Is this foundation work $5k? or $100k? Who is telling the truth?
March 29, 2015 12:56 PM Subscribe
I was looking at a house. The disclosure said there was a crack in the foundation (link to pic of the disclosure inside). Realtor 1 said it was $5k to repair. Realtor 2 said it was $100k to repair. The house was sold already - but I'm trying to figure out who to trust. How would I go about this?
Here is a screenshot of the disclosure about the Foundation Cracking:
http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q608/fofofoto/Foundation/Foundation_zpsjfyab96d.jpg
Who was telling the truth on this? (Note: This is in the Bay Area - where everything costs more due to the current boom economy.)
Here is a screenshot of the disclosure about the Foundation Cracking:
http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q608/fofofoto/Foundation/Foundation_zpsjfyab96d.jpg
Who was telling the truth on this? (Note: This is in the Bay Area - where everything costs more due to the current boom economy.)
Best answer: You dodged a bullet. Be thankful. Nowhere near 5K, and probably 100K was a lowball figure in SF...run away from foundation repair!
posted by sexyrobot at 1:35 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sexyrobot at 1:35 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Don't trust the realtor. In a similar situation you'd want a minimum of two estimates to look at, I think. I would get reports from at least two independent structural engineers who specialize in house foundations, and then shop the reports around foundation repair specialists for quotes for the actual work.
posted by carter at 1:37 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by carter at 1:37 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Probably neither. One realtor wanted you to buy the house, the other wanted you to buy some other house.
posted by RustyBrooks at 1:37 PM on March 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by RustyBrooks at 1:37 PM on March 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
Best answer: The answer to the question is "neither." Neither Realtor is qualified to make the guess they gave you. Neither is an answer you should trust. The only answers you should trust come from an inspector you hire trailed by a contractor you hire.
Which, by the way, is exactly what it says in the report you linked to. These two Realtors are not "qualified specialists" and in fact, in this instance they are qualified to do nothing more than hand you the piece of paper that report is written on.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:40 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Which, by the way, is exactly what it says in the report you linked to. These two Realtors are not "qualified specialists" and in fact, in this instance they are qualified to do nothing more than hand you the piece of paper that report is written on.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:40 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: To all those who posted that I should hire my own inspector - sometimes that's just not possible. What usually happens here is that a house is listed on MLS on Monday, and then offers are due the next Tuesday. I saw a house that was listed on Monday, and sold on Saturday in the middle of a open house. A person dropped off a $1.4M. (The asking price was $1M. This is normal for this area.)
I've heard there are waitlists to talk to contractors unless you already have an established business relationship.
I know it's my responsibility, but I have a 12+ hour a day job. With prices going up 1-2% each month, it's a bit hard to pull this together.
I was really hoping to find someone to trust.
posted by dogcow2015 at 1:51 PM on March 29, 2015
I've heard there are waitlists to talk to contractors unless you already have an established business relationship.
I know it's my responsibility, but I have a 12+ hour a day job. With prices going up 1-2% each month, it's a bit hard to pull this together.
I was really hoping to find someone to trust.
posted by dogcow2015 at 1:51 PM on March 29, 2015
Best answer: If I'm not confident in my expertise regarding foundations, and cannot access someone who is within a narrow timeframe, then personally, I'd walk away. Probably the only situation in which I would not walk is if I really wanted/needed the house, and also had enough extra cash on hand (say 500k) to put in a successful competitive bid and then maybe repair the foundation if things went south. Maybe like the person who dropped the 400k overbid?
posted by carter at 1:57 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by carter at 1:57 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
> To all those who posted that I should hire my own inspector - sometimes that's just not possible.
If it is not possible, don't buy a house.
> The only answers you should trust come from an inspector you hire
An inspector cannot tell you how much the fix will cost. Only a contractor can.
posted by yclipse at 2:18 PM on March 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
If it is not possible, don't buy a house.
