How do I communicate what I want when I'm not even sure what that is?
August 8, 2013 4:02 PM
Dating again. I guess. Is this dating?
Sorry for the length, but I've been accused of threadsitting before so I want to try I answer all questions before they are asked. Of course I can't give every tiny detail so some parts will be summed up a bit. For the sake of anonymity lets say my name is Katie.
WARNING: this is a very "dear diary" type of post, so if thats gonna make you puke, stop reading now. Also, this may get a little graphic/NSFW.
I've been having a transitional summer. I wanted to hold off on dating again after a breakup (together 3 years) until I settled my living situation. (june and july I was staying in a place temporarily..I have my own place now) But someone kind of feel in my lap. Let's call him Dean. Dean is someone I've seen around for the past 6 years because lots of people in my circle know him, but we've never actually met until recently. We met at an event he threw (he's a community organizer and activist of sorts, but he makes money by managing a couple pro athletes) in late June. Turns out he thought I was cute, and our mutual friend Jessa gave me the lowdown: he's 39, looking for a relationship, and ready to settle down and start a family (source:her boyfriend is good friends with him). This floored me, not only because thats what I'm looking for, but also because he's gorgeous, sexy, always smiling, and I have always had respect for what he's done for our community. I was a little intimidated though, because being a leader-type he's a bit of an alpha male. He's also very fit and athletic, where I'm more used to arty, wimpy types. So, I was very excited but had a tinge of 'he's out of my league' feelings. Anyway, after the event a group of us went to a noisy bar. I sat in a booth with my friends and he made a point to sit next to me and ask me about myself. After a bit of that, I said it was crazy that we know so many of the same people yet never talked to each other (we are all bicycle commuters, which is kind of special in gas-guzzling Los Angeles). He admitted that he had seen me at a party several months ago and wanted to talk to me but I had a boyfriend. I said 'yeah, I don't have that boyfriend anymore' and then he put his arm around me and got closer and said 'well I guess the timing is finally right for us to meet'. The 2 of us grinned at each other like idiots for a very long moment. (Btw his smile slays me--big lips that curl up on the sides like quotation marks--gah!) I saw my friend's eyes get all wide from across the booth. Yup. Something was happening. Anyway, we ended the night with a hug and the ol' 'we should do something' line.
He called me a couple days later and asked if I wanted to grab a drink that evening. Heck yeah! We met up, more get-to-know-you talk for about an hour and a half which led to some making out on the empty bar patio. It was GOOD. It felt like I hadn't made out in ages since things started slowly crumbling with my ex. He threw in some mild, almost comical complements--"I like that you don't wear perfume!" & "Your skin is so soft, do you drink a lot of water?"--I mention this because I guess I'm used to more passionate, (I don't know, poetic?) complements from my suitors. Dean is just more of a guys-guy I guess. Anyway, we eventually decided it was time to part ways for the evening but I asked him if he wanted to go out again in a few days. He said absolutely.
Ok so, date #2: we got ice cream and went to a park to dog watch. Found out a little more about him, like that his mom is his only family (dad and sister both passed away from cancer, but he wasn't somber in talking about it) and some light religious and political talk (we are on the same page there). We were in my neighborhood, and I decided to ask him up if he wanted to come up and listen to records. (Yes, I realized what this suggested, and yes, I recognized that I was in the limerence stage and reminded myself that my weak-in-the-knees attraction does not mean he's 'the one'. But jeez, I really wanted to get him alone.)
So we did just that..listened to records...until we were taking each others shirts off. I stopped him at the pants though, explaining I wanted to enjoy this stage of things before going all the way. He respected that, and we proceeded to make-out half-naked with some heavy petting thrown in. At one point he cooed that he couldn't wait to eat my pussy(!), to which I replied 'next time'.
We didn't make any set plans to see each other again. I wasn't exactly worried about it, but seeing as how both our dates were of the pretty-boldly sexy variety, I was beginning to think "is this guy really looking to settle down? Heck, am I even giving the signs that I want to settle down? Do I even want to settle down???"
I couldn't put my finger on it, but it just felt like it was a casual thing. Maybe its his confidence and laid back personality, I'm not sure. I mean, I like him, he's funny, but more of in a goofy, dance-in-your-underwear-to-Steely Dan-funny (yes, that happened) not in an intellectual/witty-way that I'm more used to. And there haven't been any moments of real vulnerability that I feel are necessary to get close to a person. Basically, it doesn't feel serious. But I decided that I was just gonna roll with it..if this is just a fun rebound then so be it!
He texted a few days later on Independence Day, "Happy 4th, Katie :)" (btw, he always uses a smiley face when he txts--which suits him since he is always smiling--but is it weird for a man nearly 40 to use emoticons?). I was poolside with some girlfriends who all told me to play it cool, so I simply wrote "Happy 4th, Dean".
A few hours later he wrote again, "Hey Katie, you watching the fireworks? I'm at a building near yours". I had just gotten home and was going to get ready for bed since I had to work the next day, and before I could stop myself I wrote, "I wish you hadn't told me that..now I want you over". He wrote, "I'll be right there :)"
He was over in minutes and when I opened the door he says, "Why are your clothes still on?" You can guess the rest.
