How does this dating thing work?
July 28, 2015 4:42 PM Subscribe
Things seem very promising with someone new, but I don't know how to move things along or how to be patient enough to wait for them to move forward.
So this weekend I hung out with a coworker two nights in a row (NOT the guy from my previous question). This coworker, "B", had always been really friendly towards me and I kind of felt like he liked me. One day we were talking about how I am learning to drive and cannot get parallel parking; I said to him, "Are you good at parallel parking?" (fishing, yes), and he said, "I'll take you, just let me know when you want to go."
We had plans to go one Sunday, but he messaged a few hours before saying his plans changed but that he'd go with me any day the next week; I was hurt, and I just told him that I'd let him know when a good day was, but did not follow up (and neither did he). Did not see him much the next week at the office, but when I did I said hello and kept walking (thought he was also talking to someone else).
The week after, I saw him again and he immediately asked, "are you mad at me?". he seemed genuinely upset/rattled and thought that I had dissed him in the office the last week by not saying hello. However, he was lighthearted about it after I explained. He then said, "let me know when you want to go again". I said, "when are you free?", he suggested this Saturday. I also had asked if he wanted to see a free movie and he could not go but asked if we could another day. So, we had plans to both see the movie and practice driving on Sat.
On Fri evening, I just texted him hello- trying to get a feel for whether the plans were on the next day in light of what happened before. He replied by asking what I was doing and when I answered, "laundry", he said, "forget that, let's go driving- I'll come pick you up now".
He picked me up around 10, and we drove around and talking for several hours. It was great! When he dropped me off he hugged me goodnight and I said, "still want to go to the movies?" (because I wasn't sure if the original Sat. plans were still on). He said yes and we discussed which movie to see- he said he'd google some when he got home. We did not specifically mention going Sat again though.
The next day I was waiting to hear from him but did not..so finally around 5 I sent a text; did not hear back and I was really upset considering what happened before. Finally, after 10, he sent me a text (he had said previously he is very much a night owl and he said "sorry- i was at the pool."). I was a bit miffed and said, "I thought we had plans". He replied, "we did, let's go!" at that point it was too late for the movies. He came and picked me up, we visited his friend for a short time, then wound up sitting in a park for more than 2 hours, talking (just the two of us). It felt very romantic and we had a great conversation (we talked about tons of personal stuff and life experiences); when it got really late he walked me to my door and gave me a hug.
I had a wonderful time both nights and started to really like this guy a lot. However, I am a little worried about two things:
1. His flakiness with planning
2. I feel like I have been initiating things mostly, even thought he has been enthusiastic about going along (seemingly). But I really want him to initiate the next thing. And it's driving me crazy, "waiting". How long should I wait, or should I say something? What do I say? I can tell that he likes me, and he doesn't seem like a player, but I still don't know if he wants to DATE date. Is there a way to figure this out while also waiting for him to take the initiative the next time we hang out?
(we last hung out Sat/early sun morning; saw him at work today, not yesterday- he was more friendly and flirty than normal, but no texts between either of us since Sat- neither of us is big on texting, btw.)
I really like this guy and felt we had a connection, and he is so nice. But I am also a bit inexperienced with a situation exactly like this. Any suggestions much appreciated!
So this weekend I hung out with a coworker two nights in a row (NOT the guy from my previous question). This coworker, "B", had always been really friendly towards me and I kind of felt like he liked me. One day we were talking about how I am learning to drive and cannot get parallel parking; I said to him, "Are you good at parallel parking?" (fishing, yes), and he said, "I'll take you, just let me know when you want to go."
We had plans to go one Sunday, but he messaged a few hours before saying his plans changed but that he'd go with me any day the next week; I was hurt, and I just told him that I'd let him know when a good day was, but did not follow up (and neither did he). Did not see him much the next week at the office, but when I did I said hello and kept walking (thought he was also talking to someone else).
