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August 1, 2013 10:49 AM Subscribe
Probably too late to major in Computer Science. Plan B?
I'm a religion major at the College of William & Mary. This comment inspired me to focus more on computer programming, which I've been doing on my own for about seven months now and still enjoy it. I was supposed to graduate this fall, but now I've decided to take an extra semester and minor in CS. However, now that I've been looking at job ops more closely, it seems like the ones that don't require a BS/MS are all in, like, front-end web development. That is a fine vocation but I don't want to be limited to that. It seems like better jobs all require a BS/MS in computer science.
I think I'm having a quarter-life crisis because the whole "you can be whatever you want to be" is being replaced by the realization that 1.) I am to blame for wasting the opportunity to go to W&M for free and get an actual useful degree, and 2.) No matter how ingrained it is that you can come from a poor high-school-educated family, living in a small town where all your friends got jobs in fast food, and work your way out of it, in reality that just doesn't happen very often.
Well anyway, enough of that. A minor is OK, but I think it's too late to major in CS. The major is 40 credits I think, and I only have 2 semesters to do it. Three, if I really want to hate myself. I was considering graduate school, but last semester I got a 1.75 GPA (bad semester...but would any excuse be good enough for the secretary filtering out your application? nope.), and so now I only have a 2.65 cum GPA, and now getting a 3.0 (grad school minimum) will be pretty tough...especially if I am now going to cram five CS courses into my last semester.
Then I thought about doing a postbac. I haven't really researched the entry requirements for this, but since all the jobs I've seen require a "BS or MS in Computer Science, Engineering, or equivalent field," maybe if I did a postbac it would count as an "equivalent field."
Oh, and my school is no help for career advice. Yes, I'm shouting it from the rooftops, William & Mary's career advice is consistent: "Get a LinkedIn profile." (It's an open secret here, I think.)
So I guess I was just hoping for some advice. Would a postbac be a good idea? I seriously doubt I am a very competitive applicant for grad school at this point. And to be honest, I am not entirely interested in staying in academia; this is strictly for better job opportunities. If I went to graduate school, it would likely be in media or graphics, which is what I would really like to do. (I know that requires advanced math and advanced techniques, and that is what's worrying me.. )
I'm a religion major at the College of William & Mary. This comment inspired me to focus more on computer programming, which I've been doing on my own for about seven months now and still enjoy it. I was supposed to graduate this fall, but now I've decided to take an extra semester and minor in CS. However, now that I've been looking at job ops more closely, it seems like the ones that don't require a BS/MS are all in, like, front-end web development. That is a fine vocation but I don't want to be limited to that. It seems like better jobs all require a BS/MS in computer science.
I think I'm having a quarter-life crisis because the whole "you can be whatever you want to be" is being replaced by the realization that 1.) I am to blame for wasting the opportunity to go to W&M for free and get an actual useful degree, and 2.) No matter how ingrained it is that you can come from a poor high-school-educated family, living in a small town where all your friends got jobs in fast food, and work your way out of it, in reality that just doesn't happen very often.
Well anyway, enough of that. A minor is OK, but I think it's too late to major in CS. The major is 40 credits I think, and I only have 2 semesters to do it. Three, if I really want to hate myself. I was considering graduate school, but last semester I got a 1.75 GPA (bad semester...but would any excuse be good enough for the secretary filtering out your application? nope.), and so now I only have a 2.65 cum GPA, and now getting a 3.0 (grad school minimum) will be pretty tough...especially if I am now going to cram five CS courses into my last semester.
Then I thought about doing a postbac. I haven't really researched the entry requirements for this, but since all the jobs I've seen require a "BS or MS in Computer Science, Engineering, or equivalent field," maybe if I did a postbac it would count as an "equivalent field."
Oh, and my school is no help for career advice. Yes, I'm shouting it from the rooftops, William & Mary's career advice is consistent: "Get a LinkedIn profile." (It's an open secret here, I think.)
So I guess I was just hoping for some advice. Would a postbac be a good idea? I seriously doubt I am a very competitive applicant for grad school at this point. And to be honest, I am not entirely interested in staying in academia; this is strictly for better job opportunities. If I went to graduate school, it would likely be in media or graphics, which is what I would really like to do. (I know that requires advanced math and advanced techniques, and that is what's worrying me.. )
Well anyway, enough of that. A minor is OK, but I think it's too late to major in CS. The major is 40 credits I think, and I only have 2 semesters to do it. Three, if I really want to hate myself.
Why would this not be worth doing?
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:56 AM on August 1, 2013
Why would this not be worth doing?