It was good, I was satisfied, and we feel asleep cuddling. The next morning felt awkward though, maybe because we both had to head to work, but there just wasn't any of that romantic lingering, you know? We also both had separate weekend plans so it we left each other with a hug and a 'see ya later' with no set plans. There were a couple of friendly txts during the week, but just small talk.
The following Saturday I was invited to a party in his neighborhood, so I txted to ask him if he wanted to come. He said he was at his mom's and couldn't make it out. I decided that would be the last time I would ask him out..balls in his court now. He txtd a couple times that week, light 'how are things?' conversation but again no date plan coming from either of us. The following weekend came and went and I didn't hear from him. I was a little disappointed, but not devastated. I was keeping busy with friends and family anyway. But I couldn't help but be curious about what happened. I asked my friend Jessa if I got played.
Jessa: "Well I see him around all the time (they live in the same hood) and I have never seen him out with a girl, so I don't think he's a player.
[her boyfriend] swears he is looking for a relationship, but maybe he just doesn't know how to get one? You know Ana dated him a few years ago, maybe you should ask her about her experience."
Coincidently, I was going to see Ana at a birthday brunch that weekend.
So, when that came..
me: "Hey Ana, I heard you dated Dean a few years back?"
Ana: "Yeah, I mean, its was just 2 or 3 dates"
me: "Ah, yeah me too. 2 or 3 dates"
Ana: "Ha. Yeah that seems to be all anyone gets out of him. What do you call it when all of your girlfriends have slept with the same guy? Whatever that is, welcome to the club, sister!"
Well that settles it. He's not relationship material, even if he thinks he is. I didn't feel like he was out of my league anymore. He's just another man-boy. Ugg.
But wait! Thats not all. Last Friday I got a txt from Dean out of the blue. "Katie, what are you doing tonight? There's a free outdoor concert in your hood. Want to go? Would be good to see you". At this point it had been nearly a month since I'd last seen him, but I thought what the hell, I should at least respond.
me: "can't. moving some things into my new apartment"
him: "do you need help? I can come help" Hmm, I could use some help. We may end up sleeping together again, but it wasn't bad and I'm really not that attached too him so I said "ok".
He did help me, then asked if he could take me out for dinner. We went out and caught up..turns out he had been working a lot and out of town for work. I didn't interrogate him about it. Honestly, we aren't boyfriend/girlfriend so he doesn't owe me constant contact, and hey, I've been busy too. So that night I decided I wanted to sleep with him again (its fun!) and not expect anything else from it. So we did. The next day wasn't as awkward as the first 'morning after', but it still felt casual/not romantic. Later he txtd "so fun hanging out with you, Katie :)"
Whatever!
Now yesterday..
Dean: "Hey Katie I'm going out of the country for a couple weeks for [work-related athletic events]. I would love to see before then. Want to join me on a group ride this Friday?"
This is where I'm questioning things. Yeah, I know the answer is COMMUNICATION. But I guess I don't even know what I want here. Even though I wasn't planning on jumping into a relationship so soon after my break-up, I do want thing real deal eventually.
For the better part of last month I had it in my mind that Dean and I were no longer 'dating', that it turned into booty-call territory. Now with him inviting me on a group outing (which is not a booty-call) is he moving me into the friendzone? Or is he putting me on the road to potential girlfriend-ville? I'm feeling all those butterflies and nerves again that I've felt in the beginning...arg!
Have there been too many red flags? Or have I overreacted and this is actually a totally healthy pace for mature relationships?
I guess I have a romantic idea that when 2 people are meant to be "you just know" right away, and are gushing over each other from day 1 all the way through the first couple years..is that stupid?
I would love to hear other's experiences with something like this.
And yes, I know I sound like a 20-something. Help me grow up!
Sorry for the length, but I've been accused of threadsitting before so I want to try I answer all questions before they are asked. Of course I can't give every tiny detail so some parts will be summed up a bit. For the sake of anonymity lets say my name is Katie.
WARNING: this is a very "dear diary" type of post, so if thats gonna make you puke, stop reading now. Also, this may get a little graphic/NSFW.
I've been having a transitional summer. I wanted to hold off on dating again after a breakup (together 3 years) until I settled my living situation. (june and july I was staying in a place temporarily..I have my own place now) But someone kind of feel in my lap. Let's call him Dean. Dean is someone I've seen around for the past 6 years because lots of people in my circle know him, but we've never actually met until recently. We met at an event he threw (he's a community organizer and activist of sorts, but he makes money by managing a couple pro athletes) in late June. Turns out he thought I was cute, and our mutual friend Jessa gave me the lowdown: he's 39, looking for a relationship, and ready to settle down and start a family (source:her boyfriend is good friends with him). This floored me, not only because thats what I'm looking for, but also because he's gorgeous, sexy, always smiling, and I have always had respect for what he's done for our community. I was a little intimidated though, because being a leader-type he's a bit of an alpha male. He's also very fit and athletic, where I'm more used to arty, wimpy types. So, I was very excited but had a tinge of 'he's out of my league' feelings. Anyway, after the event a group of us went to a noisy bar. I sat in a booth with my friends and he made a point to sit next to me and ask me about myself. After a bit of that, I said it was crazy that we know so many of the same people yet never talked to each other (we are all bicycle commuters, which is kind of special in gas-guzzling Los Angeles). He admitted that he had seen me at a party several months ago and wanted to talk to me but I had a boyfriend. I said 'yeah, I don't have that boyfriend anymore' and then he put his arm around me and got closer and said 'well I guess the timing is finally right for us to meet'. The 2 of us grinned at each other like idiots for a very long moment. (Btw his smile slays me--big lips that curl up on the sides like quotation marks--gah!) I saw my friend's eyes get all wide from across the booth. Yup. Something was happening. Anyway, we ended the night with a hug and the ol' 'we should do something' line.
