Haven't seen my elderly neighbor for a few days. Time to worry?
August 14, 2014 9:40 AM Subscribe
We have an elderly neighbor on our block that hasn't been seen for 4-5 days. What's the next step?
There is an elderly woman (I think she's 86) living by herself two doors down from us. I've chatted with her before and she's fairly active and still gets around. I don't know her very well though and I don't have contact info for her. There is a granddaughter who comes by to help her out and I'm pretty sure I saw her last weekend sweeping up around the house. The neighbors between her house and our house are out of town since Saturday and I've been going over to their house every day to feed their cats. They may have contact info but won't be home until tomorrow evening.
Her trash bins were out on Sunday since pickup is Monday morning. They have not been brought in yet (Thursday) and typically she does that the same day. Her car is parked in front of her house and received a parking ticket on Tuesday since it was street cleaning day. Typically she is like clockwork in moving her car and often parks in her garage anyway.
I wouldn't have made much note of any of this if her next door neighbors on the other side of her hadn't come over wondering if we'd seen her on Tuesday. They pointed out the trash bins and the parking ticket and said this was all highly unusual for her. They don't have contact info for her either.
The eldery neighbor has had health issues before including a heart problem that hospitalized her briefly last year. After chatting I suggested that maybe we should call the police and have them do a wellness check. They did and the police came over, rang the doorbell, looked in any windows they could (it was dark so they used flashlights) but the house was totally dark and quiet.
So yes, she could have gone away for the week. Do we just wait and see? I can't think of anything else we should be doing. Either she's away and will come back at some point (or not) or she's deceased in the house, right? But in any of these cases, there's not a clear next step than just to wait?
The last bit of weirdness is that as of yesterday morning (the morning after the wellness check), there was a small bag of groceries including half of a quart of milk (opened), some pita bread, and a mango and maybe something else in it at the top of the stairs to her house. Still there this morning.
There is an elderly woman (I think she's 86) living by herself two doors down from us. I've chatted with her before and she's fairly active and still gets around. I don't know her very well though and I don't have contact info for her. There is a granddaughter who comes by to help her out and I'm pretty sure I saw her last weekend sweeping up around the house. The neighbors between her house and our house are out of town since Saturday and I've been going over to their house every day to feed their cats. They may have contact info but won't be home until tomorrow evening.
Her trash bins were out on Sunday since pickup is Monday morning. They have not been brought in yet (Thursday) and typically she does that the same day. Her car is parked in front of her house and received a parking ticket on Tuesday since it was street cleaning day. Typically she is like clockwork in moving her car and often parks in her garage anyway.
I wouldn't have made much note of any of this if her next door neighbors on the other side of her hadn't come over wondering if we'd seen her on Tuesday. They pointed out the trash bins and the parking ticket and said this was all highly unusual for her. They don't have contact info for her either.
The eldery neighbor has had health issues before including a heart problem that hospitalized her briefly last year. After chatting I suggested that maybe we should call the police and have them do a wellness check. They did and the police came over, rang the doorbell, looked in any windows they could (it was dark so they used flashlights) but the house was totally dark and quiet.
So yes, she could have gone away for the week. Do we just wait and see? I can't think of anything else we should be doing. Either she's away and will come back at some point (or not) or she's deceased in the house, right? But in any of these cases, there's not a clear next step than just to wait?
The last bit of weirdness is that as of yesterday morning (the morning after the wellness check), there was a small bag of groceries including half of a quart of milk (opened), some pita bread, and a mango and maybe something else in it at the top of the stairs to her house. Still there this morning.
Call the police and ask them to check on her. And do so immediately since she could also be injured or sick.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
Call the nonemergency number for the police and ask for a welfare check.
posted by metahawk at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by metahawk at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2014 [11 favorites]
I think my first thought would be to call police and just describe all of this to them. I'm sure they have protocol for these types of situations.
posted by foxhat10 at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2014
posted by foxhat10 at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2014
I would leave a note on her door or in her mailbox expressing concern about the car and the trash bin and include your contact info, so that if she or someone else is coming to/from the house at irregular hours they can get in touch with you.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:46 AM on August 14, 2014
posted by Rock Steady at 9:46 AM on August 14, 2014
Yes yes yes it is time to do something. Good on your for being a great neighbor and noticing! When did you contact the police for a wellness check? If it's been a day or so, call them again and tell them that she still hasn't appeared. If nothing comes of it-I, personally, would start to take drastic measures. I mean, food left at the top of the stairs for days? That sounds like someone who has had a stroke and doesn't know what's going on.
posted by FirstMateKate at 9:46 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by FirstMateKate at 9:46 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes, please call the police.
I would also like to add that the police are limited in what they can do as far as entering the home. If there's no answer and the police decide they have to leave, well...the open groceries sitting out would be, for me personally, clearly in the grounds of smashing a window with a brick to get in and make sure there isn't an elderly woman injured and lying on the floor of the kitchen out of eyesight.