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:56 AM on August 1, 2013
Software Engineering is actually a pretty merit-based field to hire in. People don't necessarily care all that much about your schooling, and more about your skills. That said, it's difficult to develop the skills without the schooling, and even if you do, it's difficult to demonstrate that you've done so unless it comes with something, either a degree or job experience, to put on your resumé.
It's hard to get a CS internship when you're a religion major am I right!
Yes. It's going to be a lot easier if you're a CS major. It's also tough with a sub-3.0 GPA.
What I don't understand is why your timeframe is so short. I'm sure you were intending to graduate in two more semesters, but really, what's going to happen to you if you take three or four to finish? You're talking about 30-40 years of career here. Is waiting an extra six months or a year to get started in the one you actually want really that huge of a setback?
But it looks like you're going to have to take these classes, unless you've taken some of them already:
CSCI 141
CSSI 241
CSCI 243
CSCI 301
CSCI 303
CSCI 304
CSCI 312
CSCI 423
MATH 111
MATH 112
MATH 211
Plus four elective classes.
That's possibly 15 classes to take, all of which are serious classes. That's going to be tough to do even in three semesters.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:07 AM on August 1, 2013
It's hard to get a CS internship when you're a religion major am I right!
Yes. It's going to be a lot easier if you're a CS major. It's also tough with a sub-3.0 GPA.
What I don't understand is why your timeframe is so short. I'm sure you were intending to graduate in two more semesters, but really, what's going to happen to you if you take three or four to finish? You're talking about 30-40 years of career here. Is waiting an extra six months or a year to get started in the one you actually want really that huge of a setback?
But it looks like you're going to have to take these classes, unless you've taken some of them already:
CSCI 141
CSSI 241
CSCI 243
CSCI 301
CSCI 303
CSCI 304
CSCI 312
CSCI 423
MATH 111
MATH 112
MATH 211
Plus four elective classes.
That's possibly 15 classes to take, all of which are serious classes. That's going to be tough to do even in three semesters.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:07 AM on August 1, 2013
2.) No matter how ingrained it is that you can come from a poor high-school-educated family, living in a small town where all your friends got jobs in fast food, and work your way out of it, in reality that just doesn't happen very often.
It doesn't, but you are already in the position where it *can* happen to you. If you want it to happen to you, don't squander the opportunity, even if you're a bit behind where you could have been.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:08 AM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
It doesn't, but you are already in the position where it *can* happen to you. If you want it to happen to you, don't squander the opportunity, even if you're a bit behind where you could have been.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:08 AM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
The vast majority of software developers that I personally know have liberal arts degrees. Start as a front end developer, make a living, produce stuff worth showing off, and move up from there.
posted by COD at 11:10 AM on August 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by COD at 11:10 AM on August 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: 2.) No matter how ingrained it is that you can come from a poor high-school-educated family, living in a small town where all your friends got jobs in fast food, and work your way out of it, in reality that just doesn't happen very often.
The odds of it happening when you've graduated from one of the top colleges in the country is much higher, however. If you want to get a job in CS, do whatever you possibly can to get a job in front-end web development if those are the only avenues available to you. (DON'T do Quality Assurance/Testing, though)
Realistically, though, you should also check with your career office and see what your cohorts in your major or other people with liberal arts degrees are doing if they're not going to graduate school.
posted by deanc at 11:12 AM on August 1, 2013
The odds of it happening when you've graduated from one of the top colleges in the country is much higher, however. If you want to get a job in CS, do whatever you possibly can to get a job in front-end web development if those are the only avenues available to you. (DON'T do Quality Assurance/Testing, though)
Realistically, though, you should also check with your career office and see what your cohorts in your major or other people with liberal arts degrees are doing if they're not going to graduate school.
posted by deanc at 11:12 AM on August 1, 2013
Response by poster: What I don't understand is why your timeframe is so short. I'm sure you were intending to graduate in two more semesters, but really, what's going to happen to you if you take three or four to finish? You're talking about 30-40 years of career here. Is waiting an extra six months or a year to get started in the one you actually want really that huge of a setback?
That's a good point... Just wanted to add that I'm pretty sure I only have two-and-possibly-three semesters before they will force me to graduate, due to the school's Rules. That's the main reason I can't do a major.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 11:14 AM on August 1, 2013
That's a good point... Just wanted to add that I'm pretty sure I only have two-and-possibly-three semesters before they will force me to graduate, due to the school's Rules. That's the main reason I can't do a major.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 11:14 AM on August 1, 2013
Best answer: From what I've read about the field, there is a significant amount of programmers who are self-taught. In most entry-level programming jobs, your portfolio and technical skill will matter more than your degree and GPA. I highly suggest posting what you've written above at reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions. Also check out the advice in these threads from people in a similar position: 1, 2. The basic advice is to start working on projects that interest you and upload them to Github to create a portfolio.