He called me a couple days later and asked if I wanted to grab a drink that evening. Heck yeah! We met up, more get-to-know-you talk for about an hour and a half which led to some making out on the empty bar patio. It was GOOD. It felt like I hadn't made out in ages since things started slowly crumbling with my ex. He threw in some mild, almost comical complements--"I like that you don't wear perfume!" & "Your skin is so soft, do you drink a lot of water?"--I mention this because I guess I'm used to more passionate, (I don't know, poetic?) complements from my suitors. Dean is just more of a guys-guy I guess. Anyway, we eventually decided it was time to part ways for the evening but I asked him if he wanted to go out again in a few days. He said absolutely.
Ok so, date #2: we got ice cream and went to a park to dog watch. Found out a little more about him, like that his mom is his only family (dad and sister both passed away from cancer, but he wasn't somber in talking about it) and some light religious and political talk (we are on the same page there). We were in my neighborhood, and I decided to ask him up if he wanted to come up and listen to records. (Yes, I realized what this suggested, and yes, I recognized that I was in the limerence stage and reminded myself that my weak-in-the-knees attraction does not mean he's 'the one'. But jeez, I really wanted to get him alone.)
So we did just that..listened to records...until we were taking each others shirts off. I stopped him at the pants though, explaining I wanted to enjoy this stage of things before going all the way. He respected that, and we proceeded to make-out half-naked with some heavy petting thrown in. At one point he cooed that he couldn't wait to eat my pussy(!), to which I replied 'next time'.
We didn't make any set plans to see each other again. I wasn't exactly worried about it, but seeing as how both our dates were of the pretty-boldly sexy variety, I was beginning to think "is this guy really looking to settle down? Heck, am I even giving the signs that I want to settle down? Do I even want to settle down???"
I couldn't put my finger on it, but it just felt like it was a casual thing. Maybe its his confidence and laid back personality, I'm not sure. I mean, I like him, he's funny, but more of in a goofy, dance-in-your-underwear-to-Steely Dan-funny (yes, that happened) not in an intellectual/witty-way that I'm more used to. And there haven't been any moments of real vulnerability that I feel are necessary to get close to a person. Basically, it doesn't feel serious. But I decided that I was just gonna roll with it..if this is just a fun rebound then so be it!
He texted a few days later on Independence Day, "Happy 4th, Katie :)" (btw, he always uses a smiley face when he txts--which suits him since he is always smiling--but is it weird for a man nearly 40 to use emoticons?). I was poolside with some girlfriends who all told me to play it cool, so I simply wrote "Happy 4th, Dean".
A few hours later he wrote again, "Hey Katie, you watching the fireworks? I'm at a building near yours". I had just gotten home and was going to get ready for bed since I had to work the next day, and before I could stop myself I wrote, "I wish you hadn't told me that..now I want you over". He wrote, "I'll be right there :)"
He was over in minutes and when I opened the door he says, "Why are your clothes still on?" You can guess the rest.
It was good, I was satisfied, and we feel asleep cuddling. The next morning felt awkward though, maybe because we both had to head to work, but there just wasn't any of that romantic lingering, you know? We also both had separate weekend plans so it we left each other with a hug and a 'see ya later' with no set plans. There were a couple of friendly txts during the week, but just small talk.
The following Saturday I was invited to a party in his neighborhood, so I txted to ask him if he wanted to come. He said he was at his mom's and couldn't make it out. I decided that would be the last time I would ask him out..balls in his court now. He txtd a couple times that week, light 'how are things?' conversation but again no date plan coming from either of us. The following weekend came and went and I didn't hear from him. I was a little disappointed, but not devastated. I was keeping busy with friends and family anyway. But I couldn't help but be curious about what happened. I asked my friend Jessa if I got played.
Jessa: "Well I see him around all the time (they live in the same hood) and I have never seen him out with a girl, so I don't think he's a player.
[her boyfriend] swears he is looking for a relationship, but maybe he just doesn't know how to get one? You know Ana dated him a few years ago, maybe you should ask her about her experience."
Coincidently, I was going to see Ana at a birthday brunch that weekend.
So, when that came..
me: "Hey Ana, I heard you dated Dean a few years back?"
Ana: "Yeah, I mean, its was just 2 or 3 dates"
me: "Ah, yeah me too. 2 or 3 dates"
Ana: "Ha. Yeah that seems to be all anyone gets out of him. What do you call it when all of your girlfriends have slept with the same guy? Whatever that is, welcome to the club, sister!"
Well that settles it. He's not relationship material, even if he thinks he is. I didn't feel like he was out of my league anymore. He's just another man-boy. Ugg.
But wait! Thats not all. Last Friday I got a txt from Dean out of the blue. "Katie, what are you doing tonight? There's a free outdoor concert in your hood. Want to go? Would be good to see you". At this point it had been nearly a month since I'd last seen him, but I thought what the hell, I should at least respond.
me: "can't. moving some things into my new apartment"
him: "do you need help? I can come help" Hmm, I could use some help. We may end up sleeping together again, but it wasn't bad and I'm really not that attached too him so I said "ok".
