How do I discuss my web history in front-end web developer interviews?
August 12, 2015 10:51 PM Subscribe
I'm a new grad of an online coding school, and I'm preparing for job interviews in front-end web development in Portland, OR. My hobbyist web work experience dates back to the mid-1990s, and I'd like to discuss this work in interviews, but the subject matter may be problematic. What should I do?
I've just completed a full series of training courses in front-end web development (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, jQuery, AJAX & JSON, console, Git, web optimization) through an online coding school. I enjoyed it and did well in my studies. Now the task before me is to find a job in Portland as a junior web developer. But first I need to figure out how to discuss my web history appropriately.
I'm in my 40s, and I have a substantial personal web presence dating back to the 1990s. Currently I am maintaining three WordPress blogs, plus several social media accounts. However, all of it is tied in some way to my involvement with the goth/industrial music scene, Pagan religion, and political stuff such as queer activism and alternatives to conventional employment. It's not the kind of subject matter that would be appropriate to bring up in a job interview. I know tech culture is pretty tolerant of eccentricity compared to many other fields, but it's not that tolerant, especially for a woman my age...is it?
I've been self-employed as a house cleaner and freelance writer for many years, and all my clients have been referred to me through the arts and esoteric communities, so I've had the luxury of not having to worry much about being so open online about my Paganism, goth aesthetic, and radical politics. In fact, those things were a plus for most of my clients.
I have just begun work on building a web portfolio that will be more appropriate to present to potential employers at interviews, so that part will soon be covered. And I'm excited about getting started in web development professionally, as I've always been a self-motivated learner. I'm self-taught on WordPress, Photoshop, and most of the other web stuff I did before I enrolled in coding school. I also did volunteer work at Free Geek building desktop PCs. I think my long geek history as a hobbyist is one of the things that will make me a great fit for a web dev job. But how do I discuss this experience in interviews without divulging the subject matter of the web work I've done in the past? Or, even better, how might I find a place to work where there's no need to hide it? The code school I went to does offer job hunt assistance, and there's a tech hiring fair happening next week that I'm planning to attend...but how do I even bring up this topic with them? Should I? I mean, I'm sure employers are going to Google me, and even though I've used several different names online, it's not difficult to link my online presence to my legal name. So maybe they'll find out on their own. If they do, how is this likely to affect my chances of getting a job?
Portland is in the midst of a tech boom at the moment, and I've been hearing encouraging stories about quick hires from other students who've completed the same coding coursework I did, so it sounds like the job market for web devs here - even freshly minted ones - is good. Help me put my best foot forth and get a great new job!
I've just completed a full series of training courses in front-end web development (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, jQuery, AJAX & JSON, console, Git, web optimization) through an online coding school. I enjoyed it and did well in my studies. Now the task before me is to find a job in Portland as a junior web developer. But first I need to figure out how to discuss my web history appropriately.
I'm in my 40s, and I have a substantial personal web presence dating back to the 1990s. Currently I am maintaining three WordPress blogs, plus several social media accounts. However, all of it is tied in some way to my involvement with the goth/industrial music scene, Pagan religion, and political stuff such as queer activism and alternatives to conventional employment. It's not the kind of subject matter that would be appropriate to bring up in a job interview. I know tech culture is pretty tolerant of eccentricity compared to many other fields, but it's not that tolerant, especially for a woman my age...is it?
I've been self-employed as a house cleaner and freelance writer for many years, and all my clients have been referred to me through the arts and esoteric communities, so I've had the luxury of not having to worry much about being so open online about my Paganism, goth aesthetic, and radical politics. In fact, those things were a plus for most of my clients.
I have just begun work on building a web portfolio that will be more appropriate to present to potential employers at interviews, so that part will soon be covered. And I'm excited about getting started in web development professionally, as I've always been a self-motivated learner. I'm self-taught on WordPress, Photoshop, and most of the other web stuff I did before I enrolled in coding school. I also did volunteer work at Free Geek building desktop PCs. I think my long geek history as a hobbyist is one of the things that will make me a great fit for a web dev job. But how do I discuss this experience in interviews without divulging the subject matter of the web work I've done in the past? Or, even better, how might I find a place to work where there's no need to hide it? The code school I went to does offer job hunt assistance, and there's a tech hiring fair happening next week that I'm planning to attend...but how do I even bring up this topic with them? Should I? I mean, I'm sure employers are going to Google me, and even though I've used several different names online, it's not difficult to link my online presence to my legal name. So maybe they'll find out on their own. If they do, how is this likely to affect my chances of getting a job?
