What high-end alcohol is worth every penny?
November 23, 2014 10:07 AM Subscribe
I recently tried some decent single malt scotch for the first time, and was blown away by how much more complex and smooth it was compared to cheaper whiskies I had tried before. What other alcohol is worth spending extra money to get The Good Stuff?
Pretty much everything except vodka.
posted by neroli at 10:14 AM on November 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by neroli at 10:14 AM on November 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
All?
Seriously, I'm going to disagree on the vodka. When I finally tried a good vodka I finally understood the appeal of a martini. Same with gin. In fact, I decided a while back life is too short for anything other than top shelf booze. Bad vodka is like rubbing alcohol and neither should be consumed.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:15 AM on November 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
Seriously, I'm going to disagree on the vodka. When I finally tried a good vodka I finally understood the appeal of a martini. Same with gin. In fact, I decided a while back life is too short for anything other than top shelf booze. Bad vodka is like rubbing alcohol and neither should be consumed.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:15 AM on November 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
I'm guessing the disagreement on vodka is because vodka crosses the point of diminishing returns a lot sooner than the others. Gin is basically flavored vodka, so it's mostly a personal preference thing.
Whiskey, tequila, and brandy all benefit from serious upgrades. I don't drink rum neat, so I don't go crazy with it.
posted by grudgebgon at 10:23 AM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Whiskey, tequila, and brandy all benefit from serious upgrades. I don't drink rum neat, so I don't go crazy with it.
posted by grudgebgon at 10:23 AM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Idk about all, particularly gin. Its so specific to me that while I have enjoyed the higher end versions they're not better to me than tanqueray. They're different and hit on different notes but its a perspective shift rather than one bring more complex.
Which I guess it to say I've found the high end versions to be absolutely worth it, but in terms of relative value its a different story. Yes they're worth it but you can get something that in my opinion is close to perfection for a lot less.
posted by Carillon at 10:24 AM on November 23, 2014
Which I guess it to say I've found the high end versions to be absolutely worth it, but in terms of relative value its a different story. Yes they're worth it but you can get something that in my opinion is close to perfection for a lot less.
posted by Carillon at 10:24 AM on November 23, 2014
Rum. Añejo. It's a completely different, delicious beverage.
I'm very partial to Frambrois and Piper-Sonoma sparkling wine. Kir Royale with outstanding ingredients is sublime.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:25 AM on November 23, 2014
I'm very partial to Frambrois and Piper-Sonoma sparkling wine. Kir Royale with outstanding ingredients is sublime.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:25 AM on November 23, 2014
Most of them, but the price at which you're rewarded with quality varies. At a certain price, you start paying for for better inputs, higher standards of production, or the premium that comes from having the spirit sitting around in a barrel for several years instead of being sold as soon as the law permits.
Rum is a good example: the range broadens when you get into the domain of longer-aged spirits and smaller producers and rhum agricole. You can say the same about cognac and other decent brandies. I believe aged tequila has a similar curve, while with unaged tequila the premium comes from using 100% agave. Gin and vodka are more marginal: there's a price at which you get past the terrible stuff, but there's equally a point at which the extra money mostly goes towards the branding of an un-aged clear spirit. There are also spirits where roughness is part of the deal, like marc and grappa and raki/arak.
posted by holgate at 10:27 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Rum is a good example: the range broadens when you get into the domain of longer-aged spirits and smaller producers and rhum agricole. You can say the same about cognac and other decent brandies. I believe aged tequila has a similar curve, while with unaged tequila the premium comes from using 100% agave. Gin and vodka are more marginal: there's a price at which you get past the terrible stuff, but there's equally a point at which the extra money mostly goes towards the branding of an un-aged clear spirit. There are also spirits where roughness is part of the deal, like marc and grappa and raki/arak.
posted by holgate at 10:27 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
With gin, I think that once you get to the level of Bombay Sapphire / Tanqueray / Beefeater / Boodles there is zero need to spend more than that because the return begins to seriously diminish.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:35 AM on November 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 10:35 AM on November 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
Old Raj gin is worth a try if you like saffron and decadence in your gin. Obviously this shouldn't be wasted in a cocktail.
posted by oceanjesse at 10:39 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 10:39 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Maybe the vodka thing is because of the inexplicable phenomenon where people think dumpster-fire-flavored Stoli is "good?"
Absolut, despite the sophmore-year-dorm associations, is decent stuff, but if you try something really good like Belvedere or Grey Goose you will realize that yes, there is a very large difference between good and bad vodka.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:40 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Absolut, despite the sophmore-year-dorm associations, is decent stuff, but if you try something really good like Belvedere or Grey Goose you will realize that yes, there is a very large difference between good and bad vodka.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:40 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'd also point out some of the lower price stuff is as good as the more expensive stuff. I'm currently very fond of Kracken rum and it's so cheap I feel guilty for only paying that amount. You can pay four times as much and still not get good stuff.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:41 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 10:41 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
I would agree - bottom shelf vs top shelf is always worth the money, top shelf vs seriously premium top shelf is YMMV depending on use.
Tequila is one of those things - I happen to think Sauza Silver is not much different than Patron *in a margarita*, but the price difference is 20$/60$ a bottle. If I were sipping it neat, I'd pay the difference. I wouldn't make a margarita with a lower quality tequila than the Sauza Silver though.
Vodka + mixer and Vodka martinis are a different animal. If you're covering it in OJ it matters much less. But you will feel a difference in the hangover for sure. Same with Gin.
