Trying to prevent an online stranger's suicide - need help/resources
April 25, 2015 4:34 PM Subscribe
I know the bare minimum about this person--her age, the city she lives in, not even her name. A (tumblr) post from her came across my dash about how she is planning to kill herself next week. I need resources, preferably where I could actually talk to someone and get them familiar with the situation.
I have no idea if this should be/belongs here but honestly I don't know what to do and I don't necessarily need point by point suggestions from you guys, I just need a reference on where I COULD go for that sort of thing at least.
Going to try to keep this short.
- All of this is taking place on tumblr. I do not know this person's name, I got her to tell me what city she lives in, I know how old she is. That's about it.
- She is getting a lot of responses on her blog but seems to be shutting most of them down.
- As it's on tumblr I am at basically at her whims when it comes to her replying to things. She was very chatty yesterday which was good but less so today.
- She made a vague post about killing herself next week.
- She is bipolar. I am bipolar, so I got her talking about that a little bit. I'm not sure if she's medicated but I think she probably isn't. She didn't seem to want to talk about it.
- She is young. High school young. I'm like 30 so I'm trying here.
- She posted just a little bit ago that she is hearing things and is scared. I haven't been able to get her to respond since then. She seems set on not killing herself until after she does a show next week. I'm not confident but she seemed VERY intent on it so...
Her perspectives, I'm not sure how true they are because she seems to be super depressed:
- She has a family situation that she thinks is pretty bad. She doesn't think she can get out of that situation for another ~4 years or so.
- She has lost a lot of her friend support network due to infiltration by a toxic friend who sort of took the group over. This toxic friend also 'stole' all of her interests including her favorite band.
- She wants to be a musician but her parents won't let her.
I could break down our convos but the long and short of it is a lot of people were sending 'it gets better' and 'please don't kill yourself' which is great and all that she was getting messages but she was brushing all of those away and not really responding. I've read suggestions about what to say online but I feel like I'm sort of grasping at straws here now. I'm just trying to be understanding and optimistic enough to not encourage her but not enough to scare her away because she's shut some other people down. Really I just wanted to keep her talking.
I tried calling the suicide prevention hotline and the woman was remarkably unhelpful. Basically I was told if I didn't know her contact info there was nothing at all they can do. I get that, but she couldn't point me to anyone who could maybe counsel me through something.
Can/should I call the police? Would they even be able to do anything? Would this help this situation or escalate it?
If you have any advice whatsoever I would appreciate it. Really sorry if this shouldn't be here.
I have no idea if this should be/belongs here but honestly I don't know what to do and I don't necessarily need point by point suggestions from you guys, I just need a reference on where I COULD go for that sort of thing at least.
Going to try to keep this short.
- All of this is taking place on tumblr. I do not know this person's name, I got her to tell me what city she lives in, I know how old she is. That's about it.
- She is getting a lot of responses on her blog but seems to be shutting most of them down.
- As it's on tumblr I am at basically at her whims when it comes to her replying to things. She was very chatty yesterday which was good but less so today.
- She made a vague post about killing herself next week.
- She is bipolar. I am bipolar, so I got her talking about that a little bit. I'm not sure if she's medicated but I think she probably isn't. She didn't seem to want to talk about it.
- She is young. High school young. I'm like 30 so I'm trying here.
- She posted just a little bit ago that she is hearing things and is scared. I haven't been able to get her to respond since then. She seems set on not killing herself until after she does a show next week. I'm not confident but she seemed VERY intent on it so...
Her perspectives, I'm not sure how true they are because she seems to be super depressed:
- She has a family situation that she thinks is pretty bad. She doesn't think she can get out of that situation for another ~4 years or so.
- She has lost a lot of her friend support network due to infiltration by a toxic friend who sort of took the group over. This toxic friend also 'stole' all of her interests including her favorite band.
- She wants to be a musician but her parents won't let her.
I could break down our convos but the long and short of it is a lot of people were sending 'it gets better' and 'please don't kill yourself' which is great and all that she was getting messages but she was brushing all of those away and not really responding. I've read suggestions about what to say online but I feel like I'm sort of grasping at straws here now. I'm just trying to be understanding and optimistic enough to not encourage her but not enough to scare her away because she's shut some other people down. Really I just wanted to keep her talking.