I would want someone to do this for my 90 year old grandmother.
posted by phunniemee at 9:47 AM on August 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
I would also like to add that the police are limited in what they can do as far as entering the home. If there's no answer and the police decide they have to leave, well...the open groceries sitting out would be, for me personally, clearly in the grounds of smashing a window with a brick to get in and make sure there isn't an elderly woman injured and lying on the floor of the kitchen out of eyesight.
I would want someone to do this for my 90 year old grandmother.
posted by phunniemee at 9:47 AM on August 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Note that a police wellness check was already done. And didn't seem to adequately address the situation.
If she is lying dead in there, or otherwise incapacitated, eventually someone is going to have to open the door and find out. If not the police on a wellness check, I don't know who.
posted by Naberius at 9:48 AM on August 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
If she is lying dead in there, or otherwise incapacitated, eventually someone is going to have to open the door and find out. If not the police on a wellness check, I don't know who.
posted by Naberius at 9:48 AM on August 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: In case it's not clear, the police DID come on Tuesday night and found nothing to alarm them. She didn't answer the door but they looked in all the windows that they could and saw nothing alarming (I'm not sure what they can see but they went into the backyard and looked from there as well). So from their perspective, she's away from the house and they see no reason to break in or anything like that.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 9:48 AM on August 14, 2014
posted by otherwordlyglow at 9:48 AM on August 14, 2014
To me, the food suggests a relative or other caregiver came by to drop off some things and found no answer at the door, as the police did.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:48 AM on August 14, 2014
posted by Rock Steady at 9:48 AM on August 14, 2014
Call the police again, speak with a supervisor, get them to do a meaningful wellness check. If they won't/don't, go take in the trash cans, knock on the door. If she answers, great. otherwise, talk to the neighbors and decide which window to break to get in, and be ready with supplies to repair it.
posted by theora55 at 9:52 AM on August 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 9:52 AM on August 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
Go over yourself and ring the doorbell and look around, and, by all means, call the police again and ask them to come out for as many times as it takes.
posted by quince at 9:56 AM on August 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by quince at 9:56 AM on August 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
ProTip for readers: if you have an elderly loved one living on their own and outside your immediate range, get to know a couple of their neighbors. My elderly mother lives alone out in the country a good three hour drive from me. But we've got good friends/bolt-on family that live nearby and are there if something happens and they can get in touch with me.
If otherworldlyglow or another neighbor had contact information for this woman's granddaughter, this would be a lot simpler. At the moment, the police don't see a reason to enter the house and nobody else can do so without breaking in as recommended above, which could potentially make things worse. Who knows how long it will be before the granddaughter starts to worry and shows up to open the door?
posted by Naberius at 9:57 AM on August 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
If otherworldlyglow or another neighbor had contact information for this woman's granddaughter, this would be a lot simpler. At the moment, the police don't see a reason to enter the house and nobody else can do so without breaking in as recommended above, which could potentially make things worse. Who knows how long it will be before the granddaughter starts to worry and shows up to open the door?
posted by Naberius at 9:57 AM on August 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
I'd leave the trash bins out, in case they prompt another neighbor who has keys or contact information for her relatives, to notice them. In the meanwhile, have you tried knocking on a few other neighbors' doors to see if anyone has a close relationship with her?
posted by tapir-whorf at 9:58 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by tapir-whorf at 9:58 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
In many states, the police cannot enter a home during a wellness/welfare check without a warrant.
Call them again, ask for a supervisor and explain that you're calling about a previously unresolved wellness visit. If you have it give the incident report number. If not, you may need to provide details (date, time, names/badge numbers of officers who came to the house if you have them.)
Ask what next steps can be taken by you or by them to make sure that your elderly neighbor hasn't passed away in her house. Make sure that you tell them this behavior (parking ticket, no activity, etc) is out of the ordinary and several people on your block are very concerned for her well-being.
posted by zarq at 9:58 AM on August 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Call them again, ask for a supervisor and explain that you're calling about a previously unresolved wellness visit. If you have it give the incident report number. If not, you may need to provide details (date, time, names/badge numbers of officers who came to the house if you have them.)
