a big ole bag of confusion, a possible engagement, and me
July 8, 2015 8:54 AM   Subscribe

When faced with sexual confusion, mental health struggles, and a possible engagement, what is a guy to do?

I'm asking this question to hear ideas and stories. I don't know if I can use "yes or no" style advice on such a tough decision, but if that's what you've got I'll hear it. I think I am hoping to build some confidence around my decision based on what others have experienced (or heard about from friends).

I have been dating a woman for four years. I am 36 / M, she is 32 / F. She is my first real girlfriend, I am her second real boyfriend. We are each others' first romantic relationship we've really cared about.

The main reason it took me so long to date was that I have a history of sexual trauma (family relatives when I was a child) as well as a history of mental health problems in my immediate family (dad depression, mom anxiety / bpd). I have had many years of struggle with mental health problems and anxieties about sex.

My GF has her own history of sexual trauma and family problems.

We both have found some peace in our relationship with each other. We've worked through lots of shit in and out of therapy. She is very much wholeheartedly in love with me. She wants very much to get married and have kids.

Despite caring for her deeply, I am unsure I want to marry or have kids. Sex is still a big issue for me, and tied to love more than I want it to be. Despite my wishes for sexual Vanilla-osity, I am sexually programmed for situations where I feel dominated. (She isn't dominant, but tries her best.) Despite my wishes, I am sexually programmed to have a calf fetish. (She is very fit and pretty, but her calves are a turn-off.) Despite my wishes, I am attracted to large, strong, independent women, physically and mentally. She is not weak, but is small and dependent on my strength in a way that has more yin and less yang. Because of all these factors I worry about the strength of my attraction to her, and the strength of my love. Though I want to NOT worry about these things and NOT be ruled by sexual attraction, that's not the world as it is for me. And sex isn't just sex-- it's tied to lots of other emotions and bonds.

I also worry about having kids. It feels risky having kids when I don't feel secure in our bond. It feels risky having kids when there is a potential for mental health problems. It feels risky having kids when I know I need a certain amount of sleep, a certain amount of down time, a certain amount of time alone. She has said kids are not a dealbreaker, but that she would be extremely sad if we didn't have them.

I enjoy our time together when it's non-sexual. And the sex isn't awful, it's just a bit of a chore, unsatisfying, and consistently stressful to me. She is a kind, funny, honest woman who would make a great mother. It would be extremely convenient if I didn't have these worries, and could just wholeheartedly marry her and have kids.

But that's not how it is. I have talked to her about all these things and she still wants to go ahead with marriage and kids. She is waiting for my answer. I have imagined a life for us where we are a happy family and I feel a chronic low-grade sadness at losing the opportunity for the sex I want and the love I want. I have also imagined a life where we are no longer together. Neither life seems appealing!

In the end neither scenario will bring me true happiness, which I know I have to cultivate from within. I am not making either decision with the delusion that either will be a permanent happiness or unhappiness. I just want to make the right decision for my relationship right now based on as much information as I can collect.

So my question to you, MetaFiltereans, is whether you have faced such a decision, or know somebody who has. What did you / they choose? How did it turn out? Were their worries eventually forgotten as they settled into a family? Did the worries grow stronger?

I know the conditions for an optimal state of feelings when starting a marriage, and know I don't meet those conditions. For some people, this fact enough is reason to avoid or postpone the engagement. And maybe those people are right. I am less interested in that discussion, though, as I already know I'm not in an optimal state and will have to make the decision regardless. It would be very helpful to hear from others who have faced a similar problem or know those who have. If you can help, I would appreciate it greatly!
posted by MyBeautifulThrowaway to Human Relations (27 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite

 
If my boyfriend felt about me the way you feel about your girlfriend, I would be devastated. I would absolutely not want him to marry me. You need to let her go so she can find someone who doesn't consider sex with her a stressful chore, who doesn't consider her entire being an active turnoff. You will kill her slowly from within if you marry her. If you love her, you will not want to kill her slowly from within.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:59 AM on July 8, 2015 [46 favorites]


"I enjoy our time together when it's non-sexual. And the sex isn't awful, it's just a bit of a chore, unsatisfying, and consistently stressful to me."