I tried calling the suicide prevention hotline and the woman was remarkably unhelpful. Basically I was told if I didn't know her contact info there was nothing at all they can do. I get that, but she couldn't point me to anyone who could maybe counsel me through something.
Can/should I call the police? Would they even be able to do anything? Would this help this situation or escalate it?
If you have any advice whatsoever I would appreciate it. Really sorry if this shouldn't be here.
Response by poster: Everything on the tumblr help page is talking about people seeking help for themselves. I can't get this girl to do a suicide hotline or the online chat thing and the people I've talked to keep saying they can't help me, so... that seems like a dead end.
I've just been messaging with her back and forth via the tumblr messaging system, so it is private between the two of us, but that's my only way of communicating.
Re: the police if anyone thinks I should call them, will they even be able to do anything? She lives in Pittsburgh. That's as specific as I know.
posted by nogoodverybad at 4:51 PM on April 25, 2015
I've just been messaging with her back and forth via the tumblr messaging system, so it is private between the two of us, but that's my only way of communicating.
Re: the police if anyone thinks I should call them, will they even be able to do anything? She lives in Pittsburgh. That's as specific as I know.
posted by nogoodverybad at 4:51 PM on April 25, 2015
Yes you can contact the police. They usually take this seriously and will get in touch with Tumbler and ask for this persons IP info and use it to contact them. Tumbler won't do anything until that happens though so asking them is most likely a non-starter. I think calling the police in the city they live in is probably your best bet.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:57 PM on April 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:57 PM on April 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
The police do (at least sometimes) respond. I had some peripheral experience with this back in the days of livejournal, and they were able to find the person threatening self harm. It at very least will not do any harm to contact them.
posted by frumiousb at 5:02 PM on April 25, 2015
posted by frumiousb at 5:02 PM on April 25, 2015
Also in Pittsburgh we have the RESOLVE Crisis line: http://www.upmc.com/services/behavioral-health/pages/resolve-crisis-network.aspx
I have had cause to call them and they are really great, both by phone and their mobile crisis teams. I think they could talk with you about any local resources and about what they and/or the police can or can't do. Plus I wonder if you might have any more luck getting your acquaintance to call a general crisis line vs. a suicide specific line - if you could get her to call to talk about her family situation, maybe the crisis folks can take it from there.
posted by Stacey at 5:03 PM on April 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
I have had cause to call them and they are really great, both by phone and their mobile crisis teams. I think they could talk with you about any local resources and about what they and/or the police can or can't do. Plus I wonder if you might have any more luck getting your acquaintance to call a general crisis line vs. a suicide specific line - if you could get her to call to talk about her family situation, maybe the crisis folks can take it from there.
posted by Stacey at 5:03 PM on April 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
I am not trying to negate your experience, but I also have a similar friend, who is bipolar and posts very dramatic statements. Then goes silent. And it turns out that she has gone into the hospital, because her parents recognized that she was going through a downturn. And thus, she couldn't post updates.
Being around people who are suffering this, you cannot always help someone at a distance like this. I know it's very hard, because you want to help, and you've been through it. My friend posted a big statement about how she had been planning to kill herself for a long time, yet, when I called her, she said, "oh, well, I'm not really doing that, but blah, blah, blah, blah" about something else. You have no way to judge this person, because she is not your close friend, so I think you should actually back off.
My friend is medicated and goes into the hospital at least once a year to get the meds regulated. I know you want to help, but if it's causing you severe anxiety, you should step back and take care of yourself. Just because you are bipolar does not mean you have to step in and help every other bipolar person in the universe. In fact, you should take care of yourself and your own circle of friends and family, and shut out the rest of the suffering world, to protect yourself. It's like when I joined an anxiety list and it made me more anxious, listening to all the other people's tales about how anxious they were over everything.
Sorry if I seem callaus: I am not. I feel for you and your online friend both. I just want to make sure that you are taking care of your own needs before you wade in and try to solve someone else's problems, okay?
