How should I deal with a roommate's depression?
November 29, 2005 9:43 AM
My roommate is in a deep depression. What are my responsibilities?
"Frances" has only been our roomate for three months. In the last month, she's suffered an obvious decline in mood and activity and openly admits to being depressed. From what I can gather: She went through a bad break up two years ago and is still grieving the loss; she had some sort of health scare last year that really rattled her and set her back financially; her law school applications have all been rejected; and she's been going through what might be best characterized as an identity crisis (something about being unable to connect to her heritage and learn her native language). All while trying to make it in the Bay Area as an independant young women whilst her traditional, conservative family harangues her to return to SoCal to live with them. She hates her job and views herself as a failure.
The result: She's given up on her normal extracurricular activities (biking, running, and baking); she doesn't eat much; she stays in her room (asleep, presumably) most of the day; she bursts into tears in the common areas of our flat at awkward moments and seems generally inconsolable. Mostly I am worried about the staying in the room all the time with the lights off part--to me that's a sign that she's really not doing very well.
I've done my best to console and advise, but I don't really know her all that well. She is in therapy but not on meds as far as I can tell. Although I am wary of taking on the role of full-time shoulder to cry upon, I am genuinely concerned for her well being and I want to be able to help, particularly if that means getting her the kind of support she needs.
What would you do in this situation?
"Frances" has only been our roomate for three months. In the last month, she's suffered an obvious decline in mood and activity and openly admits to being depressed. From what I can gather: She went through a bad break up two years ago and is still grieving the loss; she had some sort of health scare last year that really rattled her and set her back financially; her law school applications have all been rejected; and she's been going through what might be best characterized as an identity crisis (something about being unable to connect to her heritage and learn her native language). All while trying to make it in the Bay Area as an independant young women whilst her traditional, conservative family harangues her to return to SoCal to live with them. She hates her job and views herself as a failure.
The result: She's given up on her normal extracurricular activities (biking, running, and baking); she doesn't eat much; she stays in her room (asleep, presumably) most of the day; she bursts into tears in the common areas of our flat at awkward moments and seems generally inconsolable. Mostly I am worried about the staying in the room all the time with the lights off part--to me that's a sign that she's really not doing very well.
I've done my best to console and advise, but I don't really know her all that well. She is in therapy but not on meds as far as I can tell. Although I am wary of taking on the role of full-time shoulder to cry upon, I am genuinely concerned for her well being and I want to be able to help, particularly if that means getting her the kind of support she needs.
What would you do in this situation?
Flagged jon_kill's post.
Missmobtown: I'd tell her exactly what you said in your second-to-last sentence: That you're genuinely concerned for her well-being, and want to help.
One route would be to (gently, playfully) force her to go out. Not partying, just OUT in the sense of out of her room, tho that could back-fire. Don't suggest any meds, tho. That's up to her physician and/or therapist to decide.
posted by slater at 9:52 AM on November 29, 2005
Missmobtown: I'd tell her exactly what you said in your second-to-last sentence: That you're genuinely concerned for her well-being, and want to help.
One route would be to (gently, playfully) force her to go out. Not partying, just OUT in the sense of out of her room, tho that could back-fire. Don't suggest any meds, tho. That's up to her physician and/or therapist to decide.
posted by slater at 9:52 AM on November 29, 2005
There is no reason to flag my post. It's a serious answer. If it gets erased, I won't know what to think of this place.
posted by jon_kill at 9:54 AM on November 29, 2005
posted by jon_kill at 9:54 AM on November 29, 2005
I agree with jon_kill: his advice was perfectly serious, if playfully expressed, and there's no reason to flag it. I'm not sure sex is the cure here, but it's been known to work wonders.
As for the basic question ("What are my responsibilities?"), I don't think you have any special responsibility just because she's your roommate. Be as helpful as you can, but her depression is basically her problem—it's hard enough for family members to take on that kind of burden, let alone complete strangers who happen to share a dwelling.
posted by languagehat at 10:05 AM on November 29, 2005
As for the basic question ("What are my responsibilities?"), I don't think you have any special responsibility just because she's your roommate. Be as helpful as you can, but her depression is basically her problem—it's hard enough for family members to take on that kind of burden, let alone complete strangers who happen to share a dwelling.
posted by languagehat at 10:05 AM on November 29, 2005
Invite her to do things with you--play a board game, bake (since you said she likes that) if you enjoy it, other light fun activities you normally do. Simple things like that can be helpful and will at least get her out of her room (and being "in her head") for a short time. It's not going to cure her depression, but that's not something you can do.
posted by needs more cowbell at 10:05 AM on November 29, 2005
posted by needs more cowbell at 10:05 AM on November 29, 2005
You don't have any responsibilities aside from normal roommate ones. Don't get into a situation where she thinks of you as a surrogate therapist. It's good that she's in therapy, and she should continue. I suppose you could try to tease out whether she's telling her therapist about the more dramatic outward aspects of her depression, like the sitting in the dark thing, but that might be too much prying.
posted by goatdog at 10:11 AM on November 29, 2005
posted by goatdog at 10:11 AM on November 29, 2005
I'm afraid you might have used the "flag" feature to editorialize a little bit, slater. I'm not sure how you flagged it, but I'm sure the absence of the appropriate "Disagree with advice/Inklings of repressed desires" entry caused a little cognitive dissonance for you. If you don't think sex is good advice for someone who is depressed, I feel kind of bad for you.
posted by jon_kill at 10:13 AM on November 29, 2005
posted by jon_kill at 10:13 AM on November 29, 2005
In case jon_kill's post does get removed, I'll second the spirit of his suggestion, if not his blase presentation.
If your room-mate feels like a failure, whether it's because of an ended relationship, a go-nowhere job or poor academic prospects, she needs to find something that makes her feel like a success. A fulfilling and exciting relationship may be just the ticket, assuming that a relationship that fits her criteria for fulfilling and exciting is possible.
That suggestion is a double-edged sword, of course - being rejected or otherwise unsuccessful on the romantic/sexual front can be depressing in it's own right.
Bottom line, she needs to take responsibility for her own mental health. You wanting to help won't mean squat unless she wants help and is willing to help herself as well.
Sit down with her, explain your worries and your desire to help (but try not to sound critical) and ask her first what she would like to see happen in order for her mood to improve. If she comes up with anything that would allow you to help, I'd recommend you offer to help at that point.
DON'T assume any responsibility for the outcome, however. You don't want her using your efforts as an excuse to neglect her own, and you don't want to catch any blame if her lot in life doesn't improve.
As for specific ways to help, well... People like to feel important and useful. Maybe try and help her look for a new job or even volunteer opportunities that will earn her some better recognition. Sounds like a baking, biking law-student wannabe could do a lot: bake for the poor, read to the blind, be a youth mentor/big-sister, or work a legal-aid clinic.
I hope it all works out for your roomie, rogering or no rogering.
posted by chudmonkey at 10:15 AM on November 29, 2005
If your room-mate feels like a failure, whether it's because of an ended relationship, a go-nowhere job or poor academic prospects, she needs to find something that makes her feel like a success. A fulfilling and exciting relationship may be just the ticket, assuming that a relationship that fits her criteria for fulfilling and exciting is possible.
That suggestion is a double-edged sword, of course - being rejected or otherwise unsuccessful on the romantic/sexual front can be depressing in it's own right.
Bottom line, she needs to take responsibility for her own mental health. You wanting to help won't mean squat unless she wants help and is willing to help herself as well.
Sit down with her, explain your worries and your desire to help (but try not to sound critical) and ask her first what she would like to see happen in order for her mood to improve. If she comes up with anything that would allow you to help, I'd recommend you offer to help at that point.
DON'T assume any responsibility for the outcome, however. You don't want her using your efforts as an excuse to neglect her own, and you don't want to catch any blame if her lot in life doesn't improve.
As for specific ways to help, well... People like to feel important and useful. Maybe try and help her look for a new job or even volunteer opportunities that will earn her some better recognition. Sounds like a baking, biking law-student wannabe could do a lot: bake for the poor, read to the blind, be a youth mentor/big-sister, or work a legal-aid clinic.
