negative roman numerals? fractions? imaginary numbers?
April 27, 2015 12:09 PM Subscribe
Weird pagesetting question: I'm writing an introduction for the reprint of a book that already has a preface (and will be getting a NEW preface for the new edition). We want to retain the original pagination for the reprint.
new introduction, preface, etc: maybe 50 or so pages
original preface: vii-xvii
original text begins on page 3
Is there a number schema that comes "before" lower case Roman numerals that we can use for those first fifty pages? Does Chicago or MLA have any ideas about this?
new introduction, preface, etc: maybe 50 or so pages
original preface: vii-xvii
original text begins on page 3
Is there a number schema that comes "before" lower case Roman numerals that we can use for those first fifty pages? Does Chicago or MLA have any ideas about this?
Response by poster: I've thought so too, but I can't seem to find a real-world example.
A person just walking by my office suggested that I use Arabic numerals again, ie:
new introduction, preface, etc: 1-50
original preface: vii-xvii
original text begins on page 3
I also thought about doing that, perhaps marked (1), (2), etc, but I feel as though I can't be the first person who has encountered this issue.
posted by gerryblog at 12:14 PM on April 27, 2015
A person just walking by my office suggested that I use Arabic numerals again, ie:
new introduction, preface, etc: 1-50
original preface: vii-xvii
original text begins on page 3
I also thought about doing that, perhaps marked (1), (2), etc, but I feel as though I can't be the first person who has encountered this issue.
posted by gerryblog at 12:14 PM on April 27, 2015
I second upper case roman numerals. I think it's the most intuitive solution. I think it would be a nightmare for a book to have multiple page 3s. How would you reference that?
posted by rikschell at 12:16 PM on April 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 12:16 PM on April 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Chicago Manual does not address this situation, as best as I can tell.
The one book I can find that includes an original preface and a preface to the paperback edition uses one series of lowercase roman numerals straight through.
posted by adamrice at 12:29 PM on April 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
The one book I can find that includes an original preface and a preface to the paperback edition uses one series of lowercase roman numerals straight through.
posted by adamrice at 12:29 PM on April 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have usually seen this where the new preface comes AFTER the original preface, and thus can continue on with the lower case roman numerals. Is that not possible in this case?
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:04 PM on April 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:04 PM on April 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think your best option is to use one series of lower Roman numerals for both new and old prefaces, so renumbering the original preface but then keeping the original numbers for the main text.
The reason for retaining numbers is so that references don't break, page 25 is always page 25 and you don't have to fully qualify it as 'page 25 in the XX edition'.
If you use Arabic numbers for either preface, then 'page 25' becomes ambiguous, which is even worse.
Making a reference to preface text is much less common and you will only be changing 10 pages, something has to give.
posted by Lanark at 1:49 PM on April 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
The reason for retaining numbers is so that references don't break, page 25 is always page 25 and you don't have to fully qualify it as 'page 25 in the XX edition'.
If you use Arabic numbers for either preface, then 'page 25' becomes ambiguous, which is even worse.
Making a reference to preface text is much less common and you will only be changing 10 pages, something has to give.
posted by Lanark at 1:49 PM on April 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've seen documents/reports that separate numbering for an appendix, as Appendix -1, Appendix-2, etc. You could do that with some suitable prefix.
posted by SemiSalt at 2:25 PM on April 27, 2015
posted by SemiSalt at 2:25 PM on April 27, 2015
Full disclosure: this is the opinion of a layman. I have no publishing experience to speak of.
I'd say the easiest way out here would be to insert your new preface after the original preface, and use page numbers that occur after the original preface page numbers.
