Help me get the vacation time I deserve
November 9, 2005 9:00 AM Subscribe
My company is being stingy with holiday vacation time. Help me figure out what to do.
I work at a small (< 20 employees) private company run by one person. The company handbook states we get 10 vacation days, 5 of which are required to be at Christmas, as well as major holidays (including Christmas and New Year's Day). This year, the office is going to be closed the 5 days between Christmas and New Year's Day, which are both on Sundays. We have been told that we will not be closed on January 2nd (the work holiday for New Year's Day), and that we will not be paid for the holidays of Christmas and New Year's, because they are on weekends, and because our boss already feels she "gives us so much" in the form of random, unpromised perks. I just want to get what is rightfully mine. My supervisor says she already spoke to the head of the company, and that if I want this, I have to speak to this person myself. What do I do? Is this legal? What's my recourse? It's not my dream job or field.
I work at a small (< 20 employees) private company run by one person. The company handbook states we get 10 vacation days, 5 of which are required to be at Christmas, as well as major holidays (including Christmas and New Year's Day). This year, the office is going to be closed the 5 days between Christmas and New Year's Day, which are both on Sundays. We have been told that we will not be closed on January 2nd (the work holiday for New Year's Day), and that we will not be paid for the holidays of Christmas and New Year's, because they are on weekends, and because our boss already feels she "gives us so much" in the form of random, unpromised perks. I just want to get what is rightfully mine. My supervisor says she already spoke to the head of the company, and that if I want this, I have to speak to this person myself. What do I do? Is this legal? What's my recourse? It's not my dream job or field.
Response by poster: I do have a written company manual, miss tea, as well as a list of the holidays we get off.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:19 AM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:19 AM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Why would they pay you for Christmas and New Years if they're both on Sundays?
posted by cmonkey at 9:22 AM on November 9, 2005
posted by cmonkey at 9:22 AM on November 9, 2005
Erk. That sounds really shit, actually, not just stingy. I really would look for another job, and when you find one, make it clear why you're leaving - andrew cooke's right. It only takes a year in a place like that to wear you down. Why wait until next year to leave when you can leave (hopefully) soon and be less miserable?
If you want to give them a chance to prove how generous they probably won't be before you start your hunt, go to the head of the company and start with... well, don't WalMart have a stated number of holidays?
Do a little research. Hitting stingy bosses with what the service industries give their people always seems to have more of an effect. State that you simply want to be on a par with what even grunts get. Or words to that effect. Tell them that it's an active disappointment when a company gives you less holiday than the majority of workers are allowed.
But it likely won't change much. After all, they'd have to give everyone else more holiday if they gave it to you, so they'll back away from it. And if they did give you more holiday, you'd be resented by everyone else.
posted by paperpete at 9:22 AM on November 9, 2005
If you want to give them a chance to prove how generous they probably won't be before you start your hunt, go to the head of the company and start with... well, don't WalMart have a stated number of holidays?
Do a little research. Hitting stingy bosses with what the service industries give their people always seems to have more of an effect. State that you simply want to be on a par with what even grunts get. Or words to that effect. Tell them that it's an active disappointment when a company gives you less holiday than the majority of workers are allowed.
But it likely won't change much. After all, they'd have to give everyone else more holiday if they gave it to you, so they'll back away from it. And if they did give you more holiday, you'd be resented by everyone else.
posted by paperpete at 9:22 AM on November 9, 2005
I'm having trouble making sense of this. They're requiring you to use a week of your vacation time for the week between Christmas and New Year's? Is that the major complaint? Sorry if I'm being dense.