I hope it all works out for your roomie, rogering or no rogering.
posted by chudmonkey at 10:15 AM on November 29, 2005
Um, I tried to look up "brisk rogering" (I'm not a native speaker) and according to the results I got -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- you seem to suggest that she "just" "needs" "to get laid", jon_kill? And you consider this a serious answer? Are you quite mad?
On preview: I can't believe people are backing up jon_kill on this. "Frances" does currently not have a partner and is, in fact, still grieving the end of a past relationship, so to "arrange a brisk rogering" would mean that a severely depressed and insecure woman should have sex with a guy she barely knows? Am I not getting something here?
Other than that, I'm with slater. Let her know you care, try to get her involved. There's not a lot more you can do you; all the other stuff is the therapist's (and her) job. There will probably come a time when her misery will get on your and your flatmates' nerves, at least I'm assuming it will, in which case you probably shouldn't let that show too much. A depressed person can't "just light up a little" etc. etc. But you know that already.
Wish I could say more, but I'd be as helpless as you, missmobtown. Hope things work out for you guys.
posted by mumble at 10:38 AM on November 29, 2005
On preview: I can't believe people are backing up jon_kill on this. "Frances" does currently not have a partner and is, in fact, still grieving the end of a past relationship, so to "arrange a brisk rogering" would mean that a severely depressed and insecure woman should have sex with a guy she barely knows? Am I not getting something here?
Other than that, I'm with slater. Let her know you care, try to get her involved. There's not a lot more you can do you; all the other stuff is the therapist's (and her) job. There will probably come a time when her misery will get on your and your flatmates' nerves, at least I'm assuming it will, in which case you probably shouldn't let that show too much. A depressed person can't "just light up a little" etc. etc. But you know that already.
Wish I could say more, but I'd be as helpless as you, missmobtown. Hope things work out for you guys.
posted by mumble at 10:38 AM on November 29, 2005
depression is a disease of brain chemistry. symptoms include feeling sad. it's not something you can cure by an episode of feeling happy (sex, relationships, etc). for general education about depression for anyone, i'd recommend peter kramer's new book, "against depression". for your roommate, i'd recommend expressing your concern and offering to help her find resources as appropriate.
posted by judith at 10:39 AM on November 29, 2005
posted by judith at 10:39 AM on November 29, 2005
If you don't think sex is good advice for someone who is depressed, I feel kind of bad for you.
disclaimer: I did not see jon_kill's original (now-erased) post, but only his response quoted above. Speaking as someone who's dealt with depression for a major percentage of my life, I can tell you that sex is sometimes not only not good advice for depression, but can -- depending on circumstances -- actually contribute to it (via shame, loneliness, reinforcing certain issues of self-image, etc.). And lest anyone rush in to paint me with the repressed brush, I also say this as someone for whom sex has always been a great, vital part of my life -- it's also, in my many years of experience (with both mood disorders AND fucking), NOT a cure for deep clinical depression which is what missmobtown appears to be describing regarding her roommate.
Of course after 2 years after a breakup, it's helpful (to say the least) to get out into the dating world again and see what happens, and of course we've all had experiences where hooking up with someone new is a big help in finally getting over a previous relationship, but a general "getting laid will cure full-blown depression" equation just isn't so. (I think feeling generally good with oneself in the first place makes for the best sex, anyway.)
Back to missmobtown: I agree with you in terms of not wanting to become a full-time shoulder to cry on. It's not particularly fun for you, and it's not actually going to be a meaningful help in terms of really getting her past what's obviously a pretty serious depressive episode. It's good that she's in therapy, and I think an important role you can take on is making sure she continues to go. Don't nag, necessarily, but if she goes every Tuessday (for example), I'd take note if she doesn't seem to have been out of the house that day. If it comes down to it, you may want to offer to drive her (if applicable).
If you can find a non-confrontational way to bring up the issue of medication, ask her if she has considered antidepressants. Whether she's not on meds presently or she's been on meds for awhile and they're not working, encourage her to speak to her doctor about it. (And if she is on meds or goes on them in the future, try to make sure she doesn't discontinue them suddenly.)
Do, of course, remain friendly and, as much as you can, patient and gentle with her. Do try to include her in social activities (but don't press or nag if she declines, which could just make her feel more ashamed). If you think she's becoming suicidal, though, you may have to step in in a more active way -- calling a suicide hotline or her doctor directly, for example.
Good luck, and good on you for wanting to find a way to reach out to her.
posted by scody at 10:43 AM on November 29, 2005
disclaimer: I did not see jon_kill's original (now-erased) post, but only his response quoted above. Speaking as someone who's dealt with depression for a major percentage of my life, I can tell you that sex is sometimes not only not good advice for depression, but can -- depending on circumstances -- actually contribute to it (via shame, loneliness, reinforcing certain issues of self-image, etc.). And lest anyone rush in to paint me with the repressed brush, I also say this as someone for whom sex has always been a great, vital part of my life -- it's also, in my many years of experience (with both mood disorders AND fucking), NOT a cure for deep clinical depression which is what missmobtown appears to be describing regarding her roommate.
Of course after 2 years after a breakup, it's helpful (to say the least) to get out into the dating world again and see what happens, and of course we've all had experiences where hooking up with someone new is a big help in finally getting over a previous relationship, but a general "getting laid will cure full-blown depression" equation just isn't so. (I think feeling generally good with oneself in the first place makes for the best sex, anyway.)
Back to missmobtown: I agree with you in terms of not wanting to become a full-time shoulder to cry on. It's not particularly fun for you, and it's not actually going to be a meaningful help in terms of really getting her past what's obviously a pretty serious depressive episode. It's good that she's in therapy, and I think an important role you can take on is making sure she continues to go. Don't nag, necessarily, but if she goes every Tuessday (for example), I'd take note if she doesn't seem to have been out of the house that day. If it comes down to it, you may want to offer to drive her (if applicable).
If you can find a non-confrontational way to bring up the issue of medication, ask her if she has considered antidepressants. Whether she's not on meds presently or she's been on meds for awhile and they're not working, encourage her to speak to her doctor about it. (And if she is on meds or goes on them in the future, try to make sure she doesn't discontinue them suddenly.)
Do, of course, remain friendly and, as much as you can, patient and gentle with her. Do try to include her in social activities (but don't press or nag if she declines, which could just make her feel more ashamed). If you think she's becoming suicidal, though, you may have to step in in a more active way -- calling a suicide hotline or her doctor directly, for example.
Good luck, and good on you for wanting to find a way to reach out to her.
posted by scody at 10:43 AM on November 29, 2005
i really don't want to derail this even more, but:
If you don't think sex is good advice for someone who is depressed, I feel kind of bad for you.
If you're dealing with a seriously depressed person (and I'd say the OP is, in this case), trying to get him/her laid is akin to telling the depressed person not to feel blue, things will look better in the morning, etc.
posted by slater at 10:46 AM on November 29, 2005
If you don't think sex is good advice for someone who is depressed, I feel kind of bad for you.
If you're dealing with a seriously depressed person (and I'd say the OP is, in this case), trying to get him/her laid is akin to telling the depressed person not to feel blue, things will look better in the morning, etc.
posted by slater at 10:46 AM on November 29, 2005
depression is a disease of brain chemistry. symptoms include feeling sad. it's not something you can cure by an episode of feeling happy
Yeah, OK. And you just diagnosed this person with a disease based on a few sentences from her roommate? Have you ever considered the fact that she's just withdrawn from the world because a bunch of setbacks in a row have convinced her that she's a failure in every area life?
I'm all about treating mental illnesses as such, but you can't have it both ways: anyone who's sad is depressed, but anyone who's depressed isn't just sad?
posted by dagnyscott at 10:53 AM on November 29, 2005
Yeah, OK. And you just diagnosed this person with a disease based on a few sentences from her roommate? Have you ever considered the fact that she's just withdrawn from the world because a bunch of setbacks in a row have convinced her that she's a failure in every area life?
