A Tour On Purse Strings
June 4, 2015 12:19 PM Subscribe
After years of scrimping and saving, we are contemplating a trip abroad in the fall. However, small budget means we have to figure out what to visit and how. Please help us figure out the last potential vacation overseas for the next decade or so!
In the past, we were fortunate enough to spend time in the United Kingdom. We would like to go back because there are places we have not visited (such as Wales, the Lake District, the Scottish Highlands), but because this is probably the last time we'll be able to afford a small trip abroad for decades, we are also torn by the idea of going to the Italian lake district (it looks gorgeous!), seeing the Roman ruins in Ravenna, maybe visiting Normandy (one of our grandfathers was in WWII and landed there after D-Day) and a few other spots in France. We've always thought Switzerland looked great, too, but it isn't cheap. Please note that while we would like to do all these things, we know with our budget it would be difficult to try to do them all.
A couple of problems: First, our budget is limited to roughly $5-6k.
This amount would include airfare (which we found is probably going to be around $2000), transportation, hotels, food. We are not partial to fancy accommodations. Any safe place with a clean bed will do and we always eat cheaply. We're concerned that the cost of train travel would
be expensive and eat up quite a bit of our budget, but we are not sure, so we're hoping those of you who live across the pond or have visited Europe frequently can provide insight on the cheapest way to travel.
On the plus side, we are comfortable driving in England and have done it in the past, so that's an option aside from trains. On the down side, we have never driven on the Continent and don't have a clue how comfortable it would be compared to British driving.
Second, we are a bit hesitant to travel through Italy and France on our own since we aren't fluent in either language and would prefer to find a travel company that offers mini-packages for people like us who don't want to stress out on vacation and would rather leave worrying about transportation to them.
Overall, though, we don't want to be jammed on a giant tour bus full of other tourists. Is anyone familiar with companies (US and European) that offer brief, fairly inexpensive packages to the Italian lake district/France/etc.?
It has taken us over five years to save up for this possible trip and future expenses probably will make doing so again much tougher, so any help that can be provided would be greatly appreciated!
In the past, we were fortunate enough to spend time in the United Kingdom. We would like to go back because there are places we have not visited (such as Wales, the Lake District, the Scottish Highlands), but because this is probably the last time we'll be able to afford a small trip abroad for decades, we are also torn by the idea of going to the Italian lake district (it looks gorgeous!), seeing the Roman ruins in Ravenna, maybe visiting Normandy (one of our grandfathers was in WWII and landed there after D-Day) and a few other spots in France. We've always thought Switzerland looked great, too, but it isn't cheap. Please note that while we would like to do all these things, we know with our budget it would be difficult to try to do them all.
A couple of problems: First, our budget is limited to roughly $5-6k.
This amount would include airfare (which we found is probably going to be around $2000), transportation, hotels, food. We are not partial to fancy accommodations. Any safe place with a clean bed will do and we always eat cheaply. We're concerned that the cost of train travel would
be expensive and eat up quite a bit of our budget, but we are not sure, so we're hoping those of you who live across the pond or have visited Europe frequently can provide insight on the cheapest way to travel.
On the plus side, we are comfortable driving in England and have done it in the past, so that's an option aside from trains. On the down side, we have never driven on the Continent and don't have a clue how comfortable it would be compared to British driving.
Second, we are a bit hesitant to travel through Italy and France on our own since we aren't fluent in either language and would prefer to find a travel company that offers mini-packages for people like us who don't want to stress out on vacation and would rather leave worrying about transportation to them.
Overall, though, we don't want to be jammed on a giant tour bus full of other tourists. Is anyone familiar with companies (US and European) that offer brief, fairly inexpensive packages to the Italian lake district/France/etc.?
It has taken us over five years to save up for this possible trip and future expenses probably will make doing so again much tougher, so any help that can be provided would be greatly appreciated!
Response by poster: Length of stay would have probably been helpful. The trip would probably run anywhere from 10 to 14 days. If we can only go so often, we obviously want to make it count. Inversely, our budget also gets in the way of how long we can afford to stay.
posted by Atreides at 12:30 PM on June 4, 2015
posted by Atreides at 12:30 PM on June 4, 2015
Second, we are a bit hesitant to travel through Italy and France on our own since we aren't fluent in either language and would prefer to find a travel company that offers mini-packages for people like us who don't want to stress out on vacation and would rather leave worrying about transportation to them.
