Your best sickness prevention methods:

December 5, 2005 10:02 AM

Let's hear your method for preventing colds and other sicknesses!

Hello there. I have a set of rules I try to follow this time of year to prevent myself from becoming sick. They are as follows:

1) Drink 64oz of h2o per day.
2) Wash hands on an overly regular basis, plus anytime you are about to eat.
3) Take a multivitamin daily.
4) Keep hands away from all northern orifices (mouth, nose, eyes, etc.)

Question: What else should I be doing to prevent myself from becoming sick? I'm looking for at-home, over-the-counter methods - nothing involving a doctor or medicine that would require a prescription (three cheers for lack of health insurance!)

posted by nitsuj to Health & Fitness (65 answers total)

Regular exercise, lots of vitamin C.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that washing hands on an overly regular basis can actually lead to colds...
posted by dead_ at 10:06 AM on December 5, 2005

My university recently did some research that proves that wrapping up warm prevents colds, so do that!
posted by Lotto at 10:07 AM on December 5, 2005

Get plenty of sleep. If you don't get enough rest, your immune system won't be as effective at killing the bastards that will get into you, no matter how many other precautions you take.
posted by borkencode at 10:08 AM on December 5, 2005

When I feel an illness may be imminent, I start taking garlic. My method is direct ingestion of a single garlic bulb a day by swallowing. I usually cut one in half and swallow both bits.
posted by ursus_comiter at 10:10 AM on December 5, 2005

My method is direct ingestion of a single garlic bulb a day by swallowing.

Please please tell me you mean clove, right?
posted by ny_scotsman at 10:13 AM on December 5, 2005

When I feel the early warning symptoms, I take a LOT of vitamin C - I'm talking Linus Pauling quantities: 6 grams.

I've tried all the other echinacea, zinc, gallons of water, blah blah blah (yes, garlic too), but the Linus Pauling approach is the only one that has - for me - truly stopped a cold in it's tracks.
posted by forallmankind at 10:17 AM on December 5, 2005

I second the sleep thing. Another idea is to drink ginger tea once a day (boil 2" of ginger root per mug, chopped into about 1 cm^3 cubes, for 10-15 minutes).

Also, kombu water (the stuff you get after soaking kombu overnight as part of preparing dashi) is supposed to help... primarily digestion, but as an overall tonic as well.
posted by ny_scotsman at 10:18 AM on December 5, 2005 [1 favorite]

I don't mean this as an attack on the above posters, but I want to point out that vitamin C as cold prevention and cure is a long-running myth. Despite Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling's 1970s books, it's been scientifically demonstrated repeatedly as ineffective 1 2. Nevertheless if it does work for you, science be damned and stick with what works.

Chicken soup however is effective :D
posted by junesix at 10:24 AM on December 5, 2005

lots of vitamin C.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that washing hands on an overly regular basis can actually lead to colds...
posted by dead_ at 10:06 AM PST on December 5

There is no evidence that taking high doses of vitamin C will prevent colds.

In addition, regular and thorough handwashing with soap and water will prevent the spread of many communicable diseases.

Please refrain from answering questions here when you are clearly ignorant or misinformed.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:30 AM on December 5, 2005

Also, I remember reading somewhere that washing hands on an overly regular basis can actually lead to colds...

Got a cite? Without one, I'm very very very very skeptical of that claim (links recycled from this thread).

As far as I know, the OP's #2 and #4 are the only things with strong evidence behind them.
posted by sennoma at 10:32 AM on December 5, 2005

Just to chime in and second the recommendations for:
- washing them hands
- getting plenty of sleep on a regular basis

I'd also suggest
- less sweets and junk food
- less alcohol
- exercise

I guess the bottom line here is that if you want to stay healthy, live healthy.
posted by willmize at 10:44 AM on December 5, 2005

It may be a placebo, maybe not, but I start taking Airborne every three hours and that seems to nip things in the bud.
Also gargling saltwater, saline nasal spray and avoiding children.
posted by Sara Anne at 10:46 AM on December 5, 2005

I'm a dope -- willmize has another two proven methods right there. Good sleep and regular exercise are good for your immune system, both innate and adaptive. Both start to help as soon as you get going on them, but work best over a longer period of regular "application".

