Should I give my title to my car loan company?
October 11, 2013 9:51 AM Subscribe
The DMV sent me the title for the new car I bought through a dealer loan. Now the loan company says the DMV shouldn't have done that, and that I have to give it back. Is that true?
In June, I bought a new car with a loan from the dealership (well, the auto company, really, TD Auto Finance). Nothing fancy, nothing shady. Car's fine.
A couple of months later, I received the title in the mail from the DMV. I thought it was odd; when I paid off my previous car's loan, I received the title when I paid off the loan. But I didn't think it was a problem, I just thought it was different. I've continued to pay the loan off on time every month.
Today, I received a call from the dealer saying that the loan company called them asking for the title. The DMV told them I have it. Now they want me to go sign the title off to them.
I'm not looking to cheat anyone. I'm just wondering:
1. Do I really have to do this? Does it benefit me?
2. The woman said (non-threateningly, in response to my question) that if I don't give it back, the loan company will keep it from being registered. Is that true?
3. Any reason I should keep it?
4. What verification of this can I do? I have a random woman calling me asking for my title, it seems prudent to check on things, but I'm at a loss how to do that.
I'm inclined to just give it to them, but I thought I'd see if anyone's heard of this issue before and has advice.
In June, I bought a new car with a loan from the dealership (well, the auto company, really, TD Auto Finance). Nothing fancy, nothing shady. Car's fine.
A couple of months later, I received the title in the mail from the DMV. I thought it was odd; when I paid off my previous car's loan, I received the title when I paid off the loan. But I didn't think it was a problem, I just thought it was different. I've continued to pay the loan off on time every month.
Today, I received a call from the dealer saying that the loan company called them asking for the title. The DMV told them I have it. Now they want me to go sign the title off to them.
I'm not looking to cheat anyone. I'm just wondering:
1. Do I really have to do this? Does it benefit me?
2. The woman said (non-threateningly, in response to my question) that if I don't give it back, the loan company will keep it from being registered. Is that true?
3. Any reason I should keep it?
4. What verification of this can I do? I have a random woman calling me asking for my title, it seems prudent to check on things, but I'm at a loss how to do that.
I'm inclined to just give it to them, but I thought I'd see if anyone's heard of this issue before and has advice.
What state are you in? Minnesota sends out (or used to) a title with a notation that the car has a lien on it by the lender. When I transferred my car to Virginia and presented that title to the DMV, they reacted very suspiciously, as though they had never seen that before and it must be forged or something.
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:55 AM on October 11, 2013
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:55 AM on October 11, 2013
It depends on where you live. When I bought my first new car (living in Ontario, Canada at the time) I got a loan to pay it in full, the title was mine but a lien was registered by the lender (RBC).
Leasing a car would have been a different situation. But for a loan, the car was treated as collateral, like a house is treated as collateral when getting a mortgage.
posted by aroberge at 10:04 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Leasing a car would have been a different situation. But for a loan, the car was treated as collateral, like a house is treated as collateral when getting a mortgage.
posted by aroberge at 10:04 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: California, should have mentioned.
Yeah, I think it's odd; I currently own the car outright, according to the paperwork. I guess I'm really wondering if the lienholder has any way to force me to give this.
posted by Pacrand at 10:04 AM on October 11, 2013
Yeah, I think it's odd; I currently own the car outright, according to the paperwork. I guess I'm really wondering if the lienholder has any way to force me to give this.
posted by Pacrand at 10:04 AM on October 11, 2013
it sounds like someone messed up. your loan company should be in possession of the title. call the loan company directly with a number you have for them (not one given to you buy the woman who called you) and ask what you should do next.
posted by nadawi at 10:04 AM on October 11, 2013
posted by nadawi at 10:04 AM on October 11, 2013
Yup, someone messed up - they SHOULD hold the title until you've paid for the car. Standard car-loan protocol. The only reasons NOT to send it would be "intend to rip off the car company by selling the car" or "enjoy being needlessly-contrary". I'd call their customer service number, get an address and sent it to 'em via certified mail.
posted by julthumbscrew at 10:05 AM on October 11, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by julthumbscrew at 10:05 AM on October 11, 2013 [7 favorites]
If you don't send it back and don't pay, they will sue you and you will lose. In the meantime they will put a lien on it, and do bad things to your credit and make you sad.
posted by bensherman at 10:07 AM on October 11, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by bensherman at 10:07 AM on October 11, 2013 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: But what if I don't send it back and I DO pay?
posted by Pacrand at 10:08 AM on October 11, 2013
posted by Pacrand at 10:08 AM on October 11, 2013
I'm of the opinion that even if you get a windfall, such as this, that the right and proper thing to do is the right and proper thing to do.
