Baby is Flipping Out
March 8, 2015 7:38 AM Subscribe
My 5 month old baby has learnt to flip from back to front, and does so very often while he's sleeping. Unfortunately, he's not figured out how to flip from front to back yet, and that means he will suddenly start screaming away during sleeptime. This is messing up his sleep schedule, and making him wake up a lot more often that he should. Any ideas what we should do, if anything? And how does this affect any sleep training that we're planning on doing?
He's been a pretty good sleeper till recently; since around 2 months he's been sleeping from around 7pm all the way till 12-2am (~5-7 hours). And after that he promptly goes back to sleep after nursing. We're pretty sure his crying is to do with his flipping, although for the past few days he has been crying even when on his back.
We're roughly following the Healthy Sleep Habits book (Weissbluth), which notes that this is the time at which we should be beginning sleep training. We're planning to go the extinction route (CIO) for night sleep. However, everytime he cries at night, he will eventually flip to be on his tummy, and he does not seem comfortable in this position. He will raise his head up and struggle, and it seems to us that he needs us to help him get back into a comfortable position before he can go back to sleep. Which means we cannot ignore him as is required for extinction. Should we just hold off the sleep training for now until he figures this out?
He has been able to sleep while on his front a few times, but rarely. He generally dislikes tummy time as well, and usually can only be in that position for a while before he starts to protest, similar to what happens when he flips to his front while sleeping.
Temperment wise, he is generally a happy and cheerful baby when awake, only becoming a bit fussy when he's been up too long.
He's been a pretty good sleeper till recently; since around 2 months he's been sleeping from around 7pm all the way till 12-2am (~5-7 hours). And after that he promptly goes back to sleep after nursing. We're pretty sure his crying is to do with his flipping, although for the past few days he has been crying even when on his back.
We're roughly following the Healthy Sleep Habits book (Weissbluth), which notes that this is the time at which we should be beginning sleep training. We're planning to go the extinction route (CIO) for night sleep. However, everytime he cries at night, he will eventually flip to be on his tummy, and he does not seem comfortable in this position. He will raise his head up and struggle, and it seems to us that he needs us to help him get back into a comfortable position before he can go back to sleep. Which means we cannot ignore him as is required for extinction. Should we just hold off the sleep training for now until he figures this out?
He has been able to sleep while on his front a few times, but rarely. He generally dislikes tummy time as well, and usually can only be in that position for a while before he starts to protest, similar to what happens when he flips to his front while sleeping.
Temperment wise, he is generally a happy and cheerful baby when awake, only becoming a bit fussy when he's been up too long.
Best answer: once he figures out this turning thing, he'll start teething, then he'll learn to sit up and not know how to get back down, etc. there are so many things that mess with their sleep habits, if you wait for all of them to be figured out, you'll never end up training him (which doesn't seem like what you want to do).
posted by sabh at 7:51 AM on March 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sabh at 7:51 AM on March 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, this is a pretty common period of wakefulness, particularly for breastfed babies, in part because they've become more distractible during the day. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the flipping thing, or what's going on at night specifically. Google "four month sleep regression" for tips. My daughter's sleep regression ended when I started taking her to lie down to eat in the dark in bed during the day, but her sleep never went back to what it was--she slept through the night early on too.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:03 AM on March 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:03 AM on March 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Weissbluth was my kid's pediatrician when we lived in Chicago. This was about 20 years ago. Unless sleep has changed, follow his suggestions. He is still considered a sleep guru godlike person in our house. I have three children who had great sleep habits and still do. Heck, my 18 year old is still sleeping at 11:04 am.
I would not delay sleep training.
posted by 724A at 8:05 AM on March 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would not delay sleep training.
posted by 724A at 8:05 AM on March 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I bet your son will figure out how to roll back in a couple days. Sooner if you stop doing it for him.
