How to deal with a creepy, stalking customer?
June 4, 2015 9:19 AM Subscribe
There's a creepy regular who comes into my store and now I've found out he's possibly stalking a woman. What can I do?
Since I've started my job about 7 months ago this regular has come in multiple times a week for breakfast or lunch. He's known by name, we'll say Peter, and talks to all of the staff in my department. I didn't get a good vibe from him from the beginning so I try to steer clear when he comes around.
He flirts with the girls even though they're all 18-22 and he's probably 50. One of them, Jen, who is the department manager, is very much creeped out by him. He took her aside one day and said he had tickets to a concert and wanted to invite a girl he liked but didn't know how. She asked how he knew her and he said that she makes him food sometimes. From then on she was very standoffish with him and avoided him as best as possible. He complained to management, claiming that if she didn't start being more friendly to him he would take his business elsewhere. If only. He then proceeded to complain to all of the staff that he gets along with about her attitude. Nothing came from this, Jen obviously wasn't in trouble, but everybody just seemed to want to pretend it was business as usual. Including Jen, who now says hi to him but will no longer engage in conversation. She finds stuff to do in the back room when he comes in.
More recently an 18-year-old girl started and he was immediately taken by her. Jen thought it would be a good idea to say this girl is 17 if he asked, and that that might deter him. I'm not so sure that would make a difference. For all we know he might even enjoy that more.
Two of the staff that talks to Peter told me that he had offered to pay them to surveil his ex girlfriend who works in a pharmacy nearby. He wanted to know if she was talking to another guy that worked there. They both told me to keep it to myself and that they don't want to get involved. I was surprised by their nonchalance about this. They both said they considered accepting the money. I didn't ask too many questions, but I did say that it's creepy and probably illegal and if I found out they had done it, I would report them.
I considered going into the pharmacy and telling the manager what I know, but I'm worried for my own safety if this is somehow traced back to me by Peter.
I'm not sure what I should do about any of this. He's charming and friendly enough that the staff who isn't aware of his creepiness like him. Everyone else just pretends nothing's wrong. I don't think I would have any support if I were to report him. I might even get grief for causing trouble, especially since he didn't ask me personally to stalk his ex. However, I was just recently promoted to assistant manager of the department and I feel that it's my responsibility as a manager (and a decent human being) to say something. Please help.
Since I've started my job about 7 months ago this regular has come in multiple times a week for breakfast or lunch. He's known by name, we'll say Peter, and talks to all of the staff in my department. I didn't get a good vibe from him from the beginning so I try to steer clear when he comes around.
He flirts with the girls even though they're all 18-22 and he's probably 50. One of them, Jen, who is the department manager, is very much creeped out by him. He took her aside one day and said he had tickets to a concert and wanted to invite a girl he liked but didn't know how. She asked how he knew her and he said that she makes him food sometimes. From then on she was very standoffish with him and avoided him as best as possible. He complained to management, claiming that if she didn't start being more friendly to him he would take his business elsewhere. If only. He then proceeded to complain to all of the staff that he gets along with about her attitude. Nothing came from this, Jen obviously wasn't in trouble, but everybody just seemed to want to pretend it was business as usual. Including Jen, who now says hi to him but will no longer engage in conversation. She finds stuff to do in the back room when he comes in.
More recently an 18-year-old girl started and he was immediately taken by her. Jen thought it would be a good idea to say this girl is 17 if he asked, and that that might deter him. I'm not so sure that would make a difference. For all we know he might even enjoy that more.
Two of the staff that talks to Peter told me that he had offered to pay them to surveil his ex girlfriend who works in a pharmacy nearby. He wanted to know if she was talking to another guy that worked there. They both told me to keep it to myself and that they don't want to get involved. I was surprised by their nonchalance about this. They both said they considered accepting the money. I didn't ask too many questions, but I did say that it's creepy and probably illegal and if I found out they had done it, I would report them.
I considered going into the pharmacy and telling the manager what I know, but I'm worried for my own safety if this is somehow traced back to me by Peter.
I'm not sure what I should do about any of this. He's charming and friendly enough that the staff who isn't aware of his creepiness like him. Everyone else just pretends nothing's wrong. I don't think I would have any support if I were to report him. I might even get grief for causing trouble, especially since he didn't ask me personally to stalk his ex. However, I was just recently promoted to assistant manager of the department and I feel that it's my responsibility as a manager (and a decent human being) to say something. Please help.