I think this is a little timid to be honest. It's western Europe; there are very few places that attract tourists where English is not widely spoken. I personally would opt for a 4 or 5 day France and Italy Eurail Pass at a maximum cost of €480. You order from the US and can plan your itinerary and train times stateside to minimise travel stress. It's just such a scenic, easy way to travel if you pack a roller bag each.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:43 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think this is a little timid to be honest. It's western Europe; there are very few places that attract tourists where English is not widely spoken. I personally would opt for a 4 or 5 day France and Italy Eurail Pass at a maximum cost of €480. You order from the US and can plan your itinerary and train times stateside to minimise travel stress. It's just such a scenic, easy way to travel if you pack a roller bag each.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:43 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is "us" two adults? Is airfare $2000 each or for both of you? I think if you have $4000 for two people after airfare, you can have a very nice trip for 10-14 days. Even if you only have $2000 after airfare, you'll be fine.
Airfare: Be flexible on your dates and search often on several different sites to see how prices are trending.
Train tickets: Use a site like seat61.com to figure out roughly how much your tickets will cost if you buy them at least 30 days ahead and that will probably work out cheaper than a pass.
Lodging: AirBnB is worth a look.
posted by soelo at 1:01 PM on June 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Airfare: Be flexible on your dates and search often on several different sites to see how prices are trending.
Train tickets: Use a site like seat61.com to figure out roughly how much your tickets will cost if you buy them at least 30 days ahead and that will probably work out cheaper than a pass.
Lodging: AirBnB is worth a look.
posted by soelo at 1:01 PM on June 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for the comments so far! The travel includes two adults and the total airfare costs are about $2,000 or $1,000 per adult (if the prices we have found recently remain consistent.)
posted by Atreides at 1:05 PM on June 4, 2015
posted by Atreides at 1:05 PM on June 4, 2015
We used AirBnB in Prague and Austria recently with no problems, and I bet it would save you a bit on lodging. Also, having a place with a kitchen will help you save on food costs: instead of going to a cafe or restaurant for everything, you can pick up some basics (coffee/tea, eggs, bread, veggies, etc.) and make some meals yourself.
As DarlingBri says, I think you'll be fine in France language-wise (never been to Italy, so can't speak from personal experience). If you have a smartphone, you can use Duolingo (free) to brush up on your French before you go. There's also a Google Translate app that I found very helpful in Prague and Austria, but check your plan regarding international data.
Driving-wise, France drives on the right and that's all I know.
posted by Bunny Boneyology at 1:53 PM on June 4, 2015
As DarlingBri says, I think you'll be fine in France language-wise (never been to Italy, so can't speak from personal experience). If you have a smartphone, you can use Duolingo (free) to brush up on your French before you go. There's also a Google Translate app that I found very helpful in Prague and Austria, but check your plan regarding international data.
Driving-wise, France drives on the right and that's all I know.
posted by Bunny Boneyology at 1:53 PM on June 4, 2015
You really don't need to speak Italian or French to travel there, and people are so friendly. What about flying in to Paris, and out of Milan or Rome? And renting a car in between. You can do Eurail as well.
Mix between AirBnB and hotels. For a hint on finding the latter: they can be quite cheap, and still offer good value, if they are not too near the station.
One idea is:
fly into Paris, spend 2 -3 days there. Check Anthony Bourdain for ideas on how to enjoy Paris in few days.
Go to the south coast. Look at Nice for a couple of hours, but stay in Menton. Or even go directly to Ventimiglia. Cheaper, and in my view better.
From here, go to Modena or Bologna. Again, stay 2-3 days, and see as much as you want. Then go to Ravenna (1-2 nights stay), and from there to Venice.
You can stay the rest of the time, or the rest of your life in Venice, and fly out from there, or you can go a couple of days to Milan, which has an international hub and is a great city, and fly out from there.
Everywhere in France and Italy has enough culture and food and atmosphere to last a lifetime. You could stay 6 months in Menton, and still not get it all. And that is the least important town on this suggested route. By focusing on the above described cities, you get an important introduction to the birth of modern culture, a sense of contemporary European life, and you get opportunities for relaxing and (sun)-bathing.
