How can I pursue a masters or pHD in Canada if I'm working a 9-5 job?
September 7, 2013 1:09 PM Subscribe
It's a huge hassle for anyone who has a 9-5 job and no savings to pursue a masters or a pHD in a reputable/respectable college or university, no matter what country s/he's in. If that's my case, how can I make it work if I live in Toronto, Canada? (I'm interested in reading your thoughts and experiences even if they're not about Toronto per se).
Best answer: A lot of it depends on your chosen field of study. A good friend of mine living in Nova Scotia just completed a M.Ed. from Waterloo (they have a very good distance education program) while working full time.
Non distance-based graduate programs will generally require you to take courses that are offered only during day time. I would expect that professional field (e.g. education, business, nursing, social work) might be an exception in that regard.
I believe that most Ph.D. that are available through distance education will still require the equivalent of one year residency which would likely not work in your case.
posted by aroberge at 1:20 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Non distance-based graduate programs will generally require you to take courses that are offered only during day time. I would expect that professional field (e.g. education, business, nursing, social work) might be an exception in that regard.
I believe that most Ph.D. that are available through distance education will still require the equivalent of one year residency which would likely not work in your case.
posted by aroberge at 1:20 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I can't speak to Canada, but in the U.S.A., there are plenty of Masters programs that exist for people who work full time, and classes are scheduled at night for the convenience of full time workers. Typically one would be expected to take two classes per semester and complete the program in 3-4 years.
For a Ph.D. program, since it would be fully funded, you would be expected to quit your job and live off of the graduate student stipend which would pay your living expenses. Other arrangements would have to involve close coordination with your employer.
posted by deanc at 1:31 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
For a Ph.D. program, since it would be fully funded, you would be expected to quit your job and live off of the graduate student stipend which would pay your living expenses. Other arrangements would have to involve close coordination with your employer.
posted by deanc at 1:31 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm doing this in the USA.
My doctoral program is classroom based at a traditional university, not online. We meet for a few week-long sessions a semester and have independent study/study groups/individual meeting with professors between class sessions. Our cohort is small and nearly everyone travels to attend class sessions (including people who travel internationally to attend).
We don't have stipends or teaching loads, though many of us have been grad assistants to professors working on articles/conferences, etc. We do have full time jobs and many of us are also faculty adjuncts for universities in our hometown.
It's not easy. I have supportive husband and a supportive work environment. It's still a grind. I also turned down a lot of other stuff - a promotion, charity obligations, travel. And really, Mr. 26.2 is a rockstar. My boss, also a rockstar. I couldn't do it if either of them was less than awesome.
It can be accomplished, but you need to find a program that works with your life. You need to be ready to give up a lot and have a very clear understanding of your priorities.
posted by 26.2 at 2:02 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
My doctoral program is classroom based at a traditional university, not online. We meet for a few week-long sessions a semester and have independent study/study groups/individual meeting with professors between class sessions. Our cohort is small and nearly everyone travels to attend class sessions (including people who travel internationally to attend).
We don't have stipends or teaching loads, though many of us have been grad assistants to professors working on articles/conferences, etc. We do have full time jobs and many of us are also faculty adjuncts for universities in our hometown.
It's not easy. I have supportive husband and a supportive work environment. It's still a grind. I also turned down a lot of other stuff - a promotion, charity obligations, travel. And really, Mr. 26.2 is a rockstar. My boss, also a rockstar. I couldn't do it if either of them was less than awesome.
It can be accomplished, but you need to find a program that works with your life. You need to be ready to give up a lot and have a very clear understanding of your priorities.
posted by 26.2 at 2:02 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm getting a masters in nyc while working full time. It's difficult. I am only able to get the masters [going to school part time] because my boss is very understanding and flexible, otherwise it would be impossible. Even so, it is difficult. I am dreading the start of the new semester. You do have to give up many nights and weekends.
posted by the twistinside at 3:10 PM on September 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by the twistinside at 3:10 PM on September 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: My understanding is that in Canada you usually need the Masters to apply for a Phd programme. I live just outside toronto and pursued my Masters in the UK. I choose a bricks and mortar school that also offered distance Ed. I think online-only schools are still not as respected. It was a two year full time programme that I did while working more than full-time (plus caring for a hospitalized family member as well as three young children - one of whom was alwaysnursing on my lap while I typed. It was self-paced so I could have taken longer. I did have to go over for three residencies (each less than a week) to attend in-person lectures. My understanding is that in the UK it is called "reading a masters" because it is much more focused on independent study than most Canadian programmes. The total cost (including my flights and accommodations as well as the tuition) was less than $10,000, which is a little less than what I would have paid in Canada except my commuting and temporal costs would have been higher. I am quite happy with the education I received.
posted by saucysault at 3:15 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by saucysault at 3:15 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This really, really differs by program, OP, so it may help you to get a more targeted response if you volunteer what are your areas of interest for a PhD or masters.