I'm all about treating mental illnesses as such, but you can't have it both ways: anyone who's sad is depressed, but anyone who's depressed isn't just sad?
posted by dagnyscott at 10:53 AM on November 29, 2005
i didn't diagnose this person at all. i was just responding to the general sense in the thread that "depression" = "needs to get laid".
i would suggest, however, that it sounds like the original poster is concerned about more than just setbacks and sadness, but in fact mental illness and her feelings that she doesn't have the skills to assist her roommate if in fact that is the issue.
posted by judith at 10:57 AM on November 29, 2005
i would suggest, however, that it sounds like the original poster is concerned about more than just setbacks and sadness, but in fact mental illness and her feelings that she doesn't have the skills to assist her roommate if in fact that is the issue.
posted by judith at 10:57 AM on November 29, 2005
what scody said.
and, jon_kill is a pig. and I don't know what to think anymore (not that I care that much) of apparently reasonable users who appreciate jon_kill's shameful, unconscionable macho shit.
posted by matteo at 11:00 AM on November 29, 2005
and, jon_kill is a pig. and I don't know what to think anymore (not that I care that much) of apparently reasonable users who appreciate jon_kill's shameful, unconscionable macho shit.
posted by matteo at 11:00 AM on November 29, 2005
she's just withdrawn from the world because a bunch of setbacks in a row have convinced her that she's a failure in every area life?
Um, that's actually a pretty good definition of depression.
posted by scody at 11:01 AM on November 29, 2005
Um, that's actually a pretty good definition of depression.
posted by scody at 11:01 AM on November 29, 2005
You say you don't know her all that well. Do you know if she has any other friends who are closer to her, or did she before she started withdrawing? Can you get in touch with them? I wouldn't suggest contacting her family, since they seem to be part of her problem. And if she's still carrying a torch for a two-years-dead relationship, I wouldn't suggest trying to hook her up (not that I'd suggest that in any case).
posted by Gator at 11:08 AM on November 29, 2005
posted by Gator at 11:08 AM on November 29, 2005
From personal experience and from interacting with others, I've found that one way of helping getting over feeling worthless is to volunteer in some capacity. It might be helping out the local animal rescue, habitat for humanity, or a local hospital.the key thing is that the work is appreciated and worthwhile. It also shows that there are others who have had it just as bad/worse, yet they continue to face the day and live life.
Maybe you could take a Saturday with your roommate to volunteer to help with a Toys for Tots program, or the Salvation Army, or something similar.
posted by forforf at 11:10 AM on November 29, 2005
Maybe you could take a Saturday with your roommate to volunteer to help with a Toys for Tots program, or the Salvation Army, or something similar.
posted by forforf at 11:10 AM on November 29, 2005
scody, that's a silly definition of depression. I can't imagine how you could possibly think anybody who imagines herself as a failure is depressed.
It's a non-issue, anyways, I suppose. Having been in this situation before, I think the asker has to make a choice. Either this roomate is just a roomate or she is your friend. If she's just a roomate, your responsibility ends at telling her your concerns and perhaps, being a bit more helpful. If she's a friend, then you should do everything in your power to make sure her problems are being solved. Not solve the problem--you won't be able to do that--but making sure she's on the right track. This might mean making her a part of your daily routine (e.g. eating dinner together), gathering her other friends and holding an "intervention", contacting her family, or, if it comes to it, becoming her "mother" and making sure she gets out of bed and doesn't spend the day in bed, checking up on her throughout the day, and discussing her future with her. (I've done the "mother" bit for a close friend and, be warned, it is exhausting.) Really though, if she's just a roomate, your best bet might be to begin sending out feelers for another roomate. This girl doesn't sound stable, financially or emotionally, and so probably won't be a good roomate.
posted by nixerman at 11:12 AM on November 29, 2005
It's a non-issue, anyways, I suppose. Having been in this situation before, I think the asker has to make a choice. Either this roomate is just a roomate or she is your friend. If she's just a roomate, your responsibility ends at telling her your concerns and perhaps, being a bit more helpful. If she's a friend, then you should do everything in your power to make sure her problems are being solved. Not solve the problem--you won't be able to do that--but making sure she's on the right track. This might mean making her a part of your daily routine (e.g. eating dinner together), gathering her other friends and holding an "intervention", contacting her family, or, if it comes to it, becoming her "mother" and making sure she gets out of bed and doesn't spend the day in bed, checking up on her throughout the day, and discussing her future with her. (I've done the "mother" bit for a close friend and, be warned, it is exhausting.) Really though, if she's just a roomate, your best bet might be to begin sending out feelers for another roomate. This girl doesn't sound stable, financially or emotionally, and so probably won't be a good roomate.
posted by nixerman at 11:12 AM on November 29, 2005
Once again mental illness is derided and belittled by seemingly intelligent people. I've flagged jon_kill too. Idiot. I've faced all sorts of "pull yourself together" crap over the years and, believe it or not, it's just not that simple. It's as retarded as saying "stop having the flu". There is a physical basis for depression and trust me a "brisk rogering" has got nothing of value to contribute to this girl's recovery.
Advice. Speak to her and tell her exactly how she is behaving. Assure her these are the symptoms of depression and do everything you can to assure her it's important to seek help and that if she does, things can be vastly improved very quickly. Initially medication will get her back on her feet and a good cognitive therapist will address her thinking and attitudes to life. Diet and exercise improvements at the same time could see her off medication in as little as 6-12 months and she can get back on with living a normal life with all it's ups and downs. And hopefully with a little more respect for the fragility of being human than someone like jon_kill.
posted by brautigan at 11:19 AM on November 29, 2005
Advice. Speak to her and tell her exactly how she is behaving. Assure her these are the symptoms of depression and do everything you can to assure her it's important to seek help and that if she does, things can be vastly improved very quickly. Initially medication will get her back on her feet and a good cognitive therapist will address her thinking and attitudes to life. Diet and exercise improvements at the same time could see her off medication in as little as 6-12 months and she can get back on with living a normal life with all it's ups and downs. And hopefully with a little more respect for the fragility of being human than someone like jon_kill.
posted by brautigan at 11:19 AM on November 29, 2005
#1: Assess her suicidality.
#2: Support her seeking therapy
#3: I echo everyone else. Behavior can change emotion. Get her doing stuff and her mood may improve.
The bottom line is you have no responcibilities to her other than what you give yourself.
posted by Infernarl at 11:22 AM on November 29, 2005
#2: Support her seeking therapy
#3: I echo everyone else. Behavior can change emotion. Get her doing stuff and her mood may improve.
The bottom line is you have no responcibilities to her other than what you give yourself.
posted by Infernarl at 11:22 AM on November 29, 2005
scody, that's a silly definition of depression. I can't imagine how you could possibly think anybody who imagines herself as a failure is depressed.
That's not what I said (or, rather, was quoting by dagnyscott) -- please read it again. The process of "withdrawing from the world" following "a bunch of setbacks in a row" leading to the belief that one is "a failure in every area of life" are all, taken together, clinically recognized symptoms of depression. If you think that definition is silly, you may want to take it up with the National Institute of Mental Health, the American Medical Association, etc.
posted by scody at 11:25 AM on November 29, 2005
That's not what I said (or, rather, was quoting by dagnyscott) -- please read it again. The process of "withdrawing from the world" following "a bunch of setbacks in a row" leading to the belief that one is "a failure in every area of life" are all, taken together, clinically recognized symptoms of depression. If you think that definition is silly, you may want to take it up with the National Institute of Mental Health, the American Medical Association, etc.
posted by scody at 11:25 AM on November 29, 2005
scody, your link also accurately describes anybody going through a tough time in their life. Sorry, but as a definition, it's stupid. missmobtown's roomate is indeed likely depressed, (as she's admitted to being depressed), but the extent of her depression is completely unknown. According to the asker, this behavior has only cropped up in the last month and I think "withdrawing from the world" should ideally take a bit longer.
(I'd also point out the people suggesting she may be suicidal for taking the same leap. I guess there's just something about AsMe that makes people assume the worst. It's still somewhat silly to leap to such conclusions and possibly worry the asker even more, IMO.)
The reaction to jon_kill's comment is overblown. I won't speak for him, but I certainly don't think he was seriously suggesting sex will cure her depression. People seem intent on taking this extreme interpretation in order to defend the sanctity of depression but it's a non-issue as far as the question is concerned. Assuming jon_kill simply meant putting her out there to meet new guys (the reasonable intepretation, I think), the advice is fine. I certainly wouldn't recommend it, and would advise the asker against it, but I can certainly see how, for some people, a "brisk rogering" could make them regain self-confidence and offer a pleasant distraction.
posted by nixerman at 11:37 AM on November 29, 2005
(I'd also point out the people suggesting she may be suicidal for taking the same leap. I guess there's just something about AsMe that makes people assume the worst. It's still somewhat silly to leap to such conclusions and possibly worry the asker even more, IMO.)
