The Trouble with Answered Prayers
May 15, 2015 2:07 PM Subscribe
I met someone on a dating site five months ago, who turned out to be alcoholic. Despite all odds, and both of us trying to resist the other because of this--we talked openly about it--we ended up getting involved and slowly got closer and closer. Finally, he stopped drinking, turned to AA, and effectively disappeared, at which point my abandonment issues kicked in. Help me understand what happened to him, and how to soothe myself in the aftermath. Apologies for the wall of text within.
Part of the attraction was we came from a structurally similar backgrounds: two youngest children of parents in the arts, now both in our 40s, with crazy older siblings. Our parents had similar sensibilities and so do we. Lots of books, arts, humanities, culture, long philosophical talks, similar career choices, and attitudes toward money and lifestyle. As these commonalities became clearer, I realize in retrospect that I started making a slow, gentle reasoned case for him to stop drinking throughout the time I knew him. He was almost there anyway, and I am certainly not the only thing that tipped the balance, but for sure I am one of them. In one of our last conversations, I noted that he had become happier since he met me, and he agreed. Two days later he stopped drinking, and went into AA.
Prior to that, he had repeatedly noted that if he stopped drinking I would never see him again. I thought that was to do with him (rather than AA), and didn't question it much, until a few days before he quit drinking when we finally discussed it a bit, I said that was crazy, and he agreed. The day he actually stopped he called me in the morning and again at night, and said I wouldn't see him for a little while. It's now been three or four weeks and I spoke to him once briefly and exchanged one brief text. In the text, he said he can't talk on the phone right now, and everything was left open-ended. But he didn't respond to my response, and it became clear without him saying so that it would be better if I didn't contact him.
I was okay with it for about a week or so, but then my abandonment issues went gangbusters, and I started making myself very, very busy to avoid them. This helps somewhat, but at the edge of everything I feel panic, even physical hurt. This morning I woke up angry. I'm flailing. Because of the situation I also feel powerless. Quitting drinking is exactly what I wanted him to do, and that's what he did. I just didn't want him to disappear in the process, and it wasn't until after this happened that I read about the AA practice of discouraging relationships for the first year of sobriety. This hugely frustrates me about AA, which I have misgivings about anyway, but I don't think he'd have many other choices for sobriety help in the (small) town where he lives. So this limits my ability to feel angry with AA (which is a fairly abstract response anyway); I also don't think the reasoning behind the no-relationship practice is completely wrong....
For sure, I think he could have explained things to me a little better or a little more, but on the whole I think he behaved very responsibly with me, so I can't really be angry at him, either. I just don't know where to put all my feelings, or if I'll ever hear from him again, or if over time he'll grow to think there must be something wrong with me because I got involved with him while he was still drinking. (The latter point, too, seems to be an AA conclusion to some degree: that who you'd choose after a year of sobriety is usually far healthier than who you'd choose at the beginning of it.) I do wish he'd sought help from entities other than AA, and I do wonder why potential sources of support would be discouraged. For all that, I don't actually know how he interprets AA, which I gather can differ from person to person....
The thing is I knew in advance, intellectually, that if he quit drinking it would take him a long time to sort things out. It's just that I'm having enormous emotional trouble sorting things out myself now, which I hadn't reckoned on. It's worse that our relationship didn't end on a bad note, but on a very, very good one.
For the record, I all but don't drink myself, and have no alcoholics in the family, and I certainly never expected to end up with an alcoholic. I do have a therapist, so that's not the issue. It's also worth noting that after the first time I met him I never drank with him again, told him I didn't want to watch him drink, and tried overall to make clear he was quite obviously hurting himself by drinking, without badgering him about it. I tried very hard to behave ethically about it, and I think I more or less managed it.
But now I'm suffering. Please help me understand what's happening with him, and how to feel better about what's happening now to me.
Part of the attraction was we came from a structurally similar backgrounds: two youngest children of parents in the arts, now both in our 40s, with crazy older siblings. Our parents had similar sensibilities and so do we. Lots of books, arts, humanities, culture, long philosophical talks, similar career choices, and attitudes toward money and lifestyle. As these commonalities became clearer, I realize in retrospect that I started making a slow, gentle reasoned case for him to stop drinking throughout the time I knew him. He was almost there anyway, and I am certainly not the only thing that tipped the balance, but for sure I am one of them. In one of our last conversations, I noted that he had become happier since he met me, and he agreed. Two days later he stopped drinking, and went into AA.
Prior to that, he had repeatedly noted that if he stopped drinking I would never see him again. I thought that was to do with him (rather than AA), and didn't question it much, until a few days before he quit drinking when we finally discussed it a bit, I said that was crazy, and he agreed. The day he actually stopped he called me in the morning and again at night, and said I wouldn't see him for a little while. It's now been three or four weeks and I spoke to him once briefly and exchanged one brief text. In the text, he said he can't talk on the phone right now, and everything was left open-ended. But he didn't respond to my response, and it became clear without him saying so that it would be better if I didn't contact him.
I was okay with it for about a week or so, but then my abandonment issues went gangbusters, and I started making myself very, very busy to avoid them. This helps somewhat, but at the edge of everything I feel panic, even physical hurt. This morning I woke up angry. I'm flailing. Because of the situation I also feel powerless. Quitting drinking is exactly what I wanted him to do, and that's what he did. I just didn't want him to disappear in the process, and it wasn't until after this happened that I read about the AA practice of discouraging relationships for the first year of sobriety. This hugely frustrates me about AA, which I have misgivings about anyway, but I don't think he'd have many other choices for sobriety help in the (small) town where he lives. So this limits my ability to feel angry with AA (which is a fairly abstract response anyway); I also don't think the reasoning behind the no-relationship practice is completely wrong....