Ravenna is in because you pointed to it, and you are right. It is an amazing site. But in a way, there are other places on the route that are as important and a lot more accessible, and maybe you should prioritize those.
posted by mumimor at 1:53 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mix between AirBnB and hotels. For a hint on finding the latter: they can be quite cheap, and still offer good value, if they are not too near the station.
One idea is:
fly into Paris, spend 2 -3 days there. Check Anthony Bourdain for ideas on how to enjoy Paris in few days.
Go to the south coast. Look at Nice for a couple of hours, but stay in Menton. Or even go directly to Ventimiglia. Cheaper, and in my view better.
From here, go to Modena or Bologna. Again, stay 2-3 days, and see as much as you want. Then go to Ravenna (1-2 nights stay), and from there to Venice.
You can stay the rest of the time, or the rest of your life in Venice, and fly out from there, or you can go a couple of days to Milan, which has an international hub and is a great city, and fly out from there.
Everywhere in France and Italy has enough culture and food and atmosphere to last a lifetime. You could stay 6 months in Menton, and still not get it all. And that is the least important town on this suggested route. By focusing on the above described cities, you get an important introduction to the birth of modern culture, a sense of contemporary European life, and you get opportunities for relaxing and (sun)-bathing.
Ravenna is in because you pointed to it, and you are right. It is an amazing site. But in a way, there are other places on the route that are as important and a lot more accessible, and maybe you should prioritize those.
posted by mumimor at 1:53 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Id choose the continent if I were you. At the moment the euro is almost equal to the dollar- making the UK a little pricer at the moment!
posted by catspajammies at 2:27 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by catspajammies at 2:27 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I went to France for the second time in March...specifically Paris. We did do a side trip to Normandy for the exact reason you want to. We are not tour bus people, but we wanted a quick easy trip up to Normandy so we did a one day trip. It was really fast, but we saw the major sites and got to see the French countryside from the comfort of a bus. No worries about driving, etc. As far as language...don't worry! I know minimal French. I'm talking hello, goodbye, thank you...this is more than enough. It's amazing how many Parisians speak English. Go where you want to go and don't let the language barrier plan your trip!
posted by fresh-rn at 2:42 PM on June 4, 2015
posted by fresh-rn at 2:42 PM on June 4, 2015
Seconding the recommendation to use AirBnB. We stayed in several cities in Portugal & Spain, and in Rome & Naples for prices ranging from $20/night for a private room to $100/night for a whole apartment for both of us. The $100/night was only because we booked it the night before and that was the only reply we got on such short notice, otherwise we always go for the cheapest option with good reviews.
The other advantage of AirBnB is that the host usually gives great advice on where to eat for cheap (if you ask) and other recommendations.
Message me if you don't have an AirBnB account and want a referral link with $25 credit.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 3:19 PM on June 4, 2015
The other advantage of AirBnB is that the host usually gives great advice on where to eat for cheap (if you ask) and other recommendations.
Message me if you don't have an AirBnB account and want a referral link with $25 credit.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 3:19 PM on June 4, 2015
You can use the afore-mentioned Seat61.com (which is incredibly detailed about any possible journey you might want to make by train and/or ferry in Europe and beyond). You can also use rome2rio.com to get an idea of rough costs, routes and times from any point to any other point. Loco2 is a great website for booking tickets in Western Europe, although you might prefer a Eurail pass for simplicity. Note that on many services you'll need to pay a booking fee anyway, so individual tickets can work out more cost-effective. Seat61 has all the detail you'll ever need on this.
Expatistan is a great resource for getting a rough idea of cost of living in a given city.
I would caution you against trying to do too much in one trip. Pick 2 to 3 cities/areas and spend 3-4 days in each, at least. I'll strongly second AirBnB - in most European cities (and quite a few smaller places) you'll be able to get a pretty decent private apartment for $40-60 a night and a palatial one for what a Holiday Inn or whatever will cost you.
I'd also say if you've already been to the UK I'd save the charms of the Highlands for another visit and see some of mainland Europe. Scotland's not going anywhere and the weather is extremely variable in the autumn (it can be glorious, but it's often cold and wet).
posted by Happy Dave at 3:21 PM on June 4, 2015
Expatistan is a great resource for getting a rough idea of cost of living in a given city.