The finance company holds the lein, which means the title is rightfully theirs until you pay off the car.
Be a mench, send it back to them.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:09 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
The finance company holds the lein, which means the title is rightfully theirs until you pay off the car.
Be a mench, send it back to them.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:09 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
What will happen if you DO pay but DON'T send it? They will harass you endlessly. They will call and call and CALL you. They will send letters. They will threaten. I went through similar things many a time, when I was a callow young Thumbscrew. When dealing with companies, it is NEVER a good idea to dig in your heels UNLESS you have something to gain - which you do not. The only thing you'd get would be the ability to sell the car - which you can't, legally, as it's not yours, and which would thus land you in a world of shit.
posted by julthumbscrew at 10:13 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by julthumbscrew at 10:13 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you don't send it back and you DO pay? They will probably still become your intractable enemy, and will definitely still aggressively pursue their rights. Their tactics will vary according to the language of what you've signed, the laws of the state and the DMV procedures of your state. But their goals will be, by process of law, to take the title away from you, to take as much of your money away from you as they can, to stick you with the bill for doing so, and to make the experience as unpleasant for you as possible.
posted by tyllwin at 10:21 AM on October 11, 2013
posted by tyllwin at 10:21 AM on October 11, 2013
when you bought the car, did they charge you a doc fee? over 99% likely you paid the doc fee, even though it's b.s., because you wanted the car.
you paid a doc fee and they didn't even do the docs right, costing you additional time and aggro. either you should get that doc fee back, or alternatively, charge your own identical doc fee, payable in advance, for returning the title. get the arrangement on the record, ideally in writing, not over the phone. because fair is fair and "i do volunteer work for the [animal shelter, hospice, whatever] but not for the LOAN COMPANY LOL"
if you get a nice lunch out of my comment, hoist one in my honor.
posted by bruce at 10:29 AM on October 11, 2013 [9 favorites]
you paid a doc fee and they didn't even do the docs right, costing you additional time and aggro. either you should get that doc fee back, or alternatively, charge your own identical doc fee, payable in advance, for returning the title. get the arrangement on the record, ideally in writing, not over the phone. because fair is fair and "i do volunteer work for the [animal shelter, hospice, whatever] but not for the LOAN COMPANY LOL"
if you get a nice lunch out of my comment, hoist one in my honor.
posted by bruce at 10:29 AM on October 11, 2013 [9 favorites]
I am sure the terms of the loan cover such a situation as this and you agreed that they are entitled to hold title until the loan is satisfied. You don't have any sort of leverage here. Send it to the lender.
posted by Tanizaki at 10:31 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Tanizaki at 10:31 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
What if you had just paid off the loan and they wouldn't send you the title? Wouldn't you be incredibly pissed off? Just sign it over and send it to them, like you're supposed to. Just because someone screwed up doesn't mean you should take advantage.
posted by ubiquity at 10:31 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ubiquity at 10:31 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
But what if I don't send it back and I DO pay?
Then some person at the loan company who just wants to do her job and go home to her kids or cats or prepping for her 5K this weekend has to spend more of her time on the phone with you until you get sick of her calling you, or eventually she has to tell her boss why there's this red flag on one of her files and... frankly, if you don't do it, you would just be acting like a dick to that human being.
posted by Etrigan at 10:33 AM on October 11, 2013 [7 favorites]
Then some person at the loan company who just wants to do her job and go home to her kids or cats or prepping for her 5K this weekend has to spend more of her time on the phone with you until you get sick of her calling you, or eventually she has to tell her boss why there's this red flag on one of her files and... frankly, if you don't do it, you would just be acting like a dick to that human being.
posted by Etrigan at 10:33 AM on October 11, 2013 [7 favorites]
What Tanizaki said. It is very likely your credit agreement requires to assist the lender to perfect its lien in the car -- sending them a title doc accidentally sent to you most certainly falling within that. But I'd ask the dealer to have the lender send you a letter on its letterhead requesting the title back. Just sending the title back to the dealer might actually dig you in a worse hole, since the dealer isn't necessarily entitled to it.
posted by MattD at 10:43 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by MattD at 10:43 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Yeah, I figured. I don't want to be a dick.
posted by Pacrand at 10:44 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Pacrand at 10:44 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I like the idea of getting them to make the request in writing (maybe citing whatever points in the contract that cover this) AND getting money back of any pertinent fees paid + compensation for any expenses (FedEx, certified mail, etc .)