For sure, I think he could have explained things to me a little better or a little more, but on the whole I think he behaved very responsibly with me, so I can't really be angry at him, either. I just don't know where to put all my feelings, or if I'll ever hear from him again, or if over time he'll grow to think there must be something wrong with me because I got involved with him while he was still drinking. (The latter point, too, seems to be an AA conclusion to some degree: that who you'd choose after a year of sobriety is usually far healthier than who you'd choose at the beginning of it.) I do wish he'd sought help from entities other than AA, and I do wonder why potential sources of support would be discouraged. For all that, I don't actually know how he interprets AA, which I gather can differ from person to person....
The thing is I knew in advance, intellectually, that if he quit drinking it would take him a long time to sort things out. It's just that I'm having enormous emotional trouble sorting things out myself now, which I hadn't reckoned on. It's worse that our relationship didn't end on a bad note, but on a very, very good one.
For the record, I all but don't drink myself, and have no alcoholics in the family, and I certainly never expected to end up with an alcoholic. I do have a therapist, so that's not the issue. It's also worth noting that after the first time I met him I never drank with him again, told him I didn't want to watch him drink, and tried overall to make clear he was quite obviously hurting himself by drinking, without badgering him about it. I tried very hard to behave ethically about it, and I think I more or less managed it.
But now I'm suffering. Please help me understand what's happening with him, and how to feel better about what's happening now to me.
Best answer: A lot of your post is talking about how you feel angry but shouldn't feel angry.
It's ok to feel angry. It's a normal response to loss (as is sadness, of course). It's even ok to feel angry at people and entities that don't "deserve" it, assuming you don't then go out and burn down the AA meeting hall or whatever. Feelings aren't actions. You may find that letting yourself feel anger for a while lets you get over feeling angry.
posted by jaguar at 2:26 PM on May 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
It's ok to feel angry. It's a normal response to loss (as is sadness, of course). It's even ok to feel angry at people and entities that don't "deserve" it, assuming you don't then go out and burn down the AA meeting hall or whatever. Feelings aren't actions. You may find that letting yourself feel anger for a while lets you get over feeling angry.
posted by jaguar at 2:26 PM on May 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm really sorry to hear about this. Just to state the obvious, there's no way at all of knowing what's going through his head with regard to this. From the sound of it, he expected isolation to come with quitting, and it sounds like he's fulfilling his own prophecy here.
Assuming he's actually doing AA and hasn't just disappeared to drink or sit in a room alone, the chances that you will hear from him at some point are pretty good. Three or four weeks really isn't a long time when you're in the middle of something as big as rearranging your entire MO and getting a new life. Why he thinks that needs to happen without you is a mystery. Do know that if he is doing this, and he's on his way to recovering, there are going to be some pretty big changes in him, aside from abstaining.
That some people in AA recommend not beginning any new relationships in your first year doesn't really tell you much, unfortunately. First off, it's really just a practical suggestion, not something that is in any way a "rule" or "practice." Secondly, it's a suggestion that I see being ignored pretty regularly. And while it's true that in general, people are far better at picking partners when they're not in the middle of an addiction, relationships can and do survive recovery, and even come out stronger, all the time.
If you're wanting to address your response to his behavior, it might benefit you to learn a little about codependency. It sounds like you're already recognized one potential trigger (your fear of abandonment) that could be a good place for you to begin doing your own work. For yourself, not for anyone else. Because you matter too!
posted by Gilbert at 2:31 PM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Assuming he's actually doing AA and hasn't just disappeared to drink or sit in a room alone, the chances that you will hear from him at some point are pretty good. Three or four weeks really isn't a long time when you're in the middle of something as big as rearranging your entire MO and getting a new life. Why he thinks that needs to happen without you is a mystery. Do know that if he is doing this, and he's on his way to recovering, there are going to be some pretty big changes in him, aside from abstaining.
That some people in AA recommend not beginning any new relationships in your first year doesn't really tell you much, unfortunately. First off, it's really just a practical suggestion, not something that is in any way a "rule" or "practice." Secondly, it's a suggestion that I see being ignored pretty regularly. And while it's true that in general, people are far better at picking partners when they're not in the middle of an addiction, relationships can and do survive recovery, and even come out stronger, all the time.
If you're wanting to address your response to his behavior, it might benefit you to learn a little about codependency. It sounds like you're already recognized one potential trigger (your fear of abandonment) that could be a good place for you to begin doing your own work. For yourself, not for anyone else. Because you matter too!
posted by Gilbert at 2:31 PM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
This person is in truth an absolute stranger to you, you don't actually know them very well. I'm really concerned that you are looking at this backwards.
"... and I certainly never expected to end up with an alcoholic."
You are not with this person, you have not ended up with them. I'm even wondering if this guy misrepresented a lot about himself to you. It sounds to my ear a lot more like you were concern trolled or scammed by some weirdo, rather than you happened to meet this "exactly perfect for you guy EXCEPT for his one tragic flaw that takes him away from you in the end."
Google "mirroring" if you are not familiar with the term.
Somebody in their 40's with an alcohol problem usually has a lot more baggage than the alcohol problem. He couldn't be perfect for you, just by definition. That said, I still think the whole episode comes off a little contrived, I'm not buying this narrative. The disappearance seems fake.
Either way, you've dodged a pretty big bullet.
If he really is someone with an addiction issue, than I promise you it will be years to never until he does enough self-work to be a good partner - so you haven't lost anything there. I, however, tend to doubt parts or the entirety of his story and I believe you didn't lose anything because little of what you think you know about him is actually true.
