How can I help my new love interest not feel like 'the other woman'?
April 6, 2015 10:10 PM Subscribe
Recently separated after long but loveless marriage. Re-conected with an old colleague. Like her a lot. (I'm wise enough to differentiate btw a rebound and the real thing). Don't want to hide this relationship to friends and acquaintances. But she's worried about my kids running into us together and she doesn't want to be 'the (perceived) other woman' in their eyes. How do I help quell her fears or is she right?
Synopsis: married 20+ years. Last 4-6 years were not much fun. no sex, no communication, no intimacy; more like roommates. I checked out mentally about 2 years ago. Should've left earlier but didn't have the cajones and the kids were just about off to Uni. Now separated about 4.5 months, 59 yrs old. No regrets and I'm much happier. Three months ago I re-connected with an old business colleague. we connected, went out again, and again and it got better each time. I really like her a lot - she feels the same way - and while I'm not going to post it on Facebook, I feel like I'm ok to be seen with her in public or by friends or with business colleagues; she's worried that my kids (21m, 19m, 17f) will run into us somewhere and then, forever in their eyes, she'll be 'the other woman' and they'll never get past that.....is she right and there's no avoiding it? or how can i help her through this?
Synopsis: married 20+ years. Last 4-6 years were not much fun. no sex, no communication, no intimacy; more like roommates. I checked out mentally about 2 years ago. Should've left earlier but didn't have the cajones and the kids were just about off to Uni. Now separated about 4.5 months, 59 yrs old. No regrets and I'm much happier. Three months ago I re-connected with an old business colleague. we connected, went out again, and again and it got better each time. I really like her a lot - she feels the same way - and while I'm not going to post it on Facebook, I feel like I'm ok to be seen with her in public or by friends or with business colleagues; she's worried that my kids (21m, 19m, 17f) will run into us somewhere and then, forever in their eyes, she'll be 'the other woman' and they'll never get past that.....is she right and there's no avoiding it? or how can i help her through this?
Whoa, partner. What's the downside to holding your horses for a little bit? 4.5 months is nothing! And while your kids aren't babies, seeing you with someone new so soon might hurt them unnecessarily before they've had a chance to even process their parents' separation, even though they'll probably intellectually understand things and want you to be happy. Is the divorce forthcoming? Is their mom dating?
I think the new woman is very insightful-- if she's worried your kids aren't going to like her or at least cast her against their mom, she's right on.
Of course you're all adults and can do what you want, but you might want to soberly consider the feelings of your family over your desire to be wild and free right now.
posted by kapers at 10:34 PM on April 6, 2015 [12 favorites]
I think the new woman is very insightful-- if she's worried your kids aren't going to like her or at least cast her against their mom, she's right on.
Of course you're all adults and can do what you want, but you might want to soberly consider the feelings of your family over your desire to be wild and free right now.
posted by kapers at 10:34 PM on April 6, 2015 [12 favorites]
Unless you are in a highly unique and isolated part of the world your 21m, 19m, & 17f will have already realised that you are going to date. Quite possible that they realised it more than 4.5 months ago, depending.
It's almost enough to make me second-guess your consort's motives for keeping things on the down-low. You are not still married, your kids are no longer children...either she is a bit sheltered and/or 'proper,' or (more likely) she is wary of going public with a fellow still counting weeks when tallying up how long he's been separated for. It's rather unsure footing for the other party. You might wait until things are a little further along on all sides before bringing it up again?
posted by kmennie at 10:36 PM on April 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's almost enough to make me second-guess your consort's motives for keeping things on the down-low. You are not still married, your kids are no longer children...either she is a bit sheltered and/or 'proper,' or (more likely) she is wary of going public with a fellow still counting weeks when tallying up how long he's been separated for. It's rather unsure footing for the other party. You might wait until things are a little further along on all sides before bringing it up again?
posted by kmennie at 10:36 PM on April 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
4.5 months is not very long. You are adding all the time your were unhappily married to that total, but your kids may not consider that time. My parents were not very happy but when they divorced it was still a huge shock to us, and when my dad started moving on with someone a few months later, it was fairly hard (I was younger than your kids, but my older siblings struggled too).