Do you have the power to bar him from the store? Would a superior be willing to do so if asked? It's one customer, surely not a big deal to just bar them for being a creeper. It's private business, you have the right to refuse service to customers who you believe threaten the safety or wellbeing of your employees. Small photo behind the counter to tell the staff just like one would for a serial check-bouncer or shoplifter. Then if he comes back you call the cops/store security.
posted by Wretch729 at 9:28 AM on June 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Wretch729 at 9:28 AM on June 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Don't do anything. This is all none of your business. He hasn't done anything illegal that you have proof of, and being creepy is not a crime nor is it your responsibility to correct his creepiness.
posted by royalsong at 9:28 AM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by royalsong at 9:28 AM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think I'd collect the staff to discuss this and see if others have concerns, and also to make a plan of action, i.e. 1) make a written note of all inappropriate interactions/behaviors in a central log and 2) have strategies to keep the pleasant-but-professional boundaries in place, e.g. make sure no young female worker is left alone with him. I'd also suggest you register your general concerns with store management, at this point just to flag the customer as a potential problem. And lastly, I'd tip off the ex-girlfriend, because she may have grounds now to get a protection order if she wants one. (That in turn might get him out of the area if she gets, e.g., a 1000 foot distance restriction.)
There is nothing more you can do at this point beyond that than be sensible and watchful.
posted by bearwife at 9:30 AM on June 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
There is nothing more you can do at this point beyond that than be sensible and watchful.
posted by bearwife at 9:30 AM on June 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
Best answer: being creepy is not a crime nor is it your responsibility to correct his creepiness.
Sexually harassing women in their workplace and offering to pay people to stalk another woman in her workplace are probably crimes, yes.
I would definitely discuss this with the manager of your place, and I would absolutely tell the lady at the pharmacy.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:34 AM on June 4, 2015 [114 favorites]
Sexually harassing women in their workplace and offering to pay people to stalk another woman in her workplace are probably crimes, yes.
I would definitely discuss this with the manager of your place, and I would absolutely tell the lady at the pharmacy.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:34 AM on June 4, 2015 [114 favorites]
How much power does Jen have, because it sounds like she's be on board with getting this guy banned from the store, which IMO is the appropriate course of action, and one that I've taken repeatedly when I managed retail stores.
posted by griphus at 9:42 AM on June 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by griphus at 9:42 AM on June 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
poffin boffin is 110% correct.
Through high school and college I worked off and on in retail and I can attest to how quickly an assertive manager can solve a problem like this - if they walked up to him directly and told him that he was no longer welcome and to hit the road, I would bet you won't see him again. If he does show up after that, a quick call the police for trespassing will resolve the problem. No one should feel unsafe at work and he has no right to act this way and still be in your building.
posted by _DB_ at 9:43 AM on June 4, 2015 [35 favorites]
Through high school and college I worked off and on in retail and I can attest to how quickly an assertive manager can solve a problem like this - if they walked up to him directly and told him that he was no longer welcome and to hit the road, I would bet you won't see him again. If he does show up after that, a quick call the police for trespassing will resolve the problem. No one should feel unsafe at work and he has no right to act this way and still be in your building.
posted by _DB_ at 9:43 AM on June 4, 2015 [35 favorites]
Whether or not it's a crime (although it sounds like this guy is crossing the line), the store gets to set policies on what happens on their property. Warning employees and/or banning someone from the premises for inappropriate behavior is well within their rights.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on June 4, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on June 4, 2015 [19 favorites]
Agreed with Zombie Flanders. Being creepy isn't a protected class anywhere in the world. Businesses are allowed to ask anyone they want to leave, and your business should ask this guy to leave. He can go lurk around somewhere else.
posted by alms at 9:53 AM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by alms at 9:53 AM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've been stalked. It was terrifying. Part of what made my restraining order case so strong was a well documented collection of evidence. If you say something, that strengthens the pharmacist's position, as well as your restaurant's. He may be behaving like this in other places, as well.
I've had a good experience calling the non-emergency police line and saying, "Hey, I don't know if this is illegal or anything, but this behavior is making me really uncomfortable and I just wanted to report it." They can decide what the appropriate reaction is. At the very least, he may be banned from your store and/or the pharmacy. It's not ok for him to treat people like that.
