Is 45 too old to become a developer?
August 29, 2015 2:07 PM Subscribe
I've been a digital/interactive project manager since 1997. Now I want to go through an 18 week immersion program in web development and jump the fence to become a developer. But I'm 45 years old. Am I too old to get hired?
In almost 20 years as a project manager I've worked on any kind of web based project you can think of: back-end inventory systems, mobile sales tools, web site design, mobile web and iOS apps, games, etc. In July I quit my job - I just could not be a project manager anymore. I applied to The Flatiron School for an 18 week immersive course in web development. It's focused on Ruby on Rails but also covers html, javascript and CSS. I've started to do the pre-work (on line program teaching basics of ruby and front end programming) and I really love it. I feel like I may have found my calling. My only concern is this: at 45 years of age am I too old to land a junior programmer job? I have enough savings to cover the salary decrease for a couple of years but I don't want to invest 15k (tuition for the course) into a program that is not going to lead to a job because of age.
In almost 20 years as a project manager I've worked on any kind of web based project you can think of: back-end inventory systems, mobile sales tools, web site design, mobile web and iOS apps, games, etc. In July I quit my job - I just could not be a project manager anymore. I applied to The Flatiron School for an 18 week immersive course in web development. It's focused on Ruby on Rails but also covers html, javascript and CSS. I've started to do the pre-work (on line program teaching basics of ruby and front end programming) and I really love it. I feel like I may have found my calling. My only concern is this: at 45 years of age am I too old to land a junior programmer job? I have enough savings to cover the salary decrease for a couple of years but I don't want to invest 15k (tuition for the course) into a program that is not going to lead to a job because of age.
I don't know anything about the Flatiron School, but speaking solely to the age question: no, I don't think you are too old.
It's true that youth is fetishised in tech, and particularly in Silicon Valley. But that's a characteristic of a young industry, and as time passes, the skills required to do the work get more broadly distributed, and what is "normal" therefore also broadens out. So a 45+ developer is going to get more normal over time, rather than less.
That said, if you do this I would suggest a few things:
When you're applying for developer jobs, I'd downplay the part about how you couldn't bear to project-manage any more, and emphasise the part about how natural and fun programming feels to you. Nobody wants to hire dissatisfied refugees, they want to hire people who hunger to do the kind of job they have.
I'd generally aim to apply for positions with established companies, big companies, and companies in industries that existed pre-internet. They will have a corporate culture that's less youth-obsessed than e.g. startups are.
And, you will want to be careful to not trigger hiring managers' bad stereotypes of older people -- that you are tired or out of the loop or stuck in the past. That's pretty easy: it's just something you would want to put a little emphasis on. You can do it by dressing a little young, name-dropping current products and services you use, and generally aiming for a demeanour that's overall alert and energetic and positive. Avoid saying "old people" stuff, like, particularly, making fun of new things in a world-weary seen-it-all way. Like, "Uber-schmuber" and that kind of thing. (You don't sound like you do that, it's just a common trap for older people.)
Good luck! And on preview, +1 to Cool Papa Bell who said similar stuff more succinctly :)
posted by Susan PG at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2015 [10 favorites]
It's true that youth is fetishised in tech, and particularly in Silicon Valley. But that's a characteristic of a young industry, and as time passes, the skills required to do the work get more broadly distributed, and what is "normal" therefore also broadens out. So a 45+ developer is going to get more normal over time, rather than less.
That said, if you do this I would suggest a few things:
When you're applying for developer jobs, I'd downplay the part about how you couldn't bear to project-manage any more, and emphasise the part about how natural and fun programming feels to you. Nobody wants to hire dissatisfied refugees, they want to hire people who hunger to do the kind of job they have.
I'd generally aim to apply for positions with established companies, big companies, and companies in industries that existed pre-internet. They will have a corporate culture that's less youth-obsessed than e.g. startups are.
And, you will want to be careful to not trigger hiring managers' bad stereotypes of older people -- that you are tired or out of the loop or stuck in the past. That's pretty easy: it's just something you would want to put a little emphasis on. You can do it by dressing a little young, name-dropping current products and services you use, and generally aiming for a demeanour that's overall alert and energetic and positive. Avoid saying "old people" stuff, like, particularly, making fun of new things in a world-weary seen-it-all way. Like, "Uber-schmuber" and that kind of thing. (You don't sound like you do that, it's just a common trap for older people.)
Good luck! And on preview, +1 to Cool Papa Bell who said similar stuff more succinctly :)
posted by Susan PG at 2:40 PM on August 29, 2015 [10 favorites]
As a digital project manager, you're way ahead of anyone getting into programming from like, publishing. The project managers will love you because you'll understand what they need more than any 25 year old who never learned what project managers are for and think you're an annoying admin getting in the way of their genius.
