I don't know whether to live in Boston or SF!
April 30, 2015 7:48 PM Subscribe
I (29, male) am finishing grad school in Boston in a few weeks. I want to live in either Boston or SF. Either way, I have to sacrifice relationships: if I stay here by rarely seeing my extended family, and if I move by losing touch with my friends here. How do I choose?
I can find a good job (mechanical engineering related, not software) in either city. I've lived in a few other places and these two cities fit my personality best.
Reasons to move to SF: I could see my brothers [22M, 23M] a few times a week instead of a few times a year like I do now. We're close and I want to maintain my relationship with them as we all get older. Also, I am drawn to SF as the hub of entrepreneurship and disruptive change that makes new industries. I have some ideas, solid technical skills, and plans to grow my business/relationship skills to be able to make something new happen and I've struggled to find interested co-founders out here. Also, no ice-covered roads or humidity would be great. Also I might be able to get back in touch with a couple of friends from long ago who live in the Bay Area.
Reasons to stay in Boston: I'm comfortable with my routine here. I only have a handful of friends but I know them well and see them pretty regularly. I also enjoy Boston's culture of academic achievement. Also, I do mechanical engineering so I have somewhat better job prospects out here due to SF's software focus, even though I'm looking for a job that's closer to sales to build a different set of skills. Also, I'm worried about my dating chances in SF: I'm single now and here in Boston there's a good balance of eligible women and men, and I'm worried in SF there are too many men so I couldn't attract the kind of woman I'm looking for unless I'm able to make a few million from a startup. Also, rent is moderately cheaper here than in SF. Also, I'm worried that even though I'm from the West Coast originally I won't be able to transition back to the culture of SF after becoming comfortable with East Coast formality and resume-polishing.
I don't know how to make this choice. In the next few years I want to advance in my career from engineering to a management / business development role, get engaged to a good and successful woman, grow my relationship with my brothers, and build the professional skills and relationships I would need to start a new business that I would own at least half of. I could do this either place. It feels like I'd save about a year by staying in Boston and not having to start over, but I'd regret staying after 3+ years and growing apart from my brothers and extended family. Both choices seem painful so I can't fully commit to either. I want to decide in the next week so I can move on to the next step and know what to tell my friends/family about my plans after graduation. What should I do??
tl;dr: Do I live near Boston (current friends) or San Francisco (family)?
I can find a good job (mechanical engineering related, not software) in either city. I've lived in a few other places and these two cities fit my personality best.
Reasons to move to SF: I could see my brothers [22M, 23M] a few times a week instead of a few times a year like I do now. We're close and I want to maintain my relationship with them as we all get older. Also, I am drawn to SF as the hub of entrepreneurship and disruptive change that makes new industries. I have some ideas, solid technical skills, and plans to grow my business/relationship skills to be able to make something new happen and I've struggled to find interested co-founders out here. Also, no ice-covered roads or humidity would be great. Also I might be able to get back in touch with a couple of friends from long ago who live in the Bay Area.
Reasons to stay in Boston: I'm comfortable with my routine here. I only have a handful of friends but I know them well and see them pretty regularly. I also enjoy Boston's culture of academic achievement. Also, I do mechanical engineering so I have somewhat better job prospects out here due to SF's software focus, even though I'm looking for a job that's closer to sales to build a different set of skills. Also, I'm worried about my dating chances in SF: I'm single now and here in Boston there's a good balance of eligible women and men, and I'm worried in SF there are too many men so I couldn't attract the kind of woman I'm looking for unless I'm able to make a few million from a startup. Also, rent is moderately cheaper here than in SF. Also, I'm worried that even though I'm from the West Coast originally I won't be able to transition back to the culture of SF after becoming comfortable with East Coast formality and resume-polishing.
I don't know how to make this choice. In the next few years I want to advance in my career from engineering to a management / business development role, get engaged to a good and successful woman, grow my relationship with my brothers, and build the professional skills and relationships I would need to start a new business that I would own at least half of. I could do this either place. It feels like I'd save about a year by staying in Boston and not having to start over, but I'd regret staying after 3+ years and growing apart from my brothers and extended family. Both choices seem painful so I can't fully commit to either. I want to decide in the next week so I can move on to the next step and know what to tell my friends/family about my plans after graduation. What should I do??
tl;dr: Do I live near Boston (current friends) or San Francisco (family)?