I just want to reiterate what _DB_ said. No one should feel unsafe at work.
posted by chatongriffes at 9:54 AM on June 4, 2015 [25 favorites]
I've had a good experience calling the non-emergency police line and saying, "Hey, I don't know if this is illegal or anything, but this behavior is making me really uncomfortable and I just wanted to report it." They can decide what the appropriate reaction is. At the very least, he may be banned from your store and/or the pharmacy. It's not ok for him to treat people like that.
I just want to reiterate what _DB_ said. No one should feel unsafe at work.
posted by chatongriffes at 9:54 AM on June 4, 2015 [25 favorites]
This is all none of your business.
If this customer is making the employees the OP manages feel uncomfortable, then it certainly is the OP's business.
blackzinfandel, I would definitely call the pharmacy if you can, even if it's anonymously. As for the rest of it? Document what's going on, if nothing else. How often does he come in? Who does he talk to? Who leaves the floor to avoid having to deal with him? How long does he stay?
posted by KathrynT at 10:11 AM on June 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
If this customer is making the employees the OP manages feel uncomfortable, then it certainly is the OP's business.
blackzinfandel, I would definitely call the pharmacy if you can, even if it's anonymously. As for the rest of it? Document what's going on, if nothing else. How often does he come in? Who does he talk to? Who leaves the floor to avoid having to deal with him? How long does he stay?
posted by KathrynT at 10:11 AM on June 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
I totally understand your trepidation about reporting this. I had this problem when I was working in retail (though I was the stalker's target) and it took another coworker alerting my manager to the harassment for things to get fixed. I didn't know how to handle it on my own and the man stalking me was beginning to escalate his behavior. Had my coworker not stepped in, I would likely have been attacked on my way out of work eventually. If this man is willing to pay people to stalk an ex, he is capable of worse.
posted by Hermione Granger at 10:34 AM on June 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 10:34 AM on June 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
It would be really great if your co-workers reported the "watch my ex for money" behavior to the police. It might help her get a restraining order. She should also be told.
You are right that, as an assistant manager, you have a small amount of responsibility to at least report this. If the store management knows about this, and they do nothing, and then something really awful happens, you will all collectively have this on your consciences for the rest of your lives. If you need to feel a little more secure about bringing it up with higher-ups, you could always lean on the old legal liability chestnut (i.e., "we could be sued").
posted by amtho at 10:37 AM on June 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
You are right that, as an assistant manager, you have a small amount of responsibility to at least report this. If the store management knows about this, and they do nothing, and then something really awful happens, you will all collectively have this on your consciences for the rest of your lives. If you need to feel a little more secure about bringing it up with higher-ups, you could always lean on the old legal liability chestnut (i.e., "we could be sued").
posted by amtho at 10:37 AM on June 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
Your company has a duty to protect you from sexual harassment no matter who it's coming from in the workplace - a customer counts. If they won't ban this person, they are being negligent.
posted by decathexis at 10:54 AM on June 4, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by decathexis at 10:54 AM on June 4, 2015 [16 favorites]
nthing the suggestion to report him anonymously. Call the cops AND the pharmacy, please. Think if this were you, wouldn't you want to know? What an icky man.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 11:13 AM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 11:13 AM on June 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
> Two of the staff that talks to Peter told me that he had offered to pay them to surveil his ex girlfriend who works in a pharmacy nearby.
Good Lord. This guy sounds like a case study straight out of The Gift of Fear.
* Definitely alert the lady at the pharmacy, and/or the pharmacy management.
* Definitely bring it up to the management, and advise that this customer is making you feel unsafe and afraid in your job.
* In fact, if your workplace offers an employee handbook, you might want to look in there to see what, if anything, it advises employees about dealing with stalkers. And if it doesn't? Ask your boss where the section on "stalking" is.
* Until management gets off its duff and bans this guy from the store, record every incident you can of this guy coming in and creeping on people.
* And just because I'm paranoid, you might consider visiting the Stalking Resource Center website at www.victimsofcrime.org/src
posted by magstheaxe at 11:41 AM on June 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
Good Lord. This guy sounds like a case study straight out of The Gift of Fear.
* Definitely alert the lady at the pharmacy, and/or the pharmacy management.
* Definitely bring it up to the management, and advise that this customer is making you feel unsafe and afraid in your job.
* In fact, if your workplace offers an employee handbook, you might want to look in there to see what, if anything, it advises employees about dealing with stalkers. And if it doesn't? Ask your boss where the section on "stalking" is.
* Until management gets off its duff and bans this guy from the store, record every incident you can of this guy coming in and creeping on people.
