Help lure my introverted, Aspergers son away from the screen!
January 2, 2015 10:33 AM
My 17-year-old son sits in front of a computer screen (well, 2 screens since Xmas) ALL DAY every day, and it's making me crazy.
He has no friends and no interest in stuff in the outside world. He just wants to play computer games and watch videos. It's hard to even get him to come to the movies--he doesn't want to leave his games and he'll just download any movies he wants to see. This feels especially acute since we're at the tail end of an endless vacation where he sat as his desk for up to 18 hours every day!
He is a lovely, introspective, compassionate boy. He is also very introverted and is on the very high-functioning end of the Autism spectrum. He is friendly with some kids at school, but has almost never connected with anyone outside of school since elementary-school "playdates." He even started a video game club this year, which is well attended. He enjoys the club meetings (in a school classroom once a week), but is exhausted afterwards, to the point of feeling vaguely unwell. And each week on the day before the club meeting he almost starts to dread going; I help him by reminding him that he has told me repeatedly that he always ends up having a good time. I have asked him probing questions about what happens, group dynamics, any feelings of being unliked, etc. He can't identify anything negative at all, just that he gets a little overwhelmed by the end from having to socialize. But he has a good time. In talking to his teachers and special ed support people, we think he has not experienced any harrassment and is not generally disliked. But I think he is not especially liked, either. He is also bothered by being alone all the time and has said he is lonely. If he seemed content to be alone, then I feel like I could push more for him to do things on his own. But since he's not, it seems sad and cruel to push him when he has no one to do stuff with.
Over the years I've talked to him a lot about making friends and we've worked on scripts and how to approach people. I will frequently suggest he contact the few kids he's friendly with at school to suggest coming over or going into the city or whatever, but it's very hard for him. And it seems that when he does finally get up the courage to do it, no one is ever available. I don't know if the kids are blowing him off, or if they're actually busy. Neither does he. I don't want to keep pushing him to keep asking and asking if it makes him look needy to them.
We're lucky enough to live in a town where there's some access to woodsy "natural" areas, as well as quick easy public transportation access to a small college-centric city (as well as a big city) that's a magnet for teens. At my urging he'll take the bus there about once a month, where he goes to the comic book store, has a slice of pizza, then comes home. But he has no one to do stuff or hang out with, and doing stuff alone gets really old. He has no interest at all in the woods or natural settings. No interest in the vast wealth of museums and other cultural resources in our area. He has a kind of crappy bike (we can't afford a decent one), and when I do force him to take a ride, he admits he enjoys it, but it's a real fight every time to get him to do it--we live on a small hill and he has very limited stamina and hates getting tired. Last summer I started pushing him to go for short runs, which he agrees is a good idea and doesn't hate, but, again, I have to push really hard every time. And this is a kid who needs hard and repeated pushing for EVERYTHING: take a shower, go to bed, do your homework, eat something, feed the cats, take out the trash, come out to see a movie in a theater, etc. I'm so tired of pushing! And mostly I feel like I'm being really mean pushing him to do anything other than play computer games or watch videos when anything he does is done alone.
I think he could deal with working a few hours a week and he says he likes the idea of making money, but aside from the extreme scarcity of appropriate jobs in the area, he will NOT follow-up.
He has no internal motivation to do anything other than sit in front of the computer for hours and hours. I have no problem--in principle--with severely limiting those hours, but I feel like there's no alternative activity since anything he would do would be done alone. His providers and I keep a very close watch for signs of depression as we agree he's vulnerable, but I don't think that's really the issue at this point.
By the way, we work with his various providers on the bigger-picture stuff like finding support groups, so I'm not looking for help with how to deal with Aspergers or anything. I guess I'm basically asking for suggestions or support with my distress at the unhealthiness of him spending so very much time staring at screens but also feeling terrible about pushing him to leave the screen when he has no one to do stuff with.
He has no friends and no interest in stuff in the outside world. He just wants to play computer games and watch videos. It's hard to even get him to come to the movies--he doesn't want to leave his games and he'll just download any movies he wants to see. This feels especially acute since we're at the tail end of an endless vacation where he sat as his desk for up to 18 hours every day!
He is a lovely, introspective, compassionate boy. He is also very introverted and is on the very high-functioning end of the Autism spectrum. He is friendly with some kids at school, but has almost never connected with anyone outside of school since elementary-school "playdates." He even started a video game club this year, which is well attended. He enjoys the club meetings (in a school classroom once a week), but is exhausted afterwards, to the point of feeling vaguely unwell. And each week on the day before the club meeting he almost starts to dread going; I help him by reminding him that he has told me repeatedly that he always ends up having a good time. I have asked him probing questions about what happens, group dynamics, any feelings of being unliked, etc. He can't identify anything negative at all, just that he gets a little overwhelmed by the end from having to socialize. But he has a good time. In talking to his teachers and special ed support people, we think he has not experienced any harrassment and is not generally disliked. But I think he is not especially liked, either. He is also bothered by being alone all the time and has said he is lonely. If he seemed content to be alone, then I feel like I could push more for him to do things on his own. But since he's not, it seems sad and cruel to push him when he has no one to do stuff with.
Over the years I've talked to him a lot about making friends and we've worked on scripts and how to approach people. I will frequently suggest he contact the few kids he's friendly with at school to suggest coming over or going into the city or whatever, but it's very hard for him. And it seems that when he does finally get up the courage to do it, no one is ever available. I don't know if the kids are blowing him off, or if they're actually busy. Neither does he. I don't want to keep pushing him to keep asking and asking if it makes him look needy to them.