The reaction to jon_kill's comment is overblown. I won't speak for him, but I certainly don't think he was seriously suggesting sex will cure her depression. People seem intent on taking this extreme interpretation in order to defend the sanctity of depression but it's a non-issue as far as the question is concerned. Assuming jon_kill simply meant putting her out there to meet new guys (the reasonable intepretation, I think), the advice is fine. I certainly wouldn't recommend it, and would advise the asker against it, but I can certainly see how, for some people, a "brisk rogering" could make them regain self-confidence and offer a pleasant distraction.
posted by nixerman at 11:37 AM on November 29, 2005
Help her get back on a regular schedule. Have meals together so you know she is eating and don't let her sleep all day. Simple decisions are going to be impossible for her to make herself, deciding what to have for lunch could take her two hours and make her feel even worse in the end. Let her know that she doesn't have to fight her way out of the black pit of sadness by herself.
posted by idiotfactory at 11:40 AM on November 29, 2005
posted by idiotfactory at 11:40 AM on November 29, 2005
She should hit the gym, get in shape. Studies have shown that exercise can be almost as effective as drugs in curing depression. Exercise + drugs might be better.
posted by delmoi at 11:53 AM on November 29, 2005
posted by delmoi at 11:53 AM on November 29, 2005
Your roommate seems to be struggling with depression, yes, but without knowing her biochemical history, I would first assume that her depression is SITUATIONAL. In other words, it makes complete sense that, given the string of events in her life, she would be struggling. That is where talk therapy, with her therapist, will be most helpful to her. And where, you, as a caring acquaintance, are kind to support her in seeking help and to be concerned about her.
I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist. But I am someone who has suffered from genetic biochemical depression for a couple of decades and is pretty high-functioning thanks to the right meds and medical support. I also am an advocate for those suffering from depression and for mental health education.
I believe that there is a difference between situational and biochemical depression. Situational depression CAN affect your biochemistry, but your biochemistry is not CAUSING your depression. Your situation is. Sometimes, the rational response to a string of defeating events is to be depressed. That's it. It doesn't feel good. But it can occasionally be productive as long as the depressed person doesn't physically harm him/herself or others. You can learn from it, grow from it, and it is nothing to be ashamed of. I wouldn't advise rushing to always medicate it either.
I've experienced both biochemical and situational depression. My biochemical depression creates depression in my life no matter what my situation. I could have achieved my deepest heart's desire, at a point in my life where nothing is wrong situationally, and still feel depressed.
It isn't always so black and white about when and how to intervene in a depression with meds or anything else. I do believe that biochemistry, physical activity and self-talk/intellectual stimulation are connected. So, yes, if the person feeling depressed can find something to get them physically active or intellectually stimulated, these may help with the symptoms of depression.
Along with some of the advice above*, I would also recommend that you do your best to acknowledge that she is hurting without making her feel strange or "wrong" for feeling depressed. Let her know that, whenever she is ready, you'd be happy to go for a walk or a swim, rent a movie with her, or whatever. Normal roommate things.
*I would have to disagree with the "brisk rogering" only because it is too risky not knowing how emotionally fragile she is. Can physical pleasure help to alleviate depression? It can, sometimes. But it's complex and personal and can also make things emotionally worse depending upon the situation. As always, YMMV.
posted by jeanmari at 11:56 AM on November 29, 2005
I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist. But I am someone who has suffered from genetic biochemical depression for a couple of decades and is pretty high-functioning thanks to the right meds and medical support. I also am an advocate for those suffering from depression and for mental health education.
I believe that there is a difference between situational and biochemical depression. Situational depression CAN affect your biochemistry, but your biochemistry is not CAUSING your depression. Your situation is. Sometimes, the rational response to a string of defeating events is to be depressed. That's it. It doesn't feel good. But it can occasionally be productive as long as the depressed person doesn't physically harm him/herself or others. You can learn from it, grow from it, and it is nothing to be ashamed of. I wouldn't advise rushing to always medicate it either.
I've experienced both biochemical and situational depression. My biochemical depression creates depression in my life no matter what my situation. I could have achieved my deepest heart's desire, at a point in my life where nothing is wrong situationally, and still feel depressed.
It isn't always so black and white about when and how to intervene in a depression with meds or anything else. I do believe that biochemistry, physical activity and self-talk/intellectual stimulation are connected. So, yes, if the person feeling depressed can find something to get them physically active or intellectually stimulated, these may help with the symptoms of depression.
Along with some of the advice above*, I would also recommend that you do your best to acknowledge that she is hurting without making her feel strange or "wrong" for feeling depressed. Let her know that, whenever she is ready, you'd be happy to go for a walk or a swim, rent a movie with her, or whatever. Normal roommate things.
*I would have to disagree with the "brisk rogering" only because it is too risky not knowing how emotionally fragile she is. Can physical pleasure help to alleviate depression? It can, sometimes. But it's complex and personal and can also make things emotionally worse depending upon the situation. As always, YMMV.
posted by jeanmari at 11:56 AM on November 29, 2005
what scody said.
and, jon_kill is a pig. and I don't know what to think anymore (not that I care that much) of apparently reasonable users who appreciate jon_kill's shameful, unconscionable macho shit.
Agreed. She just needs a good fuck? Unhelpful at best, and condescending beyond words. I agree with the flag and the callout.
posted by jokeefe at 11:58 AM on November 29, 2005
and, jon_kill is a pig. and I don't know what to think anymore (not that I care that much) of apparently reasonable users who appreciate jon_kill's shameful, unconscionable macho shit.
Agreed. She just needs a good fuck? Unhelpful at best, and condescending beyond words. I agree with the flag and the callout.
posted by jokeefe at 11:58 AM on November 29, 2005
Can physical pleasure help to alleviate depression? It can, sometimes
Then better to send her for exercise and a massage. Sex is a leedle bit more complicated than some simple exchange of pleasure; and that's assuming she could even take pleasure in something casual. Lots of us can't.
posted by jokeefe at 12:01 PM on November 29, 2005
Then better to send her for exercise and a massage. Sex is a leedle bit more complicated than some simple exchange of pleasure; and that's assuming she could even take pleasure in something casual. Lots of us can't.
posted by jokeefe at 12:01 PM on November 29, 2005
nixerman: scody, your link also accurately describes anybody going through a tough time in their life. Sorry, but as a definition, it's stupid.
Nope again. The clinical definition of depression specifically recognizes it as a longer, ongoing process distinct from the the normal ups & downs of tough times in one's life. To wit: "Depression is more than just the normal, temporary feelings of sadness and hopelessness associated with difficult life events." (scroll down to first sentence beneath the subheading "What are the symptoms?")
the extent of her depression is completely unknown.
To quote missmobtown: "She's given up on her normal extracurricular activities (biking, running, and baking); she doesn't eat much; she stays in her room (asleep, presumably) most of the day; she bursts into tears in the common areas of our flat at awkward moments and seems generally inconsolable. Mostly I am worried about the staying in the room all the time with the lights off [...]"
All of these -- giving up activities, not eating, sleeping excessively, spontaneously bursting into tears -- are medically recognized symptoms of a serious depressive episode (whether situational or biochemical, as jeanmari notes above). Again, if you think that's just "stupid," then please do share your clinical insights with the appropriate medical bodies so that they can improve standards of diagnosis and treatment.
On preview: jokeefe (and others) are spot-on about encouraging exercise and massage. Both are great, healthy ways to encourage feeling good both mentally and physically, as well as to get the ol' endorphins flowing a little. Missmobtown, what if you offer to treat her to a massage as a holiday present?
posted by scody at 12:10 PM on November 29, 2005
Nope again. The clinical definition of depression specifically recognizes it as a longer, ongoing process distinct from the the normal ups & downs of tough times in one's life. To wit: "Depression is more than just the normal, temporary feelings of sadness and hopelessness associated with difficult life events." (scroll down to first sentence beneath the subheading "What are the symptoms?")
the extent of her depression is completely unknown.