There's nothing (as far as I know, and as part of my job I work with HR departments to structure vacation time policies) illegal about forcing you to use vacation time on specified days. It is pretty stingy to only give a week of employee-specified vacation days. I don't know what the industry standards are for the industry you're employed in, but I would suggest talking to the head of the company and saying that you understand the desire to close the week after Christmas (that's not hugely uncommon), but the lack of vacation throughout the year is a huge problem and not in line with what other companies offer. That's about all you can do, I'd imagine.
posted by MarkAnd at 9:23 AM on November 9, 2005
There's nothing (as far as I know, and as part of my job I work with HR departments to structure vacation time policies) illegal about forcing you to use vacation time on specified days. It is pretty stingy to only give a week of employee-specified vacation days. I don't know what the industry standards are for the industry you're employed in, but I would suggest talking to the head of the company and saying that you understand the desire to close the week after Christmas (that's not hugely uncommon), but the lack of vacation throughout the year is a huge problem and not in line with what other companies offer. That's about all you can do, I'd imagine.
posted by MarkAnd at 9:23 AM on November 9, 2005
Best answer: IANAL, however in New York State (where I assume you are based on your posted zip code) Section 195.5 of the Labor Law states that every employer shall notify his employees in writing or by publicly posting the employer's policy on sick leave, vacation, personal leave, holidays and hours.
If an employer does not have a written policy, the oral policy (or past practice) may be enforced -- if the terms of the policy can be confirmed through an investigation. Moreover, violators of ยง 195.5 are subject to civil penalty.
By not abiding the posted holiday vacation schedule, your employer appears in violation of Section 195.5 of the Labor Law. You could file grievances with the New York State Department of Labor, however merely pointing out the law to your employer may be the easiest route. Once she realizes she is in violation of the law she may change her mind. You may want to weigh the office politics situation before you do anything, though.
More information on New York State's Worker Protection laws is available at their website.
posted by peppermint22 at 9:23 AM on November 9, 2005
If an employer does not have a written policy, the oral policy (or past practice) may be enforced -- if the terms of the policy can be confirmed through an investigation. Moreover, violators of ยง 195.5 are subject to civil penalty.
By not abiding the posted holiday vacation schedule, your employer appears in violation of Section 195.5 of the Labor Law. You could file grievances with the New York State Department of Labor, however merely pointing out the law to your employer may be the easiest route. Once she realizes she is in violation of the law she may change her mind. You may want to weigh the office politics situation before you do anything, though.
More information on New York State's Worker Protection laws is available at their website.
posted by peppermint22 at 9:23 AM on November 9, 2005
Response by poster: No, MarkAnd, that's not my complaint.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:28 AM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:28 AM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
cmonkey/MarkAnd, his issue is that he's being forced to take five of his ten vacation days for a period the rest of us would have to take three (Xmas and New Years day being public holidays, given the monday afterward). Hell, a lot of offices just close and pay for the whole week.
Employers nickel and diming vacation time is about the scummiest thing they can do. I don't know what your legal recourse would be, but I agree with those above who say you should be planning your exit strategy.
posted by jamesonandwater at 9:58 AM on November 9, 2005
Employers nickel and diming vacation time is about the scummiest thing they can do. I don't know what your legal recourse would be, but I agree with those above who say you should be planning your exit strategy.
posted by jamesonandwater at 9:58 AM on November 9, 2005
Response by poster: I already having a meeting set up with the boss for later this week- that could very well be my exit strategy. This weekend's meetup could be Help The PinkSuperhero drink away her sorrows over being unemployed. :-P
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:06 AM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:06 AM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
No, MarkAnd, that's not my complaint.
Ah, I see now.
posted by MarkAnd at 10:16 AM on November 9, 2005
Ah, I see now.
posted by MarkAnd at 10:16 AM on November 9, 2005
cmonkey/MarkAnd, his issue is that he's being forced to take five of his ten vacation days for a period the rest of us would have to take three (Xmas and New Years day being public holidays, given the monday afterward). Hell, a lot of offices just close and pay for the whole week.