Ask what next steps can be taken by you or by them to make sure that your elderly neighbor hasn't passed away in her house. Make sure that you tell them this behavior (parking ticket, no activity, etc) is out of the ordinary and several people on your block are very concerned for her well-being.
posted by zarq at 9:58 AM on August 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Honestly, though: I think this is a situation where I'd strongly consider breaking in--once I had called the police for a second wellness check, then meanwhile knocked on all the doors on the block to ask neighbors if they had relative contact information or keys, and perhaps looked up the house on the city property assessment website (if your city has one of these, it can be useful to find out the name of the property owner, which could be distinct enough that you can look up other relatives in the phone book...).
posted by tapir-whorf at 10:01 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by tapir-whorf at 10:01 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you have an emergency number of contact information for the neighbor inbetween houses for whom you are feeding the cats, contact them and ask for contact information for elderly neighbor. Call the granddaughter.
posted by 724A at 10:02 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by 724A at 10:02 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Another thought somewhere between another wellness check and breaking in; break a window and call police to tell them there is a broken window and all the information about the woman not being seen or heard from. That may allow them to enter the house.
posted by 724A at 10:03 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by 724A at 10:03 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
talk to the neighbors and decide which window to break to get in, and be ready with supplies to repair it.
Before breaking a window (and thereby committing a crime,) you might consider checking them all to see if they're locked. Doors too. You never know... one might be open.
If you have a ladder and it's a multi-story home, you and your neighbors can check the upper windows too. People don't always lock their upper-level windows, since they're harder to reach from the ground.
If you do break in, consider doing it during the day and as a group. Let her other next-door neighbors know what's going on, in case they see something. To an outsider, one person breaking into a house is a burglar. Three neighbors doing it together would more likely be seen as good Samaritans.
posted by zarq at 10:05 AM on August 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
Before breaking a window (and thereby committing a crime,) you might consider checking them all to see if they're locked. Doors too. You never know... one might be open.
If you have a ladder and it's a multi-story home, you and your neighbors can check the upper windows too. People don't always lock their upper-level windows, since they're harder to reach from the ground.
If you do break in, consider doing it during the day and as a group. Let her other next-door neighbors know what's going on, in case they see something. To an outsider, one person breaking into a house is a burglar. Three neighbors doing it together would more likely be seen as good Samaritans.
posted by zarq at 10:05 AM on August 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
Also, if you do wind up breaking into her house and then subsequently need to call the police or emergency services for her... for heaven's sake, don't volunteer to the cops how you got in. "We were concerned and stopped by" is really all they need to know.
posted by zarq at 10:11 AM on August 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by zarq at 10:11 AM on August 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
One thing I'd do is leave a note on the door with your name and contact info, so if she has relatives who know where she is (vacation? hospital?) but who might be coming around to check on the house they will know that the neighbours are concerned and will be able to let you know what's happening.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
Either she's away and will come back at some point (or not) or she's deceased in the house, right?
Or she's injured or otherwise can't move for some reason? Nthing the suggestion to call the police again, just in case she does need help.
posted by three_red_balloons at 10:17 AM on August 14, 2014 [9 favorites]
Or she's injured or otherwise can't move for some reason? Nthing the suggestion to call the police again, just in case she does need help.
posted by three_red_balloons at 10:17 AM on August 14, 2014 [9 favorites]
Do any of your neighbors know if she's a member of a local church? If this happened with my elderly neighbor, I'd call her parish and see if they could contract a relative. Churches have all kinds of family information.
posted by 26.2 at 10:20 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by 26.2 at 10:20 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
All of the answers about welfare checks and Good Samaritan break-ins sound like a good idea. You could also go look in the windows during the daylight with a flashlight. You may see something the cops couldn't in the dark.
You also say you don't have her contact information or her relatives' info. Do you have her name? At that age, she probably has a landline, and she's probably in the (virtual) phone book. There's also the chance that her relative has the same last name. It would be worth searching for and making some cold calls.
If you don't have her name, that can probably be obtained from property records (assuming she owns). Property records are usually searchable at the county level--usually through "parcel finders." If you want help doing that, memail me. Similarly, you may be able to find contact info for your neighbors who might know more.
posted by purple_bird at 10:37 AM on August 14, 2014
You also say you don't have her contact information or her relatives' info. Do you have her name? At that age, she probably has a landline, and she's probably in the (virtual) phone book. There's also the chance that her relative has the same last name. It would be worth searching for and making some cold calls.
If you don't have her name, that can probably be obtained from property records (assuming she owns). Property records are usually searchable at the county level--usually through "parcel finders." If you want help doing that, memail me. Similarly, you may be able to find contact info for your neighbors who might know more.
posted by purple_bird at 10:37 AM on August 14, 2014
A slip-and-fall in the bathroom that caused major injury would probably not leave her in a place that was visible from looking in windows.
posted by erst at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by erst at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
We had the exact same situation on our block. Exactly the same, including the police visit. I'm sorry to say this, but they did not come back until a few days later, when next door neighbor called and said that now they noticed a smell. Indeed, the neighbor had passed away in his home.
Call the police again and ask them to re-check.
posted by vignettist at 10:48 AM on August 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Call the police again and ask them to re-check.
posted by vignettist at 10:48 AM on August 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Do you know her name? If you know her surname you might try the phone listings (or even Facebook) to see if you can find any likely relatives.
posted by lwb at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2014
posted by lwb at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2014
It is not your place to break into anybody's house, no matter the intentions. Please don't do that.