You can not marry this person. Let her go asap. She needs to find someone who loves her the way she deserves to be loved. She is mistaken that what you feel for her would be enough. It isn't. I'm sorry.
posted by jbenben at 9:05 AM on July 8, 2015 [14 favorites]


You describe sex with your girlfriend as a chore.
Your positives (if the sex weren't an issue) are how convenient the relationship would be.

A chore. Convenient. Not attracted to her.

Please please please break up with this woman so she can go date people who actually love and want her and respect her for exactly who she is.
posted by phunniemee at 9:06 AM on July 8, 2015 [20 favorites]


I have not been in a situation analogous to yours, so I apologize in advance if I'm not fulfilling the criteria of the answer you need and obviously feel free to ask the mods to delete this answer if you don't feel it's appropriate. Anyway...

I have imagined a life for us where we are a happy family and I feel a chronic low-grade sadness at losing the opportunity for the sex I want and the love I want. I have also imagined a life where we are no longer together. Neither life seems appealing!

You've got those two down, but now imagine a third situation: you are married to a woman who you do not find sexually appealing/compatible regardless of what she or you can do about it. Chances are an open relationship/polyamory are not in your future (I feel like you'd have brought it up if it was) and at this point your only outlet for the sort of sex that will make you feel fulfilled is, for the lack of a better term, immoral. On top of that you have kids -- and if she would be "extremely sad" for lack of children, you will end up having kids if you get married and want to stay married -- so on top of whatever fallout from your extramarital sex and/or relationships you have would cost you and your wife, it'll mess up their lives too.

Or, you don't have an affair. You just slowly grow to resent your wife and by extension your entire family more and more over the years.

I feel like this scenario is a whole lot less appealing than the two you've encountered, so this is the scenario you avoid. If after four years you don't find her sexually appealing, if sex is a chore, if you're iffy-to-negative about kids and she is very much on board with kids, you are wasting her time in ways you'll never be able to make up for and in ways you may not be able to forgive yourself for (and you will almost certainly not be forgiven for.)
posted by griphus at 9:07 AM on July 8, 2015 [4 favorites]


I think my ex-husband could've written this post 25 years ago. After 19 years of marriage we finally ended it. We have kids together and he doesn't regret having them in his life but doing so brought him to his rock bottom in life. I regret having accepted his decision to marry me. If I could go back, I would tell myself that I deserved someone who was wholeheartedly into the idea of marriage and kids. Not just with me but as a desire they had before they even met me.

If you decide to marry this woman, knowing full well that you are not attracted to her and that you do not want kids, I do not see how that can have a successful ending. If you love her at all, give her what she wants by allowing her to move on and find someone who loves all of her unreservedly.
posted by dawkins_7 at 9:11 AM on July 8, 2015 [11 favorites]


This is your first relationship and so you don't have a huge field of reference for this stuff, so it's ok to feel conflicted and confused.

I was in a relationship for a lot of years. It wasn't my first, but it was my first real, long, grown-up relationship. I experienced this low-level sadness and dissatisfaction you are experiencing, and assumed it was just "what happens" when you are in a mature relationship.

The good news is, it really isn't. Now that you know you can do this, that you can have and maintain a functional relationship, it will be possible to find someone who you can do all that and more with. There will be someone, in fact probably several different someones out there, who you could care for this deeply but also desire deeply, and see a long wonderful future with.

The bad news is, it will be very painful to make this break so that you can both go on to find people who fulfill you more fully. You need to do this, so stand strong, but it will suck. There is no way round it. Be respectful to her at all times and give everything a lot of time to heal, and you will be ok.
posted by greenish at 9:18 AM on July 8, 2015 [4 favorites]


Since you asked for anecdotes: a friend of mine got married in similar circumstances, without strong sexual compatibility, to a guy who was ambivalent-to-negative about the idea of having children (she really wanted them) and ambivalent about getting married (but loved her and didn't want to break up, so went along with it). Half a decade on, they are still in a miserable limbo w/r/t children, have not deepened the relationship particularly, and both seem unhappily "stuck" in many ways; but she's now much closer to 40 and in a much less advantageous position to find someone else with whom to realize her dream of having a family. Her life is now looking very bleak (with no particular prospect of getting better), partly through her own choices, but in large part because he was to cowardly to be honest with her about what he felt.