Amaretto - cheap amaretto doesn't hold a candle to Disarrano, no matter how you are using it. St Germain is worth the price.
Bourbon/Scotch/Cognac - HUGE differences and those liquors are usually served straight/rocks and not mixed, so you will taste the difference.
Oh and triple sec/Citronge/Cointreau - enormous difference Gran Marnier is also worth the money, whether straight or in a margarita.
posted by mazienh at 10:44 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Tequila is one of those things - I happen to think Sauza Silver is not much different than Patron *in a margarita*, but the price difference is 20$/60$ a bottle. If I were sipping it neat, I'd pay the difference. I wouldn't make a margarita with a lower quality tequila than the Sauza Silver though.
Vodka + mixer and Vodka martinis are a different animal. If you're covering it in OJ it matters much less. But you will feel a difference in the hangover for sure. Same with Gin.
Amaretto - cheap amaretto doesn't hold a candle to Disarrano, no matter how you are using it. St Germain is worth the price.
Bourbon/Scotch/Cognac - HUGE differences and those liquors are usually served straight/rocks and not mixed, so you will taste the difference.
Oh and triple sec/Citronge/Cointreau - enormous difference Gran Marnier is also worth the money, whether straight or in a margarita.
posted by mazienh at 10:44 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Gin too. Gin is basically a flavored spirit and there's a hipster revolution in it right now. From particularly good versions of the traditional juniper, to cucumber (Hendrick's), to Douglas Fir (a brand I thankfully forgot). St. George's Botanivore is one of our favorites. Sapphire is fine for complex cocktails or mixed drinks, but for a martini which is basically a gin shot it's nice to have an interesting gin.
posted by Nelson at 10:44 AM on November 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:44 AM on November 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Wow, I'm going to disagree on the gin. Gin is awesome and can be floral and fruity and filled with crazy flavors you don't usually get in booze. If you like juniper and other herbal flavors, you might try experimenting with some high-end or small-batch gins. Hendricks is a good place to start to see if you like botanical spirits -- some people think they taste like soap, but I am definitely a fan of the bolder gins.
On the vodkas, you get cleaner and cleaner absences of flavor as you go up the price ladder; it's sort of like grading bottled water. I'd say it's worth trying Ketel One and maybe some potato vodka at some point if you enjoy the taste of straight cold vodka.
So, yeah. All booze is worth the upgrade.
posted by brina at 10:47 AM on November 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
On the vodkas, you get cleaner and cleaner absences of flavor as you go up the price ladder; it's sort of like grading bottled water. I'd say it's worth trying Ketel One and maybe some potato vodka at some point if you enjoy the taste of straight cold vodka.
So, yeah. All booze is worth the upgrade.
posted by brina at 10:47 AM on November 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
I think the amount something's worth the upgrade depends heavily on what else you're adding to it. If you're drinking straight tequila, you want really good tequila. If you're making margaritas from scratch, you want medium good tequila. If you're using a mix, you should go to your room and think about what you've done FOR SHAME.
Vodka in particular, if you're just adding a bit of it to a strongly-flavored other thing, as many vodka cocktails are designed to change the flavor as little as possible, it winds up not mattering much.
However, even in cocktails, I spring for Hendrick's for my gin because the flavor makes a huge difference to a G&T. However, at that point, it's also important to spring for good tonic water.
posted by Sequence at 10:52 AM on November 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Vodka in particular, if you're just adding a bit of it to a strongly-flavored other thing, as many vodka cocktails are designed to change the flavor as little as possible, it winds up not mattering much.
However, even in cocktails, I spring for Hendrick's for my gin because the flavor makes a huge difference to a G&T. However, at that point, it's also important to spring for good tonic water.
posted by Sequence at 10:52 AM on November 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
All booze is worth the upgrade.
Well, I'd agree that it's worth tasting your way up the price spectrum and then deciding based on what you enjoy and how you want to use it. I agree with the comments above about gin, in that the small batch stuff is complex and fun, and yet some pretty basic Sapphire makes a great gin and tonic as well, for example.
I drink more wine than hard alcohol, and there are fantastic wines available from $8 up to as much as you want to spend; there's not a direct link between cost and value. And I've recently tasted some amazing mezcals, where both cheap and expensive were good but for different purposes, so for sipping it neat I'd probably spend more than for a mixed drink, but spending more isn't a direct guarantee of quality..
posted by Dip Flash at 10:57 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Well, I'd agree that it's worth tasting your way up the price spectrum and then deciding based on what you enjoy and how you want to use it. I agree with the comments above about gin, in that the small batch stuff is complex and fun, and yet some pretty basic Sapphire makes a great gin and tonic as well, for example.
I drink more wine than hard alcohol, and there are fantastic wines available from $8 up to as much as you want to spend; there's not a direct link between cost and value. And I've recently tasted some amazing mezcals, where both cheap and expensive were good but for different purposes, so for sipping it neat I'd probably spend more than for a mixed drink, but spending more isn't a direct guarantee of quality..
posted by Dip Flash at 10:57 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
For me, there's definitely a reason to not drink bottom-shelf booze, but I can't typically afford tip-top shelf either. So I cheerfully drink mid-range.
Currently:
-El Jimador Silver tequila (before that it was Altos Reposado)---this is surprisingly good. I have the remnants of a bottle of Jose Cuervo Especial which is really nasty. Don't drink that.