Do you know this person's full name? Did her children grow up in the area? Can you do some sleuthing on Facebook or Google and maybe track down a relative?
As others have said, you might want to call the police again after another day or two and express your concern. Maybe walk around the home first and see if you can see anything through the curtains or smell anything that you might then report to the police.
You are right to be concerned, but breaking in is not the solution. If it was, the police would have already done that.
posted by bondcliff at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2014
Do you know this person's full name? Did her children grow up in the area? Can you do some sleuthing on Facebook or Google and maybe track down a relative?
As others have said, you might want to call the police again after another day or two and express your concern. Maybe walk around the home first and see if you can see anything through the curtains or smell anything that you might then report to the police.
You are right to be concerned, but breaking in is not the solution. If it was, the police would have already done that.
posted by bondcliff at 10:51 AM on August 14, 2014
Can you contact the people you're catsitting for and ask if they have her granddaughter's contact info?
posted by needs more cowbell at 10:53 AM on August 14, 2014
posted by needs more cowbell at 10:53 AM on August 14, 2014
Response by poster: To answer a few questions: I do know her name but it is quite common. I think I found her phone number online but there is no answer and her last name is way too common for it to be of any use in locating relatives. I do not know of any church or other affiliations. The in-between neighbors are camping out of range (no cell service, no other phone) until probably tomorrow afternoon. I did do a brief check around the in-between neighbor's house when I fed the cats last night to see if they had any readily available phone contact list but I'm not going to ransack their house to see if it's in there somewhere. I'll stop by over lunch and see what I can see.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 10:54 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by otherwordlyglow at 10:54 AM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's not clear to me if anyone has been over to her house during the daylight and knocked, or made other kind of noise. If the police were there in the evening, maybe she had already taken her hearing aids out (assuming she wore them) and just didn't hear them at the time.
Is there a senior citizen group of some kind in your town/area? They may have contact info for a relative.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 11:02 AM on August 14, 2014
Is there a senior citizen group of some kind in your town/area? They may have contact info for a relative.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 11:02 AM on August 14, 2014
You are right to be concerned, but breaking in is not the solution. If it was, the police would have already done that.
No, and here is why. When the police are involved, it's strictly a legal question. Legally you, the civilian, cannot break into someone's house. Legally, a police officer cannot break into someone's house unless certain conditions have been met. Legally, for the police, whether or not breaking into the house is a "solution" is moot because it isn't an option.
This is one of those situations where your personal brand of morals and ethics come up against what is or is not legal.
Like I said above, for me personally, the chance there is a person suffering would far outweigh, for me, the risks (both physical and legal) of breaking into the house. I feel strongly that in this situation, the consequences of my actions wouldn't cause me undue trouble.
If otherworldlyglow is not personally ok with breaking into someone's house, that's a completely reasonable position to take. I just know that as someone who has an elderly relative who lives alone, I wouldn't hesitate, and I'd hope that the neighbors who live near my grandma wouldn't hesitate, either.
posted by phunniemee at 11:05 AM on August 14, 2014 [13 favorites]
No, and here is why. When the police are involved, it's strictly a legal question. Legally you, the civilian, cannot break into someone's house. Legally, a police officer cannot break into someone's house unless certain conditions have been met. Legally, for the police, whether or not breaking into the house is a "solution" is moot because it isn't an option.
This is one of those situations where your personal brand of morals and ethics come up against what is or is not legal.
Like I said above, for me personally, the chance there is a person suffering would far outweigh, for me, the risks (both physical and legal) of breaking into the house. I feel strongly that in this situation, the consequences of my actions wouldn't cause me undue trouble.
If otherworldlyglow is not personally ok with breaking into someone's house, that's a completely reasonable position to take. I just know that as someone who has an elderly relative who lives alone, I wouldn't hesitate, and I'd hope that the neighbors who live near my grandma wouldn't hesitate, either.
posted by phunniemee at 11:05 AM on August 14, 2014 [13 favorites]
Does she have a mailbox? Can you check to see if there is mail accumulating? Again a violation of personal privacy but probably ok in this case - would also give you a name and potentially other contact addresses based upon any existing letters.
If it's empty it might mean her mail is being held - in which case she might just be away. In this case I would leave a note in case someone is picking up the mail and could put your mind at ease...
One note, when hopefully she returns safely make sure you introduce yourself and get the right contact information in case this ever happens again...
posted by NoDef at 11:06 AM on August 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
If it's empty it might mean her mail is being held - in which case she might just be away. In this case I would leave a note in case someone is picking up the mail and could put your mind at ease...
One note, when hopefully she returns safely make sure you introduce yourself and get the right contact information in case this ever happens again...
posted by NoDef at 11:06 AM on August 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
First step is to go over during the day, knock, shout her first name, etc, and see what happens. Checking the mailbox is a great idea as well, to see if the mail has been stopped or taken in.
