Learn to code or stop wasting my time?
March 16, 2015 9:06 PM Subscribe
I am currently learning to code via Codecademy. So far I've only completed one project (in web design), including one page where I couldn't figure out where I went wrong and almost quit, but eventually I got thru it and was glad I didn't.
I'm a woman in her early 50's who can't spend years in school, pay thousands of dollars, work a lot of overtime, or kill herself trying and failing to sell her web design skills to rando businesses. (Although I know that there are support groups to help you with this; Skillcrush emails me regularly with "sell yourself" videos etc. Maybe I should read their emails more. Currently I do Codecademy because it's free and Skillcrush costs a few hundred. But I could move up to something like Skillcrush.)
As an aside, years ago I got an A in a data processing course, learning Basic, & another A in an info science course. So I presumably have some ability. Also, I enjoy it, altho I'm not in love with it (yet?)
My question is, given the above things that I don't feel I can do, should I just forget the whole thing, except as a brain-sharpening hobby?
My question differs from others (that I have so far seen) in that I'm not trying to make a lot of money doing this. I would be thrilled to make $35,000 or $40,000 a year at it (I live in a low cost of living city. I suppose that might translate to $50-$75,000 in more expensive cities).
So, given my low financial goal:
1. What will it take for me to become employable and not struggle to get my first gig or job? What particular things should I learn? How long would it take if I give it, say, 15-20 hours a week?
2. What type of job/ job title(s) should I strive for? How best do I go about getting them?
3. How much will ageism be a factor?
4. And are the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs even tolerable?
Sorry if this is poorly written at all, it's past my bedtime. If y'all agree that I should just "go home, you're drunk", then I will focus my energies on something more likely to bear fruit of some sort.
P.S. Please, no jargon in your answers. Explain like I'm 5. Well, 10 anyway.
P.P.S. I wrote this before I looked up other questions. I still think it stands as a unique question. But feel free to quote from or refer me to answers to other questions, I did see some good answers reading them just now. But I could use more.
I'm a woman in her early 50's who can't spend years in school, pay thousands of dollars, work a lot of overtime, or kill herself trying and failing to sell her web design skills to rando businesses. (Although I know that there are support groups to help you with this; Skillcrush emails me regularly with "sell yourself" videos etc. Maybe I should read their emails more. Currently I do Codecademy because it's free and Skillcrush costs a few hundred. But I could move up to something like Skillcrush.)
As an aside, years ago I got an A in a data processing course, learning Basic, & another A in an info science course. So I presumably have some ability. Also, I enjoy it, altho I'm not in love with it (yet?)
My question is, given the above things that I don't feel I can do, should I just forget the whole thing, except as a brain-sharpening hobby?
My question differs from others (that I have so far seen) in that I'm not trying to make a lot of money doing this. I would be thrilled to make $35,000 or $40,000 a year at it (I live in a low cost of living city. I suppose that might translate to $50-$75,000 in more expensive cities).
So, given my low financial goal:
1. What will it take for me to become employable and not struggle to get my first gig or job? What particular things should I learn? How long would it take if I give it, say, 15-20 hours a week?
2. What type of job/ job title(s) should I strive for? How best do I go about getting them?
3. How much will ageism be a factor?
4. And are the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs even tolerable?
Sorry if this is poorly written at all, it's past my bedtime. If y'all agree that I should just "go home, you're drunk", then I will focus my energies on something more likely to bear fruit of some sort.
P.S. Please, no jargon in your answers. Explain like I'm 5. Well, 10 anyway.
P.P.S. I wrote this before I looked up other questions. I still think it stands as a unique question. But feel free to quote from or refer me to answers to other questions, I did see some good answers reading them just now. But I could use more.
Do you have a sense (yet) of what kind of code-based job you might enjoy or are trying to get? Are you drawn to web design (are you visually creative?) and/or more interested in the "make a computer do stuff" side of things?
For comparison sake, I'm a graphic designer turned UX designer now seriously dabbling in JavaScript for front-end development, aka learning how to make the things I design come to life online. I enjoy the web design because, well, I've always been a designer and I like colors and shapes and making things that people like to use. And I like the coding because in design I usually end up in a state of "okay I think this is the best route!" and in coding I get to end up in "yay it works! Next problem plz." They are both interesting problem domains and scratch different itches.
