A lifetime of reading subtext means I sometimes miss the main text.

August 4, 2015 6:44 PM

DatingFilter: Been hanging out with this guy for a few weeks. Asked him out an Actual Date and he declined but it seems like he left the door open. And I'm not sure if my answer closed the door. I am terrible at this dating thing.

Asking via my sock since my real name is with my main account and good lord would it be embarrassing for some dude to see this pile of overthinking....

So I met this guy through a casual gaming group about two months ago.

For the last month or so we've been messaging on fb and hanging out solo a few times, about once a week. I definitely have been doing the initiating for the most part. Well, all of the times. Mutual friends say he is just shy. I've asked him out 3 times now (as friends, not on a date, lunch and dinners) and he always says yes. He replies to any message very quickly. He sent me a pic of his tacos the other day! He volunteered to help move heavy stuff recently and followed thru.

He stopped by yesterday after work to pick something up I had for him as a thank you for helping me move stuff. He seemed genuinely happy and slightly nervous (in a good way) to be there. He kinda followed me around as I was getting us water and then we sat down and had a nice chat for awhile, about 30-45 min. I had a really good feeling about everything. There was a lot of smiling and eye contact and all that. Every time we hang out, I feel we learn more about each other.

So anyways, as we're both rather shy and awkward, I messaged him tonight (rather than ask in person or call). I said that I'm enjoying getting to know him, would he like to go on actual date, and made a joke about we'd probably still be eating food together but would call it a date.

He replied that he likes where things are at with us for the time being. He's been enjoying getting to know me too, he's just not ready to go that direction.

I replied totally cool, just figured i'd put it out there. Hope that we can continue hanging out and eating food together as friends. And said i hope he's coming to this group outdoor movie thing friday, weather should be great. (in an attempt to thwart awkwardness and he had previously expressed interest in it a couple times but wasn't sure if he'd be able to go)

He replied he hopes we continue being friends! (exclamation mark his) and that he's still not sure about Friday.

He's 30, I'm mid 30s. I feel like a middle schooler.

Questions:
- Was that a gentle let down or a "let's see where things go"?
- Did I slam shut the door by saying "as friends" after his initial reply?
- I have a really hard time telling friendly from flirting. This whole dynamic is new to me. I usually meet guys and we're drinking and things go fairly fast because it's just drinking hookups. However, I haven't done that in over a year as I'm looking for something better. Did I mistake friendly for flirting here? Or is this normal... hanging out for a bit and seeing where it goes? He doesn't drink so that dynamic I'm used to is absent. Which is fine by me.

I have been reading the EL thread and it's definitely given me a different perspective. In the past, I would have felt very let down but I don't right now. Mostly I'm just trying to understand what happened in general regarding the 3 questions because this is like a new country for me and I'm trying to learn the customs.



Thank you.

posted by inmyhead to Human Relations (28 answers total)

He's letting you down easy, in a very nice way.
posted by tooloudinhere at 6:51 PM on August 4, 2015 [35 favorites]

I really strongly feel like if someone is into you, they are going to know it. (Cue 10 people who started "just as friends" but I guarantee there was some kind of seismic shift in someone's life or experiences that made it possible.) And if they know it and lie, they're fuckers and you shouldn't date them. If they don't know it, they don't have the emotional intelligence to be dating and you shouldn't date them.

Or he never had any intention of it going further.

The door should be slammed. I don't think single people should do fake-dating (getting all the social and ego benefits of dating) if they know they don't want it to go anywhere without disclaiming loudly from the beginning. This is how you get that friendzone shit when one day he decides he's ready for you to have sex with him but you've moved on.

In other words, he's been unforthcoming enough to be a liar and you should regard him with the respect due to someone who's taking advantage of you. Don't let the slim promise of being liked on his shabby terms blind you to that, you deserve better.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:54 PM on August 4, 2015 [4 favorites]

I think he's letting you down. If he's just not ready for whatever reason, the ball is squarely in his court.

I'd stop inviting him to hang out one-on-one and start dating other people. You deserve to be with someone who is ready to be with you now and is grown-up enough to let you know that clearly.

Good luck!
posted by bunderful at 6:56 PM on August 4, 2015 [11 favorites]

I think this is likely a gentle letdown. If he truly is leaving the door open (and I hate to say it but that's not generally how these things work out) you've put things firmly in his court. Good for you for being honest and upfront. I don't think you closed the door at all. I think you were very mature and let him know that you respected what he was saying and that he didn't need to be worried or uncomfortable around you going forward. Even though it doesn't look like things will work out with him, you know where you stand and you can now devote your emotional energy to meeting someone else.