I bet there's more I'm forgetting so I'm gonna shut up now.
posted by sennoma at 10:49 AM on December 5, 2005

When I am just starting to feel that sore throat coming on Yin Chiao (Tablets-Plum Flower brand) works very well for me. I take 1.5x the dose for 3x and usually forget to follow up with any more cause I feel great.
Gan Mao Ling is a herbal remedy for colds w/o the sore throat. I don't have the same results.
posted by pointilist at 10:57 AM on December 5, 2005

I take Elderberry during the flu season. It's supposed to keep the respiratory system strong. Seems to work for me.
posted by idiotfactory at 10:58 AM on December 5, 2005

If you have access to a steam room, frequent that.

I'm sitting here sick now-and I blame the fact that my health club steam room was under repair for a week.

Seriously, it had been about two years since I got a cold, and I credit exercise, eating right, sleep-AND that steam room.
posted by konolia at 10:59 AM on December 5, 2005

Well, I typically try not to wash my hands after riding the subway. Anecdotal, but I haven't been sick in two years.
posted by Captaintripps at 11:02 AM on December 5, 2005

Optimus Chyme: I hope your comments aren't directed at me. I am in complete agreement that there is no concrete evidence that Vitamin C is a cure for colds. What I wrote in my post was that I had experimented with different cures, and this is the one that worked for me. It might work for someone else, it might not - I'm just responding directly to the question, "Let's hear your method for preventing colds and other sicknesses." That is all.
posted by forallmankind at 11:03 AM on December 5, 2005

Optimus Chyme, what's your view on newer research about vit C and colds? In two seconds of searching PubMed, I found two papers that contradict QuackWatch (well, they contradict each other, too...)

Effect of Vitamin C on common colds:

Conclusion:A randomized, controlled 5-year trial suggests that vitamin C supplementation significantly reduces the frequency of the common cold but had no apparent effect on the duration or severity of the common cold.

Vitamin C for preventing and fighting the common cold:

CONCLUSIONS: The failure of vitamin C supplementation to reduce the incidence of colds in the normal population indicates that routine mega-dose prophylaxis is not rationally justified for community use. But evidence shows that it could be justified in persons exposed to brief periods of severe physical exercise and/or cold environments. Also, the consistent and statistically significant small benefits on duration and severity for those using regular vitamin C prophylaxis indicates that vitamin C plays some role in respiratory defence mechanisms.

On preview: what forallmankind said, too. The asker was looking for people's methods, and answers are inevitably going to include placebos.
posted by jbrjake at 11:09 AM on December 5, 2005

All good advice I’m sure, and I’ve tried most of it, but the ONLY thing that has worked like the proverbial charm for us is xylitol, in the form of Xlear nasal spray. At the first sign of stinging throat or stuffy nose, I spray or drip enough of this into my tiltled-back nose so that I can actually feel the liquid hit the back of my throat/nasal passages. I also attack from the mouth by taking a few Xlear mints or chewing some of their gum, which also has excellent benefits for tooth decay. Not affiliated, etc., just totally impressed with this stuff: no side effects, inexpensive, tastes good, WORKS.

Used to get 3-5 sinus infections a year; haven’t had a single one since starting with Xlear 4 years ago.
posted by dpcoffin at 11:12 AM on December 5, 2005

Cold-fx
posted by KathyK at 11:13 AM on December 5, 2005

Sorry about those broken links, wish to hell I could figure out what’s wrong with them...
Anyway, here they are again (fingers crossed):

xylitol

Xlear
posted by dpcoffin at 11:19 AM on December 5, 2005

I eat very spicy dishes and lots of hot sauce. If I feel a cold coming on, I will usually have a omellete with lots of onions, garlic, and hot sauce. For lunch, maybe some jerk chicken, and for dinner, a blazing hot chicken vindaloo.

An old Bermudian that I work with swears by brandy, garlic, and onion. And a lot of his countrymen recommend jumping in the ocean and making sure plenty of salt water goes up your nose. I am not kidding.
posted by jasondigitized at 11:22 AM on December 5, 2005

Interesting about the steam room, konolia -- first time I ever visited one, my host mentioned how great they are when you have a cold. And it's true -- I wanna live in there when I'm under the weather (only problem is with my eventual exit -- it's so cold out there!) But I've never heard of it as a preventative.