If you must retain the ordering of the sections as you have outlined them, then you need to come up with some numbering solution that doesn't clash with the roman numerals or arabic page numbers. In that case I'd suggest that using a prefix with your page numbers (e.g. numbering like A-1...N, with A as the prefix) will cause the least confusion. I wouldn't necessarily catch on to the idea that upper and lower-case roman numerals necessarily refer to something different.
posted by Aleyn at 4:01 PM on April 27, 2015
I'd say the easiest way out here would be to insert your new preface after the original preface, and use page numbers that occur after the original preface page numbers.
If you must retain the ordering of the sections as you have outlined them, then you need to come up with some numbering solution that doesn't clash with the roman numerals or arabic page numbers. In that case I'd suggest that using a prefix with your page numbers (e.g. numbering like A-1...N, with A as the prefix) will cause the least confusion. I wouldn't necessarily catch on to the idea that upper and lower-case roman numerals necessarily refer to something different.
posted by Aleyn at 4:01 PM on April 27, 2015
I work in “serious” book publishing and have used/referenced a lot of reprints of historical publications. One way I’ve seen this handled (when an unaltered facsimile reprint is desired while at the same time adding a new intro/preface/etc.) is to treat this as a “book within a book.” New half-title, title, and copyright pages are made followed by the new material. The pages which include the page number have it in arabic numberals in brackets, the numbering starting with the half-title page.
So, the half-title is [1] (unnumbered); page [2] is blank; title page is [3] (unnumbered); copyright page is [4] (unnumbered); and then, unless there is need for other unnumbered pages of new material (maps, dedications, etc.), page [5] is your first page of your new preface.
After all new material, the original book starts from whatever page in the original is roman numeral i. This usually is the half-title, so you are reproducing all of the front matter from the original, including the old copyright page. If the old publication is unusual and has pages with content truly unnumbered (before page i) then that is usually reproduced for completeness unless they are old advertisements from the publisher or similar marketing material which really wasn’t part of the book and not desirable to keep in for historical reasons.
posted by D.C. at 5:02 PM on April 27, 2015
So, the half-title is [1] (unnumbered); page [2] is blank; title page is [3] (unnumbered); copyright page is [4] (unnumbered); and then, unless there is need for other unnumbered pages of new material (maps, dedications, etc.), page [5] is your first page of your new preface.
After all new material, the original book starts from whatever page in the original is roman numeral i. This usually is the half-title, so you are reproducing all of the front matter from the original, including the old copyright page. If the old publication is unusual and has pages with content truly unnumbered (before page i) then that is usually reproduced for completeness unless they are old advertisements from the publisher or similar marketing material which really wasn’t part of the book and not desirable to keep in for historical reasons.
posted by D.C. at 5:02 PM on April 27, 2015
The example that comes to mind for me is a reprint of Convex Polytopes, where they printed the text of the original 1967 edition, and then after each chapter they added additional material. My copy's at work, but as near as I can tell, they (i) added a single extra page to the preface, in-number with the original preface (that is, the original preface was i - x and now there;s a page xi), and then stuff after the old chapters, placed between old pages 428 and 429, is numbered 428a, 428b, etc.
For what it;s worth, the default enumerate labels in LaTeX are
level 1: arabic 1,2,3, ...
level 2: letters (a), (b),(c ),...
level 3: lower case roman i, ii, iii, ...
level 4: upper case letters A, B, C, ...
but clearly that's problematic if you're looking at ~50 pages. So I'd probably go with I, II, III, etc.
(But I really like D.C.'s solution above, too!)
posted by leahwrenn at 8:08 PM on April 27, 2015
For what it;s worth, the default enumerate labels in LaTeX are
level 1: arabic 1,2,3, ...
level 2: letters (a), (b),(c ),...
level 3: lower case roman i, ii, iii, ...
level 4: upper case letters A, B, C, ...
but clearly that's problematic if you're looking at ~50 pages. So I'd probably go with I, II, III, etc.
(But I really like D.C.'s solution above, too!)
posted by leahwrenn at 8:08 PM on April 27, 2015
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posted by lollusc at 12:12 PM on April 27, 2015 [1 favorite]