Please get some perspective on this. I think someone very emotionally manipulative did a number on you, and the sooner you can connect with how out of proportion your reaction to this stranger's disappearance is, the sooner you will feel stable.
posted by jbenben at 2:58 PM on May 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
"... and I certainly never expected to end up with an alcoholic."
You are not with this person, you have not ended up with them. I'm even wondering if this guy misrepresented a lot about himself to you. It sounds to my ear a lot more like you were concern trolled or scammed by some weirdo, rather than you happened to meet this "exactly perfect for you guy EXCEPT for his one tragic flaw that takes him away from you in the end."
Google "mirroring" if you are not familiar with the term.
Somebody in their 40's with an alcohol problem usually has a lot more baggage than the alcohol problem. He couldn't be perfect for you, just by definition. That said, I still think the whole episode comes off a little contrived, I'm not buying this narrative. The disappearance seems fake.
Either way, you've dodged a pretty big bullet.
If he really is someone with an addiction issue, than I promise you it will be years to never until he does enough self-work to be a good partner - so you haven't lost anything there. I, however, tend to doubt parts or the entirety of his story and I believe you didn't lose anything because little of what you think you know about him is actually true.
Please get some perspective on this. I think someone very emotionally manipulative did a number on you, and the sooner you can connect with how out of proportion your reaction to this stranger's disappearance is, the sooner you will feel stable.
posted by jbenben at 2:58 PM on May 15, 2015 [15 favorites]
Response by poster: A couple of quick points, and then I'll back off:
Co-Dependency: I do know the difference between caring and caretaking ... and so I don't think I was really doing the co-dependent thing with him.
His Background: Everything he said about himself did check out; I am diligent about this sort of thing, have seen where he lives, have met family members, etc.
Also @jbenben: I understand what mirroring is; I haven't found a good definition of "concern trolling." What do you mean by this?
Thanks for the helpful comments, everyone, keep them coming.
posted by Puppetry for Privacy at 3:19 PM on May 15, 2015
Co-Dependency: I do know the difference between caring and caretaking ... and so I don't think I was really doing the co-dependent thing with him.
His Background: Everything he said about himself did check out; I am diligent about this sort of thing, have seen where he lives, have met family members, etc.
Also @jbenben: I understand what mirroring is; I haven't found a good definition of "concern trolling." What do you mean by this?
Thanks for the helpful comments, everyone, keep them coming.
posted by Puppetry for Privacy at 3:19 PM on May 15, 2015
Regarding concern trolling... It just seems like an act, like he played on your emotions (because he could see you were a sensitive, and therefore susceptible) only to drop you flat.
This could be true (that he played a game) even if he really is who he says, lives where he says, and actually has an alcohol issue.
He told you what he was going to do (drop you flat) then when you were good and hooked and it would hurt you most, he followed through. That's a stunt you'll see pulled by manipulators, sociopaths, and similar types that enjoy playing games or making drama.
In short, I know you paid the buy-in costs to get in deep, but I think you need a refund and to pull your energy away from this situation. It's weird and doesn't track the way a healthy connection will track.
Go ahead and grieve or be angry, but undo the mental gymnastics that have you thinking you are "ending up" with this guy. You shouldn't, and anyway he's disappeared, so you're not. De-program yourself. This isn't worth it.
posted by jbenben at 3:33 PM on May 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
This could be true (that he played a game) even if he really is who he says, lives where he says, and actually has an alcohol issue.
He told you what he was going to do (drop you flat) then when you were good and hooked and it would hurt you most, he followed through. That's a stunt you'll see pulled by manipulators, sociopaths, and similar types that enjoy playing games or making drama.
In short, I know you paid the buy-in costs to get in deep, but I think you need a refund and to pull your energy away from this situation. It's weird and doesn't track the way a healthy connection will track.
Go ahead and grieve or be angry, but undo the mental gymnastics that have you thinking you are "ending up" with this guy. You shouldn't, and anyway he's disappeared, so you're not. De-program yourself. This isn't worth it.
posted by jbenben at 3:33 PM on May 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
Recovery, whether from addiction or anything else, is an incredibly energy-intensive thing. Getting through it requires that you put caring for yourself above pretty much anything else. Including, say, very nice people you just met. You're allowed to feel angry, sad, lonely, all that--but he isn't obligated to attend to your feelings before his at a time like this. If he doesn't have the coping skills to manage both recovery and a relationship, then this is exactly the decision he should have made, and you should probably just let it go and move on. Regret that it couldn't work out, absolutely, but don't try and tell yourself that he could have done this better with you than without you. This wasn't a good way to handle breaking things off, but addiction recovery, like mental health issues and physical disabilities, leaves you with a limited number of spoons to go around. It's probably not that you meant nothing, it's just that you don't mean enough to warrant a whole spoon.
Not that it's not possible that something worse than this is going on, but more like, expecting markedly better of someone going through something this difficult was not reasonable. The nicest person in the world is going to have a bad time of it if they need to break off a not-very-serious romantic entanglement while going through addiction recovery--the same way they'd probably suck at it if they had to do the same thing during chemotherapy. There's a very good reason for discouraging relationships at a time like this. not that you shouldn't try to stay together with long-term partners, but this kind of thing is way more than anybody needs to deal with at a time when things like showers and basic civility may be an uphill battle.
posted by Sequence at 3:54 PM on May 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
Not that it's not possible that something worse than this is going on, but more like, expecting markedly better of someone going through something this difficult was not reasonable. The nicest person in the world is going to have a bad time of it if they need to break off a not-very-serious romantic entanglement while going through addiction recovery--the same way they'd probably suck at it if they had to do the same thing during chemotherapy. There's a very good reason for discouraging relationships at a time like this. not that you shouldn't try to stay together with long-term partners, but this kind of thing is way more than anybody needs to deal with at a time when things like showers and basic civility may be an uphill battle.
posted by Sequence at 3:54 PM on May 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
It sounds like you thought alcohol/drinking was this guy's problem, and that once he got sober the problem would basically be removed. (Which totally makes sense!). I found out after getting sober that alcohol & drugs had been a solution to myriad problems that I couldn't even recognize, much less deal with. Booze was my one tool for coping, and as painful as it was, putting down the bottle was the easy part. Physical sobriety is for many (though not all) problem drinkers just a beginning; it allows the real work to be done. You say "you knew in advance, intellectually, that if he quit drinking it would take him a long time to sort things out..." For me (and many others) it isn't merely sorting things out, it's a total overhaul.