The week after, I saw him again and he immediately asked, "are you mad at me?". he seemed genuinely upset/rattled and thought that I had dissed him in the office the last week by not saying hello. However, he was lighthearted about it after I explained. He then said, "let me know when you want to go again". I said, "when are you free?", he suggested this Saturday. I also had asked if he wanted to see a free movie and he could not go but asked if we could another day. So, we had plans to both see the movie and practice driving on Sat.
On Fri evening, I just texted him hello- trying to get a feel for whether the plans were on the next day in light of what happened before. He replied by asking what I was doing and when I answered, "laundry", he said, "forget that, let's go driving- I'll come pick you up now".
He picked me up around 10, and we drove around and talking for several hours. It was great! When he dropped me off he hugged me goodnight and I said, "still want to go to the movies?" (because I wasn't sure if the original Sat. plans were still on). He said yes and we discussed which movie to see- he said he'd google some when he got home. We did not specifically mention going Sat again though.
The next day I was waiting to hear from him but did not..so finally around 5 I sent a text; did not hear back and I was really upset considering what happened before. Finally, after 10, he sent me a text (he had said previously he is very much a night owl and he said "sorry- i was at the pool."). I was a bit miffed and said, "I thought we had plans". He replied, "we did, let's go!" at that point it was too late for the movies. He came and picked me up, we visited his friend for a short time, then wound up sitting in a park for more than 2 hours, talking (just the two of us). It felt very romantic and we had a great conversation (we talked about tons of personal stuff and life experiences); when it got really late he walked me to my door and gave me a hug.
I had a wonderful time both nights and started to really like this guy a lot. However, I am a little worried about two things:
1. His flakiness with planning
2. I feel like I have been initiating things mostly, even thought he has been enthusiastic about going along (seemingly). But I really want him to initiate the next thing. And it's driving me crazy, "waiting". How long should I wait, or should I say something? What do I say? I can tell that he likes me, and he doesn't seem like a player, but I still don't know if he wants to DATE date. Is there a way to figure this out while also waiting for him to take the initiative the next time we hang out?
(we last hung out Sat/early sun morning; saw him at work today, not yesterday- he was more friendly and flirty than normal, but no texts between either of us since Sat- neither of us is big on texting, btw.)
I really like this guy and felt we had a connection, and he is so nice. But I am also a bit inexperienced with a situation exactly like this. Any suggestions much appreciated!
This post was deleted for the following reason: Posters request. -- restless_nomad
Response by poster: I recognize the risks of dating a coworker and am hoping answers will not focus on that; I'm also not in my 20's. Other advice is appreciated.
posted by bearette at 4:57 PM on July 28, 2015
posted by bearette at 4:57 PM on July 28, 2015
I'm very sorry for my cynical response. I hope it works out for you. I still stand by my original premise that guys who want to date you will make it clear, regardless of age. Again, I'm sorry if I seem too cynical.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:00 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:00 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: It's ok- that is a good point. Part of my question is wanting to know when that will be crystal clear- what kinds of things I can ask/say, how long to wait, etc. I'll stop commenting!
posted by bearette at 5:02 PM on July 28, 2015
posted by bearette at 5:02 PM on July 28, 2015
The last-minute cancellation re the parallel parking date (? but ok :) ) wasn't cool, and he knew it, which is why he apologized. The dithering at the pool or what have you when you were waiting to hear back about the movies was disrespectful. There may be a connection, or he may be really good at making people feel excited around him. Overall, lukewarm vibes, I'd say. It sounds like he's somewhat interested, and aware of and responding to your interest, but not 100% into it.
I would probably not want to feel like I was on tenterhooks the way this guy is making you feel, and agree with Marie Mon Dieu. If you want more evidence of his feelings one way or the other, stop pushing this forward and see what he does.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:03 PM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would probably not want to feel like I was on tenterhooks the way this guy is making you feel, and agree with Marie Mon Dieu. If you want more evidence of his feelings one way or the other, stop pushing this forward and see what he does.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:03 PM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think Marie's read is essentially accurate; if I had to sum up this situation I'd agree that he's interested but that you're not his top priority. Could be another woman, could be work, could be video games, could be navel-gazing: who knows? But he's got you like at number two or three on the list- enough to really want to see you and talk to you every other weekend but not more- at least as of yet.