He did help me, then asked if he could take me out for dinner. We went out and caught up..turns out he had been working a lot and out of town for work. I didn't interrogate him about it. Honestly, we aren't boyfriend/girlfriend so he doesn't owe me constant contact, and hey, I've been busy too. So that night I decided I wanted to sleep with him again (its fun!) and not expect anything else from it. So we did. The next day wasn't as awkward as the first 'morning after', but it still felt casual/not romantic. Later he txtd "so fun hanging out with you, Katie :)"
Whatever!
Now yesterday..
Dean: "Hey Katie I'm going out of the country for a couple weeks for [work-related athletic events]. I would love to see before then. Want to join me on a group ride this Friday?"
This is where I'm questioning things. Yeah, I know the answer is COMMUNICATION. But I guess I don't even know what I want here. Even though I wasn't planning on jumping into a relationship so soon after my break-up, I do want thing real deal eventually.
For the better part of last month I had it in my mind that Dean and I were no longer 'dating', that it turned into booty-call territory. Now with him inviting me on a group outing (which is not a booty-call) is he moving me into the friendzone? Or is he putting me on the road to potential girlfriend-ville? I'm feeling all those butterflies and nerves again that I've felt in the beginning...arg!
Have there been too many red flags? Or have I overreacted and this is actually a totally healthy pace for mature relationships?
I guess I have a romantic idea that when 2 people are meant to be "you just know" right away, and are gushing over each other from day 1 all the way through the first couple years..is that stupid?
I would love to hear other's experiences with something like this.
And yes, I know I sound like a 20-something. Help me grow up!
Yeah, you guys are FWB without having discussed it specifically beforehand. He may well think you're totally cool with it. (And it's okay if you are!)
This all sounds like it's not ever going anywhere serious. But there's nothing wrong with a summer fling, as long as you don't talk yourself into believing this is going to turn into True Love.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 4:26 PM on August 8, 2013
This all sounds like it's not ever going anywhere serious. But there's nothing wrong with a summer fling, as long as you don't talk yourself into believing this is going to turn into True Love.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 4:26 PM on August 8, 2013
You know, really a whole lot of people have "just known" at the very beginning of their relationship and they'll tell you proudly years later that they knew the moment they met him/her that this was their future spouse. What they don't mention is that they thought this every time they met someone new, so one day the odds were bound to catch up with them and they would be proved right in their prediction. That doesn't mean it's right or wrong to gush starting at day 1, and in fact, in my opinion, it helps a lot to have that gushy time because when you run into the inevitable bumps in the road, it's good to have those great feelings to think back on.
But emotions are really unreliable advisers. Now me, I'm generally just really relaxed about the progression of things. And frankly, that has worked out really well for me. I know that it's easy to get really OCD about what is this where are we going what does it mean if you do/don't call me what do you think I meant by having sex with you blah blah blah. (I've said here before that I don't have any issues about sex. My friends are all, "I won't have sex with someone until I get to know them" and I'm like, "How do I know you if I haven't had sex with you?")
For me, the answer is to notice that my mind is going out of control and see that as amusing. It teaches me about the nature of my mind. In fact, when I feel most stressed or like I need an answer immediately, it's a really good sign that I'm overthinking something or overinvested in a particular outcome, and for my mental health and the enjoyment of those around me, I need to just take a deep breath and step back a few paces. Not from the guy -- from my somewhat obsessive thinking.
He may not know what he wants. That's fair. You don't know what you want, except you know you enjoy having sex with him. Right on! Go for it! Take appropriate precautions, of course, but have fun! I don't see that there have been any red flags yet.
For comparison purposes, I picked my boyfriend up at a bar and took him home with me the night we met (i.e., some people say "no sex on the first date" and I say "why wait for a first date?" LOL). We've been together ever since, five years now, but he effectively stood me up on the first date we planned, which told me a few things, most importantly that he gets really caught up in work and will forget to call, so I now make sure to remind him periodically of plans that we've made so that he doesn't make other plans on top (which he will). Also, he didn't say "I love you" for four years. I said it a time or two before then, first time was over two years in, but when he did not respond in kind, I would shelve it for months and months. But it was fine with me because he certainly treated me like he loved me.
So I guess the tl;dr version here is: cultivate "don't know" mind. Let happen what happens without overanalyzing, and if something feels really uncomfortable say "this feels uncomfortable, I need to back away now", but if it's just you trying to predict the future, notice what you're doing, realize that no one can predict the future, and watch it unfold as it will.
posted by janey47 at 4:39 PM on August 8, 2013
But emotions are really unreliable advisers. Now me, I'm generally just really relaxed about the progression of things. And frankly, that has worked out really well for me. I know that it's easy to get really OCD about what is this where are we going what does it mean if you do/don't call me what do you think I meant by having sex with you blah blah blah. (I've said here before that I don't have any issues about sex. My friends are all, "I won't have sex with someone until I get to know them" and I'm like, "How do I know you if I haven't had sex with you?")
For me, the answer is to notice that my mind is going out of control and see that as amusing. It teaches me about the nature of my mind. In fact, when I feel most stressed or like I need an answer immediately, it's a really good sign that I'm overthinking something or overinvested in a particular outcome, and for my mental health and the enjoyment of those around me, I need to just take a deep breath and step back a few paces. Not from the guy -- from my somewhat obsessive thinking.