But also he told you he would leave if he got sober, then led you to believe otherwise. That's cruel. Sobriety, in whatever way it's achieved, does not automatically turn jerks into nice people. Often they get nicer; often they just become sober jerks. I second Jaguar's advice that you give yourself permission to be angry with him, with AA, and with the world. I also second Gilbert's advice that you use this experience as an opportunity for growth. I can't tell you how to feel better about what's happening to you, except to encourage you to let it happen, and be open to what change it might bring.
posted by generalist at 3:56 PM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
But also he told you he would leave if he got sober, then led you to believe otherwise. That's cruel. Sobriety, in whatever way it's achieved, does not automatically turn jerks into nice people. Often they get nicer; often they just become sober jerks. I second Jaguar's advice that you give yourself permission to be angry with him, with AA, and with the world. I also second Gilbert's advice that you use this experience as an opportunity for growth. I can't tell you how to feel better about what's happening to you, except to encourage you to let it happen, and be open to what change it might bring.
posted by generalist at 3:56 PM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Bill W is pretty famous as the guy who started AA. His wife, Lois, is less famous but also notable for having started Al-Anon. She thought all of her problems would be solved if Bill W would only stop drinking. He did stop drinking and started AA and spent a bunch of time at AA meetings, etc., and she was all, WTF? I'm supposed to be happy only I'm not. Tl;dr: Consider going to several Al-Anon meetings, not because you are co-dependent but because you have fallen for someone who is an alcoholic. At Al-Anon you will meet people with similar stories. You will also learn to put the focus on yourself and to accept the discomfort of your anger and other feelings and go about your life with your own best interests at heart. Perhaps this guy will surface when he is more stable and sober. Perhaps not. It's super early in his recovery process and lots of people slip several times before they can maintain sobriety.
Keep in mind that the guy you care about is trying to save his own life. Nobody can do it for him. He wasn't drinking because of you and he didn't quit because of you. None of it is about you, although it's hard not to take personally. (I was married for 25+ years to an alcoholic and that was the hardest thing for me to learn.)
Your feelings of abandonment, on the other hand, are all about you. As someone who has similar issues, I wish you well on the therapy front. It's super easy for my own abandonment shit to get stirred up and it's never pretty when that happens. So work on you. Take care of you. Feel your feelings but don't let them lead you into unhealthy behaviour. Love and be kind to yourself.
You asked about soothing yourself. What do you enjoy? One workshop I attended had an incredible list of self-soothing activities. Looking at beauty (from going to a park to sitting in the lobby of a luxury hotel to browsing gorgeous photos in library books). Blowing bubbles. Watching goofy videos. Making a playlist of soothing, comforting music. Soaking in a bathtub with great smelling salts or a nice scented candle. Touching comforting or interesting textures (from cashmere to corduroy to silk to burlap, whatever engages you). Wearing a soft, comfy outfit. Watching funny TV episodes. Baking. Gardening. Getting a massage. Giving a massage. Going for a walk. Going to a movie theatre. Reading a good book (Big Trouble never fails to make me laugh, it's my go-to remedy for illness or misery). Meditation, guided or otherwise. Petting an animal. Rocking a baby. Singing, alone or with a group. Savouring a single serving or mouthful of a truly high quality, delicious food or dish. Seeing a friend and focusing on that friend. Breathing exercises.
I have no idea what you will find soothing. But you do, so make a list and use it. Also, putting something cold like an ice pack on an arm or leg or your neck for 10 minutes (not longer and not on a vital organ) can help distract you from your distress; ditto 15 minutes of jumping jacks or something physical like that. It's okay to distract yourself if you are miserable. Hell, it's okay to enjoy yourself if you can. You will survive this. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 4:27 PM on May 15, 2015 [14 favorites]
Keep in mind that the guy you care about is trying to save his own life. Nobody can do it for him. He wasn't drinking because of you and he didn't quit because of you. None of it is about you, although it's hard not to take personally. (I was married for 25+ years to an alcoholic and that was the hardest thing for me to learn.)
Your feelings of abandonment, on the other hand, are all about you. As someone who has similar issues, I wish you well on the therapy front. It's super easy for my own abandonment shit to get stirred up and it's never pretty when that happens. So work on you. Take care of you. Feel your feelings but don't let them lead you into unhealthy behaviour. Love and be kind to yourself.
You asked about soothing yourself. What do you enjoy? One workshop I attended had an incredible list of self-soothing activities. Looking at beauty (from going to a park to sitting in the lobby of a luxury hotel to browsing gorgeous photos in library books). Blowing bubbles. Watching goofy videos. Making a playlist of soothing, comforting music. Soaking in a bathtub with great smelling salts or a nice scented candle. Touching comforting or interesting textures (from cashmere to corduroy to silk to burlap, whatever engages you). Wearing a soft, comfy outfit. Watching funny TV episodes. Baking. Gardening. Getting a massage. Giving a massage. Going for a walk. Going to a movie theatre. Reading a good book (Big Trouble never fails to make me laugh, it's my go-to remedy for illness or misery). Meditation, guided or otherwise. Petting an animal. Rocking a baby. Singing, alone or with a group. Savouring a single serving or mouthful of a truly high quality, delicious food or dish. Seeing a friend and focusing on that friend. Breathing exercises.