If you don't yet know what kind of job you might like then I say keep at what you're doing because you are enjoying it. As z11s says, try not to let CodeAcademy itself (or any particular training site/method) bring you down too much.
And: where do you live? It will help scope the answers here.
posted by wemayfreeze at 9:31 PM on March 16, 2015
For comparison sake, I'm a graphic designer turned UX designer now seriously dabbling in JavaScript for front-end development, aka learning how to make the things I design come to life online. I enjoy the web design because, well, I've always been a designer and I like colors and shapes and making things that people like to use. And I like the coding because in design I usually end up in a state of "okay I think this is the best route!" and in coding I get to end up in "yay it works! Next problem plz." They are both interesting problem domains and scratch different itches.
If you don't yet know what kind of job you might like then I say keep at what you're doing because you are enjoying it. As z11s says, try not to let CodeAcademy itself (or any particular training site/method) bring you down too much.
And: where do you live? It will help scope the answers here.
posted by wemayfreeze at 9:31 PM on March 16, 2015
one page where I couldn't figure out where I went wrong and almost quit, but eventually I got thru it and was glad I didn't
That is good. It's essential. Programming can be a lot like trying to work on a car. You have all your tools and supplies and you know what to do! Awesome. But something like a bolt with stripped threads turns up, and you can't remove it. The whole job won't work until you can get the bolt out. But it won't move. Three hours of failed bolt removal later, it still won't move. You need a lot of patience and resourcefulness to get through that. The difference is, in programming situations that feel like that, you often can't see the bolt, or have any idea what is wrong with it, or even know that the bolt is what's preventing you from proceeding.
posted by thelonius at 9:52 PM on March 16, 2015 [17 favorites]
That is good. It's essential. Programming can be a lot like trying to work on a car. You have all your tools and supplies and you know what to do! Awesome. But something like a bolt with stripped threads turns up, and you can't remove it. The whole job won't work until you can get the bolt out. But it won't move. Three hours of failed bolt removal later, it still won't move. You need a lot of patience and resourcefulness to get through that. The difference is, in programming situations that feel like that, you often can't see the bolt, or have any idea what is wrong with it, or even know that the bolt is what's preventing you from proceeding.
posted by thelonius at 9:52 PM on March 16, 2015 [17 favorites]
In my view, there are two major ways software skills can be valuable:
That's an adjacency where the core job function doesn't intrinsically have anything to do with software, but skill in automation and tool-building is helpful. There are also other roles in software organizations that require some software fluency but also aren't engineering per se. In my org, there are QA people, project managers, and documentation/technical writing people. None of them can necessarily write code, but they are conversational in code-like issues and do very valuable work for the organization.
I would say that getting from zero -> professional engineer is a very hard transition for anyone. It's possible, but you're still only getting in at the bottom rung of a long ladder, and ageism will be a factor. But as someone who has had lots of other life experiences, you might find other entry points to the work force nearby to software that would take advantage of those skills too.
posted by heresiarch at 9:55 PM on March 16, 2015 [14 favorites]
- You can be a professional software engineer.
- You can be in many other adjacent fields where being competent at software makes you a superhero.
That's an adjacency where the core job function doesn't intrinsically have anything to do with software, but skill in automation and tool-building is helpful. There are also other roles in software organizations that require some software fluency but also aren't engineering per se. In my org, there are QA people, project managers, and documentation/technical writing people. None of them can necessarily write code, but they are conversational in code-like issues and do very valuable work for the organization.
I would say that getting from zero -> professional engineer is a very hard transition for anyone. It's possible, but you're still only getting in at the bottom rung of a long ladder, and ageism will be a factor. But as someone who has had lots of other life experiences, you might find other entry points to the work force nearby to software that would take advantage of those skills too.
posted by heresiarch at 9:55 PM on March 16, 2015 [14 favorites]
What do you do in your day job? Can you add coding in some form to your current responsibilities? Coding makes a better add-on than a stand alone skill.