To quote missmobtown: "She's given up on her normal extracurricular activities (biking, running, and baking); she doesn't eat much; she stays in her room (asleep, presumably) most of the day; she bursts into tears in the common areas of our flat at awkward moments and seems generally inconsolable. Mostly I am worried about the staying in the room all the time with the lights off [...]"
All of these -- giving up activities, not eating, sleeping excessively, spontaneously bursting into tears -- are medically recognized symptoms of a serious depressive episode (whether situational or biochemical, as jeanmari notes above). Again, if you think that's just "stupid," then please do share your clinical insights with the appropriate medical bodies so that they can improve standards of diagnosis and treatment.
On preview: jokeefe (and others) are spot-on about encouraging exercise and massage. Both are great, healthy ways to encourage feeling good both mentally and physically, as well as to get the ol' endorphins flowing a little. Missmobtown, what if you offer to treat her to a massage as a holiday present?
posted by scody at 12:10 PM on November 29, 2005
What is your responsibility? It sounds like she is more room mate than dear friend. It also sounds like she may not have many friends to rely on where you live. I think you bear some responsibility for trying to help her. She is another human being in great need, and you may be one of the few able to help. Nevertheless, given that she is already in therapy I am not sure what real concrete things you can do other than to be supportive of her, and try to coax her out of her room for just general hanging out sessions, watching tv, whatever. Try not to let her sit and stew in her self pity. It gets real comfortable in there and very hard to climb out of.
posted by caddis at 12:16 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by caddis at 12:16 PM on November 29, 2005
What would I do? I would invite her out to do something fun, low-key, and not involving alcohol or the opposite sex. Something benign, like bowling or miniature golf. Then I'd try to see to it that she had some fun. And if she wanted to talk, I'd listen.
I'd do as much for any friend.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:31 PM on November 29, 2005
I'd do as much for any friend.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:31 PM on November 29, 2005
It seems to me that your roomate has had a long streak of bad luck, bad circumstances, and bad timing. If this is the case, I have had a similar experience, and was in a funk for about 3 months. My mother was seriously concerned about me, but I don't think Prozac or a psychiatrist would have done me any good. I just needed to have a Come To Jesus meeting with myself, and give myself several swift kicks in the ass. This is a case of situational depression as jeanmari pointed out.
On the other hand, my ex-girlfriend was depressed for no apparent reason. Excercise, board games, and sunshine wouldn't do any good. She needed and is still on medication that has worked wonders.
If your roomate falls into the former category, sometimes a good 'Get Off Your Ass!' pep-talk can work wonders if presented in the right tone. If she falls into the latter, I would leave that to a professional.
As an aside, if this question refered to a male roomate, would anyone have flagged jon_kill's comment or disagreed with it?
posted by jasondigitized at 12:36 PM on November 29, 2005
On the other hand, my ex-girlfriend was depressed for no apparent reason. Excercise, board games, and sunshine wouldn't do any good. She needed and is still on medication that has worked wonders.
If your roomate falls into the former category, sometimes a good 'Get Off Your Ass!' pep-talk can work wonders if presented in the right tone. If she falls into the latter, I would leave that to a professional.
As an aside, if this question refered to a male roomate, would anyone have flagged jon_kill's comment or disagreed with it?
posted by jasondigitized at 12:36 PM on November 29, 2005
Massage, pedicures, manicures...any kind of emotionally-safe physical touch that is soothing or pleasing can stimulate endorphins. Swimming or baths can help with this too, because of the pleasant physical sensation of water on the body. I purposely use scented candles, certain types of music, and sensory "cues" to help me manage through my depressive episodes.
Accomplishing little things successfully can help. Maybe invite her to sit in the kitchen and talk while you make soup or bake cookies. Ask her if she will sit and cut up/mix some of the ingredients for you. If you/she celebrate the holidays, decorate the apartment with some pine boughs. Make some spiced cider. Invite her to paint some cards with you or make some snowflakes for the windows of the apartment. Small, easy, non-emotionally charge, tangible, physical projects. Things that allow her to get out of her "head" and into her hands for awhile, if that makes any sense.
posted by jeanmari at 12:37 PM on November 29, 2005
Accomplishing little things successfully can help. Maybe invite her to sit in the kitchen and talk while you make soup or bake cookies. Ask her if she will sit and cut up/mix some of the ingredients for you. If you/she celebrate the holidays, decorate the apartment with some pine boughs. Make some spiced cider. Invite her to paint some cards with you or make some snowflakes for the windows of the apartment. Small, easy, non-emotionally charge, tangible, physical projects. Things that allow her to get out of her "head" and into her hands for awhile, if that makes any sense.
posted by jeanmari at 12:37 PM on November 29, 2005
As an aside, if this question refered to a male roomate, would anyone have flagged jon_kill's comment or disagreed with it?
Absolutely. It was witless.
posted by jokeefe at 12:51 PM on November 29, 2005
Absolutely. It was witless.
posted by jokeefe at 12:51 PM on November 29, 2005
Give her some responsibility: for a pet, for a project, whatever. Something she can focus on -- other than what's troubling her -- and do a decent job at. Let her have a responsibility for something other than herself and some success at it. Success feeds on success.
posted by orthogonality at 12:55 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by orthogonality at 12:55 PM on November 29, 2005
jasondigitized: As an aside, if this question refered to a male roomate, would anyone have flagged jon_kill's comment or disagreed with it?
I gave this some thought and have come to the conclusion that, yes, I would have very much disagreed with his comment no matter which gender he would have refered to. It is a tasteless, rude and amazingly unhelpful remark, period.
However, I have flagged maybe three or four comments all in all in my (relatively short) time at MeFi, including this one, so it's not something I do lightly. Mostly I don't care. But this comment offended me personally, and it probably wouldn't have had the exact same effect on me if the roommate had been male, so I'm not sure about the flagging. Probably yes, though.
posted by mumble at 1:10 PM on November 29, 2005
I gave this some thought and have come to the conclusion that, yes, I would have very much disagreed with his comment no matter which gender he would have refered to. It is a tasteless, rude and amazingly unhelpful remark, period.
However, I have flagged maybe three or four comments all in all in my (relatively short) time at MeFi, including this one, so it's not something I do lightly. Mostly I don't care. But this comment offended me personally, and it probably wouldn't have had the exact same effect on me if the roommate had been male, so I'm not sure about the flagging. Probably yes, though.
posted by mumble at 1:10 PM on November 29, 2005
Have you considered buying her a good multi-vitamin supplement?
Seriously.
Or maybe not...
jason: that advice is not stupid because it refers to a girl, it's stupid because it was obviously meant to be so and because it trivialises the situation of this roommate of missmobtown.
Read the description. It's not exactly someone only having a bad day or feeling a bit lonely and bored and just waiting for some diversions.
Regaining some basic enjoyment for food and fresh air and taking care of oneself and talking to other people would be the first steps here. I don't see being dragged out by her flatmate in pursuit of a shag or an arranged date, or whatever it was that people were thinking of, would have a lot of success, nevermind the style and tact of it. The get-laid advice would actually be even more inane for a male in the exact same conditions.
posted by funambulist at 1:14 PM on November 29, 2005
Seriously.
Or maybe not...
jason: that advice is not stupid because it refers to a girl, it's stupid because it was obviously meant to be so and because it trivialises the situation of this roommate of missmobtown.
Read the description. It's not exactly someone only having a bad day or feeling a bit lonely and bored and just waiting for some diversions.
Regaining some basic enjoyment for food and fresh air and taking care of oneself and talking to other people would be the first steps here. I don't see being dragged out by her flatmate in pursuit of a shag or an arranged date, or whatever it was that people were thinking of, would have a lot of success, nevermind the style and tact of it. The get-laid advice would actually be even more inane for a male in the exact same conditions.
posted by funambulist at 1:14 PM on November 29, 2005
Your own quote disproves what you are trying to say, scody -- it seems to me that there's no reason for us to assume that her behaviors are not a result of "difficult life events".
Sure, some people have gone through breakups, difficult family situations, and lack of career success with more dignity than the roommate here, but there's a difference between being emotionally sensitive/vulnerable and mentally ill.