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:41 PM on April 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
Being around people who are suffering this, you cannot always help someone at a distance like this. I know it's very hard, because you want to help, and you've been through it. My friend posted a big statement about how she had been planning to kill herself for a long time, yet, when I called her, she said, "oh, well, I'm not really doing that, but blah, blah, blah, blah" about something else. You have no way to judge this person, because she is not your close friend, so I think you should actually back off.
My friend is medicated and goes into the hospital at least once a year to get the meds regulated. I know you want to help, but if it's causing you severe anxiety, you should step back and take care of yourself. Just because you are bipolar does not mean you have to step in and help every other bipolar person in the universe. In fact, you should take care of yourself and your own circle of friends and family, and shut out the rest of the suffering world, to protect yourself. It's like when I joined an anxiety list and it made me more anxious, listening to all the other people's tales about how anxious they were over everything.
Sorry if I seem callaus: I am not. I feel for you and your online friend both. I just want to make sure that you are taking care of your own needs before you wade in and try to solve someone else's problems, okay?
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:41 PM on April 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
At the bottom of https://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/counseling_prevention_resources, there's a "Can't find what you're looking for? Contact us" link from Tumblr. Provide them with all the information you have including her username and the message content which most explicitly addresses her intent for self harm/suicide.
If tumblr isn't responsive after you attempt to contact them, memail me.
posted by msladygrey at 5:45 PM on April 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
If tumblr isn't responsive after you attempt to contact them, memail me.
posted by msladygrey at 5:45 PM on April 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Stacey you have been more of a help than you can ever know. Those people were so helpful.
She's responding again in case anyone was wondering and seems ok for now. I appreciate concerns for my own well-being (upon skimming, sorry, I haven't fully had time ) but for what it's worth I am keeping an eye on myself. For now this is not an issue aside from causing me (not overwhemling) stress. I feel like I still have time and there are a lot of options.
Will have to read other responses properly in a little bit, the Pittsburgh crisis line helped SO so much.
posted by nogoodverybad at 6:06 PM on April 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
She's responding again in case anyone was wondering and seems ok for now. I appreciate concerns for my own well-being (upon skimming, sorry, I haven't fully had time ) but for what it's worth I am keeping an eye on myself. For now this is not an issue aside from causing me (not overwhemling) stress. I feel like I still have time and there are a lot of options.
Will have to read other responses properly in a little bit, the Pittsburgh crisis line helped SO so much.
posted by nogoodverybad at 6:06 PM on April 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
Suicide crisis line counselor here. I'm sorry you didn't have any luck when you called. A lot of the supervisors who screen the calls are prejudiced against third party calls (someone calling worried about someone else) for internet friends, much less internet strangers.
The thing is, if she doesn't want help/is help-rejecting, there's not a whole lot you can do. There are no magic words that can change someone's mind. Usually that would mean involuntary rescue (police, emergency room, psychiatric hold), but because you know so little about her, you're in a bit of a bind.
That said, not everyone who wants to kill themselves is actually very intent on doing so, and even if they are, they don't always have the means to do it. What you CAN do is investigate her level of intent and her capability for suicide. Here are some questions we ask everyone who calls in at the hotline:
Are you thinking about killing yourself?: A lot of people are depressed and talk about "not wanting to be here anymore" in an abstract way. Make sure the discussion is about suicide specifically so everyone's on the same page.
Do you have a plan?: People who are intent know how they're going to carry the deed out and usually aren't shy about telling you. If they mention multiple possible ways ("Well, I could close my garage and start my car, or I could walk off the bride downtown..."), then they aren't married to any of those ideas and haven't actually thought about it. If they do mention something specific, let's say pills, then ask follow-up questions. What kind of pills? How many? Do you have them in your possession now? If not, where are you going to get them? How are you going to transport yourself to get it? Not everyone has a car.
Have you harmed yourself already?: If they tell you about a plan (i.e. cutting), you can evaluate if they're at immediate risk. Best to know if you're dealing with an attempt already in progress - if it is in progress, you can call the police and they'll take it 100x more seriously than if you just say, "My friend is suicidal."