Go for bigger companies, not startups.
posted by zutalors! at 2:47 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Go for bigger companies, not startups.
posted by zutalors! at 2:47 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
If I were you I'd try teaching myself for a month first.
Rails is remarkably easy to get going on but once you have to actually solve problems you will find that you still have to do all the nasty debugging, patching and version conflict stuff. Going it alone educationally will let you know if you are up for that. Plus new versions of everything in the rails world drops every bloody week so any course you take ends up being outdated before your check even clears. Do a few of the self guided things - Learn Ruby the Hard Way, The Rails Tutorial and go to a ruby pre-conf and such before dropping 15K on a course.
If this works for you buy me a beer someday for saving you 15k. If not you are really no worse off.
posted by srboisvert at 2:58 PM on August 29, 2015 [12 favorites]
Rails is remarkably easy to get going on but once you have to actually solve problems you will find that you still have to do all the nasty debugging, patching and version conflict stuff. Going it alone educationally will let you know if you are up for that. Plus new versions of everything in the rails world drops every bloody week so any course you take ends up being outdated before your check even clears. Do a few of the self guided things - Learn Ruby the Hard Way, The Rails Tutorial and go to a ruby pre-conf and such before dropping 15K on a course.
If this works for you buy me a beer someday for saving you 15k. If not you are really no worse off.
posted by srboisvert at 2:58 PM on August 29, 2015 [12 favorites]
One of the big differentiators between 20-somethings and 40-somethings is willingness to put in hours. Do you have a family? Are you willing to put 80 hour weeks when it's called for? If you need or expect to go home at 6:00 PM every night or have soccer games you need to attend on Saturdays, it will put you at a disadvantage at being hired in certain companies.
This is less of an issue in bigger and non-tech companies, but it's definitely an issue in tech and startups.
posted by cnc at 3:08 PM on August 29, 2015
This is less of an issue in bigger and non-tech companies, but it's definitely an issue in tech and startups.
posted by cnc at 3:08 PM on August 29, 2015
I am in my late 50s and have a somewhat similar story! I started out as a front-end developer in the late 90s (and yeah I was old then too). I moved into Project Management around 2003 and I hated it. After the crash in 2008 I decided that if the world was that unstable I wanted to go back to coding because that is what I really loved. At that point I was freelancing, getting work from people I knew from the late 90s, and a few I found on Craig's List - it was a rough time for everyone and I was lucky that people were willing to take a chance on me.
After about 3 years of freelancing I decided I needed to go full-time, and I did get a bit of side-eye about my age when I was interviewing. I found a small firm of people who all started out in the late 90s as well, and I've been there for the last 4 years. I do feel as though I've been hiding out there a little bit, but lately I've started attending some meetups and was surprised to see a little bit of diversity.
I was pretty up-front about having been a project manager and hating it, emphasizing my love for coding, because I had to explain those years of not coding, and it didn't seem to bother anyone at all. I also wanted to make it clear that I didn't want to be sidelined back into project management.
I won't kid you that it will be easy and that nobody will be surprised to see you walk through the door, but you will find a place somewhere if that is what you really want to do.
posted by maggiemaggie at 3:53 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
After about 3 years of freelancing I decided I needed to go full-time, and I did get a bit of side-eye about my age when I was interviewing. I found a small firm of people who all started out in the late 90s as well, and I've been there for the last 4 years. I do feel as though I've been hiding out there a little bit, but lately I've started attending some meetups and was surprised to see a little bit of diversity.
I was pretty up-front about having been a project manager and hating it, emphasizing my love for coding, because I had to explain those years of not coding, and it didn't seem to bother anyone at all. I also wanted to make it clear that I didn't want to be sidelined back into project management.
I won't kid you that it will be easy and that nobody will be surprised to see you walk through the door, but you will find a place somewhere if that is what you really want to do.
posted by maggiemaggie at 3:53 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
spicynuts, I should also say, if you would like to memail please do, since our backgrounds and challenges sound pretty similar.
posted by maggiemaggie at 4:06 PM on August 29, 2015
posted by maggiemaggie at 4:06 PM on August 29, 2015
I have to add this is some of the best advice towards any career change:
"When you're applying for xxxxxx jobs, I'd downplay the part about how you couldn't bear to xxxxx any more, and emphasise the part about how natural and fun (skills/job change) feels to you. Nobody wants to hire dissatisfied refugees, they want to hire people who hunger to do the kind of job they have."
