Where should we live in the Boston area?
September 7, 2015 9:44 AM Subscribe
My wife and I live with our 20 month old daughter in Cambridge, MA and we're researching options for moving to the suburbs. We live in Inman Square and love what we have but want to (affordably) have some more living and outdoor space. Which communities in the Boston area should we consider?
Some of the things we like about Cambridge:
- We can walk places and get to public transportation easily
- Property taxes are very reasonable (usually among the top 5 lowest in the state)
- Economic diversity: great mix of companies, retail, and education
- Nice playgrounds and public spaces
- Investment in public works is a priority
- Lots of family-friendly programming and kids' activities are available
- Neighborhoods are dense
- Public investment in making roads friendly to pedestrians and bicyclists
- I've lived there for over 10 years and love the quirky nature of the community
We'd like to find a place that has many of those attributes, plus:
- Easy public transportation to Boston/Cambridge (ideally Lechmere station)
- Driving distance to Boston of 45 minutes or less, without traffic
- People in the community tend to work in professional jobs
- Concentrated downtown area
- Safe bike trails
Some of the things we like about Cambridge:
- We can walk places and get to public transportation easily
- Property taxes are very reasonable (usually among the top 5 lowest in the state)
- Economic diversity: great mix of companies, retail, and education
- Nice playgrounds and public spaces
- Investment in public works is a priority
- Lots of family-friendly programming and kids' activities are available
- Neighborhoods are dense
- Public investment in making roads friendly to pedestrians and bicyclists
- I've lived there for over 10 years and love the quirky nature of the community
We'd like to find a place that has many of those attributes, plus:
- Easy public transportation to Boston/Cambridge (ideally Lechmere station)
- Driving distance to Boston of 45 minutes or less, without traffic
- People in the community tend to work in professional jobs
- Concentrated downtown area
- Safe bike trails
Response by poster: One item I forgot to mention: We'd like to find a good school district, too. That's probably one of the biggest factors, and I completely left it out.
posted by scottso17 at 10:35 AM on September 7, 2015
posted by scottso17 at 10:35 AM on September 7, 2015
Best answer: Melrose ticks a lot of your boxes, but I don't know about the school system. It's a short bus ride to the orange line, or you can take the commuter rail into Boston. Easy-ish access to 95, 93 and Rte 1, plus 28/Mcgrath O'Brien. I used to work across from the Lechmere T stop and live in Melrose and it would take maybe 20 minutes on a weekend (somewhat more with traffic, obvs). It's a small town surrounded by more densely populated ones, so shopping is good. The downtown area is nicely varied with restaurants, bakeries, small businesses, hardware stores, etc. Excellent investment in infrastructure/public works. You didn't mention what you consider affordable, but if you're in Cambridge already I can't imagine that it's too bad, comparatively. We're surrounded by the Fellsway, Breakheart Reservation, and lots of small parks, plus Wakefield is next door with Lake Quannapowitt, so your public spaces requirement would seem to be covered. Neighborhoods are not dense, however. And it's not really diverse or quirky (although it seems to be getting better lately).
posted by clone boulevard at 11:09 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by clone boulevard at 11:09 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
so not to be flip, but your list is basically, the same thing that every other bourgeois urban Boston Metro area parent is looking for; and that unity of demand is largely why Cambridge is expensive. Are there tradeoffs that you're willing to make to get more space?
Like, if you prioritize Bus/T/Commuter Rail access to Cambridge over a good downtown core, then Belmont and Watertown may be appropriate, but Belmont isn't going to give you the sort of vibrant dining and shopping options that Inman Square has.
Arlington and Somerville are definitely the closest in feature set to Cambridge, but they're also correspondingly as expensive. I've found that most of Somerville that isn't Spring Hill \ Winter Hill is indistinguishable from Inman Square when it comes to price and amenities. And Winter Hill does tend to have its bargains, but you'd still be trading away bikeability and have more average school system
Arlington is about as bourgeois as Cambridge is, has a good school system, but is all on buses (with the exception of the small set who live near the Minuteman and can walk/bike to the Red Line at Alewife).
