How to deal with a family who disproves of the partner that you love?
April 28, 2015 8:50 PM Subscribe
I've seen questions like mine all over the internet. I've scoured the internet for endless hours in search of effective coping strategies, but every situation is unique. I'm hoping to find some valuable information for my own situation, which I fear may crumble if I do.
I'm a 22 year old female and my boyfriend is soon-to-be 38 in July. We met when I was 20 and he was 36; aside from the physical attraction (he doesn't look any older than 25), we immediately connected emotionally, mentally, through our family values & heritage, passions for health & fitness, and personal beliefs. He was smart enough to disclose his age on our first real date, and brave enough to admit he was recently divorced from a marriage that dissipated in under a year, and was a father to two children by women other than his ex-wife.
You don't have to tell me this situation sounds "bad"; my boyfriend has admitted multiple times he does not look appealing on paper. But after learning the finer details of his life situations- his first child at 21, after finding out his ex had kept her pregnancy a secret for almost 8 months & whom he immediately dropped out of college to care for; his second child at 29 with an ex girlfriend whom he housed for free after she had been evicted and refused to inform him of her inability to pay for birth control (which he gladly would have done had he known); and an ex-wife whom he married out of desperation to look and feel like "he finally had his life together" despite her manipulative and controlling ways and lack of affection or parenting toward his children- EVERY ONE of this statements verified by his mother. Despite these situations, my boyfriend does not hold grudges, and has a very amicable relationship with both of his son's mothers (he even proposed to both of them upon learning of their pregnancies in order to do what he thought was the right thing-both proposals denied). I know that entailed a ton of explanation, and though I am not expecting anyone to accept these situations as I have, I hope it provides a better understanding of who my boyfriend is. Sometimes wonderful people get caught up in difficult situations.
Despite learning all of this information on our very first date, my boyfriend and I have had an extraordinarily passionate relationship, and I am incredibly blessed to have found someone I am so compatible with.
My problem lies with my family. They refuse to meet him based on his "bad resume". They refuse to hear the explanations as I have pointed out above, and continuously tell me I am making a destructive decision that will ruin my relationship with them. They say things like "not understanding the damage that will occur in the long run", "being an irresponsible 22-year-old", "disgusting relationship", "predator and prey", "don't call him your boyfriend, he's a MAN", "we'll just wait this mistake out; I have confidence you'll do the right thing eventually". I have been enduring this torture almost daily for about a year. My family is incredibly important to me and I value their opinion, and while I know this is just a skewed display of love and concern, I cannot deny that their close-mindedness about my relationship has damaged our own relationship significantly.
I don't think I can adequately verbalize the love my boyfriend has for me. Words do not do it justice. It is genuine, tangible, and worth enduring the harsh words at home. He holds no grudges against my parents for their desire to keep him separate from their lives- although he is hurt by it, he is hopeful for the day he will be able to show my parents how much he loves me. I wholeheartedly believe this is the man I am destined to be with and spend the rest of my life with.
I will be graduating from college next month. Unfortunately, I will be earning a degree I do not plan on using, and would like to return to school to become a Doctor of Physical Therapy. The school I currently attend is developing a PT program that will be in effect in 2017. Initially, I had planned an obtaining my second bachelor's at my school until then to achieve my prerequisites, offering to fully support myself financially (an concept unheard of by my parents, who of course have given me incredible resistance against the idea). I am now considering completed my prerequisites at home so that I can work and save money until I am able to apply to the program, which will make my parents happy, but impose great strain on my relationship with my boyfriend. Either way, I will be returning home for some period of time, and am paralyzed by fear of what will happen with my relationship due to my family's objections. How do I deal?
I apologize for the length of this post. I appreciate any and all advice.
I'm a 22 year old female and my boyfriend is soon-to-be 38 in July. We met when I was 20 and he was 36; aside from the physical attraction (he doesn't look any older than 25), we immediately connected emotionally, mentally, through our family values & heritage, passions for health & fitness, and personal beliefs. He was smart enough to disclose his age on our first real date, and brave enough to admit he was recently divorced from a marriage that dissipated in under a year, and was a father to two children by women other than his ex-wife.
You don't have to tell me this situation sounds "bad"; my boyfriend has admitted multiple times he does not look appealing on paper. But after learning the finer details of his life situations- his first child at 21, after finding out his ex had kept her pregnancy a secret for almost 8 months & whom he immediately dropped out of college to care for; his second child at 29 with an ex girlfriend whom he housed for free after she had been evicted and refused to inform him of her inability to pay for birth control (which he gladly would have done had he known); and an ex-wife whom he married out of desperation to look and feel like "he finally had his life together" despite her manipulative and controlling ways and lack of affection or parenting toward his children- EVERY ONE of this statements verified by his mother. Despite these situations, my boyfriend does not hold grudges, and has a very amicable relationship with both of his son's mothers (he even proposed to both of them upon learning of their pregnancies in order to do what he thought was the right thing-both proposals denied). I know that entailed a ton of explanation, and though I am not expecting anyone to accept these situations as I have, I hope it provides a better understanding of who my boyfriend is. Sometimes wonderful people get caught up in difficult situations.
Despite learning all of this information on our very first date, my boyfriend and I have had an extraordinarily passionate relationship, and I am incredibly blessed to have found someone I am so compatible with.
My problem lies with my family. They refuse to meet him based on his "bad resume". They refuse to hear the explanations as I have pointed out above, and continuously tell me I am making a destructive decision that will ruin my relationship with them. They say things like "not understanding the damage that will occur in the long run", "being an irresponsible 22-year-old", "disgusting relationship", "predator and prey", "don't call him your boyfriend, he's a MAN", "we'll just wait this mistake out; I have confidence you'll do the right thing eventually". I have been enduring this torture almost daily for about a year. My family is incredibly important to me and I value their opinion, and while I know this is just a skewed display of love and concern, I cannot deny that their close-mindedness about my relationship has damaged our own relationship significantly.
I don't think I can adequately verbalize the love my boyfriend has for me. Words do not do it justice. It is genuine, tangible, and worth enduring the harsh words at home. He holds no grudges against my parents for their desire to keep him separate from their lives- although he is hurt by it, he is hopeful for the day he will be able to show my parents how much he loves me. I wholeheartedly believe this is the man I am destined to be with and spend the rest of my life with.
I will be graduating from college next month. Unfortunately, I will be earning a degree I do not plan on using, and would like to return to school to become a Doctor of Physical Therapy. The school I currently attend is developing a PT program that will be in effect in 2017. Initially, I had planned an obtaining my second bachelor's at my school until then to achieve my prerequisites, offering to fully support myself financially (an concept unheard of by my parents, who of course have given me incredible resistance against the idea). I am now considering completed my prerequisites at home so that I can work and save money until I am able to apply to the program, which will make my parents happy, but impose great strain on my relationship with my boyfriend. Either way, I will be returning home for some period of time, and am paralyzed by fear of what will happen with my relationship due to my family's objections. How do I deal?
I apologize for the length of this post. I appreciate any and all advice.
I think being financially independent of your parents and not living with them would give you a greater chance of being treated as an adult and having your agency respected.
posted by saucysault at 9:17 PM on April 28, 2015 [40 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 9:17 PM on April 28, 2015 [40 favorites]
Quite simply, you should not move home for any substantial period of time. If what you've said about daily complaints about him at a distance are torture, being physically proximate to them will be worse and I suspect your relationship with both your partner and your family will be damaged. Move out, support yourself, live life on your own terms. If your family wants to badmouth him when you make short visits or call/IM/etc., politely disengage to the point of hanging up or walking away if necessary.
He may or may not be a mistake but if you're independent, he can be *your* decision. Talk with them about him when they talk to you as an adult rather than a child, but do listen. I *had* a relationship at your age that I would have described in the same terms.
Why not find a school where you can start your desired program immediately?
posted by Candleman at 9:26 PM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
He may or may not be a mistake but if you're independent, he can be *your* decision. Talk with them about him when they talk to you as an adult rather than a child, but do listen. I *had* a relationship at your age that I would have described in the same terms.
Why not find a school where you can start your desired program immediately?
posted by Candleman at 9:26 PM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was TOTALLY set to tell you not to pay any attention to your family since you are an adult, and then I read this:
"Sometimes wonderful people get caught up in difficult situations."
This statement is demonstrably not true in the instances you outlined., Believing this statement holds you and him back from required self-reflection, hard self-work, and eventually, happiness and stability. Furthermore, there is ultimately only one reason that a man with this history is attracted to a young woman in her very early 20's and also 16 years his junior. Only one. Only one.
He needs someone with far less life experience than himself. I can't diagnose his reasons, I can guess it is either important for him to have someone he is not challenged by or scared of, and/or, he needs someone he can easily have the upper hand with. Maybe a little of both.
I was you once. It was really difficult overcoming all of my stuff and achieving happiness and stability. By the skin of my teeth at 38 years old, I made the first major step towards a healthy relationship. (hint: once you achieve one, you have to work on growing together and keeping things healthy.)
Coincidentally, just tonight over dinner, I was telling a good friend how my version of this guy from my 20's still pains me, that the fallout from that relationship troubles me even today, and how I wish wish wish I had skipped the experience. Some things really do have consequences.
This relationship for you is not without serious consequences. My advice is that you should use birth control and keep your eyes open. This guy is not ideal. You are young. Try not to do anything that can't be undone. You will outgrow this person soon enough, yet you are already cultivating emotional scars. Don't do anything that makes the damage worse, like making disengaging from him when you outgrow him very difficult (marriage/divorce) or impossible (having his child, or becoming a "mom" to his other children.)
Your family is worried about you for good reason. I hope you come through this OK. It's not what you think it is. I'm sorry.
posted by jbenben at 9:38 PM on April 28, 2015 [75 favorites]
"Sometimes wonderful people get caught up in difficult situations."
This statement is demonstrably not true in the instances you outlined., Believing this statement holds you and him back from required self-reflection, hard self-work, and eventually, happiness and stability. Furthermore, there is ultimately only one reason that a man with this history is attracted to a young woman in her very early 20's and also 16 years his junior. Only one. Only one.
He needs someone with far less life experience than himself. I can't diagnose his reasons, I can guess it is either important for him to have someone he is not challenged by or scared of, and/or, he needs someone he can easily have the upper hand with. Maybe a little of both.
I was you once. It was really difficult overcoming all of my stuff and achieving happiness and stability. By the skin of my teeth at 38 years old, I made the first major step towards a healthy relationship. (hint: once you achieve one, you have to work on growing together and keeping things healthy.)
Coincidentally, just tonight over dinner, I was telling a good friend how my version of this guy from my 20's still pains me, that the fallout from that relationship troubles me even today, and how I wish wish wish I had skipped the experience. Some things really do have consequences.
This relationship for you is not without serious consequences. My advice is that you should use birth control and keep your eyes open. This guy is not ideal. You are young. Try not to do anything that can't be undone. You will outgrow this person soon enough, yet you are already cultivating emotional scars. Don't do anything that makes the damage worse, like making disengaging from him when you outgrow him very difficult (marriage/divorce) or impossible (having his child, or becoming a "mom" to his other children.)
Your family is worried about you for good reason. I hope you come through this OK. It's not what you think it is. I'm sorry.
posted by jbenben at 9:38 PM on April 28, 2015 [75 favorites]
After college there's a fork in the road. You can either go out into the world as a confident, capable adult, willing to take on responsibility and take care of herself. Or you can become financially and emotionally entangled with your parents, entering a prolonged adolescence.