Unfortunately I don't see a way around this except to wait him out. Play a little aloof, perhaps. Or perhaps make it clear next time that you're not just doing laundry, but very busy and in demand.
posted by quincunx at 5:11 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately I don't see a way around this except to wait him out. Play a little aloof, perhaps. Or perhaps make it clear next time that you're not just doing laundry, but very busy and in demand.
posted by quincunx at 5:11 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would have given him the benefit of the doubt until the movie thing. You confirmed the night before that you both wanted to see a movie the next day, yes? Then there's no excuse for him not contacting you all day with nothing but a lame-ass after the fact excuse that he was at the swimming pool. I mean, c'mon dude. (I say to him.) Seriously? That alone makes it crystal clear that whatever he wants out of this is not dating you. Maaaaaaaybe he wants a FWB situation, but this is clearly not someone who's looking for anything more than that.
posted by MsMolly at 5:22 PM on July 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 5:22 PM on July 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
He could just be shy or lack confidence or afraid to make a move. Or he might be just not that interested. You really won't know until you give it time to play out. Eventually you'll decide that he's interested and you'll be a thing -- or you'll decide he's not interested -- or you'll decide it doesn't matter because if he won't make a move or show initiative then you deserve better.
There's no way at all to speed that up, unless you're willing to ask him or be the aggressor.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:24 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's no way at all to speed that up, unless you're willing to ask him or be the aggressor.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:24 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
He could very genuinely be into you and excited about the relationship and yet be a complete dunce at planning and follow through. Ask yourself whether you would like to be the one who makes all the plans for however long your relationship lasts.
People show you their best side at the beginning of a relationship. The parts where they do irritating stuff is the *best* they can do on that score. He will never get better at planning or follow-through, he will only get worse.
If this is okay with you, then you've got other things to think about, but if it isn't, he's 86'd now and don't bother worrying about it.
A very dear friend is married to a man who loves her like she is the woman of his dreams and just worships the damn ground she walks on and would do anything for her, but the one time she said to him, "I'm tired of being the one who plans our fabulous vacations. This year, you get to do it," they didn't go on a vacation because he couldn't plan one. She was righteously indignant and thought I would agree with her, and I was like, "wait, how long have you been married now, and NOW you think you need to test his planning skills?" I know that when they first got together, she thought it was a little annoying and over time it became this huge cause for her, and something to fix, and he was completely unaware that anything was wrong because he was just being the guy he had always been. Don't be my friend. Really think honestly about whether unreliability is a deal breaker for you.
posted by janey47 at 5:25 PM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
People show you their best side at the beginning of a relationship. The parts where they do irritating stuff is the *best* they can do on that score. He will never get better at planning or follow-through, he will only get worse.
If this is okay with you, then you've got other things to think about, but if it isn't, he's 86'd now and don't bother worrying about it.
A very dear friend is married to a man who loves her like she is the woman of his dreams and just worships the damn ground she walks on and would do anything for her, but the one time she said to him, "I'm tired of being the one who plans our fabulous vacations. This year, you get to do it," they didn't go on a vacation because he couldn't plan one. She was righteously indignant and thought I would agree with her, and I was like, "wait, how long have you been married now, and NOW you think you need to test his planning skills?" I know that when they first got together, she thought it was a little annoying and over time it became this huge cause for her, and something to fix, and he was completely unaware that anything was wrong because he was just being the guy he had always been. Don't be my friend. Really think honestly about whether unreliability is a deal breaker for you.
posted by janey47 at 5:25 PM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
He's a flake, to an unacceptable degree, or he is keeping you in a sort of reserve status that makes me wonder if you're the only romantic interest in his life. I'd shift him to casual friend status and move along to date some better prospects.
posted by bearwife at 5:28 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bearwife at 5:28 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Part of my question is wanting to know when that will be crystal clear- what kinds of things I can ask/say, how long to wait, etc.
