

Why are you skipping leg day? AKA the day that packs on the most (and most frequently used) muscle? You burn fat more efficiently with muscle gains.
posted by poffin boffin at 5:19 PM on September 15, 2015 [3 favorites]

Side note: make sure you're getting some healthy fats in you, like avocado, coconut, and olive oil. Yes, they are calorie-dense, but there is more to being healthy than just losing weight.

Some amino acids might help you beef up.
posted by Neekee at 6:40 PM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Firstly I thank everyone in giving valuable advise. This is my first question and was not expecting tremendous response like this in just a few hours.

I missed few things. I typed this post last week, could not post it due to some new member restriction, updated it last second today with my workout routine and missed legs. Here is the updated routine that I plan on doing. Let me know if this is too intense and may need more rest days as I tend to really push myself a lot.

Monday : Chest 90 minutes
Tuesday: Yoga@noon, Boot camp @night 45 minutes
Wednesday: BACK 90 minutes (Includes Deadlifts)
Thursday: Legs 60 minutes
Friday: Shoulders@Noon Biceps/Triceps@Night
Saturday: Active Rest/ Run 5k 30 minutes.
Sunday: Rest

Before every lifting I like to do some sort of cardio. Like I sometimes run half a mile before and after lifting. Right after that I have protein shake. I am not totally sure if it contains amino acids like the casein shake I have every night when I have my leg days.

As far as Bulking vs cutting, I would like to choose bulking as my choice at the moment given that I will gain muscle mass with a bit of fat. Not so concerned about body fat as I am with gaining muscle. Yes, I always wanted to work with personal trainer/nutritionist to discuss my goals but money is always a factor. I have free gym membership as an added bonus to wellness stipend I get from my workplace 250 /year. So, I think I will spend it on a trainer/nutritionist. I never paid for any boot camp classes. I did try out crossfit last friday and I think it can be very productive if I can keep up with it and the cost factor.

Regarding eating, I eat a lot. Every hour I am munching onto some fruit, veggie,nuts... I stay away from any processed food. In my lunch salad, I make sure I get a lot of avocados and all greens. My dinner mostly contains chicken and rice. I hardly eat bread, and when I do it has to be my favorite tuna salad on whole wheat. Again no dressing and lots of veggies added. I drink enough water and 3-4 cups of green tea, no coffee. Just some black tea in the morning.


Again, thanks everyone for replies. This is an awesome community.

P.S: How do I edit my original post? If that is possible.
posted by samcivic at 8:37 PM on September 15, 2015

Response by poster: Regarding my lifting, I do sets 4 sets of 12 reps to the highest resistance.
posted by samcivic at 8:47 PM on September 15, 2015

1) From a high level your routine looks like the kind of thing that someone who already lifts heavy might do. You are scrawny (what the r/fitness crowd would describe as 'skinny-fat') with little muscle mass & you’re only exercising each major muscle group once a week. My guess is that by spending an hour or more on each major muscle group once a week you’re exhausting those set of muscles after 20 minutes or so & the rest is pretty much wasted time. Honestly, it sounds like you are overdoing exercise in general & not giving your body enough time to recover - remember that muscle growth happens during rest periods. You can’t get fitter if your body is exhausted all the time.

2) If your goal is to gain strength, then you’re probably not eating enough: Your body will put on muscle very slowly, if at all, if you’re not in calorific surplus. Also check that you’re eating enough protein. 2g/kg bodyweight is a good target. Body builders will eat 1000 calories/ day on top of their TDEE, but unless you’re planning on doing the whole bulk / cut thing just make sure you’re not slipping into deficit & are getting enough protein.

3) Reps: For hypertrophy (ie building strength) 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps is more effective than higher reps. 12 is OK, but you would probably be using your time more effectively if you did 3 sets of 5-8 reps, where the last rep was literally the last you could physically do. Also, rest between sets: Circuit-training style leaping from one exercise to the next may be good for cardio but it’s much slower at building muscle. You need something like 3-5 minutes rest between sets if your goal is hypertrophy. (Doing a set of a different exercise that targets another muscle group & alternating them so that one muscle gets rested whilst the other ones are exercised is fine.)

Can you re-post with details of your *actual* routine? What exercise are you actually doing. Free weights? Machines?

Honestly, in your place I’d either find someone to teach me safe barbell technique & start with the beginner routine from Starting Strength, or pick one of the starter routines from the r/fitness getting started page that doesn’t involve free weights and go with that instead. Don’t overthink things!
posted by pharm at 6:57 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]

Oh, and I wouldn’t go near crossfit, but maybe that’s just me.
posted by pharm at 6:59 AM on September 16, 2015

Take a look at this: 165lb (21% body fat) to 140lb (18%) in 2.5 years

Not very impressive, is it? Not zero progress but very slow. Have you wondered why?

Your routine and diet need considerable work. You seem very motivated and well-intentioned but don't know what you're doing. You are really focused on cardio and eating carbs. That is not conducive to putting on muscle.