-Mount Gay rum
-Various varieties of gin: New Amsterdam for cocktails; Aviation and Tanqueray Rangpur for drinking straight (the Rangpur is a little harsh but the lime flavor is really good)
These run me typically between $20 and $30 a bottle, but I live in a place with pretty high liquor taxes and its expensive to ship stuff.
(All the "best budget liquor x" lists invariably claim I can buy whichever best one for like $15/bottle, and then it costs twice that in the store, ugh.)
posted by leahwrenn at 11:01 AM on November 23, 2014
Currently:
-El Jimador Silver tequila (before that it was Altos Reposado)---this is surprisingly good. I have the remnants of a bottle of Jose Cuervo Especial which is really nasty. Don't drink that.
-Mount Gay rum
-Various varieties of gin: New Amsterdam for cocktails; Aviation and Tanqueray Rangpur for drinking straight (the Rangpur is a little harsh but the lime flavor is really good)
These run me typically between $20 and $30 a bottle, but I live in a place with pretty high liquor taxes and its expensive to ship stuff.
(All the "best budget liquor x" lists invariably claim I can buy whichever best one for like $15/bottle, and then it costs twice that in the store, ugh.)
posted by leahwrenn at 11:01 AM on November 23, 2014
Lots of things are worth the upgrade. BUT. You only just discovered single malt is worth the upgrade, and there is so much for you to discover, so maybe focus on that for a while. So many AskMe threads to pick up on.
posted by biffa at 11:02 AM on November 23, 2014
posted by biffa at 11:02 AM on November 23, 2014
Nelson's answer points to the narrowness of the gin quality bands. Going by Bevmo prices: Seagrams is $15; Beefeater / Gordons: $20; Bombay Sapphire, Beefeater 24: $25; Tanqueray Ten, Aviation, etc.: $30; St George: $35; Hendrick's: $40 (where $5 is to cover the blue-bottle branding). Much beyond that and you're getting into weirder territory like barrel-aged gins. What shows up at the $25+ range is different botanicals, smaller-scale production, more experimental ingredients like St George's rye-based gin.
So you're not only buying into quality, but also into greater diversity of products, and to some degree, the practice of connoisseurship: the ability to make comparisons and judgements on that range. You're not just getting the Good Stuff but the Good Stuff Experience. Bourdieu would probably have something to say about that.
posted by holgate at 11:06 AM on November 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
So you're not only buying into quality, but also into greater diversity of products, and to some degree, the practice of connoisseurship: the ability to make comparisons and judgements on that range. You're not just getting the Good Stuff but the Good Stuff Experience. Bourdieu would probably have something to say about that.
posted by holgate at 11:06 AM on November 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
I have drunk a lot of different spirits in the course of making the 25 most influential cocktails of the past 100 years. I think there is a spectrum of value that differs greatly depending on the type of spirit. Rum, I feel, best rewards the extra spending in terms of raw quality. Cheap rum is basically vodka with food coloring. $20 for a legitimate bottle is effectively infinitely better. And going to a $40 bottle for something that is 12 years old gets you an outstanding product that is smooth and characterful. I think it's more or less true for all spirits that rely on aging for their primary flavoring: rum, cognac, and bourbon/rye. Cognac is similar in terms of the shape of the curve, with the caveat that you should double all the prices!
The other category that amply rewards additional costs is eau de vie. There it's about fruit quality, and good eau de vie takes a lot of good fruit.
Scotch uses peat as a major component, so once you get to a straight scotch (as opposed to blended, which is cut with neutral spirit akin to vodka) the quality levels out a lot. My friend who spends $$$ on scotch will tell you it's not the super expensive old stuff that's the best.
Vodka and tequila are probably the worst return, to my taste. Once you get above rotgut-level vodka, they taste effectively the same when chilled. Ditto for tequila, where a midrange 100% agave version is the best, to my taste. Really old tequila loses the fresh, grassy character, and is worse. For some reason, vodka and tequila also seem to attract the most overpriced brands with flashy packaging.
posted by wnissen at 11:33 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
The other category that amply rewards additional costs is eau de vie. There it's about fruit quality, and good eau de vie takes a lot of good fruit.
Scotch uses peat as a major component, so once you get to a straight scotch (as opposed to blended, which is cut with neutral spirit akin to vodka) the quality levels out a lot. My friend who spends $$$ on scotch will tell you it's not the super expensive old stuff that's the best.
Vodka and tequila are probably the worst return, to my taste. Once you get above rotgut-level vodka, they taste effectively the same when chilled. Ditto for tequila, where a midrange 100% agave version is the best, to my taste. Really old tequila loses the fresh, grassy character, and is worse. For some reason, vodka and tequila also seem to attract the most overpriced brands with flashy packaging.
posted by wnissen at 11:33 AM on November 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Calvados, the V.S.O.P. ones. Very *very* good!
posted by hz37 at 11:41 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by hz37 at 11:41 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
So you're not only buying into quality, but also into greater diversity of products, and to some degree, the practice of connoisseurship: the ability to make comparisons and judgements on that range. You're not just getting the Good Stuff but the Good Stuff Experience. Bourdieu would probably have something to say about that.
My booze tastes are not refined. I like Johnny Walker Black Label and have dabbled in single malt scotches but really I know nothing.
