"Accidental misfire." Ummm.... what?
July 12, 2013 5:59 AM Subscribe
My roommate accidentally "misfired" one of his guns in his room. How worried should my housemates and I be? How should we handle this situation? Advice please.
I have a roommate - an unfriendly, abrasive, and staunch libertarian who speaks vociferously about gun rights - who recently started splurging like a madman on guns and ammo. I have nothing against responsible gun owners, but the thing is, my roommate just leaves his handguns, rifle, and ammunition strewn around his room... on his floor, nightstand, desk, and bed. He doesn't have a gun safe. I know this because he leaves his door open almost all times of the day, both when he is and isn't home. Only during the past few days have my other housemates and I gotten together to talk about our gun-loving roommate (who incidentally has just left town for the week), and all of us are confused, worried, and scared.
Not long ago, my roommate bought an assault rifle from someone online, which he bragged about to me and had me hold to see. I had never held a gun before in my life, and stupidly accepted the weapon when he handed it to me to look at without telling me whether it was loaded or not, and without instructing me to check the chamber. When I mentioned this to my friend (who knows a few things about guns), he told me it was clear my roommate didn't know what he was doing. I regretted not telling my roommate that I was not comfortable with him having guns in the house. I was too afraid to bring it up knowing his irascible and disagreeable nature, and the fact that he cocks and loads his guns and watches gun videos almost daily. I did not want to push his buttons and get on his bad side, for fear of being his first target (an irrational thought, I know, but I was crippled with fear).
My roommate is a loner type who ridicules others who don't bend to his Randian logic, and sees everyone else as stupid. For as long as I've known him, he'd never been a polite or friendly person at all. He'd walk into the same room as me (and my housemates, apparently) with his head down, walk around us and use the sink or grab something from the refrigerator, without saying a word. I cooked him dinner in the past and ate at the same table with him in complete silence. When he finished his meal, he simply walked away without saying a word or showing any gratitude. That was when I knew he was really strange, and we've hardly interacted with each other over the past several months since (even though it's not my natural inclination to actively ignore someone I'm living with; this has been a source of tension for me in the house, and I've found this has also been a source of tension for my other housemates, who have similarly kept themselves sheltered in their own rooms to avoid awkward confrontations with said roommate).
Lately, he's become increasingly more antisocial and withdrawn. Even with visitors over, he walks straight past everyone and into his room, where he starts loudly toying around with his weapons.
Just the other day, my friend reported to me and my housemates that he saw our roommate walk into his room, close the door behind him, and heard a gun shot minutes later (probably a .22). He was shocked and checked to see if everything was all right, when our roommate blurted out matter-of-factually that he was okay and that he had just accidentally misfired.
What the fucking fuck? My roommate could have KILLED somebody! "Accidental misfire" sounds like bullshit to me. I discussed the situation with my housemates and we were all in shock. We spent the past couple of days mulling over how to deal with this, and are torn as to how to proceed, especially because our irresponsible gun-loving roommate is out of town until next week.
I contacted our landlord to schedule a meeting in the next few days. Off the top of our heads, we have at least four options as to how to proceed:
(1) We tell our landlord that our roommate has guns and ammo unsecured in his room, and that we feel unsafe in our house and are extremely uncomfortable with the fact that anybody who breaks in could easily use his weapons to kill. Our landlord would almost certainly issue an eviction notice, which is presumably the LAST thing our roommate wants to see when he gets back in town, or force him to get his weapons out of the house (as far as I can tell, there is no stipulation in the lease regarding gun ownership in a rental unit), which he would also feel very strongly against. The other consequence is that our roommate would know that we ratted him out when he was away, and judging from how churlish and volatile he is (his work colleagues have described him as a brooding, angry person who would bring weapons to work), we worry that he will snap on us and exact retribution some day down the line.
(2) Our lease expires in the near future, and our roommate has stated he will for sure be moving out of the house. We don't tell our landlord that he has weapons, and play hush hush for the next several weeks, praying he won't "accidentally misfire" again while we are living with him. We don't talk about the guns at all to him, and try our best not to push his buttons despite how unnerving it is to be around him. Most of us are gone during the days anyway (working full-time), so all we have to do is limit our interactions with him and not give him any reason to be upset with us.