It was made harder by the intensity of the new relationship, they moved in together almost immediately and he changed a bunch of things. My advice is to be careful and ensure your new happiness and enthusiasm does not read like a repudiation of your previous life to your kids - they will view themselves as part of that previous life and any perceived rejection or reordering of their priority in your life will really hurt. Go slowly, friend
posted by smoke at 11:07 PM on April 6, 2015 [12 favorites]
It was made harder by the intensity of the new relationship, they moved in together almost immediately and he changed a bunch of things. My advice is to be careful and ensure your new happiness and enthusiasm does not read like a repudiation of your previous life to your kids - they will view themselves as part of that previous life and any perceived rejection or reordering of their priority in your life will really hurt. Go slowly, friend
posted by smoke at 11:07 PM on April 6, 2015 [12 favorites]
My dad started seeing someone a year or two after my parents got divorced. I was about the same age as your kids, and far too busy discovering independence to care much what my parents were up to. At this point they have been married for a decade and she's the person my dad has been with for pretty much my entire adult life.
posted by aniola at 11:14 PM on April 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by aniola at 11:14 PM on April 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hm. My parents divorced when I was 18 (I was away at college living in a dorm) and while the lack of civility bothered me, this sort of thing would have just made me happy for my dad. Do they know what the last few years were like? Are any living at home? I'm with kmennie and aniola on this one.
posted by jrobin276 at 12:14 AM on April 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jrobin276 at 12:14 AM on April 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
So you waited a whole month after ending a twenty year relationship before embarking on another serious relationship? Yet it's not a rebound at all and it's timed to coincide with your children starting uni? Yeah, it doesn't look good. At all.
I believe that you weren't having an affair but from the outside, it basically looks like you were in a miserable relationship, you put up with it until your kids had finished high school, and you had someone waiting in the wings for that to happen and now you two can ride off into the sunset together. And this happened a month after you ended a twenty year relationship.
I would cool things a bit or at the very least be discreet about it. You don't mention that your children were aware about the extent of your unhappiness but I know a lot of children who had no idea that their parents were going to get divorced until they did. Then the idea that they stayed together for six years, miserable, for the kids, made some of these now adult children feel like their whole family life was a sham. Add in a new girlfriend when the marital bed is still warm and it could be a recipe for disaster. You lose nothing by taking things slow but you have a lot to lose by parading your new love in front of your (potentially still reeling) children.
posted by Jubey at 2:19 AM on April 7, 2015 [27 favorites]
I believe that you weren't having an affair but from the outside, it basically looks like you were in a miserable relationship, you put up with it until your kids had finished high school, and you had someone waiting in the wings for that to happen and now you two can ride off into the sunset together. And this happened a month after you ended a twenty year relationship.
I would cool things a bit or at the very least be discreet about it. You don't mention that your children were aware about the extent of your unhappiness but I know a lot of children who had no idea that their parents were going to get divorced until they did. Then the idea that they stayed together for six years, miserable, for the kids, made some of these now adult children feel like their whole family life was a sham. Add in a new girlfriend when the marital bed is still warm and it could be a recipe for disaster. You lose nothing by taking things slow but you have a lot to lose by parading your new love in front of your (potentially still reeling) children.
posted by Jubey at 2:19 AM on April 7, 2015 [27 favorites]
Your kids will be less upset if you a) make sure your wife, their mother, is as content in her life as you are in yours, and is well taken care of, and b) start dating after the divorce is final, so that everyone has a real sense of closure and you are not, in legal fact, dating someone while you are still married.
Point a is probably more important than point b.
Also, getting your kids used to the idea in stages will be helpful too. They're human, just like you are. You didn't just wake up one day and go from happily married to, "Welp, I'm not as happy, time to go". You had a lot of time to get used to each stage of the changes in your life (and I hope your wife did too). This made you open to embracing new things.
In addition, you (and, I hope, your wife) had control over what was happening to you; while your dating a new person doesn't affect your kids nearly as much as it affects you, it's going to be harder for them to accept since they have no control over it. The lack of control itself makes change harder to deal with. So, be gentle with them if you can.
posted by amtho at 4:02 AM on April 7, 2015
Point a is probably more important than point b.
Also, getting your kids used to the idea in stages will be helpful too. They're human, just like you are. You didn't just wake up one day and go from happily married to, "Welp, I'm not as happy, time to go". You had a lot of time to get used to each stage of the changes in your life (and I hope your wife did too). This made you open to embracing new things.
In addition, you (and, I hope, your wife) had control over what was happening to you; while your dating a new person doesn't affect your kids nearly as much as it affects you, it's going to be harder for them to accept since they have no control over it. The lack of control itself makes change harder to deal with. So, be gentle with them if you can.
posted by amtho at 4:02 AM on April 7, 2015
she's worried that my kids (21m, 19m, 17f) will run into us somewhere and then, forever in their eyes, she'll be 'the other woman' and they'll never get past that.....is she right?
She's right that this could absolutely play out that way, yes. Women who engage in relationships with married men are shamed and "othered" for this all the time (because: patriarchy). You, as the man in a hetero relationship, are benefitting from the privilege of not having to see the obvious reputational risk to her.