Things like this do not magically get better with time or commitment. It's by no means an easy move to make, particularly with emotional wounds of your own, but if you care about this woman's happiness, you really need to find some strength to let her go.
posted by Bardolph at 9:21 AM on July 8, 2015 [8 favorites]


So my question to you, MetaFiltereans, is whether you have faced such a decision, or know somebody who has. What did you / they choose? How did it turn out? Were their worries eventually forgotten as they settled into a family? Did the worries grow stronger?

I can't say I've ever seen something like this work out. I've seen it, several times, but it's always a shit show. Time, Marriage and Children do not FIX ANYTHING. Baseline sexual incompatibly, ambivalence about children, either one by itself is a gameover for most people. On a few occasions I've seen people "push through" and get married and have kids anyway and that's really really sad.

If someone felt this way about you would you want them to marry you?
posted by French Fry at 9:27 AM on July 8, 2015 [4 favorites]


The only way this would work would be if it were a...a...marriage of convenience or a mariage blanc, where you were intentionally getting together for the economic security and companionship and both comfortable seeking sexual relationships elsewhere or both uninterested in sex. I have seen this kind of thing work when both partners are truly emotionally onboard - not without its own issues, but all relationships have issues. But unless that is something both you and your girlfriend are really, truly prepared for and intentional about, this sounds like a bad idea.

However - large, strong, independent women are not exactly at a premium in the dating world, so you should be able to find and date one who will be socially and intellectually compatible with you.
posted by Frowner at 9:36 AM on July 8, 2015 [3 favorites]


Please understand that the things you are describing, the feelings and thoughts you have in regards to your girlfriend, the type of relationship you have.... yeah, this is not a good foundation for a marriage. Hell, this isn't a good foundation for a relationship. You aren't happy, you aren't getting what you want sexually, you aren't satisfied, etc.

What you want is a friendship with your girlfriend. Seriously, it sounds like you would be happiest if your relationship with your girlfriend was a FRIEND relationship, not a ROMANTIC one. You say that things are great as long as they are non-sexual - that is friendship. A good romantic/marriage quality relationship is what PLUS a mutually satisfying sexual relationship. You cannot have a good, solid, happy marriage with only half of that.

So end this. You deserve a relationship that makes you happy in all ways, and your girlfriend deserves to be in a relationship where her partner is as in love with her as she is with them. I 100% get that it is scary and upsetting to end your first serious relationship, especially when the relationship isn't all bad, and there can be a lot of fear that maybe this is the best you can get and that you may be throwing away your only chance, but please understand - you are never going to be happy in this relationship. Things like this does not get better. Sexual compatibility in particular is very much a "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" for relationships from my perspective because it isn't easily changed or worked on in the same way some personality/communication problems can be. The problems you have are only going to get worse as time goes on and be bigger problems as time goes on.

As an anecdote: My husband's first marriage was sort of similar to what you describe (emotionally ambivalent, sexual incompatibility, etc) but they got married because "thats what you do" and it was "the next step", and they entered into it with a vague hope that things will get better in time. All of those issues never got better. That marriage ended in divorce (obviously since he's my husband now).
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 9:40 AM on July 8, 2015 [6 favorites]


Also, just stop and think about this for a second.... when you imagine marrying her you are struck with "low grade sadness". If someone else told you "when I think about marrying my girlfriend I have low grade sadness" would you say "Sounds good! Marry her!"? The idea of marrying someone should make you excited and happy, not hesitant, sad, and concerned. This is a base level thing. Stop trying to convince yourself that what you're feeling is not a big deal.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 9:48 AM on July 8, 2015 [2 favorites]


Think about what it means that nowhere in your question do you ever consider what this kind of marriage would mean for her happiness. Marrying someone you admit to not enjoying sex with is cruel. Stop thinking about only yourself and let her meet someone else.
posted by cakelite at 9:59 AM on July 8, 2015 [4 favorites]


She wants very much to get married and have kids.