Best answer: Your brothers might not stay in the Bay Area for the same reasons you find Boston attracive. Western women are also different than eastern, too. It is awesome you have that closeness, but often friends carry on with you over time, especially if interests connect.
I'd stick with Boston until you have something to move west, that fits that scene well enough, to thrive there. Then your brothers have good reason to travel.
posted by Oyéah at 8:02 PM on April 30, 2015
I'd stick with Boston until you have something to move west, that fits that scene well enough, to thrive there. Then your brothers have good reason to travel.
posted by Oyéah at 8:02 PM on April 30, 2015
Don't underestimate how truly shitty the rental market in San Francisco is right now. Like, soul-suckingly bad.
posted by gingerbeer at 8:17 PM on April 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 8:17 PM on April 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
Don't underestimate how truly shitty the rental market in San Francisco is right now. Like, soul-suckingly bad.
different specifics but this kind of detail seriously soured an attempt I made years ago to relocate to London. That said, I don't exactly regret trying it. I was young. I learned a pile.
posted by philip-random at 8:24 PM on April 30, 2015
different specifics but this kind of detail seriously soured an attempt I made years ago to relocate to London. That said, I don't exactly regret trying it. I was young. I learned a pile.
posted by philip-random at 8:24 PM on April 30, 2015
Hmm this is a tough one. I personally love SF and being close to my family. I moved here from Boston actually. I vastly underestimated the effect of being closer to my family and the lovely weather. I also love being in a center of innovation; it's truly a way of thinking that I haven't experienced elsewhere and I'v been lucky to have been able to study at top research institutions.
Rental market is tough, but it's doable. I have been fortunate to have found an apartment through friends that is affordable (1k).
I find it way easier to meet people in SF than I did in Boston. They're much more friendly. You may not be able to be as close to your current friends, but I read a stat somewhere that every five years organically our friend group changes by 50%. So even if you stay put in a few years your friend group may change anyways.
Re dating market, it's true there are more guys. But they are nerds who are socially awkward and even may not be interested in settling down - there is a fair amount not even in the dating market because they are so focused on their careers. You sound like a really nice guy and in fact your East Coast formality and open desire to be in a committed relationship will be very attractive to a woman in SF.
I vote SF for this one; but you have to be willing to make the leap.
posted by pando11 at 8:27 PM on April 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Rental market is tough, but it's doable. I have been fortunate to have found an apartment through friends that is affordable (1k).
I find it way easier to meet people in SF than I did in Boston. They're much more friendly. You may not be able to be as close to your current friends, but I read a stat somewhere that every five years organically our friend group changes by 50%. So even if you stay put in a few years your friend group may change anyways.
Re dating market, it's true there are more guys. But they are nerds who are socially awkward and even may not be interested in settling down - there is a fair amount not even in the dating market because they are so focused on their careers. You sound like a really nice guy and in fact your East Coast formality and open desire to be in a committed relationship will be very attractive to a woman in SF.
I vote SF for this one; but you have to be willing to make the leap.
posted by pando11 at 8:27 PM on April 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
SF. Hands down.
posted by jbenben at 8:40 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jbenben at 8:40 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
It will be easier to move to SF now than when you have even more roots in Boston. And it sounds like SF is where you want to be.
posted by aniola at 8:51 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by aniola at 8:51 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
You've done Boston, why not give SF a try? Here's the thing: you can always change your mind later once you've given SF a fair shake. Boston isn't going anywhere.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:21 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 9:21 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Another vote for (the) SF (Bay Area)! Partly because you've already experienced Boston, why not go for somewhere new? But also, I've lived in both places, and am currently settled in the Bay Area for the long haul.
The weather is certainly much, much nicer. :) I do not miss snow! If you find yourself missing snow, there is snow within driving distance. (Well, there was. The worsening drought means much less snow in the mountains.)
Yes, rents here are pretty rough, but a) it sounds like it shouldn't be too hard for you to find a decent-paying job, and b) the East Bay (that is, Berkeley and Oakland) are also pretty awesome places to live, and a bit cheaper, and close enough to SF that it's basically like living in Cambridge, so that's an option, too. Prepare yourself for not being able to buy a house for awhile, though.