OP, the real question that jumps out at me is why aren't you the one in your current relationship who is at all concerned about any of your three kids' possible upset feelings here?
posted by hush at 4:34 AM on April 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
She's right that this could absolutely play out that way, yes. Women who engage in relationships with married men are shamed and "othered" for this all the time (because: patriarchy). You, as the man in a hetero relationship, are benefitting from the privilege of not having to see the obvious reputational risk to her.
OP, the real question that jumps out at me is why aren't you the one in your current relationship who is at all concerned about any of your three kids' possible upset feelings here?
posted by hush at 4:34 AM on April 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
she's worried about my kids running into us together and she doesn't want to be 'the (perceived) other woman' in their eyes. How do I help quell her fears or is she right?
Whether she's right or not (and she's predicting something very reasonable), you can quell her fears by honoring them and slowing down. You are fresh out of a longstanding situation and smack in the middle of limerence. Wait until the first blush passes - enjoy getting to know each other - before triumphantly presenting THE NEW PMAN78 to the world.
Your relationship is in its early days. Listen to the person you're in it with.
(I'm wise enough to differentiate btw a rebound and the real thing).
Time will tell. In the meantime, it's not wisdom but hormones and chemicals and emotions that are running the show. Slow down and enjoy the ride.
posted by headnsouth at 5:06 AM on April 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Whether she's right or not (and she's predicting something very reasonable), you can quell her fears by honoring them and slowing down. You are fresh out of a longstanding situation and smack in the middle of limerence. Wait until the first blush passes - enjoy getting to know each other - before triumphantly presenting THE NEW PMAN78 to the world.
Your relationship is in its early days. Listen to the person you're in it with.
(I'm wise enough to differentiate btw a rebound and the real thing).
Time will tell. In the meantime, it's not wisdom but hormones and chemicals and emotions that are running the show. Slow down and enjoy the ride.
posted by headnsouth at 5:06 AM on April 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't think we need to be "shaming" the OP. He was in a loveless relationship for 5 years and he's in his upper 50's - I know from experience that that is a time when one is a lot more interested in "doing" than "waiting".
If it was me, I think I'd talk it over with the lady and settle on The Official Story Of How You Got Together. Which is not to say you should lie - just - you should both agree that you met at work in 2005 and then re-established contact via LinkedIn, etc. And then carefully begin to tell the kids. Who are probably of an age and sophistication that they can handle it.
I'm just a single datapoint, but I would not see the OP with this new person and assume they had been having an affair. From what I've seen and experienced, when couples break up, they quite commonly re-establish links with old friends and associates. And it's not uncommon that there might be a spark.
posted by doctor tough love at 5:10 AM on April 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
If it was me, I think I'd talk it over with the lady and settle on The Official Story Of How You Got Together. Which is not to say you should lie - just - you should both agree that you met at work in 2005 and then re-established contact via LinkedIn, etc. And then carefully begin to tell the kids. Who are probably of an age and sophistication that they can handle it.
I'm just a single datapoint, but I would not see the OP with this new person and assume they had been having an affair. From what I've seen and experienced, when couples break up, they quite commonly re-establish links with old friends and associates. And it's not uncommon that there might be a spark.
posted by doctor tough love at 5:10 AM on April 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do your kids know that this is a permanent separation leading up to eventual divorce? If they were under the impression things were fine all these years, I could see them thinking that the separation is the aberration, or that it's a trial separation that would lead to reconciliation. If the first time they find out that the marriage is really over is the same time they find out about the new girlfriend, I think she's right to fear that they'll direct all the blame onto her.
posted by oh yeah! at 5:33 AM on April 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by oh yeah! at 5:33 AM on April 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
No offence meant- but if I were your love interest and I saw this question I would ask for some space and time from you. Reason- The way your question is set up, it doesn't even mention divorce anywhere. It's just- Was happily married for 20 years, then things got hard so I decided I didn't want to be married anymore, now I'm out and I'm ready to date you. Let me find out and do whatever it takes to GET you, without putting any thought into a divorce or my family. You're not asking how to make this easier for your family to deal with.. you're asking how to make it easier for your love interest. It just sounds like you're mostly just focusing on obtaining this person than you are in taking responsibility for officially ending your marriage and paving a steady path for this new woman to feel secure in.