If you act like an adult, your parents won't question your life choices. That means getting a job and working hard, excelling in your classes, getting an apartment and a car and serving your community in every way possible. That means inviting your family over for Thanksgiving and volunteering at the homeless shelter. That means treating your boyfriend as a true partner who is in a grown-up relationship that is mutually beneficial, but may not last forever. That means treating your parents as equals. If you act like a mature and confident young adult, your parents will never judge your choices.
But if you move back home and assume the same role in the family structure that you had in high school, they will believe that they have the right to make decisions for you. It's easier to do this in the short run but much worse in the long run. I know people in their forties whose parents still treat them like misbehaving teenagers.
And at all costs don't become dependent on your boyfriend. You need to develop skills for living independently, getting a job, getting an apartment, having a happy social life, and taking care of the thousands of little emergencies that come up in grown-up life. I'm sure he'd be happy to take care of all that stuff for you, but don't let him -- even if you're with him forever, those are important skills to have for yourself.
posted by miyabo at 9:46 PM on April 28, 2015 [28 favorites]
If you act like an adult, your parents won't question your life choices. That means getting a job and working hard, excelling in your classes, getting an apartment and a car and serving your community in every way possible. That means inviting your family over for Thanksgiving and volunteering at the homeless shelter. That means treating your boyfriend as a true partner who is in a grown-up relationship that is mutually beneficial, but may not last forever. That means treating your parents as equals. If you act like a mature and confident young adult, your parents will never judge your choices.
But if you move back home and assume the same role in the family structure that you had in high school, they will believe that they have the right to make decisions for you. It's easier to do this in the short run but much worse in the long run. I know people in their forties whose parents still treat them like misbehaving teenagers.
And at all costs don't become dependent on your boyfriend. You need to develop skills for living independently, getting a job, getting an apartment, having a happy social life, and taking care of the thousands of little emergencies that come up in grown-up life. I'm sure he'd be happy to take care of all that stuff for you, but don't let him -- even if you're with him forever, those are important skills to have for yourself.
posted by miyabo at 9:46 PM on April 28, 2015 [28 favorites]
Try not to do anything that can't be undone.
Yes. Try not to do anything that can't be undone. So, in this situation, I would not throw a grenade on my relationship with my parents, were I you. Not that you're planning on doing that, but sometimes these things implode on themselves.
I would also not move home and work to become financially and emotionally independent from your parents. Why do your parents know these things about your boyfriend? Why did you share that information with them? These things are not really their business, especially not before they have met. I am not blaming you here - I used to share all sorts of things with my parents, until I realized that what I shared was often used as ammunition to question my choices and agency.
I am glad to see that you don't seem to be interested in having your boyfriend help you out here by, say, moving in with him. That's a good impetus. You can make it on your own, without moving back with your parents and without moving in with your boyfriend after you graduate. Get a roommate or two. Get a job. See your boyfriend. See your parents. Don't introduce them. Don't engage with your parents when they try to talk to you about your relationship. See how things go. Take care of yourself.
Graduating from college is scary. You're spreading your wings and starting to fly - and it sounds like there is a cozy nest waiting for you, should you choose to land in it, in the home that you grew up in. Resist that - not because your parents don't approve of your boyfriend, but because this is the time where you can break away and really get to know yourself and become your own person. The world lies in front of you. You have a lot of time. Start looking for a job now. You can go back to school in a few years, and you'll be independent and you will be able to take out your own loans, or perhaps your job will pay for continuing education - many do. You likely won't be able to work in your chosen field now (physical therapy), but you will have freedom and independence.
Good luck.
posted by sockermom at 9:51 PM on April 28, 2015 [12 favorites]
Yes. Try not to do anything that can't be undone. So, in this situation, I would not throw a grenade on my relationship with my parents, were I you. Not that you're planning on doing that, but sometimes these things implode on themselves.
I would also not move home and work to become financially and emotionally independent from your parents. Why do your parents know these things about your boyfriend? Why did you share that information with them? These things are not really their business, especially not before they have met. I am not blaming you here - I used to share all sorts of things with my parents, until I realized that what I shared was often used as ammunition to question my choices and agency.
I am glad to see that you don't seem to be interested in having your boyfriend help you out here by, say, moving in with him. That's a good impetus. You can make it on your own, without moving back with your parents and without moving in with your boyfriend after you graduate. Get a roommate or two. Get a job. See your boyfriend. See your parents. Don't introduce them. Don't engage with your parents when they try to talk to you about your relationship. See how things go. Take care of yourself.
Graduating from college is scary. You're spreading your wings and starting to fly - and it sounds like there is a cozy nest waiting for you, should you choose to land in it, in the home that you grew up in. Resist that - not because your parents don't approve of your boyfriend, but because this is the time where you can break away and really get to know yourself and become your own person. The world lies in front of you. You have a lot of time. Start looking for a job now. You can go back to school in a few years, and you'll be independent and you will be able to take out your own loans, or perhaps your job will pay for continuing education - many do. You likely won't be able to work in your chosen field now (physical therapy), but you will have freedom and independence.
Good luck.
posted by sockermom at 9:51 PM on April 28, 2015 [12 favorites]
You went to a lot of effort up there to try and persuade those of us reading your question that your BF is a good guy. But you know what's sad? Despite all that effort, I am almost positive you're being taken in by a con man who is going to hurt you badly if you don't heed your family's advice and get out now. I have been you. I also once said, "I don't think I can adequately verbalize the love my boyfriend has for me. Words do not do it justice" to someone in the same dramatic, overindulgent way you did. 5 years later I see that and want to cry because all it does is remind me of how ignorant and naive I was, and I have paid a heavy price for staying with a man like your boyfriend. He got me pregnant too, and when I miscarried, and my body became damaged, he dumped me and told me I'd ruined his life. Yes, the love my boyfriend had for me was great. Until it wasn't.
My advice to you is this: imagine how sublime it would be to be with someone your family adores, someone who doesn't come with this baggage, someone you don't have to persuade other people to like, trust, or accept. That person you're thinking of isn't the guy you're with now. The only way to deal with this is to start thinking more critically about your boyfriend's background instead of taking everything he says at face value like he's the most saintly wronged person on the planet. Beware.
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:53 PM on April 28, 2015 [37 favorites]
My advice to you is this: imagine how sublime it would be to be with someone your family adores, someone who doesn't come with this baggage, someone you don't have to persuade other people to like, trust, or accept. That person you're thinking of isn't the guy you're with now. The only way to deal with this is to start thinking more critically about your boyfriend's background instead of taking everything he says at face value like he's the most saintly wronged person on the planet. Beware.
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:53 PM on April 28, 2015 [37 favorites]
As to your main question, if you don't want to hear the criticism from your parents, stop taking their money and be an adult.
".... offering to fully support myself financially (an concept unheard of by my parents, who of course have given me incredible resistance against the idea)."
You don't "offer" to take care of yourself financially if you are an adult - it's what you do every day, forever. Because you are an adult.
Your parents are telling you what to do because you are not self-sufficient. Also, they love you and don't want to see anything bad happen to you (and I don't either.) Your parents sound like adults. Your boyfriend sounds like a drama llama, so a non-adult.
Seriously, though. Look at what you wrote. By definition, you're dependent. I'm not sure what you are asking for here because you can't demand to live your own life without interference if you are not funding your own life. By definition, you haven't had to deal with serious life consequences because your parents mitigate consequences for you. They fund your lifestyle. They're afraid you'll make a mistake here that will cost them for years and put them into financial and emotional proximity with someone they would not enjoy. Again, your parents sound like adults. Your boyfriend sounds like a drama llama, so a non-adult. They don't want you with a non-adult. I don't blame them.
I find your indignation understandable, but misplaced. Enjoy this relationship, but keep your eyes open. If you want go to war with your folks over this relationship (not a great idea) fund your own life and lifestyle. Then, they don't get to weigh in repeatedly on how you live your life or who you are in a relationship with.
posted by jbenben at 9:55 PM on April 28, 2015 [10 favorites]
".... offering to fully support myself financially (an concept unheard of by my parents, who of course have given me incredible resistance against the idea)."
You don't "offer" to take care of yourself financially if you are an adult - it's what you do every day, forever. Because you are an adult.
Your parents are telling you what to do because you are not self-sufficient. Also, they love you and don't want to see anything bad happen to you (and I don't either.) Your parents sound like adults. Your boyfriend sounds like a drama llama, so a non-adult.
Seriously, though. Look at what you wrote. By definition, you're dependent. I'm not sure what you are asking for here because you can't demand to live your own life without interference if you are not funding your own life. By definition, you haven't had to deal with serious life consequences because your parents mitigate consequences for you. They fund your lifestyle. They're afraid you'll make a mistake here that will cost them for years and put them into financial and emotional proximity with someone they would not enjoy. Again, your parents sound like adults. Your boyfriend sounds like a drama llama, so a non-adult. They don't want you with a non-adult. I don't blame them.
I find your indignation understandable, but misplaced. Enjoy this relationship, but keep your eyes open. If you want go to war with your folks over this relationship (not a great idea) fund your own life and lifestyle. Then, they don't get to weigh in repeatedly on how you live your life or who you are in a relationship with.
posted by jbenben at 9:55 PM on April 28, 2015 [10 favorites]
Also, regarding that physical therapy program you're thinking about? Do it, even if it causes a strain in your relationship. If your boyfriend were really the right person for you, he'd be able to endure it with you like a champ. My guess is he'll use it as an opportunity to start emotionally blackmailing you, but maybe he'll prove us all wrong and actually be the saint you claim he is. Invest in your future by doing that program and see what happens. It'll be a win-win either way, right?
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:56 PM on April 28, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:56 PM on April 28, 2015 [13 favorites]
First, confirm yourself as an adult by becoming financially independent of your parents (and for the love of god, don't move back in with them).
Then, use whatever your new adult perspective is to decide what to do about your boyfriend, since only your own judgement matters, once you are an independent person.
posted by 256 at 10:12 PM on April 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
Then, use whatever your new adult perspective is to decide what to do about your boyfriend, since only your own judgement matters, once you are an independent person.
posted by 256 at 10:12 PM on April 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
The thing is, not to sound harsh, but his excuses work on you because you have rose-colored glasses and you are in love with the guy. As a person on the internet reading this question after drinking a couple Belgian-style ales, I have to be honest: this guy does sound sketchy and this is probably exactly how your family sees it. When a situation looks bad, I've never heard of a man saying he was the one who made bad decisions and his ex was the innocent bystander -- it was always that the ex (or his current girlfriend, as the case may be) is some sort of manipulative liar who tricked him. Always. There's always some bullshit excuse. And there is something to be said about the company a person keeps, and this guy has been in certain kinds of relationships with certain kinds of women. Your family is not going to be moved by his excuses you've detailed here, or his "explanations" as you call them. Your family is either going to hate the fact that you are dating him and keep it to themselves, or they are going to hate that you are dating him and they will tell you. Them thinking he is a great guy and this is a great relationship is simply not going to happen. Part of me thinks you kind of need to accept this reality.