Portland is in the midst of a tech boom at the moment, and I've been hearing encouraging stories about quick hires from other students who've completed the same coding coursework I did, so it sounds like the job market for web devs here - even freshly minted ones - is good. Help me put my best foot forth and get a great new job!
If you try to put yourself in the interviewers' shoes, I think you'll be reassured by thinking about what it is they would actually want to know about your past work. Since you have recent educational experience and a portfolio, it's pushing it a little to imagine they'd even want to know whether the past work was voluntary or paid, how much time you put into it, how much traffic the sites handled, and things like that--the circumstances around the work. What they're likelier to be curious about are the specific tasks you performed (graphic design? plugin development? etc.) and the technologies you gained experience with. So, as you describe the work you've done, just keep them focused on the things they probably want to know, e.g. "I've done paid/volunteer work for X number of years on Y sites, including [task list] and [projects described in generic terms like upgrades, widget development], using technologies such as [these]." If they ask for details, it'll probably be to discern the seriousness or technical depth of the work, but if they really dig, you don't want to give the impression of being ashamed of it either--just say whatever seems reasonable from your own point of view. It's unlikely you want to work in a place that would reject you for doing that.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 11:49 PM on August 12, 2015
posted by Monsieur Caution at 11:49 PM on August 12, 2015
Best answer: Interviewers will probably ask you to talk about one or more specific projects and the technical (etc.) challenges they presented. You'll have to explain how you met and resolved those challenges.
So one thing you can do is to formulate a set of simple narratives around several specific challenges you've handled over the years. These will describe what the challenge was, how you identified it, how you gained the knowledge to address it, what principles and technologies you applied, etc. You'll not only be able to handle those sorts of questions, but you'll probably develop new insight into your own skills and methodologies as well. As an added bonus, if the solutions you've identified are generalizable to other domains (and they should be), the actual subject matter becomes secondary.
posted by klanawa at 11:56 PM on August 12, 2015
So one thing you can do is to formulate a set of simple narratives around several specific challenges you've handled over the years. These will describe what the challenge was, how you identified it, how you gained the knowledge to address it, what principles and technologies you applied, etc. You'll not only be able to handle those sorts of questions, but you'll probably develop new insight into your own skills and methodologies as well. As an added bonus, if the solutions you've identified are generalizable to other domains (and they should be), the actual subject matter becomes secondary.
posted by klanawa at 11:56 PM on August 12, 2015
If I were hiring I would want to know if you had experience relevant to the position for which you are applying. You can keep the subject matter of the sites vague ("music culture") if you want. It's unlikely your interviewers will care much about the subject matter unless you make a big deal of it. If they really want to know they'll ask, but there are usually bigger fish to fry in an interview.
posted by deathpanels at 1:12 AM on August 13, 2015
posted by deathpanels at 1:12 AM on August 13, 2015
You may be held back by the alternatives to conventional employment content when you are seeking, well, conventional employment. A friend of mine (really, actually a friend) had his interview tank when a google revealed an old, spleen-filled blog post saying he never wanted to make another website. A month later, not the case! That is the only content I'd worry about.
posted by sweltering at 1:45 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sweltering at 1:45 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think you're maybe overthinking this, though I don't know what kinds of organizations you're applying to. I mean, I've gone to a bootcamp and now work for a financial services software company and I've worked with people who were developers for weird drop-ship lingerie sites and sketchy sweepstakes sites... if you can demonstrate your skills, you're probably fine. I thought you were going to say porn, not industrial music. A large percentage of web developers are working on stuff on the non-mainstream-to-downright-gross spectrum. I mean, think about the web!
I don't think most people are going to be *that* interested in your old work; you will want to include it in your "how I became a developer" narrative, but so long as you keep the focus on the webpage work, rather than the subculture, you're fine, and it's not like that's your best or most recent work. So, "I encountered $foo and $bar problems while I was working on my personal sites in the 90s. When the site was featured on [popular thing] we had a huge influx of visitors and I had to scale up $blah. I learned a lot about $baz, specifically how to $qux."