Despite caring for her deeply, I am unsure I want to marry or have kids.


The thing about marriage and kids, for me, is that anything other than a wholehearted FUCK YES is actually a no.

Let her go. Both of you deserve someone who is daffy about you in and out of bed. Sexual incompatibility + life goal incompatibility = marriage and kids ain't gonna fix nothing here.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:00 AM on July 8, 2015 [5 favorites]


Despite my wishes for sexual Vanilla-osity, I am sexually programmed for situations where I feel dominated.

I'll just focus on this one line because it's the thing I have the most experience with. This desire never ever goes away and I've known a lot of people who end up cheating on their partners to fulfill it. Don't put you and your partner through that.
posted by desjardins at 10:24 AM on July 8, 2015 [5 favorites]


I personally think it's cruel and immoral to marry someone you aren't really attracted to.

You're depriving her of the chance to meet and marry someone who will really love her and have kids with her. She's 32. She doesn't have forever.

Honor what feelings of love and caring you do have for her and let her go. Be brave, sacrifice the comfort and the companionship, and do the best thing for her and ultimately for you.
posted by quincunx at 10:30 AM on July 8, 2015 [5 favorites]


Don't marry this person. Don't spend X amount of years trying to make it work, and then going through the heartache of having to extricate yourself from your shared life.
posted by The River Ivel at 10:32 AM on July 8, 2015


I am unsure I want to marry or have kids

Please don't marry this woman. Marriage is hard enough when you're paired ideally with someone and are compatible on all levels. Both of you deserve to have what you really want in a partner, and there's no way that she would want a husband who is not attracted to her and thinks of sex with her as a chore. Even if she's not aware of your feelings (please spare her the terrible pain of hearing this from you in any form) she doesn't want a marriage where this is the foundation. This situation will not improve or change over time.

Break up with her. Do it soon. Do it completely. She wants a husband and children and she's at an age where that will become less and less possible the longer you waffle. It'll be hard, but it's the very best way to show her you care for her and respect her. And, it's the best way to show yourself the same.
posted by quince at 11:41 AM on July 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


You guys are incompatible - physically, sexually, emotionally. This is not a good formula for marriage and possibly kids.

You both deserve to be in relationships with other people where sex isn't a chore, where you both get what you want out of the relationship, and where the relationship is headed in a mutually agreeable direction. It's okay that you are ambivalent about kids and marriage! It's okay that you have certain sexual preferences! You deserve those things in a partner.

Source: I was married once before to a man I wasn't sexually attracted to, who really wanted kids while I was ambivalent, who was nice and convenient and loyal but we really didn't have much in common. After several years of dating and a couple years of marriage, I met someone who was actually a good fit and it really opened my eyes to what I was missing. And then I cheated and that's when I knew the marriage was just wrong. We divorced, and I hurt him badly and it was a big mess. Things are good now, but I really wish I hadn't gotten married then.
posted by joan_holloway at 11:43 AM on July 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


Don't do this to her. Don't do it to yourself.
posted by kapers at 11:58 AM on July 8, 2015 [2 favorites]


And the sex isn't awful, it's just a bit of a chore, unsatisfying, and consistently stressful to me.

I feel like you have an actual ethical obligation to let this woman go.

So my question to you, MetaFiltereans, is whether you have faced such a decision, or know somebody who has. What did you / they choose? How did it turn out? Were their worries eventually forgotten as they settled into a family? Did the worries grow stronger?

How does it usually turn out? Either divorce after some number of wasted years or a bleak joyless life of quiet desperation.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:37 PM on July 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


I stayed. We never got married, but I stayed. Insisted I wanted to and that I was doing so voluntarily. Like I wanted the years of confusion and regret that devolved into manipulation, gas lighting, contempt, disgust, and abuse. We were two stray dogs trapped in a cage of our design, snapping and withdrawing and laying together miserably. I convinced myself that this was the best it was going to get, frozen in place, blinded by fever dreams of a decade-long hallucination that we could be something right and good someday if we only just stuck it out.