Whether this is entirely true or just partially so, Maybe she is picking up on this vibe too. Why don't you try asking her what will make her feel better? Does she need the divorce to happen in a certain time-line? Does she know the steps you are taking NOW to speed up the process? If she needs time for the kids to warm up to the idea, how much time is she thinking? Give her a moment to think these through and feel free to give your input as well on these factors. You may be able to come up with a compromise... or maybe you'll just have to adjust to what she thinks is right, in which case you'll have to decide if she is worth it. In the meantime- I know it's been recommended lots of times in metafilter, but I strongly recommend the book Mindful Loving by Dr. Henry Grayson. Even people who are not in relationships find it has great insights for life in general, but it's relationship insights can really help you build the tools needed for peaceful relationships and life. Good luck.
posted by rancher at 6:26 AM on April 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Whether this is entirely true or just partially so, Maybe she is picking up on this vibe too. Why don't you try asking her what will make her feel better? Does she need the divorce to happen in a certain time-line? Does she know the steps you are taking NOW to speed up the process? If she needs time for the kids to warm up to the idea, how much time is she thinking? Give her a moment to think these through and feel free to give your input as well on these factors. You may be able to come up with a compromise... or maybe you'll just have to adjust to what she thinks is right, in which case you'll have to decide if she is worth it. In the meantime- I know it's been recommended lots of times in metafilter, but I strongly recommend the book Mindful Loving by Dr. Henry Grayson. Even people who are not in relationships find it has great insights for life in general, but it's relationship insights can really help you build the tools needed for peaceful relationships and life. Good luck.
posted by rancher at 6:26 AM on April 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't see the upside of letting your kids know about this. Three months is not long enough to be sure this will last. If you are single and dating with small children at home, they always tell you not to introduce people to the kids unless you are fairly sure they will be around for a while. You don't have a bunch of young dependents living at home but still, there is no need to get your kids involved in your dating life. Or as my own father-- surely one of the most socially inappropriate people ever-- put it when introducing his eventual second wife-- "I'll spare you details of my sex life." There is no reason to put them through the ups and downs of your post divorce dating life. If this relationship lasts, you've got all the time in the world to tell them.
posted by BibiRose at 6:28 AM on April 7, 2015
posted by BibiRose at 6:28 AM on April 7, 2015
Response by poster: thanks for all the input. very helpful. When i left i told my kids that i need to find some happiness and joy, they were not the cause and that by doing this they would get back a dad who was happier, nicer to be around etc. They know I'm not coming back. While 4.5 mos isn't very long, given i had checked out 2 yrs ago it obviously feels longer; i am *so* ready to move on (and feel i have) but you're right, my kids are not on that same timeline, so i need to be careful there. I have/had a very solid, involved relationship with my kids and people who know me describe me as 'a great dad'. I think that's why my friend doesn't want me to jeopardize that (and she's right) and why she doesn't want to be 'the one' who caused any grief.
As for the 'what's the rush' Q's, in addition to the above, yes my age plays a factor (59) as well as the fact that i'm 3 years out from having been diagnosed with 2 diff cancers (Skin and Hodgkins). I'm clear but both parents died of cancer and so not sure the deck is stacked in my favour. As a friend said, 'We're all on the back nine but we don't know if we have 9 holes left or 3'. Life is short and my perspective is prob diff than most. Trying to balance the kids best interests (paramount) with mine (secondary) is complex. Part of me wants to say, 'this is me. this makes me happy. i didn't go looking for this but it happened. yes, the timing sucks but it is what it is' (but they may not be ready for that) and the other wants to say nothing.
thanks again for all the advice and counsel. keep it coming if there's anything you want to add.
posted by pman78 at 6:30 AM on April 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
As for the 'what's the rush' Q's, in addition to the above, yes my age plays a factor (59) as well as the fact that i'm 3 years out from having been diagnosed with 2 diff cancers (Skin and Hodgkins). I'm clear but both parents died of cancer and so not sure the deck is stacked in my favour. As a friend said, 'We're all on the back nine but we don't know if we have 9 holes left or 3'. Life is short and my perspective is prob diff than most. Trying to balance the kids best interests (paramount) with mine (secondary) is complex. Part of me wants to say, 'this is me. this makes me happy. i didn't go looking for this but it happened. yes, the timing sucks but it is what it is' (but they may not be ready for that) and the other wants to say nothing.
thanks again for all the advice and counsel. keep it coming if there's anything you want to add.
posted by pman78 at 6:30 AM on April 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Similar aged chikdren and aged children when I left. This is not about my kids, but me. Despite having checked out 5 years previously, I have since learned that the 2 years post marriage I changed enormously while I became used to the "me" post marriage. I did not expect this. I thought I would just feel relief (I did) and have a life without the millstone. There was so so much to learn. A good (male) friend of mine had similar experiences (2 years-ish) in finding the new normal. So, while the woohoo of a new relationship seems fine and dandy (and I did that too, and so did my friend), it masked a lot of changes and learning that had to happen.
Don't worry if you don't believe that it applies to you - I had read similar things, more academically based and I didn't believe it either. It was only on reflection after experiencing it, that I realised what turmoil I was going through.