Have you attempted before? How?: If someone has attempted before, this gives their words much more weight. Finding out how they've attempted before can give you insight on what methods they've tried, and what the consequences of those methods were. If someone tried overdosing, what happened afterward? Did they wake up fine the next day? Did they end up in the hospital? Who found them?
Do you have access to a gun?: This might be uncomfortable to ask (as if all the other questions weren't!) because it's easy to feel like you're putting an idea in someone's head. If they do have access to a gun, trust me, they've already thought about it without your help. Having access to a gun makes them higher risk because it is a method that can be acted on much more impulsively. If a person is thinking about suicide, self-inflicted gunshots are unfortunately pretty lethal.
Have you lost anyone to suicide?: Exposure to suicide can have serious affects. It can get them thinking about their own loved one's impact when loved one took their life. This opens the possibility for them to consider, "If it hurt so much when Friend A kill himself... how would Friend B feel if I did the same thing?" It might also have a different effect ("Well so-and-so killed themselves, too"). Ask how they feel about the suicide.
On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being not likely (just thoughts at the moment) to 5 being extremely likely (will attempt within the next 24 hours), how likely are you to ACT on your thoughts of suicide at this moment?: Having people rate themselves really opens their eyes and might even surprise them ("On second thought, I guess I'm more like a 3..."). This also gives you an idea if they're really intent, or if they're feeling extremely emotional and not thinking clearly. For example, if someone self-rates a 5 but doesn't have a plan, they're not as intent as they think they are.
Basically, the rule of thumb is, when someone's says they're going to kill themselves, there's almost nothing that's off-limits to ask about. Don't be afraid to get nosy. There are a million other ways you could take the conversation (find out why she's feeling this way, if she has other support, etc), but these are good questions to start. More than anything, these are for YOU, so you can know exactly what you're dealing with and (hopefully) maybe get some peace of mind.
posted by idealist at 6:08 PM on April 25, 2015 [36 favorites]
The thing is, if she doesn't want help/is help-rejecting, there's not a whole lot you can do. There are no magic words that can change someone's mind. Usually that would mean involuntary rescue (police, emergency room, psychiatric hold), but because you know so little about her, you're in a bit of a bind.
That said, not everyone who wants to kill themselves is actually very intent on doing so, and even if they are, they don't always have the means to do it. What you CAN do is investigate her level of intent and her capability for suicide. Here are some questions we ask everyone who calls in at the hotline:
Are you thinking about killing yourself?: A lot of people are depressed and talk about "not wanting to be here anymore" in an abstract way. Make sure the discussion is about suicide specifically so everyone's on the same page.
Do you have a plan?: People who are intent know how they're going to carry the deed out and usually aren't shy about telling you. If they mention multiple possible ways ("Well, I could close my garage and start my car, or I could walk off the bride downtown..."), then they aren't married to any of those ideas and haven't actually thought about it. If they do mention something specific, let's say pills, then ask follow-up questions. What kind of pills? How many? Do you have them in your possession now? If not, where are you going to get them? How are you going to transport yourself to get it? Not everyone has a car.
Have you harmed yourself already?: If they tell you about a plan (i.e. cutting), you can evaluate if they're at immediate risk. Best to know if you're dealing with an attempt already in progress - if it is in progress, you can call the police and they'll take it 100x more seriously than if you just say, "My friend is suicidal."
Have you attempted before? How?: If someone has attempted before, this gives their words much more weight. Finding out how they've attempted before can give you insight on what methods they've tried, and what the consequences of those methods were. If someone tried overdosing, what happened afterward? Did they wake up fine the next day? Did they end up in the hospital? Who found them?
Do you have access to a gun?: This might be uncomfortable to ask (as if all the other questions weren't!) because it's easy to feel like you're putting an idea in someone's head. If they do have access to a gun, trust me, they've already thought about it without your help. Having access to a gun makes them higher risk because it is a method that can be acted on much more impulsively. If a person is thinking about suicide, self-inflicted gunshots are unfortunately pretty lethal.