I'm also not entirely certain as to how much you have looked into this so far, so forgive me if I'm too basic (I really did not know some of those pregrad school).Also apologizing in advance because this answer has an emphasis on science grad degrees, but you didn't specify an academic area, so it may be helpful, or it may not.
I'm going to add on that I'm an idiot and can't figure out: Do you need to stay in Toronto forever or can you leave for weekends/a year, etc, because that will change the answer.
Anywho, some things that I would ask if I were in your shoes:
-Does your program typically offer an Assistantship? If so, what must you do have it and how much support does it provide? As an example, similar to what deanc states above, assistantships for the basic sciences often provide your entire tuition and a living stipend, usually for the entire time until you complete your degree. In exchange, you are often expected to do research and/or teach (and hell no, there would not be time for outside jobs). Other programs (i.e. I looked into public health for a fancy pants school in the states, so I can't speak for all of them) may offer an assistantship,but it only covers partial tuition and no living stipend.A person that I knew getting a Masters in English had absolutely no support, and even if they taught the same course load, it would not support tuition plus living expenses. So that is the first question that I would ask: Is there a FULL assistance support provided for their students. I checked out Toronto Uni briefly and did find some, but you would need to look closer,I do not know tuition there nor what this provides.
-This may help with your program if you can leave Toronto for a few days;I do not think they offer much support financial support,but it would let a person work at the same time.See if your desired program offers 'non-traditional' graduated degrees. As an example, some programs in the health sciences advertise such a program and offer intensive weekend courses. Students even fly in just for class, but on weekdays they work and/or provide family support. I can point to a specific one that I know about in the health sciences if this is what you are looking for.
-What may be much easier than all of this is to find a job that offers tuition as a benefit. So in the US, jobs at universities often offer a benefit of so many free courses/yr and in my experience, they let you accommodate your schedule to attend. I've met other pple who were employed at other places and their employer provided this as a benefit and paid for their entire masters. Please not that it would likely take several yrs since you can only realistically take a few classes per year. If this is what you want, seek out employers who offer this benefit. Make sure that you see it listed in a book before hiring (i.e. sometimes pple say 'yes' to this question in an interview, and they do not provide it). If this is what you really, really want and is the best option, get a job at a place that offers this.
-Is the area that you want to get a degree in a high needs skill in your geographic area (or other part of the country). There are programs here in the states (some variety of teach for america), where they will 1) pay your tuition 2) pay a salary in exchange for you teaching at high needs school during the day. These are very challenging jobs, YMMV, but it is an option if you want a Masters in that area. I've also known pple with degrees in pharmacy and they were told that their loans would be erased if they worked for 2 years in a high need area (i.e. so perhaps see if this would exist in First Nations areas for the skill set? May or may not).
-Do you really need both the Masters and the PhD? So as an example, many of the basic science PhD programs do not require a masters, so why do the extra expense and/or time. Also, I don't mean this in a bad way, and I think people don't realize this until they are in the torture chamber but things like a PhD in the sciences are specifically to do research - you would not need it for most things (i.e. a masters degree may be adequate), so if you don't need it, don't torture yourself financially and/or timewise.
-I would also ask (not just the school, people employed with that background), what is the typical salary of people with degree X? What proportion of pple with degree X are hired? Some people that I know determined in advance and did the math and realized that the skill set would increase the salary significantly so they took on ridiculous high loans to complete the program - it was economically worth it for them, but I would do the research in advance and it also depends on your comfort level.
Good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 4:37 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm also not entirely certain as to how much you have looked into this so far, so forgive me if I'm too basic (I really did not know some of those pregrad school).Also apologizing in advance because this answer has an emphasis on science grad degrees, but you didn't specify an academic area, so it may be helpful, or it may not.