It's REALLY unclear to me from what you've written here what you want to happen. Like, I know you want to date him, because you've specifically said that to us, but looking at this pretending I don't know that already, this looks like how I try to be friends with people (people, men and women, who I want to be friends with). If I were him it would NOT be clear to me AT ALL that you wanted to date me. And, just in case I wanted to date you, I would be hesitant to make a move since I'd think you were just trying to be friends, and it's not especially cool to try to turn a friend outing into a date unless intentions are clear and both people are sending signals like whoa.
SO.
What you need to do is pull out whatever communication method you use with this guy (email? [NOT WORK EMAIL] text? gchat? whatever) and say: "I had fun this weekend. Are you free this Saturday for dinner? I'd like to go out on a proper date with you."
That smooths the edges of the date-not-a-date confusion of whatever you guys did driving around and makes your future intentions clear.
posted by phunniemee at 5:33 PM on July 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
It's REALLY unclear to me from what you've written here what you want to happen. Like, I know you want to date him, because you've specifically said that to us, but looking at this pretending I don't know that already, this looks like how I try to be friends with people (people, men and women, who I want to be friends with). If I were him it would NOT be clear to me AT ALL that you wanted to date me. And, just in case I wanted to date you, I would be hesitant to make a move since I'd think you were just trying to be friends, and it's not especially cool to try to turn a friend outing into a date unless intentions are clear and both people are sending signals like whoa.
SO.
What you need to do is pull out whatever communication method you use with this guy (email? [NOT WORK EMAIL] text? gchat? whatever) and say: "I had fun this weekend. Are you free this Saturday for dinner? I'd like to go out on a proper date with you."
That smooths the edges of the date-not-a-date confusion of whatever you guys did driving around and makes your future intentions clear.
posted by phunniemee at 5:33 PM on July 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
The fact that you didn't hear from after 10 on both occasions is a little weird to me, night owl or no. Are you totally sure he's single?
posted by Countess Sandwich at 5:40 PM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Countess Sandwich at 5:40 PM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think you did the right thing by making the first move... sort of. I mean, at least you initiated some time alone, but you are still waiting around for him to ask you out. The car trip was a nice way of breaking the ice but I second phunniemee that you are not being clear that you want a date as opposed to general unstructured private time, which could just as easily be interpreted as "getting to know a new friend." So I don't think it's rational to say it's "his move" now, since you didn't really go out on a date with him in the first place.
posted by deathpanels at 5:51 PM on July 28, 2015
posted by deathpanels at 5:51 PM on July 28, 2015
I think some of you guys are still giving him too much credit. Even if he doesn't think she's interested romantically and he's just in casual friend mode, it's still a pretty dick move to completely blow someone off for movie plans in favor of hanging out at the pool and not calling them. I really don't see this guy stepping it up from here.
posted by MsMolly at 6:05 PM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 6:05 PM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
The next day I was waiting to hear from him but did not..so finally around 5 I sent a text; did not hear back and I was really upset considering what happened before. Finally, after 10, he sent me a text (he had said previously he is very much a night owl and he said "sorry- i was at the pool."). I was a bit miffed and said, "I thought we had plans". He replied, "we did, let's go!" at that point it was too late for the movies.
This bit was what got me. The FIRST flake-out, I think you could give a pass to, but this SECOND round of bullshit? No, god no ... drop this dude.
I mean ... you guys had plans ... specific plans, involving the movie. And his excuse for not being responsive to you or actually being available when you had plans was "sorry, I was at the pool"? That isn't an excuse. That's not a problem with planning. That's just plain blowing you off.
The guy will make you very unhappy if you expect anything more from him.
posted by jayder at 6:16 PM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
This bit was what got me. The FIRST flake-out, I think you could give a pass to, but this SECOND round of bullshit? No, god no ... drop this dude.
I mean ... you guys had plans ... specific plans, involving the movie. And his excuse for not being responsive to you or actually being available when you had plans was "sorry, I was at the pool"? That isn't an excuse. That's not a problem with planning. That's just plain blowing you off.