We're lucky enough to live in a town where there's some access to woodsy "natural" areas, as well as quick easy public transportation access to a small college-centric city (as well as a big city) that's a magnet for teens. At my urging he'll take the bus there about once a month, where he goes to the comic book store, has a slice of pizza, then comes home. But he has no one to do stuff or hang out with, and doing stuff alone gets really old. He has no interest at all in the woods or natural settings. No interest in the vast wealth of museums and other cultural resources in our area. He has a kind of crappy bike (we can't afford a decent one), and when I do force him to take a ride, he admits he enjoys it, but it's a real fight every time to get him to do it--we live on a small hill and he has very limited stamina and hates getting tired. Last summer I started pushing him to go for short runs, which he agrees is a good idea and doesn't hate, but, again, I have to push really hard every time. And this is a kid who needs hard and repeated pushing for EVERYTHING: take a shower, go to bed, do your homework, eat something, feed the cats, take out the trash, come out to see a movie in a theater, etc. I'm so tired of pushing! And mostly I feel like I'm being really mean pushing him to do anything other than play computer games or watch videos when anything he does is done alone.
I think he could deal with working a few hours a week and he says he likes the idea of making money, but aside from the extreme scarcity of appropriate jobs in the area, he will NOT follow-up.
He has no internal motivation to do anything other than sit in front of the computer for hours and hours. I have no problem--in principle--with severely limiting those hours, but I feel like there's no alternative activity since anything he would do would be done alone. His providers and I keep a very close watch for signs of depression as we agree he's vulnerable, but I don't think that's really the issue at this point.
By the way, we work with his various providers on the bigger-picture stuff like finding support groups, so I'm not looking for help with how to deal with Aspergers or anything. I guess I'm basically asking for suggestions or support with my distress at the unhealthiness of him spending so very much time staring at screens but also feeling terrible about pushing him to leave the screen when he has no one to do stuff with.
Also, are there volunteer opportunities in your area? Maybe he can teach computer skills to the elderly or computer illiterate. Maybe he can volunteer at a food bank?
posted by discopolo at 10:50 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by discopolo at 10:50 AM on January 2, 2015
Does he like animals? It's very common to find people like your son working with animals in my experience. A structured environment like a doggy daycare or boarding kennel might be a good job. It'll be part time and he won't have to interact with people hardly at all. My dog goes to a daycare where they literally pay teens to come play with the dogs 30-40 minutes a day in the afternoon.
posted by fshgrl at 10:51 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by fshgrl at 10:51 AM on January 2, 2015
I have boys who are not on the spectrum. I have to push them too. They love video games and their computers. If it were up to them, they would never leave.
When it comes to outings together, don't ask. Tell. "We're going out, get ready." Once they're out on their own, or when we're on an outing together, they have fun. It's tricky because your child is older and nearing adult age. I say keep gently forcing and keep bringing him out on outings while you can. Good luck.
posted by Fairchild at 10:56 AM on January 2, 2015
When it comes to outings together, don't ask. Tell. "We're going out, get ready." Once they're out on their own, or when we're on an outing together, they have fun. It's tricky because your child is older and nearing adult age. I say keep gently forcing and keep bringing him out on outings while you can. Good luck.
posted by Fairchild at 10:56 AM on January 2, 2015
Does money motivate him at all? Paying him to run, or whatever kind of activity (like karate? volunteering?) may work. Or make him get a job. The key is never giving him free money at all otherwise. If he wants money he has to earn it. It's not a discussion, it's the house rule.
And if he wants to continue living in your house past 18, he has to do his chores (and on time!) or he can't live there anymore. It has to be a hard line and he has to know it, no re-negging. The other condition will have to be doing something towards being independent, like getting a job, working towards a career. No living at home forever, you have to figure out a plan and be working on it.
My parents constantly nag my youngest sister, they always have. And as she's passive-aggressive, it has become a vicious circle - they nag, she procrastinates further, they nag more... they also bail her out constantly with money. It's improved somewhat by them cutting her off financially, so she's become more financially responsible through her own learning. I've noticed she also does better when my parents stop nagging her and just leave her to her own devices, aside from them stepping in occasionally to remind her of the hard-and-fast rules of living at home (or gtfo).
posted by lizbunny at 10:58 AM on January 2, 2015
And if he wants to continue living in your house past 18, he has to do his chores (and on time!) or he can't live there anymore. It has to be a hard line and he has to know it, no re-negging. The other condition will have to be doing something towards being independent, like getting a job, working towards a career. No living at home forever, you have to figure out a plan and be working on it.
My parents constantly nag my youngest sister, they always have. And as she's passive-aggressive, it has become a vicious circle - they nag, she procrastinates further, they nag more... they also bail her out constantly with money. It's improved somewhat by them cutting her off financially, so she's become more financially responsible through her own learning. I've noticed she also does better when my parents stop nagging her and just leave her to her own devices, aside from them stepping in occasionally to remind her of the hard-and-fast rules of living at home (or gtfo).
posted by lizbunny at 10:58 AM on January 2, 2015
I came to say what fshgirl just said. If he likes animals, there are usually at least some volunteer opportunities available, and you get some social interaction with other people in a peripheral way, many of whom are also more comfortable interacting with non-human animals.
Generally, socializing for the sake of socializing is weird and often difficult, so I think the best approach is project or interest-based associations, where there's not that pressure to make small talk, and human connections come slowly, in small, non-compulsory doses.
To that end, picking up a new hobby would be a good approach. For technical hobbies, there may be hackerspaces in your area with cool tools and resources not available at home. Some areas also have film clubs that will show film series and have lectures and things, where you're not required to and often aren't allowed to do heavy duty interactions. Or community college courses, basically anything that is interest based and unlikely to include sitting in a circle introducing yourself.
posted by ernielundquist at 11:07 AM on January 2, 2015
Generally, socializing for the sake of socializing is weird and often difficult, so I think the best approach is project or interest-based associations, where there's not that pressure to make small talk, and human connections come slowly, in small, non-compulsory doses.