But one time I went to a bar and ordered a glass of their "standard" Chivas Regal 12 year, which I don't think is that good but I can drink it. When they served it, I commented to my friend, "Why have I not been drinking this more? This is damn good!" It tasted really good to me.
The waitress stopped by and, unprompted, said they had accidentally served me the Chivas Regal 18 year rather than the 12 year. Ever since then, I have bought the 18 year for myself on occasion whenever I felt I should reward myself for something.
So, even with blended whiskeys, I think your dollar is well-spent on the better stuff.
posted by jayder at 11:58 AM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
My booze tastes are not refined. I like Johnny Walker Black Label and have dabbled in single malt scotches but really I know nothing.
But one time I went to a bar and ordered a glass of their "standard" Chivas Regal 12 year, which I don't think is that good but I can drink it. When they served it, I commented to my friend, "Why have I not been drinking this more? This is damn good!" It tasted really good to me.
The waitress stopped by and, unprompted, said they had accidentally served me the Chivas Regal 18 year rather than the 12 year. Ever since then, I have bought the 18 year for myself on occasion whenever I felt I should reward myself for something.
So, even with blended whiskeys, I think your dollar is well-spent on the better stuff.
posted by jayder at 11:58 AM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Scotch, obviously, and Tequila - more expensive Tequila can be sipped, the cheap stuff can not.
I would have agreed with the Vodka naysayers until I had Russian Standard - it's not even expensive or high end (I think a bottle is $20-$25) but it is heads and shoulders above anything else I've had.
posted by echo0720 at 12:24 PM on November 23, 2014
I would have agreed with the Vodka naysayers until I had Russian Standard - it's not even expensive or high end (I think a bottle is $20-$25) but it is heads and shoulders above anything else I've had.
posted by echo0720 at 12:24 PM on November 23, 2014
Absolutely, absolutely rum. I was blown away by El Dorado 21-year when I first tried it. It's extraordinarily smooth and delicious. It's not the kind of thing you'd mix into a cocktail, so I would only recommend it if you like to sip rum. Unfortunately, it's about $80 a bottle. However, you can do almost as well with El Dorado 15, which is half the cost. If you're just working your way up to high-end rums, I would start there, with the 15.
Tequila may be the most dramatic in terms of increasing quality. The disgusting stuff that made you sick in college bears no resemblance to the remarkable liquors you can sample. I'm less knowledgeable about specific tequilas, so I'll let others speak, or I'd just suggest you find a good liquor store in your area and talk to them.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:40 PM on November 23, 2014
Tequila may be the most dramatic in terms of increasing quality. The disgusting stuff that made you sick in college bears no resemblance to the remarkable liquors you can sample. I'm less knowledgeable about specific tequilas, so I'll let others speak, or I'd just suggest you find a good liquor store in your area and talk to them.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:40 PM on November 23, 2014
I don't have much to add, but if you're in a state where Costco sells booze, they have some decent deals on higher end stuff. If you're dropping a couple hundred bucks on a bottle, it may not make a difference, but hey, three dollars is three dollars.
posted by papayaninja at 12:57 PM on November 23, 2014
posted by papayaninja at 12:57 PM on November 23, 2014
(While I'm answering only tangentially, this may be something you want to consider if you start in on higher-level bourbons or other American whiskeys.)
posted by papayaninja at 1:01 PM on November 23, 2014
posted by papayaninja at 1:01 PM on November 23, 2014
If you're digging the good scotch, think about giving rye whiskey a shot (heh). Its the more original of the American whiskeys (as opposed to bourbon), and has a great spicy and complex flavor. My brother gave me a bottle of Whistlepig for Christmas last year and it changed my tastebuds forever. Good luck and careful with that bank account!
posted by stinkfoot at 1:10 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by stinkfoot at 1:10 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's not super-expensive, but Hendrick's gin is absurdly delicious. Real Grand Marnier is also sooooo much better than cheap knock-offs.
posted by julthumbscrew at 1:15 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by julthumbscrew at 1:15 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you like Irish Cream, you can go low-end: Panama Jack's is much cheaper and tastes great.
St Germain (elderflower liquer- tastes like pears and lichees and flowers) is expensive and worthwhile.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 1:31 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
St Germain (elderflower liquer- tastes like pears and lichees and flowers) is expensive and worthwhile.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 1:31 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Absolutely worth it for all spirits (I can't speak to vodka, as I never drink it) and most (if not all) liqueurs. Find a spirit you like in the range you can afford, but splurge on the cocktail fixings (the Cointreaus, the Chambords, the Chartreuses). You use much less of them than the base liquor in a cocktail, so the cost goes further, but the drop off in quality is steep for the cheap stuff. As long as the base liquor is to your liking (alone in a glass, sipping), it deserves a good (not corn syrupy and artificial flavoring) accoutrement in a cocktail.
If you're just drinking stuff straight (a fine choice with whiskey), it's not necessary to spend more than what gets you a decent bottle of what you like, but it's a nice treat.
posted by crush-onastick at 1:36 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you're just drinking stuff straight (a fine choice with whiskey), it's not necessary to spend more than what gets you a decent bottle of what you like, but it's a nice treat.
posted by crush-onastick at 1:36 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Brandy is what I drink, and when I drink brandy, I drink cognac. I did a blind taste test, and found that Hennessy VS beats both Remy Martin VSOP and Courvoisier VSOP. So I save a couple of bucks on that one. That's my palette, yours may be different.