Part of me also thinks you care too much about this relationship because, well, the most likely scenario is you are not destined to spend the rest of your life with this man, and you should really focus on school and your career. I think I read that studies show the average person falls in love seven times over the course of their lifetime. This sounds like time No. 1 or maybe No. 2 for you. Given this guy's past, and where you are in your life right now, I would roll the dice and wait for the next time you fall in love. I realize you won't consider this advice because you do truly believe this man is your soul mate, but I would urge you to put your schooling and career first anyway. Do what you need to do to get the degree and career that will serve you for the rest of your life.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:15 PM on April 28, 2015 [33 favorites]
Part of me also thinks you care too much about this relationship because, well, the most likely scenario is you are not destined to spend the rest of your life with this man, and you should really focus on school and your career. I think I read that studies show the average person falls in love seven times over the course of their lifetime. This sounds like time No. 1 or maybe No. 2 for you. Given this guy's past, and where you are in your life right now, I would roll the dice and wait for the next time you fall in love. I realize you won't consider this advice because you do truly believe this man is your soul mate, but I would urge you to put your schooling and career first anyway. Do what you need to do to get the degree and career that will serve you for the rest of your life.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:15 PM on April 28, 2015 [33 favorites]
Your parents are making a very bad tactical error. The stronger they snort and turn their noses up at your boyfriend the more you will dig your heels in. Even if you start feeling cracks and thinking you might want to end it, the thought of the smug look on their faces will cause you to work hard to fight against those feelings. And look at how much effort you put in to convince us what a stand up guy your boyfriend is, doing your best to polish up his rather scary dating resume! Every time you tell that story you're also going to be convincing yourself, even if that's not your intention. Every person you tell all that too will be one more person you will be working to prove you were right to. Every post written here telling you he's not as great as you believe he is is one more reason to stick with him.
So tell that to your parents. Tell them the more they sneer at your relationship, the harder it would be for you to end it if you ever decided to.
Tell them to ask me how I know.
posted by Dynex at 10:19 PM on April 28, 2015 [26 favorites]
So tell that to your parents. Tell them the more they sneer at your relationship, the harder it would be for you to end it if you ever decided to.
Tell them to ask me how I know.
posted by Dynex at 10:19 PM on April 28, 2015 [26 favorites]
I'm going to add to the chorus of folks who are saying that it's probably time to go ahead and move on from relying on your parents. There's no shame in it, but making the investment now to become financially, emotionally, and in all other ways self-sufficient is very hard.... but will serve you well the rest of your life, no matter what happens with your S.O.
Your parents may not like this life decision, just as they may not like your boyfriend, but the great thing about making it is that you will never have to care more than you want to about what your parents think again. Imagine the wonderful freedom that comes with being able to say, "Mom, I love you and I respect your opinion, but I'm also asking that you respect mine. You know that X person is a friend/partner/coworker/whatever, and I refuse to discuss this any longer," and having a statement like that have no repercussions other than your parents' ability to guilt-trip you. Much of the fear gets taken out of the equation. Plus, you will learn a lot about yourself, and maybe you will also be able to reach a new level of maturity and mutual support and growth with your partner. (Just be sure not to rely on him either-- you always want to know how to support yourself, even if you absolutely trust the person you're with.)
The decision is of course up to you, but I would wager that, in the scales of going-back-to-school or becoming-a-confident-and-capable-individual-with-their-own-life, the latter side weighs more heavily than you give it credit for.
posted by WidgetAlley at 11:22 PM on April 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your parents may not like this life decision, just as they may not like your boyfriend, but the great thing about making it is that you will never have to care more than you want to about what your parents think again. Imagine the wonderful freedom that comes with being able to say, "Mom, I love you and I respect your opinion, but I'm also asking that you respect mine. You know that X person is a friend/partner/coworker/whatever, and I refuse to discuss this any longer," and having a statement like that have no repercussions other than your parents' ability to guilt-trip you. Much of the fear gets taken out of the equation. Plus, you will learn a lot about yourself, and maybe you will also be able to reach a new level of maturity and mutual support and growth with your partner. (Just be sure not to rely on him either-- you always want to know how to support yourself, even if you absolutely trust the person you're with.)
The decision is of course up to you, but I would wager that, in the scales of going-back-to-school or becoming-a-confident-and-capable-individual-with-their-own-life, the latter side weighs more heavily than you give it credit for.
posted by WidgetAlley at 11:22 PM on April 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
his second child at 29 with an ex girlfriend whom he housed for free after she had been evicted and refused to inform him of her inability to pay for birth control (which he gladly would have done had he known)
SO HE ALREADY HAD ONE KID and just continued to sleep with women without using condoms? And he just assumed they were using birth control? In what universe is that the woman's sole responsibility? I mean, congratulations to him for being "glad" to pay for (I assume) oral contraception BUT WHY THE HELL WAS HE FUCKING AN EX-GIRLFRIEND WITHOUT PROTECTION IN THE FIRST PLACE? Do you use condoms? Have you been tested? Are you okay with being the third woman this guy has a kid with before he breaks it off and starts telling people you are crazy/homeless/refused to inform him you were ovulating?
You are an adult and you can make your own decisions. But please, in all things, strive toward building your life around yourself as a whole, worthy, wonderful person instead of building it around a guy. Especially someone who comes with high drama and red flags.This guy is temporary. Your life is yours forever.
posted by kate blank at 11:37 PM on April 28, 2015 [56 favorites]
SO HE ALREADY HAD ONE KID and just continued to sleep with women without using condoms? And he just assumed they were using birth control? In what universe is that the woman's sole responsibility? I mean, congratulations to him for being "glad" to pay for (I assume) oral contraception BUT WHY THE HELL WAS HE FUCKING AN EX-GIRLFRIEND WITHOUT PROTECTION IN THE FIRST PLACE? Do you use condoms? Have you been tested? Are you okay with being the third woman this guy has a kid with before he breaks it off and starts telling people you are crazy/homeless/refused to inform him you were ovulating?
You are an adult and you can make your own decisions. But please, in all things, strive toward building your life around yourself as a whole, worthy, wonderful person instead of building it around a guy. Especially someone who comes with high drama and red flags.This guy is temporary. Your life is yours forever.
posted by kate blank at 11:37 PM on April 28, 2015 [56 favorites]
A neighbor of mine lived with his 2nd wife and baby in an apartment across from a building I was renovating. The high point of my day was talking with him, unwinding from the day.
His wife emptied their savings/checking and left him.
After several months we started dating. He asked me to marry on our 3rd date.
His wife contacted him wanting to get back together; getting her address he filed for divorce the next business day.
We've been together now for 12 years.
It's the best relationship I've ever had, he says the same.
We didn't marry directly after our third date but we have never been apart. [we are now long married.]
My father and his wife forbade my relationship. I'd never received financial (since ~19yoa) or emotional support from anyone but myself.
That's the only difference in your story and mine.
Take your time, watch, wait and enjoy. You'll know soon. Make sure you're in a place to make your own choices. Were I you I'd take my parents financial support but not at the price of my life choices. Be careful and follow what you find to be true.
posted by Twist at 12:51 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
His wife emptied their savings/checking and left him.
After several months we started dating. He asked me to marry on our 3rd date.
His wife contacted him wanting to get back together; getting her address he filed for divorce the next business day.
We've been together now for 12 years.
It's the best relationship I've ever had, he says the same.
We didn't marry directly after our third date but we have never been apart. [we are now long married.]
My father and his wife forbade my relationship. I'd never received financial (since ~19yoa) or emotional support from anyone but myself.
That's the only difference in your story and mine.
Take your time, watch, wait and enjoy. You'll know soon. Make sure you're in a place to make your own choices. Were I you I'd take my parents financial support but not at the price of my life choices. Be careful and follow what you find to be true.
posted by Twist at 12:51 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
In case I wasn't clear in my post above, I think the ideal scenario is for you to dump your sketchy boyfriend and then figure out your career, which may include living with your parents so you can continue your education. I lived at home after college because even though I had a job and was progressing in my career, it really wasn't enough to live on my own in a decent situation yet. People live with their parents longer these days, and living with one's parents after graduating is not a huge deal. (Although I did pay for my own schooling via student loans.) I actually don't think being supported by your family is the problem is and I personally don't oppose it. You can't make your family okay with your boyfriend because, well, he sounds like he could be a scum bag -- I think your question is really not about making your family accept him as much as it is about how to make a good decision for your career or education.
And that's where the problem is. You sound like you don't know what you want or what you are doing. You want to randomly go back to school for a while until a new degree becomes available in 2017, and then go to school for 3-4 years for that. It sort of feels like you are putting off making a decision and becoming an adult. I don't think you can just keep going to school and taking on more debt/costs in this manner. Why not try to get a job in whatever your degree will be in? You don't say what degree you'll get but: School isn't free, and you may end up with the same earning potential and job security if you spent 3-4 working up the ladder in the career your degree is in rather than spending that time in school, without all the extra debt for school.
On top of it, you are dating this guy who doesn't sound like he is at all enabling you to make good decisions about your future and is severely clouding your judgement. He sounds like the kind of person who uses people. But hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe somehow he got so unlucky that it turns out every single one of his exes lied to him and were horrible people. Maybe it is true that his exes were always the problem and he was always just the unlucky sincere guy. But what sounds more likely is that is not really characterizing his past relationships accurately, he makes really bad decisions, and he has impacted all these women in lasting ways through getting them pregnant or divorcing them. This pattern suggests you will be the next woman that he is telling some other woman was crazy and manipulated him. I mean, he has two kids by two different women -- is he even in his kids' lives? I suspect your parents aren't thrilled with this relationship, but also want to see you take your future seriously if they will support you. Right now, due to your relationship with this man, your judgement is probably suspect in their eyes. Is it possible this plan you've hatched to spend another 5+ years as a college student is something to try to keep your relationship with this guy the same? [On preview: Twist's story sounds different. Not every older guy is a scum bag. Neither is every guy who cheats. Neither is every guy who had a crazy ex. The important thing here is the pattern described. I am worried for you, OP.]
Only you can decide what to do and what is relevant to your situation, but I will just add: Please use birth control. Please do not move in with this guy. Please don't sacrifice a career or your education for this guy.
posted by AppleTurnover at 1:21 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
And that's where the problem is. You sound like you don't know what you want or what you are doing. You want to randomly go back to school for a while until a new degree becomes available in 2017, and then go to school for 3-4 years for that. It sort of feels like you are putting off making a decision and becoming an adult. I don't think you can just keep going to school and taking on more debt/costs in this manner. Why not try to get a job in whatever your degree will be in? You don't say what degree you'll get but: School isn't free, and you may end up with the same earning potential and job security if you spent 3-4 working up the ladder in the career your degree is in rather than spending that time in school, without all the extra debt for school.
On top of it, you are dating this guy who doesn't sound like he is at all enabling you to make good decisions about your future and is severely clouding your judgement. He sounds like the kind of person who uses people. But hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe somehow he got so unlucky that it turns out every single one of his exes lied to him and were horrible people. Maybe it is true that his exes were always the problem and he was always just the unlucky sincere guy. But what sounds more likely is that is not really characterizing his past relationships accurately, he makes really bad decisions, and he has impacted all these women in lasting ways through getting them pregnant or divorcing them. This pattern suggests you will be the next woman that he is telling some other woman was crazy and manipulated him. I mean, he has two kids by two different women -- is he even in his kids' lives? I suspect your parents aren't thrilled with this relationship, but also want to see you take your future seriously if they will support you. Right now, due to your relationship with this man, your judgement is probably suspect in their eyes. Is it possible this plan you've hatched to spend another 5+ years as a college student is something to try to keep your relationship with this guy the same? [On preview: Twist's story sounds different. Not every older guy is a scum bag. Neither is every guy who cheats. Neither is every guy who had a crazy ex. The important thing here is the pattern described. I am worried for you, OP.]
Only you can decide what to do and what is relevant to your situation, but I will just add: Please use birth control. Please do not move in with this guy. Please don't sacrifice a career or your education for this guy.
posted by AppleTurnover at 1:21 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
Some truths:
1. He was not "smart" to disclose his age in the first date. He was merely not immoral enough not to. This is standard, not "above and beyond."