To that end, picking up a new hobby would be a good approach. For technical hobbies, there may be hackerspaces in your area with cool tools and resources not available at home. Some areas also have film clubs that will show film series and have lectures and things, where you're not required to and often aren't allowed to do heavy duty interactions. Or community college courses, basically anything that is interest based and unlikely to include sitting in a circle introducing yourself.
posted by ernielundquist at 11:07 AM on January 2, 2015
I was your son, though I am not officially on the spectrum (my parents believe I am, though, since they are). He sounds like he lives in his head a lot, and I did that because everything around me that involved other human beings was so baffling that I just preferred virtual reality where I could understand all the rules. I also had dysthymia, low level depression caused by loneliness and a thyroid problem, which fed on itself and made me less motivated to come out of my mind when opportunities presented themselves. Maybe he's a little depressed too, though it's going to be harder for him to treat that if he's opposed to the outdoors and exercise.
I think the only thing you can do here is insist that he still help around the house and stick to a schedule that involves him being clean and tidy, but everything else is his business and under his purview. He may come into his own eventually. Let him get there in his own way.
posted by Hermione Granger at 11:13 AM on January 2, 2015
I think the only thing you can do here is insist that he still help around the house and stick to a schedule that involves him being clean and tidy, but everything else is his business and under his purview. He may come into his own eventually. Let him get there in his own way.
posted by Hermione Granger at 11:13 AM on January 2, 2015
This answers your header question rather than the 'more inside,' but...might he be interested in something like geocaching, where there's manageable online interaction as well as an impetus to go outside? Especially if the video games he's into have large maps to explore, there might be some affinity there.
posted by gnomeloaf at 11:15 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by gnomeloaf at 11:15 AM on January 2, 2015
what about knitting? a lot of men are doing it now, it is very calming.
posted by TRUELOTUS at 11:18 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by TRUELOTUS at 11:18 AM on January 2, 2015
I think the best strategy for you personally is to concentrate on helping him with cleanliness - personal hygiene, knowing how to do chores from start to finish and really caring about the outcome. None of the other good stuff you want for him can happen without this, but neither can you really help him with that anyway (as you've found).
posted by bleep at 11:20 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by bleep at 11:20 AM on January 2, 2015
You said he enjoys running when forced. It's almost time for track season to start. At most high schools, track is not a "try out and get cut" kind of sport, but one that has room for anyone who shows up. It's hard to talk a lot while running, so the socializing at practice and at meets largely revolves around complaining about being tired. My parents required me to go out for track in 8th grade for basically exactly the reasons you are stating (not that I'm on the spectrum, but that I needed to get away from screens), and I stuck with it through high school.
posted by hydropsyche at 11:21 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by hydropsyche at 11:21 AM on January 2, 2015
I've dealt with something a bit like this - it (mostly) ended when he went off to college.
For sure, keep him involved in chores, with no exceptions. And yes, you have to "tell", you can't "ask". Get t a timer - if he says "yes I'll do it, give me 15 minutes", set the timer.
What kinds of games is he playing? A number of popular current games have a voice component, where the player has to interact with other people. I would encourage him to play those kinds of games. This also allows you to have some kind of idea as to what he's up to (as you'll be hearing at least half of his conversations)(when I was active in Second Life, I met a fellow who'd started cybersexing when he was 11yo (!!!). Call it a privacy violation if you wanna, but whatever is happening on my internet at my house is open for my inspection).
Make him read books. Real, paper books. At least an hour a day - discuss the book with him afterwards. Make exercise part of the daily routine: 1:30pm is bike time (for instance).
If he's downloading movies, you should have a talk with him about copyright and the MPAA. If he's involved with anything on TOR, you *really* need to keep an eye on that, and probably outright forbid it.
Re games: find out what he's playing and if he's any good at them. If he's still at the bottom of League of Legends, encourage him to get better - give him a goal he can work towards, one that he can be proud of.
See if he has any ideas on making money with his skills. There are video channels where people will pay to watch especially good fighters go at it. Can he be one of them?
Can you encourage the formation of a local Guild? The idea being these are people he can game with and also socialize with in RL.
Are his social skills good enough that he could, say, help a neighbor set up a website? If so, that could be a nice job for him right there.
Does he show any propensity towards building or programming computers? If so, encourage that stuff! Maybe he'll have friends who would pay for a custom hot rodeo game machine?
posted by doctor tough love at 11:25 AM on January 2, 2015
For sure, keep him involved in chores, with no exceptions. And yes, you have to "tell", you can't "ask". Get t a timer - if he says "yes I'll do it, give me 15 minutes", set the timer.
What kinds of games is he playing? A number of popular current games have a voice component, where the player has to interact with other people. I would encourage him to play those kinds of games. This also allows you to have some kind of idea as to what he's up to (as you'll be hearing at least half of his conversations)(when I was active in Second Life, I met a fellow who'd started cybersexing when he was 11yo (!!!). Call it a privacy violation if you wanna, but whatever is happening on my internet at my house is open for my inspection).
Make him read books. Real, paper books. At least an hour a day - discuss the book with him afterwards. Make exercise part of the daily routine: 1:30pm is bike time (for instance).
If he's downloading movies, you should have a talk with him about copyright and the MPAA. If he's involved with anything on TOR, you *really* need to keep an eye on that, and probably outright forbid it.
Re games: find out what he's playing and if he's any good at them. If he's still at the bottom of League of Legends, encourage him to get better - give him a goal he can work towards, one that he can be proud of.
See if he has any ideas on making money with his skills. There are video channels where people will pay to watch especially good fighters go at it. Can he be one of them?
Can you encourage the formation of a local Guild? The idea being these are people he can game with and also socialize with in RL.
Are his social skills good enough that he could, say, help a neighbor set up a website? If so, that could be a nice job for him right there.