So, best to be discrete, and take your time, just in case. You have nothing to lose by this.
posted by b33j at 6:42 AM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Don't worry if you don't believe that it applies to you - I had read similar things, more academically based and I didn't believe it either. It was only on reflection after experiencing it, that I realised what turmoil I was going through.
So, best to be discrete, and take your time, just in case. You have nothing to lose by this.
posted by b33j at 6:42 AM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Part of me wants to say, 'this is me. this makes me happy. i didn't go looking for this but it happened. yes, the timing sucks but it is what it is' (but they may not be ready for that) and the other wants to say nothing.
In between is "kids, I'm ready to move on and start a new relationship. What do you think about that?" Make it about you and your kids, but do not involve your current new girlfriend.
Yes, life is short. Take your time anyway. Your kids' lives (and their memories, and the family stories) will go on a long time after you're gone.
posted by headnsouth at 6:44 AM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
In between is "kids, I'm ready to move on and start a new relationship. What do you think about that?" Make it about you and your kids, but do not involve your current new girlfriend.
Yes, life is short. Take your time anyway. Your kids' lives (and their memories, and the family stories) will go on a long time after you're gone.
posted by headnsouth at 6:44 AM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
So you waited a whole month after ending a twenty year relationship before embarking on another serious relationship? Yet it's not a rebound at all and it's timed to coincide with your children starting uni? Yeah, it doesn't look good. At all.
Yeah. If I were your kids, I would assume this woman is the reason for a split. Loveless marriages are hard to see from the outside, especially if you're keeping stuff together for the sake of the kids. You waited a month? No, no, a million times no, do not start showing her off to friends and family. Honestly, the desire to do so makes me think at least partially, you kind of want to prove that the loveless marriage was not your fault, that you're eminently lovable, that you can even find someone so quickly because you are great and your life without your wife is great now.
Also, you say you reconnected with an old colleague. Can you honestly say that when you first worked with her, you had no attraction to her? Can you honestly say that when you reconnected with her recently, you had no thoughts about 'wouldn't it be nice if'? If not, then she is the other woman.
posted by corb at 7:23 AM on April 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah. If I were your kids, I would assume this woman is the reason for a split. Loveless marriages are hard to see from the outside, especially if you're keeping stuff together for the sake of the kids. You waited a month? No, no, a million times no, do not start showing her off to friends and family. Honestly, the desire to do so makes me think at least partially, you kind of want to prove that the loveless marriage was not your fault, that you're eminently lovable, that you can even find someone so quickly because you are great and your life without your wife is great now.
Also, you say you reconnected with an old colleague. Can you honestly say that when you first worked with her, you had no attraction to her? Can you honestly say that when you reconnected with her recently, you had no thoughts about 'wouldn't it be nice if'? If not, then she is the other woman.
posted by corb at 7:23 AM on April 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
she's worried that my kids (21m, 19m, 17f) will run into us somewhere and then, forever in their eyes, she'll be 'the other woman' and they'll never get past that
I was in my teens when my parents divorced and after separation my dad got together fairly quickly with another woman. We'd never heard of her before and then she and my dad were suddenly this serious couple spending almost all their time together. My sister and I used to talk about whether she and my dad had been having an affair. Given the timing, how could we not wonder about that? I don't remember it being a major issue for us (we always blamed our parents, not her, for the divorce as we'd been first-hand observers to how poorly they'd behaved with a each other for the preceding years), but I suppose it could play out differently particularly if your kids didn't see for themselves the problems in your marriage. We were pretty shitty to her for a few years, but that was more about our general unhappiness with the divorce and someone taking our mom's place than the "other woman" issue. Also, we were obnoxious teenagers (your kids are older, which should help.) Long term, everything has turned out fine. Time passed, we became more mature, and we could see our dad was happy.
My take is that her fears are legitimate. Your kids might think that and staying discrete for a bit longer may help. Obviously, though, you two will ultimately need to go public if your relationship continues.
posted by Area Man at 8:06 AM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was in my teens when my parents divorced and after separation my dad got together fairly quickly with another woman. We'd never heard of her before and then she and my dad were suddenly this serious couple spending almost all their time together. My sister and I used to talk about whether she and my dad had been having an affair. Given the timing, how could we not wonder about that? I don't remember it being a major issue for us (we always blamed our parents, not her, for the divorce as we'd been first-hand observers to how poorly they'd behaved with a each other for the preceding years), but I suppose it could play out differently particularly if your kids didn't see for themselves the problems in your marriage. We were pretty shitty to her for a few years, but that was more about our general unhappiness with the divorce and someone taking our mom's place than the "other woman" issue. Also, we were obnoxious teenagers (your kids are older, which should help.) Long term, everything has turned out fine. Time passed, we became more mature, and we could see our dad was happy.
