A Question of Fairness
June 20, 2015 10:49 AM Subscribe
I am an only child. I am about to have our second baby. I have some questions about this whole sibling relationship thing.
A few little snowflakes inside.
Husband has one brother. His Mom was a stickler for writing thier initials on the bottom of their toys. Now that the sons are in their late 30's with kids of their own (ages 10 and 2.5) the parents have been cleaning everything out and giving the men back their toys.
A few weeks ago my husband's parents were here with all his stuff. Husband was having fun going through all the old toys. His mom was hovering and saw brother's initials on a small car and snatched it away from my husband so fast that I didn't even register what was in his hand before it was gone. She said that's your brother's and it needs to go in with his stuff. I thought that was super odd. Especially given that his older brother has 2 girls, the oldest being 10, and he lives in the same town as the parents, so he could have retrieved it by now if he wanted it. I highly doubt a Matchbox car warrented such a snatched and grab reaction.
I casually mentioned it to my husband today and he said that I wouldn't understand because I'm an only child. Maybe he's right. Maybe his mom is just over the top.
What do I need to know about this whole parenting more than one kid thing? Are there different pointers based on if the siblings are same sex vs girl/boy? How much of it is temperament and how much is it parental refereeing? FWIW- kids will be 2.5 years apart, we don't know the sex of new baby.
My husband and his brother have had a host of issues in adulthood. His brother went on a tantrum once calling my husband the prodigal son because he moved away when his brother can't because of custody issues with his oldest daughter. I don't want our kids to end up like the two of them, but I'm scared. I have no clue how to foster a healthy sibling relationship that will last into adulthood. I think his Mom's reaction was super odd and over the top, but maybe that is just how you have to be?
Hope me?
Husband has one brother. His Mom was a stickler for writing thier initials on the bottom of their toys. Now that the sons are in their late 30's with kids of their own (ages 10 and 2.5) the parents have been cleaning everything out and giving the men back their toys.
A few weeks ago my husband's parents were here with all his stuff. Husband was having fun going through all the old toys. His mom was hovering and saw brother's initials on a small car and snatched it away from my husband so fast that I didn't even register what was in his hand before it was gone. She said that's your brother's and it needs to go in with his stuff. I thought that was super odd. Especially given that his older brother has 2 girls, the oldest being 10, and he lives in the same town as the parents, so he could have retrieved it by now if he wanted it. I highly doubt a Matchbox car warrented such a snatched and grab reaction.
I casually mentioned it to my husband today and he said that I wouldn't understand because I'm an only child. Maybe he's right. Maybe his mom is just over the top.
What do I need to know about this whole parenting more than one kid thing? Are there different pointers based on if the siblings are same sex vs girl/boy? How much of it is temperament and how much is it parental refereeing? FWIW- kids will be 2.5 years apart, we don't know the sex of new baby.
My husband and his brother have had a host of issues in adulthood. His brother went on a tantrum once calling my husband the prodigal son because he moved away when his brother can't because of custody issues with his oldest daughter. I don't want our kids to end up like the two of them, but I'm scared. I have no clue how to foster a healthy sibling relationship that will last into adulthood. I think his Mom's reaction was super odd and over the top, but maybe that is just how you have to be?
Hope me?
We have two boys, aged 5 and 8. We don't label toys; that would be really odd in my mind. We encourage our kids to share wherever possible, and they do. They both love Lego, but their Lego sets, once disassembled, end up in the communal boxes. Other toys are just scattered around their communal area, and the only rule we have is "if you're not playing with X right at this moment, then it's fine for your brother to play with it (as long as he takes care of it)".
There's always a certain amount of "that's mine" - "no, it's mine - give it to me!" that goes on. But kids have to learn to negotiate their way around each other. If we just stepped in and wrote initials on every toy then, ok, that might solve some arguments in the immediate term, but teaching our boys to share stuff has fostered their ability to think about the needs of others, and they've learned to play together very productively despite the age gap. On a recent holiday, both boys insisted on treating the whole family to ice-creams out of their own pockets. So the emphasis on sharing seems to be paying off.
I think you have to work out a balance between intervening and letting their interactions take their own course. You won't give them space to learn if you pre-emptively head off every disagreement; sometimes it's better to let the matter resolve itself in tears, or an argument, or a sulk, and then offer consolation to the loser. You're not always going to be around with a Sharpie to solve each disagreement with a set of initials. That's a bit of a Judgement of Solomon approach.
posted by pipeski at 11:16 AM on June 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
There's always a certain amount of "that's mine" - "no, it's mine - give it to me!" that goes on. But kids have to learn to negotiate their way around each other. If we just stepped in and wrote initials on every toy then, ok, that might solve some arguments in the immediate term, but teaching our boys to share stuff has fostered their ability to think about the needs of others, and they've learned to play together very productively despite the age gap. On a recent holiday, both boys insisted on treating the whole family to ice-creams out of their own pockets. So the emphasis on sharing seems to be paying off.