Awesome advice Susan PG!
posted by Funmonkey1 at 6:26 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
"When you're applying for xxxxxx jobs, I'd downplay the part about how you couldn't bear to xxxxx any more, and emphasise the part about how natural and fun (skills/job change) feels to you. Nobody wants to hire dissatisfied refugees, they want to hire people who hunger to do the kind of job they have."
Awesome advice Susan PG!
posted by Funmonkey1 at 6:26 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
it's definitely an issue in tech and startups
I work in "tech" and it is not an issue when I come in to the office at 7:30 and leave at 4. Many of my coworkers have families and do similar. This may be an issue in some companies, but it's not a problem for the whole sector.
posted by kdar at 10:23 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
I work in "tech" and it is not an issue when I come in to the office at 7:30 and leave at 4. Many of my coworkers have families and do similar. This may be an issue in some companies, but it's not a problem for the whole sector.
posted by kdar at 10:23 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
One way you might describe your transition is to say that as a project manager you got to see all the exciting work that developers were doing and you wanted to be a part of that, not just on the outside looking in.
posted by CathyG at 7:41 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by CathyG at 7:41 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
No, you're not too old... as long as you're still eager to learn, can work well with much younger people as peers, and aren't looking to coast to retirement once you reach a certain level. I think a certain amount of almost child-like enthusiasm goes a long way in overcoming any age-related prejudices.
I strongly recommend making full use of your project management experience. I'm assuming you ended up hating it, but those skills can elevate you from a junior web dev to someone with broad experience. The best web devs aren't just coders, they have something more to contribute and give the team a wider perspective.
And while I'm sure that course is fine, I'm wary of people relying on expensive courses when ultimately you still need to be self-motivated enough to learn by doing. If a course helps you with confidence and motivation, great, but you still need to prove yourself afterwards. Even a slightly rough'n'ready personal project that attempts something interesting would impress me far more than any course certificate.
(that's all based on my experience as a 44 year old web dev/consultant in the UK who's mostly worked with non-startups; obviously may be different where you are)
posted by malevolent at 9:05 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I strongly recommend making full use of your project management experience. I'm assuming you ended up hating it, but those skills can elevate you from a junior web dev to someone with broad experience. The best web devs aren't just coders, they have something more to contribute and give the team a wider perspective.
And while I'm sure that course is fine, I'm wary of people relying on expensive courses when ultimately you still need to be self-motivated enough to learn by doing. If a course helps you with confidence and motivation, great, but you still need to prove yourself afterwards. Even a slightly rough'n'ready personal project that attempts something interesting would impress me far more than any course certificate.
(that's all based on my experience as a 44 year old web dev/consultant in the UK who's mostly worked with non-startups; obviously may be different where you are)
posted by malevolent at 9:05 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Appreciate all the advice. I don't have a family so I am not hampered by the need to leave early for soccer games or insist on 40 hours a week to be home for dinner. I actually want to bust ass and learn like a sponge and I figure long hours will be part of that. Do you think that I should look for more broader language experience than just Ruby or will that be a good enough start and I can build any additional language skills from there?
posted by spicynuts at 10:50 AM on August 30, 2015
posted by spicynuts at 10:50 AM on August 30, 2015
Do you think that I should look for more broader language experience than just Ruby or will that be a good enough start and I can build any additional language skills from there?
If you are a good developer, learning new languages is not difficult. I would focus on learning one language well and then branching out. Ruby is a fine choice: lots of web apps are written in it, so it's marketable; and it's got a large following so there is lots of good documentation online.
I also like 7 Languages in 7 Weeks, which showcases a bunch of different languages of very different conceptions, and will expose you to different programming paradigms.
posted by kdar at 4:05 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you are a good developer, learning new languages is not difficult. I would focus on learning one language well and then branching out. Ruby is a fine choice: lots of web apps are written in it, so it's marketable; and it's got a large following so there is lots of good documentation online.
I also like 7 Languages in 7 Weeks, which showcases a bunch of different languages of very different conceptions, and will expose you to different programming paradigms.
posted by kdar at 4:05 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
It is in the smaller, more insular companies and fun start ups where they might look at you as not having the right "culture fit," but that's their problem, not yours.
Another thing to consider is compensation. If you're going after a junior programming job as a recent graduate, you won't be compensated like a 45-year-old person with 20 years of experience. If they sense a mismatch of expectations in that department, that will definitely hurt your chances.
In the end, it will come down to what kind of story you can tell about how you got here. You need to be able to clearly and energetically elucidate why you made this career change and why it's exciting to you. If you leave it up to an interviewer's imagination, they might start thinking you made this change because something is fundamentally wrong with you as an employee and now you're grasping at career straws.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:36 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]