I know there are constellations of cognacs way above these, but who can afford them? And honestly, when my wife bought me that really expensive bottle one christmas, I thought it was TOO MUCH of a good thing, and I've stayed with the Hennessy ever since.
When I was much younger, I had a friend drag me to a wine tasting. It was revelation, because as one of those guys that was totally against what I thought was a pretentious kinda scene, I finally got it through my thick skull that the only way to know what was enjoyable was to actually go out and find places where I could drink the stuff and compare.
I guess what I'm saying is you gotta try the stuff yourself, and blind tastings are great because they remove the "brand" stigma. So find a high-end bar, one with a good bartender, and hit it in the afternoon when the staff has time to let you try some of the good stuff in sample sizes.
posted by valkane at 2:59 PM on November 23, 2014
I know there are constellations of cognacs way above these, but who can afford them? And honestly, when my wife bought me that really expensive bottle one christmas, I thought it was TOO MUCH of a good thing, and I've stayed with the Hennessy ever since.
When I was much younger, I had a friend drag me to a wine tasting. It was revelation, because as one of those guys that was totally against what I thought was a pretentious kinda scene, I finally got it through my thick skull that the only way to know what was enjoyable was to actually go out and find places where I could drink the stuff and compare.
I guess what I'm saying is you gotta try the stuff yourself, and blind tastings are great because they remove the "brand" stigma. So find a high-end bar, one with a good bartender, and hit it in the afternoon when the staff has time to let you try some of the good stuff in sample sizes.
posted by valkane at 2:59 PM on November 23, 2014
Gin, for one. Tanqueray 10 + Q tonic + key lime = a really excellent G&T. Gin has a big and well-differentiated spectrum - Cadenhead Old Raj is about as high as I'll go in that spectrum and that is for Aviations as they were once made at Farina and the lost and lamented early days of the Plum bar in Oakland. There is a St. George herbal gin that absolutely sucks in cocktails yet is delicious straight, too. And the jenevers that are meant to be served cold and straight are another facet of a pretty big party.
Tequila. The difference between Herradura añejo and the run-of-the-mill brands is easily discerned. Drinking Herradura straight is good; drinking Sauza straight does not appeal to me.
posted by jet_silver at 3:43 PM on November 23, 2014
Tequila. The difference between Herradura añejo and the run-of-the-mill brands is easily discerned. Drinking Herradura straight is good; drinking Sauza straight does not appeal to me.
posted by jet_silver at 3:43 PM on November 23, 2014
Soooo easy: Do some taste tests. Do them right -- double blind. Choose the ones you like. If they cost less, you win. If they cost more, you still win. You just pay a little more.
posted by LonnieK at 5:06 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by LonnieK at 5:06 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
So find a high-end bar, one with a good bartender, and hit it in the afternoon when the staff has time to let you try some of the good stuff in sample sizes.
This is absolutely the best way to taste test alcohol. Go to a nice place when they are slow, and make it clear that you aren't asking for freebies. And bring pen and paper because you may not remember things perfectly later.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:40 PM on November 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
This is absolutely the best way to taste test alcohol. Go to a nice place when they are slow, and make it clear that you aren't asking for freebies. And bring pen and paper because you may not remember things perfectly later.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:40 PM on November 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Agree on the Calvados.
Also Kirschwasser - but favor German over French (the French tastes awful, in general).
posted by plinth at 6:04 PM on November 23, 2014
Also Kirschwasser - but favor German over French (the French tastes awful, in general).
posted by plinth at 6:04 PM on November 23, 2014
Champagne. Cheap stuff is just wine with bubbles, but the the good stuff is starlight in a glass.
posted by wwax at 6:06 PM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by wwax at 6:06 PM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sake. Served cold... from very polished rice... fresh and unpasteurized if you can get it (don't let it sit on a shelf) but some sake is aged to good effect. And quality does track price pretty well.
posted by Captain Shenanigan at 7:02 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Captain Shenanigan at 7:02 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Definitely vodka and tequila in my experience. Gray Goose isn't super expensive, but far more than low and mid-shelf brands, but was far more smooth. Same with Patron vs. cheap tequila.
posted by kup0 at 7:18 PM on November 23, 2014
posted by kup0 at 7:18 PM on November 23, 2014
Atheist in church here. Scotch edition.
I mostly drink Clan MacGregor ($20/1.75L), but I get better stuff on birthdays and in bars (Macallan, Glenlivet). In side-by-side comparisons, I can tell the difference between them, but I could not say one is 'better' than another. They are just a little different. and much less different than, say, oranges of the same type but from different lots.
The single malts seem to generally be less rough than the mixed ones, but this is variable--Johnny Walker (various colors) is comparatively bland (and JW Black, which I got once out of curiosity, is one of those--"well, this is really interesting and different and kind of nice and I will never ever get it again", like a resaurant that serves porcupine tacos.)
So for me, at least, the astronomical price differences translate into tiny quality differences of uncertain sign (positive or negative) and so completely notworthit. The absolutely cheapest stuff, with which I have also 'experimented', must be avoided, unless you're doing scotch-and-soda. Don't do scotch-and-soda. Daquaris are much better, and not so disrespectful.