Does he show any propensity towards building or programming computers? If so, encourage that stuff! Maybe he'll have friends who would pay for a custom hot rodeo game machine?
posted by doctor tough love at 11:25 AM on January 2, 2015
I think it's possible you've done what you can. Pardon my telling a personal story, here, but...this could have been me - when I was 10, not 17, but everyone operates on their own timetable - and I resisted and refused any and all opportunities to push me to be different. Here's me today: I have an active social life, I love outdoor activities, I not only practice excellent hygiene but have become interested in fashion and style, I have a job and a handful of clubs/groups I'm a part of to boot. I'm living a happy independent life. The only thing that got me here was my own desire to do so.
My guess is that being on the computer is an activity that makes your son feel safe and normal, like it was for me, and that's why he gravitates toward it. We all need a safe place. That's important.
I think you're right to continue to encourage him to do things where he'll have more responsibilities and meet other people (the gaming club sounds great and being exhausted like that after social activities is something that lots of high-achieving adults still deal with), and yes, things like chores and hygiene can be made non-optional rules while he's under your roof, but ultimately his life is his own and the choice is his to make. My guess is it won't take him the rest of his life to figure it out.
posted by capricorn at 11:29 AM on January 2, 2015
My guess is that being on the computer is an activity that makes your son feel safe and normal, like it was for me, and that's why he gravitates toward it. We all need a safe place. That's important.
I think you're right to continue to encourage him to do things where he'll have more responsibilities and meet other people (the gaming club sounds great and being exhausted like that after social activities is something that lots of high-achieving adults still deal with), and yes, things like chores and hygiene can be made non-optional rules while he's under your roof, but ultimately his life is his own and the choice is his to make. My guess is it won't take him the rest of his life to figure it out.
posted by capricorn at 11:29 AM on January 2, 2015
As someone that mostly gamed and surfed the web in high school through the present day, the problem is not so much the screen time as the quality of the time. Being social is about sharing things that other people are curious about. Some of his peers share interests with your son, if his video game club is well attended. Maybe he could invite someone over that also plays the same games?
Most of the current popular games have javascript APIs. He could take a udacity course like this one to learn the fundamentals, and could perhaps dervive job skills from what he is already doing.
posted by benoit at 11:33 AM on January 2, 2015
Most of the current popular games have javascript APIs. He could take a udacity course like this one to learn the fundamentals, and could perhaps dervive job skills from what he is already doing.
posted by benoit at 11:33 AM on January 2, 2015
I would make continued free access to the screen-bearing devices and internet services you're providing contingent upon his securing employment or continuing his education.
You're not being mean by pushing him. It's the kindest thing you can do, really. As a self-sufficient adult, it would be his right to spend all his free time gaming or whatever, if that's what he wants to do. But don't enable him doing that to the exclusion of developing life skills while you're supporting him.
You can't really force him to be interested in outdoorsy or cultural things. All you can do is provide opportunities for him to be exposed to them, and hope something sticks.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:38 AM on January 2, 2015
You're not being mean by pushing him. It's the kindest thing you can do, really. As a self-sufficient adult, it would be his right to spend all his free time gaming or whatever, if that's what he wants to do. But don't enable him doing that to the exclusion of developing life skills while you're supporting him.
You can't really force him to be interested in outdoorsy or cultural things. All you can do is provide opportunities for him to be exposed to them, and hope something sticks.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:38 AM on January 2, 2015
What about volunteering? Does he like animals at all? Specifically, I'm thinking about volunteering to walk dogs at your local SPCA/shelter/rescue, etc. Gets him out of the house and outside, with a little social interaction but not too much, and also provides some alone time just him and a dog or two who is going to be very appreciative. Plus, being male, I'm assuming he's going to be strong enough to handle the bigger dogs, which should be appreciated by the shelter as well. Also perhaps knowing that the dogs will be counting on him might be a motivator as well?
posted by cgg at 11:38 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by cgg at 11:38 AM on January 2, 2015
Ome last thought: there are a number or "arts" kinds of activities where the computer can act as "gateway drug": painting, music (guitar, synthesizer, production), photography, writing, even cooking or (if you want to spend some $$$) 3D printing. Have you explored any of those with him?
posted by doctor tough love at 11:49 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by doctor tough love at 11:49 AM on January 2, 2015
I second doctor tough love: As someone who is a bit on the spectrum and spent many hours in front of a computer growing up, the issue isn't the screen, it's what he's doing on the screen. A key for me is that my dad was a programmer, and he encouraged me early with picking up programming skills. I would try to see if you know anyone who might be able to mentor him in that area or related ones. I would try to encourage him to get involved in one or more social activities online:
Amateur music creation, if he's at all musical. Or something like making youtube videos, editing, etc.
Active involvement in (non-harmful) online communities. IRC taught me most of my social skills growing up. Some reddit communities seem good, not sure if forums are still really a thing
Pick up programming/mod stuff. There's a lot of stuff to do related to games
Do tech consulting for friends and families. I used to make side money building websites for family friends
It's not coincidence that people on the spectrum tend to find careers involving computers. It fits in well with our skill sets and limitations, and trying to force him off the computer will probably make him stressed out and resentful, at least based on my personal experience.
posted by JZig at 12:22 PM on January 2, 2015
Amateur music creation, if he's at all musical. Or something like making youtube videos, editing, etc.
Active involvement in (non-harmful) online communities. IRC taught me most of my social skills growing up. Some reddit communities seem good, not sure if forums are still really a thing
Pick up programming/mod stuff. There's a lot of stuff to do related to games
Do tech consulting for friends and families. I used to make side money building websites for family friends
It's not coincidence that people on the spectrum tend to find careers involving computers. It fits in well with our skill sets and limitations, and trying to force him off the computer will probably make him stressed out and resentful, at least based on my personal experience.
posted by JZig at 12:22 PM on January 2, 2015
I'm battling this as well with my Aspie 14-year-old. I force him to get off the computer between 5 and 7 every evening so he eats dinner with me and either spend additional time with me or is forced to think of something else to do with himself. On vacations he will fail to eat any meals all day unless forced, because he doesn't want to take a break.