I don't think it'll have any impact on sleep training because as others noted there is always something going on.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:26 AM on March 8, 2015
I don't think it'll have any impact on sleep training because as others noted there is always something going on.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:26 AM on March 8, 2015
Although it seems like it's this way forever and ever at 2am, this stage only lasts for a couple weeks at most. When we were going through the same thing a few months ago, a mom in my moms group who's a PT suggested not only as much tummy time during the day as the kid will put up with, but also some assisted flipping -- when you notice baby is trying to roll while playing, dangle a toy just out of reach or give a little push or lift.
posted by nonane at 8:43 AM on March 8, 2015
posted by nonane at 8:43 AM on March 8, 2015
Best answer: We had the same thing happen 2 weeks after we started sleep training. After a few nights he decided he preferred to sleep on his belly though he still isn't a huge fan of tummy time. We did initially go and flip him back if he woke up before 4+ hours from last feed, but discovered he'd just keep rolling so we had to let him learn to deal with it. We're at 7 months now and expect 1 wake-up at least 5 hours from his last feeding. If he wakes earlier or a second time and fusses more than 10 min, we go to him: It's probably a poopy diaper or he's rolled himself into a position he can't figure out how to escape from (i.e., head in corner of crib with no way to roll or kick himself elsewhere). We help him in both scenarios but keep the room dark and generally act like ninjas doing it.
posted by adorap0621 at 10:43 AM on March 8, 2015
posted by adorap0621 at 10:43 AM on March 8, 2015
My girl had the same problem and suddenly realized a week or so into it that why, she'd actually much rather sleep on her belly, thank you very much.
Agreed with the others though that it should not affect your sleep training. The only thing that would stop me would be illness (nobody likes to learn new things while sick) but there will be plenty of reasons for that kid to wake up in the middle of the night for, oh, the rest of his life.
posted by lydhre at 10:48 AM on March 8, 2015
Agreed with the others though that it should not affect your sleep training. The only thing that would stop me would be illness (nobody likes to learn new things while sick) but there will be plenty of reasons for that kid to wake up in the middle of the night for, oh, the rest of his life.
posted by lydhre at 10:48 AM on March 8, 2015
More tummy time on the floor during the day should have baby figuring out how to flip from front to back shortly. Usually tummy-to-back is first, and when it isn't, it suggests that there may not have been enough tummy time to build that strength.
The worry would be that a flip onto the tummy might place him in a situation where he can't breathe, especially if he's not strong enough on his tummy/upper body to move himself to where he can breathe.
posted by stormyteal at 11:05 AM on March 8, 2015
The worry would be that a flip onto the tummy might place him in a situation where he can't breathe, especially if he's not strong enough on his tummy/upper body to move himself to where he can breathe.
posted by stormyteal at 11:05 AM on March 8, 2015
Best answer: He'll either figure out how to flip back or figure out how to sleep on his tummy. This phase of "I can roll one way but not the other, help!" is obnoxious and seems to last forever, but will actually be over in a week or two.
You will also enjoy the sequel, "Help, I stood up and now I don't know how to sit back down so I can sleep!"
Personally I always just went in and flipped them back the right way, without eye contact or soothing, and it ended in a week or two when they got the next skill, but they'll work it out in a week or two pretty much no matter how you handle it on your end.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:06 AM on March 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
You will also enjoy the sequel, "Help, I stood up and now I don't know how to sit back down so I can sleep!"
Personally I always just went in and flipped them back the right way, without eye contact or soothing, and it ended in a week or two when they got the next skill, but they'll work it out in a week or two pretty much no matter how you handle it on your end.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:06 AM on March 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
If he'll tolerate swaddling, that might keep him from being able to roll over. You need a big swaddler for older babies; I used a cut-up king sized pillowcase that was a few feet long!
I disagree with the consensus regarding sleep training. Starting it up during the very short period when this is an issue is just going to make it harder on everyone unless you have a very easygoing baby, because you'd be leaving him to cry it out in a position he's not used to sleeping in that he can't fix on his own.
posted by metasarah at 4:05 PM on March 8, 2015
I disagree with the consensus regarding sleep training. Starting it up during the very short period when this is an issue is just going to make it harder on everyone unless you have a very easygoing baby, because you'd be leaving him to cry it out in a position he's not used to sleeping in that he can't fix on his own.
posted by metasarah at 4:05 PM on March 8, 2015
I did graduated checkins for sleep training, and that makes it easy to correct things like replacing pacifiers or flipping onto back. That might be a good compromise option for you. Eyebrows McGee also has a good method that would work with extinction otherwise. For most babies, sleep training generally starts working after only a few nights (i.e. less than a week), so the problem will be short lived - and sleep training definitely will have you and baby much happier once you're both sleeping better, so I wouldn't delay it.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 4:22 PM on March 8, 2015
posted by treehorn+bunny at 4:22 PM on March 8, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses! We will probably begin sleep training soon then, focusing on the night time for now since his naps are generally okay. I think bringing forward his sleep time might be a good idea too.