2. He was not "brave" to disclose the existence of his children. He was merely not a scumbag enough not to. Facing the truth of having children is not "brave" for a 38 year old man.
3. His mother does not count as an independent source to verify his stories. That's actually almost funny-can you think of anyone LESS unbiased than someone's mother in thinking they are attractive, good, etcetera? There are mothers saying their sons on death row were framed, honey.
4. Someone getting along with your family and you theirs is a criteria for relationships that becomes more important as you get older.
5. He has not had a sad life. He's had a great life- kids and lots of girlfriends and a mother who loves him and a new young girlfriend. Do not feel sorry for this "brave, tragic" man.
6. "Crazy" ex-girlfriends are a mythological concept. Especially when your child is in their primary care. Especially when you have three of them. Odds of "craziness" are just not that high- or you have a singular ability to pick 'em and never learn. Either way the common denominator is him.
I think you will get farther with your family if you make this less about "my one true brave prince." That type of talk is something you almost always hear from young girls, regardless of the merits of the guy in question. Treat and talk about this guy like a regular guy. Tell your family you know he has flaws but he makes you happy for now. Don't go into how you want to marry him and they have to get along with him- cross that bridge when you come to it. But yeah, I think if you just admit some of their concerns are well-founded and agree with them, but keep seeing him anyway, they may back down. They are concerned because you are making this seem grand and epic rather than mundane and real, as all relationships are. I would be concerned if you were talking about him the way you have here, too.
posted by quincunx at 1:30 AM on April 29, 2015 [39 favorites]
1. He was not "smart" to disclose his age in the first date. He was merely not immoral enough not to. This is standard, not "above and beyond."
2. He was not "brave" to disclose the existence of his children. He was merely not a scumbag enough not to. Facing the truth of having children is not "brave" for a 38 year old man.
3. His mother does not count as an independent source to verify his stories. That's actually almost funny-can you think of anyone LESS unbiased than someone's mother in thinking they are attractive, good, etcetera? There are mothers saying their sons on death row were framed, honey.
4. Someone getting along with your family and you theirs is a criteria for relationships that becomes more important as you get older.
5. He has not had a sad life. He's had a great life- kids and lots of girlfriends and a mother who loves him and a new young girlfriend. Do not feel sorry for this "brave, tragic" man.
6. "Crazy" ex-girlfriends are a mythological concept. Especially when your child is in their primary care. Especially when you have three of them. Odds of "craziness" are just not that high- or you have a singular ability to pick 'em and never learn. Either way the common denominator is him.
I think you will get farther with your family if you make this less about "my one true brave prince." That type of talk is something you almost always hear from young girls, regardless of the merits of the guy in question. Treat and talk about this guy like a regular guy. Tell your family you know he has flaws but he makes you happy for now. Don't go into how you want to marry him and they have to get along with him- cross that bridge when you come to it. But yeah, I think if you just admit some of their concerns are well-founded and agree with them, but keep seeing him anyway, they may back down. They are concerned because you are making this seem grand and epic rather than mundane and real, as all relationships are. I would be concerned if you were talking about him the way you have here, too.
posted by quincunx at 1:30 AM on April 29, 2015 [39 favorites]
Someone I know (let's call her 'L') met a slightly older man ('D') who she felt was the love of her life. They were inseparable, and she was utterly convinced that this was the man she'd be with forever. He already had several children from a previous marriage to a woman who (he told us) was an incredibly messed-up drug user who was borderline abusive to the children. He seemed like a really gentle, sympathetic guy, so she trusted his account of his previous marriage and how it had fallen apart. Anyway, L and D moved in together, married, had a child of their own, and they even tried to gain custody of his other children. A few of L's family and friends were a bit skeptical about this man - D was a little odd at times, and seemed prone to what I can only call 'tantrums', but we were happy that L was so happy. They were together for about six years, during which time he became increasingly unpleasant and unpredictable.
Fast-forward to today and they've been going through a really acrimonious separation/divorce for a while now. D moved out a couple of years ago. L is now friends with D's ex-wife, who turns out to have been a perfectly good mother all long. D is making life really hard for L, refusing to adequately play his part in supporting their child. L still has a relationship with D's kids, even after D is (mostly) out of the picture - their children are half-siblings, after all. D quickly moved on to the next woman; no doubt he's sold the new woman on a story where he was the innocent party in all that went wrong.
I'm in no way implying that your relationship is like this, or will turn out badly. Sometimes all the warning signals turn out to be false alarms. My reading of your situation is that things could go either way with this boyfriend. I think you'd be foolish not to be very, very cautious. Create a life for yourself that allows you independence from him, but still allows for a relationship for as long as you want it. Make sure that, if for some reason it all turns bad, you can extract yourself quickly and completely. Take the precautions necessary to ensure that you don't 'accidentally' have a child with this man. Make an effort to get to know his friends and family a little, and take seriously any warnings they may try to give you.
I really hope this works out well for you, though; I hope he is what he wants you to believe he is.
posted by pipeski at 2:16 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Fast-forward to today and they've been going through a really acrimonious separation/divorce for a while now. D moved out a couple of years ago. L is now friends with D's ex-wife, who turns out to have been a perfectly good mother all long. D is making life really hard for L, refusing to adequately play his part in supporting their child. L still has a relationship with D's kids, even after D is (mostly) out of the picture - their children are half-siblings, after all. D quickly moved on to the next woman; no doubt he's sold the new woman on a story where he was the innocent party in all that went wrong.
I'm in no way implying that your relationship is like this, or will turn out badly. Sometimes all the warning signals turn out to be false alarms. My reading of your situation is that things could go either way with this boyfriend. I think you'd be foolish not to be very, very cautious. Create a life for yourself that allows you independence from him, but still allows for a relationship for as long as you want it. Make sure that, if for some reason it all turns bad, you can extract yourself quickly and completely. Take the precautions necessary to ensure that you don't 'accidentally' have a child with this man. Make an effort to get to know his friends and family a little, and take seriously any warnings they may try to give you.
I really hope this works out well for you, though; I hope he is what he wants you to believe he is.
posted by pipeski at 2:16 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
I can imagine that he's not a bad person. Seems like he means to do well, and lord knows lots of us have made mistakes, I know I have. But people are challenging you fairly on a number of points. (The sloppiness about kids being the main one. One unexpected baby is one thing, but after the whole drama of dropping out of college to support it, 99.99% of men would have acted to avoid a repeat.)
Here's what I want to pick up on:
ex-wife whom he married out of desperation to look and feel like "he finally had his life together" despite her manipulative and controlling ways and lack of affection or parenting toward his children
To rephrase: He was feeling bad about himself and his life, and he thought marrying someone he knew was manipulative and controlling and a bad parent was the way to fix it.
Think about that, carefully. Does that make sense to you? This happened right before he met you, when he was 35. Did he get his life together between the end of his marriage and meeting you? Is it possible he's trying to fix his life again, through you, the way he tried to with his ex? How do you feel about that? Do you want that on your shoulders? What else is he doing to improve himself? Is he taking responsibility for that?
35 is a lot of years. It's a lot of time for things to happen, and it's a lot of time for people to try to make sense of them. If he's not close to at least starting to make sense of things now, who knows when that will happen, if ever. In the meantime, he's going to want to lean on the strength of your youth and brightness, and not much will be left for you. Which is a damn shame.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:17 AM on April 29, 2015 [10 favorites]
Here's what I want to pick up on:
ex-wife whom he married out of desperation to look and feel like "he finally had his life together" despite her manipulative and controlling ways and lack of affection or parenting toward his children
To rephrase: He was feeling bad about himself and his life, and he thought marrying someone he knew was manipulative and controlling and a bad parent was the way to fix it.
Think about that, carefully. Does that make sense to you? This happened right before he met you, when he was 35. Did he get his life together between the end of his marriage and meeting you? Is it possible he's trying to fix his life again, through you, the way he tried to with his ex? How do you feel about that? Do you want that on your shoulders? What else is he doing to improve himself? Is he taking responsibility for that?
35 is a lot of years. It's a lot of time for things to happen, and it's a lot of time for people to try to make sense of them. If he's not close to at least starting to make sense of things now, who knows when that will happen, if ever. In the meantime, he's going to want to lean on the strength of your youth and brightness, and not much will be left for you. Which is a damn shame.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:17 AM on April 29, 2015 [10 favorites]
Age is one thing. My sister married a man 14 years older than her the August after she graduated college. They are happily married and have been going on five years. They dated 3 years before they got married.
BUUUUUT......he didn't have any of the other baggage. And the truth is, we on the internet have no way of knowing if the events he's described are true. It's understandable your family is concerned. Yet, they need to let you make your own mistakes, if this turns out to be a mistake. It may not be a mistake, though, in which case you'll get a lovely I-told-you-so if you do end up happily ever after.
It's fine to enjoy your relationship, but enjoy your relationship for what it is and if it starts to change, reexamine it. Don't move in with him. Go to school. Be independent.
And don't burn bridges with your family.
posted by zizzle at 4:53 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
BUUUUUT......he didn't have any of the other baggage. And the truth is, we on the internet have no way of knowing if the events he's described are true. It's understandable your family is concerned. Yet, they need to let you make your own mistakes, if this turns out to be a mistake. It may not be a mistake, though, in which case you'll get a lovely I-told-you-so if you do end up happily ever after.
It's fine to enjoy your relationship, but enjoy your relationship for what it is and if it starts to change, reexamine it. Don't move in with him. Go to school. Be independent.
And don't burn bridges with your family.
posted by zizzle at 4:53 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
jbenben above is harsh, but right: don't let this guy get you pregnant. Avoid anything that is going to result in a long-term commitment to this guy. Who - good guy or not - is carrying an awful lot of baggage with him.
Most people, when they graduate college, are looking forward to starting out in a new, better life. It sounds like you've got things lined up so that you'll be starting out with all kinds of drama and ill-will.
Something I did not see mentioned: what kind of job does this guy have? You two have been seeing each other for a couple of years: what kind of financial support has he been providing to the relationship? I ask because one sign that Something Is Not Right is when Mr. Wonderful is relying on his girlfriend for support. If mom and dad have been helping you get through college and they suspect that some of the money is going towards the support of your boyfriend - that would certainly explain some of their unhappiness in the matter.
And finally, to quote moms everywhere: "it's as easy to love a man whose never had a child as it is to love a man who has children with one or more of his exes."
You can do whatever you want, but seriously: don't get into any kind of long-term commitment with this guy. 'Cause I read your letter and the first thing I'm thinking is that it's 2017 and this guy is having coffee with a 20yo girl and 'fessing up to the three children he has by crazy ex-girlfriends who refused to marry him when he tried to do the right thing etc.
posted by doctor tough love at 5:42 AM on April 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
Most people, when they graduate college, are looking forward to starting out in a new, better life. It sounds like you've got things lined up so that you'll be starting out with all kinds of drama and ill-will.
Something I did not see mentioned: what kind of job does this guy have? You two have been seeing each other for a couple of years: what kind of financial support has he been providing to the relationship? I ask because one sign that Something Is Not Right is when Mr. Wonderful is relying on his girlfriend for support. If mom and dad have been helping you get through college and they suspect that some of the money is going towards the support of your boyfriend - that would certainly explain some of their unhappiness in the matter.
And finally, to quote moms everywhere: "it's as easy to love a man whose never had a child as it is to love a man who has children with one or more of his exes."