I would caution you against trying to do too much in one trip. Pick 2 to 3 cities/areas and spend 3-4 days in each, at least. I'll strongly second AirBnB - in most European cities (and quite a few smaller places) you'll be able to get a pretty decent private apartment for $40-60 a night and a palatial one for what a Holiday Inn or whatever will cost you.
I'd also say if you've already been to the UK I'd save the charms of the Highlands for another visit and see some of mainland Europe. Scotland's not going anywhere and the weather is extremely variable in the autumn (it can be glorious, but it's often cold and wet).
posted by Happy Dave at 3:21 PM on June 4, 2015
Best answer: German girl and avid backpacker speaking here. You can definitely pull off a great trip to Europe on that budget and I'd be very happy to help!
TIME:
I recommend travelling in September. The weather in southern Europe will be beautiful and sightseeing more relaxed as the summer rush is over. I would not travel later than beginning of October or you risk having too much rain during your trip!
AIRFARE:
Try to save here and go through good travel sites such as hipmunkto find suitable options. Then go and search for even cheaper offers on the flight you have found there.
For a quick estimation I plopped in Kansas City to Paris for the first two weeks of September and have found flights for $2400 for both of you back and forth with little layover.
That leaves you with a budget of ~$3000.
TRAVEL
If I were you, I'd rent a car on continental Europe and drive myself. It is easy anywhere in Europe really, maybe except for curvy mountain raods but nothing an American driver cannot handle.
Other options like train or flights I would rule out due to price and inconvenience.
That also means you should probably stick to one "area" of Europe.
DURATION
The longer, the better, right? :)Okay, let's break your budget further down.
Renting a (small) car from let's say Paris airport for two weeks will ring it at ~$400. Leaves you with $2600.
Daily expenses (for both of you):
Sleeping: $60 for simple accomodations but not hostels
Food: $50 (including light / home-made breakfast and lunch, and non-fany eat-out dinner)
Activities: $40 (including gas)
____________
$150 a day
That makes a whooping 17 days of travel! :) Just to make sure you saty within your budget any maybe get to splurge a little bit, I would make this a 2 week vacation with a full 14 days in Euopre and 2 days in transit.
ITINERARY
There is of course a multitude of options! A good starting point might be buying a Lonely Planet guidebook which has tried and tested itineraries as a strating point (maybe this one?)
Please do not go through a tour operator! It is truly a waste of money. You can plan this yourself and is half the fun, believe me. There is so much material online!
I would do it like this:
* start reading on travel blogs and travel websites and look at itineraries from tours online
* start making a rough plan
* check the distances and driving times on google maps (very accurate!)
* try to create a coherent travel schedule for your two weeks
* find accomodations (airbnb is very populare here, everything else you will find on tripadvisor, booking.com or hostelworld.com)
* make a list of things you wanna see, do, eat at your destinations
From what you have written, I would do EITHER:
* Mediterranean coast from Nice to Grenada
* Paris, Normandy and Norther Spain, incl. Bilbao and San Sebastian
* Italy :)
Don't try to squeeze in two many things or you will spend too much time in the car and rush from one spot to the next. If you take the time to feel and smell ans taste Europe, you're really here. Try to not only go to cities but definitely plan a lot of country side stops. It will be lovely and much cheaper. And stay clear of Switzerlandm, it is INCREDIBLY expensive.
All that being said: if you've come up with a rough plan, I'd be happy to take a look and give you some more advice on what to leave in and what to take out. Just PM me :)
posted by Fallbala at 5:55 AM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
TIME:
I recommend travelling in September. The weather in southern Europe will be beautiful and sightseeing more relaxed as the summer rush is over. I would not travel later than beginning of October or you risk having too much rain during your trip!
AIRFARE:
Try to save here and go through good travel sites such as hipmunkto find suitable options. Then go and search for even cheaper offers on the flight you have found there.
For a quick estimation I plopped in Kansas City to Paris for the first two weeks of September and have found flights for $2400 for both of you back and forth with little layover.
That leaves you with a budget of ~$3000.
TRAVEL
If I were you, I'd rent a car on continental Europe and drive myself. It is easy anywhere in Europe really, maybe except for curvy mountain raods but nothing an American driver cannot handle.
Other options like train or flights I would rule out due to price and inconvenience.
That also means you should probably stick to one "area" of Europe.
DURATION
The longer, the better, right? :)Okay, let's break your budget further down.
Renting a (small) car from let's say Paris airport for two weeks will ring it at ~$400. Leaves you with $2600.
