If a salary is listed in a job posting is that code for "non US citizens only"?
November 27, 2005 11:21 PM Subscribe
If a salary is listed in a US job posting is that a hidden signal that the job is actually intended for a non-citizen and that I, as a US citizen, shouldn’t bother applying?
Obviously this isn't true in all cases, but is it true in the majority of them? I’ve often thought it strange that the majority of jobs with a salary listed seemed be considerably below what I’d consider normal for that position. It could also be that they’re just starting the salary negotiations at a low point and that depending on experience (like most other companies) they’d be willing to move the value up for the right candidate.
Kirth Gerson mentions this in this old thread about jobs on AskMe, but he also says "newspaper", so it could only apply there an not to web postings.
Can anyone cite an employment law that requires companies to list a salary for a position before offering it to non-citizens?
Anyone have experience with an actual company doing this?
(I’ve seen this on Senior/Lead Software Engineering jobs recently, but it’s possible that it applies to other fields and positions as well)
I'm also comparing salaries based on my own experience as well as what I've seen in recent salary surveys (ex. here).
Obviously this isn't true in all cases, but is it true in the majority of them? I’ve often thought it strange that the majority of jobs with a salary listed seemed be considerably below what I’d consider normal for that position. It could also be that they’re just starting the salary negotiations at a low point and that depending on experience (like most other companies) they’d be willing to move the value up for the right candidate.
Kirth Gerson mentions this in this old thread about jobs on AskMe, but he also says "newspaper", so it could only apply there an not to web postings.
Can anyone cite an employment law that requires companies to list a salary for a position before offering it to non-citizens?
Anyone have experience with an actual company doing this?
(I’ve seen this on Senior/Lead Software Engineering jobs recently, but it’s possible that it applies to other fields and positions as well)
I'm also comparing salaries based on my own experience as well as what I've seen in recent salary surveys (ex. here).
I know that when we were trying to hire somebody on an h1B visa, our HR department asked me to get the job posted for some fixed amount of time. So, I suspect you do have to attempt to fill the job with somebody eligible to work in this country before you can bring somebody else in to do the job.
However, I doubt that in all or even most instances, a listed salary means they don't want to fill it with a citizen. In fact, according to this page:
However, I doubt that in all or even most instances, a listed salary means they don't want to fill it with a citizen. In fact, according to this page:
Employers [must] affirm in the labor condition application that the wage offered to the applicant is at least as high as that paid by the employer for the same type of job, and the number equals or exceeds the prevailing wage for the job.posted by willnot at 11:45 PM on November 27, 2005
I just checked the job listings in my local newspaper in the IT field, and there are tons of jobs that have specific salary ranges listed and require U.S. citizenship, so I really don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
In general I've found that salaries offered on job listings are rarely particularly generous. I've told employers that what they're offering isn't really reasonable for the experience they're looking for and have had them offer something closer to what I was expecting. (And I've also had the interviewer point to a stack of resumes on his desk of people who seemed perfectly comfortable with the salary as stated.)
posted by mragreeable at 11:52 PM on November 27, 2005
In general I've found that salaries offered on job listings are rarely particularly generous. I've told employers that what they're offering isn't really reasonable for the experience they're looking for and have had them offer something closer to what I was expecting. (And I've also had the interviewer point to a stack of resumes on his desk of people who seemed perfectly comfortable with the salary as stated.)
posted by mragreeable at 11:52 PM on November 27, 2005
Response by poster: mragreeable: I'm not sure that the job posting saying that it "reqires" a U.S. citizenship prevents the company from filling the slot with a non-citizen after a couple of weeks (but, I see your point).
I guess for me, most of it is that the few listed salaries that I've seen have been surprisingly low and this explanation seemed to fit.
It also might be true that the law says that the "wage offered to the applicant is at leas as high as that paid by the employer for the same type of job", but I've known more than one person with an H1B that has been paid considerably less (10-20%) than average for a position, and I've never known anyone with an H1B to get paid greater than the mid point for a positions salary range.
posted by freshgroundpepper at 12:07 AM on November 28, 2005
I guess for me, most of it is that the few listed salaries that I've seen have been surprisingly low and this explanation seemed to fit.
It also might be true that the law says that the "wage offered to the applicant is at leas as high as that paid by the employer for the same type of job", but I've known more than one person with an H1B that has been paid considerably less (10-20%) than average for a position, and I've never known anyone with an H1B to get paid greater than the mid point for a positions salary range.
posted by freshgroundpepper at 12:07 AM on November 28, 2005
I may have overstated the case in that other thread. Probably some companies do list salaries for jobs that are open to anyone. My experience with newspaper ads that do is that they're fulfilling a government requirement so they can hire an alien. I don't know if that requirement can be fulfilled with an Internet job posting. And they often do pay foreigners significantly less than citizens.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:00 AM on November 28, 2005
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:00 AM on November 28, 2005
I was a H1B for a while and have seen plenty of the H1B ads. They're usually placed by lawyers and have very odd, specific language including the fact that you're expected to work 40 hours per week and often state something along the lines of "skills to include a, b, c, x, y, z" where all of the above are very basic, obvious skills for the job. I used to see them a lot in the NY Post.
(P.S. In 6 years as a H1B I was never paid below par. In fact, I was generally paid above average for what I do).
posted by jamesonandwater at 5:37 AM on November 28, 2005
(P.S. In 6 years as a H1B I was never paid below par. In fact, I was generally paid above average for what I do).
posted by jamesonandwater at 5:37 AM on November 28, 2005
Hey freshgroundpepper.
Actually, giving it some thought, listings in my local paper probably don't make for a very good example. Here in southeastern VA the majority of jobs listed are with military/government contractors, and often require clearance or the ability to get clearance.
Looking over the listings again I see that the citizenship/clearance thing are very often linked together.
posted by mragreeable at 5:55 AM on November 28, 2005
Actually, giving it some thought, listings in my local paper probably don't make for a very good example. Here in southeastern VA the majority of jobs listed are with military/government contractors, and often require clearance or the ability to get clearance.
Looking over the listings again I see that the citizenship/clearance thing are very often linked together.
posted by mragreeable at 5:55 AM on November 28, 2005
Generally, job openings that are advertised are the ones that are more difficult to fill (usually because it's a position that few people want). The fact that the position is underpaid is one possible reason for this
posted by winston at 5:57 AM on November 28, 2005
posted by winston at 5:57 AM on November 28, 2005
Statements regarding working hours, for a professional position, are actually a better indicator than a stated salary that the company expects to hire an H1 for the position.
posted by MattD at 9:14 AM on November 28, 2005
posted by MattD at 9:14 AM on November 28, 2005
I’ve often thought it strange that the majority of jobs with a salary listed seemed be considerably below what I’d consider normal for that position.
This is probably an indication of the ongoing soft job market more than anything else.
posted by mkultra at 11:54 AM on November 28, 2005
This is probably an indication of the ongoing soft job market more than anything else.
posted by mkultra at 11:54 AM on November 28, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
In my experience, the best companies always list the salary as it cuts right to the chase and saves time by making sure that those who apply are doing so knowing what the job pays.
If an amount is lower than expected for the job title, it makes more sense for the company to state this upfront. Otherwise, people will be pissed assuming it pays the standard rate only to find out post-interview(s) that it doesn't.
posted by Manhasset at 11:41 PM on November 27, 2005