However, I think it is worth the time and money to spend as much time as you need to get this degree, especially if you're coming from a non-technical background. There is no reason to hate yourself for taking extra time to graduate or spending the money/racking up loans. If it's only 40 credits, you could knock that out in 2 years, taking 3 CS/math classes a semester, or even less if you can take classes over the summer or winter break.
Just saw your update about the graduation requirements. Definitely find out for sure if you're going to be forced to graduate in a certain timeframe. Is it possible to transfer to a different school (perhaps a public state school which costs less)?
posted by shoreline at 11:17 AM on August 1, 2013
However, I think it is worth the time and money to spend as much time as you need to get this degree, especially if you're coming from a non-technical background. There is no reason to hate yourself for taking extra time to graduate or spending the money/racking up loans. If it's only 40 credits, you could knock that out in 2 years, taking 3 CS/math classes a semester, or even less if you can take classes over the summer or winter break.
Just saw your update about the graduation requirements. Definitely find out for sure if you're going to be forced to graduate in a certain timeframe. Is it possible to transfer to a different school (perhaps a public state school which costs less)?
posted by shoreline at 11:17 AM on August 1, 2013
Best answer: Agreed, you don't need a degree in CS to get a programming job.
In fact, stop thinking about graduate school now. It would be a waste, if your goal is work writing code. Don't take any post-grad classes, either, unless you think you need them. If you do take classes, do it for yourself, not to earn a degree or present to other people.
You are better judged by your code, than anything else. In fact, if a company wouldn't consider you based on whether your degree is CS or not, that's a bad corporate smell. You likely would be better off not working there, anyway.
The best thing you can do for yourself is write good code. The language doesn't really matter that much. If you write good front-end code, that quality will walk with you to the next language/platform/framework you use.
Write good code, that people can reuse. And, put it on Github. That alone can get you an awesome job, even if it takes a little time for you to find it.
Also, you are most likely to find good programming jobs in the NYC or SF areas. Otherwise, you're looking at moving to some other major city. Don't return to your small home town. That's probably the best advice I can think to give you.
Good luck!
posted by Citrus at 11:33 AM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
In fact, stop thinking about graduate school now. It would be a waste, if your goal is work writing code. Don't take any post-grad classes, either, unless you think you need them. If you do take classes, do it for yourself, not to earn a degree or present to other people.
You are better judged by your code, than anything else. In fact, if a company wouldn't consider you based on whether your degree is CS or not, that's a bad corporate smell. You likely would be better off not working there, anyway.
The best thing you can do for yourself is write good code. The language doesn't really matter that much. If you write good front-end code, that quality will walk with you to the next language/platform/framework you use.
Write good code, that people can reuse. And, put it on Github. That alone can get you an awesome job, even if it takes a little time for you to find it.
Also, you are most likely to find good programming jobs in the NYC or SF areas. Otherwise, you're looking at moving to some other major city. Don't return to your small home town. That's probably the best advice I can think to give you.
Good luck!
posted by Citrus at 11:33 AM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
This idea that some huge portion or even the majority of professional programmers are self-taught or majored in something completely unrelated to CS isn't true in my experience.
I work in Silicon Valley and have worked at established companies and five man startups. By far, most programmers studied CS in college. Whether they got a BS or a MS or dropped out after their junior year to join a startup varies, but it's actually fairly uncommon to find programmers in Silicon Valley with no formal programming training. I personally have no CS degree, but I passed 95% of the classes required to get one and then joined a startup in San Francisco without actually graduating. I know a lot more people who did something like that than people who majored in liberal arts.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:50 AM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
I work in Silicon Valley and have worked at established companies and five man startups. By far, most programmers studied CS in college. Whether they got a BS or a MS or dropped out after their junior year to join a startup varies, but it's actually fairly uncommon to find programmers in Silicon Valley with no formal programming training. I personally have no CS degree, but I passed 95% of the classes required to get one and then joined a startup in San Francisco without actually graduating. I know a lot more people who did something like that than people who majored in liberal arts.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:50 AM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just get your degree and do as well as you can. Let the employers decide what "and equivalent" means. Some of the best software engineers I've ever worked with were music majors who decided they wanted to eat 3 meals a day.
posted by cmm at 11:51 AM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by cmm at 11:51 AM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I am a front end developer. Even for a front end job, I'd rather hire someone with a CS degree. My team is split between people with CS degrees and those without.