(on preview: Melrose is also a solid contender, but their school system tends to lag compared to Arlington and Lexington. It's not a huge lag though, so it may be worth considering if your definition for your school requirements is for Above Average rather than Best In Class. Same goes for Roslindale, which has fantastic green space and a dense downtown core, but has a very average school system)
But, yeah, maybe it will help to rank and prioritize the features that you listed? Like if the most important thing is the school system, what will you trade away? The yard? The T access to Lechmere? The walkability?
posted by bl1nk at 11:26 AM on September 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
Like, if you prioritize Bus/T/Commuter Rail access to Cambridge over a good downtown core, then Belmont and Watertown may be appropriate, but Belmont isn't going to give you the sort of vibrant dining and shopping options that Inman Square has.
Arlington and Somerville are definitely the closest in feature set to Cambridge, but they're also correspondingly as expensive. I've found that most of Somerville that isn't Spring Hill \ Winter Hill is indistinguishable from Inman Square when it comes to price and amenities. And Winter Hill does tend to have its bargains, but you'd still be trading away bikeability and have more average school system
Arlington is about as bourgeois as Cambridge is, has a good school system, but is all on buses (with the exception of the small set who live near the Minuteman and can walk/bike to the Red Line at Alewife).
(on preview: Melrose is also a solid contender, but their school system tends to lag compared to Arlington and Lexington. It's not a huge lag though, so it may be worth considering if your definition for your school requirements is for Above Average rather than Best In Class. Same goes for Roslindale, which has fantastic green space and a dense downtown core, but has a very average school system)
But, yeah, maybe it will help to rank and prioritize the features that you listed? Like if the most important thing is the school system, what will you trade away? The yard? The T access to Lechmere? The walkability?
posted by bl1nk at 11:26 AM on September 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
Arlington or Somerville? I mean Inman Square seems to hit all your check boxes (including the supposed "plus" checkboxes), but if the question is affordability, then Arlington or Somerville would work OR consider North Cambridge, up near the Arlington Line, where things tend to get a little cheaper.
I think the OP has already eliminated those, but for others reading this question who haven't, North Cambridge and Somerville – even East Somerville – are not very affordable, if by "affordable," you are talking about a single family home under $500K.
posted by ignignokt at 12:33 PM on September 7, 2015
I think the OP has already eliminated those, but for others reading this question who haven't, North Cambridge and Somerville – even East Somerville – are not very affordable, if by "affordable," you are talking about a single family home under $500K.
posted by ignignokt at 12:33 PM on September 7, 2015
I'd say Watertown or Roslindale might get you close.... but what do you consider "more space" and affordable? Jamaica Plain would work but the schools aren't like Cambridge, and the single-family homes here have gone up a lot in the last ~5 years.
A more specific budget (i.e $500k for a 3 bedroom) would help narrow it down a bit, but you're basically going to be making a tradeoff. This is literally the question that every single upwardly-mobile middle-upper class young family is weighing in this city. It's not like you just haven't figured out the magic formula!
posted by barnone at 12:44 PM on September 7, 2015
A more specific budget (i.e $500k for a 3 bedroom) would help narrow it down a bit, but you're basically going to be making a tradeoff. This is literally the question that every single upwardly-mobile middle-upper class young family is weighing in this city. It's not like you just haven't figured out the magic formula!
posted by barnone at 12:44 PM on September 7, 2015
Put it this way: our friends have moved out to the very edge of Roslindale and NATICK to solve this problem. So.... something's gotta give, or your budget has to be more than I'm imagining!
posted by barnone at 12:46 PM on September 7, 2015
posted by barnone at 12:46 PM on September 7, 2015
What's your budget and how flexible? What on your list can be converted to "nice to have" if your budget is not flexible?