(3) Move. A person as recalcitrant as our roommate is impossible to negotiate with, especially one who is so boisterously outspoken about the right to bear arms, and so convinced that he knows what he's doing. Realistically, not all of us will be able to move before he returns, and when he does return and find out his roommates are gone/in the process of leaving, he may suspect we've conspired against him in some way. At least we will not be where he can hurt us.
(4) We may be overreacting to the situation entirely. We don't think our roommate is a bad person, just very misunderstood, and lacking in social skills and empathy. For all we know, maybe he's just living out the rest of the lease trying to limit his interactions with us because he doesn't want to be bothered. It's mostly scary knowing that with his personality, he could flip out at any moment. How can we approach him to ask him to get a gun safe and stop playing with his weapons in his room, without looking like we're all ganging up on him? What if he refuses to oblige, and we end up having to tell our landlord anyway? How do we keep ourselves safe from harm?
Please advise on the best course of action, including any others you can think of. We very much would like to continue living here if possible, but we also obviously would like to be and feel safe and sound in our own home. Thank you for your help.
I have a roommate - an unfriendly, abrasive, and staunch libertarian who speaks vociferously about gun rights - who recently started splurging like a madman on guns and ammo. I have nothing against responsible gun owners, but the thing is, my roommate just leaves his handguns, rifle, and ammunition strewn around his room... on his floor, nightstand, desk, and bed. He doesn't have a gun safe. I know this because he leaves his door open almost all times of the day, both when he is and isn't home. Only during the past few days have my other housemates and I gotten together to talk about our gun-loving roommate (who incidentally has just left town for the week), and all of us are confused, worried, and scared.
Not long ago, my roommate bought an assault rifle from someone online, which he bragged about to me and had me hold to see. I had never held a gun before in my life, and stupidly accepted the weapon when he handed it to me to look at without telling me whether it was loaded or not, and without instructing me to check the chamber. When I mentioned this to my friend (who knows a few things about guns), he told me it was clear my roommate didn't know what he was doing. I regretted not telling my roommate that I was not comfortable with him having guns in the house. I was too afraid to bring it up knowing his irascible and disagreeable nature, and the fact that he cocks and loads his guns and watches gun videos almost daily. I did not want to push his buttons and get on his bad side, for fear of being his first target (an irrational thought, I know, but I was crippled with fear).
My roommate is a loner type who ridicules others who don't bend to his Randian logic, and sees everyone else as stupid. For as long as I've known him, he'd never been a polite or friendly person at all. He'd walk into the same room as me (and my housemates, apparently) with his head down, walk around us and use the sink or grab something from the refrigerator, without saying a word. I cooked him dinner in the past and ate at the same table with him in complete silence. When he finished his meal, he simply walked away without saying a word or showing any gratitude. That was when I knew he was really strange, and we've hardly interacted with each other over the past several months since (even though it's not my natural inclination to actively ignore someone I'm living with; this has been a source of tension for me in the house, and I've found this has also been a source of tension for my other housemates, who have similarly kept themselves sheltered in their own rooms to avoid awkward confrontations with said roommate).
Lately, he's become increasingly more antisocial and withdrawn. Even with visitors over, he walks straight past everyone and into his room, where he starts loudly toying around with his weapons.
Just the other day, my friend reported to me and my housemates that he saw our roommate walk into his room, close the door behind him, and heard a gun shot minutes later (probably a .22). He was shocked and checked to see if everything was all right, when our roommate blurted out matter-of-factually that he was okay and that he had just accidentally misfired.
What the fucking fuck? My roommate could have KILLED somebody! "Accidental misfire" sounds like bullshit to me. I discussed the situation with my housemates and we were all in shock. We spent the past couple of days mulling over how to deal with this, and are torn as to how to proceed, especially because our irresponsible gun-loving roommate is out of town until next week.