The one thing he occasionally does with other people is play Magic: The Gathering. If your son can muster interest in that, there are probably other kids at his school who play, or game stores locally that run games. The latter in my experience are pretty tolerant of less socially adept personalities, but do expect a reasonable level of playing proficiency.
posted by metasarah at 12:26 PM on January 2, 2015
The one thing he occasionally does with other people is play Magic: The Gathering. If your son can muster interest in that, there are probably other kids at his school who play, or game stores locally that run games. The latter in my experience are pretty tolerant of less socially adept personalities, but do expect a reasonable level of playing proficiency.
posted by metasarah at 12:26 PM on January 2, 2015
I work with kids like your son, down to the extreme screen time. This is the advice I'd give to any of the parents of my students.
Contact the Asperger/Autism Network in Watertown. Especially helpful are their Transition Services for kids your son's age. You'll get a lot of ideas from them. They can help him learn how to apply for, get and keep a job. How to apply for school, how to get services, etc. They have parent support groups and TEEN groups.
If you decide to not contact them, then you've got to do some tough love. So, what does that look like? He's got to be cut off from the screens and the games. Period. Cold turkey. it can't be limited time (for now), because right now he's in the throes of a very unhealthy addictive pattern. Believe me, I work with a LOT of boys just like your son and and time and time again the parents give me a million reasons why they can't disconnect their kid. You HAVE to disconnect him from this world. It has the danger of becoming (if it already isn't) a very unhealthy coping mechanism. This will be very hard but you have to do it.
He can eventually get back to the gaming, but not as a player for now. You may check into coding classes at MIT or other ways to get him involved actively in the gaming community.
Now, life skills. He needs to get a job. I think I know your geographical area and there are jobs. This will require a lot of work on your part; filling out applications and practicing interview skills. But he needs to have something that gives him money and teaches him budgeting.
This is a tough place to be in, and I think you'll get the best results if you get outside help for guidance.
Memail me if you want to talk more.
posted by kinetic at 12:28 PM on January 2, 2015
Contact the Asperger/Autism Network in Watertown. Especially helpful are their Transition Services for kids your son's age. You'll get a lot of ideas from them. They can help him learn how to apply for, get and keep a job. How to apply for school, how to get services, etc. They have parent support groups and TEEN groups.
If you decide to not contact them, then you've got to do some tough love. So, what does that look like? He's got to be cut off from the screens and the games. Period. Cold turkey. it can't be limited time (for now), because right now he's in the throes of a very unhealthy addictive pattern. Believe me, I work with a LOT of boys just like your son and and time and time again the parents give me a million reasons why they can't disconnect their kid. You HAVE to disconnect him from this world. It has the danger of becoming (if it already isn't) a very unhealthy coping mechanism. This will be very hard but you have to do it.
He can eventually get back to the gaming, but not as a player for now. You may check into coding classes at MIT or other ways to get him involved actively in the gaming community.
Now, life skills. He needs to get a job. I think I know your geographical area and there are jobs. This will require a lot of work on your part; filling out applications and practicing interview skills. But he needs to have something that gives him money and teaches him budgeting.
This is a tough place to be in, and I think you'll get the best results if you get outside help for guidance.
Memail me if you want to talk more.
posted by kinetic at 12:28 PM on January 2, 2015
I'd encourage him to go and play D&D or some other similar RPG, even to the point of going with him. Anyone that plays video games would pick up the concepts in a few minutes, but there is a lot of rules, maximizing character skills etc to keep him interested at home and a social going out once a week or month to get to the games it. A lot of games stores run weekly D&D Expeditions which are open to the public, will provide character sheets & friendly environment as they are expecting people just beginning to join the games. It is a game format that pretty much forces you to talk to other people, and most of the people are pretty forgiving on personality traits involving social skills.
Also a tough love approach would be the way I'd go. You can have x number of hours on the computer after all your jobs are done. Teach what most of us people that live online have to learn, work & responsibilities first then online time.
posted by wwax at 12:35 PM on January 2, 2015
Also a tough love approach would be the way I'd go. You can have x number of hours on the computer after all your jobs are done. Teach what most of us people that live online have to learn, work & responsibilities first then online time.
posted by wwax at 12:35 PM on January 2, 2015
To what extent is he engaged with online communities around games? I probably looked somewhat like your son when I was in high school, but most of my time online was spent in social contexts - playing games with my team, organizing practices for upcoming tournaments, or just hanging out in chat rooms. I really cherish that time and I learned a lot about interacting with other people which have served me well in the years since. If we're talking about purely solo play, I certainly agree that you're in very problematic territory. But for me, online interaction was where I was most comfortable and it gave me a space to be open and involved with people from my day-to-day IRL social scene. I would try to better understand what's going on and what he's getting out of it.
If you're considering kinetic's advice (which I disagree with), I think you'll want to be sure you're not cutting him off from his primary social outlet. Just because you value in-person interaction over online interaction doesn't mean it's fair or healthy to force that issue.
This is all predicated on the assumption that there's something social happening online. If he's really in 100% offline/noncreative/private play then I would definitely agree that it's probably unhealthy.
posted by heresiarch at 12:41 PM on January 2, 2015
If you're considering kinetic's advice (which I disagree with), I think you'll want to be sure you're not cutting him off from his primary social outlet. Just because you value in-person interaction over online interaction doesn't mean it's fair or healthy to force that issue.