You can do whatever you want, but seriously: don't get into any kind of long-term commitment with this guy. 'Cause I read your letter and the first thing I'm thinking is that it's 2017 and this guy is having coffee with a 20yo girl and 'fessing up to the three children he has by crazy ex-girlfriends who refused to marry him when he tried to do the right thing etc.
posted by doctor tough love at 5:42 AM on April 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
This is exactly the kind of man that women in their 30s refuse to date.
When your 30s arrive, you will understand why other women of his own age won't date him.
You're going to get hurt sooner or later. Hopefully you won't be giving birth alone or estranged from your family. Both are real possibilities.
Don't let any time lapse in school. If you want an advanced degree get it now, life gets more complicated as you get older and its harder to go to school.
posted by littlewater at 6:22 AM on April 29, 2015 [10 favorites]
When your 30s arrive, you will understand why other women of his own age won't date him.
You're going to get hurt sooner or later. Hopefully you won't be giving birth alone or estranged from your family. Both are real possibilities.
Don't let any time lapse in school. If you want an advanced degree get it now, life gets more complicated as you get older and its harder to go to school.
posted by littlewater at 6:22 AM on April 29, 2015 [10 favorites]
I also think this dude sounds like someone who is maybe fine for you now, but who will not grow with you as you mature. Where do you want to be in sixteen years? Say this guy died in the meantime or something bad happened to your relationship. Would you be the kind of person who wanted to date college boys at 38?
But okay, I'm going to assume that you are right here and that this guy is done with questionable life choices and that he's a stellar partner. I want to pick at the part where you mentioned offering to be financially independent from your parents. It may not be as simple as offering--as you pointed out yourself when you said the concept was "unheard of" to them!
My parents constantly criticized my life choices too, and in college every time we argued about anything or the topic of their financial support came up they would tell me I "shouldn't rely on handouts" and that they "would not support me forever!" They would act like I was constantly begging for money, even when I acted in ways to minimize my reliance on them in college. And they never let me forget I depended on them for money. Every decision I made which they did not approve of got a lecture about how I needed to be more self-reliant and I couldn't expect handouts from them forever.
When I graduated and started earning a salary and moved a thousand miles away, suddenly they wanted me to make more financially expensive decisions than I would have made for myself. When I was looking for a place to live in my new city, for example, I wanted to rent a cheap apartment in a working-class part of town which would have me within a 40-minute bus ride of campus. My parents tried to argue me out of it and get me to take a lease at a place which was $200/month more expensive but which looked nicer, and tried to get me to seriously consider this by offering to pay a portion of my rent every month as a Christmas gift. Or when my car was totaled in an accident and I wanted to buy a sensible used car as a replacement, my parents insisted I should buy new so the car wouldn't have been "mistreated" by a previous owner. When I said "No, that isn't worth the $2000 difference in price for me" my dad offered to pay the difference so I would make the decision he wanted me to make--and then lectured me on the way to the dealership about how I shouldn't expect free handouts from my parents all the time.
My point is that I think you absolutely need to be able to get financial independence first if you want to make your own decisions, but I also think you need to be prepared to seriously push for it. Even if your parents say the money they give you is no strings attached, don't listen--if they're financially supporting you, I'm pretty sure they think they still have the right to tell you what you should and should not do with your life based on that money. If you want to go back and get a second degree, do it--but do it on your own dime. For god's sake, do not move in with them to save money. Money isn't worth giving your parents the leverage to tell you what life choices you should make.
I think this dude is less of a central issue than your parents not seeing you as an adult who can make her own decisions. They're going to be around forever, even if he's not, and it's to your benefit to start setting the tone of your adult relationship with them now--and the thing is, as long as you depend on their money to live you aren't an independent adult, and they will continue seeing you as an adolescent. Find out how to stand on your own two feet financially before you go back to school. Figure out for yourself what's worth paying extra money for and what isn't. Find a standard of living you're comfortable with, even if it's not what they want, and be polite about saying "Yes, but I am twenty-two now and I've graduated and it's time I started paying my own way." The extra leverage will give you so much more freedom to do what you choose with your own life.
posted by sciatrix at 6:32 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
But okay, I'm going to assume that you are right here and that this guy is done with questionable life choices and that he's a stellar partner. I want to pick at the part where you mentioned offering to be financially independent from your parents. It may not be as simple as offering--as you pointed out yourself when you said the concept was "unheard of" to them!
My parents constantly criticized my life choices too, and in college every time we argued about anything or the topic of their financial support came up they would tell me I "shouldn't rely on handouts" and that they "would not support me forever!" They would act like I was constantly begging for money, even when I acted in ways to minimize my reliance on them in college. And they never let me forget I depended on them for money. Every decision I made which they did not approve of got a lecture about how I needed to be more self-reliant and I couldn't expect handouts from them forever.
When I graduated and started earning a salary and moved a thousand miles away, suddenly they wanted me to make more financially expensive decisions than I would have made for myself. When I was looking for a place to live in my new city, for example, I wanted to rent a cheap apartment in a working-class part of town which would have me within a 40-minute bus ride of campus. My parents tried to argue me out of it and get me to take a lease at a place which was $200/month more expensive but which looked nicer, and tried to get me to seriously consider this by offering to pay a portion of my rent every month as a Christmas gift. Or when my car was totaled in an accident and I wanted to buy a sensible used car as a replacement, my parents insisted I should buy new so the car wouldn't have been "mistreated" by a previous owner. When I said "No, that isn't worth the $2000 difference in price for me" my dad offered to pay the difference so I would make the decision he wanted me to make--and then lectured me on the way to the dealership about how I shouldn't expect free handouts from my parents all the time.
My point is that I think you absolutely need to be able to get financial independence first if you want to make your own decisions, but I also think you need to be prepared to seriously push for it. Even if your parents say the money they give you is no strings attached, don't listen--if they're financially supporting you, I'm pretty sure they think they still have the right to tell you what you should and should not do with your life based on that money. If you want to go back and get a second degree, do it--but do it on your own dime. For god's sake, do not move in with them to save money. Money isn't worth giving your parents the leverage to tell you what life choices you should make.
I think this dude is less of a central issue than your parents not seeing you as an adult who can make her own decisions. They're going to be around forever, even if he's not, and it's to your benefit to start setting the tone of your adult relationship with them now--and the thing is, as long as you depend on their money to live you aren't an independent adult, and they will continue seeing you as an adolescent. Find out how to stand on your own two feet financially before you go back to school. Figure out for yourself what's worth paying extra money for and what isn't. Find a standard of living you're comfortable with, even if it's not what they want, and be polite about saying "Yes, but I am twenty-two now and I've graduated and it's time I started paying my own way." The extra leverage will give you so much more freedom to do what you choose with your own life.
posted by sciatrix at 6:32 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
I got married at about your age, with about that age difference. A lot of people were also telling me not to do it-- some of the loudest warnings coming from people who had married at my age. What I do want to add to comments along those lines is: where you are now, 16 years is a huge age difference and it's giving him a real boost in terms of perceived maturity, wisdom and sophistication relative to you. By the time I was 30 and my husband in his 40s, the gap had narrowed in that sense. He was still a really interesting person and I have mostly good feelings about him to this day, but I could see that I'd been attracted to him largely because of his age, not in spite of it. All those books he'd read; all the languages he spoke. My father urged me to read those books for myself, learn those languages for myself and indeed I was partly marrying the person I wanted to become.
You may be thinking that doesn't sound so bad, but my point is that your view of him is not accurate in terms of what kind of person he is relative to you. The age difference is a huge part of your relationship right now. jbenben is right; for whatever reason, he wants to be with someone who is much younger and who doesn't view him so critically. And who has all the dynamism and potential of a 22-year-old but does not realize the power she has. That would be you!
You know what, be with him or don't be with him, but don't burn all your bridges right now. Also, think about seeing a smart woman therapist, one who's old enough to have been through some of this stuff, and talking about all this.
posted by BibiRose at 6:43 AM on April 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
You may be thinking that doesn't sound so bad, but my point is that your view of him is not accurate in terms of what kind of person he is relative to you. The age difference is a huge part of your relationship right now. jbenben is right; for whatever reason, he wants to be with someone who is much younger and who doesn't view him so critically. And who has all the dynamism and potential of a 22-year-old but does not realize the power she has. That would be you!
You know what, be with him or don't be with him, but don't burn all your bridges right now. Also, think about seeing a smart woman therapist, one who's old enough to have been through some of this stuff, and talking about all this.
posted by BibiRose at 6:43 AM on April 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
Sometimes wonderful people get caught up in difficult situations.
I have a bunch of failed relationships under my belt and bad situations I have to own up to (no kids, though). The reason for them was not because I was merely "caught up in difficult situations" but because I had poor judgment, untreated anxiety issues, and a lot of baggage I wasn't dealing with.
When you're young, you and your friends go through crap that hits you through no fault of your own. You pick yourself up and move on. As you get older, you start to notice that some people keep getting hit with that same crap-- the person who always had a sociopathic boss, always ends up with a psycho girlfriend/boyfriend. Has several times they need a place to crash after some messed up situation with their landlord or roommates. And then you start to realize that it's not a coincidence that they keep getting caught up in "difficult situations" like this-- the problem is them. And that, I think, is why he is interested in a woman with less life experience than he has-- because someone at your age is likely to treat him like another 22 year old who has hit a few bumps in the road, whereas someone with some more life experience sees him as a person with a pattern of bad judgment.
My advice, if I could go back and talk to my 22 year old self, is not to try to get the degree AND the relationship AND settle in the place you want to live all at the same time. Concentrate on getting your academic and professional life in order, and the rest with follow, rather than trying to acquire the out-of-left-field relationship and the degree and trying to spin multiple orthogonal plates.
posted by bright colored sock puppet at 6:51 AM on April 29, 2015 [15 favorites]
I have a bunch of failed relationships under my belt and bad situations I have to own up to (no kids, though). The reason for them was not because I was merely "caught up in difficult situations" but because I had poor judgment, untreated anxiety issues, and a lot of baggage I wasn't dealing with.
When you're young, you and your friends go through crap that hits you through no fault of your own. You pick yourself up and move on. As you get older, you start to notice that some people keep getting hit with that same crap-- the person who always had a sociopathic boss, always ends up with a psycho girlfriend/boyfriend. Has several times they need a place to crash after some messed up situation with their landlord or roommates. And then you start to realize that it's not a coincidence that they keep getting caught up in "difficult situations" like this-- the problem is them. And that, I think, is why he is interested in a woman with less life experience than he has-- because someone at your age is likely to treat him like another 22 year old who has hit a few bumps in the road, whereas someone with some more life experience sees him as a person with a pattern of bad judgment.
My advice, if I could go back and talk to my 22 year old self, is not to try to get the degree AND the relationship AND settle in the place you want to live all at the same time. Concentrate on getting your academic and professional life in order, and the rest with follow, rather than trying to acquire the out-of-left-field relationship and the degree and trying to spin multiple orthogonal plates.
posted by bright colored sock puppet at 6:51 AM on April 29, 2015 [15 favorites]
You could maybe also think about why the two women who had a child for him didn't want to marry him in spite of the fact he proposed? Just see if you can work that out in your head. Two women refused him (that you know about) and how long was the third living with him?
Have your fling and don't get pregnant. Get your degree and get a job, so you can save while you sort out what or if to study next.
posted by glasseyes at 6:53 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
Have your fling and don't get pregnant. Get your degree and get a job, so you can save while you sort out what or if to study next.
posted by glasseyes at 6:53 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
A lot of people are telling you your boyfriend is a bad guy. I personally think that's neither here nor there, and at best probably has you going 'lalala, I'm not listening' right now.
The important thing here is to hold your own. Don't do anything that could result in your being dependent on your boyfriend. Be extra careful with birth control. Make sure you have your own stream of income and don't make any moves that weaken your financial position in relation to him.