I contacted our landlord to schedule a meeting in the next few days. Off the top of our heads, we have at least four options as to how to proceed:
(1) We tell our landlord that our roommate has guns and ammo unsecured in his room, and that we feel unsafe in our house and are extremely uncomfortable with the fact that anybody who breaks in could easily use his weapons to kill. Our landlord would almost certainly issue an eviction notice, which is presumably the LAST thing our roommate wants to see when he gets back in town, or force him to get his weapons out of the house (as far as I can tell, there is no stipulation in the lease regarding gun ownership in a rental unit), which he would also feel very strongly against. The other consequence is that our roommate would know that we ratted him out when he was away, and judging from how churlish and volatile he is (his work colleagues have described him as a brooding, angry person who would bring weapons to work), we worry that he will snap on us and exact retribution some day down the line.
(2) Our lease expires in the near future, and our roommate has stated he will for sure be moving out of the house. We don't tell our landlord that he has weapons, and play hush hush for the next several weeks, praying he won't "accidentally misfire" again while we are living with him. We don't talk about the guns at all to him, and try our best not to push his buttons despite how unnerving it is to be around him. Most of us are gone during the days anyway (working full-time), so all we have to do is limit our interactions with him and not give him any reason to be upset with us.
(3) Move. A person as recalcitrant as our roommate is impossible to negotiate with, especially one who is so boisterously outspoken about the right to bear arms, and so convinced that he knows what he's doing. Realistically, not all of us will be able to move before he returns, and when he does return and find out his roommates are gone/in the process of leaving, he may suspect we've conspired against him in some way. At least we will not be where he can hurt us.
(4) We may be overreacting to the situation entirely. We don't think our roommate is a bad person, just very misunderstood, and lacking in social skills and empathy. For all we know, maybe he's just living out the rest of the lease trying to limit his interactions with us because he doesn't want to be bothered. It's mostly scary knowing that with his personality, he could flip out at any moment. How can we approach him to ask him to get a gun safe and stop playing with his weapons in his room, without looking like we're all ganging up on him? What if he refuses to oblige, and we end up having to tell our landlord anyway? How do we keep ourselves safe from harm?
Please advise on the best course of action, including any others you can think of. We very much would like to continue living here if possible, but we also obviously would like to be and feel safe and sound in our own home. Thank you for your help.
What the fucking fuck? My roommate could have KILLED somebody! "Accidental misfire" sounds like bullshit to me.
I doubt it's "bullshit." Accidentally firing a gun is precisely the kind of think that happens when you're careless and irresponsible with firearms.
You're absolutely 100% not overreacting; your roommates is dangerously careless with deadly weapons. As a person speak to this from afar, I say move. The current situation is dangerous in a "this could possible kill you" kind of way. If I were you, I'd probably actually go with option 2 because it's only a couple weeks, but I'd know that I was making a more dangerous choice.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:08 AM on July 12, 2013 [18 favorites]
I doubt it's "bullshit." Accidentally firing a gun is precisely the kind of think that happens when you're careless and irresponsible with firearms.
You're absolutely 100% not overreacting; your roommates is dangerously careless with deadly weapons. As a person speak to this from afar, I say move. The current situation is dangerous in a "this could possible kill you" kind of way. If I were you, I'd probably actually go with option 2 because it's only a couple weeks, but I'd know that I was making a more dangerous choice.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:08 AM on July 12, 2013 [18 favorites]
I'm as pro-gun as anybody. But guns don't go off by themselves. Sounds like your roommate needs education (if he's willing to be educated, that is)
You state that he's also abrasive / difficult / socially awkward / whatever. That's sort of a different issue, I think. Which will take care of itself in terms of your point 3. And your point 4 also applies.
But he should IMO get himself together in terms of gun use, he's giving us a bad name.
posted by wrm at 6:09 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
You state that he's also abrasive / difficult / socially awkward / whatever. That's sort of a different issue, I think. Which will take care of itself in terms of your point 3. And your point 4 also applies.
But he should IMO get himself together in terms of gun use, he's giving us a bad name.
posted by wrm at 6:09 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure what advice I'd give you here about actions to take, but I will say this: your fear of being targeted is not irrational.
Please don't try to talk yourself out of being afraid. If I was in close quarters with a disagreeable, antisocial person who left weapons sitting out everywhere irresponsibly, I would be scared as hell.
posted by Old Man McKay at 6:09 AM on July 12, 2013 [32 favorites]
Please don't try to talk yourself out of being afraid. If I was in close quarters with a disagreeable, antisocial person who left weapons sitting out everywhere irresponsibly, I would be scared as hell.
posted by Old Man McKay at 6:09 AM on July 12, 2013 [32 favorites]
While he is gone, take the opportunity to clear out completely. Tell the landlord why you are leaving (none of you feels safe).
