Working on indie films
July 1, 2015 8:11 AM Subscribe
Sometimes you don't get paid at the beginning, is that okay?
I have freelance opportunities to get experience in research and writing for documentary film. These things are a labour of love, and the producers themselves probably just break even on them. I feel just as passionate about documentary film, and accept the fact that you do it for love of the medium rather than to make a living. (I'm not doing it for money and expect to be working a day job obviously)
When it comes to starting out, though, and working on other people's projects, I am just wondering if it is appropriate, or common, to work for free. I'm willing to do it, but I don't to be taken advantage of , if that is not the norm.
In return for my work, I should get a credit in the film, right? Is this a normal compensation? Am I being a dummy if I work for free?
Also, if anyone knows of film industry forums where I would be better to post this, please share.Thank you
I have freelance opportunities to get experience in research and writing for documentary film. These things are a labour of love, and the producers themselves probably just break even on them. I feel just as passionate about documentary film, and accept the fact that you do it for love of the medium rather than to make a living. (I'm not doing it for money and expect to be working a day job obviously)
When it comes to starting out, though, and working on other people's projects, I am just wondering if it is appropriate, or common, to work for free. I'm willing to do it, but I don't to be taken advantage of , if that is not the norm.
In return for my work, I should get a credit in the film, right? Is this a normal compensation? Am I being a dummy if I work for free?
Also, if anyone knows of film industry forums where I would be better to post this, please share.Thank you
As long as you have an attitude that you are doing something for the love of it and not for the money you will never be able to make a living doing that thing. You can love what you're doing and also find a way to make it pay the bills - these are not mutually exclusive and insisting on getting paid for your efforts doesn't mean you love the work less.
posted by cubby at 8:25 AM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cubby at 8:25 AM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you are doing this for free then it is basically a hobby. And there is nothing wrong with that. If you're really just starting out and are at intern-level skill with these things, doing a bit of unpaid work can be seen as a way to get experience without actually paying for it (like going to school for it, for example).
That said, like any volunteer position, you should be well-compensated in other ways (fed, treated well, given good recommendations when you go for jobs, respected, etc) and if any of these things aren't happening, then people aren't valuing your time. There are definitely differences of opinion about whether people should do unpaid work at all (there are a lot of considerations about how this affects The Market in addition to just how it affects you personally) that you'll have to check with your own moral compass, but those are the main outlines that I know about volunteer work in general.
posted by jessamyn at 8:28 AM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
That said, like any volunteer position, you should be well-compensated in other ways (fed, treated well, given good recommendations when you go for jobs, respected, etc) and if any of these things aren't happening, then people aren't valuing your time. There are definitely differences of opinion about whether people should do unpaid work at all (there are a lot of considerations about how this affects The Market in addition to just how it affects you personally) that you'll have to check with your own moral compass, but those are the main outlines that I know about volunteer work in general.
posted by jessamyn at 8:28 AM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you want to make documentaries, get a camera some mikes and a good laptop with editing software and make one. If you want to be in other areas of filmmaking, go for that, it's really insanely competitive but people do manage to do it. You will be taken advantage of. You will work hard and oops not get paid sometimes. If a shoot sounds like fun go for it, but unless you see cash on the day of the shoot (or legit union paycheck) it's a hobby.
If you know nothing, putting in some time is worth it for your education, if it seems repetitive and you're not having fun, well keep your current commitments but don't listen to the .... producer.
Read William Goldman.
posted by sammyo at 8:35 AM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you know nothing, putting in some time is worth it for your education, if it seems repetitive and you're not having fun, well keep your current commitments but don't listen to the .... producer.
Read William Goldman.
posted by sammyo at 8:35 AM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for your feedback so far! I agree that working for free devalues the labour of those doing this for a living.
So my question then would be, how should I ask about what I'm getting paid, or how I'm being compensated? The person I'm doing this with is still an emerging producer and probably isn't getting paid much herself, either. As far as I know, almost everyone in my city that does documentary has another source of income. Whether or not that makes it a 'hobby', I don't know, but I don't see what's wrong with having this as a hobby too. I just feel bad asking about getting paid, if she's not getting paid either. Please correct me if I have some silly assumptions going on here. I'm a n00b and I'm stupidly shy.
posted by winterportage at 9:24 AM on July 1, 2015
So my question then would be, how should I ask about what I'm getting paid, or how I'm being compensated? The person I'm doing this with is still an emerging producer and probably isn't getting paid much herself, either. As far as I know, almost everyone in my city that does documentary has another source of income. Whether or not that makes it a 'hobby', I don't know, but I don't see what's wrong with having this as a hobby too. I just feel bad asking about getting paid, if she's not getting paid either. Please correct me if I have some silly assumptions going on here. I'm a n00b and I'm stupidly shy.
posted by winterportage at 9:24 AM on July 1, 2015
Best answer: I work as a freelancer in documentary and I've never worked for free once in 15 years. People don't value what they get for free. If your producer isn't getting paid, she'll still have control of her film.
Of course you get a credit.
I'll drop my rate for a project I care about, but I don't volunteer. If you want to work on your own stuff, that's cool--you'll get your reward in other ways. But don't kid yourself--Michael Moore and Davis Guggenheim always pay themselves.
You can join Doculink and ask there. Most indie docs aren't DGA or WGA.
Check your inbox here, too.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:36 AM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Of course you get a credit.
I'll drop my rate for a project I care about, but I don't volunteer. If you want to work on your own stuff, that's cool--you'll get your reward in other ways. But don't kid yourself--Michael Moore and Davis Guggenheim always pay themselves.
You can join Doculink and ask there. Most indie docs aren't DGA or WGA.
Check your inbox here, too.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:36 AM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
There are always so many keen young people wanting to break into film that runners and production assistants may be people who have begged on for the sake of experience. I mean in lo/no budget grant aided indie stuff. However ALL the technical people with skills: sound, lighting camera person, WRITERS etc - they will all be paid the going professional rate. Also, on a grant-aided production with aspirations to professionalism a lot of effort is put into the funding stage to make sure people are paid and not exploited.
On your first production I think it would be ok to volunteer because you will pick up stuff you would otherwise need to go to film school for. But once you've had that experience you need to familiarise yourself with what the rates are and make sure that's what you ask for.
And make your own films if you're going to be shoestringing/kitchen tabling it. There are so many venues where a not-particularly-professional-but-interesting short film can be shown. This gives you an in, and a chance to make contacts.
posted by glasseyes at 12:39 PM on July 1, 2015
On your first production I think it would be ok to volunteer because you will pick up stuff you would otherwise need to go to film school for. But once you've had that experience you need to familiarise yourself with what the rates are and make sure that's what you ask for.
And make your own films if you're going to be shoestringing/kitchen tabling it. There are so many venues where a not-particularly-professional-but-interesting short film can be shown. This gives you an in, and a chance to make contacts.
posted by glasseyes at 12:39 PM on July 1, 2015
Response by poster: Is anyone able to answer this question
How much should I charge to do research and write a doc film treatment?
If the person can't pay me, then should I just say I won't do it? I really want to do it.
Also, I already have experience on a film set, as an intern and have taken film courses so I guess I'm past the point where you should work for free.
posted by winterportage at 6:22 AM on July 2, 2015
How much should I charge to do research and write a doc film treatment?
If the person can't pay me, then should I just say I won't do it? I really want to do it.
Also, I already have experience on a film set, as an intern and have taken film courses so I guess I'm past the point where you should work for free.
posted by winterportage at 6:22 AM on July 2, 2015
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