Have you lost anyone to suicide?: Exposure to suicide can have serious affects. It can get them thinking about their own loved one's impact when loved one took their life. This opens the possibility for them to consider, "If it hurt so much when Friend A kill himself... how would Friend B feel if I did the same thing?" It might also have a different effect ("Well so-and-so killed themselves, too"). Ask how they feel about the suicide.
On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being not likely (just thoughts at the moment) to 5 being extremely likely (will attempt within the next 24 hours), how likely are you to ACT on your thoughts of suicide at this moment?: Having people rate themselves really opens their eyes and might even surprise them ("On second thought, I guess I'm more like a 3..."). This also gives you an idea if they're really intent, or if they're feeling extremely emotional and not thinking clearly. For example, if someone self-rates a 5 but doesn't have a plan, they're not as intent as they think they are.
Basically, the rule of thumb is, when someone's says they're going to kill themselves, there's almost nothing that's off-limits to ask about. Don't be afraid to get nosy. There are a million other ways you could take the conversation (find out why she's feeling this way, if she has other support, etc), but these are good questions to start. More than anything, these are for YOU, so you can know exactly what you're dealing with and (hopefully) maybe get some peace of mind.
posted by idealist at 6:08 PM on April 25, 2015 [36 favorites]
any advice whatsoever
Use your best judgement and do what you can.
If that turns out not to have been enough: grieve, but don't beat yourself up for not having done more, or for having done something that turned out to have been the wrong thing. Having done something makes you one of the good ones.
If this turns out to be some unbelievably cruel Internet troll playing with your emotions for fun: don't let that harden you. Taking threats of suicide at face value is always the correct first response to them. Always. People who play on that fact for their own twisted satisfaction are beyond contempt, and we owe it to ourselves not to let them twist us too.
I think what you're doing here is absolutely laudable. I hope it works out.
posted by flabdablet at 8:45 AM on April 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Use your best judgement and do what you can.
If that turns out not to have been enough: grieve, but don't beat yourself up for not having done more, or for having done something that turned out to have been the wrong thing. Having done something makes you one of the good ones.
If this turns out to be some unbelievably cruel Internet troll playing with your emotions for fun: don't let that harden you. Taking threats of suicide at face value is always the correct first response to them. Always. People who play on that fact for their own twisted satisfaction are beyond contempt, and we owe it to ourselves not to let them twist us too.
I think what you're doing here is absolutely laudable. I hope it works out.
posted by flabdablet at 8:45 AM on April 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I feel the need to hop back in to offer an update to anyone who might have been wondering.
Online friend is currently alive and relatively well. She made it through the show she had with a very positive outcome (new connections, etc.). Every once in a while she talks about the future in a more long-term sense, and some of that is bad (her limitations in choices due to parental input etc.) but some of it is good, and we are working on encouraging the good moreso than anything else.
I have the impression (and the personal experience to think) that this is a long-term discussion that needs to be kept up with her, which I personally do not mind. At current it seems like a message or so a day and checking her blog occasionally is very helpful to her. I did forward along the info for the Pittsburgh RESOLVE Crisis Line to her. I’m not sure if she’s taken any of it to heart/decided to use it, but at least she has it just in case there’s a night where she’s having a really rough time and I’m not around to talk to.
For those concerned that she might just be playing for attention: I very much appreciate what you’ve had to say, particularly as that pertains to me and the end result of all of this, and I do feel like it was absolutely worth your time to address that possibility. I had considered it as well, but it probably always bears repeating. For me, what this girl was saying to me and what she was posting on her blog were very familiar behaviors/thoughts to my own experiences with mental illness so I figured she deserves the benefit of the doubt and still feel that way. And the fact that she did have a plan (even if certain elements weren’t specific) was enough to think this was potentially Very Serious.
Thank you so much for all of your advice or even just acknowledgment of the situation. I was at the point where I wasn’t necessarily freaking out but I was definitely getting anxious and super concerned about saying the wrong thing. It was nice also to be reminded that there isn’t really a ‘wrong thing’ and sometimes all you can do is try.
For anyone who might find and reference this thread in the future:
- I very much recommend calling a crisis line, preferably local to the person who is suicidal.