We just bought a big single family in City Point/Southie which ticks all these boxes. However, the trade off was big time renovating so our time also had to be flexible.
posted by floweredfish at 12:52 PM on September 7, 2015
We just bought a big single family in City Point/Southie which ticks all these boxes. However, the trade off was big time renovating so our time also had to be flexible.
posted by floweredfish at 12:52 PM on September 7, 2015
Best answer: Salem checks a lot of your boxes, but the trade-off for affordable housing, proximity to train, walkable downtown with lots of things to do and nice playgrounds is that the houses are small and you don't get much (if any) of a backyard. There's a single family house across the street from us that was just listed for $225K.
We moved from Somerville to Salem when we were ready to buy a house because the walkable downtown with lots of shops & restaurants was the most important thing to us. We also prioritized being able to walk to the train and have a 30 minute train ride into Boston. We have no outdoor space, but we do have a cute park around the corner, a bike path at the end of our street, and a 5 minute walk to the Common. The school system is struggling and is not fantastic, but I think there's some good energy trying to improve it. The Peabody Essex Museum is free for Salem residents and there's always tons of fun kids' activities going on around town.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 1:26 PM on September 7, 2015
We moved from Somerville to Salem when we were ready to buy a house because the walkable downtown with lots of shops & restaurants was the most important thing to us. We also prioritized being able to walk to the train and have a 30 minute train ride into Boston. We have no outdoor space, but we do have a cute park around the corner, a bike path at the end of our street, and a 5 minute walk to the Common. The school system is struggling and is not fantastic, but I think there's some good energy trying to improve it. The Peabody Essex Museum is free for Salem residents and there's always tons of fun kids' activities going on around town.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 1:26 PM on September 7, 2015
I am childless but have been told s'ville has gotten a lot better of late. Somerville is wicked expensive, though. Maybe Medford? It meets some of your criteria but I don't know about the school system. Also, I keep hearing that Everett is in the cusp of awesomeness.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:27 PM on September 7, 2015
posted by rmd1023 at 1:27 PM on September 7, 2015
Sorry, I hadn't caught on that you were looking to buy a house. I assumed you'd either rent a bigger apartment or buy a condo. If you're thinking of buying a house, then the question really does need a budget.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:48 PM on September 7, 2015
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:48 PM on September 7, 2015
Best answer: According to Boston magazine's most recent "Best Schools" rankings, your top 20 choices are:
Dover-Sherborn, Weston, Lexington, Wayland, Bedford, Concord-Carlisle, Harvard, Wellesley, Westborough, Newton, Sharon, Medfield, Lincoln-Sudbury, Holliston, Winchester, Manchester Essex , Marblehead, Northboro-Southboro, Westford and Brookline.
I can't find the AskMe, but someone asked this a while back and the same advice holds true: it's pretty typical for younger couples with little kids to move from Somerville/Cambridge to Arlington, then they move on up to Lexington.
I live in Lexington. We're on the bike path to Alewife and Bedford, we have open spaces, yards, a walkable town center where you can get coffee and some food. It's definitely the suburbs but the schools are REALLY GREAT and that's partly due to the $$$ they pour into the schools and partly that most parents here have advanced degrees, are avid readers and thinkers and really value education culturally.
It ticks off almost everything on your list but Lexington is VERY expensive, but that's because they put money into programs for the elderly, into community programming, and into the schools.
And I think that's what you're going to find in the Boston area. If you want a town that has all the amenities AND great schools, it's going to be an expensive town.
If you can update with your proposed budget, I'd be glad to help you think of great towns.
posted by kinetic at 2:39 PM on September 7, 2015
Dover-Sherborn, Weston, Lexington, Wayland, Bedford, Concord-Carlisle, Harvard, Wellesley, Westborough, Newton, Sharon, Medfield, Lincoln-Sudbury, Holliston, Winchester, Manchester Essex , Marblehead, Northboro-Southboro, Westford and Brookline.