I think you have to work out a balance between intervening and letting their interactions take their own course. You won't give them space to learn if you pre-emptively head off every disagreement; sometimes it's better to let the matter resolve itself in tears, or an argument, or a sulk, and then offer consolation to the loser. You're not always going to be around with a Sharpie to solve each disagreement with a set of initials. That's a bit of a Judgement of Solomon approach.
posted by pipeski at 11:16 AM on June 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Toys belong to the family, unless they were specifically gifts for a certain child. Labelling toys, foods, whatever is completely nutso. Toys should only be divided by age appropriateness.
posted by blue_beetle at 11:21 AM on June 20, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 11:21 AM on June 20, 2015 [11 favorites]
We have two sons, 3 years apart. I didn't know what to expect either. I was what I used to call a semi-only. My sisters are 11 and 13 years older than I am so for much of my childhood I was the only child at home. As adults I am friendly, but not close, with each. The two of them have had a toxic relationship with each other since they were infants. My husband has a difficult relationship with his sister, his only sib; they're three years apart. It was normally affectionate until the reached their tweens/teens and then it went awry and has never really recovered.
All that said, my own sons were extremely close, each other's best friends and fiercest supporters, until they were in their teens and developed their separate peer groups. They maintained their affection for each other but they went their separate ways mostly, whereas when they were younger they were inseparable. Now in their 20s they're not as close--they live in different cities, have very different occupations--but are still warm and supportive, and affectionate when they're together. My own thought is that this is inherent, an unpredictable outcome of the genetic mix, and that my husband and I--apart from supplying the genetics--had very little to do with it.
We are an easy-going family, however. We had few rules other than 1) don't hurt yourselves, 2) don't hurt others, 3) respect your own and other people's property because it took considerable effort to obtain and sustain it. Kindness and courtesy within the family is even more essential than outside it. I am an adherent of Barbara Coloroso's form of discipline which is respectful and non-punitive. I don't know if any of this was a factor in my sons' relationship.
In terms of the practicalities, we were lucky in that they developed separate interests. One's favourite colour was blue, the other's was green. That sorted out towels, toothbrushes, shirts, etc., nicely. One loved Lego, the other K'nex. One was born on an even-numbered day, the other an on odd-numbered, so evenly divided chores were easy. Even-numbered kid did the chore on even-numbered days, odd-numbered kid did the chore on odd-numbered days. Where there was a single resource that had to be shared, I taught them how to negotiate very early (they were 3 and 6 years old): state your interests and find common ground. Want to watch different movies on the single TV in the house? Well, what are you both in the mood for? One wants hero action and the other wants funny. Is there a movie that does both? Hercules? Zorro?
I don't know if any of this will help. What I can tell you is that the huge and very unexpected joy for me was watching the relationship between them grow. I was completely unprepared for it and how much unalloyed pleasure it would bring.
posted by angiep at 11:22 AM on June 20, 2015 [8 favorites]
All that said, my own sons were extremely close, each other's best friends and fiercest supporters, until they were in their teens and developed their separate peer groups. They maintained their affection for each other but they went their separate ways mostly, whereas when they were younger they were inseparable. Now in their 20s they're not as close--they live in different cities, have very different occupations--but are still warm and supportive, and affectionate when they're together. My own thought is that this is inherent, an unpredictable outcome of the genetic mix, and that my husband and I--apart from supplying the genetics--had very little to do with it.
We are an easy-going family, however. We had few rules other than 1) don't hurt yourselves, 2) don't hurt others, 3) respect your own and other people's property because it took considerable effort to obtain and sustain it. Kindness and courtesy within the family is even more essential than outside it. I am an adherent of Barbara Coloroso's form of discipline which is respectful and non-punitive. I don't know if any of this was a factor in my sons' relationship.
In terms of the practicalities, we were lucky in that they developed separate interests. One's favourite colour was blue, the other's was green. That sorted out towels, toothbrushes, shirts, etc., nicely. One loved Lego, the other K'nex. One was born on an even-numbered day, the other an on odd-numbered, so evenly divided chores were easy. Even-numbered kid did the chore on even-numbered days, odd-numbered kid did the chore on odd-numbered days. Where there was a single resource that had to be shared, I taught them how to negotiate very early (they were 3 and 6 years old): state your interests and find common ground. Want to watch different movies on the single TV in the house? Well, what are you both in the mood for? One wants hero action and the other wants funny. Is there a movie that does both? Hercules? Zorro?