Depression is caused by chemicals in your brain, it is a genetically inherited disease. It's not a something you catch when your boyfriend breaks up with you. None of us here are psychiatrists, and if we were, we'd say we don't know enough to make a diagnosis.
posted by dagnyscott at 1:23 PM on November 29, 2005
Sure, some people have gone through breakups, difficult family situations, and lack of career success with more dignity than the roommate here, but there's a difference between being emotionally sensitive/vulnerable and mentally ill.
Depression is caused by chemicals in your brain, it is a genetically inherited disease. It's not a something you catch when your boyfriend breaks up with you. None of us here are psychiatrists, and if we were, we'd say we don't know enough to make a diagnosis.
posted by dagnyscott at 1:23 PM on November 29, 2005
dagnyscott, just to do you a favour, I vote everyone accepts your strictly biological definition of depression and rename the state of mind of the roommate "zorkonked" rather than "depressed". Ok? Everyone agree?
Whatever it's called, she still has to face it and needs to get better because it doesn't soundlike being zorkonked is a lot of fun, whatever "caused" it.
By the way, seen as she's in therapy, missmobtown, has she said anything about that, is she still going? is she just going along to sessions but has given up thinking it'll help? is she thinking of quitting or changing therapist? I don't know how or if I would ask her these questions, as it's a very private thing, but I'd be concerned about that too.
posted by funambulist at 1:37 PM on November 29, 2005
Whatever it's called, she still has to face it and needs to get better because it doesn't soundlike being zorkonked is a lot of fun, whatever "caused" it.
By the way, seen as she's in therapy, missmobtown, has she said anything about that, is she still going? is she just going along to sessions but has given up thinking it'll help? is she thinking of quitting or changing therapist? I don't know how or if I would ask her these questions, as it's a very private thing, but I'd be concerned about that too.
posted by funambulist at 1:37 PM on November 29, 2005
The reaction to jon_kill's comment is overblown.
Yeah, definitely. It may not be good advice in the situation (that's impossible to tell without knowing more about the roommate); if she's clinically depressed, sex isn't the answer. If she's just down in the dumps, it might help. And yes, I've known actual women who cheered up remarkably after getting laid. Those of you who are horrified (not talking about scody or anyone who confined their criticism to the clinically-depressed possibility) are projecting or oversensitive. At any rate, the comment was well meant if badly put and doesn't deserve deletion; if all comments that don't turn out to be the best possible answers get deleted, this is going to be a mighty empty place.
posted by languagehat at 1:49 PM on November 29, 2005
Yeah, definitely. It may not be good advice in the situation (that's impossible to tell without knowing more about the roommate); if she's clinically depressed, sex isn't the answer. If she's just down in the dumps, it might help. And yes, I've known actual women who cheered up remarkably after getting laid. Those of you who are horrified (not talking about scody or anyone who confined their criticism to the clinically-depressed possibility) are projecting or oversensitive. At any rate, the comment was well meant if badly put and doesn't deserve deletion; if all comments that don't turn out to be the best possible answers get deleted, this is going to be a mighty empty place.
posted by languagehat at 1:49 PM on November 29, 2005
Depression is caused by chemicals in your brain, it is a genetically inherited disease.
For some people, yes, it is indeed this simple a matter. For many others, however, it can be a complex physiological response to external events. Again, as jeanmari pointed out so clearly, there is situational depression and biochemical depression. Both are recognized as forms of clinical depression by the medical establishment.
It's not a something you catch when your boyfriend breaks up with you.
Leaving aside the flippant, dismissive tone of this remark, I would point you to this statement on the causes of depression (via the National Institute of Mental Health), which says in part:
"...a serious loss, difficult relationship, financial problem, or any stressful (unwelcome or even desired) change in life patterns can trigger a depressive episode. Very often, a combination of genetic, psychological, and environmental factors is involved in the onset of a depressive disorder."
posted by scody at 1:55 PM on November 29, 2005
For some people, yes, it is indeed this simple a matter. For many others, however, it can be a complex physiological response to external events. Again, as jeanmari pointed out so clearly, there is situational depression and biochemical depression. Both are recognized as forms of clinical depression by the medical establishment.
It's not a something you catch when your boyfriend breaks up with you.
Leaving aside the flippant, dismissive tone of this remark, I would point you to this statement on the causes of depression (via the National Institute of Mental Health), which says in part:
"...a serious loss, difficult relationship, financial problem, or any stressful (unwelcome or even desired) change in life patterns can trigger a depressive episode. Very often, a combination of genetic, psychological, and environmental factors is involved in the onset of a depressive disorder."
posted by scody at 1:55 PM on November 29, 2005
When I was in a deep depression, I'd kill for someone to show me that they cared. While she's (just?) your roommate, if you have sympathy and want really want to help, as others have said, try to engage her in activities; exercise, walking, watching a DVD, going out to eat/the movies. Basically get her out of her room and out of her head for a while.
And if she starts to confide you, encourage her to continue her therapy (and perhaps medication?). Though don't, as my friend of 8 years did, suddenly pull away by basically saying, damn lychee, you're a real bummer. Not a good thing to hear when you feel like a total failure. So if you gain her trust, don't drop her like a hot potato if you feel overwhelmed--just make sure she's got other outlets (her therapist).
posted by lychee at 2:17 PM on November 29, 2005
And if she starts to confide you, encourage her to continue her therapy (and perhaps medication?). Though don't, as my friend of 8 years did, suddenly pull away by basically saying, damn lychee, you're a real bummer. Not a good thing to hear when you feel like a total failure. So if you gain her trust, don't drop her like a hot potato if you feel overwhelmed--just make sure she's got other outlets (her therapist).
posted by lychee at 2:17 PM on November 29, 2005
Well, languagehat, I have never known a woman or man who did not cheer up remarkably after getting laid!
The thing here is what kind of state the roommate is in to start with, based on how missmobtown is describing it (regardless of how it can be labelled and according to whose standards of definition), and what missmobtown can do to help her.
Now, assuming there could be a possibility that the roommate would be likely to go straight from being locked in curtains drawn not feeling like eating or getting out the door at all, to having revitalising sexual encounters, how do we picture missmobtown going about "arranging" that for her? That's what was suggested. Arrange how?
I'm not horrified, just totally puzzled that anyone took that comment seriously.
posted by funambulist at 2:24 PM on November 29, 2005
The thing here is what kind of state the roommate is in to start with, based on how missmobtown is describing it (regardless of how it can be labelled and according to whose standards of definition), and what missmobtown can do to help her.
Now, assuming there could be a possibility that the roommate would be likely to go straight from being locked in curtains drawn not feeling like eating or getting out the door at all, to having revitalising sexual encounters, how do we picture missmobtown going about "arranging" that for her? That's what was suggested. Arrange how?
I'm not horrified, just totally puzzled that anyone took that comment seriously.
posted by funambulist at 2:24 PM on November 29, 2005
languagehat: Those of you who are horrified (not talking about scody or anyone who confined their criticism to the clinically-depressed possibility) are projecting or oversensitive.
*raises hand* Oversensitive, probably. Projecting ... I'm not sure what you mean by that.
However, I still have to disagree with you. Let's not talk about "Frances", but instead take any depressed, single woman who's had a very, very bad year and suffers from insecurities, an unsupportive family, and, possibly, health issues. Just to pick out a couple of things missmobtown mentioned.
And then have another look at jon's "advice": Arrange. A brisk rogering. For her.
What could he possibly mean by that? In all seriousness. Even if you, er, reword his comment to something like, "sex might be a good idea", there is absolutely no way that this could be applicable to the woman in question. Unless you tell me that, say, one of her room mates should invite a male friend over and have him, what's the expression jon used over at MeTa, force some "human contact" on her. I'm serious, that's the only way jon's comment can be interpreted.
She is currently not in the position to date, is what I'm trying to say. Not in any healthy way. And hey, women feel good after sex? No shit. But I don't see how this applies to the situation in question, and what's more, it completely fails to justify jon's inane remark.
Plus, he didn't get flagged for suggesting sex, but for the way he did it. You do know about the power of language, and his choice of words was completely off limits. And yes, to me, horrible.
posted by mumble at 2:37 PM on November 29, 2005
*raises hand* Oversensitive, probably. Projecting ... I'm not sure what you mean by that.