I'm going to add on that I'm an idiot and can't figure out: Do you need to stay in Toronto forever or can you leave for weekends/a year, etc, because that will change the answer.
Anywho, some things that I would ask if I were in your shoes:
-Does your program typically offer an Assistantship? If so, what must you do have it and how much support does it provide? As an example, similar to what deanc states above, assistantships for the basic sciences often provide your entire tuition and a living stipend, usually for the entire time until you complete your degree. In exchange, you are often expected to do research and/or teach (and hell no, there would not be time for outside jobs). Other programs (i.e. I looked into public health for a fancy pants school in the states, so I can't speak for all of them) may offer an assistantship,but it only covers partial tuition and no living stipend.A person that I knew getting a Masters in English had absolutely no support, and even if they taught the same course load, it would not support tuition plus living expenses. So that is the first question that I would ask: Is there a FULL assistance support provided for their students. I checked out Toronto Uni briefly and did find some, but you would need to look closer,I do not know tuition there nor what this provides.
-This may help with your program if you can leave Toronto for a few days;I do not think they offer much support financial support,but it would let a person work at the same time.See if your desired program offers 'non-traditional' graduated degrees. As an example, some programs in the health sciences advertise such a program and offer intensive weekend courses. Students even fly in just for class, but on weekdays they work and/or provide family support. I can point to a specific one that I know about in the health sciences if this is what you are looking for.
-What may be much easier than all of this is to find a job that offers tuition as a benefit. So in the US, jobs at universities often offer a benefit of so many free courses/yr and in my experience, they let you accommodate your schedule to attend. I've met other pple who were employed at other places and their employer provided this as a benefit and paid for their entire masters. Please not that it would likely take several yrs since you can only realistically take a few classes per year. If this is what you want, seek out employers who offer this benefit. Make sure that you see it listed in a book before hiring (i.e. sometimes pple say 'yes' to this question in an interview, and they do not provide it). If this is what you really, really want and is the best option, get a job at a place that offers this.
-Is the area that you want to get a degree in a high needs skill in your geographic area (or other part of the country). There are programs here in the states (some variety of teach for america), where they will 1) pay your tuition 2) pay a salary in exchange for you teaching at high needs school during the day. These are very challenging jobs, YMMV, but it is an option if you want a Masters in that area. I've also known pple with degrees in pharmacy and they were told that their loans would be erased if they worked for 2 years in a high need area (i.e. so perhaps see if this would exist in First Nations areas for the skill set? May or may not).
-Do you really need both the Masters and the PhD? So as an example, many of the basic science PhD programs do not require a masters, so why do the extra expense and/or time. Also, I don't mean this in a bad way, and I think people don't realize this until they are in the torture chamber but things like a PhD in the sciences are specifically to do research - you would not need it for most things (i.e. a masters degree may be adequate), so if you don't need it, don't torture yourself financially and/or timewise.
-I would also ask (not just the school, people employed with that background), what is the typical salary of people with degree X? What proportion of pple with degree X are hired? Some people that I know determined in advance and did the math and realized that the skill set would increase the salary significantly so they took on ridiculous high loans to complete the program - it was economically worth it for them, but I would do the research in advance and it also depends on your comfort level.
Good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 4:37 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It's really not a good idea to do a PhD if you are not offered a full scholarship (money to live on as well as tuition) - because it's the one degree that can actually lower your earning potential.
If you stay in the Canadian system, you will have to complete a Masters before you do a Phd. Ideally, you would also have some funding for a masters, but it may not be full funding. A part-time masters may be less likely to be funded.
If you are serious about doing a Phd, it's really not a part-time degree. It is a degree to train you to be a professional researcher/academic, which is itself a full-time job. Unlike a BA or masters, a PhD really isn't a general degree - like a law degree or medical school, most train you to enter a certain profession - academia or research - and are not very applicable outside those areas.
If you wish to do a general graduate degree, do a masters. If you wish to be trained as a researcher/academic, you apply for PhD programs, you find one that will give you enough money to live on (probably not your local university), and you move there and train full time.
posted by jb at 6:30 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you stay in the Canadian system, you will have to complete a Masters before you do a Phd. Ideally, you would also have some funding for a masters, but it may not be full funding. A part-time masters may be less likely to be funded.