Also, if you want to scale back the friendship a little that's totally ok. Of course continue to include him in group events and remain friendly, but if texting him daily and hanging out with him all the time is preventing you from moving on it's ok to take a step back.
posted by whoaali at 6:58 PM on August 4, 2015 [8 favorites]

You are not terrible at this dating thing! It sounds to me like you're doing great. You like a dude and you expressed an intent to date. That's the best you can do! Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that the feeling is mutual. That happens. Rejection is a part of life. The more you date the easier it'll be. You can continue being friends with him if you want, but I'd say that you two dating is off the table.

You did everything right here and nothing wrong. The only way to sour this is by bad future behavior (like if he starts dating somebody who is not you and you act jealous and possessive), but I doubt you'd do that.
posted by phunniemee at 7:17 PM on August 4, 2015 [14 favorites]

You didn't do anything wrong. I don't understand the reading above that he did something wrong, either. You asked him out on a date. He gently let you know he doesn't want to date you although he likes you as a friend. If you decide you don't want to spend time with him as a friend, that's totally fine, and realistically probably a good idea (it is really no good if you are hanging out as friends while still wanting to date him.)

I don't think he left the door open (and if he did, it would be some weird mindfuck that I would back hastily away from.) Just take it as a mis-match for dating and move on, it's all good, he just digs a different profile for dating.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:18 PM on August 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

Aw, sorry - it is a gentle letdown, yes. Even though he's shy, he is definitely saying one thing and not another (i.e. "no thank you, sorry, but I do like you as a friend". And of course, people do often want to develop cross-gender friendships in good faith, nothing wrong with that, agreed.) Take his words at face value, and try not to read too much into things he isn't saying.

I do think most men will make an obvious effort if they're romantically interested. (Admittedly, I haven't actually dated anyone I'd describe as "shy", but quieter and more introverted men I've known have still made their intentions clear.) If you initiated things several times in a row, and he didn't at least reciprocate in kind, that (imo) is an indicator that the interest level isn't there, as far as dating goes.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:32 PM on August 4, 2015 [5 favorites]

If you're not falling flat occasionally, you're not being daring enough :)
posted by amtho at 7:35 PM on August 4, 2015 [6 favorites]

Quite agree with fingersandtoes except for the part about how it would be some weird thing if the door was open.

I suspect this is a very kind let-down, but -- "he's just not ready to go that direction" -- eh -- you never know whose last relationship was some crazy abusive drama-filled nightmare and who might now wisely be exercising extreme caution in starting dating things. If he keeps meeting up with just you (or moving heavy things!) I might, eventually, bring up "Hey, remember that time I suggested a date? Ha ha... Still, though, I wonder what would have happened..." and see what sort of response you get.

Sounds like a good just-friends deal, though.
posted by kmennie at 7:36 PM on August 4, 2015

If the answer to "would you like to go on a date" isn't "yes!" it's "no."

He's letting you down easy. Move on.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:38 PM on August 4, 2015 [23 favorites]

1. Yes, it was clearly a gentle let-down.
2. No, you didn't "slam the door shut" by using the word friend. You did nothing wrong.
3. Generally if someone returns your affections, you won't have to do 100% of the initiating 100% of the time.
posted by quincunx at 7:41 PM on August 4, 2015 [6 favorites]

I am going to agree with everyone above and say he's letting you down easy, which is confusing (and, therefore, annoying!) I've been in your shoes before -- so many of us have been -- and it sucks! However, it's a great sign that you're willing to take risks to ask guys out because someone genuinely interested in -- and I'm sure there are and/or will be many -- would say yes in a heartbeat. I don't know why this guy isn't interested in a romantic relationship but I'd try really, really hard not to take it personally as any shortcoming on your part. (The fact that he wants to continue being friends shows he thinks positively of you!) If you feel you can keep being friends, then keep being friends! However, if hanging out feels uncomfortable or awkward, it's OK to take a break or even phase it out.

Something to consider for the future, and something I say from personal experience: if you start to feel this is a pattern and friends keep giving you positive personal feedback, I'd try for a different pool of guys. Of course, I'd stick to people you're attracted to but would consider looking in slightly different places (another gaming group, people you know from another hobby, etc.)
posted by smorgasbord at 7:44 PM on August 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

he declined but it seems like he left the door open. And I'm not sure if my answer closed the door.
...
He replied he hopes we continue being friends! (exclamation mark his)

Here's how I interpret his-reply-to-your-reply:

After his first reply, he probably wished he'd emphasized the "still wants to be friends" part rather than the "not ready" part. Which is good, because "not ready" implies "not yet", which is an unkind thing to tell someone when "not yet" is actually "never".

So then when he got your second text, he used that as his chance to reply what he was wishing he replied in the first place.

tl/dr: you did nothing wrong; he started to do something wrong but then corrected it.
posted by feral_goldfish at 7:44 PM on August 4, 2015 [10 favorites]

He's definitely saying "no." You were definitely right to be direct about what you wanted, but I don't think you should have backpedaled to "friends" if that's not what you want.