If she doesn't answer, I, personally, in your same circumstances, would break in. I would do as little damage to her property as possible, trying to find a back door or unlocked window. I admittedly a) live in a small town where the explanation "I was worried about my elderly neighbor, I don't have a prior record, and I'm white and reasonable-seeming" would fly; b) personally know a neighbor who fell in the street and broke her arm in such a way that she couldn't get up, and laid in the street for several hours before she was found and c) live with my elderly grandmother and it makes me very HULK SMASH about looking after elderly people.
So, choose the whitest, most respectable-looking person in your group of neighbors and break in, is my honest advice.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:18 AM on August 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
If she doesn't answer, I, personally, in your same circumstances, would break in. I would do as little damage to her property as possible, trying to find a back door or unlocked window. I admittedly a) live in a small town where the explanation "I was worried about my elderly neighbor, I don't have a prior record, and I'm white and reasonable-seeming" would fly; b) personally know a neighbor who fell in the street and broke her arm in such a way that she couldn't get up, and laid in the street for several hours before she was found and c) live with my elderly grandmother and it makes me very HULK SMASH about looking after elderly people.
So, choose the whitest, most respectable-looking person in your group of neighbors and break in, is my honest advice.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:18 AM on August 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
Does she have a mailbox? Can you check to see if there is mail accumulating? Again a violation of personal privacy but probably ok in this case - would also give you a name and potentially other contact addresses based upon any existing letters.
Whatever you do, don't open any of her mail. I wouldn't even touch the mailbox if it were me (and like phunniemee I'm in the "Break a window and check" camp). Tampering with the U.S. mail is quite literally a federal offense. If it were me, I'd break a window and check, but otherwise I'd call the non-emergency police number and ask for another wellness check.
posted by arnicae at 11:32 AM on August 14, 2014
Whatever you do, don't open any of her mail. I wouldn't even touch the mailbox if it were me (and like phunniemee I'm in the "Break a window and check" camp). Tampering with the U.S. mail is quite literally a federal offense. If it were me, I'd break a window and check, but otherwise I'd call the non-emergency police number and ask for another wellness check.
posted by arnicae at 11:32 AM on August 14, 2014
Police may not be authorized to enter the house based simply on concerns for her safety, but I believe in some jurisdictions there's more leeway allowed in cases where there may be public health issues (e.g., something dead and rotting). Even if you haven't, could you call the police and say you've noticed a strong odor, are concerned and want a more thorough check of the house?
posted by Bardolph at 11:40 AM on August 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Bardolph at 11:40 AM on August 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
When you tried the phone book did you try the dead tree version or one that is online? If you haven't already, it might be worth checking the online version since it sometimes lists others who are associated with the name or address.
posted by oceano at 11:44 AM on August 14, 2014
posted by oceano at 11:44 AM on August 14, 2014
Call the police (non-emergency number), and tell them everything you have just told us (including that they've already checked on the house and found it dark).
posted by tckma at 11:45 AM on August 14, 2014
posted by tckma at 11:45 AM on August 14, 2014
I would bet you a lot that a window is open somewhere. I've had to climb into fiend/band mate/relative/whatever's houses SO many times when we were locked out, or they promised to meet me so I could get something of mine back but never showed up, or whatever.
I think the people saying not to do that are being silly. It's totally justified in this situation. Best case scenario she's not there. Worse case she needs help but couldn't get to the phone and the cops couldn't see her.
It seems like a no brainer to me. I'd tell a neighbor or two and just go do it.
posted by emptythought at 12:03 PM on August 14, 2014
I think the people saying not to do that are being silly. It's totally justified in this situation. Best case scenario she's not there. Worse case she needs help but couldn't get to the phone and the cops couldn't see her.
It seems like a no brainer to me. I'd tell a neighbor or two and just go do it.
posted by emptythought at 12:03 PM on August 14, 2014
IANAL or anything close to someone who knows legal things, but if the police won't go in themselves because it doesn't seem serious enough, what if you told them you thought you heard someone calling for help? Or maybe an awful smell?
FWIW I would be scared as hell for your neighbour. I very much hope she is alright. My grandmother had stroke as she was getting out of the shower, fell, knocked her head against the toilet. She didn't have her lifeline necklace on her so she wasn't able to get help. She never would have been seen from any window, and she was too weak get to a phone or to call for help. Only saving grace was that her son, my uncle, happened to stop by that evening and found her.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 12:28 PM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
FWIW I would be scared as hell for your neighbour. I very much hope she is alright. My grandmother had stroke as she was getting out of the shower, fell, knocked her head against the toilet. She didn't have her lifeline necklace on her so she wasn't able to get help. She never would have been seen from any window, and she was too weak get to a phone or to call for help. Only saving grace was that her son, my uncle, happened to stop by that evening and found her.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 12:28 PM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Call a few neighbors, break a window, have someone go inside. Make sure that you are not doing this on your own (unless you REALLY want the police to come...and arrest you).