The one I've heard of, and had a little luck with, is frying up a bunch of garlic and shitake mushrooms at the first sign of symptoms.
posted by Rash at 11:33 AM on December 5, 2005

My Italian friends used to recommend grappa and cigarettes. The first to keep you warm, the second to "help" all the stuff in your lungs to come up.

I've found that staying away from people with small children (and the small children themselves, I imagine) has made a huge difference.
posted by occhiblu at 11:34 AM on December 5, 2005

Airborne once a day if I feel sickly or have spent time with the kidlets in my family, getting enough sleep, and I wash my hands before each meal, after using the restroom, and when returning home from being out and about. (And if I am working on someone else's keyboard. Ew.)
posted by schnee at 11:40 AM on December 5, 2005

Jbrjake, the Japanese study has some hinky protocols, if you ask me, and as for the second, there's nothing really to report. It's important to eat healthy, and that includes getting a proper amount of vitamic C, but I repeat that there is no evidence - including the studies you linked to - that megadoses are beneficial.

Or hey you could take KathyK's recommendation and reduce the number of colds you get per year by 0.3! Oh man, and for the low low price of $527.22 for a 12 month supply!

I suppose I just don't see the benefit of cramming my every orifice with sweet oil or garlic or whatever the fuck and gobbling the latest homeonaturoloco crap a bunch of scam artists are advertising, all for a negligible reduction in frequency or severity.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:48 AM on December 5, 2005

1. Washing hands.
2. Wellness Formula, "the #1-selling vitamin and herbal winter supplement." Used by all sorts of people who can't get sick (actors is who I picked it up from).

Sadly, none of the above will help you if you live in NYC. Too much contact with people. And I don't know if I'd trust Italians, they think fans make you sick.
posted by scazza at 12:01 PM on December 5, 2005

Zicam has kicked 3 colds so far this winter for me.
posted by _zed_ at 12:07 PM on December 5, 2005

It's all about the C. C, like amino acids, passes through the body very quickly. Every three hours you should have protein, C, and omega...
posted by ewkpates at 12:09 PM on December 5, 2005

I eat organic / healthily and always avoid speaking to folk who are spluttering and sneezing. I haven't had a cold in 4 years.
posted by brautigan at 12:10 PM on December 5, 2005

Oh, btw my handwashing is also pretty lax.
posted by brautigan at 12:12 PM on December 5, 2005

2. Wellness Formula, "the #1-selling vitamin and herbal winter supplement." Used by all sorts of people who can't get sick (actors is who I picked it up from).

I'm not buying that unless there's a whole bunch of nonsense marketing bullshit gobbledygook that goes along with it.

Wellness is uniquely effective because it goes deep to the root cause of body system imbalances. This Bio-Aligned Formula supports interlocking components of the immune system-mucous membranes, cell-mediated immunity and humoral immunity-and also addresses antioxidant defense

Oh thank god!
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:13 PM on December 5, 2005

It's all about the C. C, like amino acids, passes through the body very quickly. Every three hours you should have protein, C, and omega...
posted by ewkpates at 12:09 PM PST on December 5

jesus christ i give up
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:14 PM on December 5, 2005

I second the ColdFX. This might be a Canadian only thing at the moment, but according to Maclean's, it has been clinically proven to work and is used by Margaret Atwood, NHL players, and (take this for what it's worth) Don Cherry.
posted by reformedjerk at 12:19 PM on December 5, 2005

Another vote for ColdFX...that stuff just saved my ass. I can't afford to get sick during exams. I don't know if it's just a placebo effect, but it does actually seem to work in a way that vitamin C never has.
posted by johnsmith415 at 12:34 PM on December 5, 2005

1. No dairy
2. Lots of fruits and veggies (at least nine servings a day).

I second the handwashing, and I also take a multivitamin, though I do not know if that has any effect.
posted by davar at 12:39 PM on December 5, 2005

Optimus Chyme: I wish you would give up. If you haven't got anything positive to offer, I'm not quite sure what value you think your posts have here.

As I have noted - and you have chosen to ignore - the post is not, "can anyone prove or disprove the efficacy of Vitamin C in preventing the common cold."