He may not know what he wants. That's fair. You don't know what you want, except you know you enjoy having sex with him. Right on! Go for it! Take appropriate precautions, of course, but have fun! I don't see that there have been any red flags yet.
For comparison purposes, I picked my boyfriend up at a bar and took him home with me the night we met (i.e., some people say "no sex on the first date" and I say "why wait for a first date?" LOL). We've been together ever since, five years now, but he effectively stood me up on the first date we planned, which told me a few things, most importantly that he gets really caught up in work and will forget to call, so I now make sure to remind him periodically of plans that we've made so that he doesn't make other plans on top (which he will). Also, he didn't say "I love you" for four years. I said it a time or two before then, first time was over two years in, but when he did not respond in kind, I would shelve it for months and months. But it was fine with me because he certainly treated me like he loved me.
So I guess the tl;dr version here is: cultivate "don't know" mind. Let happen what happens without overanalyzing, and if something feels really uncomfortable say "this feels uncomfortable, I need to back away now", but if it's just you trying to predict the future, notice what you're doing, realize that no one can predict the future, and watch it unfold as it will.
posted by janey47 at 4:39 PM on August 8, 2013
You guys sound like you are having some good old adult fun. It seems like there are a lot of things you like about him, but you don't strike me as being bonkers about him either. OP, are you good with this situation? If so, enjoy this and see where it goes. If not, ask him what his intentions are. Stop wondering and find out what's on the go.
posted by futureisunwritten at 4:42 PM on August 8, 2013
posted by futureisunwritten at 4:42 PM on August 8, 2013
He likes you. He finds you attractive You find him attractive. This may be going somewhere, and it may not. If it intensifies over the next few months, you'll be headed for a relationship. If there's a group ride and then nothing for another month, I'd say this is never going to be much more than FWB.
I think the real question is what you want. And then you can call it. For example, if you'd rather not get intimate again unless you feel like you're moving toward a more committed relationship, that's fine. And you can tell him that. Or if you feel you'd like to slow this down a whole lot and be friends without benefits for awhile, you can do that, and tell him that. And of course it's fine to keep doing this because you're having fun regardless of what's going to develop here.
posted by bearwife at 4:43 PM on August 8, 2013
I think the real question is what you want. And then you can call it. For example, if you'd rather not get intimate again unless you feel like you're moving toward a more committed relationship, that's fine. And you can tell him that. Or if you feel you'd like to slow this down a whole lot and be friends without benefits for awhile, you can do that, and tell him that. And of course it's fine to keep doing this because you're having fun regardless of what's going to develop here.
posted by bearwife at 4:43 PM on August 8, 2013
I think you're holding back on wanting more because you don't think he's capable of giving any more, and based on everything you've told, it sounds like you're right. The only signs that point to him "wanting to settle down" are things you're hearing from his friends, and for all you know, that's what THEY want, not what he wants. I don't know what more there is you can do, other than decide whether or not you're cool hanging out/sleeping together randomly.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:54 PM on August 8, 2013
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:54 PM on August 8, 2013
He threw in some mild, almost comical complements--"I like that you don't wear perfume!" & "Your skin is so soft, do you drink a lot of water?"--I mention this because I guess I'm used to more passionate, (I don't know, poetic?) complements from my suitors. Dean is just more of a guys-guy I guess.
This is funny because I briefly dated a booty call man a while back who paid me weird compliments like that whilst making out, along with acting in all the other ways your guy did. He also did the thing where he says up front that he's looking for a long term relationship (and what do you know, so was I! What a coincidence). I feel like the guys who act like this must've read those techniques somewhere. And I was also not so long past a breakup and had no idea how to date.
have I overreacted and this is actually a totally healthy pace for mature relationships?
Nope, you're not overreacting. I also experienced this same feeling during the time when I dated the similar guy - I felt like maybe I'd been out of the loop, that maybe this was how adults dated, and maybe I needed to get with the program and up my game or something stupid like that. No, it's not you, it's him. It sounds like this is just what he does.
I guess I have a romantic idea that when 2 people are meant to be "you just know" right away, and are gushing over each other from day 1 all the way through the first couple years..is that stupid?
There's no such thing as "meant to be." You never know. You could think for a while you're "meant to be" with someone and then decide years later that the whole thing was a terrible mistake. You can feel really awesome with someone for a couple months before the whole thing crashes and burns. I don't mean to sound pessimistic - I'm not, really - but emotions are crazy things. I think the best thing to do is listen to the little voices that keep telling you something's not quite right here, and that this guy is more of a lady charmer than a potential boyfriend who is interested in actual intimacy rather than just sleeping with you.
posted by wondermouse at 4:57 PM on August 8, 2013
This is funny because I briefly dated a booty call man a while back who paid me weird compliments like that whilst making out, along with acting in all the other ways your guy did. He also did the thing where he says up front that he's looking for a long term relationship (and what do you know, so was I! What a coincidence). I feel like the guys who act like this must've read those techniques somewhere. And I was also not so long past a breakup and had no idea how to date.
have I overreacted and this is actually a totally healthy pace for mature relationships?