- I do not recommend calling a suicide hotline. You can if you want but if you have limited time/resources a crisis hotline is probably going to be way more helpful. Both to you and the person you are calling on behalf of.
- In this particular situation I do not recommend calling the police. In my judgment it’s doubtful if it would have helped short-term, and I feel like it could have been catastrophic in the long term, because it would have destroyed any trust this person had in me and I’m not sure how alone she would end up being.
- In a similar vein, I am glad I did not bring tumblr administration into this.
All of this said, everything in this is very particular to this situation and also to how my interactions with her felt. In particular the fact that she had a goal (to make it until yesterday) provided me a lot of time that you might not always have for this kind of situation. Getting the police/other authorities involved is probably the right choice especially if the threat of suicide is imminent. I was dealing with a very specific situation here.
Thanks again, all of you. I really appreciate it.
posted by nogoodverybad at 9:21 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Online friend is currently alive and relatively well. She made it through the show she had with a very positive outcome (new connections, etc.). Every once in a while she talks about the future in a more long-term sense, and some of that is bad (her limitations in choices due to parental input etc.) but some of it is good, and we are working on encouraging the good moreso than anything else.
I have the impression (and the personal experience to think) that this is a long-term discussion that needs to be kept up with her, which I personally do not mind. At current it seems like a message or so a day and checking her blog occasionally is very helpful to her. I did forward along the info for the Pittsburgh RESOLVE Crisis Line to her. I’m not sure if she’s taken any of it to heart/decided to use it, but at least she has it just in case there’s a night where she’s having a really rough time and I’m not around to talk to.
For those concerned that she might just be playing for attention: I very much appreciate what you’ve had to say, particularly as that pertains to me and the end result of all of this, and I do feel like it was absolutely worth your time to address that possibility. I had considered it as well, but it probably always bears repeating. For me, what this girl was saying to me and what she was posting on her blog were very familiar behaviors/thoughts to my own experiences with mental illness so I figured she deserves the benefit of the doubt and still feel that way. And the fact that she did have a plan (even if certain elements weren’t specific) was enough to think this was potentially Very Serious.
Thank you so much for all of your advice or even just acknowledgment of the situation. I was at the point where I wasn’t necessarily freaking out but I was definitely getting anxious and super concerned about saying the wrong thing. It was nice also to be reminded that there isn’t really a ‘wrong thing’ and sometimes all you can do is try.
For anyone who might find and reference this thread in the future:
- I very much recommend calling a crisis line, preferably local to the person who is suicidal.
- I do not recommend calling a suicide hotline. You can if you want but if you have limited time/resources a crisis hotline is probably going to be way more helpful. Both to you and the person you are calling on behalf of.
- In this particular situation I do not recommend calling the police. In my judgment it’s doubtful if it would have helped short-term, and I feel like it could have been catastrophic in the long term, because it would have destroyed any trust this person had in me and I’m not sure how alone she would end up being.
- In a similar vein, I am glad I did not bring tumblr administration into this.
All of this said, everything in this is very particular to this situation and also to how my interactions with her felt. In particular the fact that she had a goal (to make it until yesterday) provided me a lot of time that you might not always have for this kind of situation. Getting the police/other authorities involved is probably the right choice especially if the threat of suicide is imminent. I was dealing with a very specific situation here.
Thanks again, all of you. I really appreciate it.
posted by nogoodverybad at 9:21 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Thank you for the update. I'm so glad RESOLVE was a good resource for you.
If you ever get the sense that your acquaintance might want to talk to other people with bipolar disorder offline, there is a weekly support group that meets Wednesday night that is really great. Unfortunately it rarely includes people that young, but they are absolutely welcome. You can look up the group on the DBSA website or MeMail me for details anytime.
posted by Stacey at 11:05 AM on May 1, 2015
If you ever get the sense that your acquaintance might want to talk to other people with bipolar disorder offline, there is a weekly support group that meets Wednesday night that is really great. Unfortunately it rarely includes people that young, but they are absolutely welcome. You can look up the group on the DBSA website or MeMail me for details anytime.
posted by Stacey at 11:05 AM on May 1, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by wonton endangerment at 4:46 PM on April 25, 2015 [5 favorites]