You get this by writing a quick letter to the loan company asking for verification on the issue and requesting the paperwork fees be refunded.
NO. You don't send the title to the car back to anyone based on a phone call. Duh.
YES. You send the title back when they put the request in writing, provide secure postage with tracking, and just basically act like service professionals they are supposed to be. This includes compensating you for any services for which you paid but did not receive, and the hassle of verifying that the woman who called on the phone with the original request is legit.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 11:08 AM on October 11, 2013 [5 favorites]
You get this by writing a quick letter to the loan company asking for verification on the issue and requesting the paperwork fees be refunded.
NO. You don't send the title to the car back to anyone based on a phone call. Duh.
YES. You send the title back when they put the request in writing, provide secure postage with tracking, and just basically act like service professionals they are supposed to be. This includes compensating you for any services for which you paid but did not receive, and the hassle of verifying that the woman who called on the phone with the original request is legit.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 11:08 AM on October 11, 2013 [5 favorites]
It's a problem that the dealer is contacting you by phone on behalf of the loan company. It's unclear from your question exactly WHO you are being asked to sign the title to. Is the title to be signed to the dealership? How does the loan company insure receipt?
Like I said, you want clarification and instructions in writing, and you want a refund on any fees.
Tell them nicely (in writing) that you are continuing to pay the loan, but you need the next steps requested in writing before you can take action.
This way if there is some further complication, then you did your due diligence and have their position in writing.
I feel like there's a bunch if issues here and expecting you to turn over such a valuable document without anything in writing is unwise and definitely definitely unprofessional.
I believe with this AskMe you were looking for a professional response to their sloppy mistake and subsequent sketchy telephone request. Hope this helped!
Again, Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 11:19 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Like I said, you want clarification and instructions in writing, and you want a refund on any fees.
Tell them nicely (in writing) that you are continuing to pay the loan, but you need the next steps requested in writing before you can take action.
This way if there is some further complication, then you did your due diligence and have their position in writing.
I feel like there's a bunch if issues here and expecting you to turn over such a valuable document without anything in writing is unwise and definitely definitely unprofessional.
I believe with this AskMe you were looking for a professional response to their sloppy mistake and subsequent sketchy telephone request. Hope this helped!
Again, Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 11:19 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
I've had a very similar situation (in NC).
Bank loan (curiously a local regional bank now part of TD) and the title was sent to us. Bank eventually figured out mistake and requested documents, which I took in.
When loan was paid off I requested documents and they couldn't find them. They were embarrassed and offered to pay for replacement title. Since I was now widowed, it required extra documentation to title it in my name solely. They paid for that too, and apologized for the inconvenience.
Every once in a while, doing The Right Thing has unforeseen benefits beyond just being the right thing.
posted by mightshould at 2:22 PM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Bank loan (curiously a local regional bank now part of TD) and the title was sent to us. Bank eventually figured out mistake and requested documents, which I took in.
When loan was paid off I requested documents and they couldn't find them. They were embarrassed and offered to pay for replacement title. Since I was now widowed, it required extra documentation to title it in my name solely. They paid for that too, and apologized for the inconvenience.
Every once in a while, doing The Right Thing has unforeseen benefits beyond just being the right thing.
posted by mightshould at 2:22 PM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: In case anyone's looking for posterity, I ended up verifying that the person asking on behalf of the dealer really did work at the dealer (by calling their public number and asking for the job title, then getting the right person) and also verified with the loan company (when I first called, they'd never heard of it, but knew about the problem a month later). I ended up just sending the damn thing.
The woman at the dealership was incredibly unprofessional and handled this in a threatening manner, but I realized the only thing I could realistically do was send the title and never give them another penny of my money.
posted by Pacrand at 2:58 PM on January 13, 2014
The woman at the dealership was incredibly unprofessional and handled this in a threatening manner, but I realized the only thing I could realistically do was send the title and never give them another penny of my money.
posted by Pacrand at 2:58 PM on January 13, 2014
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posted by lemniskate at 9:54 AM on October 11, 2013 [5 favorites]