-Our CS degrees write stronger code. They eliminate wet code. They name things better. They know what a functional language is, they know what object-oriented programming is, they know other languages besides javascript and our company's proprietary templating language, so they understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of javascript wrt javascript's functional nature, inheritance model, weak typing, etc. They have a better sense for how abstract a piece of code needs to be.
-Our CS degrees understand memory management and performance considerations; the other guys don't-this matters a lot since we're building complex mobile webapps.
-Our CS degrees understand the roles of the application engineers, DevOps, and network team that support us; they communicate with those team members better than the non-CS guys do.
-Our CS degrees understand our toolchain, and can therefore build tools rather than just use them. They understand the pieces of the toolchain that are awkward and understand how to make them better. Our CS degrees innovate, our non-CS degrees merely create.
posted by Kwine at 12:46 PM on August 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
-Our CS degrees write stronger code. They eliminate wet code. They name things better. They know what a functional language is, they know what object-oriented programming is, they know other languages besides javascript and our company's proprietary templating language, so they understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of javascript wrt javascript's functional nature, inheritance model, weak typing, etc. They have a better sense for how abstract a piece of code needs to be.
-Our CS degrees understand memory management and performance considerations; the other guys don't-this matters a lot since we're building complex mobile webapps.
-Our CS degrees understand the roles of the application engineers, DevOps, and network team that support us; they communicate with those team members better than the non-CS guys do.
-Our CS degrees understand our toolchain, and can therefore build tools rather than just use them. They understand the pieces of the toolchain that are awkward and understand how to make them better. Our CS degrees innovate, our non-CS degrees merely create.
posted by Kwine at 12:46 PM on August 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think that a CS minor, along with a compelling GitHub profile that features some OSS contributions or side projects of your own, is a fine way to get your foot in the door.
The truth is that there is a shortage of skilled programmers, so if you come across as enthusiastic and motivated to learn, you'll absolutely get interviews. Small companies might tend to be more willing to be flexible on degree requirements and a lot of CS undergrads (around here at least) think it's cool to work for big name companies, so focusing a job search there might also improve your chances.
I don't have any experience with your part of the country, but it looks like there are Ruby and Python meetups in the Norfolk area; events like that are a great way to learn what developers actually do and what skills employers are looking for.
(Also, I don't think there's anything inherently lesser about front end development...it's a specialized skill and you can do very well if you're good at it)
posted by substars at 12:49 PM on August 1, 2013
The truth is that there is a shortage of skilled programmers, so if you come across as enthusiastic and motivated to learn, you'll absolutely get interviews. Small companies might tend to be more willing to be flexible on degree requirements and a lot of CS undergrads (around here at least) think it's cool to work for big name companies, so focusing a job search there might also improve your chances.
I don't have any experience with your part of the country, but it looks like there are Ruby and Python meetups in the Norfolk area; events like that are a great way to learn what developers actually do and what skills employers are looking for.
(Also, I don't think there's anything inherently lesser about front end development...it's a specialized skill and you can do very well if you're good at it)
posted by substars at 12:49 PM on August 1, 2013
As an alternative, if you want that MS, Go talk with VA Torczon (if she's still chair) and/or the undergrad advisor (Debbie Noonan? ) [most everyone I know has retired] .. There's a 1-year MS which you may or may not qualify for (GPA, GRE, having someone in the department that knows who you are, etc). You'd probably have to take "remedial" classes to get some basics out of the way, but it may be possible.
That gets you a MS, which puts you a bit higher on the fresh-out-of-college list.
Additionally, thoughts on *where* (location) you want to work, and/or what kind of programming you really want to do ?
Generally, I would agree with Kwine, I've ran into enough exceptions that I I'll give benefit of the doubt. (Though physics majors are 100% no doubt horribly awful coders)
posted by k5.user at 12:58 PM on August 1, 2013
That gets you a MS, which puts you a bit higher on the fresh-out-of-college list.
Additionally, thoughts on *where* (location) you want to work, and/or what kind of programming you really want to do ?
Generally, I would agree with Kwine, I've ran into enough exceptions that I I'll give benefit of the doubt. (Though physics majors are 100% no doubt horribly awful coders)
posted by k5.user at 12:58 PM on August 1, 2013
When you're several years out of college, it is no longer embarrassing that it took you five years to graduate. It is no longer embarrassing that it took you six or seven or eight years to graduate, or that you left school and then came back and graduated when you were older (and wiser, and more apt to take it seriously).
It's not too late. It's almost never too late, but it's certainly not too late when you're only halfway through college and you just want to change your major.