Obviously there is not "a cure" for the common cold, otherwise we'd all be taking it and nobody would ever be off sick. The human body is very complex, and if it wasn't then we'd be able to prove beyond doubt that cigarettes cause cancer, and find cures for HIV and heart disease that works for everyone. But we can't. And if we go to the doctor and say, "how can I prevent a cold?" he's not going to give you a concrete answer. So we try what we can, and do what works best for us. And that's the best we can do. And if we have the opportunity to share what works for us, then I want to hear about it. I think that's what nitsuj wants too.
posted by forallmankind at 12:42 PM on December 5, 2005

> And I don't know if I'd trust Italians, they think fans make you sick.

Grappa and unfiltered cigarettes while sick sounds like a *bad* idea to you? :-)

Heh. I had forgotten about deathly fear of fans and drafts and open windows.

Which reminds me, I tend to believe that having at least one window cracked open at least sometimes throughout the winter helps, otherwise I feel like I'm cooped up with germs. I have no scientific basis for this belief, and it drives pretty much everyone who has to share space with me nuts, but I stubbornly cling to "fresh air is *always* good" philosophy.
posted by occhiblu at 12:45 PM on December 5, 2005

Optimus Chyme: I wish you would give up. If you haven't got anything positive to offer, I'm not quite sure what value you think your posts have here.

Oh please. Here you go, then:

What works: eating right, getting regular exercise, sleeping well and enough, washing your hands regularly, fresh air, sunlight, avoiding vectors of disease like young children and crowded areas.

What doesn't work: everything else.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:52 PM on December 5, 2005

So what are you saying about everyone who has posted so far with remedies that have been successful for them?
posted by forallmankind at 1:11 PM on December 5, 2005

OC, I agree with the substance of what you're saying but you really should consider dialling back on the snark a bit.

Look at it this way: are you just blowing off steam, or do you want people to listen to you? Many people won't listen to evidence, or at least won't emphasize scientific evidence in their decision making -- surely you know that's true, even if (like me) you don't quite see why. You're probably also aware that the best way to get someone to cling resolutely to a mistaken belief is to *prove* them wrong, clearly and scientifically and with reference to published work *prove* it -- especially in a public forum. Again, bizarre but true.

If you're just blowing off steam, I think you're doing it in the wrong place -- save the aggro for MeFi and MeTa, where it seems to be commonplace and even welcome. If you actually want people to listen to you, it's best to avoid a tone that says "you're a fucking idiot". Even -- perhaps especially -- when you really do think the person you're addressing is a fucking idiot.
posted by sennoma at 1:24 PM on December 5, 2005

There's been quite a few reports recently about how snorting salt water through the nose prevents and helps shorten the length of a cold. Google News search.
posted by INTPLibrarian at 1:34 PM on December 5, 2005

So what are you saying about everyone who has posted so far with remedies that have been successful for them?
posted by forallmankind at 1:11 PM PST on December 5

I'm saying that all of these remedies either a) don't work or that b) the benefit gained by dropping insane amounts of cash on neverending supplies of cold-fx or whatever is incongruent with whatever minimal protection they provide.

You're probably also aware that the best way to get someone to cling resolutely to a mistaken belief is to *prove* them wrong, clearly and scientifically and with reference to published work *prove* it -- especially in a public forum. Again, bizarre but true.

I'm not posting here to change the minds of those convinced in the power of their magic beans, but rather to ensure that lurkers and others won't see spurious claims on a normally accurate site uncommented upon. Many take silence to mean approval, and I'm not going to sit here silently while the thread fills up with replies of "stick your head in an oven and give yourself a 2kg vitamin C enema and you'll never be sick again."

I've done the same in many threads: when someone posted that a Tae Kwon Do move would help you in a bar fight, I replied that it would probably get you killed. Will I convince the TKD practitioners? Probably not. But I'll encourage skepticism in those undecided. And if I'm not being polite about it, so what? Is it polite to post expensive remedies that don't work and can actually be hazardous?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:37 PM on December 5, 2005

Optimus Chyme, please calm down with the name calling.

I think enough people have already brought up the issues surrounding vitamin C, so I'll let that go.

As far as the hand washing, I was just tossing in something I had heard.

Here are two links for you.

"Hand washing on the ward is complicated by the fact that overwashing may actually increase bacterial counts. Dry, damaged skin harbors many more bacteria than healthy skin and is almost impossible to render even close to bacteria free."