> The only answers you should trust come from an inspector you hire
An inspector cannot tell you how much the fix will cost. Only a contractor can.
posted by yclipse at 2:18 PM on March 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Foundation work tends to be very serious and expensive. If you can't get it inspected because of the issues you list and YOU can visibly see a problem with the foundation, walk away.
Foundation problems are among the scariest and priciest problems a house can have. Almost any other problem is less urgent and less expensive because foundation problems make the integrity of the entire structure literally not on solid ground. As in the house can potentially collapse and fun things like that and then properly remedying it costs big bucks because it is an engineering things, not merely a cosmetics or even basic construction thing. This is NOT a DIY type problem. You hire professionals, not "handymen," and ...yeah. Just walk away from this one.
Best of luck house hunting.
posted by Michele in California at 2:23 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Foundation problems are among the scariest and priciest problems a house can have. Almost any other problem is less urgent and less expensive because foundation problems make the integrity of the entire structure literally not on solid ground. As in the house can potentially collapse and fun things like that and then properly remedying it costs big bucks because it is an engineering things, not merely a cosmetics or even basic construction thing. This is NOT a DIY type problem. You hire professionals, not "handymen," and ...yeah. Just walk away from this one.
Best of luck house hunting.
posted by Michele in California at 2:23 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes, in earthquake territory, foundation problems should mean this is a non-starter. That disclosure report also mentions insufficient anchor bolts.
And with prices rising 1-2% per month, consider that you might be buying near the top of a bubble...
posted by beagle at 2:36 PM on March 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
And with prices rising 1-2% per month, consider that you might be buying near the top of a bubble...
posted by beagle at 2:36 PM on March 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
My realtor included an inspection contingency in our contract. He explained that there are two kinds of inspection contingencies - one where the buyer can say to the seller, the inspector found $x worth of problems, let's renegotiate the price or two, the buyer says to the seller, the inspector found $x worth of problems and the seller says, cool, are you still buying this place? Because we're in a competitive market, the sellers we're dealing with required the second kind of contingency. However, even in that case, we found a broken window and the sellers agreed to fix it.
TL; DR: talk to your realtor about whether an inspection contingency could cover something like that so if you're otherwise interested, you could still potentially put in a contract without getting screwed.
posted by kat518 at 2:37 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
TL; DR: talk to your realtor about whether an inspection contingency could cover something like that so if you're otherwise interested, you could still potentially put in a contract without getting screwed.
posted by kat518 at 2:37 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seconding having your offer contingient on the inspection. We didn't have an inspector in until after our offer was accepted, but retained the right to withdraw if there was anything catastrophic. If the seller won't agree to that, it means they have something to hide or know they can find a buyer with more money - either way, you'd be out if contention at that point.
posted by Think_Long at 2:44 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 2:44 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Sounds like you're just not in a position to buy a house that may need structural work. There are plenty of places out there that won't have that issue, just keep looking.
Unfortunately, a realtor just isn't qualified in any way to tell you how serious an issue is or what it will cost to repair (unless they're talking about cosmetic issues like paint or flooring or something). An inspector can give you an idea of how serious a problem is (and it was our experience in Los Angeles that lots of banks won't finance a home loan where an inspector has identified a serious problem, especially for first-time homebuyers).
Neither a realtor nor an inspector can give you a cost estimate of how much it will cost to fix a problem.
posted by erst at 3:09 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, a realtor just isn't qualified in any way to tell you how serious an issue is or what it will cost to repair (unless they're talking about cosmetic issues like paint or flooring or something). An inspector can give you an idea of how serious a problem is (and it was our experience in Los Angeles that lots of banks won't finance a home loan where an inspector has identified a serious problem, especially for first-time homebuyers).