This is all predicated on the assumption that there's something social happening online. If he's really in 100% offline/noncreative/private play then I would definitely agree that it's probably unhealthy.
posted by heresiarch at 12:41 PM on January 2, 2015
Yeah, heresiarch is dead on about determining if the gaming is his primary social outlet. If it is, don't just pull the plug but instead it needs to become retooled as part of a healthier lifestyle, which includes learning transitional skills (money, job, classes, volunteering, etc.). I would find out if he's doing XBox Live or other interactive games where he's talking to people. But even if it IS social, it's too much screen time. In general, that amount of screen time isn't healthy, but there is support out there. I get that he does it because he likes it, and I work with lots of Aspie teens and I know how it's a reasonable social outlet, but he's at an age where he needs to be learning life skills because the danger of him becoming isolated and unable to function outside of your home gets very real once he's out of high school.
posted by kinetic at 1:00 PM on January 2, 2015
posted by kinetic at 1:00 PM on January 2, 2015
Many households have a "rule" that says that in order for young adults to remain in the home after high school graduation they must a) productively contribute to the the household (re chores and such) and b) be enrolled in college or working/ job hunting. If this "rule" will apply to your household too, then it is reasonable to start working on those skills now.
posted by oceano at 1:06 PM on January 2, 2015
posted by oceano at 1:06 PM on January 2, 2015
Try board games or card games like Magic: The Gathering. I have some autistic friends who play these and have a lot of fun. Its probably the most social thing they do in their everyday lives.
posted by SamMiller at 1:19 PM on January 2, 2015
posted by SamMiller at 1:19 PM on January 2, 2015
Do you have anyone else -- outside of "parents" -- to mentor and guide your son? I've observed that many teens seem to need to rebel against the advice of their parents, ignoring their very good advice.
When I was a teen, I jumped at ideas suggested by my uncle (he so *understood* me)! My 15-year old nephew will do something if his best friend's father advises it, but not do the same thing if advised by his mother. My husband's brother (who is Autistic) ignored most advice from his parents for years & years. However, over the past five years he has been working 3 hours a day, M-F with professionals from an Adult Autism service in his state (Pennsylvania). He follows all their advice very willingly, and they have made an immense difference, helping him move into his own apartment, cook, clean, do laundry, interview and apply for new jobs, volunteer at many new locations, socialize and attend Autism support groups, and more. Is there any such service in your area?
posted by apennington at 2:11 PM on January 2, 2015
When I was a teen, I jumped at ideas suggested by my uncle (he so *understood* me)! My 15-year old nephew will do something if his best friend's father advises it, but not do the same thing if advised by his mother. My husband's brother (who is Autistic) ignored most advice from his parents for years & years. However, over the past five years he has been working 3 hours a day, M-F with professionals from an Adult Autism service in his state (Pennsylvania). He follows all their advice very willingly, and they have made an immense difference, helping him move into his own apartment, cook, clean, do laundry, interview and apply for new jobs, volunteer at many new locations, socialize and attend Autism support groups, and more. Is there any such service in your area?
posted by apennington at 2:11 PM on January 2, 2015
Would something like Ingress (previously on the blue) interest him? It's at least a video game that you have to play with other people and get out of the house to play.
posted by jferg at 2:34 PM on January 2, 2015
posted by jferg at 2:34 PM on January 2, 2015
I disagree with the idea of completely cutting him off from a screen. Complete cut off is something that can be helpful when dealing with addiction to try and force change, but getting legitimate enjoyment out of something can be very different than addiction. It can be difficult to tell the difference between an addiction and other types of unhealthy behavior. From what you say I don't think he's at the point where such a dramatic change is warranted, especially because he has shown interest in doing truly social activities such as the gaming club, but just can't deal with the negative aspects of it.
Rules and enforced moderation are good ideas though. Growing up for me the key rule was time of day, I couldn't use the computer past 11 and it was in the family room so they could enforce it. It forced me to do different stuff at night, typically reading (the theoretical goal was to get me to go to bed earlier but that never worked)
posted by JZig at 3:06 PM on January 2, 2015
Rules and enforced moderation are good ideas though. Growing up for me the key rule was time of day, I couldn't use the computer past 11 and it was in the family room so they could enforce it. It forced me to do different stuff at night, typically reading (the theoretical goal was to get me to go to bed earlier but that never worked)
posted by JZig at 3:06 PM on January 2, 2015
Something you said that's very important is that your son *wants* to make friends and feels lonely doing things alone. This is not always true for young people diagnosed "on the spectrum," of course, and it is a Very Good Sign that he is capable of having a more extensive social life than he has now.
On the other hand, Asperger's is often comorbid with mood disorders. Your stating that your son dreads the social interaction of his group (although he craves it and is glad he went afterward -- and even started it, which is *awesome*) suggests that he has social anxiety disorder. I understand that this can be thought of as "part of" being on the spectrum, but I would not write it off in that way -- it doesn't mean that it might not be treated as a psychiatric disorder with e.g. psychotherapy, an appropriate therapy group for people his age who are similar to him (although that can be very difficult to find, even in a large city), and/or psychiatric medication.
There are millions of people who are not "on the spectrum" but who have severe anxiety (both anticipatory and while engaged in the activity) regarding social interaction, and they often benefit from anti-anxiety medication (which is usually an SSRI -- these are thought of as anti-depressants but they also have anxiolytic properties).
I would not disregard the possibilities that your son might move along more quickly in his social life if he were treated for his anxiety as well as what sounds like the accompanying depression that he may be feeling (because he has a pretty depressing social life, it sounds like, with all the rejections he suffers when he tries to take social initiatives).