However, I still have to disagree with you. Let's not talk about "Frances", but instead take any depressed, single woman who's had a very, very bad year and suffers from insecurities, an unsupportive family, and, possibly, health issues. Just to pick out a couple of things missmobtown mentioned.
And then have another look at jon's "advice": Arrange. A brisk rogering. For her.
What could he possibly mean by that? In all seriousness. Even if you, er, reword his comment to something like, "sex might be a good idea", there is absolutely no way that this could be applicable to the woman in question. Unless you tell me that, say, one of her room mates should invite a male friend over and have him, what's the expression jon used over at MeTa, force some "human contact" on her. I'm serious, that's the only way jon's comment can be interpreted.
She is currently not in the position to date, is what I'm trying to say. Not in any healthy way. And hey, women feel good after sex? No shit. But I don't see how this applies to the situation in question, and what's more, it completely fails to justify jon's inane remark.
Plus, he didn't get flagged for suggesting sex, but for the way he did it. You do know about the power of language, and his choice of words was completely off limits. And yes, to me, horrible.
posted by mumble at 2:37 PM on November 29, 2005
languagehat, I love you to bits, but..."Well-meant"? Debatable. "Badly-put"? Most definitely. Essentially, on preview, what mumble said.
posted by Gator at 2:43 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by Gator at 2:43 PM on November 29, 2005
I'm not defending the comment in any way except in that I don't think it deserved to be flagged for deletion. I don't actually think the woman in question needs a good rogering. But then I disagree with a lot of the proposed answers here in the green. Personally, I get a lot more annoyed with people who suggest incorrect answers when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about ("uh, it looks like Arabic to me"); those answers can actually mislead the poster, whereas here I think there's very little chance missmobtown is going to run out and hire Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute.
posted by languagehat at 3:35 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by languagehat at 3:35 PM on November 29, 2005
You may try asking for her to help you. Do you need help carrying groceries? Picking out gifts for people? Do you need someone to study with? Someone to help you decide where to take someone to dinner? Someone to go to dinner with so you can check out a restaurant you've been curious about?
Basically: ask her to help you in ways that are exceedingly easy to normal folks who aren't depressed. They may be a challenge for her nonetheless given her state. But probably, they're achievable, and she can feel valuable, AND you can talk to the woman and have something to thank her for and make her feel good about. "Remember that earring set you helped me pick out for my mom? She LOVES them! Thank you so much! I can't believe what a good sense of style you have. Maybe you could help me get a new jacket? I've been wearing this ratty thing for the longest time, but have no idea how to go about replacing it! This weekend? Okay, thanks!"
After a few instances of this, perhaps she'd be interested in doing these activities with you and some friends of yours. Of course, it all depends on her emotional makeup, but a lot of people just want to feel valuable, and especially those who define themselves in part by whether they're living up to the expectations of those around them. If they can do something for someone, then they're on top, they're the one giving and being looked up to.
Maybe you want to bake some cookies or a cake for a friend or co-worker, and need her help? Does a friend of yours want tips on cycling?
posted by lorrer at 3:42 PM on November 29, 2005
Basically: ask her to help you in ways that are exceedingly easy to normal folks who aren't depressed. They may be a challenge for her nonetheless given her state. But probably, they're achievable, and she can feel valuable, AND you can talk to the woman and have something to thank her for and make her feel good about. "Remember that earring set you helped me pick out for my mom? She LOVES them! Thank you so much! I can't believe what a good sense of style you have. Maybe you could help me get a new jacket? I've been wearing this ratty thing for the longest time, but have no idea how to go about replacing it! This weekend? Okay, thanks!"
After a few instances of this, perhaps she'd be interested in doing these activities with you and some friends of yours. Of course, it all depends on her emotional makeup, but a lot of people just want to feel valuable, and especially those who define themselves in part by whether they're living up to the expectations of those around them. If they can do something for someone, then they're on top, they're the one giving and being looked up to.
Maybe you want to bake some cookies or a cake for a friend or co-worker, and need her help? Does a friend of yours want tips on cycling?
posted by lorrer at 3:42 PM on November 29, 2005
Ewww, did I write "normal folks who aren't depressed"? Jesus. You know what I meant, though.
posted by lorrer at 3:52 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by lorrer at 3:52 PM on November 29, 2005
Just be kind to her. Make time for her, like a dinner or a walk, and if you have any encourage your other flatmate(s) to participate. Isolation from her usual support net (her estranged family) means that she'll need to develop a new one, and while you can't heal her, you can let her know she's not alone.
posted by Sara Anne at 3:53 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by Sara Anne at 3:53 PM on November 29, 2005
I've been thinking about this, and it occurred to me that I'd be a lot less tolerant of jon_kill's comment if the poster had been the depressed woman rather than the roommate. But then, I'd like to think jon_kill would have put it differently in that case.
posted by languagehat at 5:18 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by languagehat at 5:18 PM on November 29, 2005
Is your roommate suicidal? Ask her directly. Has she ever harmed herself before? Does she have a plan as to how she would harm herself if that is on her mind. Does she use alcohol or drugs, which are disinhibiting? Try to assess her level of risk to herself. If you ever think it is really serious, call the police so they may take her to an ER for a psychiatric evaluation.
If it does not rise to this level of risk, and you are able to talk to her as at least somewhat of a friend, you might say that you are concerned about her. You might suggest she make an appointment with a psychiatrist or even her PCP to discuss anti-depressants which may help elevate her mood a bit. On a scale of 1-10, where 10 is happy and 1 is severely depressed, your friend sounds like she is about a 2. If she can even get to a 3 or 4 that would be a great relief, whatever the method.
I doubt that sex is on the menu for someone who is clinically depressed, as you describe her symptoms. Clinical depression usually means a decrease in interest in things that give pleasure. I would think that affection and caring would be more in order in this case, if that were available. A Dutch psychiatrist once described psychopathology as the "science of loneliness". You never know how much your kindness and concern may or may not impact her.
This may be a person who is chronically depressed since a young age for reasons that predate the ones you cite. While depression may be biologically based, or a "disease", it may be also the case that her character and the circumstances of her life have led her to this painful state. Whatever the etiology, depression can be alleviated considerably with a good therapist and or meds or love or whatever does the trick. One can learn to live with one's own suffering and still carry on and find a path in life.
You of course don't have a responsibility to her but that does not seem to be the issue here. Since you care, you can try to speak directly and frankly to her, just as you might to a child of yours you were deeply concerned about. Good luck to y ou and her.
posted by madstop1 at 6:02 PM on November 29, 2005
If it does not rise to this level of risk, and you are able to talk to her as at least somewhat of a friend, you might say that you are concerned about her. You might suggest she make an appointment with a psychiatrist or even her PCP to discuss anti-depressants which may help elevate her mood a bit. On a scale of 1-10, where 10 is happy and 1 is severely depressed, your friend sounds like she is about a 2. If she can even get to a 3 or 4 that would be a great relief, whatever the method.
I doubt that sex is on the menu for someone who is clinically depressed, as you describe her symptoms. Clinical depression usually means a decrease in interest in things that give pleasure. I would think that affection and caring would be more in order in this case, if that were available. A Dutch psychiatrist once described psychopathology as the "science of loneliness". You never know how much your kindness and concern may or may not impact her.
This may be a person who is chronically depressed since a young age for reasons that predate the ones you cite. While depression may be biologically based, or a "disease", it may be also the case that her character and the circumstances of her life have led her to this painful state. Whatever the etiology, depression can be alleviated considerably with a good therapist and or meds or love or whatever does the trick. One can learn to live with one's own suffering and still carry on and find a path in life.
You of course don't have a responsibility to her but that does not seem to be the issue here. Since you care, you can try to speak directly and frankly to her, just as you might to a child of yours you were deeply concerned about. Good luck to y ou and her.
posted by madstop1 at 6:02 PM on November 29, 2005
madstop1. um, whoa. Slow down there. A two? And your qualifications for assessing this are what? Have you ever seen a "two"? Because I've BEEN a two.