I don't know if any of this will help. What I can tell you is that the huge and very unexpected joy for me was watching the relationship between them grow. I was completely unprepared for it and how much unalloyed pleasure it would bring.
posted by angiep at 11:22 AM on June 20, 2015 [8 favorites]
So, obviously your husband and his brother have a somewhat not ideal sibling relationship, and yes, the "snatching" is slightly odd and may indicate favoritism or other unhealthy behavior on the part of the parents that contributed to it. But, you also have to know that kids fight over toys. All kids. Forever. It's just a thing that is inevitable. How you react to it can help them grow out of it, but it is very normal for the default toddler setting to be "MINE! MY TOY!" No matter how otherwise good the kid and parents are.
Obviously this is a very personal question, but here are some things my parents did right, and also did wrong, in my opinion:
Right:
-Be scrupulously fair. My dad was very good about this. Especially with regards to money. Big sis got this gift at this age? I will also get this gift at this age. Big sis got lessons in subject x? I got to pick lessons in subject y. Etc. I can't overstate how scrupulous and obvious he was about this, and it was one of the best things he did as a parent.
-Never play favorites. While it was obvious that sometimes I got along better or she got along better, both my mom and dad I think made a conscious decision to squash whatever personal feelings of favoritism they might have had. That they truly tried to uphold this standard of impartiality really mattered and made a difference to me psychologically. Sadly, you may think this is parenting 101 stuff, but many parents do pick favorites, even jokingly, or think as long as they aren't obvious about it they can have a favorite. My parents really tried to like and love us both.
Wrong:
-Making the older kid babysit the younger. Younger kid will end up being resented, and it's really an adult job to watch the younger kid anyway. Offloading it onto the eldest causes them to resent both you and their sibling.
-Not force us to spend quality time together. My parents let big sis do whatever, and didn't insist she be part of family activities, vacations, etc. They did not actively foster or lecture about an "inclusive, siblings are for life" ideology. I really feel that they should have. I think their example would have influenced or guilted her to bond with me more. I think kids don't generally naturally bond unless parents raise them with the explicit ideology that siblings are precious.
posted by quincunx at 11:25 AM on June 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
Obviously this is a very personal question, but here are some things my parents did right, and also did wrong, in my opinion:
Right:
-Be scrupulously fair. My dad was very good about this. Especially with regards to money. Big sis got this gift at this age? I will also get this gift at this age. Big sis got lessons in subject x? I got to pick lessons in subject y. Etc. I can't overstate how scrupulous and obvious he was about this, and it was one of the best things he did as a parent.
-Never play favorites. While it was obvious that sometimes I got along better or she got along better, both my mom and dad I think made a conscious decision to squash whatever personal feelings of favoritism they might have had. That they truly tried to uphold this standard of impartiality really mattered and made a difference to me psychologically. Sadly, you may think this is parenting 101 stuff, but many parents do pick favorites, even jokingly, or think as long as they aren't obvious about it they can have a favorite. My parents really tried to like and love us both.
Wrong:
-Making the older kid babysit the younger. Younger kid will end up being resented, and it's really an adult job to watch the younger kid anyway. Offloading it onto the eldest causes them to resent both you and their sibling.
-Not force us to spend quality time together. My parents let big sis do whatever, and didn't insist she be part of family activities, vacations, etc. They did not actively foster or lecture about an "inclusive, siblings are for life" ideology. I really feel that they should have. I think their example would have influenced or guilted her to bond with me more. I think kids don't generally naturally bond unless parents raise them with the explicit ideology that siblings are precious.
posted by quincunx at 11:25 AM on June 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
My family had a shared toy chest in the living room. All toys and coloring supplies in that chest were common property. Everything that you took out of the chest had to go back in it at the end of the day. My brother and I also had individual toys that mostly stayed in our rooms. We played a lot together as kids with the stuff from the toy chest, and we still really enjoy each other's company as adults.
posted by colfax at 11:31 AM on June 20, 2015
posted by colfax at 11:31 AM on June 20, 2015
One of five kids here; Dad was oldest of three, Mom was youngest of ten.
Your MIL was over the top here; but then, the whole labeling thing makes no sense to me --- trust me, kids know which toy belongs to which kid. With us, the rule was ask the owner if you want to play with somebody else's stuff or borrow their books or whatever; and we all knew too that always telling your siblings no meant they'd tell you no when you wanted to borrow something: what goes around does indeed come around.
The fact that your BIL has two girls has nothing to do with this (what, you think girls never like cars or trucks?!?); and every set of siblings is different. Your mother-in-law is just a bit nuts, as is evidenced by holding onto those stupid toys for more than twenty years --- I'd have tossed them out years ago: you grow up and move out, and the stuff left behind is abandoned. Nobody should assume their parents' house is some sort of museum to their sacred childhood!
posted by easily confused at 11:33 AM on June 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Your MIL was over the top here; but then, the whole labeling thing makes no sense to me --- trust me, kids know which toy belongs to which kid. With us, the rule was ask the owner if you want to play with somebody else's stuff or borrow their books or whatever; and we all knew too that always telling your siblings no meant they'd tell you no when you wanted to borrow something: what goes around does indeed come around.