Daily expenses (for both of you):
Sleeping: $60 for simple accomodations but not hostels
Food: $50 (including light / home-made breakfast and lunch, and non-fany eat-out dinner)
Activities: $40 (including gas)
____________
$150 a day
That makes a whooping 17 days of travel! :) Just to make sure you saty within your budget any maybe get to splurge a little bit, I would make this a 2 week vacation with a full 14 days in Euopre and 2 days in transit.
ITINERARY
There is of course a multitude of options! A good starting point might be buying a Lonely Planet guidebook which has tried and tested itineraries as a strating point (maybe this one?)
Please do not go through a tour operator! It is truly a waste of money. You can plan this yourself and is half the fun, believe me. There is so much material online!
I would do it like this:
* start reading on travel blogs and travel websites and look at itineraries from tours online
* start making a rough plan
* check the distances and driving times on google maps (very accurate!)
* try to create a coherent travel schedule for your two weeks
* find accomodations (airbnb is very populare here, everything else you will find on tripadvisor, booking.com or hostelworld.com)
* make a list of things you wanna see, do, eat at your destinations
From what you have written, I would do EITHER:
* Mediterranean coast from Nice to Grenada
* Paris, Normandy and Norther Spain, incl. Bilbao and San Sebastian
* Italy :)
Don't try to squeeze in two many things or you will spend too much time in the car and rush from one spot to the next. If you take the time to feel and smell ans taste Europe, you're really here. Try to not only go to cities but definitely plan a lot of country side stops. It will be lovely and much cheaper. And stay clear of Switzerlandm, it is INCREDIBLY expensive.
All that being said: if you've come up with a rough plan, I'd be happy to take a look and give you some more advice on what to leave in and what to take out. Just PM me :)
posted by Fallbala at 5:55 AM on June 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Fallbala's advice is excellent. I would add a few general rules of thumb:
posted by fedward at 12:03 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
- There is roughly a $200 per person penalty for flying into Heathrow, compared to any other airport in Europe. So while I love London, I don't love flying into it. Paris is a great option, since for less than that $200 each you could have a side trip from Paris to London but then you'd also be visiting Paris.
- There's totally a tradeoff between the freedom of a car rental and the comfort of not driving on strange roads (and taking trains, planes, or coaches depending on where you are). This is a personal choice; either way to travel is great.
- The farther you get from a major, Western European city, the farther your dollars will go. Paris and Rome are more expensive than little villages are, the same way Washington and New York are more expensive than smaller cities and towns are.
- You can get by nearly anywhere with a smile, pointing at things, and making numbers with your fingers, says the guy who visited parts of Japan where nobody spoke a word of English. I wouldn't be afraid at all of a language barrier in Europe, where English is a common second language.
- AirBNB is totally worth it. We recently overlapped in Budapest and Vienna with some friends. We spent credit card points on 4-star hotels; they used AirBNB. They were just as happy as we were, and they had a kitchen for breakfast. After we left Vienna we splurged on a five star hotel in Prague that was indeed very nice, but totally wasn't worth the splurge in the end. But if we hadn't had the credit card points, we'd probably have done AirBNB too.
- Check your credit card points and maybe sign up for something like Chase Sapphire Preferred if you can find a good signup bonus (ours was something like 40K points if you spent a minimum of X dollars on the card for the first three months, and X was less than our regular monthly credit card expense anyway - easy peasy). Sapphire Preferred is one of a few cards with no foreign transaction fees and it has a bonus on both travel expenses (including cabs, car rentals, and gas stations, as long as they're coded right) and dining (again, depending on the merchant being coded right). The points add up to things like extra nights at your destination very easily. They can also be transferred to a number of frequent flyer or hotel loyalty programs at 1:1 rates (much better than most cards) which allows you to move points in order to take advantage of loyalty offers or to hit a threshold that breaks open an upgrade or free night or whatever.* * I'm not linking to anything here but you can search Google for those signup offers. We have no connection to Chase except for the fact we're happy customers. If you are interested but have trouble locating an offer, MeMail me and I can refer you to just such an offer without, I hope, running afoul of the rules here.