I think to just barge in and ask her if she is suicidal is a bit aggressive. Sorry. If a roommate who I wasn't extremely close to just started off with that, I would have said "no" even if I was on the edge. Because, when I have been deep within a clinical depression, I get very introverted and very reclusive. My knee jerk reaction would have been to say, "Me? No way" because of the stigma. Her therapist will be watching for signs of this. The roommates can watch and listen for signs without having to go "full frontal". And zoom right to antidepressants? Again, what are your qualifications? Again, sorry, but the ability to do a diagnosis and prognosis on the internet is extremely limited and, if I seem defensive, it is because other people will be reading these answers someday when they may be in similar situations and your answer is really pushing buttons with me. Granted, that's my issue. But I feel like I had to respond in this case.
posted by jeanmari at 6:46 PM on November 29, 2005
I think to just barge in and ask her if she is suicidal is a bit aggressive. Sorry. If a roommate who I wasn't extremely close to just started off with that, I would have said "no" even if I was on the edge. Because, when I have been deep within a clinical depression, I get very introverted and very reclusive. My knee jerk reaction would have been to say, "Me? No way" because of the stigma. Her therapist will be watching for signs of this. The roommates can watch and listen for signs without having to go "full frontal". And zoom right to antidepressants? Again, what are your qualifications? Again, sorry, but the ability to do a diagnosis and prognosis on the internet is extremely limited and, if I seem defensive, it is because other people will be reading these answers someday when they may be in similar situations and your answer is really pushing buttons with me. Granted, that's my issue. But I feel like I had to respond in this case.
posted by jeanmari at 6:46 PM on November 29, 2005
Dear Jeanmari- For what it's worth, I'm a clinical psychologist who works in a mental health center and emergency services with depressed and suicidal patients. By my measure the poster's description sounds in the range of a 2/10 (best). At a 3, one is able to go to work and carry on in spite of the pain. I only meant to say that if the concern rose to a serious level of self-harm, then one ought to call for help immediately. And I agree that this should not be some aggressive inpersonal confrontation, but an expression of worry and care.
posted by madstop1 at 6:57 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by madstop1 at 6:57 PM on November 29, 2005
There are some great websites with information about depression and how to help a friend that is suffering from it. Check out NAMI and NIMH, for starters.
posted by Serena at 7:42 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by Serena at 7:42 PM on November 29, 2005
Thank you for the information. I respect your credentials your intentions. Also, I think this might be a case of no one, not even a mental health professional (with all due respect), being able to deliver an adequate diagnosis and prognosis over the internet. Again, I apologize if I sound defensive, but I have been on the receiving end of very a very quick diagnosis and immediate med treatment which created much more harm than good. A couple of years of harm that other health care providers had to undo. Do I rely on meds to continue to be extremely high functioning? Absolutely. Do I think that they something to be approached with caution? Yes, I do. Do I think they are something that should be recommended to Frances by missmobtown? No, no I don't.
posted by jeanmari at 7:48 PM on November 29, 2005
posted by jeanmari at 7:48 PM on November 29, 2005
Yeargh, I would definitely disagree with barging in. I'm having similar roommate issues (although more food-based, and no, this isn't a case of "she's skinny so she must be anorexic zomg!").
If you can manage to gently and casually -- really casually, I mean it -- get her to open up, that's awesome. If she doesn't want to talk about it, or she doesn't want to talk about it with you, leave it alone.
I suggest bringing home a leaflet about a crisis center or hotline or something similar. Do not phrase it as "Look, this is so you can get some help." Do you live in a building where flyers are sometimes shoved under your door or in your mailbox? I'm at college, so their center distributes tons of stuff in a way that's perfect for this. Present it as "Look, some more crap from the mail, want a look before I toss it?" And leave it on a table somewhere in the apartment. Do not coyly check to see if she looks at it or takes it.
posted by booksandlibretti at 8:16 PM on November 29, 2005
If you can manage to gently and casually -- really casually, I mean it -- get her to open up, that's awesome. If she doesn't want to talk about it, or she doesn't want to talk about it with you, leave it alone.
I suggest bringing home a leaflet about a crisis center or hotline or something similar. Do not phrase it as "Look, this is so you can get some help." Do you live in a building where flyers are sometimes shoved under your door or in your mailbox? I'm at college, so their center distributes tons of stuff in a way that's perfect for this. Present it as "Look, some more crap from the mail, want a look before I toss it?" And leave it on a table somewhere in the apartment. Do not coyly check to see if she looks at it or takes it.
posted by booksandlibretti at 8:16 PM on November 29, 2005
Try to assess her level of risk to herself. If you ever think it is really serious, call the police so they may take her to an ER for a psychiatric evaluation.
On second thoughts, jon_kill's 'advice' was not so bad, compared to that...
posted by funambulist at 4:39 AM on November 30, 2005
On second thoughts, jon_kill's 'advice' was not so bad, compared to that...
posted by funambulist at 4:39 AM on November 30, 2005
Calling emergency services for someone who seems to be in imminent danger of harming themselves strikes me as advice I would call more "superb" than "bad" and I hope the poster takes it to heart. People in their right mind who want to off themselves should, in my opinion, be allowed to do so. Someone in a deep depression is in no condition to make that decision for themselves.
I'd say your responsibilities are little past what you have already done. Express your concern and be as supportive as is expected of a casual acquaintance. My more selfish side also suggests you CYA - someone who is falling that far off the radar may not be making sure she's going to have the money to hold up her end of the arrangement. Don't get yourself evicted over someone else's traumas.
posted by phearlez at 2:53 PM on November 30, 2005
I'd say your responsibilities are little past what you have already done. Express your concern and be as supportive as is expected of a casual acquaintance. My more selfish side also suggests you CYA - someone who is falling that far off the radar may not be making sure she's going to have the money to hold up her end of the arrangement. Don't get yourself evicted over someone else's traumas.
posted by phearlez at 2:53 PM on November 30, 2005
phearlez, I didn't get that specific "imminent danger of harming themselves" impression from missmobtown, I think she would have mentioned it if it had been one of her worries. But she's only saying she doesn't know how to offer her own support to this person as a flatmate. She's saying she doesn't know her that well and asking how can she begin to approach her about this, so in my view suggesting to call the police out of the blue and force her to a psychiatric ward strikes me as an extremely invasive and unwarranted first step.
Of course if missmobtown were to notice actual signs of impending disaster yeah, then emergency calls would make more sense. But from what I understood the situation is not at that level.
Plus, she did mention the roommate is in therapy, whatever poor results it seems to be yielding, maybe her therapist has already an idea of how suicidal the girl is.
posted by funambulist at 1:08 AM on December 1, 2005
Of course if missmobtown were to notice actual signs of impending disaster yeah, then emergency calls would make more sense. But from what I understood the situation is not at that level.
Plus, she did mention the roommate is in therapy, whatever poor results it seems to be yielding, maybe her therapist has already an idea of how suicidal the girl is.
posted by funambulist at 1:08 AM on December 1, 2005
Just in case missmobtown is still checking in, I, for one, would like to know how the roommate's doing a little ways down the road. Hopefully you found some way to help her out without signing on for a full-time babysitting position.
posted by Gator at 1:24 PM on December 3, 2005
posted by Gator at 1:24 PM on December 3, 2005
For anyone who's still watching this thread, my roomates and I sat Frances down last week to tell her that we were worried about her and wanted to make sure she was getting all the support she needed. I think she was really relieved to have her condition out in the open (rather than feeling like she had something to hide) and she got a lot off her chest. We let her know that if she felt like she was in danger, she should come to us, and we let her know that we understood that it would take awhile for her to get better. It turns out that she recently started meds that will hopefully kick in in a few weeks; she's also on a brief leave from work. She definitely likes her therapist and said she's helped her "unpack" a bunch of stuff that she hadn't been able to express before. I actually got to chat with Frances this morning in the kitchen and she seemed relatively stable--no tears! And she made herself breakfast. Hurrah!
posted by missmobtown at 3:32 PM on December 8, 2005
posted by missmobtown at 3:32 PM on December 8, 2005
missmobtown--you rock. I wish you had been MY roommate when I was in my early 20's. Seriously. Good for you. Thanks for checking back in.
posted by jeanmari at 7:32 PM on December 8, 2005
posted by jeanmari at 7:32 PM on December 8, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
Seriously.
posted by jon_kill at 9:48 AM on November 29, 2005