The fact that your BIL has two girls has nothing to do with this (what, you think girls never like cars or trucks?!?); and every set of siblings is different. Your mother-in-law is just a bit nuts, as is evidenced by holding onto those stupid toys for more than twenty years --- I'd have tossed them out years ago: you grow up and move out, and the stuff left behind is abandoned. Nobody should assume their parents' house is some sort of museum to their sacred childhood!
posted by easily confused at 11:33 AM on June 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
A few of your recent Asks have involved you having issues with your MIL's various behaviors. This prior Ask about your MIL "playing favorites again" among her grandchildren was a real doozy. In your Ask from a few weeks ago, where your husband undermined your (SAHM) parenting, I recommended that you and your husband attend couples counseling, because you are absolutely not on the same page about parenting, and I strongly suspect his own unexamined family-of-origin issues are negatively impacting your marriage. And now having read this Ask, I definitely stand by that recommendation-- couples counseling, stat. Here's why:
"Husband was having fun going through all the old toys. His mom was hovering and saw brother's initials on a small car and snatched it away from my husband so fast that I didn't even register what was in his hand before it was gone. She said that's your brother's and it needs to go in with his stuff... I casually mentioned it to my husband today and he said that I wouldn't understand because I'm an only child. Maybe he's right. Maybe his mom is just over the top."
So when you brought this up, your husband basically disagreed with you and said he saw nothing odd at all about his mother snatching an old toy car out of his hand, and that he thinks you're wrong for thinking it odd, and then he doubled down and devalued you for not understanding and agreeing with him because you are an only child. WTF, husband?
See this pattern of disagreement your husband keeps having with you around issues of your own mothering of your son, and his mother's mothering of her sons? THIS stuff is why you need to be in counseling. Before the baby arrives.
Also, keep in mind as you worry about the future relationships between your own son and his future sibling, you are not your MIL. Yay! I know you won't "hover" and incite petty dramas years from now over old toys, and then wonder why your sons are not super close when you bent over backwards to raise them with so much "fairness." The fact that you found her behavior odd is because it is, in fact, odd as hell! (Just want to say I validate your feelings about both this incident and her generally-- she sounds rather dysfunctional.) That this struck you as odd and that you talked about it with your husband is a sign that you have the exact right instincts here, and will not create a situation where your kids have to compete with each other over meaningless material resources. To be honest, I'm not as confident about your husband though, and think therapy is going to be essential for both of you to get to a healthier place about this. Seconding the book Siblings Without Rivalry.
posted by hush at 12:14 PM on June 20, 2015 [11 favorites]
"Husband was having fun going through all the old toys. His mom was hovering and saw brother's initials on a small car and snatched it away from my husband so fast that I didn't even register what was in his hand before it was gone. She said that's your brother's and it needs to go in with his stuff... I casually mentioned it to my husband today and he said that I wouldn't understand because I'm an only child. Maybe he's right. Maybe his mom is just over the top."
So when you brought this up, your husband basically disagreed with you and said he saw nothing odd at all about his mother snatching an old toy car out of his hand, and that he thinks you're wrong for thinking it odd, and then he doubled down and devalued you for not understanding and agreeing with him because you are an only child. WTF, husband?
See this pattern of disagreement your husband keeps having with you around issues of your own mothering of your son, and his mother's mothering of her sons? THIS stuff is why you need to be in counseling. Before the baby arrives.
Also, keep in mind as you worry about the future relationships between your own son and his future sibling, you are not your MIL. Yay! I know you won't "hover" and incite petty dramas years from now over old toys, and then wonder why your sons are not super close when you bent over backwards to raise them with so much "fairness." The fact that you found her behavior odd is because it is, in fact, odd as hell! (Just want to say I validate your feelings about both this incident and her generally-- she sounds rather dysfunctional.) That this struck you as odd and that you talked about it with your husband is a sign that you have the exact right instincts here, and will not create a situation where your kids have to compete with each other over meaningless material resources. To be honest, I'm not as confident about your husband though, and think therapy is going to be essential for both of you to get to a healthier place about this. Seconding the book Siblings Without Rivalry.
posted by hush at 12:14 PM on June 20, 2015 [11 favorites]
I strongly suggest you read this book, Peaceful Parent, Happy Siblings, by my all-time favorite parenting advice-giver Dr. Laura Markham.
http://www.amazon.com/Peaceful-Parent-Happy-Siblings-Fighting/dp/0399168451
posted by Cygnet at 12:15 PM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
http://www.amazon.com/Peaceful-Parent-Happy-Siblings-Fighting/dp/0399168451
posted by Cygnet at 12:15 PM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
My family has three sets of sibling pairs - each pair is pretty close to each other in age, but far away from the next pair, if that makes sense.