If you focus on holding your own, you will be fine. You will be fine if your boyfriend is as great as you think he is, and you will be fine if your boyfriend is as awful as your parents say he is, and you'll be fine if the truth is somewhere in between.
This is a precarious time in your life so remember: You come first, second and third. Then nothing, then you again, and your boyfriend should be about ninth.
p.s. Pay attention to those who are pointing out how he blamed the women for his relationship history. In particular, the bit where he could perfectly well have taken responsibility for birth control on his own initiative, but didn't. That really isn't something that just happened to him, even though he prefers to present it that way. And I say this, myself, as a grossly irresponsible overgrown adolescent who is a disgrace by any reasonable adult standards.
posted by tel3path at 7:03 AM on April 29, 2015 [16 favorites]
The important thing here is to hold your own. Don't do anything that could result in your being dependent on your boyfriend. Be extra careful with birth control. Make sure you have your own stream of income and don't make any moves that weaken your financial position in relation to him.
If you focus on holding your own, you will be fine. You will be fine if your boyfriend is as great as you think he is, and you will be fine if your boyfriend is as awful as your parents say he is, and you'll be fine if the truth is somewhere in between.
This is a precarious time in your life so remember: You come first, second and third. Then nothing, then you again, and your boyfriend should be about ninth.
p.s. Pay attention to those who are pointing out how he blamed the women for his relationship history. In particular, the bit where he could perfectly well have taken responsibility for birth control on his own initiative, but didn't. That really isn't something that just happened to him, even though he prefers to present it that way. And I say this, myself, as a grossly irresponsible overgrown adolescent who is a disgrace by any reasonable adult standards.
posted by tel3path at 7:03 AM on April 29, 2015 [16 favorites]
I don't care what your boyfriend is like, your family is being unreasonable. If I wanted to convince my daughter that her boyfriend was a bad fit for her and/or that he was unreliable and that she could definitely do better, I would not refuse to meet him based on his "resume". They need to meet him, let him try to impress them, see what he's like in person and in real time, see how who he is now relates to who he was during those past actions, and pass their judgement on a real person and not a "resume".
The discussion you should be having with your parents is not whether or not he's a good guy for you, but whether or not they're being unreasonable by refusing to meet him. They're allowed to dislike him, but disapproving of him by proxy takes away a lot of the meaning that their opinion could have, and refusing to meet him is treating you like a child. You could maybe point out to them how their actions are hurting your relationship with them. You could also tell them, if it's true, that you would take their advice a lot more seriously if you felt they were fully informed.
posted by aimedwander at 7:29 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
The discussion you should be having with your parents is not whether or not he's a good guy for you, but whether or not they're being unreasonable by refusing to meet him. They're allowed to dislike him, but disapproving of him by proxy takes away a lot of the meaning that their opinion could have, and refusing to meet him is treating you like a child. You could maybe point out to them how their actions are hurting your relationship with them. You could also tell them, if it's true, that you would take their advice a lot more seriously if you felt they were fully informed.
posted by aimedwander at 7:29 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
an ex-wife whom he married out of desperation to look and feel like "he finally had his life together"
he even proposed to both of them upon learning of their pregnancies in order to do what he thought was the right thing
So basically he's proposed to 3 women for crappy reasons. What happens when he proposes to you? Why will it be "for real" this time?
And if it doesn't work out, how will he justify it? What will he tell the next person? "I did it to make her family happy" ?
Now as for your original question, what I would say is try to have an adult conversation with your parents. Tell them "when you insult my boyfriend, when you constantly nag me about this relationship, I don't hear you. Furthermore, it just makes me feel less close to you and more angry. I want to listen to your concerns but it's hard to do so when I'm feeling harped on every single day." If you can get some space that way, then do start to listen to their concerns. They really do have your best interests at heart and want to see that you're making a decision with your head and your heart.
The adult thing to do is to say: I see that he has a poor track record, and I am watching him to see how he's handling things. I see how he handles his children and ex-partners and I'm ok with it. I understand you don't like him, but he is still invited to [Christmas, Weddings, whatever]. I am taking steps to make sure my future is on track in the direction I want and nothing will compromise my education.
(Don't say: but you don't understaaaaaaand! he's AMAZING!!!! That's a teenager's response.)
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:03 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
he even proposed to both of them upon learning of their pregnancies in order to do what he thought was the right thing
So basically he's proposed to 3 women for crappy reasons. What happens when he proposes to you? Why will it be "for real" this time?
And if it doesn't work out, how will he justify it? What will he tell the next person? "I did it to make her family happy" ?
Now as for your original question, what I would say is try to have an adult conversation with your parents. Tell them "when you insult my boyfriend, when you constantly nag me about this relationship, I don't hear you. Furthermore, it just makes me feel less close to you and more angry. I want to listen to your concerns but it's hard to do so when I'm feeling harped on every single day." If you can get some space that way, then do start to listen to their concerns. They really do have your best interests at heart and want to see that you're making a decision with your head and your heart.
The adult thing to do is to say: I see that he has a poor track record, and I am watching him to see how he's handling things. I see how he handles his children and ex-partners and I'm ok with it. I understand you don't like him, but he is still invited to [Christmas, Weddings, whatever]. I am taking steps to make sure my future is on track in the direction I want and nothing will compromise my education.
(Don't say: but you don't understaaaaaaand! he's AMAZING!!!! That's a teenager's response.)
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:03 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
Is this guy a deadbeat dad? Let me guess, both of his psycho exes prevent him from seeing the children even though he really really wants to? Does he pay child support? Have you met any of the exes or children? The guy sounds so sketchy, not just because of his past, but because it seems like he's always casting himself as the victim, which is like a neon sign flashing BEWARE over his head.
These are the steps you might want to consider:
1. Get on a very reliable form of birth control like, yesterday. An IUD last several years and there's no running out of money for prescriptions or forgetting to take pills once it's installed.
2. Do not move in with him or allow him to move in with you. Do not share financials with him.
3. Use that degree you are getting to support yourself free of your parents' influence until you can go back to school in 2017.
4. Do not alienate your parents. When they begin to criticize your BF, just tell them you're happy with the relationship and change the subject. Don't campaign for them to accept him. Tell them you understand that it's not the choice they would have made.
5. Therapy, so you can have appropriate boundaries with all the parties involved.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:28 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
These are the steps you might want to consider:
1. Get on a very reliable form of birth control like, yesterday. An IUD last several years and there's no running out of money for prescriptions or forgetting to take pills once it's installed.
2. Do not move in with him or allow him to move in with you. Do not share financials with him.
3. Use that degree you are getting to support yourself free of your parents' influence until you can go back to school in 2017.
4. Do not alienate your parents. When they begin to criticize your BF, just tell them you're happy with the relationship and change the subject. Don't campaign for them to accept him. Tell them you understand that it's not the choice they would have made.
5. Therapy, so you can have appropriate boundaries with all the parties involved.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:28 AM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
This guy is telling you that in every serious relationship he's been in, one of the couple was a clusterfuck of issues. Odds are good that his current relationship is the same, if he isn't the problem then he's clearly got a track record of picking women with massive issues. How do you think you fit in to that? Are your issues "being a kid out of her depth" or something else? If he's attracted to problems, then will he (possibly unconsciously) encourage you to have problems? If you turn into a competent adult will he still want to be in this relationship?
posted by the agents of KAOS at 8:57 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 8:57 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think the only thing that will make your family accept him is time, lots of time passing with no drama or more bad judgement. Not even the hint of a backslide on his part, because he already had his three strikes in the ballgame.
I also want to caution you in assigning him such a passive role in ending up in "difficult situations." He was very much the driver of the bus to fuck-upville in his life. He had unprotected sex. He dropped out. He proposed marriage out of desperation.
You are financially dependant on your parents at a time when you would probably prefer to be independant, and that might just not be immediately feasible. So your parents have a bit of puppet strings on you and anything they say about not liking your boyfriend will only add to the pressure stifling you right now to figure out life.
So I suggest that you talk to some friends your age, classmates, and ask what they really think of your boyfriend, and listen to them because they have a lot less skin in the game than your parents. If they also think he is an irresponsible creeper, listen to them and get out. Also, it you don't have any friends your age, get out because that would have manipulation written all over it.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:03 AM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I also want to caution you in assigning him such a passive role in ending up in "difficult situations." He was very much the driver of the bus to fuck-upville in his life. He had unprotected sex. He dropped out. He proposed marriage out of desperation.
You are financially dependant on your parents at a time when you would probably prefer to be independant, and that might just not be immediately feasible. So your parents have a bit of puppet strings on you and anything they say about not liking your boyfriend will only add to the pressure stifling you right now to figure out life.
So I suggest that you talk to some friends your age, classmates, and ask what they really think of your boyfriend, and listen to them because they have a lot less skin in the game than your parents. If they also think he is an irresponsible creeper, listen to them and get out. Also, it you don't have any friends your age, get out because that would have manipulation written all over it.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:03 AM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Get an IUD and pursue a career and independent living to secure your own future without dependency on either a father or a husband (being a woman of leisure just isn't realistic in today's economy, and particularly not with a man who's got multiple children he should be paying enthusiastic child support to, as well as saving for their educations).
Live as an adult. Continue seeing him for as long as that makes sense in your life - your actual real life that has rent in it.
"Passion" is code for amazing sex and lots of drama. It is not a building block of a solid relationship.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:05 AM on April 29, 2015 [12 favorites]
Live as an adult. Continue seeing him for as long as that makes sense in your life - your actual real life that has rent in it.
"Passion" is code for amazing sex and lots of drama. It is not a building block of a solid relationship.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:05 AM on April 29, 2015 [12 favorites]
Obviously I think everyone here will be coming from their own - or seeing someone else's - experience. However, you'll note that most people have had negative experiences with people they deem as similar to your description of your boyfriend.
I don't want to pile on here, so I hope you just hear all of these responses, including mine, with your best interest at heart. I'm about your age, (25) though I've been married for 3 years. My ex though, oh boy. He didn't look good on paper either. He was 4 years older than me, so an almost 21 year old dating a 17 year old. Let me tell you, that's a pretty big difference too. And wow, all his exes were crazy too! And he tried to do so many nice, romantic things for them. Funny how he didn't do those romantic things for me. Funny how he wanted to marry me after a month. I stuck around with that guy for 2 years and it nearly destroyed me.
The thing is, when someone doesn't look good on paper, more often than not, they're actually not that good. Look, 38 is pretty up there. I agree that he should be in charge or reproduction as well and getting TWO people pregnant is irresponsible.
But, you didn't ask about what we think about your boyfriend. You asked about how to deal with your parents. Look, I get it. My family and friends didn't like my ex, for good reason. Again, my advice will be reflecting what I experienced. But I agree, why do they know all these "bad on paper" things about your ex? Why did you tell them?
Thing 1: One thing about being an adult and having your parents respect your decisions - even if they don't agree - is to act like a fellow adult. Would your mom introduce her new friend by first saying "Well she's divorced and she's had a drinking problem in the past, but here's my new friend Sue!" You'd probably say "Mom! I'm not sure you should hang out with Sue!" BUT, if you just met Sue, and she was a wonderful person, you'd then be more understanding if you found out later about past issues. You'd be able to see that she turned her life around.
Now, you can't UNDO that you told them these things about your boyfriend, but you CAN stop telling them more things. Let them judge him on his actions. (And... sorry, but I think his actions - even his current ones - don't bode well for him or the relationship.)