We built our own fortress of misery brick by brick with each passing day we stayed together. It's been three years since I walked and I'm still recovering in therapy.

Let her go.
posted by Snacks at 1:00 PM on July 8, 2015 [11 favorites]


She has said kids are not a dealbreaker, but that she would be extremely sad if we didn't have them.
Uh, yeah. That's what a dealbreaker is. It is a situation where there is no compromising. You either have a kid or you don't. Not having kids is a life-long situation. Why would your would-be fiancée want to be "extremely sad" for life?

Your girlfriend is not 22, she is 32. At 22 you can afford to say "meh, I don't know if I want kids, who cares" and think about it for a while. At 32, you either do or do not want (biological) kids. Let her know your answer and be prepared for her to reassess the relationship based on that information.

Whether or not you want to get married is less of a dealbreaker since you could always get married at some point down the line if you were both happy waiting.
posted by deathpanels at 1:45 PM on July 8, 2015 [3 favorites]


It's very hard to care for someone and wish you could feel more comfortable with what they want, or be the person they want you to be.

You're not comfortable. You're not happy. This will not change long term. If you don't break up, you will ruin your friendship.
posted by bile and syntax at 4:07 PM on July 8, 2015


The answers here seem pretty uniform in their advice, and I wonder if it's what you wanted to hear when you posted this question. If you can, try to examine how it feels to hear this chorus of people, some of whom have lived through nearly identical situations. What comes up? Feeling convinced? Surprised? Hurt? Even if the answers are not directly giving you the content you were hoping for, there can be useful information gleaned from how you're reacting to all of it. That's all I'm trying to say.
posted by obliterati at 4:40 PM on July 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


This will only get more painful until it ends, and it will end. I recommend ending it before it's painful for some helpless children as well.
posted by ead at 6:18 PM on July 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Not sure how to say what I want to say, but here goes:

This sounds like someone you were able to work through some of your your anxieties and sexual trauma with (and vice versa). She provided a safe space for learning intimacy and working on your stuff. In part because the stakes were not as high as they would be with someone who's a perfect match - because, let's face it, if you'd have met that perfect match when you didn't have any of your shit together, you would've freaked and lost out on that great match and been very very sad and have lost EVEN MORE to your past (or you would've had to pull that shit together fast to be present and brave and vulnerable and intimate and okay.)

You can stay with this safe-ish harbor. But you won't get any farther in your personal work, and you won't have a fulfilling relationship. But you'll be safe-ish. I think that's mighty appealing. (But she won't be. Safe, that is. She'll be sad most of the time.)

What you might not be considering is that the next time you have to build intimacy and feel doubt and anxiety and reconsider your traumatic past -- it might be easy. It can be easy when you find a good match. Not totally carefree everyday, but on the whole, easy. It can be easy to let a gorgeous, kind, sexy, beautiful woman with awesome calves dominate you a little bit in bed and giggle with you about it in the morning.

But you have to risk it. You have to let it be easy. You can't be "the traumatized one" on principle, or just because you always were.

You have to let it be easy.

(Your present girlfriend deserves to have it easy and good and giggly, too.)
posted by vitabellosi at 6:33 PM on July 8, 2015 [6 favorites]


Response by poster: Thank you to everybody who posted their stories and ideas in this thread. Along with help from friends and trusted advisers in the "outernet," I was able to mine and refine a chunk of clarity from the depths of ye olde confusion cavern. I broke up with my girlfriend last week. It felt good to confront the elephant in the room, though at the time I must admit I was weak in the knees as it seemed to me the elephant had suddenly decided to charge instead of just... elephanting around. It was scary as hell!

But I survived. And feel flattened. Along with sad and still a bit scared, but also relieved. She and I had a wonderful relationship and I have great hope for both of us finding joyful, relaxed, buoyant love in the future with other people.
posted by MyBeautifulThrowaway at 10:29 AM on August 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


« Older PGY 4 Surgical resident contract not renewed -...   |   Navigating Parent Wedding Politics Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.