Christmas Day, which is usually a public holiday, is on the 25th. New Years Day, which is usually a public holiday, is on the 1st. Both are on days that you generally wouldn't be required to be at work (since they're Sundays), so I don't understand why an employer should pay for them. I've never, ever worked for an employer that would give a holiday on the 26th or the 2nd, as that just doesn't make sense.
Mind you, I'm in the same stupid "forced vacation from the 26th-30th, paid or unpaid" boat, so I'm not trying to defend the employer. Just confused.
posted by cmonkey at 10:36 AM on November 9, 2005
Christmas Day, which is usually a public holiday, is on the 25th. New Years Day, which is usually a public holiday, is on the 1st. Both are on days that you generally wouldn't be required to be at work (since they're Sundays), so I don't understand why an employer should pay for them. I've never, ever worked for an employer that would give a holiday on the 26th or the 2nd, as that just doesn't make sense.
Mind you, I'm in the same stupid "forced vacation from the 26th-30th, paid or unpaid" boat, so I'm not trying to defend the employer. Just confused.
posted by cmonkey at 10:36 AM on November 9, 2005
I've never, ever worked for an employer that would give a holiday on the 26th or the 2nd, as that just doesn't make sense.
I've never, ever worked for an employer who didn't give you the day before or after a public holiday off if the holiday happened to fall on Saturday or Sunday. And I wouldn't work for anyone so clueless.
The idea is to give you the same number of holidays each year, not to rip you off because some holidays happen to fall on weekends. After all, in the years where the holiday falls during the work week, do they make you work a day on the weekend to make up for it?
posted by kindall at 11:13 AM on November 9, 2005
I've never, ever worked for an employer who didn't give you the day before or after a public holiday off if the holiday happened to fall on Saturday or Sunday. And I wouldn't work for anyone so clueless.
The idea is to give you the same number of holidays each year, not to rip you off because some holidays happen to fall on weekends. After all, in the years where the holiday falls during the work week, do they make you work a day on the weekend to make up for it?
posted by kindall at 11:13 AM on November 9, 2005
Response by poster: And I wouldn't work for anyone so clueless.
Not clueless, merely cheap. And so nasty that most people don't dare to cross.
Anyone want to give me a job?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:29 AM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Not clueless, merely cheap. And so nasty that most people don't dare to cross.
Anyone want to give me a job?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:29 AM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
I don't know where Astoria is however the legality of this is very regional. For example in British Columbia you get paid (or receive a day off in lieu) for stats which fall on your regular days off. Right next door in Alberta you do not.
posted by Mitheral at 11:36 AM on November 9, 2005
posted by Mitheral at 11:36 AM on November 9, 2005
In most of the United States, including New York State where PinkSuperhero works, employers are not required to provide paid holidays, sick time, vacation time, etc. Most do, however, because of prevailing market conditions - these benefits are often necessary to recruit and retain good employees.
However, once an employer has stated (either verbally or in writing) the benefits offered with regards to holiday and vacation pay, in New York State he or she is legally bound to those terms. The legal issue here is not that PinkSuperhero's employer does not want to pay for Christmas and New Year's, but rather the fact that this deviates from the terms published in the handbook.
posted by peppermint22 at 12:00 PM on November 9, 2005
However, once an employer has stated (either verbally or in writing) the benefits offered with regards to holiday and vacation pay, in New York State he or she is legally bound to those terms. The legal issue here is not that PinkSuperhero's employer does not want to pay for Christmas and New Year's, but rather the fact that this deviates from the terms published in the handbook.
posted by peppermint22 at 12:00 PM on November 9, 2005
Best answer: cmonkey: Most companies give off "observed" holidays when the majors (christmas, new years) fall on weekends. Mine does, and you'll find that most of your friends companies do too unless they work for very small places.
Part of a job is X number of paid holidays per year. We get a mere 6 (some folks I know get WAY more than that - 11 or 12): New Years, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas.
If any of these fall on a weekend (well, 3 of them can't by nature), it's observed the next Monday, and we get a paid holiday.