- In addition to aggregators like Hipmunk, follow Airfare Watchdog and Smarter Travel and their ilk. You can find sale fares and coding errors that are just waiting for you to pull the trigger. That trip to Budapest, Vienna, and Prague didn't happen because we were looking to go there: we knew we wanted a vacation and when Airfare Watchdog posted a $400 r/t fare, we jumped on it (although we played around and got an open jaw with return through Prague, which cost us more, but was worth not having to get back to Budapest to get home). And we would totally go back to Budapest and Vienna (but maybe not Prague, which is overrun with tourists to the extent it's hard to get away from them).
posted by fedward at 12:03 PM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I really wouldn't stress about the language thing, other than to learn maybe a couple dozen words of polite stock phrases that you could probably memorize on the flight over. In France at least, tons of people speak English, but it will go a long way if you just make the effort to give people a bonjour when you, say, walk into a store.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 2:20 PM on June 5, 2015
posted by strangely stunted trees at 2:20 PM on June 5, 2015
Best answer: Most of the bases have been covered already, but a few more transportation tips:
1) Look into the discount airlines (you can search them all at once here). You can find many flights for well under 100$, and for longer distances or crossing obstacles this is often much cheaper (and faster) than train travel. However, trains usually deliver you to the centre of the city, and if you plan well you can walk to your accomodations, whereas you'll need to pay for bus/metro/shuttle from the airport, so factor that in. And watch out for discount airlines that fly into weird/super-far airports instead of the one you might expect - google the three-letter airport code they give you. My rule of thumb: train is usually cheaper and more enjoyable for anything under ~4-6h train time, but beyond that I start trying to find cheap flights.
2) Being flexible about where you visit (how many places have cool things to see? so many!) will help a lot in cost-cutting (i.e. taking advantage of airline/train specials), although it makes the planning process harder. Spreadsheets keeping track of various options help.
3) For trains, find out when you should buy tickets online for the best discount, for each country. For most it's ~60-90 days, but for some there's no discount for buying tickets ahead, and for others you can only buy tickets a few weeks beforehand. Seat61, as mentioned, is a fantastic resource for this: both planning out the most economical routes, and general train travel tips.
4) Planning this out carefully, you can save a ton of money, but it all takes lots of time and mental energy so you'll have to decide where you fall on the tradeoff between saving time vs. money. You're also committed to the route you pick, so this may not work for some personalities (I prefer to have it sorted out in advance and kinda enjoy the challenge, but others prefer to pay more for more flexibility and/or less effort planning).
5) Most trains (and certainly airports) in Europe are very well-labelled and will be very easy for you to manage without speaking a word of the local language, and most tourism/transportation people will speak English anyway. Even on the confusingly-labelled Budapest train where the train conductor and nearby passengers spoke no english, we still found the right train and seat and got to the right destination without any problems. For France and Italy specifically, I travelled on the train alone from Venice to Nice transferring a bunch of times without too much stress, and I'm a unilingual scaredy-cat with social anxiety so if I can do it, anyone can.
6) Another tradeoff you'll have to decide for yourself is seeing more cities vs. saving money on transportation. My ideal is 2-3 nights per city because I get bored quickly, but others are happier with 4-7 days in a city or region, and that transportation cost savings can translate into a longer trip.
If you want a couple examples:
1) Last year in peak season I travelled the route Munich-Frankfurt-Amsterdam-Berlin-Budapest-Prague-Venice-Nice for well under 100$ per leg (510 CAD$ total, or 410 USD at the current exchange rate). Since I did mostly trains except one flight and a couple buses, I looked into eurail but it was much more expensive (~double what I paid?) since I didn't want to stay in one region and I'm a decrepit 26-or-over.
2) For my trip in June-July this year, my fairly firm, mostly already booked inter-city transportation estimate is about 400 Euro to get between Nice-Interlaken-Florence-Cinque Terre-Rome-Dubrovnik-Split-Lisbon-Lagos-Lisbon, mostly flying this time due to all the water- and mountain-crossing, plus some trains and a couple buses.
Note: both times I was/am flying into one city and home from another, which I'd highly recommend (look for something like "multi-destination" when searching, and it'll often be just as cheap or cheaper than regular round-trip tickets).
posted by randomnity at 3:31 PM on June 5, 2015
1) Look into the discount airlines (you can search them all at once here). You can find many flights for well under 100$, and for longer distances or crossing obstacles this is often much cheaper (and faster) than train travel. However, trains usually deliver you to the centre of the city, and if you plan well you can walk to your accomodations, whereas you'll need to pay for bus/metro/shuttle from the airport, so factor that in. And watch out for discount airlines that fly into weird/super-far airports instead of the one you might expect - google the three-letter airport code they give you. My rule of thumb: train is usually cheaper and more enjoyable for anything under ~4-6h train time, but beyond that I start trying to find cheap flights.