You definitely don't have to be a tech millionaire to attract women (unless you're only interested in the type of woman who's only attracted to tech millionaires, but I'm assuming that's not the case). Supposedly there are more eligible men than eligible women in SF, but that's not really something most of the men I know see reflected in their everyday dating experiences--it seems to be neither easier nor harder to find a date here than anywhere else. And, yes, the atmosphere is overall friendlier, which might make it even easier to connect with someone here than in Boston.
I do want to emphasize that while the tech culture it sounds like you're envisioning absolutely does exist out here, and it's possible to become entrenched in it to the point that it's your entire day/week/life, it's only a fraction of what the Bay Area has to offer. Which is a good thing! If you're interested in tech and have big ideas and great skills you will find your people (and maybe your future business partners) here! But it doesn't have to be your whole life, you can connect with people and experience culture and opportunities outside of that, too.
posted by rhiannonstone at 9:49 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
The weather is certainly much, much nicer. :) I do not miss snow! If you find yourself missing snow, there is snow within driving distance. (Well, there was. The worsening drought means much less snow in the mountains.)
Yes, rents here are pretty rough, but a) it sounds like it shouldn't be too hard for you to find a decent-paying job, and b) the East Bay (that is, Berkeley and Oakland) are also pretty awesome places to live, and a bit cheaper, and close enough to SF that it's basically like living in Cambridge, so that's an option, too. Prepare yourself for not being able to buy a house for awhile, though.
You definitely don't have to be a tech millionaire to attract women (unless you're only interested in the type of woman who's only attracted to tech millionaires, but I'm assuming that's not the case). Supposedly there are more eligible men than eligible women in SF, but that's not really something most of the men I know see reflected in their everyday dating experiences--it seems to be neither easier nor harder to find a date here than anywhere else. And, yes, the atmosphere is overall friendlier, which might make it even easier to connect with someone here than in Boston.
I do want to emphasize that while the tech culture it sounds like you're envisioning absolutely does exist out here, and it's possible to become entrenched in it to the point that it's your entire day/week/life, it's only a fraction of what the Bay Area has to offer. Which is a good thing! If you're interested in tech and have big ideas and great skills you will find your people (and maybe your future business partners) here! But it doesn't have to be your whole life, you can connect with people and experience culture and opportunities outside of that, too.
posted by rhiannonstone at 9:49 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Family. As I age I miss being proximal to my family a lot more than I thought I would. You can keep in touch with friends and make new ones along your way but that's harder to do with family.
posted by sockermom at 10:45 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sockermom at 10:45 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've not been to SF but I did live in Boston for two very miserable years. You have some friends there so are not as isolated as I ended up being. But the expensiveness, the winters...
SF has to be better.
posted by mermaidcafe at 11:22 PM on April 30, 2015
SF has to be better.
posted by mermaidcafe at 11:22 PM on April 30, 2015
You'll be earning far more with the job than you have as a grad student, so you'll have funds for travel. I say stay in Boston.
posted by brujita at 12:10 AM on May 1, 2015
posted by brujita at 12:10 AM on May 1, 2015
Good Friends are friends no matter where you live but Good Family is nurtured by closeness.
If you go and don't like it, you can return. But if you only stay in Boston, you will never go anywhere.
posted by Thella at 12:21 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you go and don't like it, you can return. But if you only stay in Boston, you will never go anywhere.
posted by Thella at 12:21 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it would be hard to pick a worse time to move to San Francisco.
posted by en forme de poire at 1:26 AM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 1:26 AM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've lived in both the Bay Area and in Boston.
I'd vote Bay Area, but try to find work/housing in the East Bay. There are so many things to consider here, but I think a big one is that you're looking to settle down and have kids in the next few years. I think it is awesome for kids to be able to grow up close to extended family, and also a LOT easier on the parents to have that built in support system (friends are just not the same in terms of how much you can impose on them).
Also, dude, NO WINTER.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:16 AM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd vote Bay Area, but try to find work/housing in the East Bay. There are so many things to consider here, but I think a big one is that you're looking to settle down and have kids in the next few years. I think it is awesome for kids to be able to grow up close to extended family, and also a LOT easier on the parents to have that built in support system (friends are just not the same in terms of how much you can impose on them).