The guy will make you very unhappy if you expect anything more from him.
posted by jayder at 6:16 PM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
This guy is willing to hang out with you when it suits him because you're offering yourself up on a silver platter, but I don't think he wants to date you, and his behavior is sketchy and shows a lack of character. I think he knows you are interested in him and just doesn't care very much, because you work together he can't totally ghost/ignore you and you're feeding his ego. I would make no further moves at all and be friendly but cool at work, if I were you I'd drop him completely, do not text him or ask him out again, do not make it any clearer that you're interested in him, especially because he's a coworker and you'll look back and regret it. I agree that it's unclear whether the guy considers your time together "dates" but I don't think it matters, the flakiness alone is enough reason to not even want to be friends with this guy. You deserve so much more than this.
In my experience it doesn't matter how much chemistry or fun there was on a date, the only tell-tale sign someone wants to date you is that they keep setting up dates to see you and they follow through. Even shy/relatively inexperienced-with-dating guys can and will do this, there is almost no excuse, and if you're putting yourself out there first there is literally no acceptable excuse. After going on 8 first dates in the last 6 months, of the ones that went past the first date, all of the guys set up a second date before the first was over.
This is what interested dates behave like (both online dates): one guy came down with a bad cold the week of our date and gave me a daily update via text about whether he thought he could make the date or not. He made the date, was still a bit sick but hardly mentioned it, set up the next date at the end of the night, and continued to do that until things fizzled out after a few weeks (at which point he did start to flake). Another guy didn't tell me he was coming off of a night shift when I suggested a lunch date. He showed up on time on very little sleep, didn't complain or even fully explain things at first because he was focused on getting to know me, and asked me out for the next night. The other guys I had first dates with didn't flake, texted/emailed me first most of the time, confirmed the date the day of, and asked me out before the date was over when they were interested. The ones that weren't were still friendly and positive at the end of the date, one set up a second date but then flaked (by not responding to my text confirming we were going out at such and such day/time), and two were like "let's do this again" but never followed up with firm plans for a second date. With those guys when I followed up one didn't respond at all and the other waited a few days then called to say he wasn't ready to date.
I love Heather Havrilesky's (now at NY Mag, formerly Ask Polly at The Awl) advice columns on dating, they've helped me when I'm been hung up on these issues, this is a good one: http://www.theawl.com/2014/02/ask-polly-should-i-play-it-cool-or-ask-for-more-and-be-that-girl, as is this one: http://www.theawl.com/2013/10/ask-polly-how-do-i-find-true-love-and-stop-dating-half-assed-men.
posted by lafemma at 6:42 PM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
In my experience it doesn't matter how much chemistry or fun there was on a date, the only tell-tale sign someone wants to date you is that they keep setting up dates to see you and they follow through. Even shy/relatively inexperienced-with-dating guys can and will do this, there is almost no excuse, and if you're putting yourself out there first there is literally no acceptable excuse. After going on 8 first dates in the last 6 months, of the ones that went past the first date, all of the guys set up a second date before the first was over.
This is what interested dates behave like (both online dates): one guy came down with a bad cold the week of our date and gave me a daily update via text about whether he thought he could make the date or not. He made the date, was still a bit sick but hardly mentioned it, set up the next date at the end of the night, and continued to do that until things fizzled out after a few weeks (at which point he did start to flake). Another guy didn't tell me he was coming off of a night shift when I suggested a lunch date. He showed up on time on very little sleep, didn't complain or even fully explain things at first because he was focused on getting to know me, and asked me out for the next night. The other guys I had first dates with didn't flake, texted/emailed me first most of the time, confirmed the date the day of, and asked me out before the date was over when they were interested. The ones that weren't were still friendly and positive at the end of the date, one set up a second date but then flaked (by not responding to my text confirming we were going out at such and such day/time), and two were like "let's do this again" but never followed up with firm plans for a second date. With those guys when I followed up one didn't respond at all and the other waited a few days then called to say he wasn't ready to date.