I think saying "music culture" or "a lifestyle subculture" sounds cagey and much more weird than "yeah, I'm an old Goth lady." (Or something less self-deprecating, depending on your personal style.) Honestly my only concerns about working with someone who was into the goth/industrial music scene would be that a) music would leak from their headphones into the open office or b) they would want to talk about it in the kitchen. (The alternatives to conventional employment thing might turn people off - I think there are a lot of people who get into tech with the hope of being able to work remotely from a beach hut in Bali and that doesn't go down all that well everywhere.)
posted by mskyle at 6:28 AM on August 13, 2015
I don't think most people are going to be *that* interested in your old work; you will want to include it in your "how I became a developer" narrative, but so long as you keep the focus on the webpage work, rather than the subculture, you're fine, and it's not like that's your best or most recent work. So, "I encountered $foo and $bar problems while I was working on my personal sites in the 90s. When the site was featured on [popular thing] we had a huge influx of visitors and I had to scale up $blah. I learned a lot about $baz, specifically how to $qux."
I think saying "music culture" or "a lifestyle subculture" sounds cagey and much more weird than "yeah, I'm an old Goth lady." (Or something less self-deprecating, depending on your personal style.) Honestly my only concerns about working with someone who was into the goth/industrial music scene would be that a) music would leak from their headphones into the open office or b) they would want to talk about it in the kitchen. (The alternatives to conventional employment thing might turn people off - I think there are a lot of people who get into tech with the hope of being able to work remotely from a beach hut in Bali and that doesn't go down all that well everywhere.)
posted by mskyle at 6:28 AM on August 13, 2015
As a front-end dev, I'd say you should just mention that you've been involved with building/maintaining websites for X number of years, and then move on to discussing your more recent studies and work. Not because I think anyone will be particularly put off by the subject matter of your web sites, but because I don't think employers are going to find sites you built 5+ years ago very relevant to your present employability, and focusing on your old material will make you seem out of touch.
posted by ludwig_van at 6:35 AM on August 13, 2015
posted by ludwig_van at 6:35 AM on August 13, 2015
From the perspective of somebody currently trying to hire a front-end web developer in North Carolina, my concerns would be "Did the work look good? Did you complete the work? Are your skills more up to date now than they were back in the 90s?"
posted by oceanjesse at 8:39 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 8:39 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I'm not too worried about the industrial music angle. I mean, it isn't as if I'm going to walk into the interview in full rivethead gear, or discuss it/listen to it in a way that interferes with others' work once I'm hired. I am certainly capable of conducting myself professionally on the job. Some employers might find the goth thing immature or otherwise off-putting if they Google me, but in the end it's probably best that I don't work for an employer like that.
I don't feel any shame about my interests, and could easily say "I'm an old goth lady" (or something like that) with a smile, if it seemed appropriate in the context of the interview.
The possibility that I may come across as out of touch due to my age is more of a concern. My WordPress blogs were built as a hobbyist before I completed the front-end web dev coursework, and it shows. Since I'm busy working on my professional portfolio now, I'm probably not going to have time to go back and fix all the rookie mistakes I made on my blogs for quite awhile.
You may be held back by the alternatives to conventional employment content when you are seeking, well, conventional employment.
Indeed. In my mind, critiquing compulsory wage labor and supporting the concept of an unconditional basic income can coexist comfortably with having a conventional job. But in an employer's view, the work I've done with that project might come across as reason not to hire me. And I've done some public media appearances in connection with that project, so there's no sense in trying to hide it.
Any suggestions about how to address it if it does come up? (Yes, I'm aware that I may be overthinking this. I am a MeFite, after all...)
posted by velvet winter at 9:47 AM on August 13, 2015
I don't feel any shame about my interests, and could easily say "I'm an old goth lady" (or something like that) with a smile, if it seemed appropriate in the context of the interview.
The possibility that I may come across as out of touch due to my age is more of a concern. My WordPress blogs were built as a hobbyist before I completed the front-end web dev coursework, and it shows. Since I'm busy working on my professional portfolio now, I'm probably not going to have time to go back and fix all the rookie mistakes I made on my blogs for quite awhile.
You may be held back by the alternatives to conventional employment content when you are seeking, well, conventional employment.
Indeed. In my mind, critiquing compulsory wage labor and supporting the concept of an unconditional basic income can coexist comfortably with having a conventional job. But in an employer's view, the work I've done with that project might come across as reason not to hire me. And I've done some public media appearances in connection with that project, so there's no sense in trying to hide it.