I have no idea what you will find soothing. But you do, so make a list and use it. Also, putting something cold like an ice pack on an arm or leg or your neck for 10 minutes (not longer and not on a vital organ) can help distract you from your distress; ditto 15 minutes of jumping jacks or something physical like that. It's okay to distract yourself if you are miserable. Hell, it's okay to enjoy yourself if you can. You will survive this. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 4:27 PM on May 15, 2015 [14 favorites]
Prior to that, he had repeatedly noted that if he stopped drinking I would never see him again. I thought that was to do with him (rather than AA), and didn't question it much, until a few days before he quit drinking when we finally discussed it a bit, I said that was crazy, and he agreed. The day he actually stopped he called me in the morning and again at night, and said I wouldn't see him for a little while. It's now been three or four weeks and I spoke to him once briefly and exchanged one brief text. In the text, he said he can't talk on the phone right now, and everything was left open-ended. But he didn't respond to my response, and it became clear without him saying so that it would be better if I didn't contact him.
This is...crazy and shitty and if it's the kind of thing AA encourages, misguided. (I don't think this is what they had in mind, if AA and their rules is in fact the impetus behind this and not him)
Just to be clear, you were sleeping with this man? You began a relationship? You were dating? And then he said "if he stopped drinking he would never see you again." Never. Not eventually. Never? And then he contacted you once to tell you he can't talk to you anymore?
(Are you supposed to be the bad guy because while he knew you he was drinking? That makes you a bad influence or something? But you don't drink and never drank with him...what??)
Honey, this is messed up. He sounds like he could be a good friend in two years, if you could salvage anything from this.
You have no choice but to move on. I'm really sorry, but anything else is just fooling yourself.
Respect his wishes, as misguided as they may be. You can't make someone like your or contact you. I think if he really felt deeply for you he would have at the bare minimum explained and apologized. He did not. He would also have realized he is asking you to wait for him and that's not fair, and would want you to seek your own happiness. That is what the truly loving thing in this situation would be.
posted by quincunx at 5:35 PM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is...crazy and shitty and if it's the kind of thing AA encourages, misguided. (I don't think this is what they had in mind, if AA and their rules is in fact the impetus behind this and not him)
Just to be clear, you were sleeping with this man? You began a relationship? You were dating? And then he said "if he stopped drinking he would never see you again." Never. Not eventually. Never? And then he contacted you once to tell you he can't talk to you anymore?
(Are you supposed to be the bad guy because while he knew you he was drinking? That makes you a bad influence or something? But you don't drink and never drank with him...what??)
Honey, this is messed up. He sounds like he could be a good friend in two years, if you could salvage anything from this.
You have no choice but to move on. I'm really sorry, but anything else is just fooling yourself.
Respect his wishes, as misguided as they may be. You can't make someone like your or contact you. I think if he really felt deeply for you he would have at the bare minimum explained and apologized. He did not. He would also have realized he is asking you to wait for him and that's not fair, and would want you to seek your own happiness. That is what the truly loving thing in this situation would be.
posted by quincunx at 5:35 PM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: So much invaluable advice upthread. "Prior to that, he had repeatedly noted that if he stopped drinking I would never see him again," really jumped out at me. It made me wonder if he had tried this before & saw that as a condition of achieving & maintaining sobriety. It also made me wonder if he was just simply feeling too much pressure, rightly or wrongly, & this was his way to make an exit while still being a "good guy," rather than someone who is an alcoholic (who for the record, can still be a good guy, but is just someone with a disease). It sounds like you connected very intensely & feel very deeply for this person, & I would imagine that not knowing what's going on with him is just as upsetting as his cutting ties.
So, where do you go from here? Forward. Be angry, sad, or whatever else you need to feel, whenever you need to feel it. Cocoon yourself away with a movie & a treat &/or go out with friends for a night on the town, whichever suits your personality best. Know that you did the best you could by this person, even when it meant potentially sacrificing what you thought would lead to your own happiness. He may show up down the road, but, for your sake, I would consider this a closed chapter. Mourn the relationship & then invest in things that genuinely matter to you & make you happy, sometimes in spite of yourself. You have a good heart, and I can see how his vanishing act could be a trigger if you have abandonment issues. Just keep reminding yourself that his behavior is all about him & not at all about you. You may have a hard time believing that, but it is true. Also, it's cliche, but with time, this will all get easier. I do think Al-Anon is a good suggestion, as long as it doesn't mire you down further into this situation. Good luck! When you're ready, I truly believe amazing things await.
posted by katemcd at 7:28 PM on May 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
So, where do you go from here? Forward. Be angry, sad, or whatever else you need to feel, whenever you need to feel it. Cocoon yourself away with a movie & a treat &/or go out with friends for a night on the town, whichever suits your personality best. Know that you did the best you could by this person, even when it meant potentially sacrificing what you thought would lead to your own happiness. He may show up down the road, but, for your sake, I would consider this a closed chapter. Mourn the relationship & then invest in things that genuinely matter to you & make you happy, sometimes in spite of yourself. You have a good heart, and I can see how his vanishing act could be a trigger if you have abandonment issues. Just keep reminding yourself that his behavior is all about him & not at all about you. You may have a hard time believing that, but it is true. Also, it's cliche, but with time, this will all get easier. I do think Al-Anon is a good suggestion, as long as it doesn't mire you down further into this situation. Good luck! When you're ready, I truly believe amazing things await.
posted by katemcd at 7:28 PM on May 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Well, if nothing else, you will 100% absolutely positively definitely hear from him when he gets to Step 9: Make Amends. Because he will need to make amends to you because he's being a jackass here. But he's also being pretty typical; getting sober is very often all consuming. It is in many ways like joining a cult, except that it eventually ramps down from literal salvation to routine self-care.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:31 PM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 8:31 PM on May 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm so sorry about this terrible experience. The only silver lining is that it could end up being very valuable for you.