I think you are totally justified in breaking in. This is one of those situations in which there may be a life at stake - just like if the upstairs were on fire and you were trying to get to a person downstairs. Break a window.
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:44 PM on August 14, 2014
I think you are totally justified in breaking in. This is one of those situations in which there may be a life at stake - just like if the upstairs were on fire and you were trying to get to a person downstairs. Break a window.
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:44 PM on August 14, 2014
The police should be able to track her relatives down. Call and insist.
posted by fshgrl at 1:12 PM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by fshgrl at 1:12 PM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
So from their perspective, she's away from the house and they see no reason to break in or anything like that.
It's unclear whether this is something you were explicitly told or if you are inferring. Speaking only for myself, I will say I can envision scenarios where I might break into the home of someone whose name I didn't know, but probably none of those scenarios would involve calling the police only once and then shrugging and moving on to the next action item. I would speak with someone other than the desk officer (eg, detective, sergeant, chief); and I would make sure they understood my concern, the factual basis for that concern, and the names of my neighbors who shared that concern. I would ask explicitly what they found during their first wellness check, I would indicate the facts that have transpired subsequent to that visit, and I would ask what is the next step they are going to take.
I sympathize with someone who feels inclined to break into a neighbor's home out of genuine concern for that neighbor's well-being, but my sympathy is limited by expecting that grown-ups will exercise judgment and problem-solving skills. If you are sufficiently determined to break a stranger's window, then you can direct that same determination into contacting elder services, driving to the police station, or requesting that an officer meet you at the neighbor's house. It's a genuine problem and I hope your neighbor is safe. Good luck.
posted by cribcage at 1:22 PM on August 14, 2014
It's unclear whether this is something you were explicitly told or if you are inferring. Speaking only for myself, I will say I can envision scenarios where I might break into the home of someone whose name I didn't know, but probably none of those scenarios would involve calling the police only once and then shrugging and moving on to the next action item. I would speak with someone other than the desk officer (eg, detective, sergeant, chief); and I would make sure they understood my concern, the factual basis for that concern, and the names of my neighbors who shared that concern. I would ask explicitly what they found during their first wellness check, I would indicate the facts that have transpired subsequent to that visit, and I would ask what is the next step they are going to take.
I sympathize with someone who feels inclined to break into a neighbor's home out of genuine concern for that neighbor's well-being, but my sympathy is limited by expecting that grown-ups will exercise judgment and problem-solving skills. If you are sufficiently determined to break a stranger's window, then you can direct that same determination into contacting elder services, driving to the police station, or requesting that an officer meet you at the neighbor's house. It's a genuine problem and I hope your neighbor is safe. Good luck.
posted by cribcage at 1:22 PM on August 14, 2014
Response by poster: Okay, I went home over lunch just to be thorough and I'm more convinced that she's away. I rang the door bell a couple time on both the front door and the accessory door near the garage. No answer. Her mail slot is on the garage door and I could see (and smell) into the garage and nothing seemed amiss. There is a bunch of painting equipment and other stuff that would have impeded her ability to park in her garage.
My spouse and I hopped into her backyard and looked into as many windows as we could. We could see a sliver of the kitchen and of one bedroom and nothing is alarming. Things are neatly put away and tidy. The blinds on all of her windows are drawn. We tried every window and door we could, nothing is open.
It's only her recycling bin that's left on the street. Assuming she also put her trash and compost out Sunday night (I don't know for sure), someone brought those in on Monday morning. Recycling is typically the last of the three bins to be picked up and sometimes it lags a couple hours after trash and compost.
Weird groceries are still there but given the totally random contents (Half-consumed milk jug?) I'm willing to believe it's just another oddity in my neighborhood.
I'll keep a lookout and alert the next-door neighbors who arrive back tomorrow, by which time we will have left on our own trip.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 1:35 PM on August 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
My spouse and I hopped into her backyard and looked into as many windows as we could. We could see a sliver of the kitchen and of one bedroom and nothing is alarming. Things are neatly put away and tidy. The blinds on all of her windows are drawn. We tried every window and door we could, nothing is open.
It's only her recycling bin that's left on the street. Assuming she also put her trash and compost out Sunday night (I don't know for sure), someone brought those in on Monday morning. Recycling is typically the last of the three bins to be picked up and sometimes it lags a couple hours after trash and compost.
Weird groceries are still there but given the totally random contents (Half-consumed milk jug?) I'm willing to believe it's just another oddity in my neighborhood.
I'll keep a lookout and alert the next-door neighbors who arrive back tomorrow, by which time we will have left on our own trip.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 1:35 PM on August 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
If she was a tidy person and fell in the bathroom, what would you expect to see? Mess in the kitchen?