My take is that her fears are legitimate. Your kids might think that and staying discrete for a bit longer may help. Obviously, though, you two will ultimately need to go public if your relationship continues.
posted by Area Man at 8:06 AM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Never overestimate the maturity of your children or how you being with someone other than their mother may hit them. I had a terrible time with my dad moving on with another woman a year after my mom died. And I was 40. It's okay now and he's happy, but I was a wreck for a while. Give them room to feel whatever they are going to feel, even if that's anger at you and your girlfriend. Have empathy for how your actions, however understandable, are irreparably changing their worlds.
Another vote for your girlfriend being the wise one in this scenario.
posted by cecic at 8:10 AM on April 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
Another vote for your girlfriend being the wise one in this scenario.
posted by cecic at 8:10 AM on April 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
The fact that you have a solid relationship with your kids is certainly a benefit. Just remember that "Dad as an entity" is subject to different expectations than "Dad who is also a person." When you talk to your kids about the possibility that you'll be dating, they may intellectually recognize like it's totally okay for you to move on, that you're an adult who deserves to be happy, that they're (basically) adults, that the divorce had nothing to do with them, all the rational thoughts...but emotionally they may be surprised to find that they have some conflicted feelings.
I think it would be fair (and fairly typical) for them to say "good to know, but we do NOT want to hear about or see it yet." If they run into you and your lady in public, I'm not saying you should outright hide or egregiously lie, but play it cool, call her a friend rather than your girlfriend, and no smoochy stuff at all.
I would say that 6 months out from divorce would be a good time for this scenario.
But..."separated" is problematic. You're still married, technically. That technicality is likely to feel meaningful to your kids, even if they know that divorce is coming. You risk getting a very strident reaction about breaking the rules and cheating on their mom by dating before you're really divorced.
posted by desuetude at 8:30 AM on April 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think it would be fair (and fairly typical) for them to say "good to know, but we do NOT want to hear about or see it yet." If they run into you and your lady in public, I'm not saying you should outright hide or egregiously lie, but play it cool, call her a friend rather than your girlfriend, and no smoochy stuff at all.
I would say that 6 months out from divorce would be a good time for this scenario.
But..."separated" is problematic. You're still married, technically. That technicality is likely to feel meaningful to your kids, even if they know that divorce is coming. You risk getting a very strident reaction about breaking the rules and cheating on their mom by dating before you're really divorced.
posted by desuetude at 8:30 AM on April 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Honestly, the desire to do so makes me think at least partially, you kind of want to prove that the loveless marriage was not your fault, that you're eminently lovable, that you can even find someone so quickly because you are great and your life without your wife is great now.
This strikes me as fairly brilliant. You might want to watch out for implicity dissing your ex to your children. "See, I'm away from your mother and I'm all fixed now!" That wouldn't be fair; you're on your best behavior right now and the new woman has not seen all those hard miles with you. Assume that your kids want you to be happy but don't ask too much of them just now.
posted by BibiRose at 8:41 AM on April 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
This strikes me as fairly brilliant. You might want to watch out for implicity dissing your ex to your children. "See, I'm away from your mother and I'm all fixed now!" That wouldn't be fair; you're on your best behavior right now and the new woman has not seen all those hard miles with you. Assume that your kids want you to be happy but don't ask too much of them just now.
posted by BibiRose at 8:41 AM on April 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
Your girlfriend is right, you've gotten a lot of really good advice above. Your kids are all old enough to talk to about this, and you need to do so. You need to lay the ground work that you are dating again, you don't have to tell them anything other than you bumped into an old friend and going on a few dates. They do not want to hear this is the new love of your life, or about how happy you are or any of that. They need to be alerted that you are dating, keeping things a secret added to how fast you started dating this woman really does read to the outsider as she was the "other" woman that broke up your relationship, and if you are as serious about her as you proclaim then you have make sure it is clear to your children that she isn't. Give them a clear this is the time we started dating point, you didn't do it when it first started dating so now you have to make it clear now. Then let them see the relationship evolve into more if it does. Being there for the journey of the relationship will be easier on them than being presented with a finalised "serious" relationship.
You need to be extra careful not to disrespect their mother during this time too, or make them feel they have to take sides when talking to them, by saying how much happier you are, how loveless your marriage was etc. Because what you are saying to them is everything you thought was fake and that is not something you want them thinking when they think about your new girlfriend, that is what will make them think she was the other woman and the "real" cause for the divorce.
posted by wwax at 8:59 AM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
You need to be extra careful not to disrespect their mother during this time too, or make them feel they have to take sides when talking to them, by saying how much happier you are, how loveless your marriage was etc. Because what you are saying to them is everything you thought was fake and that is not something you want them thinking when they think about your new girlfriend, that is what will make them think she was the other woman and the "real" cause for the divorce.
posted by wwax at 8:59 AM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Your girlfriend is right. This runs the risk of looking pretty bad: a relationship four months after the end of a decades-long marriage, with someone you'd known for a while in a business context, is likely to raise a few eyebrows.