I can tell you that all three of us have pretty different relationships within our pairs, and to the older or younger siblings. I mean, people are all different, and sharing genes doesn't mean that you actually have anything in common.
With that said, I fought a lot with my younger sister (she's 3 years younger) when we were kids/teens, but as adults, she is my best friend and for sure the coolest person I know. One thing that definitely helped was that we shared toys (though often within a shared pile of toys - say Ninja Turtles, or My Little Ponies - we'd have specific toys that we felt ownership of; this was somewhat fluid and occasionally resulted in ragey pony custody battles).
It ALSO helped that we grew up in a time/place where parents weren't expected to entertain their kids. If we wanted to have fun, we had to figure it out ourselves, so we played together all the time. Most of our friends around the neighborhood were similarly aged sibling pairs, which helped too. I think it's hard to develop a strong sibling bond if your parents are always leading you around to t-ball practice or Mandarin lessons or whatever.
And for the record, I babysat her all the time and, while I was sometimes annoyed that I didn't get paid, I definitely don't resent her or my parents for it now. It's a good lesson in responsibility - you have to take care of your family.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 12:20 PM on June 20, 2015
I can tell you that all three of us have pretty different relationships within our pairs, and to the older or younger siblings. I mean, people are all different, and sharing genes doesn't mean that you actually have anything in common.
With that said, I fought a lot with my younger sister (she's 3 years younger) when we were kids/teens, but as adults, she is my best friend and for sure the coolest person I know. One thing that definitely helped was that we shared toys (though often within a shared pile of toys - say Ninja Turtles, or My Little Ponies - we'd have specific toys that we felt ownership of; this was somewhat fluid and occasionally resulted in ragey pony custody battles).
It ALSO helped that we grew up in a time/place where parents weren't expected to entertain their kids. If we wanted to have fun, we had to figure it out ourselves, so we played together all the time. Most of our friends around the neighborhood were similarly aged sibling pairs, which helped too. I think it's hard to develop a strong sibling bond if your parents are always leading you around to t-ball practice or Mandarin lessons or whatever.
And for the record, I babysat her all the time and, while I was sometimes annoyed that I didn't get paid, I definitely don't resent her or my parents for it now. It's a good lesson in responsibility - you have to take care of your family.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 12:20 PM on June 20, 2015
Oh right, and also: both my parents have siblings, and are super close to them (my mom talks to each of her siblings literally every day; my dad's sister lived down the street from us). So what quincunx said above - "I think kids don't generally naturally bond unless parents raise them with the explicit ideology that siblings are precious" - makes sense to me. I for sure saw every day that my parents loved and appreciated their siblings, which definitely set an example.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 12:24 PM on June 20, 2015
posted by goodbyewaffles at 12:24 PM on June 20, 2015
I have one "real" sister, two step-brothers, and a half-sister. I am the oldest. I have a great relationship with my sister (hi, fellow mefite!), good relationships with my brothers, and a nice but distant relationship with my half-sister (I was out of the house by the time she was born, so....it's more like aunt/niece). These relationships have been fluid throughout our growing up years, and we have been tighter at some points than others. Barring anything really weird, I think we will all remain friendly and as close as we can with the geographical difficulties we face for the rest of our years. I sincerely hope so, as these relationships will statistically be the longest of my life.
I don't know how my parents impressed upon us the importance of our siblings, and honestly I'm not sure they had much to do with it - we realized at some point as teenagers that no one else in the world was going to understand exactly where we were coming from, and none of us did anything really grossly horrible to anyone else, so it made sense to try to be friends when we were old enough to stop annoying each other. Probably the only rule growing up was that we didn't have to be friends, but we did have to be nice.
I am also the parent of two children, 27 months apart (girl and boy). It's far too early to tell what their relationship will be like, but I want to reassure you that the first six months of your new baby's life may not be as hard as you think - my daughter has shown no jealousy or frustration with the new baby but has quickly adopted him as "our" project. She is possessive of her toys as any preschooler is, but also has expanded her capacity for empathy and love tenfold. My favorite moments of the day are watching her crouch down to his level to hand him a toy or play peek-a-boo - the look in both of their eyes is pure adoration. I hope they remain close, but I expect that there will be times growing up when they won't be able to stand each other - and I don't think they should always have to be friends just because they live in the same house.
Probably my favorite tip for helping a little one adjust to a new sibling is to tell the baby to wait sometimes - 10 or 15 seconds while you finish reading a book or whatever with the oldest. Make sure to tell the baby - "I'll be right there with you baby, but right now it's Sister's turn." The baby won't understand, but the older child will. I also second "Siblings Without Rivalry" (although it's for elementary age children and up) and Dr. Laura Markham's work. The goal is really to treat them like individuals (because they are) and assume that they will bond based on proximity and predilection.