This is standard practice at most if not all large companies.
Hell, it was standard practice at my former (tiny) employer, and they were as stingy as the poster's here...
And on that note: Find a new job. I spent 3.5 years at my last job even though I knew I was being raked over the coals. "It's a startup!" I'd tell myself -- "things will get better when there's more money here". "My boss means well", I'd tell myself.
After 3 years there, I was sick ALL the time, I was miserable, I was depressed, and I was really, really unmotivated toward the end. I had to force myself to work.
Don't let it go that far.
posted by twiggy at 12:18 PM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Part of a job is X number of paid holidays per year. We get a mere 6 (some folks I know get WAY more than that - 11 or 12): New Years, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas.
If any of these fall on a weekend (well, 3 of them can't by nature), it's observed the next Monday, and we get a paid holiday.
This is standard practice at most if not all large companies.
Hell, it was standard practice at my former (tiny) employer, and they were as stingy as the poster's here...
And on that note: Find a new job. I spent 3.5 years at my last job even though I knew I was being raked over the coals. "It's a startup!" I'd tell myself -- "things will get better when there's more money here". "My boss means well", I'd tell myself.
After 3 years there, I was sick ALL the time, I was miserable, I was depressed, and I was really, really unmotivated toward the end. I had to force myself to work.
Don't let it go that far.
posted by twiggy at 12:18 PM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks twiggy (and everybody) for the encouragement.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:24 PM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:24 PM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Unless you *really* want to piss off your employer, I would consult a lawyer first to determine if the employer is in violation of NY labor law before throwing around the accusations of breaking the law.
posted by footnote at 1:11 PM on November 9, 2005
posted by footnote at 1:11 PM on November 9, 2005
Response by poster: Trust me, at this point, footnote, I could really care less. But you make a good point.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:34 PM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:34 PM on November 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Um... The first part of your exit strategy is not a meeting with your stingy boss. If you know you're leaving, find another job first if you can.
posted by rdr at 8:02 PM on November 9, 2005
posted by rdr at 8:02 PM on November 9, 2005
One thing to understand is that whatever actions you take as an individual are limited as such. You open yourself up to retaliation, and marginalization if you get in the bosses' way. However since this sounds like a common problem, to solve it you really need to address it as a group.
However I can't really tell you how to do that here, since there are inevitably a lot of errors one would make in escalating the situation if I you just read it as a schematic. Where are you located? I know people all over the country who can help in situations like this, walk you all through a strategy of how to hold management accountable, and support you if anything goes wrong. Email me if you want to get references or talk more.
Quitting though it sounds nice means other people will have to deal, you may have to deal at your next job, and your boss gets away with it. Quitting can make sense, but it's also the least effective means of resistance.
good luck
posted by aussicht at 10:43 AM on November 10, 2005
However I can't really tell you how to do that here, since there are inevitably a lot of errors one would make in escalating the situation if I you just read it as a schematic. Where are you located? I know people all over the country who can help in situations like this, walk you all through a strategy of how to hold management accountable, and support you if anything goes wrong. Email me if you want to get references or talk more.
Quitting though it sounds nice means other people will have to deal, you may have to deal at your next job, and your boss gets away with it. Quitting can make sense, but it's also the least effective means of resistance.
good luck
posted by aussicht at 10:43 AM on November 10, 2005
Response by poster: Follow-up: Turns out we do get reimbursed for the holiday time that is on weekends, but the way it was handled was frightening and par for the course at this place (A told me very clearly to talk to B, and the B yelled at me for not talking to A in front of A, who of course said nothing). I've always stayed in touch with a start-up company I worked for in college, and whaddyaknow, they're at the point where they can hire full-time. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse, so I didn't refuse it. I gave my notice yesterday. Thanks all!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:02 AM on November 16, 2005 [2 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:02 AM on November 16, 2005 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:11 AM on November 9, 2005