And then there's the Kraken, which I bought the first time I saw it because of its wonderful label, and was amazed to find the contents a pretty tasty cough medicine, good enough even when you're not coughing. Myers Rum had always been my preferred brand in this category, but Kraken is almost as good and lots cheaper. And the squiddly label! <3!
posted by hexatron at 7:59 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I mostly drink Clan MacGregor ($20/1.75L), but I get better stuff on birthdays and in bars (Macallan, Glenlivet). In side-by-side comparisons, I can tell the difference between them, but I could not say one is 'better' than another. They are just a little different. and much less different than, say, oranges of the same type but from different lots.
The single malts seem to generally be less rough than the mixed ones, but this is variable--Johnny Walker (various colors) is comparatively bland (and JW Black, which I got once out of curiosity, is one of those--"well, this is really interesting and different and kind of nice and I will never ever get it again", like a resaurant that serves porcupine tacos.)
So for me, at least, the astronomical price differences translate into tiny quality differences of uncertain sign (positive or negative) and so completely notworthit. The absolutely cheapest stuff, with which I have also 'experimented', must be avoided, unless you're doing scotch-and-soda. Don't do scotch-and-soda. Daquaris are much better, and not so disrespectful.
And then there's the Kraken, which I bought the first time I saw it because of its wonderful label, and was amazed to find the contents a pretty tasty cough medicine, good enough even when you're not coughing. Myers Rum had always been my preferred brand in this category, but Kraken is almost as good and lots cheaper. And the squiddly label! <3!
posted by hexatron at 7:59 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Everything's going to be pretty decent above a certain price point. Higher for certain liquors and lower for others. I mean, I don't even buy cognac because in my opinion the quality/$ slope is meh.
There's also longer-term trends to consider. When the tequila market exploded some years back and supply couldn't meet demand, you were looking at $40 for a decent bottle. Presumably the market hit saturation at some point, and now you can get 100% agave for $20ish. Right now bourbon and rye are hot, so you've got folks starting up new labels with juice they buy from wholesalers (as papayaninja alluded to above). I only mention this because I've been disappointed in the value proposition some of these brands have put forth.
The bottom line is, go forth and explore.
posted by Standard Orange at 8:46 PM on November 23, 2014
There's also longer-term trends to consider. When the tequila market exploded some years back and supply couldn't meet demand, you were looking at $40 for a decent bottle. Presumably the market hit saturation at some point, and now you can get 100% agave for $20ish. Right now bourbon and rye are hot, so you've got folks starting up new labels with juice they buy from wholesalers (as papayaninja alluded to above). I only mention this because I've been disappointed in the value proposition some of these brands have put forth.
The bottom line is, go forth and explore.
posted by Standard Orange at 8:46 PM on November 23, 2014
In the spirits industry, "premium" was around $18 for a 750ml bottle as of a trade event I attended a few years ago. So one man's upgrade is possibly another man's starting point, especially if the other man is Sydney Frank. That said:
There is a definite difference between inexpensive and premium vodka, and it comes down to two details in production: how pure the distillate is in the first place, and how well it's filtered after that. Premium vodka (e.g. Absolut) is going to be a higher quality distillate, filtered better, than, say, Ambassador or Velicoff (the choice of street drunks around here). Super premium vodka, on the other hand, has little to distinguish it from premium vodka other than marketing and a fancier bottle, so the sweet spot is in the $15-20 range. Like Smirnoff, which won the New York Times' taste test.
At the extreme other end of the spectrum, Cognac is regionally restricted, legally protected, and time consuming and expensive to produce. Good Cognac starts around $30 for a small label at a good shop here in DC, and the longer it is aged, or the more particular the oak used for its barrels, or the more targeted its branding, the more expensive it gets. There is fine French brandy that doesn't come from the Cognac region (Armagnac) or not from grapes (Calvados); there is fine brandy from Jerez, where sherry got its name; there's also a producer of Cognac style brandy in California that makes some insanely delicious stuff (that'd be Germain-Robin). With any aged brandy you're going to pay for the time, the reduced yield, the overhead, and the Angels' share before you even get to the markup. But don't be tempted to buy the $14 domestic brandy you'll find, because it's just not good.
For Scotch whisky and American bourbon you usually get what you pay for, with a couple big asterisks. First, the whisky/whiskey market is designed to maximize profit by getting you to spend more money for perceived rarity, and most people assume age and quality go hand in hand (e.g. 23 year old Pappy must be better than 15 or 18 year old bottling from the same distillers). That's not to say that Pappy 23 is bad, but many people who work with Bourbon put its optimal age around eight years, and really old American whiskey is totally different from really old Scotch. Scotland is colder so Scotch can be aged longer, but people still plunk down more money for, say, Macallan 18 than they'd spend on two bottles of Macallan 15, and I know which one I'd be more likely to buy. The second thing is that with, say, bourbon there are actually some really high quality whiskeys that won't break the bank (Evan Williams black label, Four Roses yellow label, Buffalo Trace). There are definitely bourbons worth upgrading to (Four Roses small batch, Eagle Rare, etc) but you don't need to pay for 15 year old bourbon to get a really nice bottle. On the other hand Scotch whisky tends to taste too young below about ten years age, so a decent single malt or quality blend is probably going to start around $40 and go up rapidly from there.
And if you're making cocktails, Cointreau or Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao are well worth the additional cost over cheap triple sec, but our local liquor store turned us on to Lazzaroni maraschino, which is cheaper than Luxardo but equally high quality (but we prefer Luxardo amaretto to Disaronno). And many cordials and aperitifs are specified by name in recipes so you can't get around buying them if you want to make good cocktails at home.