And what your MIL did was weird. I suspect that your husband's issues with his brother in adulthood have roots partly in such a strict division of property when they were kids, because I would bet that your MIL was probably controlling in other aspects of their relationship as well, or made a point of comparing them. That's a sure way to destroy a relationship.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 12:49 PM on June 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know how my parents impressed upon us the importance of our siblings, and honestly I'm not sure they had much to do with it - we realized at some point as teenagers that no one else in the world was going to understand exactly where we were coming from, and none of us did anything really grossly horrible to anyone else, so it made sense to try to be friends when we were old enough to stop annoying each other. Probably the only rule growing up was that we didn't have to be friends, but we did have to be nice.
I am also the parent of two children, 27 months apart (girl and boy). It's far too early to tell what their relationship will be like, but I want to reassure you that the first six months of your new baby's life may not be as hard as you think - my daughter has shown no jealousy or frustration with the new baby but has quickly adopted him as "our" project. She is possessive of her toys as any preschooler is, but also has expanded her capacity for empathy and love tenfold. My favorite moments of the day are watching her crouch down to his level to hand him a toy or play peek-a-boo - the look in both of their eyes is pure adoration. I hope they remain close, but I expect that there will be times growing up when they won't be able to stand each other - and I don't think they should always have to be friends just because they live in the same house.
Probably my favorite tip for helping a little one adjust to a new sibling is to tell the baby to wait sometimes - 10 or 15 seconds while you finish reading a book or whatever with the oldest. Make sure to tell the baby - "I'll be right there with you baby, but right now it's Sister's turn." The baby won't understand, but the older child will. I also second "Siblings Without Rivalry" (although it's for elementary age children and up) and Dr. Laura Markham's work. The goal is really to treat them like individuals (because they are) and assume that they will bond based on proximity and predilection.
And what your MIL did was weird. I suspect that your husband's issues with his brother in adulthood have roots partly in such a strict division of property when they were kids, because I would bet that your MIL was probably controlling in other aspects of their relationship as well, or made a point of comparing them. That's a sure way to destroy a relationship.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 12:49 PM on June 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Maybe his mom is just over the top.
God yes. My mom was over the top, too. She didn't write our names on things, but she definitely had a mental rolodex of what belonged to whom. This was never really an issue since for the most part my brother and I had orthogonal interests, and during the few precious moments when we did get along, we played communally. It came up later when I started babysitting because I liked to bring toys with me for the kids to play with. If I brought something that was technically my brothers, my mom would always tell me I couldn't take it unless I asked for his permission (which makes sense of course, but we're talking toddler toys here when my brother was a teenager and really didn't care). It was much more about my mom's inability to let go of our childhoods and relinquish the control she had on us when we were little than it was about sibling dynamics. Please don't take anything your husband's mom does as gospel for child rearing. Make your own way.
Just a note to add to some sibling anecdata for you, my brother and I are 3.5 years apart (he's younger) and wooooooow we fought so much as kids. I don't know why but jesus we hated each other. Mostly. Like I mentioned above, we could have perfectly harmonious playtime together, but that would last maybe an hour tops, and nowhere near every single day. Usually we were fighting with each other. Or waiting quietly by ourselves until an opportunity to fight with the other one presented itself. And it started when my brother was a baby, just when he was starting to be able to sit up on his own. So much antagonism. It drove my parents crazy.
Anyway, we grew up, became adults, and now we're best friends. So even if you think that you're completely failing to parent siblings, remember that ultimately your kids are individual people who are going to interact with each other in their own way, and all is not lost.
Probably the most useful thing my mom did (my mom has a brother, my dad is effectively an only child so didn't weigh in on this) was remind us constantly that we would never have a closer person in our lives than our sibling. Not in the same way that you're close with a spouse, but in terms of shared life experience. No one will ever know and understand where you came from like your sibling does. It's the first and longest relationship of your life, so if you're not going to get along, at least decide to love each other regardless.
posted by phunniemee at 12:52 PM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
God yes. My mom was over the top, too. She didn't write our names on things, but she definitely had a mental rolodex of what belonged to whom. This was never really an issue since for the most part my brother and I had orthogonal interests, and during the few precious moments when we did get along, we played communally. It came up later when I started babysitting because I liked to bring toys with me for the kids to play with. If I brought something that was technically my brothers, my mom would always tell me I couldn't take it unless I asked for his permission (which makes sense of course, but we're talking toddler toys here when my brother was a teenager and really didn't care). It was much more about my mom's inability to let go of our childhoods and relinquish the control she had on us when we were little than it was about sibling dynamics. Please don't take anything your husband's mom does as gospel for child rearing. Make your own way.