Thing 2: Being more independent. When I was your age, I had already lived on my own with roommates, and had then moved in with my husband (boyfriend at the time.) I DON'T think you should live with your boyfriend, especially since it doesn't seem you've been more independent before. And I'm the MOST introverted and change-avoidant person, so living on my own was a big, scary, step. I was still in college so I did get support from my family, and that's an option while still being more independent and living on your own with roommates or something.
Then, you'll be able to get some perspective on life and experience, and your parents will start treating you more like an adult.
Thing 3: If you want to be taken more seriously, you need to grow up a bit emotionally. Sorry that's tough to swallow, but wallowing and saying "But my parents don't like my boyfriend!" is showing that you haven't truly become your own person. And that's TOTALLY different from saying "Screw you, parents, I don't care." It more so is coming from a place of "Well I guess we agree to disagree, parents, I'm making my own choices, now let's go grab lunch." Sometimes you have to be the grown up one and not feed into the drama.
Thing 4: Sorry, again, though I think your parents are totally going about this wrong, I have to agree that this situation doesn't sound great. Which is why I agree with others to start to gain your own independence and perspective. Right now it's very "By boyfriend or my family" but not quite about what YOU want for your life and career. Figure that out first. And please be responsible about birth control.
Some of the best advice from my dad, is to find your own path (career goals, family goals, etc.), then you'll find someone who can share that path. With this age difference, it's hard to see that you'll be on the same life path. It doesn't seem like he can share the life path that you'd want to be on while launching your career and life.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:13 AM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't want to pile on here, so I hope you just hear all of these responses, including mine, with your best interest at heart. I'm about your age, (25) though I've been married for 3 years. My ex though, oh boy. He didn't look good on paper either. He was 4 years older than me, so an almost 21 year old dating a 17 year old. Let me tell you, that's a pretty big difference too. And wow, all his exes were crazy too! And he tried to do so many nice, romantic things for them. Funny how he didn't do those romantic things for me. Funny how he wanted to marry me after a month. I stuck around with that guy for 2 years and it nearly destroyed me.
The thing is, when someone doesn't look good on paper, more often than not, they're actually not that good. Look, 38 is pretty up there. I agree that he should be in charge or reproduction as well and getting TWO people pregnant is irresponsible.
But, you didn't ask about what we think about your boyfriend. You asked about how to deal with your parents. Look, I get it. My family and friends didn't like my ex, for good reason. Again, my advice will be reflecting what I experienced. But I agree, why do they know all these "bad on paper" things about your ex? Why did you tell them?
Thing 1: One thing about being an adult and having your parents respect your decisions - even if they don't agree - is to act like a fellow adult. Would your mom introduce her new friend by first saying "Well she's divorced and she's had a drinking problem in the past, but here's my new friend Sue!" You'd probably say "Mom! I'm not sure you should hang out with Sue!" BUT, if you just met Sue, and she was a wonderful person, you'd then be more understanding if you found out later about past issues. You'd be able to see that she turned her life around.
Now, you can't UNDO that you told them these things about your boyfriend, but you CAN stop telling them more things. Let them judge him on his actions. (And... sorry, but I think his actions - even his current ones - don't bode well for him or the relationship.)
Thing 2: Being more independent. When I was your age, I had already lived on my own with roommates, and had then moved in with my husband (boyfriend at the time.) I DON'T think you should live with your boyfriend, especially since it doesn't seem you've been more independent before. And I'm the MOST introverted and change-avoidant person, so living on my own was a big, scary, step. I was still in college so I did get support from my family, and that's an option while still being more independent and living on your own with roommates or something.
Then, you'll be able to get some perspective on life and experience, and your parents will start treating you more like an adult.
Thing 3: If you want to be taken more seriously, you need to grow up a bit emotionally. Sorry that's tough to swallow, but wallowing and saying "But my parents don't like my boyfriend!" is showing that you haven't truly become your own person. And that's TOTALLY different from saying "Screw you, parents, I don't care." It more so is coming from a place of "Well I guess we agree to disagree, parents, I'm making my own choices, now let's go grab lunch." Sometimes you have to be the grown up one and not feed into the drama.
Thing 4: Sorry, again, though I think your parents are totally going about this wrong, I have to agree that this situation doesn't sound great. Which is why I agree with others to start to gain your own independence and perspective. Right now it's very "By boyfriend or my family" but not quite about what YOU want for your life and career. Figure that out first. And please be responsible about birth control.
Some of the best advice from my dad, is to find your own path (career goals, family goals, etc.), then you'll find someone who can share that path. With this age difference, it's hard to see that you'll be on the same life path. It doesn't seem like he can share the life path that you'd want to be on while launching your career and life.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:13 AM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm only a few years older than you and, man, can I tell you that you will change so much over the next few years. I was a completely different person at 24 than I was at 22. And at 24 I had some big regrets about the loser I got involved with when I was 22. When you're in love with someone, it's very easy to give them the benefit of the doubt. Even if they don't deserve it.
I have serious reservations about a guy in his late 30s dating a woman in her early 20s. I have reservations about a guy who has children with two different women, because he didn't use condoms and was relying on the woman to use HBC. I have reservations about a guy who would get married and then separated in the space of a year, all because he was trying to make himself feel better. All these things put together lead to massive red flags.
Please do not let your relationship with this guy fuck up your future. Finish your schooling. Get into the workforce as soon as possible. If it means living with your family, then you'll just have to adapt to that. Go on dates with your boyfriend a couple of times a week and don't rub your relationship in your parents' face. If you're still together in a few years, then maybe your parents will come around. But, look, you still have so much growing to do, I'd be surprised if you were still together then.
And, yeah, use two forms of birth control, because goddamn.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 11:35 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
I have serious reservations about a guy in his late 30s dating a woman in her early 20s. I have reservations about a guy who has children with two different women, because he didn't use condoms and was relying on the woman to use HBC. I have reservations about a guy who would get married and then separated in the space of a year, all because he was trying to make himself feel better. All these things put together lead to massive red flags.
Please do not let your relationship with this guy fuck up your future. Finish your schooling. Get into the workforce as soon as possible. If it means living with your family, then you'll just have to adapt to that. Go on dates with your boyfriend a couple of times a week and don't rub your relationship in your parents' face. If you're still together in a few years, then maybe your parents will come around. But, look, you still have so much growing to do, I'd be surprised if you were still together then.
And, yeah, use two forms of birth control, because goddamn.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 11:35 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
SO HE ALREADY HAD ONE KID and just continued to sleep with women without using condoms? And he just assumed they were using birth control?
I'm willing to believe your boyfriend is not a bad person. I am not willing to believe he is not very, very, very dumb. He's definitely one or the other.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 11:58 AM on April 29, 2015 [16 favorites]
I'm willing to believe your boyfriend is not a bad person. I am not willing to believe he is not very, very, very dumb. He's definitely one or the other.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 11:58 AM on April 29, 2015 [16 favorites]
Becoming independent will allow you to make the choices you want to make. Be careful about taking out student loans as they can become a new and different sort of master. I urge you to do some research into your proposed future career. How much can you expect your starting salary to be? How much will you have to borrow to complete your degrees? What will your SL payments be? Your independence is so precious, whether it be independence from overbearing parents (yours do sound a bit too involved in their adult child's life) independence from your partner who may or may not turn out to be a scumbag (in my opinion, sorry to have to say this, it looks like the odds are 95% scumbag 4% former scumbag now trying to reform, and 1% the angel you believe him to be), or independence from crushing debt. Life is ALWAYS going to be a series of hard choices and none of them EVER makes everything perfect. Its one trade off after another out here. Make the best choices you can at the moment, always keeping in mind that the goal is to act to protect, respect, and love yourself first. The Internet can offer you advice but it will all come through the lenses of each individual's private experiences. You are the one who really has your own best interests at heart no matter what anyone else may say at various times in your life. Good luck!
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:24 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:24 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think some of the other commenter have made some very valid points, so I'll rehash this quickly.
1. Your boyfriend is a grown man wh has mage some boyish decisions. . .I think that's what probably scare your parents and reasonably should. He did get 2 women pregnant. By 29 he should have known to use protection. He proposed out of desperation, dropped out of school and wanted to marry a manipulative woman to make himself feel better. He doesn't seem like a bad guy but he has poor decision making skills which is what you'll get if you stay with him.
2. Im a little curious as to why you have a degree you're not going to use? School is expensive and you hardly ever hear if people spending lots of time and money to get a degree so they can do it all over and get another one in a different field. It's one thing if it was a master's but you want a 2nd bachelor's? I could be off base as to the circumstances but this makes me question your judgment as well and your future plans. Young very young so it's a natural thing that most people go through but I bring it up because it seems likes there's a pattern of rushed poorly thought out thinking . I know that comes across as harsh which isn't my intent but I did want to bring it up as something to think about.
Now about your question. If you want to stay with your boyfriend move out. I don't think it'd be a bad thing to do but for the love of god get an IUD or nexplanon...like now. Get it even if you don't stay together, its good to have your bases covered. When your in love with someone starting a family seems so romantic and it's easy for his previous situation to repeat itself. Don't move in with the boyfriend just be independent and manage your finances indecent as well. Also, you never said anything about relationship with the kids? People with kids are a package deal, are you ready to be a parent yet?
I really don't see your parents coming around , so the best you can do is to move out and then you don't have to deal with it if you don't want to but be aware it may continue to damage your relationship with them.
I wish you luck with your future career And all you pursue. Based off your description, I don't think this is the right relationship for you but I don't think you have any intention of leaving him so just keep your eyes open and be aware.
Btw, congrats on the graduation!
posted by CosmicSeeker42 at 1:50 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
1. Your boyfriend is a grown man wh has mage some boyish decisions. . .I think that's what probably scare your parents and reasonably should. He did get 2 women pregnant. By 29 he should have known to use protection. He proposed out of desperation, dropped out of school and wanted to marry a manipulative woman to make himself feel better. He doesn't seem like a bad guy but he has poor decision making skills which is what you'll get if you stay with him.
2. Im a little curious as to why you have a degree you're not going to use? School is expensive and you hardly ever hear if people spending lots of time and money to get a degree so they can do it all over and get another one in a different field. It's one thing if it was a master's but you want a 2nd bachelor's? I could be off base as to the circumstances but this makes me question your judgment as well and your future plans. Young very young so it's a natural thing that most people go through but I bring it up because it seems likes there's a pattern of rushed poorly thought out thinking . I know that comes across as harsh which isn't my intent but I did want to bring it up as something to think about.
Now about your question. If you want to stay with your boyfriend move out. I don't think it'd be a bad thing to do but for the love of god get an IUD or nexplanon...like now. Get it even if you don't stay together, its good to have your bases covered. When your in love with someone starting a family seems so romantic and it's easy for his previous situation to repeat itself. Don't move in with the boyfriend just be independent and manage your finances indecent as well. Also, you never said anything about relationship with the kids? People with kids are a package deal, are you ready to be a parent yet?
I really don't see your parents coming around , so the best you can do is to move out and then you don't have to deal with it if you don't want to but be aware it may continue to damage your relationship with them.
I wish you luck with your future career And all you pursue. Based off your description, I don't think this is the right relationship for you but I don't think you have any intention of leaving him so just keep your eyes open and be aware.
Btw, congrats on the graduation!
posted by CosmicSeeker42 at 1:50 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Woman - raise your standards! If you have to write 50 paragraphs to explain how good your guy is then chances are he's not a good guy.