For any spirit with premium and super premium options, I'm nth-ing the recommendation you sample things at a bar on a quiet night and take notes. I've had many bartenders happily play along as I tasted my way through various flights.
posted by fedward at 10:10 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
There is a definite difference between inexpensive and premium vodka, and it comes down to two details in production: how pure the distillate is in the first place, and how well it's filtered after that. Premium vodka (e.g. Absolut) is going to be a higher quality distillate, filtered better, than, say, Ambassador or Velicoff (the choice of street drunks around here). Super premium vodka, on the other hand, has little to distinguish it from premium vodka other than marketing and a fancier bottle, so the sweet spot is in the $15-20 range. Like Smirnoff, which won the New York Times' taste test.
At the extreme other end of the spectrum, Cognac is regionally restricted, legally protected, and time consuming and expensive to produce. Good Cognac starts around $30 for a small label at a good shop here in DC, and the longer it is aged, or the more particular the oak used for its barrels, or the more targeted its branding, the more expensive it gets. There is fine French brandy that doesn't come from the Cognac region (Armagnac) or not from grapes (Calvados); there is fine brandy from Jerez, where sherry got its name; there's also a producer of Cognac style brandy in California that makes some insanely delicious stuff (that'd be Germain-Robin). With any aged brandy you're going to pay for the time, the reduced yield, the overhead, and the Angels' share before you even get to the markup. But don't be tempted to buy the $14 domestic brandy you'll find, because it's just not good.
For Scotch whisky and American bourbon you usually get what you pay for, with a couple big asterisks. First, the whisky/whiskey market is designed to maximize profit by getting you to spend more money for perceived rarity, and most people assume age and quality go hand in hand (e.g. 23 year old Pappy must be better than 15 or 18 year old bottling from the same distillers). That's not to say that Pappy 23 is bad, but many people who work with Bourbon put its optimal age around eight years, and really old American whiskey is totally different from really old Scotch. Scotland is colder so Scotch can be aged longer, but people still plunk down more money for, say, Macallan 18 than they'd spend on two bottles of Macallan 15, and I know which one I'd be more likely to buy. The second thing is that with, say, bourbon there are actually some really high quality whiskeys that won't break the bank (Evan Williams black label, Four Roses yellow label, Buffalo Trace). There are definitely bourbons worth upgrading to (Four Roses small batch, Eagle Rare, etc) but you don't need to pay for 15 year old bourbon to get a really nice bottle. On the other hand Scotch whisky tends to taste too young below about ten years age, so a decent single malt or quality blend is probably going to start around $40 and go up rapidly from there.
And if you're making cocktails, Cointreau or Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao are well worth the additional cost over cheap triple sec, but our local liquor store turned us on to Lazzaroni maraschino, which is cheaper than Luxardo but equally high quality (but we prefer Luxardo amaretto to Disaronno). And many cordials and aperitifs are specified by name in recipes so you can't get around buying them if you want to make good cocktails at home.
For any spirit with premium and super premium options, I'm nth-ing the recommendation you sample things at a bar on a quiet night and take notes. I've had many bartenders happily play along as I tasted my way through various flights.
posted by fedward at 10:10 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The inflection point for bourbon and rye is really pretty low, even though the market is blurrier these days with independent bottlers and their evasive backstories: you get into the good stuff at $25-30, though the old bargains like Weller Special Reserve (aka Pappy van Younger) are less so than they were.
Calvados is a weird one. Younger, cheaper versions can be more applejacky, with slightly rougher edges, but more expensive ones with longer in barrel tend to come out more like cognac, and there's a point there at which you lose the apple-y distinctiveness.
posted by holgate at 10:40 PM on November 23, 2014
Calvados is a weird one. Younger, cheaper versions can be more applejacky, with slightly rougher edges, but more expensive ones with longer in barrel tend to come out more like cognac, and there's a point there at which you lose the apple-y distinctiveness.
posted by holgate at 10:40 PM on November 23, 2014
What other alcohol is worth spending extra money to get The Good Stuff?
Wine. While you're not in the key wine regions of North America (but are in an excellent sub-region, you can quickly pick up a few key ideas from going to a few tastings and taking notes.
1) Find wine bars and specialty wine shops that run tastings
2) Attend tastings, take notes
3) Determine which regions, grape varietals, and styles you prefer.
Wine is almost always about 'price point.' Moving from one to the next - $10 to $17, say, can be a revelatory experience.
Or not. Move from a style, a grape you do like - to one you don't - and it all falls apart. So some education is useful. And only you know your palate. Drink things you enjoy, but take time to find out what precisely that is.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:10 AM on November 24, 2014
Wine. While you're not in the key wine regions of North America (but are in an excellent sub-region, you can quickly pick up a few key ideas from going to a few tastings and taking notes.
1) Find wine bars and specialty wine shops that run tastings
2) Attend tastings, take notes
3) Determine which regions, grape varietals, and styles you prefer.
Wine is almost always about 'price point.' Moving from one to the next - $10 to $17, say, can be a revelatory experience.
Or not. Move from a style, a grape you do like - to one you don't - and it all falls apart. So some education is useful. And only you know your palate. Drink things you enjoy, but take time to find out what precisely that is.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:10 AM on November 24, 2014
German gin! Monkey 47 Schwarzwald Dry Gin is sublime. And just this weekend I discovered Baltic Dry Gin from a tiny distillery, Gutsbrennerei Zinzow. No idea how widely available this one is, but oh my goodness. You can try at their website. Both of these were under 40 euros.
posted by dmvs at 5:00 AM on November 24, 2014
posted by dmvs at 5:00 AM on November 24, 2014
Any non-neutral distilled spirit will benefit from spending a little extra. This is everything except vodka.