As several have noted, your first routine has no leg day. Your updated routine is not much better because you are only training a body part one day each week. I'd recommend a beginner's PPL (push, pul, legs) program that is focused on a core compound lift each day (deadlift, squat, bench, overhead press) and then has complimentary exercises. If you go six days a week, that has you training each body part twice a week. I think 5/3/1 is good but I think of it as an intermediate program and you are definitely a beginner.

"Boot camp" to me generally means jumping and running around in a field or room. That won't build muscle. Ditto for running. Yoga? Nope.

Your diet also needs work. Vegetable salad lunches and noodle dinners will not grow muscle. Have your meals focused around lean protein. I am keeping Costco in business with all the chicken breast I buy there. Eat lean meat with some greens, a lot. Egg white omelette for breakfast instead of oatmeal and fruit.

You need to find out your basal metabolism and daily energy expenditure so you can know how much to eat. Track your food with My Fitness Pal. And, unless those are numbers from the BodPod or another method, I wouldn't be surprised if you have underestimated your body fat percentage.

I also agree with pharm that you should check out /r/fitness - you can get good advice from people who know what they are doing. And yes, Crossfit is better ignored.
posted by Tanizaki at 7:05 AM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]

NB. If you reach 10% body fat without putting on any muscle (and currently you’re not putting on any muscle because your exercise regime is not allowing you to) then you’re going to look like a garden rake & your GP will start asking pointed questions about anorexia.

So, shorter version of the advice so far: Pick a *beginner* 3x a week whole body weightlifting routine (or body weight fitness if you prefer) and stick to it. Spend that fitness stipend on a personal trainer to make sure you get your technique right.

You’ve lost weight for 2 years straight: Take a long hard look at your diet, calculate your TDEE & start counting calories to make sure you’re getting enough. That’s means at a minimum meeting your TDEE & getting plenty of protein if you want to build any muscle at all.

Drop the boot camp, it’s a waste of time that’s designed to make you feel like you’re “doing something” & it’s creating extra work for muscles that need recovery time. Go for a run once or twice a week, because some cardio is good. Keep doing the yoga, because flexibility is awesome. Don’t even think about crossfit, because too many crossfit gyms are run by people who have been on a short crossfit course & think that qualification is sufficient.
posted by pharm at 7:34 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Here is my routine, that I am sharing with you guys. It is only my second week and I started with Back on Tuesday as Monday was a long weekend holiday (Labor day ) :) so I missed chest day. As mentioned I did 2 years of boot camping and I did gain immense back and overall strength, I was not overall satisfied with myself with my goal of bulking up. Also, I always thought was gaining muscle automatically reduces body fat, which I believe is more true for people that are over weight and slightly contradicts what some of you guys were talking about bulking versus cutting.
My routine:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sI_vnALNiMTXodZ8ZB2jiu22YZn4DvnGBZ5Lqp49fII/edit?usp=sharing

This is where I literally copied it from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znka9zjNFRw

What I got from you guys is
1. Get a trainer and discuss goals.
2. Start with small reps instead of 12x4
3. Form is more important than reps.
4. Rest/Recovery/More Calories...

Thank you.
posted by samcivic at 8:40 AM on September 16, 2015

Response by poster: I've used MyFitnessPal in the past 2 years. Stopped it because I did not need it any longer.
Checked it again, added my goal to gaining 6 pounds of muscle and it tells me I need 2790 calories 50% carbs (349g), 20% protein(140g) and 30% Fat(93g)

I think I need to start eating more. Yes, I do eat egg white veggie omelettes, and lots of chicken. My only concern is that I have heavy dinners as opposed to lunch and b'fast. Does this need changing? I do go for occasional walks if I do feel bloated after a late meal.
posted by samcivic at 9:08 AM on September 16, 2015

Honestly, just read the r/fitness getting started wiki page & FAQ from start to finish. All your questions are answered therein.
posted by pharm at 9:40 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

I saw the routine you shared. That is not a routine with entries like "chest", which is meaningless. Part of a routine would look like this, which is what I did today:

Legs
Squat, 2x5, 1x as many reps as possible
Romanian Deadlift, 3x10
Leg Press, 3x10
Standing Calf Raise, 3x10

So, I have no idea what exercises you are doing or how useful they are. And please don't tell me, for reasons below.

I always thought was gaining muscle automatically reduces body fat

Why would this be true? You can gain muscle and fat at the same time. In fact, that is just about how it always happens.

I am still unclear of your goal: do you want to lose fat or gain muscle? Pick one. You will gain some fat as you gain muscle, and you will lose some muscle as you lose fat. This is how it works. Your missions should definitely not be, "I want to gain muscle to lower my body fat percentage".

And yeah, as pharm says, you should get started with /r/fitness and ask questions there after you have read everything. You're probably going to get a mod warning for chatting if you keep posting updates and follow-up questions.
posted by Tanizaki at 11:24 AM on September 16, 2015

Tanizaki: His daily exercises are listed in separate tabs on that spreadsheet (the tabs are at the bottom). Looks like a fairly classic intermediate-ish split program to me, but it’s the wrong program anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.
posted by pharm at 11:33 AM on September 16, 2015