Talk to an adviser about your interest in changing majors vs. the amount of time you have left to finish. Seriously consider other options, like transferring to a different school for a final year to get the degree you want. (Even if it's less prestigious, and maybe even if you have to actually pay for one year of school.)
And consider what others are saying about the fact that a CS degree isn't always required. I have always been in or on the periphery of the tech world, and the majority of the people I know who code for a living do not have a CS degree.
posted by aabbbiee at 12:59 PM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's not too late. It's almost never too late, but it's certainly not too late when you're only halfway through college and you just want to change your major.
Talk to an adviser about your interest in changing majors vs. the amount of time you have left to finish. Seriously consider other options, like transferring to a different school for a final year to get the degree you want. (Even if it's less prestigious, and maybe even if you have to actually pay for one year of school.)
And consider what others are saying about the fact that a CS degree isn't always required. I have always been in or on the periphery of the tech world, and the majority of the people I know who code for a living do not have a CS degree.
posted by aabbbiee at 12:59 PM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Alright, so you've got 8 free semesters at W&M. You've spent 6 of them on your religion major. A CS degree is at least another 3/4 semesters away. You've already arranged to have 1 more semester to finish your minor in CS and degree in religion. Why not get an extra 2-3 semesters to do a double degree, double major?
If you can buy/beg/borrow/steal semesters number 10, 11 and maybe 12 you'll run into W&M's "progress towards degree" requirements. This won't let you wholesale swap your Religion major for a CS major. You'll still need to finish up your religion degree while working on your CS requirements. Also, keep in mind for every requirement and policy, exemptions can be granted for you.
I think you should talk to an advisor in the CS department, about adding CS as a second degree, second major. If the first CS advisor you talk to is a jerk, find another one. Find a general studies advisor for the college CS is in. Keep knocking on doors until someone will hear you out. Go to a Dean or two if you need to. Make your case. Show your side projects. Be earnest.
I would not go back to that small town with a BA in religion under any circumstances, even free rent. That has been the formula for so many classmates getting stuck. The ones that took 7 or 8 years, to get 2 degrees, 3 minors and a lot more perspective? They're doing ok. They're getting the jobs they want.
posted by fontophilic at 1:21 PM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you can buy/beg/borrow/steal semesters number 10, 11 and maybe 12 you'll run into W&M's "progress towards degree" requirements. This won't let you wholesale swap your Religion major for a CS major. You'll still need to finish up your religion degree while working on your CS requirements. Also, keep in mind for every requirement and policy, exemptions can be granted for you.
I think you should talk to an advisor in the CS department, about adding CS as a second degree, second major. If the first CS advisor you talk to is a jerk, find another one. Find a general studies advisor for the college CS is in. Keep knocking on doors until someone will hear you out. Go to a Dean or two if you need to. Make your case. Show your side projects. Be earnest.
I would not go back to that small town with a BA in religion under any circumstances, even free rent. That has been the formula for so many classmates getting stuck. The ones that took 7 or 8 years, to get 2 degrees, 3 minors and a lot more perspective? They're doing ok. They're getting the jobs they want.
posted by fontophilic at 1:21 PM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: 0. don't even think about grad school until you have first held a real job for a year after college.
1. get a minor and graduate with really solid grades in all your CS classes (and math if possible, don't worry too much about religion grades).
2. Besides studying, code in your spare time. Then write more code. Then go back and rewrite it better because oh god look at how bad that stuff you wrote two months ago is, you know so much better now!
2.1. Try very hard to also start going to code meetups. Pick a dev community and join the hell out of it, whether it's Ruby, Python, whatever. Start frontend, pick something hot enough to have meetup groups and intro sessions and geek talks, and dedicate yourself to it. Network at these meetup groups, ask about jobs and internships and jobs and coding and jobs.
3. If you haven't yet found a job when you graduate, apply to Hacker School or similar, network more among the people you meet there, and take the best job offer you get out of there even if it is entirely frontend work.
4. Now someone is paying you to program. Program what they want in exchange for money, and work on what you want to in the evenings. Try and do some feature work on the backend during the day job as well (easier to do this if you join a smaller company). If you can't transition to a backend job at the same company, then apply for a job in backend development at a new company, with some good solid stories of what you have done, either as special features at your old job or in the evenings.
other comments:
Unfortunately, from skimming the rules for the 1 year MS in CS, it looks like it would be very difficult for you to qualify - it requires you to have complete 4 of the 6 courses in the minor before your senior year, and to take two grad CS courses during your senior year, and you need a GPA of 3.0 to be eligible to enrol in the grad courses. I would forget about this option unless you have a friendly professor at the college who is enthusiastic about sponsoring you for it and pushing back on the requirements for you.