Obviously I'm not suggesting he stop washing his hands, I was just throwing it in there as I said, it was something I had heard.

Five seconds of Googling could have found you those links too. But I suppose it's easier to immediately call someone misinformed and ignorant.
posted by dead_ at 2:09 PM on December 5, 2005

As an afterthought, vitamin C isn't an "expensive remedy."

You can drink two glasses of orange juice a day and have more than 300% of your DRI.
posted by dead_ at 2:11 PM on December 5, 2005

"Hand washing on the ward is complicated by the fact that overwashing may actually increase bacterial counts. Dry, damaged skin harbors many more bacteria than healthy skin and is almost impossible to render even close to bacteria free."

You would be hard-pressed to overwash your hands unless you are a doctor or have obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Second, the other link warns against overwashing with antibacterial soap, which I have recommended against in the past.

Five seconds of Googling could have found you those links too. But I suppose it's easier to immediately call someone misinformed and ignorant.

Seeing as how your links don't support your thesis, I stand by my statement.

Finally, there are plenty of remedies recommended in this thread that are far more expensive than orange juice, unless you consider the $500-per-year cost of Cold-fx to be inexpensive.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:24 PM on December 5, 2005

I don't have a thesis.

I said I read somewhere that overwashing is bad.

I then linked you to the place I had read it.
posted by dead_ at 2:28 PM on December 5, 2005

I've found that not only getting enough sleep, but doing so in a regular pattern of sleep/wake times works wonders. I'm also a fan of sleeping with the windows cracked open in the winter to stave off the dry air from the heater (I really should invest in a humidifier) - I find if I wake up parched from a room's dryness or stuffiness I often seem to develop a full sore throat or sniffles. Throat and mucous membranes irritated from the lack of humidity are susceptible to infection through the resulting cracks.
posted by stagewhisper at 2:43 PM on December 5, 2005

I recommend a small serving of kefir or buttermilk each day. Central Europeans believe it fends of colds. Of course, I like it anyway.

Not allowing your sinuses to dry out and crack is also very effective. My mother-in-law gave me nasel drops to take when I fly. I usually get a cold on trans-Atlantic flights, but I have been fine sine the nose drops. Perhaps this supports Kanolia's advice. I had always thought of steam rooms as breeding grounds for germs.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:09 PM on December 5, 2005

Hydration, hydration, hydration. Every time I've had a cold in the last five years, it's come hard on the heels of a period in which I let myself get dried out -- which isn't hard with the dry air both inside and out. Anecdotal, absolutely. But it can't hurt at all to drink more water (and tea) regardless.
posted by Dreama at 6:18 PM on December 5, 2005

When I wanted to know what, if any, supplements or herbs would help with a cold, I found this page at Cedars-Sinai. They rate the likely effectiveness of alternative treatments based on the available studies to date. I don't know how often it's updated, but for the common cold they go with vitamin C, echinacea and zinc lozenges -- all suggested for shortening cold duration, not prevention.

(I've tried them as recommended by the studies -- in the right dosages and as soon as cold symptoms start. My colds do seem shorter but anecdotal evidence is worthless. Read the studies.)
posted by nev at 6:33 PM on December 5, 2005

De-stress.

Wash your hands.

Stay hydrated (use a humidifier at home if you have to).
posted by PurplePorpoise at 8:17 PM on December 5, 2005

I keep a cross up on my door and hang garlic around the house to keep the sicknesses away. Also every week I have a hot stone massage to balance my chi.

But really, all the effective measures are preventive, such as what has already been said that doesn't involve herbal teas or nonsensical doses of asorbic acid. Rest, balanced nutrition, and exercise all do wonders to keep the immune system strong. Plus there is actual evidence backing those claims. My pom-poms root for Optimus Chyme.
posted by TwelveTwo at 8:31 PM on December 5, 2005

So Optimus Chyme, let's hear your method for preventing colds and other sicknesses!

Me, I don't fight them off very hard. Read somewhere it keeps the immune system in shape, and that helps fight off much nastier things... I contend that occasional mild illness is probably good for the body, just as forest fires have proven to be.
posted by rleamon at 8:45 PM on December 5, 2005

You would be hard-pressed to overwash your hands unless you are a doctor or have obsessive-compulsive disorder.

or you have sensitive skin and live in a cold climate. like many people, some of whom haven't even gone through pre-med.

