Puppy Crate Training Woes - even worth the hassle?

January 15, 2015 7:58 PM

Our near 12-week old puppy doesn't seem to have crate anxiety, but really doesn't do well with the confinement/isolation part of the question. She's on her way to housetrained, so should we even try?

Our almost 12-week old Flat-coated Retriever, who we've had for about 3 weeks, has been sleeping in our bed since Day 1 (we allow our older dog to sleep either on our bed or is his dog bed which is right beside us at night). We've also been trying to crate train our puppy with a wire crate (correct size, etc.), getting her used to it by feeding her meals in there and locking her in but sitting nearby for 1+ hour(s). This kind of crate time isn't a problem for her, but if we leave the room or house entirely, it's panic-and-poop-pandemonium. All our attempts to sneak out of the room for even short periods of time result in panic and stress for her that doesn't abate, or leads to her soiling the crate, which no dog should have to be locked into.

We know that crate training facilitates housetraining, but shes actually done really well in that department. She does not soil the bed (we do take her out every 4 hours to pee) and she is doing mostly well in letting us know when she needs out by going to the door to the backyard during the day. So, if we're already on our way to housetraining, do we even need to bother crate training her to an area she doesn't sleep in? We're wondering if blocking off a larger area (ie. kitchen) with outdoor access via doggie door (she's getting to be a pro at using it) is a good alternative to help her adjust to the humans being out of reach, but no so confined that if she has an accident, she won't be trapped in it. Has anyone has a similar type of deal? From previous questions, I get the impression that crate training is more of the thing in the States than elsewhere? Help us not feel like lazy, neglectful pet parents when we're really thinking about if something so stressful is worth having our sweet puppy go through?

It's worth noting that she does really well in the backseat of cars so we don't anticipate her needing to be crated during car rides.

Thanks!

posted by Drosera to Pets & Animals (16 answers total)

If she is potty trained and isn't destructive, I don't see a benefit to crate training her. But is the freaking out about you leaving? I'd be a little worried about what might happen when you leave.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:01 PM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

Look I think crate training is great but it's not for all dogs. Do you crate the other dog?

Out of curiosity, what happens when you leave the dog and she's not crated?
posted by radioamy at 8:07 PM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

The crate training doesn't really seem like the concern here so much as the separation anxiety issue. Please look into techniques for reducing this anxiety, because otherwise this will be a problem in the long-term beyond just the crate. As far as the crate goes, we only used ours until our dog was potty trained. It seems like your dog already has the basics down. However, it doesn't sound like she can be trusted on her own in the house just yet, so probably a lot of folks would recommend she stay in there when unsupervised, for her own safety. Anxious dogs have ways of chewing on wires and other dangerous things.
posted by Angel de Lune at 8:08 PM on January 15, 2015

Response by poster: Sorry to threadsit, but I'll clarify: She doesn't really have separation anxiety. Like if we go to take out the trash, she's fine; if we go into another room, she won't always follow on our heels. She seems more stressed by losing her freedom to choose (she's a true 'murican dog :) ). Not clingy, basically. When we can trust her more not to chew wires or wreak havoc, we don't want to confine her unnecessarily.
posted by Drosera at 8:11 PM on January 15, 2015

I gave up on the crate for similar reasons. I have a pretty awesome adult dog now. There's perfect world and there's real world. Give no crate a try with the roped off area you described.
posted by cecic at 8:47 PM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Our dog never freaked out about being in his crate, but he clearly preferred to be able to get up and settle back down somewhere else. We abandoned the idea in favor of a kitchen gate around the end of the first month (so when he was right around the same age as yours), and it's been totally fine. Mornings are the best part because now he just contents himself with his toys until we come down to let him out. He'll bark if we really sleep in or if something's wrong, but there's no more whining at the first crack of dawn. Glorious.

I would still consider a harness for the car, because you don't want her becoming a projectile.
posted by teremala at 8:50 PM on January 15, 2015

I'm not sure how Flat coated Retrievers compare to labs, but I had a lab puppy and crate training her was valuable mainly because it was a LONG time before she could be trusted not to chew on/eat/destroy things while I was away. Like 2 years.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:24 PM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

We started with a crate and that turned into a pen. We have encouraged our puppy to sleep in his pen by making it fun — we keep some of his toys in there, and we give him treats and encouragement when he goes in. When we leave for work during the day, we almost always give him a Kong toy filled with a little peanut butter — this makes him associate us leaving with getting a nice treat. The key, I think, is making a necessary experience (necessary for us, given our schedules) pleasant and fun for our little man.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:52 PM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

My dog was never really into the crate so I stopped using it at around 6 months or so and never had a problem. I did however keep him in a confined, puppy-proofed area when I was gone until he was about 18 months. This was mainly to make him less anxious, YMMV.