When you say 'cram 5 CS courses into my last semester': why would you do that? It would be far better to take a reasonable load and do well in them, especially as your final semester will likely contain all 3 of your 300 level electives (assuming that you are taking 141 this semester and will take 241 and 243 in the fall semester, which are prerequisites for all 300 level courses - according to this prereq chart). After you've completed a couple mid-level courses you might be able to line up an internship and do it for credit as class 498 in the spring semester along with CS 303 and CS 312, and a third 3xx course if you want to graduate that semester.
Unfortunately CS301, Software Development, is only available in the fall - if you can, it would likely be worth sticking around the extra semester and taking this course. It looks like you do have to apply to graduate, so you shouldn't need to worry that you'll just get auto graduated, but again you should run it by an academic advisor (now, as a 'what if I' scenario). As a graduating senior in that semester, you might be allowed to take only three courses (underloading) which should allow you to absolutely nail all the work, as well as do some project work and lots of networking on the side.
As far as extending your time at the college: You need permission from the 'Committee on Degrees' to take more than 10 semesters. That will give you the extra semester you need to squeeze in a minor with one spare if you fail anything and need to retake it or to stay on to do CS 301, but you'd have to find somebody at the college who can tell you if 'I want to change my major' is considered a good enough reason to get that permission.
posted by jacalata at 4:06 PM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
1. get a minor and graduate with really solid grades in all your CS classes (and math if possible, don't worry too much about religion grades).
2. Besides studying, code in your spare time. Then write more code. Then go back and rewrite it better because oh god look at how bad that stuff you wrote two months ago is, you know so much better now!
2.1. Try very hard to also start going to code meetups. Pick a dev community and join the hell out of it, whether it's Ruby, Python, whatever. Start frontend, pick something hot enough to have meetup groups and intro sessions and geek talks, and dedicate yourself to it. Network at these meetup groups, ask about jobs and internships and jobs and coding and jobs.
3. If you haven't yet found a job when you graduate, apply to Hacker School or similar, network more among the people you meet there, and take the best job offer you get out of there even if it is entirely frontend work.
4. Now someone is paying you to program. Program what they want in exchange for money, and work on what you want to in the evenings. Try and do some feature work on the backend during the day job as well (easier to do this if you join a smaller company). If you can't transition to a backend job at the same company, then apply for a job in backend development at a new company, with some good solid stories of what you have done, either as special features at your old job or in the evenings.
other comments:
Unfortunately, from skimming the rules for the 1 year MS in CS, it looks like it would be very difficult for you to qualify - it requires you to have complete 4 of the 6 courses in the minor before your senior year, and to take two grad CS courses during your senior year, and you need a GPA of 3.0 to be eligible to enrol in the grad courses. I would forget about this option unless you have a friendly professor at the college who is enthusiastic about sponsoring you for it and pushing back on the requirements for you.
When you say 'cram 5 CS courses into my last semester': why would you do that? It would be far better to take a reasonable load and do well in them, especially as your final semester will likely contain all 3 of your 300 level electives (assuming that you are taking 141 this semester and will take 241 and 243 in the fall semester, which are prerequisites for all 300 level courses - according to this prereq chart). After you've completed a couple mid-level courses you might be able to line up an internship and do it for credit as class 498 in the spring semester along with CS 303 and CS 312, and a third 3xx course if you want to graduate that semester.
Unfortunately CS301, Software Development, is only available in the fall - if you can, it would likely be worth sticking around the extra semester and taking this course. It looks like you do have to apply to graduate, so you shouldn't need to worry that you'll just get auto graduated, but again you should run it by an academic advisor (now, as a 'what if I' scenario). As a graduating senior in that semester, you might be allowed to take only three courses (underloading) which should allow you to absolutely nail all the work, as well as do some project work and lots of networking on the side.
As far as extending your time at the college: You need permission from the 'Committee on Degrees' to take more than 10 semesters. That will give you the extra semester you need to squeeze in a minor with one spare if you fail anything and need to retake it or to stay on to do CS 301, but you'd have to find somebody at the college who can tell you if 'I want to change my major' is considered a good enough reason to get that permission.
posted by jacalata at 4:06 PM on August 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Actually, I forgot you'd transferred - for the 10 semester rule, it says "since enrolment at the College", but it also says " summer semesters, transfer credits, and approved underload semesters are counted as the number of credits attempted divided by 15" so you might need to calculate whether that takes you to December 2014 or something different.
posted by jacalata at 4:24 PM on August 1, 2013
posted by jacalata at 4:24 PM on August 1, 2013
I majored in a liberal arts field for the first 3 years of school and then transferred to CS. Yeah, I graduated 3 semesters after I "should" have, but I think it was worth it. Now I work for a large software company and while I don't use my CS education every day, it comes in handy more than I would have thought. My understanding is that my company doesn't really hire people without CS or related degrees. I don't know that there's really a substitute for being forced to work through all the theory and math that go along with the degree. So if you're not up for getting the full degree, do yourself the favor of talking your way into the toughest classes that you can (AI, compilers, numerical methods, more math than you're comfortable with) and you'll at least get the core of that experience.