I can't find the AskMe, but someone asked this a while back and the same advice holds true: it's pretty typical for younger couples with little kids to move from Somerville/Cambridge to Arlington, then they move on up to Lexington.
I live in Lexington. We're on the bike path to Alewife and Bedford, we have open spaces, yards, a walkable town center where you can get coffee and some food. It's definitely the suburbs but the schools are REALLY GREAT and that's partly due to the $$$ they pour into the schools and partly that most parents here have advanced degrees, are avid readers and thinkers and really value education culturally.
It ticks off almost everything on your list but Lexington is VERY expensive, but that's because they put money into programs for the elderly, into community programming, and into the schools.
And I think that's what you're going to find in the Boston area. If you want a town that has all the amenities AND great schools, it's going to be an expensive town.
If you can update with your proposed budget, I'd be glad to help you think of great towns.
posted by kinetic at 2:39 PM on September 7, 2015
The property taxes in Cambridge and Somerville are both low because of the universities paying a disproportionate amount to the city coffers (not that I'm complaining as a tax payer). When we were looking for homes it actually turned out to be cheaper to buy a place in Somerville than in Arlington despite the (slightly) lower prices in Arlington simply because the tax bill was that much lower.
posted by backseatpilot at 3:02 PM on September 7, 2015
posted by backseatpilot at 3:02 PM on September 7, 2015
Response by poster: To answer some of the questions and peanut gallery:
- We currently own a condo in Cambridge and want to buy a single family home. I don't have a specific budget number but looking for thoughts along the lines of @banjo_and_the_pork's suggestion of a town like Salem.
- Nothing is in stone. If a town meets some but not all criteria, that's OK. No one said every single box had to be checked.
- Schools are important - probably the most important.
- In terms of cost/affordability, one way to thinking about it is cost per square foot. That's what would make something more affordable that our current neighborhood. (Average price per square foot in Cambridge is $693 vs. $188 in Salem and $332 in Lexington, which @kinetic said was an expensive town - and hardly is by comparison to Cambridge per square foot.)
- Natick doesn't sounds horribly far away.
posted by scottso17 at 7:12 PM on September 7, 2015
- We currently own a condo in Cambridge and want to buy a single family home. I don't have a specific budget number but looking for thoughts along the lines of @banjo_and_the_pork's suggestion of a town like Salem.
- Nothing is in stone. If a town meets some but not all criteria, that's OK. No one said every single box had to be checked.
- Schools are important - probably the most important.
- In terms of cost/affordability, one way to thinking about it is cost per square foot. That's what would make something more affordable that our current neighborhood. (Average price per square foot in Cambridge is $693 vs. $188 in Salem and $332 in Lexington, which @kinetic said was an expensive town - and hardly is by comparison to Cambridge per square foot.)
- Natick doesn't sounds horribly far away.
posted by scottso17 at 7:12 PM on September 7, 2015
It's the opposite of moving to the suburbs, but we just moved from Somerville (Davis Square) to buy a single-family in Dorchester. Prices were about half what we were seeing in Somerville. We're right on the red line (Ashmont), and my commute to downtown is the same distance, just in the other direction.
It's not as quirky/hipster-fied as we're used to, but we've been really impressed with the diversity (living somewhere less segregated had become a priority for us), the beautiful old houses (even suburban-seeming) in some areas, and the established neighborhoods. Dorchester is really different neighborhood by neighborhood and street by street, so it is IMO worth exploring if you've discounted it based on reputation or a particular area. (Also, I am obviously interested in selling it at this point!)
It's Boston schools, which is not necessarily exciting on the face of it, but I like the idea (purely theoretical for us at current) of lots of choices, including some excellent charters and exam schools. (We also did the math on private school and found that that option was probably cheaper than buying in a "good" district.)
posted by teditrix at 7:34 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's not as quirky/hipster-fied as we're used to, but we've been really impressed with the diversity (living somewhere less segregated had become a priority for us), the beautiful old houses (even suburban-seeming) in some areas, and the established neighborhoods. Dorchester is really different neighborhood by neighborhood and street by street, so it is IMO worth exploring if you've discounted it based on reputation or a particular area. (Also, I am obviously interested in selling it at this point!)