I agree with the responder(s) who suggest that you try to get him involved in groups perhaps offered by a local group for individuals "on the spectrum", for the simple (yet profound) reason that those kids will not reject him! On the other hand, I highly disagree with the professional who said to cut your son off from his games! Your instincts are correct -- they are saving him from feeling even worse. In other words, playing the games all day *is* is a drug -- but he is self-medicating, so removing this (virtually only) adaptive strategy he's found for himself is cruel and, as the Aspies themselves might say, strongly privileging "neurotypical" behavior. I understand that people who are telling you to get him off the games are using pragmatic rationales to justify their opinions: along the lines of "he has to do chores because that's part of life" etc. They may be "right" but there is a deep moralism behind those prescriptions. Your son can learn to do some chores, that's fine, but he'll still have many many more hours of the evening left to spend in front of the screen than the "anti-screeners" are comfortable with. You have to address WHY he is sitting there all the time.
I think the most important thing out of all of this is to help your son develop his social life, which apparently he desires to do and would desire more if he didn't have to feel so terrified about it. It's a very good sign that he does take steps to interact with people, even if he doesn't feel that great about it and clearly needs to do some work to improve his skills.
another thing -- he is apparently in high school now. What he does afterward is of CRUCIAL importance. Will he be applying to colleges? If so, you should start NOW to look at what types of colleges or other post-secondary education will meet his needs. I have seen many people who are like your son do very poorly socially in a regular high school (you haven't said that he's in special ed -- is that the case?) but when they go off to the RIGHT post-secondary program their whole lives change. For example I know of one young man with Asperger's who felt horrible rejection all through his public New England high school, but he happened to be brilliant and high-functioning academically so went off to a top liberal arts college (his mother was terrified that he'd bounce back home because of his social deficits). It turned out that he is HAPPY in this college, which prides itself on its highly liberal, tolerant students, and he has really found a place for himself where his "differentness" is not stigmatized. This is an unusual story I'm telling, but there are also a number of excellent college-type programs for kids with learning disabilities etc., some of whose students are also "on the spectrum."
If your son is in a public high school, you're probably not going to get a lot of (or any) really good help from the college advisors about where he might go after high school. It is very important that you assess his interests and skills and look up programs and see where a good fit might be -- and don't underestimate his capabilities. It would be tragic for him to wind up at home, isolated, going to a few community college classes made up of students who are not like him and to have to repeat his sad, failing attempts at social interaction, but you'll think, "well at least he has an afterschool job tending animals so he doesn't have to feel the anxiety he feels when he has to relate to people."
If your son can get into a post-high school program that is the right place for him academically and socially, you may see some amazing changes happen., In the meantime, you might want to investigate psychiatric treatment and any appropriate social structures in which he'll fit in better than his current situation.
Good luck with all this. I know from a number of perspectives how challenging (and heartbreaking) it can be to deal with what you are going through.
(I am not your therapist.)
posted by DMelanogaster at 4:48 PM on January 2, 2015
On the other hand, Asperger's is often comorbid with mood disorders. Your stating that your son dreads the social interaction of his group (although he craves it and is glad he went afterward -- and even started it, which is *awesome*) suggests that he has social anxiety disorder. I understand that this can be thought of as "part of" being on the spectrum, but I would not write it off in that way -- it doesn't mean that it might not be treated as a psychiatric disorder with e.g. psychotherapy, an appropriate therapy group for people his age who are similar to him (although that can be very difficult to find, even in a large city), and/or psychiatric medication.
There are millions of people who are not "on the spectrum" but who have severe anxiety (both anticipatory and while engaged in the activity) regarding social interaction, and they often benefit from anti-anxiety medication (which is usually an SSRI -- these are thought of as anti-depressants but they also have anxiolytic properties).
I would not disregard the possibilities that your son might move along more quickly in his social life if he were treated for his anxiety as well as what sounds like the accompanying depression that he may be feeling (because he has a pretty depressing social life, it sounds like, with all the rejections he suffers when he tries to take social initiatives).
I agree with the responder(s) who suggest that you try to get him involved in groups perhaps offered by a local group for individuals "on the spectrum", for the simple (yet profound) reason that those kids will not reject him! On the other hand, I highly disagree with the professional who said to cut your son off from his games! Your instincts are correct -- they are saving him from feeling even worse. In other words, playing the games all day *is* is a drug -- but he is self-medicating, so removing this (virtually only) adaptive strategy he's found for himself is cruel and, as the Aspies themselves might say, strongly privileging "neurotypical" behavior. I understand that people who are telling you to get him off the games are using pragmatic rationales to justify their opinions: along the lines of "he has to do chores because that's part of life" etc. They may be "right" but there is a deep moralism behind those prescriptions. Your son can learn to do some chores, that's fine, but he'll still have many many more hours of the evening left to spend in front of the screen than the "anti-screeners" are comfortable with. You have to address WHY he is sitting there all the time.
I think the most important thing out of all of this is to help your son develop his social life, which apparently he desires to do and would desire more if he didn't have to feel so terrified about it. It's a very good sign that he does take steps to interact with people, even if he doesn't feel that great about it and clearly needs to do some work to improve his skills.
another thing -- he is apparently in high school now. What he does afterward is of CRUCIAL importance. Will he be applying to colleges? If so, you should start NOW to look at what types of colleges or other post-secondary education will meet his needs. I have seen many people who are like your son do very poorly socially in a regular high school (you haven't said that he's in special ed -- is that the case?) but when they go off to the RIGHT post-secondary program their whole lives change. For example I know of one young man with Asperger's who felt horrible rejection all through his public New England high school, but he happened to be brilliant and high-functioning academically so went off to a top liberal arts college (his mother was terrified that he'd bounce back home because of his social deficits). It turned out that he is HAPPY in this college, which prides itself on its highly liberal, tolerant students, and he has really found a place for himself where his "differentness" is not stigmatized. This is an unusual story I'm telling, but there are also a number of excellent college-type programs for kids with learning disabilities etc., some of whose students are also "on the spectrum."