Any suggestions about how to address it if it does come up? (Yes, I'm aware that I may be overthinking this. I am a MeFite, after all...)
posted by velvet winter at 9:47 AM on August 13, 2015
If it were me, I would probably say something like "websites for various music and alt-culture type scenes," and if pressed further, say "Well, like industrial music and radical unemployment. It was the 90s, you know?" and then gauge the response I was getting from the interviewer and decide whether to go further. I would definitely use music and economics as examples before religion and sexuality. But overall, I think it probably won't be an issue.
posted by KathrynT at 9:49 AM on August 13, 2015
posted by KathrynT at 9:49 AM on August 13, 2015
Best answer: Indeed. In my mind, critiquing compulsory wage labor and supporting the concept of an unconditional basic income can coexist comfortably with having a conventional job. But in an employer's view, the work I've done with that project might come across as reason not to hire me. And I've done some public media appearances in connection with that project, so there's no sense in trying to hide it.
OK - I was thinking more that you were posting "quit your job and live off the land" or "get a remote coding job and work 4 hours a day from the beach in Bali" kind of stuff. Which can come across as kind of flaky, *and* which gets into "never hire a young bachelor with no debts and a fishing license" kind of territory (they don't want to hire you if you're not in it for the long or at least medium term).
What you're talking about comes across as *political*, but let's face it, in the near term, you're not going to quit your job because Portland institutes an unconditional basic income. I think most tech employers are fairly practical.
Coming across as out of touch is bit dangerous (and a lot of tech companies do worship at the altar of youth) but hopefully your current work speaks for itself. I got my first web developer job at 35, for what it's worth. Weirdly, people I know professionally just assume that I am significantly younger than I am (I guess based on my work history and lack of kids). Also, I know it's kind of gross, but if certain types of clothes/hairstyle/makeup help you pass for a bit younger, it probably won't hurt.
Also, at least where I am, a really large percentage of tech hiring seems to be based on your personal network and who you know/who you've worked with/who you've at least seen around. So definitely keep volunteering, participating in geeky stuff, etc. If someone meets you first and gets a good vibe off you, they might not do as much googling as you think.
posted by mskyle at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2015
OK - I was thinking more that you were posting "quit your job and live off the land" or "get a remote coding job and work 4 hours a day from the beach in Bali" kind of stuff. Which can come across as kind of flaky, *and* which gets into "never hire a young bachelor with no debts and a fishing license" kind of territory (they don't want to hire you if you're not in it for the long or at least medium term).
What you're talking about comes across as *political*, but let's face it, in the near term, you're not going to quit your job because Portland institutes an unconditional basic income. I think most tech employers are fairly practical.
Coming across as out of touch is bit dangerous (and a lot of tech companies do worship at the altar of youth) but hopefully your current work speaks for itself. I got my first web developer job at 35, for what it's worth. Weirdly, people I know professionally just assume that I am significantly younger than I am (I guess based on my work history and lack of kids). Also, I know it's kind of gross, but if certain types of clothes/hairstyle/makeup help you pass for a bit younger, it probably won't hurt.
Also, at least where I am, a really large percentage of tech hiring seems to be based on your personal network and who you know/who you've worked with/who you've at least seen around. So definitely keep volunteering, participating in geeky stuff, etc. If someone meets you first and gets a good vibe off you, they might not do as much googling as you think.
posted by mskyle at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2015
Response by poster: I was thinking more that you were posting "quit your job and live off the land" or "get a remote coding job and work 4 hours a day from the beach in Bali" kind of stuff.
Well, I do think some of my work with that project comes across that way. I don't necessarily see that as flaky, but an employer might, since my commitment to the job might be called into question. And I may be interested in working remotely at some point, though that's mostly because I'm an introvert who does her best work in solitude and quiet. But you're right: an unconditional basic income, if it ever became a reality, would not make me quit my job.
People generally assume I'm younger than I am, too. Hair color works wonders that way. And I know age discrimination is an unfortunate reality. But I'm really hoping it won't be a problem.