2) Being flexible about where you visit (how many places have cool things to see? so many!) will help a lot in cost-cutting (i.e. taking advantage of airline/train specials), although it makes the planning process harder. Spreadsheets keeping track of various options help.
3) For trains, find out when you should buy tickets online for the best discount, for each country. For most it's ~60-90 days, but for some there's no discount for buying tickets ahead, and for others you can only buy tickets a few weeks beforehand. Seat61, as mentioned, is a fantastic resource for this: both planning out the most economical routes, and general train travel tips.
4) Planning this out carefully, you can save a ton of money, but it all takes lots of time and mental energy so you'll have to decide where you fall on the tradeoff between saving time vs. money. You're also committed to the route you pick, so this may not work for some personalities (I prefer to have it sorted out in advance and kinda enjoy the challenge, but others prefer to pay more for more flexibility and/or less effort planning).
5) Most trains (and certainly airports) in Europe are very well-labelled and will be very easy for you to manage without speaking a word of the local language, and most tourism/transportation people will speak English anyway. Even on the confusingly-labelled Budapest train where the train conductor and nearby passengers spoke no english, we still found the right train and seat and got to the right destination without any problems. For France and Italy specifically, I travelled on the train alone from Venice to Nice transferring a bunch of times without too much stress, and I'm a unilingual scaredy-cat with social anxiety so if I can do it, anyone can.
6) Another tradeoff you'll have to decide for yourself is seeing more cities vs. saving money on transportation. My ideal is 2-3 nights per city because I get bored quickly, but others are happier with 4-7 days in a city or region, and that transportation cost savings can translate into a longer trip.
If you want a couple examples:
1) Last year in peak season I travelled the route Munich-Frankfurt-Amsterdam-Berlin-Budapest-Prague-Venice-Nice for well under 100$ per leg (510 CAD$ total, or 410 USD at the current exchange rate). Since I did mostly trains except one flight and a couple buses, I looked into eurail but it was much more expensive (~double what I paid?) since I didn't want to stay in one region and I'm a decrepit 26-or-over.
2) For my trip in June-July this year, my fairly firm, mostly already booked inter-city transportation estimate is about 400 Euro to get between Nice-Interlaken-Florence-Cinque Terre-Rome-Dubrovnik-Split-Lisbon-Lagos-Lisbon, mostly flying this time due to all the water- and mountain-crossing, plus some trains and a couple buses.
Note: both times I was/am flying into one city and home from another, which I'd highly recommend (look for something like "multi-destination" when searching, and it'll often be just as cheap or cheaper than regular round-trip tickets).
posted by randomnity at 3:31 PM on June 5, 2015
Forgot to mention one key thing: the discount flights are really only super-cheap if you can pack efficiently enough to fit into their (stringent) carryon requirements, because most airlines don't include any free checked bags and that cost cancels out the cheapness of the flight. So trains are probably better for people with more...average-sized luggage. But still, it's worth checking out the flights for longer distances, since the time saved might still be worth it.
posted by randomnity at 3:41 PM on June 5, 2015
posted by randomnity at 3:41 PM on June 5, 2015
You can of course price it out for what is most suitable for the two of you, but I would be very surprised if the cost of car rental, parking, insurance and petrol (about $10 a gallon) wasn't far in excess of 1st class rail passes. Note particularly that the cost of fuel in Italy is 25% more than the rest of Europe.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:18 PM on June 5, 2015
posted by DarlingBri at 7:18 PM on June 5, 2015
You can save and watch the price of itineraries over time on flights.google.com, although I don't think it looks for specials like some of the sites others have mentioned.
posted by 2 cats in the yard at 5:35 AM on June 6, 2015
posted by 2 cats in the yard at 5:35 AM on June 6, 2015
Response by poster: Thank you everyone for your contributions and advice!
posted by Atreides at 7:29 AM on June 15, 2015
posted by Atreides at 7:29 AM on June 15, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by something something at 12:24 PM on June 4, 2015