ANYway.

the basics are the most important - eat well, get exercise, sleep well, drink water, avoid stress.

two additional things: avoid refined sugar. it burns you out, taxes your immune system.

and garlic has been used as a folk remedy for a long time. there are indications that it has anti-bacterial properties and is especially useful for lung tissue. out of a casual contempt for OC (the medium is the message, mate), i will not link to any studies, but simply say that when those around me get sick, i'll eat a clove or two raw for a few days. i've gone a surprising length of time not getting sick lately, through some seriously harrowing illnesses in those around me.
posted by poweredbybeard at 8:52 PM on December 5, 2005

This will sound odd, but it's worked for me.

When paying for something in a store, if you're signing a credit card slip, use your OWN pen. The pen that the clerk offers you has been handled by all kinds of folks with all kinds of icky illnesses.
posted by Serena at 8:59 PM on December 5, 2005

The second I start feeling nasty, I begin Zicam (which I already pimped today). It works really well for me.
posted by booksandlibretti at 9:23 PM on December 5, 2005

Response by poster: wow, uh... thanks.
posted by nitsuj at 10:44 PM on December 5, 2005

I would advise infrequently washing your hands, drinking after other people frequently, and being around sick people often -- without letting it bother you. If I ever get sick, it's for about an hour and it goes away -- I suspect partially because it doesn't irritate me.

I avoid all OTC medications (which usually just smother symtoms without solving the real problem), and making sure you get regular vitamins and liquids.

The more you're exposed to, the better you can fight it when it eventually comes back, and it always comes back. Bring it on, I say.
posted by vanoakenfold at 10:01 AM on December 6, 2005

I would agree with Zicam. Works to reduce a cold and it's better than just Zinc.

If you don't put your hands into "anything" above your neck then you don't have to wash them every two minutes. Wash before you eat and sleep.

I also agree with lots of water in your system. The same viruses that cause colds are around you all year round. But in the winter with close contact and dry indoor heat, those buggers get the foothold.
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 10:21 AM on December 6, 2005

In the other corner, we have people who are saying, in essence, "I have personally tried this, it actually does work for me, and it works well enough for me that I continue to use it."

I know who I'm more likely to listen to.

I have a stone that repels man-eating tigers. I have never been attacked by tigers. Are you interested in purchasing it?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:31 AM on December 6, 2005

ny_scotsman: eating raw garlic isn't so bad. I pop the clove in my mouth, fill my mouth with a goodly sip of warm water and chew the clove up. Then I swallow the water and the clove in one gulp. A few more big gulps of water to make sure nothing stays in my mouth or throat, and I'm done.

The garlic only smells for about a half hour. The smell comes from the reaction of the enzyme allinase with alliin and I think if you chew the garlic in water, the enzyme gets dissolved before it has much chance to react.

Garlic helps me with preventing "other sicknesses". Once I have a cold, a strong brandy and sleeping/sweating under lots of blankets in a hot room cures me in one night, every time. Trouble is, that's more unpleasant than the garlic cure.
posted by mediaddict at 4:44 PM on December 6, 2005

I find taking three or four Horseradish & garlic tablets before bed every night keeps me free of ill health.

I used to get really, really bad allergies. They would hit me reguarly, and when they did, I'd be knocked out for 24 hours. Then a friend suggested I try taking horseradish & garlic tablets. Since I started taking them back in 2001, I don't get allergy attacks anywhere near as often. Twice a year, at most. When this is opposed to the old norm of at least once every two months, but usually more, you see the effect they have.

I've also found that other sicknesses seem to stay away as well. The last time I got sick was back in July. Before that, I was free of sickness for almost a year and a hlaf (if you don't count the odd 24 hour allergy attack I mentioned I still have around twice a year). I'm not sure if its related to me taking the HR&G tabs; I'm no doctor. But they seem to help!
posted by Effigy2000 at 9:45 PM on December 10, 2005

Optimus Chyme, if all of our mutual friends were frequently eaten by tigers, I would certainly want your stone.
posted by booksandlibretti at 3:41 PM on December 11, 2005