Just a note to add to some sibling anecdata for you, my brother and I are 3.5 years apart (he's younger) and wooooooow we fought so much as kids. I don't know why but jesus we hated each other. Mostly. Like I mentioned above, we could have perfectly harmonious playtime together, but that would last maybe an hour tops, and nowhere near every single day. Usually we were fighting with each other. Or waiting quietly by ourselves until an opportunity to fight with the other one presented itself. And it started when my brother was a baby, just when he was starting to be able to sit up on his own. So much antagonism. It drove my parents crazy.
Anyway, we grew up, became adults, and now we're best friends. So even if you think that you're completely failing to parent siblings, remember that ultimately your kids are individual people who are going to interact with each other in their own way, and all is not lost.
Probably the most useful thing my mom did (my mom has a brother, my dad is effectively an only child so didn't weigh in on this) was remind us constantly that we would never have a closer person in our lives than our sibling. Not in the same way that you're close with a spouse, but in terms of shared life experience. No one will ever know and understand where you came from like your sibling does. It's the first and longest relationship of your life, so if you're not going to get along, at least decide to love each other regardless.
posted by phunniemee at 12:52 PM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have four, and my kids were taught to SHARE. Almost all toys are community property.
She sounds like she has issues. Don't raise your children like that.
posted by stormyteal at 1:08 PM on June 20, 2015
She sounds like she has issues. Don't raise your children like that.
posted by stormyteal at 1:08 PM on June 20, 2015
I think what his mother did was unusual, but contrary to what other people said here, I don't think it's 'weird.' She's probably responding to some things from her own upbringing and this was her effort to be scrupulously fair in the way someone else brought up above.
There's no one single best way to parent, this probably has little or nothing to do with the result of the two brothers not having an easy relationship in adulthood. I do think it's a bit odd that you don't think your brother in law's daughters might enjoy his childhood toys. You seem to be (partly) responding to something a little gender essentialist there that you might want to be on the lookout for.
posted by vunder at 1:36 PM on June 20, 2015
There's no one single best way to parent, this probably has little or nothing to do with the result of the two brothers not having an easy relationship in adulthood. I do think it's a bit odd that you don't think your brother in law's daughters might enjoy his childhood toys. You seem to be (partly) responding to something a little gender essentialist there that you might want to be on the lookout for.
posted by vunder at 1:36 PM on June 20, 2015
Response by poster: To address the gender thing, for clarification, I mentioned it as a time line thing. Brother didn't want them for his daughter 10 years ago, why would he suddenly want them for this 2 year old daughter now. I'm a female. I played with vehicles myself.
Thank you for the insights offered by everyone as well.
posted by MayNicholas at 1:42 PM on June 20, 2015
Thank you for the insights offered by everyone as well.
posted by MayNicholas at 1:42 PM on June 20, 2015
My favorite book on what can parents can do (the limits on what they can do) to help siblings is Siblings Without Rivalry. I thought I was good at not comparing my kids but this book, in a gentle way, helped me do better.
posted by metahawk at 1:54 PM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by metahawk at 1:54 PM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I remember writing my own name on my toys as a kid. My brothers and I grew up with a very strong sense of toys that were "mine" versus "sibling's" and we were constantly vying to claim different toys and trinkets. Shoot, my dad would bring back pens from conferences and we'd squabble over them. It wasn't just toys--we were competitive about food (eat all the cookies before someone else does), about transportation (who gets to sit in the front seat), about activities (why does he get to do that and I don't?). I think we associated all this stuff with love. The more you had, the more you were loved.
I would really, strongly advocate against any parenting style that fosters this. My relationship with my brothers has always been contentious as a result and it only started getting somewhat repaired in my mid-20s. I would try to adopt whatever parenting style that communicates unconditional love, that life isn't fair and that's OK, and that toys and things are meant to be shared between everyone. It's important for kids to have their own special things, but I think my brothers and I would have been better off if we were forced to share and didn't attach so much emotional meaning to our possessions.
posted by Anonymous at 2:07 PM on June 20, 2015
I would really, strongly advocate against any parenting style that fosters this. My relationship with my brothers has always been contentious as a result and it only started getting somewhat repaired in my mid-20s. I would try to adopt whatever parenting style that communicates unconditional love, that life isn't fair and that's OK, and that toys and things are meant to be shared between everyone. It's important for kids to have their own special things, but I think my brothers and I would have been better off if we were forced to share and didn't attach so much emotional meaning to our possessions.
posted by Anonymous at 2:07 PM on June 20, 2015
Siblings fight. My brother and I (I'm 2.5 years older) got along briefly when we were both very young, then basically not at all till he was in his second half of college. We were just incredibly different people with nothing in common but parents. Would you get along with someone like that if you were forced to spend tons of time together? But once we were both a bit more independent (and he did some world-expanding) we ended up having a lot more to talk about and now we actually really enjoy hanging out.