I believe that if she was in any difficulty and was still alive, you're leaving it too late. I'd call the police again. (And I'd have broken in.)
posted by taff at 1:56 PM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
I believe that if she was in any difficulty and was still alive, you're leaving it too late. I'd call the police again. (And I'd have broken in.)
posted by taff at 1:56 PM on August 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: And I forgot to say that I'm pretty opposed to the idea of breaking in to her place. Given everything that I've been able to figure out, it seems much more likely that she's away and therefore, I have no reason to break in to her house. I will update if circumstances change.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 2:04 PM on August 14, 2014
posted by otherwordlyglow at 2:04 PM on August 14, 2014
I feel pretty strongly that breaking in to someone's home that you don't really know very well is a bad idea and I'm surprised so many people are suggesting it.
OP, I'm glad you're against it. You and your other neighbours have done what you can, including calling the police. You've gone above and beyond already like good concerned neighbours, no one can ask for more than that.
posted by Hoopo at 3:08 PM on August 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
OP, I'm glad you're against it. You and your other neighbours have done what you can, including calling the police. You've gone above and beyond already like good concerned neighbours, no one can ask for more than that.
posted by Hoopo at 3:08 PM on August 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Okay, I went home over lunch just to be thorough and I'm more convinced that she's away. I rang the door bell a couple time on both the front door and the accessory door near the garage. No answer. Her mail slot is on the garage door and I could see (and smell) into the garage and nothing seemed amiss. There is a bunch of painting equipment and other stuff that would have impeded her ability to park in her garage.
You don't have any conclusive evidence that she went away or is in the house. The house looking fine on the outside doesn't prove anything; it definitely doesn't explain the trash cans or the car. Why wouldn't she move the car to the other side of the street and avoid the ticket? Why take in the compost and not the recyclables?
She is either out in the world somewhere or in the house. In the house or not in the house. Binary state, two options only.
Option 1, she's away, could be that she or someone else had a medical emergency, her granddaughter or the ambulance picked her up, and there was no time/thought about the car or the trash cans. Maybe her granddaughter took her to a doctor's appointment on Monday, the doctor found something troubling, and she was admitted immediately. If that's the case you will probably feel silly later, but that's all. Hell, I will probably feel silly for finding this question and your updates so troubling.
Scenario 2 is that your neighbor is in her house and unable to move her car, take a bag of groceries from the steps, or answer the door to the police or to people she recognizes. The most likely causes for that are that she is ill, hurt, or dead. She may have passed away in her sleep after cleaning up the kitchen and going to bed. She may have slipped in the shower. There are a lot of ways to die in your house, almost an infinite number when you're over 85 and live alone. If that's the case, no one seems to know about it.
No one should be left to suffer or their remains left to decay while their family and friends think they are alive and well. There is "something to be done"; caring for someone's remains is literally the last thing you can ever do for them. At the very least, you would probably be sparing her granddaughter from discovering without warning her grandmother's decaying corpse.
You don't have a legal duty, obviously, but I think you have a moral one. This woman is your literal neighbor. No one looks after us if we don't look after each other. You saw that when the police came, shrugged, and left. I sense that you want to let this go and let it get sorted out later, if there is anything to sort. Please don't do that. Please get this question answered one way or the other.
It's fine if you don't personally feel you can bust into someone's home, but I don't think it's right to not do anything else. I don't agree that you have done all that you can, or that you've gone above and beyond. You can call the police and be more strenuous- if you didn't mention the heart problem, the car, the trash cans, and "highly unusual, Mary is very visible in the neighborhood and did not mention a trip or take her car," then you should do that. (I would lie about a smell or hearing noises or cries, probably, but we've established I'm more, uh, free-wheeling than you.)
At the very least, this is a very good reason to start getting to know your neighbors better, so that you can look after each other in the future and not have to be contemplating breaking into someone's home or not.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:23 PM on August 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
You don't have any conclusive evidence that she went away or is in the house. The house looking fine on the outside doesn't prove anything; it definitely doesn't explain the trash cans or the car. Why wouldn't she move the car to the other side of the street and avoid the ticket? Why take in the compost and not the recyclables?
She is either out in the world somewhere or in the house. In the house or not in the house. Binary state, two options only.
Option 1, she's away, could be that she or someone else had a medical emergency, her granddaughter or the ambulance picked her up, and there was no time/thought about the car or the trash cans. Maybe her granddaughter took her to a doctor's appointment on Monday, the doctor found something troubling, and she was admitted immediately. If that's the case you will probably feel silly later, but that's all. Hell, I will probably feel silly for finding this question and your updates so troubling.