Prior to that, he had repeatedly noted that if he stopped drinking I would never see him again.
This says to me that your boundaries and sense of self-worth aren't as strong as they could be. This is a weird thing to say; it's manipulative - in a sense, it's him trying to make you responsible for his choices and actions. And you're not. But you sort of wanted to call this bluff or test this statement - which wasn't worth your time. In the future, if someone says this kind of thing to you, you don't have to test it to see if they meant it. It's already a messed-up thing to say, and it's okay to walk, right at that point, because they said it, and that shows that their act is not together. Nothing more is needed.
Someone mentioned codependency above, and you sort of brushed it off, but I'd encourage you to revisit it. A lot of the hallmarks are there in your story. Codependency isn't just about caring vs. caretaking; it's about the tendency to seek out and invest in partners who aren't whole, in the hopes that you can create a mutual dependency on one another that might make up for empty places in yourselves (your abandonment issues, after all, predate this relationship; why would someone with fear of abandonment pursue a relationship in which they were so likely to be abandoned?). It sounds like that's what happened here - you hoped your individual brokennesses might draw you more closely together. There's an irony that codependent people can genuinely think they are helping one another, in the way you thought you were helping him with your "calm" and "gentle' suggestions about sobriety. In reality, that may have been you doing more for you than for him. You had a rescuing impulse there. But it's not your job to rescue other people. It's also not love to try to rescue other people, or to volunteer to be rescued. It tends to produce resentment and distance rather than love.
Your complaints about AA are a big red herring. I think you might be displacing anger onto AA that really belongs with you. AA hasn't done anything to your ex or forced anything upon him (based on your description, we don't actually even know he's going to AA, but even if he were, coercion is not AA's thing). It's not AA's fault that he isn't with you and doesn't want to be with you. You seem to be thinking a lot about the role AA plays in this, but AA did not say the weird things to you, AA did not disappear and stop calling and texting. Your ex did. AA is not at fault here. It may not even be a factor. IT's not the thing to be angry about. There's a legitimate basis for anger against your ex and against yourself, so maybe look at that a little more and AA a lot less.
To bring it back to your question, the main thing that's happening with you is that you chose a really non-viable partner to pin some high hopes on, and you probably could use a chance to figure out why you did that. Undoubtedly it brought you some growth, some feelings of acceptance and connection, and some nice moments, but on the whole it seems to have been destructive of your feelings of self-control and self-worth. I recommend turning to your therapist to figure this out. Keep the focus on you, not him. Every cycle you spend thinking about him is letting you off the hook, and you can't afford to be off the hook. This is all about you. It has almost nothing to do with your choice of partner, and if it hadn't been this guy, it'd have been another, and if you don't figure it out, you're likely to repeat it. You owe it to yourself to do some heavy lifting right now to try to understand how you got into this sort of relationship structure, so that you can go forward into the future with much better chances of a much healthier, happier, adult, balanced relationship.
I had some similar struggles with a partner who drank (which is why I might sound harsh, but I'm really trying to sound emphatic) and I was helped a tremendous amount by Melody Beattie's books Codependent No More and Beyond Codependency. I read them and I did the exercises assigned, and I saw a therapist during that period, too. It was difficult, sad, and honest. I came out with a different and better way to be in relationships. I'm glad I went through it - it straightened my head out a lot, and all my subsequent relationships have been amazingly better. So please don't rule out that these resources have something helpful to offer you. Al-Anon is also a good suggestion, because, like codependency resources, it keeps the focus solely on you and the only things you can control - yourself, your boundaries, your emotions, your choice of people to be around, your behavior. It will help keep you away from blaming others - your ex, AA, circumstances - for things that have happened to you, and you'll meet helpful kind people and get some useful tools. Finally, you have a therapist - use that person! This is exactly the kind of thing to bring into therapy.
Good luck to you. I know it's probably confusing and hurtful right now, but there is a way out of thinking and feeling like this. The world isn't doing this to you. You can understand it. Be a friend to yourself, have some sympathy for yourself, but please start taking some of these steps to making sure you are no longer willing to give so much of yourself and your power away to the neediness of others.
posted by Miko at 8:47 PM on May 15, 2015 [14 favorites]
Prior to that, he had repeatedly noted that if he stopped drinking I would never see him again.
This says to me that your boundaries and sense of self-worth aren't as strong as they could be. This is a weird thing to say; it's manipulative - in a sense, it's him trying to make you responsible for his choices and actions. And you're not. But you sort of wanted to call this bluff or test this statement - which wasn't worth your time. In the future, if someone says this kind of thing to you, you don't have to test it to see if they meant it. It's already a messed-up thing to say, and it's okay to walk, right at that point, because they said it, and that shows that their act is not together. Nothing more is needed.