Thanks for the encouraging words regarding networking. Fortunately, I do have a fairly large network of contacts, many of whom work in tech fields, so it's possible that I'll find some job leads this way. And I've recently learned that Portland has several groups for women in tech, including Lesbians Who Tech, Women Who Code, and ChickTech. Yay! I'm definitely going to get in touch with them.
posted by velvet winter at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, I do think some of my work with that project comes across that way. I don't necessarily see that as flaky, but an employer might, since my commitment to the job might be called into question. And I may be interested in working remotely at some point, though that's mostly because I'm an introvert who does her best work in solitude and quiet. But you're right: an unconditional basic income, if it ever became a reality, would not make me quit my job.
People generally assume I'm younger than I am, too. Hair color works wonders that way. And I know age discrimination is an unfortunate reality. But I'm really hoping it won't be a problem.
Thanks for the encouraging words regarding networking. Fortunately, I do have a fairly large network of contacts, many of whom work in tech fields, so it's possible that I'll find some job leads this way. And I've recently learned that Portland has several groups for women in tech, including Lesbians Who Tech, Women Who Code, and ChickTech. Yay! I'm definitely going to get in touch with them.
posted by velvet winter at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think what would work better is if you only present to the employer in question things that look good and have no problem showing anyone. So focus on using the skills you picked up from your bootcamp, make a portfolio, and show off that portfolio. As much as I agree with you on things like basic income, there is no way in hell you could talk to me about that subject matter without coming across as out of touch in a job interview. It simply isn't appropriate. Talking about the hosting and languages, that's appropriate for an interview about front end web development. The other stuff, not so much. And if the person interviewing you goes into that unnecessary territory, they're just as guilty as you might have been, and you would want to write them off as well.
posted by oceanjesse at 4:36 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by oceanjesse at 4:36 PM on August 13, 2015
Response by poster: I've marked best answers, but I appreciate everything written in this thread - all of your comments helped me think through this dilemma. I've decided I won't be cagey if the subject matter of my earlier web work does come up in a job interview. I'm not going to bring it up myself, but if they decide to Google me and ask me about what they find, I'll address it directly and light-heartedly instead of trying to dodge it. If they Google me and decide not to hire me as a result, well, that's always a risk, and there's not much I can do about it anyway. (I have reason to suspect that has happened at least once already, although it was when I was applying for jobs in a different field.)
I think my best bet is trying to meet more fellow geeks in person. I've been told that I interview well, and usually make a very good impression in casual social settings where I can talk about geeky stuff. So as soon as my portfolio is ready, that's where I'm going to put my focus. I'll be making contact with the women in tech groups this week.
Thanks, everyone!
posted by velvet winter at 8:28 PM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think my best bet is trying to meet more fellow geeks in person. I've been told that I interview well, and usually make a very good impression in casual social settings where I can talk about geeky stuff. So as soon as my portfolio is ready, that's where I'm going to put my focus. I'll be making contact with the women in tech groups this week.
Thanks, everyone!
posted by velvet winter at 8:28 PM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Follow-up before the thread closes: Even though I'm still working on my portfolio and haven't yet had any job interviews, I've marked this thread as resolved since it helped me decide on my approach.
I went to my first Portland Women In Tech networking event a couple of weeks ago, and it went remarkably well! I had a great time - genuinely - and I'm already looking forward to the next one. Met some cool local geek women, got a few business cards, talked about coding. No specific job leads just yet, but I got a couple of staffing agency recommendations and some useful tips from women who've been in tech a long time, which was great! I'm eyeing a few companies in downtown Portland, and putting the word out there that I'm looking for entry-level work. I'll be attending Lesbians Who Tech soon too. Thanks again!
posted by velvet winter at 3:43 PM on September 13, 2015
I went to my first Portland Women In Tech networking event a couple of weeks ago, and it went remarkably well! I had a great time - genuinely - and I'm already looking forward to the next one. Met some cool local geek women, got a few business cards, talked about coding. No specific job leads just yet, but I got a couple of staffing agency recommendations and some useful tips from women who've been in tech a long time, which was great! I'm eyeing a few companies in downtown Portland, and putting the word out there that I'm looking for entry-level work. I'll be attending Lesbians Who Tech soon too. Thanks again!
posted by velvet winter at 3:43 PM on September 13, 2015
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I don't think having these interests and experiences is problematic at all. I do think knowing how to talk about them in a non-distracting way is helpful. I think it's less distracting if you focus on the technical challenges you overcame and skills you learned. If the employer then google searches you and visits these sites, I really think 99 times out of 100 it isn't a concern, as long as you were a pro in your interview.
posted by vunder at 11:36 PM on August 12, 2015 [6 favorites]