Nope, you're not overreacting. I also experienced this same feeling during the time when I dated the similar guy - I felt like maybe I'd been out of the loop, that maybe this was how adults dated, and maybe I needed to get with the program and up my game or something stupid like that. No, it's not you, it's him. It sounds like this is just what he does.
I guess I have a romantic idea that when 2 people are meant to be "you just know" right away, and are gushing over each other from day 1 all the way through the first couple years..is that stupid?
There's no such thing as "meant to be." You never know. You could think for a while you're "meant to be" with someone and then decide years later that the whole thing was a terrible mistake. You can feel really awesome with someone for a couple months before the whole thing crashes and burns. I don't mean to sound pessimistic - I'm not, really - but emotions are crazy things. I think the best thing to do is listen to the little voices that keep telling you something's not quite right here, and that this guy is more of a lady charmer than a potential boyfriend who is interested in actual intimacy rather than just sleeping with you.
posted by wondermouse at 4:57 PM on August 8, 2013
It's not stupid to think that you just "know". There are people who always feel that, as janey47 states. Are you one of those people? I am not, so when I felt that it was quite startling and different.
I would spend some time thinking about what YOU want rather than trying to figure out what HE wants. Do you want a friends-with-benefits situation? Do you want an exclusive relationship? A serious relationship? It's ok not to know, of course, but exploring these questions will make you question this "relationship" less. It is much easier to act when you know what you want, or even just what you don't want, or what you might want. His actions are almost irrelevant to that.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:01 PM on August 8, 2013
I would spend some time thinking about what YOU want rather than trying to figure out what HE wants. Do you want a friends-with-benefits situation? Do you want an exclusive relationship? A serious relationship? It's ok not to know, of course, but exploring these questions will make you question this "relationship" less. It is much easier to act when you know what you want, or even just what you don't want, or what you might want. His actions are almost irrelevant to that.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:01 PM on August 8, 2013
And yes, I know I sound like a 20-something. Help me grow up!
Here's a grownup thing to do:
"Dean, I've been having a lot of fun with you, but it seems like you want a really casual thing, while I'm looking for someone to date more seriously. I'd like that someone to be you. Would you be interested in giving it a try?"
posted by xingcat at 5:16 PM on August 8, 2013
Here's a grownup thing to do:
"Dean, I've been having a lot of fun with you, but it seems like you want a really casual thing, while I'm looking for someone to date more seriously. I'd like that someone to be you. Would you be interested in giving it a try?"
posted by xingcat at 5:16 PM on August 8, 2013
You don't have to have just one overriding thing you want, you can want one thing from him and a different thing from some yet-to-be-met person.
There is nothing going on here that will prevent you from having some other sort of relationship with a different person in the future. This is not some sort of decision that will be the be-all end-all of whether you want to be in a relationship or settle down and start a family.
It sounds like you are just happy to roll with things and see what happens, but have decided somehow that there is some problem with that, and you asked this to help you decide what you want... if you want to "grow up", the answer is to go out and live your life, not let others tell you what you should want. Hell, you don't even have to grow up if you don't want to.
I can tell you one thing... it's exceedingly unlikely you are being moved into "the friendzone".
posted by yohko at 5:19 PM on August 8, 2013
There is nothing going on here that will prevent you from having some other sort of relationship with a different person in the future. This is not some sort of decision that will be the be-all end-all of whether you want to be in a relationship or settle down and start a family.
It sounds like you are just happy to roll with things and see what happens, but have decided somehow that there is some problem with that, and you asked this to help you decide what you want... if you want to "grow up", the answer is to go out and live your life, not let others tell you what you should want. Hell, you don't even have to grow up if you don't want to.
I can tell you one thing... it's exceedingly unlikely you are being moved into "the friendzone".
posted by yohko at 5:19 PM on August 8, 2013
Talk to him about it. If you can't discuss the status of your relationship, you can't settle down and have kids. If he actually wants that, he's not going to be put off by you mentioning it. If he doesn't want that, who cares if he's put off?
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 5:32 PM on August 8, 2013
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 5:32 PM on August 8, 2013
You don't need to know right now. Part of you wants to settle things now. Acknowledge those feelings when they appear, then let them go. The fact you have feelings like you "should know" what you want doesn't mean that is a true fact.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:38 PM on August 8, 2013
posted by Ironmouth at 5:38 PM on August 8, 2013
I would just like to state that there's a big difference between going with the flow and actively waving off your internal alarm bells about what's happening.
posted by wondermouse at 6:05 PM on August 8, 2013
posted by wondermouse at 6:05 PM on August 8, 2013
I don't know if this is worth mentioning since I don't know if Dean is one of them (for your sake I hope he's not), but there is a certain subspecies of guy who is sincerely looking for a relationship, but who does not believe that a serious relationship should start with sex too early. So, he starts out by pursuing hard, and very romantically, but if the sex comes too "easily," he decides the budding romance can't be the real thing, gets cold feet and backs out. He's not a "player" exactly, because he believes what he's saying about looking for something real, and when he says he's really into you (before you sleep together) he means it...which is why the eventual post-sex fadeaway is 10x more painful. He might even stick around for casual sex for a while, but because of his latent Madonna/whore thing, it'll be hard if not impossible to force yourself back into the relationship category.