Someone mentioned codependency above, and you sort of brushed it off, but I'd encourage you to revisit it. A lot of the hallmarks are there in your story. Codependency isn't just about caring vs. caretaking; it's about the tendency to seek out and invest in partners who aren't whole, in the hopes that you can create a mutual dependency on one another that might make up for empty places in yourselves (your abandonment issues, after all, predate this relationship; why would someone with fear of abandonment pursue a relationship in which they were so likely to be abandoned?). It sounds like that's what happened here - you hoped your individual brokennesses might draw you more closely together. There's an irony that codependent people can genuinely think they are helping one another, in the way you thought you were helping him with your "calm" and "gentle' suggestions about sobriety. In reality, that may have been you doing more for you than for him. You had a rescuing impulse there. But it's not your job to rescue other people. It's also not love to try to rescue other people, or to volunteer to be rescued. It tends to produce resentment and distance rather than love.
Your complaints about AA are a big red herring. I think you might be displacing anger onto AA that really belongs with you. AA hasn't done anything to your ex or forced anything upon him (based on your description, we don't actually even know he's going to AA, but even if he were, coercion is not AA's thing). It's not AA's fault that he isn't with you and doesn't want to be with you. You seem to be thinking a lot about the role AA plays in this, but AA did not say the weird things to you, AA did not disappear and stop calling and texting. Your ex did. AA is not at fault here. It may not even be a factor. IT's not the thing to be angry about. There's a legitimate basis for anger against your ex and against yourself, so maybe look at that a little more and AA a lot less.
To bring it back to your question, the main thing that's happening with you is that you chose a really non-viable partner to pin some high hopes on, and you probably could use a chance to figure out why you did that. Undoubtedly it brought you some growth, some feelings of acceptance and connection, and some nice moments, but on the whole it seems to have been destructive of your feelings of self-control and self-worth. I recommend turning to your therapist to figure this out. Keep the focus on you, not him. Every cycle you spend thinking about him is letting you off the hook, and you can't afford to be off the hook. This is all about you. It has almost nothing to do with your choice of partner, and if it hadn't been this guy, it'd have been another, and if you don't figure it out, you're likely to repeat it. You owe it to yourself to do some heavy lifting right now to try to understand how you got into this sort of relationship structure, so that you can go forward into the future with much better chances of a much healthier, happier, adult, balanced relationship.
I had some similar struggles with a partner who drank (which is why I might sound harsh, but I'm really trying to sound emphatic) and I was helped a tremendous amount by Melody Beattie's books Codependent No More and Beyond Codependency. I read them and I did the exercises assigned, and I saw a therapist during that period, too. It was difficult, sad, and honest. I came out with a different and better way to be in relationships. I'm glad I went through it - it straightened my head out a lot, and all my subsequent relationships have been amazingly better. So please don't rule out that these resources have something helpful to offer you. Al-Anon is also a good suggestion, because, like codependency resources, it keeps the focus solely on you and the only things you can control - yourself, your boundaries, your emotions, your choice of people to be around, your behavior. It will help keep you away from blaming others - your ex, AA, circumstances - for things that have happened to you, and you'll meet helpful kind people and get some useful tools. Finally, you have a therapist - use that person! This is exactly the kind of thing to bring into therapy.
Good luck to you. I know it's probably confusing and hurtful right now, but there is a way out of thinking and feeling like this. The world isn't doing this to you. You can understand it. Be a friend to yourself, have some sympathy for yourself, but please start taking some of these steps to making sure you are no longer willing to give so much of yourself and your power away to the neediness of others.
posted by Miko at 8:47 PM on May 15, 2015 [14 favorites]
Alcohol detox requires hospitalization. Period. It is terrible on the body. He may have chosen to go inpatient doing a traditional 30 day program. In those he would not be allowed to contact you in any way.
So dont give hope just yet, but he is going to be different than you knew him before.
It is super hard intense work to get sober.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:52 AM on May 16, 2015
So dont give hope just yet, but he is going to be different than you knew him before.
It is super hard intense work to get sober.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:52 AM on May 16, 2015
Quitting drinking is exactly what I wanted him to do and that's what he did. I just didn't want him to disappear in the process. - I do wish he'd sought help from entities other than AA, and I do wonder why potential sources of support would be discouraged.
When you read these statements, do you realize that all of this is about what you want and not about him? You wanted him to get sober so you could be in a relationship with him, and you wanted him to get sober on your terms because you don't like AA. Regardless of the philosophies of some people in AA, he has made the decision to distance himself. Just like he said that he would, in fact.
If it helps, I did the same thing as him when I finally made a concerted effort to get sober. I dropped all of my friends - some temporarily, some permanently, and I did have to make amends to many of them. I dropped them for a number of reasons, but the three biggest were that I I never had any real connection with them in the first place, I was hanging out with them only because they didn't think it was weird that I drank a most bottle of bourbon in front of them, or because I was in way too much emotional turmoil to want to put them through being around me at the moment. No one in AA told me to do that, no one so much as suggested I do that. It was a thing I needed to do for me, and I executed it poorly.
You say you feel powerless; you are powerless. You cannot control other people, but right now you are trying to figure out how you lost control of him. You didn't, you just never had any control. His sobriety is his, he's taking care of himself right now. Neither he nor is presence in your life are going to fix the emotions that you're experiencing.
I do have a therapist, so that's not the issue.
You have a therapist, so what's not the issue? I have three bicycles, but that does not mean that I am in shape. Your brain is in overdrive about this situation and while I understand that you are hurting and this is a painful situation to be in, I agree with others who point out that you seem to be battling some major codependency issues and may not be aware of it. Even if you think you don't - and perhaps you may not - use this time to make the best you, for yourself. If you do that, you'll be the best you for everyone else in your life as well. Best of luck to you.
posted by good lorneing at 7:39 AM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
When you read these statements, do you realize that all of this is about what you want and not about him? You wanted him to get sober so you could be in a relationship with him, and you wanted him to get sober on your terms because you don't like AA. Regardless of the philosophies of some people in AA, he has made the decision to distance himself. Just like he said that he would, in fact.