Scenario 2 is that your neighbor is in her house and unable to move her car, take a bag of groceries from the steps, or answer the door to the police or to people she recognizes. The most likely causes for that are that she is ill, hurt, or dead. She may have passed away in her sleep after cleaning up the kitchen and going to bed. She may have slipped in the shower. There are a lot of ways to die in your house, almost an infinite number when you're over 85 and live alone. If that's the case, no one seems to know about it.
No one should be left to suffer or their remains left to decay while their family and friends think they are alive and well. There is "something to be done"; caring for someone's remains is literally the last thing you can ever do for them. At the very least, you would probably be sparing her granddaughter from discovering without warning her grandmother's decaying corpse.
You don't have a legal duty, obviously, but I think you have a moral one. This woman is your literal neighbor. No one looks after us if we don't look after each other. You saw that when the police came, shrugged, and left. I sense that you want to let this go and let it get sorted out later, if there is anything to sort. Please don't do that. Please get this question answered one way or the other.
It's fine if you don't personally feel you can bust into someone's home, but I don't think it's right to not do anything else. I don't agree that you have done all that you can, or that you've gone above and beyond. You can call the police and be more strenuous- if you didn't mention the heart problem, the car, the trash cans, and "highly unusual, Mary is very visible in the neighborhood and did not mention a trip or take her car," then you should do that. (I would lie about a smell or hearing noises or cries, probably, but we've established I'm more, uh, free-wheeling than you.)
At the very least, this is a very good reason to start getting to know your neighbors better, so that you can look after each other in the future and not have to be contemplating breaking into someone's home or not.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:23 PM on August 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Call Adult Protective Services. You can probably call the main phone number for your state and ask for Adult Protective Services.
posted by maurreen at 7:01 PM on August 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by maurreen at 7:01 PM on August 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Also, it's totally, completely, one hundred percent okay to be nervous or upset at the thought of being the one to find a deceased person's remains, and to not want to personally enter the house and do the search, regardless of your feelings about the B&E aspect. That is totally okay, reasonable, and understandable. It's an upsetting and unhappy task. You absolutely aren't required to physically go inside and check. The police are trained for this and understand it is part of the job. It is totally okay to get them to take action, or another neighbor who feels more comfortable, or whatever. I just don't think it's okay to ignore it and hope someone else resolves it.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2014
posted by Snarl Furillo at 7:13 PM on August 14, 2014
You might check and see if she has a Facebook account. It's not totally unlikely if her kids used it to share grandkid photos or something at one point and it could lead you to contact info for one of her relatives.
posted by matildatakesovertheworld at 8:28 PM on August 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by matildatakesovertheworld at 8:28 PM on August 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm going to double down on this: do not break into the home of someone you do not really know. The potential consequences are worse than "feeling silly later". Aside from B&E being a crime, this is someone in her 80s who lives on her own, and appears to have family members that care for her and come to visit regularly. It strands to reason she might value her independence and violating her home and privacy is not a great thing to do. Also the people that know her better--both in your neighbourhood and her family members that visit her--are in a better position to evaluate whether or not something is wrong here. There is no moral duty for an acquaintance to break into the home of someone.
posted by Hoopo at 1:48 PM on August 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Hoopo at 1:48 PM on August 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
OP can call the police and be more strenuous about the welfare check. That seems like a good middle ground.
Also the people that know her better--both in your neighbourhood and her family members that visit her--are in a better position to evaluate whether or not something is wrong here.
The neighbors who know her best are out of town and it's unclear how often her granddaughter is around. It's entirely possible they don't talk on the phone. Neighbors are actually in an excellent position to know if something is wrong. If this lady were 35, I would say she was on vacation and forgot to move her car before leaving. But she's 86, and living alone is dangerous for 86-year-old people. Lots of them die alone.
No one has to break into the house. I would personally not feel okay with myself if I did not at least call the police once more.
I'm going to stop posting because everyone knows how I feel about this and otherworldlyglow knows what their options are.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 2:07 PM on August 15, 2014
Also the people that know her better--both in your neighbourhood and her family members that visit her--are in a better position to evaluate whether or not something is wrong here.
The neighbors who know her best are out of town and it's unclear how often her granddaughter is around. It's entirely possible they don't talk on the phone. Neighbors are actually in an excellent position to know if something is wrong. If this lady were 35, I would say she was on vacation and forgot to move her car before leaving. But she's 86, and living alone is dangerous for 86-year-old people. Lots of them die alone.
No one has to break into the house. I would personally not feel okay with myself if I did not at least call the police once more.
I'm going to stop posting because everyone knows how I feel about this and otherworldlyglow knows what their options are.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 2:07 PM on August 15, 2014
Response by poster: Okay, calm down everyone. Next door neighbors came home and contacted the granddaughter. Our neighbor had a fall on Sunday and is okay but at a rehab facility. Thanks for your help in thinking through options. Get to know your neighbors, everyone!
posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:48 PM on August 15, 2014 [19 favorites]
posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:48 PM on August 15, 2014 [19 favorites]
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