It was hard work to get the degree in an accelerated fashion, but I loved it and found it to be very rewarding on an intellectual level. Also, as other commenters have said, once you get out into the corporate world, no one cares how long you took to graduate.
Of course this is all purely anecdotal and YMMV etc.
posted by avaunt at 5:43 PM on August 1, 2013
It was hard work to get the degree in an accelerated fashion, but I loved it and found it to be very rewarding on an intellectual level. Also, as other commenters have said, once you get out into the corporate world, no one cares how long you took to graduate.
Of course this is all purely anecdotal and YMMV etc.
posted by avaunt at 5:43 PM on August 1, 2013
I'm gong to disagree with most of the advice here.
You have a history of questions which casually mention constantly-shifting career paths, college transfers, and major changes. Your questions also hint at anxiety or depression problems (is there a chance that something like this was behind your recent flop semester?) I honestly think you should do what you can to stick with your current plan--your current BA and a CS minor--and while doing that, I think you should go talk to the counselors at W&M.
This goes double if you're in debt for your education.
Your focus should probably be on getting out and getting a Normal Job. I know it's not glamorous, but it can be a real foundation for other things. Honestly, at this point, I suspect you're letting the perfect--the One True Career which will make the other pieces of your life fall into place--be the enemy of the good--getting your degree and moving on to the next stage of your life.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:15 PM on August 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
You have a history of questions which casually mention constantly-shifting career paths, college transfers, and major changes. Your questions also hint at anxiety or depression problems (is there a chance that something like this was behind your recent flop semester?) I honestly think you should do what you can to stick with your current plan--your current BA and a CS minor--and while doing that, I think you should go talk to the counselors at W&M.
This goes double if you're in debt for your education.
Your focus should probably be on getting out and getting a Normal Job. I know it's not glamorous, but it can be a real foundation for other things. Honestly, at this point, I suspect you're letting the perfect--the One True Career which will make the other pieces of your life fall into place--be the enemy of the good--getting your degree and moving on to the next stage of your life.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:15 PM on August 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
That's a good point... Just wanted to add that I'm pretty sure I only have two-and-possibly-three semesters before they will force me to graduate, due to the school's Rules. That's the main reason I can't do a major.
Switch schools.
posted by empath at 8:14 PM on August 1, 2013
Switch schools.
posted by empath at 8:14 PM on August 1, 2013
Response by poster: PhoBWanKenobi: I know that I definitely switch interests pretty often, but I am absolutely no longer going to be pursuing Jewish Studies for personal reasons (which I've probably mentioned?), and since I'm not in debt (in fact they're giving me money (!!!) ), I would like to stick to the more reasonable career choice...
And since I'm not going to be using my Jewish Studies degree, I'm just trying to find a way to actually be able to get that Normal (non-religion-related) Job.
edit: good answers though so far, thanks guys :)
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 8:54 PM on August 1, 2013
And since I'm not going to be using my Jewish Studies degree, I'm just trying to find a way to actually be able to get that Normal (non-religion-related) Job.
edit: good answers though so far, thanks guys :)
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 8:54 PM on August 1, 2013
if what you really want to do is media or graphics then why not pursue that? will the minor in CS help with this field or would you need more than a minor to pursue it? you only live once so pursue what you love. unless it is some field where like there are 2 job openings every year. then, you need to be a wee bit more practical and do something as close to it as you can where you can actually eat too.
posted by wildflower at 9:32 PM on August 1, 2013
posted by wildflower at 9:32 PM on August 1, 2013
Best answer: PhoBWanKenobi: I know that I definitely switch interests pretty often, but I am absolutely no longer going to be pursuing Jewish Studies for personal reasons (which I've probably mentioned?), and since I'm not in debt (in fact they're giving me money (!!!) ), I would like to stick to the more reasonable career choice...
That's understandable! And I'm glad they're paying for it. I just grok from your posting history that you've changed majors and schools several times before that (this isn't the first time that you've mentioned being close to graduating!) With only three months left, you should really just finish the degree you almost have. You can, in fact, get a "normal" job with a liberal arts degree. It's hard in this job market, but it's not impossible or impractical and stretching out your education further, with a resume full of schools and a low GPA, is not going to help your job prospects much, in this field or any other.