And I would definitely dial back on the "I need to find some happiness and joy" stuff, especially when talking to your kids. You have as much of a right as anyone else to pursue happiness, but it's difficult not to interpret that statement as "Kids, you have not made me happy." Or, if you'd stayed married for the sake of the kids: "Kids, you have prevented me from being happy." You want to avoid the cliché of the newly-divorced person running away from their old life and responsibilities and doing a bunch of selfish, short-sighted things in the name of "happiness." You don't want to give the impression that your happiness comes at the expense of the rest of your family.
I think you should proceed very, very slowly if you want to pursue this relationship. I don't think it's a good idea to hide it, because that will look shady rather than respectful, but it isn't a good idea to jump in and advertise either. Take things slow enough that you won't have anything to hide.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:11 AM on April 7, 2015 [13 favorites]
And I would definitely dial back on the "I need to find some happiness and joy" stuff, especially when talking to your kids. You have as much of a right as anyone else to pursue happiness, but it's difficult not to interpret that statement as "Kids, you have not made me happy." Or, if you'd stayed married for the sake of the kids: "Kids, you have prevented me from being happy." You want to avoid the cliché of the newly-divorced person running away from their old life and responsibilities and doing a bunch of selfish, short-sighted things in the name of "happiness." You don't want to give the impression that your happiness comes at the expense of the rest of your family.
I think you should proceed very, very slowly if you want to pursue this relationship. I don't think it's a good idea to hide it, because that will look shady rather than respectful, but it isn't a good idea to jump in and advertise either. Take things slow enough that you won't have anything to hide.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:11 AM on April 7, 2015 [13 favorites]
I would let your kids know you are dating but let a year or so go by before co-mingling your girlfirend and kids at family events / holidays. Basically, compartmentalize your life for a little time so your kids can feel that there was a unit, the unit has split and we can function and be happy with both parts, and the units are moving on.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:16 AM on April 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by WeekendJen at 9:16 AM on April 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
I was in my teens when my parents divorced and after separation my dad got together fairly quickly with another woman. We'd never heard of her before and then she and my dad were suddenly this serious couple spending almost all their time together. My sister and I used to talk about whether she and my dad had been having an affair.
This was my situation, word for word. And we even liked my dad's new girlfriend a lot. However it's good that we did because she suddenly became a non-optional part of my father's life which was sort of frustrating because we didn't know her that well (even though he knew her quite well). And yeah managing this with my mother was a bit of a thing. She wasn't happy about this. We cared about her. It was awkward. So I think you seem to be a little "Hey it's about time for something nice to happen to ME for a change" about this which is normal, loveless relationships suck. That said I think the thing you need to do is really take it super slow with the public face of this and put away your "It's not FAIR" feelings for now. Your kids may be like "Yeah we totally understand" about it or they may be all "We don't like her and she's not part of our family" about it and either way following their lead is going to be the way to go about this. I know it's tough for you to see your family as possibly disparate units (kids, ex, new gf) and not being able to merge them all back together with your home and work life but that's just a thing you may not get for a while. Best of luck, this can go okay.
posted by jessamyn at 10:00 AM on April 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
This was my situation, word for word. And we even liked my dad's new girlfriend a lot. However it's good that we did because she suddenly became a non-optional part of my father's life which was sort of frustrating because we didn't know her that well (even though he knew her quite well). And yeah managing this with my mother was a bit of a thing. She wasn't happy about this. We cared about her. It was awkward. So I think you seem to be a little "Hey it's about time for something nice to happen to ME for a change" about this which is normal, loveless relationships suck. That said I think the thing you need to do is really take it super slow with the public face of this and put away your "It's not FAIR" feelings for now. Your kids may be like "Yeah we totally understand" about it or they may be all "We don't like her and she's not part of our family" about it and either way following their lead is going to be the way to go about this. I know it's tough for you to see your family as possibly disparate units (kids, ex, new gf) and not being able to merge them all back together with your home and work life but that's just a thing you may not get for a while. Best of luck, this can go okay.
posted by jessamyn at 10:00 AM on April 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Speaking as an adult child of (still) divorcing parents. Definitely introduce the idea to them slowly and maybe keep things quiet with the new lady (especially if she's not yet ready to be introduced to your broader world).