3. Ageism will be a factor. Play your larger network to your advantage.
4. Bottom-of-the-barrel jobs are full of interesting problems. Many are in customer service and support. There's also a lot of data entry and updating other people's work.
Good luck. Html is fun.
posted by irisclara at 10:21 PM on March 16, 2015
3. Ageism will be a factor. Play your larger network to your advantage.
4. Bottom-of-the-barrel jobs are full of interesting problems. Many are in customer service and support. There's also a lot of data entry and updating other people's work.
Good luck. Html is fun.
posted by irisclara at 10:21 PM on March 16, 2015
If you're interested in web design and development, going freelance once you build up your skills and portfolio could be an option, too. That way you can work for yourself and ageism would be less of a factor.
Volunteering at code/technology workshops in your area (if there are any) could be a good way to expand your network. Also attending code-related meetups nearby (try meetup.com) could be helpful. I wish you the best of luck!
posted by starpoint at 11:03 PM on March 16, 2015
Volunteering at code/technology workshops in your area (if there are any) could be a good way to expand your network. Also attending code-related meetups nearby (try meetup.com) could be helpful. I wish you the best of luck!
posted by starpoint at 11:03 PM on March 16, 2015
If you want to build web sites I'd start by building them in Wordpress, no code required. As you naturally get better at Wordpress you'll start to wonder how it works, which will lead you back to code again. Learning coding for the sake of learning coding is harder than learning coding because you need to do X.
posted by COD at 5:17 AM on March 17, 2015
posted by COD at 5:17 AM on March 17, 2015
Since a huge salary isn't a priority, try looking into jobs in government and higher education. Ageism will be less of a factor in those fields as well. I would recommend for looking at job postings for those fields in the area you want to live and seeing what languages and skills they require. Then you can adjust your learning--maybe code academy isn't what you need after all.
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:26 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:26 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've been taking web design classes through treehouse, which I enjoy. My husband is a web developer and I told him that I felt frustrated recently because I couldn't figure something out - I just stared at it repeatedly and tried a few different things before asking him to take a look. He said, that's how it is. Sometimes you get stuck. He gets stuck. Sometimes he does something and realizes six hours later that it was wrong. Sometimes he starts something that makes something else on the site stop working and he has to figure out why. But he's been in the field for about 10 years and that's how it is. Getting stuck or having to ask for help don't mean that you're bad at this.
I would try to finish some CodeAcademy classes, then start looking for jobs. Keep in mind you will always have to learn things on the fly and try to solve problems as you go - maybe try to do enough stuff with CodeAcademy that you know where to look when you have trouble. I think the job title you want is "web developer" but it will depend on the organization. Titles aren't always meaningful. I think you apply like you would for any other job but you should have work samples you can show off. My husband keeps telling me I should blog about what I'm learning - that might not be a bad idea for you. If you have a hard time finding a job, try to find a paid internship. If you can't find a paid internship, find an unpaid internship. Jam your foot in the door.
Ageism will probably be a factor but keep in mind that there are good guys out there who want to hire people who don't look like your typical programmer. Plus you probably have some things going for you that a recent college grad doesn't. If you have any work experience, you have demonstrated your ability to show up for a job on time every day and do work. An employer would probably be less concerned that you're going to come in hungover, call in sick when you're not sick, etc. And I think bottom-of-the-barrel jobs would totally be tolerable - if they're not, pick up and leave. Even if you're just getting started, you shouldn't put up with people not being civilized. Good luck!
posted by kat518 at 7:11 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would try to finish some CodeAcademy classes, then start looking for jobs. Keep in mind you will always have to learn things on the fly and try to solve problems as you go - maybe try to do enough stuff with CodeAcademy that you know where to look when you have trouble. I think the job title you want is "web developer" but it will depend on the organization. Titles aren't always meaningful. I think you apply like you would for any other job but you should have work samples you can show off. My husband keeps telling me I should blog about what I'm learning - that might not be a bad idea for you. If you have a hard time finding a job, try to find a paid internship. If you can't find a paid internship, find an unpaid internship. Jam your foot in the door.