I love Heather Havrilesky's (now at NY Mag, formerly Ask Polly at The Awl) advice columns on dating, they've helped me when I'm been hung up on these issues, this is a good one: http://www.theawl.com/2014/02/ask-polly-should-i-play-it-cool-or-ask-for-more-and-be-that-girl, as is this one: http://www.theawl.com/2013/10/ask-polly-how-do-i-find-true-love-and-stop-dating-half-assed-men.
posted by lafemma at 6:42 PM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
sorry, but his actions are speaking loud and clear (I've been there). As someone noted above guys (even really shy ones) who are into you will pursue you. As it stands, you are doing the chasing and I have to disagree with a commenter above - to me it sounds like he knows exactly what's up - that you want to date him as opposed to being his new BFF.
Honestly, how many platonic friendships do you have with guys that you meet in your adult life that isn't through other friends? Even if you did meet a guy and were only interested in being his friend, you probably wouldn't be hanging out with him alone in the park for 2 hours being all flirty (and guys know this). Men are not as clueless as everyone would have you believe.
The best way to get the upper hand, which is what you seem to want, is instead of feigning disinterest, truly get the upper hand and date other men. Stop making this guy your focus and allowing him to rile you up, have you waiting by the phone, etc. It is soooo much easier to stop thinking about guys who are playing games when you have other guys that you find cute who are interested in you in return.
posted by soooo at 7:40 PM on July 28, 2015
Honestly, how many platonic friendships do you have with guys that you meet in your adult life that isn't through other friends? Even if you did meet a guy and were only interested in being his friend, you probably wouldn't be hanging out with him alone in the park for 2 hours being all flirty (and guys know this). Men are not as clueless as everyone would have you believe.
The best way to get the upper hand, which is what you seem to want, is instead of feigning disinterest, truly get the upper hand and date other men. Stop making this guy your focus and allowing him to rile you up, have you waiting by the phone, etc. It is soooo much easier to stop thinking about guys who are playing games when you have other guys that you find cute who are interested in you in return.
posted by soooo at 7:40 PM on July 28, 2015
Honestly, how many platonic friendships do you have with guys that you meet in your adult life that isn't through other friends? Even if you did meet a guy and were only interested in being his friend, you probably wouldn't be hanging out with him alone in the park for 2 hours being all flirty (and guys know this).
This is pretty dismissive of the experience of literally dozens of women who don't have hangups about seeking male platonic friendships. "Flirting" is a very subjective thing. "Teach me how to parallel park" isn't on my personal rolodex of sexual come-ons, I don't know about you, no judgment.
I'm not saying this guy isn't a flake--he may turn out to be a complete loser dud. But right now I don't see that there's been a clear indication at all from the OP that she has the hots for this guy, and if she wants to actually pursue that type of relationship with him, now she knows what she needs to do. (bearette, I trust that you'll drop this guy if he flakes on an actual date-date, yes? Because you do deserve to date someone who wants to date you back.)
posted by phunniemee at 8:03 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is pretty dismissive of the experience of literally dozens of women who don't have hangups about seeking male platonic friendships. "Flirting" is a very subjective thing. "Teach me how to parallel park" isn't on my personal rolodex of sexual come-ons, I don't know about you, no judgment.
I'm not saying this guy isn't a flake--he may turn out to be a complete loser dud. But right now I don't see that there's been a clear indication at all from the OP that she has the hots for this guy, and if she wants to actually pursue that type of relationship with him, now she knows what she needs to do. (bearette, I trust that you'll drop this guy if he flakes on an actual date-date, yes? Because you do deserve to date someone who wants to date you back.)
posted by phunniemee at 8:03 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
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In my book, if a guy wants to date you, he will make it CRYSTAL CLEAR. That is, he will call you up, ask you for dates, etc. A flaky guy either has a girlfriend or wife in the background, or ... I can't think of anything else, except he's a player, and you don't want that either.
In short: bad news: avoid like the plague and seek your romances elsewhere.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:51 PM on July 28, 2015 [5 favorites]