I empathize, because I watched my husband blunder through a similar situation for years. But it becomes one of those situations where you can continue to switch majors to search for an ever-more-perfect career or field or look realistically at the situation you're in and figure out how to make the most of it. I know it's hard, coming from a lower income family--as a smart kid, you've probably both been told to dream big and not been given any of the concrete skills to actually make those dreams possible. Think of it this way: if your parents were loaded, old money folks, and they were paying for your education, what would they want you to do? Probably not pick a new major which, at this point (and based on past behavior), you may or may not finish. They'd want you to finish the degree that you nearly have, while addressing whatever problems created that 1.75 GPA semester.
Once you graduate, spend a year or two working and exploring post-bac options. Continue with the programming, see if it's something you're still interested in. My interests a year after graduating college were drastically different than my interests while in college. You kind of have to figure out who you are before you can figure out (realistically!) what you can be, and in my experience the buffet-style of options available to many college students can be a sort of deterrent to that, not a help to it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:56 PM on August 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
That's understandable! And I'm glad they're paying for it. I just grok from your posting history that you've changed majors and schools several times before that (this isn't the first time that you've mentioned being close to graduating!) With only three months left, you should really just finish the degree you almost have. You can, in fact, get a "normal" job with a liberal arts degree. It's hard in this job market, but it's not impossible or impractical and stretching out your education further, with a resume full of schools and a low GPA, is not going to help your job prospects much, in this field or any other.
I empathize, because I watched my husband blunder through a similar situation for years. But it becomes one of those situations where you can continue to switch majors to search for an ever-more-perfect career or field or look realistically at the situation you're in and figure out how to make the most of it. I know it's hard, coming from a lower income family--as a smart kid, you've probably both been told to dream big and not been given any of the concrete skills to actually make those dreams possible. Think of it this way: if your parents were loaded, old money folks, and they were paying for your education, what would they want you to do? Probably not pick a new major which, at this point (and based on past behavior), you may or may not finish. They'd want you to finish the degree that you nearly have, while addressing whatever problems created that 1.75 GPA semester.
Once you graduate, spend a year or two working and exploring post-bac options. Continue with the programming, see if it's something you're still interested in. My interests a year after graduating college were drastically different than my interests while in college. You kind of have to figure out who you are before you can figure out (realistically!) what you can be, and in my experience the buffet-style of options available to many college students can be a sort of deterrent to that, not a help to it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:56 PM on August 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Sorry that this is not really answering your question about whether or not you should continue with higher education for CS. I have definitely noticed that for lots of entry level jobs at non-profits and such put a HUGE priority on hiring people who have liberal arts backgrounds as well as basic coding or web design skills. I do not work in a CS field myself, but as an English major I have noticed the edge that people with tech skills have in getting hired.
If you are just worried about your ability to find work after graduation, you might want to try looking at job postings for your ideal job in the area you want to live to see what kinds of skills/qualifications they're actually looking for.
posted by forkisbetter at 9:11 AM on August 2, 2013
If you are just worried about your ability to find work after graduation, you might want to try looking at job postings for your ideal job in the area you want to live to see what kinds of skills/qualifications they're actually looking for.
posted by forkisbetter at 9:11 AM on August 2, 2013
I'm just trying to find a way to actually be able to get that Normal (non-religion-related) Job.
Don't think of jobs as being "non-religion-related" as if you have to re-specialize to get a job if it won't be something directly related to your major. You have a liberal arts degree from a prestigious university which is worthwhile no matter how your last semester went. With a little bit of planning with the career office and a few visits to some on-campus career fairs, you can leverage this into a job that has an actual career path.
posted by deanc at 11:19 AM on August 2, 2013
Don't think of jobs as being "non-religion-related" as if you have to re-specialize to get a job if it won't be something directly related to your major. You have a liberal arts degree from a prestigious university which is worthwhile no matter how your last semester went. With a little bit of planning with the career office and a few visits to some on-campus career fairs, you can leverage this into a job that has an actual career path.
posted by deanc at 11:19 AM on August 2, 2013
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I'm really freaking out a little that nothing you do without a BS in comp sci matters..until you've been doing it for 10 years, then you can call it "experience." Even then, it seems like when jobs would accept experience over a degree, it's in "real-world experience," which I don't exactly have. (It's hard to get a CS internship when you're a religion major am I right! All I have are my mozilla bugs u_u which I haven't even fixed yet... u_u )
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 10:54 AM on August 1, 2013