Ageism will probably be a factor but keep in mind that there are good guys out there who want to hire people who don't look like your typical programmer. Plus you probably have some things going for you that a recent college grad doesn't. If you have any work experience, you have demonstrated your ability to show up for a job on time every day and do work. An employer would probably be less concerned that you're going to come in hungover, call in sick when you're not sick, etc. And I think bottom-of-the-barrel jobs would totally be tolerable - if they're not, pick up and leave. Even if you're just getting started, you shouldn't put up with people not being civilized. Good luck!
posted by kat518 at 7:11 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just wanted to second the comments about extrinsic vs intrinsic motivations for coding. I think you'll find that most of the young-white-guy programmers that dominate the field right now tended to get interested in computers with a desire to write games. I have pet theories about how this is part and parcel of the whole gender gap due to the feedback loop it creates, but that's another topic.
I got interested in programming and development out of a desire to make things like Metafilter. I was a BBS user, and I wanted to create spaces for people to interact. I got into GNU/Linux because it made my computer seem less like a thing and more like a place. Early Computer Science lacked access to hardware, and was dominated by Theoretical Mathematicians. Some of the greats got into computing via Physics, or Typesetting, or Music, or Archiving, or basically anything new they wanted to make computers do.
Programming is a craft. I think it's useful in the service of some industry. A Librarian who knows how to code is a more popular thing these days, and I think we also have a generation of librarians right now who know when not to code. This is an important thing as well!
So I can't give particularly concrete advice, but I do think that people upthread who are trying to dig deeper into what kind of job you'd want to use programming for are on to something. What inspires you to get involved? What has been the most rewarding aspect so far? What other affinities and skills and experiences do you think you could take advantage of?
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 11:08 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I got interested in programming and development out of a desire to make things like Metafilter. I was a BBS user, and I wanted to create spaces for people to interact. I got into GNU/Linux because it made my computer seem less like a thing and more like a place. Early Computer Science lacked access to hardware, and was dominated by Theoretical Mathematicians. Some of the greats got into computing via Physics, or Typesetting, or Music, or Archiving, or basically anything new they wanted to make computers do.
Programming is a craft. I think it's useful in the service of some industry. A Librarian who knows how to code is a more popular thing these days, and I think we also have a generation of librarians right now who know when not to code. This is an important thing as well!
So I can't give particularly concrete advice, but I do think that people upthread who are trying to dig deeper into what kind of job you'd want to use programming for are on to something. What inspires you to get involved? What has been the most rewarding aspect so far? What other affinities and skills and experiences do you think you could take advantage of?
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 11:08 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
If there's a RailsBridge in your area, you can get a free introduction to making data-driven web apps, which would give you some idea of whether that's your thing.
posted by anotherthink at 11:29 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by anotherthink at 11:29 AM on March 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
You might give some of the courses on Udacity a spin. They've got lots of very practical programming courses in Python and other languages, where they're focused around particular projects, like building web browsers and search engines and what have you.
There are also some really good courses on iTunes University (and OpenCourseWare at various universities). If you wanted, for example, to learn the fundamentals of computer science, MIT offers their entire computer science curriculum online for free. Additionally, there are fantastic courses about building lots of cool stuff, all posted to YouTube for free.
I subscribe to Code School (good stuff, except the stupid hipster music at the start of *EVERY* video), Lynda.com (lots of absolutely astonishing, immediately useful courses), Udacity (very very good stuff), Coursera (a lot of great courses for free), and various OCW courses (especially Stanford and MIT). I also occasionally poke around on Codecademy (decent, but not immediately practical like some of the Udacity stuff or the CodeSchool Angular stuff).
Prices:
posted by phoebus at 1:46 PM on March 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
There are also some really good courses on iTunes University (and OpenCourseWare at various universities). If you wanted, for example, to learn the fundamentals of computer science, MIT offers their entire computer science curriculum online for free. Additionally, there are fantastic courses about building lots of cool stuff, all posted to YouTube for free.
I subscribe to Code School (good stuff, except the stupid hipster music at the start of *EVERY* video), Lynda.com (lots of absolutely astonishing, immediately useful courses), Udacity (very very good stuff), Coursera (a lot of great courses for free), and various OCW courses (especially Stanford and MIT). I also occasionally poke around on Codecademy (decent, but not immediately practical like some of the Udacity stuff or the CodeSchool Angular stuff).