My dad and his brother got along great as kids but then my uncle converted to a religion that encouraged you to ignore your non-believing family and the relationship really changed. They still talked, but nothing like it had been.
My mom and her brother never got along growing up and still really don't. Incredibly different people, and now that their parents have died, not much reason to talk to each other, so they don't.
Basically, childhood relationships between siblings are not at all indicative of long term relationships, and I don't think there's a lot you can do other than read their personalities and do your best. If one is an introvert and one is an extrovert and you always make one do what the other wants, they'll be resentful. If you're not consistent in applying age-based rules and punishment, they'll be resentful. If you play favourites, they'll be resentful. Something will always be unfair, but that's life. All you can do is try to be as fair and consistent as possible and tailor your parenting to each individual.
posted by olinerd at 3:37 PM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
My dad and his brother got along great as kids but then my uncle converted to a religion that encouraged you to ignore your non-believing family and the relationship really changed. They still talked, but nothing like it had been.
My mom and her brother never got along growing up and still really don't. Incredibly different people, and now that their parents have died, not much reason to talk to each other, so they don't.
Basically, childhood relationships between siblings are not at all indicative of long term relationships, and I don't think there's a lot you can do other than read their personalities and do your best. If one is an introvert and one is an extrovert and you always make one do what the other wants, they'll be resentful. If you're not consistent in applying age-based rules and punishment, they'll be resentful. If you play favourites, they'll be resentful. Something will always be unfair, but that's life. All you can do is try to be as fair and consistent as possible and tailor your parenting to each individual.
posted by olinerd at 3:37 PM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
My brother and I negotiated to keep things scrupulously fair. We knew we'd fight more otherwise but we'd hold to the rules we'd determined. So we had treaties on sofa usage, who picked the TV channel etc etc.
Lego, which was supposed to be communal, was actually divided up with blue and white blocks his and red and yellow mine. This way no one could hog the main blocks (Everything else was up for grabs). I still feel really awkward using Lego that isn't in my designated colour. I wonder if MIL had a similar experience growing up?
(we've also held firmly to the 'person who cuts up the treat picks their portion last' )
posted by kitten magic at 4:37 PM on June 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Lego, which was supposed to be communal, was actually divided up with blue and white blocks his and red and yellow mine. This way no one could hog the main blocks (Everything else was up for grabs). I still feel really awkward using Lego that isn't in my designated colour. I wonder if MIL had a similar experience growing up?
(we've also held firmly to the 'person who cuts up the treat picks their portion last' )
posted by kitten magic at 4:37 PM on June 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I grew up very close to my one sister. We also spent a LOT of time in our cousins' homes; they ranged from only children to large families. All of my experience leads me to the conclusion that your mother-in-law is a weirdo.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:54 AM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:54 AM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Our two are still little (4.5 and 1.5) but the two most important things I've done thus far are:
When I was pregnant, I never once said to Micropanda "Mommy is having a baby." It was always "We are getting a baby." And I still always refer to her as "our" baby. Micropanda really seems to have internalized this. He calls her our baby too.
The other thing, to echo Peanut_mcgillicuty, is several times a day to look the newborn in the eye and say loudly "Baby, you need to wait your turn. It is Big Sibling's turn for mommy right now." Definitely helps with the older sibling.
Our two scream and tussle over toys (how could they not, given their ages) but they really seem to adore each other, and as others have said, that is a wonderful thing to watch.
posted by telepanda at 11:05 AM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
When I was pregnant, I never once said to Micropanda "Mommy is having a baby." It was always "We are getting a baby." And I still always refer to her as "our" baby. Micropanda really seems to have internalized this. He calls her our baby too.
The other thing, to echo Peanut_mcgillicuty, is several times a day to look the newborn in the eye and say loudly "Baby, you need to wait your turn. It is Big Sibling's turn for mommy right now." Definitely helps with the older sibling.
Our two scream and tussle over toys (how could they not, given their ages) but they really seem to adore each other, and as others have said, that is a wonderful thing to watch.
posted by telepanda at 11:05 AM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Just be aware that there is going to be inherent UNFAIR when you are raising siblings. It was SO NOT FAIR that mine got to do things I DIDN'T GET TO DO, and sometimes, you won't believe it, but they BOSSED ME AROUND. And my mother understood -- she was the youngest of 6 -- and she told me that I couldn't change the fact that they were older, and that they could do things I couldn't do yet, but that they still had to be [reasonably] nice to me and eventually I'd probably end up doing things they didn't do. Which is what happened, and my siblings thought it was SO UNFAIR, SHE GOT PIANO LESSONS, etc.
posted by JanetLand at 11:14 AM on June 20, 2015 [8 favorites]