However, if it's at all serious, do speak about her from the get-go as a romantic partner. My dad kept referring to his new girlfriend as a "friend" or a "business partner" with me, even though I already knew (from my sister) that they were dating and while my feelings were mixed about that, it really irritated me that he wanted to talk about someone in his life, but wouldn't actually tell me what was going on. It took an already awkward situation and amped up the weird level to 11. So, yeah, when you do talk your kids about your girlfriend, call her your girlfriend.
posted by Kurichina at 12:40 PM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
However, if it's at all serious, do speak about her from the get-go as a romantic partner. My dad kept referring to his new girlfriend as a "friend" or a "business partner" with me, even though I already knew (from my sister) that they were dating and while my feelings were mixed about that, it really irritated me that he wanted to talk about someone in his life, but wouldn't actually tell me what was going on. It took an already awkward situation and amped up the weird level to 11. So, yeah, when you do talk your kids about your girlfriend, call her your girlfriend.
posted by Kurichina at 12:40 PM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't mean this as a callout, but be careful about presenting to your kids (or really anyone) these two conflicting notions:
last 4-6 years were not much fun. no sex, no communication, no intimacy; more like roommates. I checked out mentally about 2 years ago. Should've left earlier but didn't have the cajones.
versus
Life is short and my perspective is prob diff than most.
If your kids get a whiff of you stayed together for YEARS because you couldn't get it together but conversely, life and short and seize the day, it really sounds like you're trying to hide that you left your wife when you found someone new while you were married.
I'm not saying it's true, but I'm saying it could EASILY be perceived this way.
posted by kinetic at 1:45 PM on April 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
last 4-6 years were not much fun. no sex, no communication, no intimacy; more like roommates. I checked out mentally about 2 years ago. Should've left earlier but didn't have the cajones.
versus
Life is short and my perspective is prob diff than most.
If your kids get a whiff of you stayed together for YEARS because you couldn't get it together but conversely, life and short and seize the day, it really sounds like you're trying to hide that you left your wife when you found someone new while you were married.
I'm not saying it's true, but I'm saying it could EASILY be perceived this way.
posted by kinetic at 1:45 PM on April 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
When my parents divorced my dad "started" dating my now stepmother within maybe 6 months of him moving out. My father actually did leave my mother for my stepmother and even though my mother and no one else told me for sure until many years later, I saw through the farce pretty much instantly. However, if I asked either of them, even 20+ years later, they would probably deny it.
I realize that's not the case here, but a lot of people are going to assume that you were having an affair if you start dating someone this soon after separating from your wife, especially since you knew her beforehand. And I doubt there is much you'll be able to say to convince them otherwise.
I would really wait minimum a year before introducing her to your kids. Even absent the appearance of this being an affair, your kids haven't had time to process the divorce, let alone dealing with a whole new person in their life. I think it's fine to introduce her to select close friends, but with the caveat that you both are keeping your relationship low profile for now. I'm not sure at what venues you think you'll unexpectedly run into your kids, but I have to imagine you could pretty easily avoid the issue for a very long time without a whole lot of effort.
posted by whoaali at 4:13 PM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I realize that's not the case here, but a lot of people are going to assume that you were having an affair if you start dating someone this soon after separating from your wife, especially since you knew her beforehand. And I doubt there is much you'll be able to say to convince them otherwise.
I would really wait minimum a year before introducing her to your kids. Even absent the appearance of this being an affair, your kids haven't had time to process the divorce, let alone dealing with a whole new person in their life. I think it's fine to introduce her to select close friends, but with the caveat that you both are keeping your relationship low profile for now. I'm not sure at what venues you think you'll unexpectedly run into your kids, but I have to imagine you could pretty easily avoid the issue for a very long time without a whole lot of effort.
posted by whoaali at 4:13 PM on April 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
All due respect to your recent health issues, 4.5 months is NOTHING in divorced/seperated people time. I doubt you've processed the death of your marriage in that time AND beat cancer twice.
If this relationship is real, she'll still be there after 7.5 more months (which is a full year), at which time, I think enough time has passed whereby you can safely bring the topic up with your kids.
Speaking from personal experience: Please note that the older your kids are, the more likely they will be judging you. Act accordingly if their respect means anything to you and it sounds like it does. Especially if their mother is not taking the divorce well.
posted by PsuDab93 at 1:07 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
If this relationship is real, she'll still be there after 7.5 more months (which is a full year), at which time, I think enough time has passed whereby you can safely bring the topic up with your kids.
Speaking from personal experience: Please note that the older your kids are, the more likely they will be judging you. Act accordingly if their respect means anything to you and it sounds like it does. Especially if their mother is not taking the divorce well.
posted by PsuDab93 at 1:07 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
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