* And just because I'm paranoid, you might consider visiting the Stalking Resource Center website at www.victimsofcrime.org/src
posted by magstheaxe at 11:41 AM on June 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
Warn all of your new coworkers, especially if they're women. He's a known creeper and they should not feel pressured to indulge him in any way. If the rest of the staff is somewhat casual about his gross behavior, a new employee could interpret that as an endorsement of this guy and they may not have their guard up.
Yes, tell the pharmacy ex. He may be soliciting your coworkers to act on his behalf because of a restraining order.
posted by quince at 11:57 AM on June 4, 2015 [10 favorites]
Yes, tell the pharmacy ex. He may be soliciting your coworkers to act on his behalf because of a restraining order.
posted by quince at 11:57 AM on June 4, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm not an HR lawyer or anything, but in my understanding, if you're a manager, you have certain responsibilities to your employees, and one of them is to provide a workplace free of sexual harassment. There's liability if you don't. So in telling your manager about your concerns, you might allude to that and/or the potential liability to the company. A good organization would have a whole policy about how they will do their utmost to keep their employees from being harassed by other staff, vendors, and clients. You guys night even have one that you can point to in explaining why you're planning to ban the guy (or whatever).
posted by salvia at 12:50 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by salvia at 12:50 PM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
And keep an eye on those two employees Mr. McCreepy offered money to spy on his alledged ex: none of you knows if she actually is his ex-girlfriend or just another female he's stalking; and your two employees are far too casual about helping a stranger stalk a woman when they don't actually know the truth, just whatever Mr. McCreepy has told them.
posted by easily confused at 12:58 PM on June 4, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 12:58 PM on June 4, 2015 [12 favorites]
If you are a woman (on preview, that doesn't appear to be the case) I might suggest having a male superior tell this particular man he's no longer welcome at your place of business. As annoying as it is to rely on a man to handle duties which you're capable of doing, you run the risk of attracting an established stalker if you stand up to this individual.
In this case, as someone in a manager role, I'd get rid of him the next time he's in the store while you're on duty, and ask for forgiveness rather than permission. You have plenty of employees ready to back you up on the managerial decision you made to protect your staff.
posted by theraflu at 2:04 PM on June 4, 2015
In this case, as someone in a manager role, I'd get rid of him the next time he's in the store while you're on duty, and ask for forgiveness rather than permission. You have plenty of employees ready to back you up on the managerial decision you made to protect your staff.
posted by theraflu at 2:04 PM on June 4, 2015
I would contact a family crisis shelter for additional advice. If I were the manager, I'd talk to each staff member about Peter. I'd go to the pharmacy, talk to the manager, identify and talk to the ex-gf. Based on ex-gf's discussion, I'd go to police or not.
It's okay to ask the staff out. politely, and with no repercussions. He's using his tiny power as a customer to be a jerk. Businesses need customers, but as a manager, I'd make it clear any customer that all staff deserve unfailing respect. Respect includes not involving them in weird shit. It doesn't have to be confrontational, but this is a sketchy situation, he's milking it, and somebody could actually get hurt.
posted by theora55 at 3:23 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's okay to ask the staff out. politely, and with no repercussions. He's using his tiny power as a customer to be a jerk. Businesses need customers, but as a manager, I'd make it clear any customer that all staff deserve unfailing respect. Respect includes not involving them in weird shit. It doesn't have to be confrontational, but this is a sketchy situation, he's milking it, and somebody could actually get hurt.
posted by theora55 at 3:23 PM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree with the others, the store should ban him in order to protect their staff. I used to work in a supermarket (a very large chain) and this is the course of action we took. I was harrassed by a customer in the course of my duties (he didn't like me following our bag checking policy) and as a 17 year old girl it was very empowering to me to have the store manager approach the customer after hearing my side of it and say "Sir, I'm asking you to leave the premises, your behaviour to our cashier is inappropriate and we are no longer willing to serve you". HA!
That was 20 years ago and I'm still a bit giddy to have had someone stand up for me like that and say that bad behaviour was not apropriate and we'd rather forgo your custom & money than condone it. It's too easy to treat retail staff as lesser beings than the customer.
Plus the whole surveillance thing is really disturbing. I would call the police (non-emergency line) about that for sure.
posted by kitten magic at 5:32 PM on June 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
That was 20 years ago and I'm still a bit giddy to have had someone stand up for me like that and say that bad behaviour was not apropriate and we'd rather forgo your custom & money than condone it. It's too easy to treat retail staff as lesser beings than the customer.