It's Boston schools, which is not necessarily exciting on the face of it, but I like the idea (purely theoretical for us at current) of lots of choices, including some excellent charters and exam schools. (We also did the math on private school and found that that option was probably cheaper than buying in a "good" district.)
posted by teditrix at 7:34 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: You sound like us. We live in Cambridge (not far from you!) with our 20 month old and our rent is sky-freaking-high. Have you considered Canton, Dedham, Randolph? Blue Hills access is a big plus In our opinion.
posted by Cygnet at 8:05 PM on September 7, 2015
posted by Cygnet at 8:05 PM on September 7, 2015
Best answer: - Schools are important - probably the most important.
Can you afford private school? Especially if you factor in a lower cost of living? Then you should really look at Salem. There are a lot of private school options very close by. If not, then it's probably not the place for you.
posted by Miko at 10:28 PM on September 7, 2015
Can you afford private school? Especially if you factor in a lower cost of living? Then you should really look at Salem. There are a lot of private school options very close by. If not, then it's probably not the place for you.
posted by Miko at 10:28 PM on September 7, 2015
I just moved to Melrose and it's the best. Not sure what the "lagging schools" comment is based on above. By all metrics we can determine Melrose schools are great.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:43 AM on September 8, 2015
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:43 AM on September 8, 2015
For transparency, my comment on Melrose was mostly based on review of Boston Magazine's 2015 public school ranking chart (where Melrose is ranked 78 out of 125), but I'm willing to cede that position to other, more useful data sources.
posted by bl1nk at 8:59 AM on September 8, 2015
posted by bl1nk at 8:59 AM on September 8, 2015
- In terms of cost/affordability, one way to thinking about it is cost per square foot. That's what would make something more affordable that our current neighborhood. (Average price per square foot in Cambridge is $693 vs. $188 in Salem and $332 in Lexington, which @kinetic said was an expensive town - and hardly is by comparison to Cambridge per square foot.)
Median housing prices in Lexington are also $1.4 million compared to 800k in Cambridge. So, certainly, you can buy a lot of house in Lexington for a lot less than what you'd pay in Cambridge, but it's not like there are a lot of options for folks who are trying to take $300k of condo equity in Inman Square and upgrade it into a single family in Lexington with an affordable mortgage payment. That's why, as kinetic pointed out, people buy in Arlington first. Then they're one kitchen reno away from boosting themselves into Lexington.
(I say the above mildly tongue-in-cheek, but I've known a few couples who've done the following plan: live in Cambridge, get pregnant, sell condo, move to Arlington/Natick/Framingham, renovate kitchen, sell house for more, move to Lexington/Southborough/Concord before kids are in first grade.)
posted by bl1nk at 10:38 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
The usual Belmont/Arlington/Lexington/Newton answers are all pretty expensive, but they have great schools.
Thoughts: West Newton or Auburndale or Nonantum are the cheaper parts of Newton, still have walkable commercial areas, have good access to the green line, pike, and commuter rail. Newton schools are great, and I was surprised at how diverse the families in West Newton were.
I've also had friends move to Bedford and Acton from Cambridge for the same reasons. Basically, nothing is as dense as our (awesome) neighborhood, but a bunch of the local burbs are pretty cool.
posted by ldthomps at 11:15 AM on September 8, 2015
Thoughts: West Newton or Auburndale or Nonantum are the cheaper parts of Newton, still have walkable commercial areas, have good access to the green line, pike, and commuter rail. Newton schools are great, and I was surprised at how diverse the families in West Newton were.
I've also had friends move to Bedford and Acton from Cambridge for the same reasons. Basically, nothing is as dense as our (awesome) neighborhood, but a bunch of the local burbs are pretty cool.
posted by ldthomps at 11:15 AM on September 8, 2015
Not sure why you seem kinda annoyed at our responses! It's not really a question that can be answered without a budget parameter.