Vodka: Once you get above the Stoli - Absolut level, you're wasting money.
Gin: A neutral spirit infused with botanicals. You're paying more for nuance in the mix of botanicals
Eaux de Vie (grappa, kirschwasser, etc): These are not really aged, no real benefit to paying more once you get above the Drano level.
Rum & Tequila: They become very different drinks as they age. You'll get the best price/quality improvement here, because they're (relatively) newly marketed as aged spirits
Whisky & Brandy: These are where everyone knows that extra money gets you something pretty great. Best value for money is in the American bourbon/rye space (but there are so goddamn many of them!). Calvados is also usually a pretty decent bargain. Whisky's somewhere in the middle. You can get absolutely mugged by Cognac. Blame the LMVH industrial complex. Armagnac is my preferred drink in this space, but it's a bit hard to come by. It drinks better younger, and younger is usually cheaper.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:16 AM on November 24, 2014
Vodka: Once you get above the Stoli - Absolut level, you're wasting money.
Gin: A neutral spirit infused with botanicals. You're paying more for nuance in the mix of botanicals
Eaux de Vie (grappa, kirschwasser, etc): These are not really aged, no real benefit to paying more once you get above the Drano level.
Rum & Tequila: They become very different drinks as they age. You'll get the best price/quality improvement here, because they're (relatively) newly marketed as aged spirits
Whisky & Brandy: These are where everyone knows that extra money gets you something pretty great. Best value for money is in the American bourbon/rye space (but there are so goddamn many of them!). Calvados is also usually a pretty decent bargain. Whisky's somewhere in the middle. You can get absolutely mugged by Cognac. Blame the LMVH industrial complex. Armagnac is my preferred drink in this space, but it's a bit hard to come by. It drinks better younger, and younger is usually cheaper.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:16 AM on November 24, 2014
Try Wild Turkey Rare Breed. It's hard to find and Ten or Twenty Dollars more than 101. But it is far and away the best bourbon I have enjoyed.
posted by IfIShouldEverComeBack at 3:05 PM on November 24, 2014
posted by IfIShouldEverComeBack at 3:05 PM on November 24, 2014
A couple of people mentioned St. Germain, the elderflower liqueur. There's a less pricey knock-off called St. Elder. In a blind taste test at my house, we found we slightly preferred the cheaper stuff. We also found that for mixing, as opposed to sipping neat, there's no rye we liked better than the quite cheap Old Overholt.
posted by Jasper Fnorde at 7:48 AM on November 25, 2014
posted by Jasper Fnorde at 7:48 AM on November 25, 2014
I was TOTALLY, COMPLETELY in the "all vodkas are basically flavorless" camp until I tried Boyden & Blair.
Now I keep a bottle in the fridge at all times.
I am a bourbon lover, but only keep two in stock: Jim Beam (for mixing, cheap but very drinkable) and Booker's Cask-Strength. The latter has obviated the need for any other bourbon in my life. Wow.
In scotches, I keep several around. Multiple rums. Ditto gins, althogh I like the oiliness and flavor of Tanqueray over all others I've tried.
posted by IAmBroom at 9:20 AM on November 25, 2014
Now I keep a bottle in the fridge at all times.
I am a bourbon lover, but only keep two in stock: Jim Beam (for mixing, cheap but very drinkable) and Booker's Cask-Strength. The latter has obviated the need for any other bourbon in my life. Wow.
In scotches, I keep several around. Multiple rums. Ditto gins, althogh I like the oiliness and flavor of Tanqueray over all others I've tried.
posted by IAmBroom at 9:20 AM on November 25, 2014
To pipe in on the vodka commentary, I'd like to mention that although there are definite quality differences to be found between vodkas, the market has too many inexpensive gems, and too much overpriced swill for price to distinguish meaningfully between them. My usual go-to vodka, Extra Zytnia, is usually cheaper than Smirnoff, but much closer in quality to Grey Goose.
Also, it's worth noting that as a proxy for quality in vodka, purity is as misleading as price. The best vodka distillers save some fractions out of the heads of the distillations (i.e. the cooler-boiling compounds that come out before the ethanol--often rich with esters), sometimes refine them further, and reintroduce them in a carefully controlled manner in order to clear out the taste of rubbing alcohol that pure ethanol and water would leave quite intact. (This practice is why potato vodkas and rye vodkas specify what feedstock is used for the fermentation: because it affects what flavours are available in the heads for later use.)
posted by kiwano at 7:37 AM on November 27, 2014
Also, it's worth noting that as a proxy for quality in vodka, purity is as misleading as price. The best vodka distillers save some fractions out of the heads of the distillations (i.e. the cooler-boiling compounds that come out before the ethanol--often rich with esters), sometimes refine them further, and reintroduce them in a carefully controlled manner in order to clear out the taste of rubbing alcohol that pure ethanol and water would leave quite intact. (This practice is why potato vodkas and rye vodkas specify what feedstock is used for the fermentation: because it affects what flavours are available in the heads for later use.)
posted by kiwano at 7:37 AM on November 27, 2014
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by saradarlin at 10:14 AM on November 23, 2014 [6 favorites]