My theory about guys like this is that they actually aren't ready for sex themselves, but don't feel empowered to actually say 'no' or ask to take it slow. Instead they have sex earlier than they're comfortable with, feel ambivalent and bad about it, and take it out on you. It's all tied up with complicated feelings about gender roles and what men and women "should" do in a relationship.
if you want to try and salvage something, I would take him out to dinner and tell him you really enjoyed hanging out with him, but that you think things moved too quickly and that you'd like to back off the sex and get to know each other a little bit. Then, you actually have to impose the no-sex rule, because he sure as heck isn't going to...even though it will probably make him more comfortable, and therefore way less likely to freak on you and bail.
But honestly, just typing that out made me kind of depressed. My best advice is to move on and find some awesome free spirit who will have sex with you on the first date and not have any hang-ups about it at all. Those guys exist, and they are mostly better at communication, and in bed.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:01 PM on August 8, 2013
My theory about guys like this is that they actually aren't ready for sex themselves, but don't feel empowered to actually say 'no' or ask to take it slow. Instead they have sex earlier than they're comfortable with, feel ambivalent and bad about it, and take it out on you. It's all tied up with complicated feelings about gender roles and what men and women "should" do in a relationship.
if you want to try and salvage something, I would take him out to dinner and tell him you really enjoyed hanging out with him, but that you think things moved too quickly and that you'd like to back off the sex and get to know each other a little bit. Then, you actually have to impose the no-sex rule, because he sure as heck isn't going to...even though it will probably make him more comfortable, and therefore way less likely to freak on you and bail.
But honestly, just typing that out made me kind of depressed. My best advice is to move on and find some awesome free spirit who will have sex with you on the first date and not have any hang-ups about it at all. Those guys exist, and they are mostly better at communication, and in bed.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:01 PM on August 8, 2013
You're receiving responses which attempt to define both your interaction with Dean and its potential, but the reality is, these are merely anecdotal, and, as such, can't and won't accurately define it all for you. For example, my personal experiences counter those of others - I was involved in a, "relationship" in which the parameters were clearly defined within hours - exclusive, and with a view to a long-term future - it lasted two weeks. Another, the parameters were fuzzy - exclusive FWB's with an agreed upon but undisclosed expiry date? "Other"? We still have no idea what label we should have attributed to what we were engaged in, but it evolved organically into a conventional committed relationship. My point is, emotions and relationships are messy and complicated at times, and as much as we'd all like obvious parameters and predictable outcomes, it's a crapshoot.
posted by Nibiru at 7:36 PM on August 8, 2013
posted by Nibiru at 7:36 PM on August 8, 2013
Anything anyone here tells you is just speculation. The only way to know his intentions is just to ask him if he's interested in having an exclusive relationship and all that entails.
posted by Dansaman at 7:58 PM on August 8, 2013
posted by Dansaman at 7:58 PM on August 8, 2013
You sound a bit... um, I hate to use this word, but hysterical. Like, breathless and wrapped up and examining his every move for hidden meaning and OMG and what did it mean when he touched his eyebrow...!? I'm not hating on you. I've been there myself.
I suggest that the first thing you do is just calm down. He'll either be The One (whatever that means) or not. The relationship will go where it goes. No amount of analyzing or our opinions will make any difference. Only time will tell. (I know it sucks, having to wait, but there's really no other way to know.)
So, I would suggest that you just take a step back from all of this and involve yourself in something completely absorbing for a few days (go camping or watch a marathon of a new show or work on an art project or something) and then just see where this goes from a better mental place.
There's no way to know his intentions without asking him; asking him may not work because many people aren't good at identifying or communicating feelings. He may want what you want when you decide you want it. He may not. It may change. The very act of asking him what he wants and telling him what you want may influence it.
Basically the only way to know is to see what happens. So... distract yourself with something positive, communicate clearly with him, and see where it goes.
posted by 3491again at 8:25 PM on August 8, 2013
I suggest that the first thing you do is just calm down. He'll either be The One (whatever that means) or not. The relationship will go where it goes. No amount of analyzing or our opinions will make any difference. Only time will tell. (I know it sucks, having to wait, but there's really no other way to know.)
So, I would suggest that you just take a step back from all of this and involve yourself in something completely absorbing for a few days (go camping or watch a marathon of a new show or work on an art project or something) and then just see where this goes from a better mental place.
There's no way to know his intentions without asking him; asking him may not work because many people aren't good at identifying or communicating feelings. He may want what you want when you decide you want it. He may not. It may change. The very act of asking him what he wants and telling him what you want may influence it.
Basically the only way to know is to see what happens. So... distract yourself with something positive, communicate clearly with him, and see where it goes.
posted by 3491again at 8:25 PM on August 8, 2013
There's no way to know his intentions without asking him; asking him may not work because many people aren't good at identifying or communicating feelings. He may want what you want when you decide you want it. He may not. It may change. The very act of asking him what he wants and telling him what you want may influence it.
Yeah, all of this.
There's no reliable way for any of us to tell you what he wants, either. My only advice is: trust your instincts, and communicate what you want to him, as you go along.
Any time I failed to do either of these two things, it got me in trouble.
posted by Salamander at 9:54 PM on August 8, 2013
Yeah, all of this.
There's no reliable way for any of us to tell you what he wants, either. My only advice is: trust your instincts, and communicate what you want to him, as you go along.