Plus the whole surveillance thing is really disturbing. I would call the police (non-emergency line) about that for sure.
posted by kitten magic at 5:32 PM on June 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
And keep an eye on those two employees Mr. McCreepy offered money to spy on his alledged ex: none of you knows if she actually is his ex-girlfriend or just another female he's stalking; and your two employees are far too casual about helping a stranger stalk a woman when they don't actually know the truth, just whatever Mr. McCreepy has told them.
The whole thing is disturbing but I think this bothers me the most. I mean, who the fuck would seriously consider doing this? The pharmacy person should be warned about this crap, for sure.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 5:41 PM on June 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
The whole thing is disturbing but I think this bothers me the most. I mean, who the fuck would seriously consider doing this? The pharmacy person should be warned about this crap, for sure.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 5:41 PM on June 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Many formal retail management training materials use this exact situation as an example. If upper management is made aware of this, does nothing, and then something happens (like he assaults her) it opens up a bunch of liability questions that your workplace and the pharmacy absolutely do not want to deal with. Please go to your manager about this, and frame it as concern about her and your safety.
posted by almostmanda at 7:01 AM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by almostmanda at 7:01 AM on June 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Librarian who has been in situations with creepy patrons and student work staff in the past here. Besides the suggestions bearwife made, a couple we found handy:
0) You don't need to make it explicitly about This Creepy Guy if you think that might be complicated: you can do "I was talking with friends about stuff that comes up with being a manager, and I think it'd be good if we talked explicitly about some ways to deal with customers who make staff uncomfortable. Hopefully we never need it, but if we do, everyone will know how to deal with it better."
1) Be really explicit about what they can do if someone makes them uncomfortable. (My usual line was "We do not pay you enough to deal with that: if someone makes you uncomfortable, come tell me or another person you're comfortable with. Make up whatever excuse with the patron you need to - a "Sorry, I need to check something." will work fine most of the time.") Giving them some brief sample scripts is really really helpful.
2) Work out a code they can use if someone's making them uncomfortable. Something like "X, can I hand over this transaction to you? I just realised I forgot to check something in the back room." Brief, not that obvious to the customer, but gets them to transfer the guy to someone he finds less interesting.
3) Talk about the fact that different people will have different reactions to customers, and that it's totally okay (as long as they're appropriate) to deal with the business part, and avoid extended conversations. Having someone around who can intercede, and say "Hey, Jen was perfectly appropriate, but she wasn't comfortable having a longer personal conversation with that customer, and we should support that." (becuase sometimes you can feel like the customer's going to misrepresent the conversation/etc. so knowing someone can confirm you weren't rude helps a lot in setting the boundary.)
posted by modernhypatia at 8:21 AM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
0) You don't need to make it explicitly about This Creepy Guy if you think that might be complicated: you can do "I was talking with friends about stuff that comes up with being a manager, and I think it'd be good if we talked explicitly about some ways to deal with customers who make staff uncomfortable. Hopefully we never need it, but if we do, everyone will know how to deal with it better."
1) Be really explicit about what they can do if someone makes them uncomfortable. (My usual line was "We do not pay you enough to deal with that: if someone makes you uncomfortable, come tell me or another person you're comfortable with. Make up whatever excuse with the patron you need to - a "Sorry, I need to check something." will work fine most of the time.") Giving them some brief sample scripts is really really helpful.
2) Work out a code they can use if someone's making them uncomfortable. Something like "X, can I hand over this transaction to you? I just realised I forgot to check something in the back room." Brief, not that obvious to the customer, but gets them to transfer the guy to someone he finds less interesting.
3) Talk about the fact that different people will have different reactions to customers, and that it's totally okay (as long as they're appropriate) to deal with the business part, and avoid extended conversations. Having someone around who can intercede, and say "Hey, Jen was perfectly appropriate, but she wasn't comfortable having a longer personal conversation with that customer, and we should support that." (becuase sometimes you can feel like the customer's going to misrepresent the conversation/etc. so knowing someone can confirm you weren't rude helps a lot in setting the boundary.)
posted by modernhypatia at 8:21 AM on June 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I considered going into the pharmacy and telling the manager what I know, but I'm worried for my own safety if this is somehow traced back to me by Peter.
Call and tell them anonymously.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:28 AM on June 4, 2015 [9 favorites]