That said, don't make excuses for guys because you think they're shy and awkward. You will waste your time wondering what they think, trust me on this.
posted by zutalors! at 8:02 PM on August 4, 2015 [3 favorites]

First of all: good on you for asking him out! It's nervewracking, especially when you're shy. Whatever comes of this, I hope you'll continue to be assertive and straightforward in your dating pursuits.

Now for the bad part: yeah, sorry, he's letting you down gently. I remember (but am having no luck finding) a great answer from a past AskMe that said, essentially, whenever someone says "I'm not interested in a relationship right now," they mean "I'm not interested in a relationship with you." Hedges like "I'm not ready" and "not now" usually aren't meant literally; they're more of an attempt to put up an invisible out-of-order sign on the person you're asking out.

It doesn't sound like either of you did anything wrong here. You can still be friends, but scale back the one-on-one time, and don't dwell on the asking out or assume things will be awkward. And the sooner you can go back to viewing him in a completely platonic way, the easier it will be to stay friends.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:17 PM on August 4, 2015 [1 favorite]

I offer a slightly different take on it. I think he is saying that he likes being friends with you, is not ready to go to calling it a date, but wants to keep doing whatever it is you are doing and maybe it can grow/change to something else.

Keep doing whatever it is you have been doing and maybe in a few weeks or months he may come around.

I would not stop dating others or pursuing other opportunities or anything else, just that I do not think the door is locked closed here. Just pushed closed without the lock and without it being too heavy to open.

Just my $0.02
posted by AugustWest at 8:34 PM on August 4, 2015

Well, it is clear he is saying no for now. As to later, who knows?

You are both middle aged, and at this point in life, "not right now" can actually mean "not right now (but maybe later)" because middle aged people have all sorts of baggage that makes life complicated. For example, maybe his ex is expressing some regret about the affair that he or she had but hasn't fully recommitted to their relationship leaving him in limbo. So things are complicated and he says, "not right now (maybe later)."

But at the end of the day, the "maybe laters" aren't really of interest to you, and you don't waste time trying to parse and figure out how, exactly, to interpret them because you are a person living in the moment and you sure the hell aren't going to sit around and wait for the maybe later to come. Because que sera, sera and all that jazz.
posted by girl flaneur at 8:39 PM on August 4, 2015

Going on a single 'actual date' is very low stakes. If you think you might like a person 'like that' but you're not really sure, you can still go on one date with them and see how it goes. He declined the invitation entirely. That leads me to believe he isn't attracted to you or believes you have some kind of fundamental incompatibility where it's not even worth testing the waters with the 'one date' level of commitment. Which is fine, and I think he declined in a nice way and that he does truly like you as a friend.

Just make sure that your friendship at this point doesn't turn into him using you as a pseudo girlfriend until someone he's romantically interested in comes along, or you making yourself miserable by spending time with him 'as a friend' but continually hoping for something more. Usually those scenarios don't play out with mature adults who knows how to communicate their feelings, which it sounds like you both are, but I've seen both happen a million times so just mentioning it as a caution.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:52 PM on August 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

You are both middle aged, and at this point in life, "not right now" can actually mean "not right now (but maybe later)" because middle aged people have all sorts of baggage that makes life complicated.

>He's 30, I'm mid 30s.

...huh?
posted by phunniemee at 8:53 PM on August 4, 2015 [23 favorites]

I take his answer to mean "no thank you, but please don't be embarrassed for asking. I think you're great, I'm just not up for a romance."

You didn't do anything wrong, and don't need to feel awkward now. He likes you. Your reply didn't change any of that. The exclamation point is intended to emphasize that he's not just saying it to be polite.

Credential: shy guy who nevertheless usually means I say at face value.
posted by ctmf at 9:03 PM on August 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

- Was that a gentle let down or a "let's see where things go"?

Gentle let down.

- Did I slam shut the door by saying "as friends" after his initial reply?

It doesn't matter what you did with the door, because he closed it. I don't think you did anything wrong here.

- Did I mistake friendly for flirting here?

You didn't make a mistake.. you asked a guy out and he declined. It sucks, but that's life.

Or is this normal... hanging out for a bit and seeing where it goes? He doesn't drink so that dynamic I'm used to is absent.

Sometimes people hang out with folk they are not romantically interested in because they want to be friends, or because they are bored..

I would set a time period for grieving this and try to move on. The only thing I'd suggest is if this happens again in the future, you can be honest about being disappointed. You don't have to be all "totally cool!" because that's inauthentic and not true. It's not totally cool, is it? You're disappointed, and that's human and fine. "Aww, that's too bad. I find you very attractive. But no worries - let's definitely hang as friends!" is honest and keeps the door open for platonic hanging out, if you're capable of doing that after being let down romantically.
posted by Gray Skies at 9:04 PM on August 4, 2015 [4 favorites]

He's not into you like that and he sees you as a friend. His loss. Onto the next ones.