Any time I failed to do either of these two things, it got me in trouble.
posted by Salamander at 9:54 PM on August 8, 2013
You're having sex with a friend - so, do you want to keep doing this, or not?
If you want to be in a relationship with him beyond this, you're going to have to say something. Otherwise, enjoy the ride...?
posted by heyjude at 12:25 AM on August 9, 2013
If you want to be in a relationship with him beyond this, you're going to have to say something. Otherwise, enjoy the ride...?
posted by heyjude at 12:25 AM on August 9, 2013
This is why I'd date a divorced so-so looking 40yo over a single good looking 39yo any day.
If a guy in his 40s is good looking, successful and wants to get married but isn't married yet and has never been married, he's not going to get married. Why? Because if he really did want to, he'd be married already! I've seen it happen too many times. I happened to me! (I was 28 and he was a 40yo investment banker... SUCH a cliche!) And when they finally do settle down, it is with a young, pretty, confident woman who doesn't put too many emotional demands on him. Such is life.
He sounds like he's good at keeping his distance, so let him distance himself right out of your life. If a relationship is going to build, it builds in obvious, predictable ways. And if he shows up after 1 month of silence, he's all "oh my god I'm so sorry, that was rude, can I make it up to you" not "hey whats up."
You want to get married but this guy ain't it.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:32 AM on August 9, 2013
If a guy in his 40s is good looking, successful and wants to get married but isn't married yet and has never been married, he's not going to get married. Why? Because if he really did want to, he'd be married already! I've seen it happen too many times. I happened to me! (I was 28 and he was a 40yo investment banker... SUCH a cliche!) And when they finally do settle down, it is with a young, pretty, confident woman who doesn't put too many emotional demands on him. Such is life.
He sounds like he's good at keeping his distance, so let him distance himself right out of your life. If a relationship is going to build, it builds in obvious, predictable ways. And if he shows up after 1 month of silence, he's all "oh my god I'm so sorry, that was rude, can I make it up to you" not "hey whats up."
You want to get married but this guy ain't it.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:32 AM on August 9, 2013
Thanks for the responses, they are all favorites!
But Pinksuperhero and yohko helped me understand my own feelings towards this best, so thanks!
I don't want to be exclusive with Dean. I want to be available for the guy out there who wants to love and cherish me and that I'm attracted to.
Dean is attractive and fun (and fun is fun!) but I need more in a relationship and I'm not sure if I'll ever get that from him. I'm certainly not going to anytime soon, since he'll be out of the country for a few weeks anyway. So if we're FWB tonight I'm fine with that. If I hear from him again in a month I might be fine with that too, but I'm not going to pine for him in the mean time.
"No, he's keeping you in the friends-with-benefits-zone that you've been in this whole time."
Honestly before last Friday I was totally in the 'well that was nice but now its done' mindset. I was just thrown off recently by him a) helping me move and b) inviting me to a group thing, because I thought, 'wait a minute, thats what boyfriends do!' But now reading these responses I realize thats 'oh yeah, thats what friends do too'. I hadn't really thought about it that way because last time I was in a FWB situation it was with a 'young, dumb, full of cum' kid that I (hypothetically) wouldn't help move if he needed it because I didn't really care about him, and wouldn't dare bring around my friends because I was embarrassed of him (sorry if that sounds mean, but its true). But I suppose there is a whole FWB spectrum and Dean falls in the we-actually-ARE-friends category.
posted by hellameangirl at 11:55 AM on August 9, 2013
But Pinksuperhero and yohko helped me understand my own feelings towards this best, so thanks!
I don't want to be exclusive with Dean. I want to be available for the guy out there who wants to love and cherish me and that I'm attracted to.
Dean is attractive and fun (and fun is fun!) but I need more in a relationship and I'm not sure if I'll ever get that from him. I'm certainly not going to anytime soon, since he'll be out of the country for a few weeks anyway. So if we're FWB tonight I'm fine with that. If I hear from him again in a month I might be fine with that too, but I'm not going to pine for him in the mean time.
"No, he's keeping you in the friends-with-benefits-zone that you've been in this whole time."
Honestly before last Friday I was totally in the 'well that was nice but now its done' mindset. I was just thrown off recently by him a) helping me move and b) inviting me to a group thing, because I thought, 'wait a minute, thats what boyfriends do!' But now reading these responses I realize thats 'oh yeah, thats what friends do too'. I hadn't really thought about it that way because last time I was in a FWB situation it was with a 'young, dumb, full of cum' kid that I (hypothetically) wouldn't help move if he needed it because I didn't really care about him, and wouldn't dare bring around my friends because I was embarrassed of him (sorry if that sounds mean, but its true). But I suppose there is a whole FWB spectrum and Dean falls in the we-actually-ARE-friends category.
posted by hellameangirl at 11:55 AM on August 9, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
No, he's keeping you in the friends-with-benefits-zone that you've been in this whole time. If that works for you, then keep it up, but if he wanted an actual relationship, you'd know it. Also, if he wanted an actual relationship, you wouldn't have gone a month without seeing him.
This was a booty call. The group outing is a booty call, because he figured out when exactly he could fit you into his schedule and the group ride was what he came up with. Chances are pretty good he'll want to have sex afterward. If you're okay with that, then go for it, but if you want more, you may want to look elsewhere. Like I say, if he wanted more, there'd be more. There isn't.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 4:16 PM on August 8, 2013