We're hoping he figures out flipping back soon.. it's been around 2 weeks already though. I think it might be true that just leaving him alone to figure it out will work, or at least make him stop struggling and settle down in that position, since he can sleep on his tummy if he wants to. We are concerned about what stormyteal mentioned, that he might suffocate... perhaps we'll just monitor the situation through the webcam we have and intervene only when he appears to be in a dangerous situation.
metasarah: We swaddled him when he was younger, but by around 2+ months he didn't really want it anymore, breaking free from the swaddle each time. An additional complication is that we live in the tropics, and don't have the AC on, so it is a little too warm for him to be bundled up at night. Same goes for things like sleep sacks. We usually just leave him in his sleeping clothes and nothing else.
posted by destrius at 9:57 PM on March 8, 2015
We're hoping he figures out flipping back soon.. it's been around 2 weeks already though. I think it might be true that just leaving him alone to figure it out will work, or at least make him stop struggling and settle down in that position, since he can sleep on his tummy if he wants to. We are concerned about what stormyteal mentioned, that he might suffocate... perhaps we'll just monitor the situation through the webcam we have and intervene only when he appears to be in a dangerous situation.
metasarah: We swaddled him when he was younger, but by around 2+ months he didn't really want it anymore, breaking free from the swaddle each time. An additional complication is that we live in the tropics, and don't have the AC on, so it is a little too warm for him to be bundled up at night. Same goes for things like sleep sacks. We usually just leave him in his sleeping clothes and nothing else.
posted by destrius at 9:57 PM on March 8, 2015
Response by poster: Thought I'd post an update on the situation one week later, on the outcome of sleep training.
On the first night he went to sleep easily, as he always does. A few hours in, he started to fuss and cry, but we left him alone. He cried for 20+ minutes, and then finally calmed down and went back to sleep. When he cried again at around midnight my wife nursed him, and he woke up and cried a few more times that night but only for a short while. The next day he got up happy and smiling, which was great.
The second night went even more smoothly, with him crying only 5-10 minutes once or twice. We also found that he was a lot more comfortable on his tummy while awake as well. The rest of the week was similar; there were some days where he would cry for longer, say almost half an hour, particularly near 10pm, but overall he appeared to sleep better and not wake up so often.
There were two nights however where he woke up at around 3am, and wouldn't go back to sleep. He cried for quite a while, almost an hour on one night, but finally made it back to sleep in the end. We're hoping these episodes eventually disappear once the training establishes itself.
From what I've read total extinction should be over in 3-4 days, but for us it seemed longer (particularly those wakeful episodes). We're attributing that to the fact that we're not practicing extinction during his daytime naps, but going in to soothe him back to sleep when he cries then. We will start enforcing extinction on daytime naps as well soon.
Overall the sleep training seems to have been a success. Thanks to all who suggested going ahead with it!
posted by destrius at 7:40 AM on March 16, 2015
On the first night he went to sleep easily, as he always does. A few hours in, he started to fuss and cry, but we left him alone. He cried for 20+ minutes, and then finally calmed down and went back to sleep. When he cried again at around midnight my wife nursed him, and he woke up and cried a few more times that night but only for a short while. The next day he got up happy and smiling, which was great.
The second night went even more smoothly, with him crying only 5-10 minutes once or twice. We also found that he was a lot more comfortable on his tummy while awake as well. The rest of the week was similar; there were some days where he would cry for longer, say almost half an hour, particularly near 10pm, but overall he appeared to sleep better and not wake up so often.
There were two nights however where he woke up at around 3am, and wouldn't go back to sleep. He cried for quite a while, almost an hour on one night, but finally made it back to sleep in the end. We're hoping these episodes eventually disappear once the training establishes itself.
From what I've read total extinction should be over in 3-4 days, but for us it seemed longer (particularly those wakeful episodes). We're attributing that to the fact that we're not practicing extinction during his daytime naps, but going in to soothe him back to sleep when he cries then. We will start enforcing extinction on daytime naps as well soon.
Overall the sleep training seems to have been a success. Thanks to all who suggested going ahead with it!
posted by destrius at 7:40 AM on March 16, 2015
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posted by destrius at 7:46 AM on March 8, 2015