Natick is very far in terms of commuting time if you work in Boston or Cambridge. If you're honestly willing to go that far out and seem to have done the math for price per-square foot comparison, and education is the most important to you, then Lexington and Arlington are your choices. It's not easy to get a $500k house in those areas without needing some capital to improve it. Here's one $500k house on the market in Arlington. Here's another $500k house in Arlington that the listing states needs a 100% complete renovation. If your budget is more like $225k you're going to be looking in distinctly different areas. Here's a $400k house in Natick that was on the market for months at $420k and didn't sell. Either it's priced too high for the area or there's something going on with it.
I think you need to honestly assess your budget before you start figuring out neighborhoods. If the distance/time to Boston is because of commuting for jobs, that needs to be taken into consideration because traffic sucks and not every neighborhood/region has easy access to public transit into the city.
posted by barnone at 11:28 AM on September 8, 2015
Natick is very far in terms of commuting time if you work in Boston or Cambridge. If you're honestly willing to go that far out and seem to have done the math for price per-square foot comparison, and education is the most important to you, then Lexington and Arlington are your choices. It's not easy to get a $500k house in those areas without needing some capital to improve it. Here's one $500k house on the market in Arlington. Here's another $500k house in Arlington that the listing states needs a 100% complete renovation. If your budget is more like $225k you're going to be looking in distinctly different areas. Here's a $400k house in Natick that was on the market for months at $420k and didn't sell. Either it's priced too high for the area or there's something going on with it.
I think you need to honestly assess your budget before you start figuring out neighborhoods. If the distance/time to Boston is because of commuting for jobs, that needs to be taken into consideration because traffic sucks and not every neighborhood/region has easy access to public transit into the city.
posted by barnone at 11:28 AM on September 8, 2015
Response by poster: @barnone: I definitely have a budget in mind but wanting to decide on other factors first, then zero in on what's available. Home improvements aren't out of the question. Also, my budget is private. I don't want to share it here. I'd love any ideas that disregard budget.
On commuting time, traveling off-hours is OK. We like public transit but it's not a requirement (nor is anything on the list). I've driven Natick -> Cambridge off-peak in well under 30 minutes. (Maybe I drive faster than most people?) I used to commute to/from Marlborough off-hours in about 40 minutes. So I'm puzzled by why someone would want to rule that out for me when I gave nothing to indicate that it would be off-limits.
I listed out the things that we like but I think many responses are interpretting them as requirements. They aren't and I'm puzzled by that interpretation.
> It's not like you just haven't figured out the magic formula!
Well, yeah... but I'm not as familiar with all the places around town as some of you are. For example, I've never been to Melrose (didn't even know where it was on the map), and that came us as a great recommendation - nor was I thinking about the Blue Hills area. Those ideas are giving me more to explore, and I appreciate that.
posted by scottso17 at 11:50 AM on September 8, 2015
On commuting time, traveling off-hours is OK. We like public transit but it's not a requirement (nor is anything on the list). I've driven Natick -> Cambridge off-peak in well under 30 minutes. (Maybe I drive faster than most people?) I used to commute to/from Marlborough off-hours in about 40 minutes. So I'm puzzled by why someone would want to rule that out for me when I gave nothing to indicate that it would be off-limits.
I listed out the things that we like but I think many responses are interpretting them as requirements. They aren't and I'm puzzled by that interpretation.
> It's not like you just haven't figured out the magic formula!
Well, yeah... but I'm not as familiar with all the places around town as some of you are. For example, I've never been to Melrose (didn't even know where it was on the map), and that came us as a great recommendation - nor was I thinking about the Blue Hills area. Those ideas are giving me more to explore, and I appreciate that.
posted by scottso17 at 11:50 AM on September 8, 2015
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posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:18 AM on September 7, 2015