It's great that you asked him out and you're taking everything in stride because dating can be so awkward and so tough. You're doing everything right but it just so happens this guy is not The One. Don't sweat it. You're doing everything right and sound like you'll be a catch for some guy!
posted by AppleTurnover at 9:23 PM on August 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

Mod note: This being Ask, let's retire the "middle age" derail.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 11:09 PM on August 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

What it seems you've learned here: 1) as you say, you definitely had been doing all of the initiating. And in hindsight it did not feel super awesome for you, I'm guessing, hence this Ask. 2) Your mutual friends probably meant well when they in so many words told you it was a great idea for you to keep doing all of the initiating because he's "shy" as if that's a valid excuse for you to have to do all of the emotional labor, (and yes, fantastic EL thread on the Blue), and 3) You remain confused about how to tell "friendly from flirting"-- pro-tip: if he's into you AND worthy of your affections, he'll let you know by his actions-- meaning he will initiate something, anything to spend in-person time with you. Then he will eventually touch you more and more, and you him, there will be loads of sustained eye contact, and if you both continue to respond favorably, then you and he both will make it mutually clear you'd like things to turn romantic.

In the future, don't be fooled by what folks say about "shy" guys, try doing a whole hell of a lot less work upfront (or you'll risk future difficulties in eventually stopping said work), and start listening primarily to a man's actions instead of his words. That is, except for the very important word No. He straight up said no, he was not any type of an ass about it at all, and it was 100% in line with his prior actions of not reciprocating any of your prior efforts. No need to parse his texts any further. Move on from thinking of him as a possible romantic partner.
posted by hush at 3:58 AM on August 5, 2015 [4 favorites]

I have been in situations in which I could honestly say, "I'm not ready to go in that direction," even though I am romantically interested. However, this is the kind of thing that I think you generally shouldn't say, even if it's true. People deserve a better answer, which sometimes means that someone with mixed feelings has to come down on one side or the other, somewhat arbitrarily. That's life. (It's different if the answer is something like, "I'm not ready to go in that direction, but let's go on a date once I've moved to your city, which I'm in the process of doing." Or: "My life is really hectic while I finish my thesis, but let's go on a date once I turn it in next month." I think it's okay to say that you are "not ready" for specific, time-limited reasons, but otherwise it's not really cool.)

The reason it's not okay is precisely the bind that it's put you in. It may be true, or it may be a polite "no." His answer doesn't give you a reasonable path forward.

I think he's probably letting you down gently. And like others, I would advise you to proceed as if he is letting you down gently. Date other people, think of him as a friend, dial down the friendship (temporarily or permanently) if that is easier for you. Who knows what will happen 6 or 12 months down the road? But that's equally true for him and for your other potential partners. Make your plans as if nothing is going to happen with this guy. But I, personally, wouldn't rule out the possibility that things will go in a more romantic direction in the future.
posted by sudo intellectual at 5:45 AM on August 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

Hey, good job by you! You both handled a pretty awkward human interaction with A+ grace and class. He maybe muddied the waters a little bit with the "not ready" stuff, but I think it's fair to chalk that up to nervousness in the moment and the inherent vagaries of the English language. Even if he did mean to leave the door open a little, it's probably not worth you considering it ajar. You would be better off spending your time and energy looking for the many guys out there who are ready. Certainly continue to be friendly with him in group situations, and who knows what the future may hold, but check him off your list and move on to the next one.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:04 AM on August 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

Here's a secret. If someone is into you, there's no way for you to accidentally shut the door. Short of ridiculous behavior or illegal activities, they'll probably continue to be into you.

So he's not that into you, and that sucks, but there totally is someone that you will connect with in future. Good on you for getting out there and making the first move. That's really awesome.

On preview, what Rock Steady said.
posted by Dimes at 7:24 AM on August 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

You didn't do anything wrong. It sounds like you were pretty good humored about the whole thing. Relationships develop best when there's a principle of balance to them. If you've been doing some of the initiating (all of the initiating), step back and see where it goes when you ease up on the reins. When you are doing all of the asking out/ initiating plans, the other person is in a less active position of deciding, "Do I like and want to continue or escalate this?" If you add in a little breathing room, it will be beneficial for both of you. He'll have the opportunity to arrange to see more of you if he wants to, and if he doesn't want to, then you'll have the opportunity to let go and explore other options.

Don't push for anything further; it isn't nice to him. He'll seek you out if he wants to continue things. I know some very, very shy guys and I can tell you on good authority that he knows he has the green light and can figure out what to do from here.
posted by mermily at 7:52 AM on August 10, 2015