Also, dude, NO WINTER.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:16 AM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Totally apart from the objective factors about this or that city, on a general level and from my personal experience I can say that when you don't see your friends as often, even close ones, you will lose many of them permanently if you don't work hard at maintaining them. (Less true for life-long friends.) The same is not true for family--especially brothers!--they'll always be your brothers.
But you're also quite young and, being unattached, it'll be easy to make new friends should you move closer to family, especially since you're in the dating scene and will be going out, joining groups, etc. And you'll have your brothers' networks of friends to tap into; if you get along with your brothers, you'll likely get along with their friends.
Just something to think about.
posted by resurrexit at 7:32 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
But you're also quite young and, being unattached, it'll be easy to make new friends should you move closer to family, especially since you're in the dating scene and will be going out, joining groups, etc. And you'll have your brothers' networks of friends to tap into; if you get along with your brothers, you'll likely get along with their friends.
Just something to think about.
posted by resurrexit at 7:32 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, you don't say where your parents or extended family are--if you want to meet a girl and settle down, meeting one near your parents, brothers, or extended family is helpful if you want to have that resource (an invaluable one!!) as you begin a family.
Bay Area sounds like a no-brainer to me.
posted by resurrexit at 7:34 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Bay Area sounds like a no-brainer to me.
posted by resurrexit at 7:34 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Keep in mind that if your friends settle down over the next few years, there's a good chance the majority of them will move to the suburbs, have kids, and you'll rarely see or talk to them anymore anyway. YMMV but this seems to be how things go. I wouldn't stay in Boston just to stay friends with these particular people.
posted by sunflower16 at 8:06 AM on May 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by sunflower16 at 8:06 AM on May 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Now that my kids are grown, I can tell you that one of the regrets of my life is making the decision to live 1000 miles away from my family. All my nieces and nephews have very close relationships with their grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins, but my kids feel like they don't even know them. Even though we visited every year.
I didn't have any kids when I made the choice, and neither did my siblings, but now, if I had the choice to do over again, I would choose to live closer to family.
posted by CathyG at 8:24 AM on May 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I didn't have any kids when I made the choice, and neither did my siblings, but now, if I had the choice to do over again, I would choose to live closer to family.
posted by CathyG at 8:24 AM on May 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Move to SF. Here are my reasons:
1) Most people lose touch with most of their college/grad school friends anyway, even if they stay in one place. People are going to move on, especially at your age, which is when family formation really gets going. Lifestyles are going to change and people are going to move away anyhow. Meanwhile, the best friends will stay in touch with you no matter where you are.
2) You are young enough to easily make great new friends in a new city. You will be able to quickly establish a new friend network. 10 years from now, making new friends after a move will be much, much harder because people with families and serious career responsibilities simply are not able to make new-friending a priority. Also, dating prospects are far better in SF. It's just a far bigger population.
3) Family is irreplaceable and the time you spend together now is not something you can recapture later. You will have a different and better relationship with your family if you can live close enough to them that getting together is a low-stakes proposition.
4) A break point in education is an excellent time to move. Worse times to move: when someone in your family gets sick and needs you.
5) Winter. Seriously.
posted by Miko at 8:53 PM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
1) Most people lose touch with most of their college/grad school friends anyway, even if they stay in one place. People are going to move on, especially at your age, which is when family formation really gets going. Lifestyles are going to change and people are going to move away anyhow. Meanwhile, the best friends will stay in touch with you no matter where you are.
2) You are young enough to easily make great new friends in a new city. You will be able to quickly establish a new friend network. 10 years from now, making new friends after a move will be much, much harder because people with families and serious career responsibilities simply are not able to make new-friending a priority. Also, dating prospects are far better in SF. It's just a far bigger population.
3) Family is irreplaceable and the time you spend together now is not something you can recapture later. You will have a different and better relationship with your family if you can live close enough to them that getting together is a low-stakes proposition.
4) A break point in education is an excellent time to move. Worse times to move: when someone in your family gets sick and needs you.
5) Winter. Seriously.
posted by Miko at 8:53 PM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
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