If you are serious about doing a Phd, it's really not a part-time degree. It is a degree to train you to be a professional researcher/academic, which is itself a full-time job. Unlike a BA or masters, a PhD really isn't a general degree - like a law degree or medical school, most train you to enter a certain profession - academia or research - and are not very applicable outside those areas.
If you wish to do a general graduate degree, do a masters. If you wish to be trained as a researcher/academic, you apply for PhD programs, you find one that will give you enough money to live on (probably not your local university), and you move there and train full time.
posted by jb at 6:30 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I did my masters in public admin at Queen's U in Kingston while working full time. They have a professional version of the degree that is designed for mature students that are working. It took me 2.5 years. If you do that masters full-time, it's a year program. I was required to attend classes on weekend a month during the year, including one Friday, and for two weeks in May, both years. Lots of assignments and reading between sessions. I did it by using lieu time, vacation, and I had an incredibly supportive employer. I live west of Toronto and commuted.
Ryerson offers something similar, I believe, or they did four years ago.
If you are looking to do a more typical masters (I.e. not specifically designed for people that are working) without being around during the day, I'm not sure how you would that and be employed 9-5.
Seconding Wolfster's comment that it would be helpful to know what field you are thinking about. Lots of schools in Ontario offer professional type programs for degrees like MBAs, public admin, etc, where they cater to individuals in the workforce. Not sure you are going to see something like this for more purely "academic" programs. I.e. if I'd wanted to do a masters in chemistry to follow on my undergrad, I probably would have had to quit work and go back full time. I wasn't looking to do that, so I didn't really investigate it thoroughly though - there may be options out there.
posted by Cyrie at 10:35 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ryerson offers something similar, I believe, or they did four years ago.
If you are looking to do a more typical masters (I.e. not specifically designed for people that are working) without being around during the day, I'm not sure how you would that and be employed 9-5.
Seconding Wolfster's comment that it would be helpful to know what field you are thinking about. Lots of schools in Ontario offer professional type programs for degrees like MBAs, public admin, etc, where they cater to individuals in the workforce. Not sure you are going to see something like this for more purely "academic" programs. I.e. if I'd wanted to do a masters in chemistry to follow on my undergrad, I probably would have had to quit work and go back full time. I wasn't looking to do that, so I didn't really investigate it thoroughly though - there may be options out there.
posted by Cyrie at 10:35 PM on September 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Wonderful answers. I discovered I knew nothing about this, so all of your points are incredibly helpful. Thank you so much everybody.
posted by omar.a at 5:15 AM on September 8, 2013
posted by omar.a at 5:15 AM on September 8, 2013
How can I pursue a masters .... if I'm working a 9-5 job?
(I'm responding to this from a developing country)
This might be obvious, but you should bear in mind that you can´t expect to do this as quickly as someone whose only occupation is studying. Around here (Argentina) almost nobody completes a masters degree in less than 4 years. And it's not that they are not commited or smart enough. Everybody I know doing a masters is also working more or less full time to finance their studies. If you want to prevent burn-out, you study when your schedule allows, trying not to waste any time, avoiding unnecessary delays, but at the same time aware that your body and mind have limits. Basically, you do the best you can to get ahead given the limitations imposed by your context.
If it offers any solace, you are not alone. Most of the graduate students in the world (think of China, India, Brazil, etc) face the same problem.
posted by Basque13 at 12:25 AM on September 10, 2013
(I'm responding to this from a developing country)
This might be obvious, but you should bear in mind that you can´t expect to do this as quickly as someone whose only occupation is studying. Around here (Argentina) almost nobody completes a masters degree in less than 4 years. And it's not that they are not commited or smart enough. Everybody I know doing a masters is also working more or less full time to finance their studies. If you want to prevent burn-out, you study when your schedule allows, trying not to waste any time, avoiding unnecessary delays, but at the same time aware that your body and mind have limits. Basically, you do the best you can to get ahead given the limitations imposed by your context.
If it offers any solace, you are not alone. Most of the graduate students in the world (think of China, India, Brazil, etc) face the same problem.
posted by Basque13 at 12:25 AM on September 10, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
PhD... Nope. It is designed to be your entire life.
posted by k8t at 1:19 PM on September 7, 2013 [5 favorites]