Lots of dogs end up liking their crates but mine definitely was not one of them!
posted by lunasol at 11:25 PM on January 15, 2015

Personally, I think crate training is really useful, and you've only been at it a few weeks so I think you should keep at it. Some dogs take to it more naturally than others.

How big is the crate ? Try making it smaller by creating a barrier inside so that the pup only barely has room to turn around. Also, try to do it shortly after a potty break. Those two things should help reduce accidents.

Also, start with shorter, more frequent, intervals. Say, crate him for 5-10 minutes every hour, then a few times an hour, and then lengthen the time gradually. That's what we had to do with our Vizsla, who was tough to train and who still doesn't really care for the crate but has taken to it well enough.

And is there a treat he's pretty crazy for ? Ours was nuts for cheese or tuna, so he got some of that every time he went in the crate.

It took a while, but it is so handy being able to crate our dogs when we need to. I really recommend toughing it out.

we've even trained them to go in the crate when the doorbell rings. Makes it so much easier to answer the door.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:30 PM on January 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

Have you considered covering the crate with a sheet or towel to cut down on her visual stimulation? It may or may not help.

I know that those wire crates are popular but my little dog prefers the solid sided crate. He loves his crate, cries if he can't get into whenever he wants, and it was a sanity saver the first two years of his slow growing up.
posted by cairnoflore at 11:36 PM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

Crate training is definitely more of an American thing. As in, I have been around dogs and their owners my whole life, and I had literally never heard of crate training until Metafilter.

If it helps in your decision, dog owners in Australia manage to house-train their dogs and wind up with happy, well-behaved pets without crate-training. Therefore, whilst I understand that some dogs apparently take to it and enjoy it, if yours doesn't then I don't see the point in persevering.
posted by Salamander at 11:53 PM on January 15, 2015 [8 favorites]

Echoeing Salamander, I've never seen dog crates used except for transportation here in Europe.
posted by mumimor at 4:23 AM on January 16, 2015 [2 favorites]

When Sissy adopted her heartworm+ puppy Mischa she was told to keep her in the crate to facilitate calm. (Apparently that's a thing when dogs are on heartworm meds.) Mischa would whimper, whine, howl and stress herself out completely. Pretty much the opposite of what was intended. Sissy gave up and let her out of the crate. Mischa is now healthy and happy.

If you're getting the results you like, the method isn't that important.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:27 AM on January 16, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Chiming in since others said this, but crating is kind of a weird tradition that in many quarters isn't considered very appropriate. I grew up in the rural, southern US on a farm that also housed a lot of beagles, and crating was very much taboo. Not all dogs react alike in them, including with toilet training, and the few occasions where our family did turn to a crate made the dog more anxious instead of less. The animal husbandry side of the family insisted on just going with life stage-appropriate training techniques, which included a recognition that little dogs are sometimes going to pee or be incontinent and those problems will resolve with age. [For what it's worth, my folks' take on this (both of whom went to college for husbandry, etc.) is that crates exist to be sold by manufacturers, not because they provide any kind of real impact on behavioral adjustment. Total aside there, but I think this is why crating seems so strange to some people who didn't grow up habituated to the concept.]

We're wondering if blocking off a larger area (ie. kitchen) with outdoor access via doggie door (she's getting to be a pro at using it) is a good alternative to help her adjust to the humans being out of reach, but no so confined that if she has an accident, she won't be trapped in it.

Is there a reason this wouldn't be a better solution? This seems like a pretty good approach, more in line with letting the dog develop its natural tendencies to relieve itself when it needs to rather than as long as it can manage to hold it, and learn to hold it. If a doggy door is available, this sounds super reasonable.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:49 AM on January 16, 2015 [3 favorites]

Best answer: You can try some of the click & treat techniques recommended by Emily Larlham, an excellent dog training -- aka Kikopup. Her YouTube videos are excellent. You could start with Puppy Crate Training and How to Train your Dog to be left Alone.

Dr. Sophia Yin's book Perfect Puppy in 7 Days explains in detail how to design a crate in a penned in for your puppy to help with potty training, leaving her alone, and also help direct chewing to appropriate items.

If you have any thoughts of doing a dog sport with your pup, crate-training is a must. I never considered that our dogs would do any formal sport, but then discovered that Smokey Rose absolutely adores --and excels at -- K9 Nose Work. So it's taking longer, but now Smokey Rose and her Bandit are becoming crate-trained. She'll be ready for her first trial one of these days.
posted by apennington at 10:53 AM on January 16, 2015