If your son is in a public high school, you're probably not going to get a lot of (or any) really good help from the college advisors about where he might go after high school. It is very important that you assess his interests and skills and look up programs and see where a good fit might be -- and don't underestimate his capabilities. It would be tragic for him to wind up at home, isolated, going to a few community college classes made up of students who are not like him and to have to repeat his sad, failing attempts at social interaction, but you'll think, "well at least he has an afterschool job tending animals so he doesn't have to feel the anxiety he feels when he has to relate to people."
If your son can get into a post-high school program that is the right place for him academically and socially, you may see some amazing changes happen., In the meantime, you might want to investigate psychiatric treatment and any appropriate social structures in which he'll fit in better than his current situation.
Good luck with all this. I know from a number of perspectives how challenging (and heartbreaking) it can be to deal with what you are going through.
(I am not your therapist.)
posted by DMelanogaster at 4:48 PM on January 2, 2015
That he "always agrees with me afterwards" that something was a good idea or enjoyable is not necessarily true, agreeing quietens you down and gets him space. Or it's genuine, you know your kid better than me, but god knows I've agreed to many a thing for a bit of peace.
Don't cut him off cold turkey from the internet or his games. This may be the one area in his life where he feels he is functional/"normal"/doesn't stick out, don't take that away. However, I think an internet bill, especially if he is a main user, is a cost suitable for a young adult to bare. If he wants internet at home then he will need to find a way to finance that. Failing that he will need to use the library, school, etc for the internet and find other ways to fill his time when at home. This isn't punishing him, it's preparing for the next step.
Two of the main motivations for independence in young adults is wanting to get their own place so they can engage in adult activities such as banging hotties, having their friends over to be really loud all evening and drink loads of crappy beer. These motivations are often not shared by some neuroatypical folks. There's nothing they want to do that can't be done at home where they also get their food cooked and their laundry done. They have to put up with some nagging but that's still a pretty cheap price. You need to create some external motivation and you need to start now. Make him pay the internet bill if he wants internet. Obviously you parents can use the internet he pays for the same way as he uses the electricity etc that you pay for (should that argument be made).
posted by Iteki at 5:32 PM on January 2, 2015
Don't cut him off cold turkey from the internet or his games. This may be the one area in his life where he feels he is functional/"normal"/doesn't stick out, don't take that away. However, I think an internet bill, especially if he is a main user, is a cost suitable for a young adult to bare. If he wants internet at home then he will need to find a way to finance that. Failing that he will need to use the library, school, etc for the internet and find other ways to fill his time when at home. This isn't punishing him, it's preparing for the next step.
Two of the main motivations for independence in young adults is wanting to get their own place so they can engage in adult activities such as banging hotties, having their friends over to be really loud all evening and drink loads of crappy beer. These motivations are often not shared by some neuroatypical folks. There's nothing they want to do that can't be done at home where they also get their food cooked and their laundry done. They have to put up with some nagging but that's still a pretty cheap price. You need to create some external motivation and you need to start now. Make him pay the internet bill if he wants internet. Obviously you parents can use the internet he pays for the same way as he uses the electricity etc that you pay for (should that argument be made).
posted by Iteki at 5:32 PM on January 2, 2015
Do you ever go with him? E.g. on the bike rides, walks, trips in to the city - are these ever things you can do with him, or is it just sending him off to do something?
If you're doing it too, it might be more inviting (something that someone else wants to do is always more attractive than something no-one wants to do, that you're being 'forced' into), or at least more comfortable than going off to do something alone.
Nth-ing that it is possible to do both social and asocial things on the computer. When I was that age (10 years ago) I didn't want to get off the computer because it was where my friends were, like a kid in a previous generation wanting to spend all her time at the mall with her friends. Not on the spectrum, and my friends were often people I also knew in real life, but there were definitely people I met and befriended online who had severe troubles making friends in real life and for whom online friendships were a godsend. (There is something sad about a life spent entirely online, though, so I would encourage you to proceed with therapy or similar treatment for his social anxiety as mentioned above.)
Note I'm no expert on any of this, except for 'spending a lot of time on the internet'. :) Just another stranger with an opinion.
posted by Lady Li at 1:32 AM on January 3, 2015
If you're doing it too, it might be more inviting (something that someone else wants to do is always more attractive than something no-one wants to do, that you're being 'forced' into), or at least more comfortable than going off to do something alone.
Nth-ing that it is possible to do both social and asocial things on the computer. When I was that age (10 years ago) I didn't want to get off the computer because it was where my friends were, like a kid in a previous generation wanting to spend all her time at the mall with her friends. Not on the spectrum, and my friends were often people I also knew in real life, but there were definitely people I met and befriended online who had severe troubles making friends in real life and for whom online friendships were a godsend. (There is something sad about a life spent entirely online, though, so I would encourage you to proceed with therapy or similar treatment for his social anxiety as mentioned above.)
Note I'm no expert on any of this, except for 'spending a lot of time on the internet'. :) Just another stranger with an opinion.
posted by Lady Li at 1:32 AM on January 3, 2015
I would say go old school - find out what clubs in real life are in your area that might touch on nature, science, classification - mushroom club, wildcrafting (wild edible plants), volunteer at the forest service (set wasp or moth traps? take water samples? count and classify trees, plant trees), Audubon society bird count, friends of the library (has periodic book sales that are good socialization), interpret for a student exchange program (meaning he would need to learn a second language), photography club.
And I would say you have to pick one interest that gets you out in the world in order to be a well-rounded mentally healthy person. I have done a lot of things in my life not because I want to but because science shows it will make me healthy.
posted by cda at 3:08 PM on January 3, 2015
And I would say you have to pick one interest that gets you out in the world in order to be a well-rounded mentally healthy person. I have done a lot of things in my life not because I want to but because science shows it will make me healthy.
posted by cda at 3:08 PM on January 3, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
And explain to him that he needs to learn some life skills if he's going to go to college or eventually live on his own.
posted by discopolo at 10:44 AM on January 2, 2015