Neither a realtor nor an inspector can give you a cost estimate of how much it will cost to fix a problem.
posted by erst at 3:09 PM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, if you're going to pay a million dollars for a house, then 100k for foundation work might not be such a big deal. I mean, it's still 100k but in the grand scheme of things...
around here 100k would add 50% to the price of a house, an absolute deal killer.
posted by RustyBrooks at 3:14 PM on March 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
around here 100k would add 50% to the price of a house, an absolute deal killer.
posted by RustyBrooks at 3:14 PM on March 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: >TL; DR: talk to your realtor about whether an inspection contingency could cover something like that so if you're otherwise interested, you could still potentially put in a contract without getting screwed.
I know this sounds crazy, but here in San Francisco / Silicon Valley - you will not win an offer if you have any contingencies. There's an incredible shortage of houses, and an incredible influx of people with money (techies, Chinese money, etc).
The house in question listed for $1.1M (3br/2ba - 2000 sqft). The seller asked for no contingencies, and 2-3 months rent back for free. I heard it sold for $1.6M - possibly all cash.
That's the Bay Area.
http://www.burbed.com/2015/03/30/median-home-price-to-median-income-ratio-in-san-francisco-bay-area/
posted by dogcow2015 at 11:02 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know this sounds crazy, but here in San Francisco / Silicon Valley - you will not win an offer if you have any contingencies. There's an incredible shortage of houses, and an incredible influx of people with money (techies, Chinese money, etc).
The house in question listed for $1.1M (3br/2ba - 2000 sqft). The seller asked for no contingencies, and 2-3 months rent back for free. I heard it sold for $1.6M - possibly all cash.
That's the Bay Area.
http://www.burbed.com/2015/03/30/median-home-price-to-median-income-ratio-in-san-francisco-bay-area/
posted by dogcow2015 at 11:02 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
FWIW, I'm a civil engineer in California with 10 years of experience in structures, 3 of which were specifically residential homes. Speaking as a licensed professional familiar with these very issues, it's impossible to tell from that one page from the inspection report how serious the cracked foundation issue is, or how expensive it would be to fix it, without reviewing the plans, geotechnical information, and either talking directly to the inspector or viewing a lot more photos of the house. Fixing the crack *could* cost $5k, or it could cost much more than $100k - fixing the anchor bolts will definitely be much, much more than $5k.
A realtor can not give you anywhere near an accurate estimate without input from an engineer or very well-experienced contractor, and should not be trusted in the first place if they are at all involved in the sale of the property, since it's a clear conflict of interest. Think of it this way: if you went to buy a car at a dealership, and noticed a nondescript part hanging underneath the engine of the car, would you trust the salesman when he says it's an easy $200 fix at the mechanic? It might be a simple matter of reattaching a non-critical part, but it's potentially a huge issue with the vehicle; moreover, the salesman is motivated to make the sale, and likely doesn't care about anything once the car is sold.
Regardless of how quickly the housing market moves, you are presented with a choice on this house: jump into a huge financial investment with a big red flag, or not. Purchasing this home without more information is taking a big gamble that another Loma Prieta or Northridge won't come along and cause your house to collapse, and whether or not a few other suckers in the market realize it shouldn't sway your decision.
posted by hootenatty at 12:53 PM on April 1, 2015
A realtor can not give you anywhere near an accurate estimate without input from an engineer or very well-experienced contractor, and should not be trusted in the first place if they are at all involved in the sale of the property, since it's a clear conflict of interest. Think of it this way: if you went to buy a car at a dealership, and noticed a nondescript part hanging underneath the engine of the car, would you trust the salesman when he says it's an easy $200 fix at the mechanic? It might be a simple matter of reattaching a non-critical part, but it's potentially a huge issue with the vehicle; moreover, the salesman is motivated to make the sale, and likely doesn't care about anything once the car is sold.
Regardless of how quickly the housing market moves, you are presented with a choice on this house: jump into a huge financial investment with a big red flag, or not. Purchasing this home without more information is taking a big gamble that another Loma Prieta or Northridge won't come along and cause your house to collapse, and whether or not a few other suckers in the market realize it shouldn't sway your decision.
posted by hootenatty at 12:53 PM on April 1, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by erst at 1:05 PM on March 29, 2015 [15 favorites]