Never ever trust any man who demonizes ALL of his exes. How can an adult be 'duped' into not wearing protection? His story is so fucking shit, it's embarrassing. Him vs THE BAD WOMEN. That he will not acknowledge his flaws or have compassion for his exes is disturbing. Yes your boyfriend DOES hold grudges - look at how he describes his exes. I find it remarkable that you are even remotely attracted to this man. The fact that his mother is the only woman in his life who can say anything nice about him should scare the living shit out of you. And he is now turning you into a second mother - someone to protect and defend him. Is this man-baby sexy to you?
Or maybe you like this because you want to be 'the one who will restore his faith in women - the ultimate woman'. Maybe it suits you to also see his exes as evil. Please don't blind yourself to his behaviour to fulfil this fantasy. Some guys are very aware of this as a fantasy in girls and play on it. Don't let that happen.
The thing missing from your comment about him is any critique of his character. Because you are defending him to your parents, you are only seeing what (remarkably) you think are his good sides. A criticism of him is not a criticism of you or your ability to be an adult. You need to separate the two. Do not take this personally. Take your parents out of the picture and look at this man in the cold light of day. It's essential that you can be critical of his character, his behaviour and the way he speaks about others because you are EQUALS. You are ALLOWED to critique his behaviour. Just because he is your elder does not mean he is better or wiser than you. You are as much of an adult as he is (don't let aesthetics like a car, property etc. fool you). That was not something I could see when I was 22 and in love with a misogynistic jackass (who also demonized his exes - yeh this is an actual TYPE of man that exists).
To a 22 year old girl, a 38 year old man is automatically accepted as a rational, reasonable and mature adult. This man is a child and you don't see it because your standards for men are very low at 22 as you've never really had to have any. You keep talking about what he thinks about his own actions - what do YOU think about them? If I were you, I would make myself write a list of why he is not a good guy, watching your strong need to try to defend him every time you write something negative about him. Then write something positive about him that has nothing to do with excusing the bad things he has done e.g. it cannot be 'he kicked an old lady but he did it wearing slippers when he could have worn sneakers so that makes him nice'. It needs to be something like 'he is supportive of me in my pursuits'. Look at your results COLDLY. Do you like this person?
This is a psycho to be kept on the side for a little crazy sex although fucking a man that childish would make me feel like a paedophile.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 3:02 AM on April 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Never ever trust any man who demonizes ALL of his exes. How can an adult be 'duped' into not wearing protection? His story is so fucking shit, it's embarrassing. Him vs THE BAD WOMEN. That he will not acknowledge his flaws or have compassion for his exes is disturbing. Yes your boyfriend DOES hold grudges - look at how he describes his exes. I find it remarkable that you are even remotely attracted to this man. The fact that his mother is the only woman in his life who can say anything nice about him should scare the living shit out of you. And he is now turning you into a second mother - someone to protect and defend him. Is this man-baby sexy to you?
Or maybe you like this because you want to be 'the one who will restore his faith in women - the ultimate woman'. Maybe it suits you to also see his exes as evil. Please don't blind yourself to his behaviour to fulfil this fantasy. Some guys are very aware of this as a fantasy in girls and play on it. Don't let that happen.
The thing missing from your comment about him is any critique of his character. Because you are defending him to your parents, you are only seeing what (remarkably) you think are his good sides. A criticism of him is not a criticism of you or your ability to be an adult. You need to separate the two. Do not take this personally. Take your parents out of the picture and look at this man in the cold light of day. It's essential that you can be critical of his character, his behaviour and the way he speaks about others because you are EQUALS. You are ALLOWED to critique his behaviour. Just because he is your elder does not mean he is better or wiser than you. You are as much of an adult as he is (don't let aesthetics like a car, property etc. fool you). That was not something I could see when I was 22 and in love with a misogynistic jackass (who also demonized his exes - yeh this is an actual TYPE of man that exists).
To a 22 year old girl, a 38 year old man is automatically accepted as a rational, reasonable and mature adult. This man is a child and you don't see it because your standards for men are very low at 22 as you've never really had to have any. You keep talking about what he thinks about his own actions - what do YOU think about them? If I were you, I would make myself write a list of why he is not a good guy, watching your strong need to try to defend him every time you write something negative about him. Then write something positive about him that has nothing to do with excusing the bad things he has done e.g. it cannot be 'he kicked an old lady but he did it wearing slippers when he could have worn sneakers so that makes him nice'. It needs to be something like 'he is supportive of me in my pursuits'. Look at your results COLDLY. Do you like this person?
This is a psycho to be kept on the side for a little crazy sex although fucking a man that childish would make me feel like a paedophile.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 3:02 AM on April 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Either way, I will be returning home for some period of time, and am paralyzed by fear of what will happen with my relationship due to my family's objections. How do I deal?
It sounds like your question is "how do you deal with your parents' objections to your relationship?"
Listen - I don't know whether he's a good guy or not a good guy, and I don't know if your parents are the kind of parents who will withhold financial support if you don't do everything they say. If they're abusive, this turns into a different question.
If you're determined to accept your parents' financial support, you need to let go of the idea that the only people who are in your corner are the people who enthusiastically support every idea or decision or relationship you have. It's disappointing, but it's okay. They DO love you.
My suggestion is this: when it comes to discussing your relationship, you imagine that you've just moved in with your great aunt and uncle. When your great aunt or uncle asks about your boyfriend, you say "he's nice! I like him!" - you don't say "OMG he's the best, I love the way he looks at me! He did this cute little thing the other day that I just have to explain...! Did I mention he has two kids by different mothers?"
If your folks are likely to proactively ask lots of questions and constantly check in with you about it, you can tell them the following "I love you. I know you love me. I've thought a lot about your concerns, and I get it. You might be right. But I might be right and I'm going to see it through a little further. I promise I won't get married or pregnant (or an STD) in the next couple of years at least. Just give me some space to see it through. I'm really happy right now, and that happiness is valuable to me."
And then treat them like great aunts and uncles. Share the minimum and be polite. If you lived with a great aunt and uncle, you'd ask how their day was going and you'd offer to do laundry for them, or make them dinner. Do that. Be helpful and interested. (And for heavan's sake, do your own laundry and expect to make your own meals!) Pro Tip: parents are less worried about their kids if their kids are actively involved in the daily life of the household. Make eye contact, be home sometimes, offer to help out, spend time with your family - it's like hush money.
I will be returning home for some period of time, and am paralyzed by fear of what will happen with my relationship due to my family's objections
Nothing will happen to your relationship due to your family's objections. Something might happen to your relationship with your family due to their objections, but not to your relationship with your boyfriend. It sounds like you're ready to blame the end of your relationship on your family (already!) Something might happen to your relationship with your boyfriend --- because most relationships don't work out.
One final thought: a lot of Masters and PhD programs don't like to admit students who got their undergrad degrees at their own institution. And they might not be honest about it if asked directly. Look at other schools.
posted by vitabellosi at 9:34 AM on April 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
It sounds like your question is "how do you deal with your parents' objections to your relationship?"
Listen - I don't know whether he's a good guy or not a good guy, and I don't know if your parents are the kind of parents who will withhold financial support if you don't do everything they say. If they're abusive, this turns into a different question.
If you're determined to accept your parents' financial support, you need to let go of the idea that the only people who are in your corner are the people who enthusiastically support every idea or decision or relationship you have. It's disappointing, but it's okay. They DO love you.
My suggestion is this: when it comes to discussing your relationship, you imagine that you've just moved in with your great aunt and uncle. When your great aunt or uncle asks about your boyfriend, you say "he's nice! I like him!" - you don't say "OMG he's the best, I love the way he looks at me! He did this cute little thing the other day that I just have to explain...! Did I mention he has two kids by different mothers?"
If your folks are likely to proactively ask lots of questions and constantly check in with you about it, you can tell them the following "I love you. I know you love me. I've thought a lot about your concerns, and I get it. You might be right. But I might be right and I'm going to see it through a little further. I promise I won't get married or pregnant (or an STD) in the next couple of years at least. Just give me some space to see it through. I'm really happy right now, and that happiness is valuable to me."
And then treat them like great aunts and uncles. Share the minimum and be polite. If you lived with a great aunt and uncle, you'd ask how their day was going and you'd offer to do laundry for them, or make them dinner. Do that. Be helpful and interested. (And for heavan's sake, do your own laundry and expect to make your own meals!) Pro Tip: parents are less worried about their kids if their kids are actively involved in the daily life of the household. Make eye contact, be home sometimes, offer to help out, spend time with your family - it's like hush money.
I will be returning home for some period of time, and am paralyzed by fear of what will happen with my relationship due to my family's objections
Nothing will happen to your relationship due to your family's objections. Something might happen to your relationship with your family due to their objections, but not to your relationship with your boyfriend. It sounds like you're ready to blame the end of your relationship on your family (already!) Something might happen to your relationship with your boyfriend --- because most relationships don't work out.
One final thought: a lot of Masters and PhD programs don't like to admit students who got their undergrad degrees at their own institution. And they might not be honest about it if asked directly. Look at other schools.
posted by vitabellosi at 9:34 AM on April 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's interesting that you only mentioned the bad things about him and not that, say, he lives on his own, has a good job, has a good amount of money saved up, or ever finished college. Do any of those things apply to him, or does he still have the outward appearance of not having his life together? Your boyfriend has a lot to prove, in your family's eyes, in order to overcome the idea that a large part of his attraction to you comes from your naiveté.
Your parents should know that you're never going to change your mind about him unless that change comes from within you and from your experiences with him. I've been there.
posted by wondermouse at 3:26 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your parents should know that you're never going to change your mind about him unless that change comes from within you and from your experiences with him. I've been there.
posted by wondermouse at 3:26 PM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have to nth everyone else who pointed out that a nearly 40-year-old man wants to date a girl who is barely legal because well, she's too young to know any better or smell out a bad story--you'll believe anything he tells you. And well, you have. He'll always be on top in the relationship. Hoo boy, have I seen scary times with much older men preying on barely legal females. I haaaaaaaaaate big age differences in relationships because of dealing with skeezy dudes who thought they could put shit over on me. Grown-ass men old enough to be your father, and have adult responsibilities dating college students probably aren't going to be great at following the campsite rule, for a reason. They're not looking for an equal in a relationship. They're not dating you because you're "mature," it's quite the opposite. And a "mature" woman probably wouldn't go for this drama.
"Sometimes wonderful people get caught up in difficult situations."
Uh...he picked all these crazy exes to date/wed/impregnate, repeatedly. He kind of chose this drama there. He didn't just have drama dropped on top of him like a plane crash as he was minding his own business going down the street.
You want us to tell you how to make your parents happy with it? Beats me, because I'm not okay with it and I don't even know you. Alarm bells are going off like mad for most of us in this thread. Honestly, he'd have to prove himself as being a responsible adult who uses condoms and holds down a job and pays his child support for years before I'd possibly reconsider, if I were your parents. If I were you, I'd do my best to maintain/establish my own independence, get a job, stay on birth control, and give him a few more years to prove himself before making any commitments.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:58 AM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Sometimes wonderful people get caught up in difficult situations."
Uh...he picked all these crazy exes to date/wed/impregnate, repeatedly. He kind of chose this drama there. He didn't just have drama dropped on top of him like a plane crash as he was minding his own business going down the street.
You want us to tell you how to make your parents happy with it? Beats me, because I'm not okay with it and I don't even know you. Alarm bells are going off like mad for most of us in this thread. Honestly, he'd have to prove himself as being a responsible adult who uses condoms and holds down a job and pays his child support for years before I'd possibly reconsider, if I were your parents. If I were you, I'd do my best to maintain/establish my own independence, get a job, stay on birth control, and give him a few more years to prove himself before making any commitments.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:58 AM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by bleep at 9:14 PM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]