If it helps, I did the same thing as him when I finally made a concerted effort to get sober. I dropped all of my friends - some temporarily, some permanently, and I did have to make amends to many of them. I dropped them for a number of reasons, but the three biggest were that I I never had any real connection with them in the first place, I was hanging out with them only because they didn't think it was weird that I drank a most bottle of bourbon in front of them, or because I was in way too much emotional turmoil to want to put them through being around me at the moment. No one in AA told me to do that, no one so much as suggested I do that. It was a thing I needed to do for me, and I executed it poorly.
You say you feel powerless; you are powerless. You cannot control other people, but right now you are trying to figure out how you lost control of him. You didn't, you just never had any control. His sobriety is his, he's taking care of himself right now. Neither he nor is presence in your life are going to fix the emotions that you're experiencing.
I do have a therapist, so that's not the issue.
You have a therapist, so what's not the issue? I have three bicycles, but that does not mean that I am in shape. Your brain is in overdrive about this situation and while I understand that you are hurting and this is a painful situation to be in, I agree with others who point out that you seem to be battling some major codependency issues and may not be aware of it. Even if you think you don't - and perhaps you may not - use this time to make the best you, for yourself. If you do that, you'll be the best you for everyone else in your life as well. Best of luck to you.
posted by good lorneing at 7:39 AM on May 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's a huge trap for him to have to get sober in order to have a relationship with you. Maybe he's really going to meetings, maybe (as someone posted up there already), he's alone somewhere drinking. The whole situation (pressure, conditional love, +addiction) is a set-up for his failure. As for you, waiting for someone to get sober in order to have a relationship? Another big set-up -- for your own misery.
Now you have to see if you can move on or if you are going to remain obsessed with the Unattainable, Perfect-Except-for-One-Fatal-Flaw lover. Dealing with this (as per: what's your history with this? with relationships in general?) is *your* work (his work is his -- leave him alone with it (as if you had a choice)).
posted by DMelanogaster at 7:49 AM on May 16, 2015
Now you have to see if you can move on or if you are going to remain obsessed with the Unattainable, Perfect-Except-for-One-Fatal-Flaw lover. Dealing with this (as per: what's your history with this? with relationships in general?) is *your* work (his work is his -- leave him alone with it (as if you had a choice)).
posted by DMelanogaster at 7:49 AM on May 16, 2015
You talk about your problem in (ahem) structurally similar ways that an addict talks about theirs. The intensity of your panic, anger, and suffering? All the same. The terror and overwhelm? Same. The need to avoid these feelings at any price? Same. The need to lash out and blame others? Same. The freak out over loss of control? Same. The need to control the freak out by controlling something or someone else? Same.
Of course your abandonment issues are freaking out. You just lost something that usually works to keep them quiet. Without a back up plan (you) they will take him back drinking. They will take him back sober. Fuck what you want. Fuck what's good for you or him. They don't care how he comes back. So long as he comes back they're happy.
His alcoholic knows this. It knows your abandonment issues will help it keep drinking. Somehow, someway his alcoholic and your abandonment issues will make an alliance and conspire against you both. He not a defective person, you're not a defective person. There's nothing irrevocably broken about either of you. It's just that your mastery of your respective beasties is still quite green and tender. It will need to be much sturdier before you two can be of much use to yourselves or anyone else.
AA knows this. That's why they discourage relationships in early recovery. How do they know? Because everyone does it. Just about everyone in active use and early recovery will look for people who will help them keep using. It's not deliberately malicious or intentionally manipulative. It's not usually fully conscious the first few times around the sobriety block. Addiction wants to survive. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. It follows the same rules of survival as everything else.
His leaving is him saying no, I'm not going to let my alcoholic drive me into a place where it can keep going. You are respecting his need to stay away, I think, because there's a part of you that doesn't want to let your abandonment issues drive you into relationships that keep them happy but you miserable. I hope the breakup sticks. You're fighting the good fight. I hope you both win.
posted by space_cookie at 4:09 PM on May 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Of course your abandonment issues are freaking out. You just lost something that usually works to keep them quiet. Without a back up plan (you) they will take him back drinking. They will take him back sober. Fuck what you want. Fuck what's good for you or him. They don't care how he comes back. So long as he comes back they're happy.
His alcoholic knows this. It knows your abandonment issues will help it keep drinking. Somehow, someway his alcoholic and your abandonment issues will make an alliance and conspire against you both. He not a defective person, you're not a defective person. There's nothing irrevocably broken about either of you. It's just that your mastery of your respective beasties is still quite green and tender. It will need to be much sturdier before you two can be of much use to yourselves or anyone else.
AA knows this. That's why they discourage relationships in early recovery. How do they know? Because everyone does it. Just about everyone in active use and early recovery will look for people who will help them keep using. It's not deliberately malicious or intentionally manipulative. It's not usually fully conscious the first few times around the sobriety block. Addiction wants to survive. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. It follows the same rules of survival as everything else.
His leaving is him saying no, I'm not going to let my alcoholic drive me into a place where it can keep going. You are respecting his need to stay away, I think, because there's a part of you that doesn't want to let your abandonment issues drive you into relationships that keep them happy but you miserable. I hope the breakup sticks. You're fighting the good fight. I hope you both win.
posted by space_cookie at 4:09 PM on May 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
But it was a dick move on his part that he chose to go cold turkey on you. He was probably told that he should not see ANY reminders of his past or some psychobabble like that.
You need to talk to your therapist again.
posted by kschang at 2:14 PM on May 15, 2015 [8 favorites]