Prices:
- OCW: free
- CodeSchool: $25/month
- Lynda.com: $25/month
- Coursera: free
- Udacity: free (unless you do their new nanodegree stuff).
posted by phoebus at 1:46 PM on March 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Web based isn't the only kind of coding, what are your experiences? Maybe QA with a side dose of scripting and tooling might be of interest to you? Or server side coding? What kind of problems do you like to solve?
posted by captaincrouton at 3:19 PM on March 17, 2015
posted by captaincrouton at 3:19 PM on March 17, 2015
What will it take for me to become employable and not struggle to get my first gig or job?
It very much depends on what type of job you'd like to have, and what the market for those jobs looks like in your area.
If you don't want to program full-time, you can probably get by with basic HTML and CSS knowledge to enhance your overall employability. Many writing and design jobs use a bit of both those languages these days; I'm sure there are other examples I'm not thinking of. They're just trickier to find because there aren't really any job titles that consistently have "a little bit of coding experience" as a primary requisite.
If you DO want to do it full time, keep reading.
What particular things should I learn?
I'd recommend investigating whether you prefer frontend code (HTML/CSS/JavaScript) or backend code (PHP/Ruby/Python). If you decide to go the backend route, you'll want to learn how to work with databases as well--MySQL is a popular one. Once you've made that decision, Google "technical interview questions" for either frontend or backend developers. This will give you a good sense of what other developers are looking for when they hire a new teammate, and what you still need to learn.
How long would it take if I give it, say, 15-20 hours a week?
It depends on how quickly you learn, and again, what type of work you're trying to get.
What type of job/ job title(s) should I strive for? How best do I go about getting them?
For a full-time development job, you'd look for junior [frontend or backend] developer, or junior software engineer.
How much will ageism be a factor?
It varies from company to company. However, developers are in demand right now, so if you can frame your resume well enough to get an interview, the most important factors will be how well you do in your coding tests and whether you and the company/team are a good cultural fit.
I hope this was helpful. Good luck and keep at it!
posted by Owlcat at 4:41 PM on March 17, 2015
It very much depends on what type of job you'd like to have, and what the market for those jobs looks like in your area.
If you don't want to program full-time, you can probably get by with basic HTML and CSS knowledge to enhance your overall employability. Many writing and design jobs use a bit of both those languages these days; I'm sure there are other examples I'm not thinking of. They're just trickier to find because there aren't really any job titles that consistently have "a little bit of coding experience" as a primary requisite.
If you DO want to do it full time, keep reading.
What particular things should I learn?
I'd recommend investigating whether you prefer frontend code (HTML/CSS/JavaScript) or backend code (PHP/Ruby/Python). If you decide to go the backend route, you'll want to learn how to work with databases as well--MySQL is a popular one. Once you've made that decision, Google "technical interview questions" for either frontend or backend developers. This will give you a good sense of what other developers are looking for when they hire a new teammate, and what you still need to learn.
How long would it take if I give it, say, 15-20 hours a week?
It depends on how quickly you learn, and again, what type of work you're trying to get.
What type of job/ job title(s) should I strive for? How best do I go about getting them?
For a full-time development job, you'd look for junior [frontend or backend] developer, or junior software engineer.
How much will ageism be a factor?
It varies from company to company. However, developers are in demand right now, so if you can frame your resume well enough to get an interview, the most important factors will be how well you do in your coding tests and whether you and the company/team are a good cultural fit.
I hope this was helpful. Good luck and keep at it!
posted by Owlcat at 4:41 PM on March 17, 2015
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I would suggest trying other free online venues to expose yourself to as many teaching styles as possible and then try to make a better decision then. These days it is very cheap to get your own server (or shared server from someplace like Linode or AWS) and buy a domain and just test things out. Do you love javascript or do you hate it? Do you enjoy server config or do you hate it? I would suggest experiment with as much as you can and if something sticks, go with that.
Your questions are all over the board but I will just say that there are often many more opportunities for people who know how to code even a small amount than people realize.
posted by z11s at 9:24 PM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]