This guy sounds unstabile as HELL and I wouldn't poke the bear if I lived with him.
Once out, call the cops and let them know that you have a wackadoodle in 14-F who has weapons and ammo and you don't know the provinance of ANY of it.
The cops will come and ask for appropriate documentation. Chances are, some of the stuff will be confiscated.
Give notice now, and you and the other two roommates should find a better place to be.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:10 AM on July 12, 2013 [66 favorites]
This guy sounds unstabile as HELL and I wouldn't poke the bear if I lived with him.
Once out, call the cops and let them know that you have a wackadoodle in 14-F who has weapons and ammo and you don't know the provinance of ANY of it.
The cops will come and ask for appropriate documentation. Chances are, some of the stuff will be confiscated.
Give notice now, and you and the other two roommates should find a better place to be.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:10 AM on July 12, 2013 [66 favorites]
The meeting is already scheduled with the landlord, but you know, what are the "unsecured gun laws" in the state? I'd possibly be speaking with the non emergency line of the police to have them secure them until the roomate can safely claim them back.
*not a gun owner, no idea about gun laws, but roommate seems like a total problem. NOT SAFE.
posted by tilde at 6:11 AM on July 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
*not a gun owner, no idea about gun laws, but roommate seems like a total problem. NOT SAFE.
posted by tilde at 6:11 AM on July 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
an unfriendly, abrasive, and staunch libertarian who speaks vociferously about gun rights
While this is great information for making us think he is a "bad guy", this has nothing to do with the safety issue that is the subject of your question. He gets to like guns and brag about the ones he owns and watch all the gun videos he wants and be Randian.
That being said, as a long-time gun owner and concealed carry permit holder, I find your roommate's behavior absolutely unacceptable. There is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". It was a negligent discharge. I cannot overstate how unsafe this situation is.
You are not overreacting. If I were you, I would move immediately. That solution is the quickest, easiest, and most assured of success. Alternatively, while I have not seen your lease, I would imagine that this discharge would be a type of conduct that would entitle a right of eviction by the landlord. As a landlord myself, I would find this to be grounds for eviction. Merely having the guns in the house and your feeling unsafe is probably not sufficient grounds for eviction, but I think the discharge probably is.
Once out, call the cops and let them know that you have a wackadoodle in 14-F who has weapons and ammo and you don't know the provenance of ANY of it.
The cops will come and ask for appropriate documentation. Chances are, some of the stuff will be confiscated.
I recommend against this advice. The authorities are not going to come out and seize property because of your feelings and depending on the state, no documentation may be required for gun ownership. If you want to report a crime, such as discharge of a firearm inside city limits, that would be another thing although I do not think it helps that the offense was not reported immediately. But, I don't generally recommend getting the authorities involved in this matter. While this is a serious safety issue, you do not indicate that he has illegally acquired the guns.
posted by Tanizaki at 6:14 AM on July 12, 2013 [26 favorites]
While this is great information for making us think he is a "bad guy", this has nothing to do with the safety issue that is the subject of your question. He gets to like guns and brag about the ones he owns and watch all the gun videos he wants and be Randian.
That being said, as a long-time gun owner and concealed carry permit holder, I find your roommate's behavior absolutely unacceptable. There is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". It was a negligent discharge. I cannot overstate how unsafe this situation is.
You are not overreacting. If I were you, I would move immediately. That solution is the quickest, easiest, and most assured of success. Alternatively, while I have not seen your lease, I would imagine that this discharge would be a type of conduct that would entitle a right of eviction by the landlord. As a landlord myself, I would find this to be grounds for eviction. Merely having the guns in the house and your feeling unsafe is probably not sufficient grounds for eviction, but I think the discharge probably is.
Once out, call the cops and let them know that you have a wackadoodle in 14-F who has weapons and ammo and you don't know the provenance of ANY of it.
The cops will come and ask for appropriate documentation. Chances are, some of the stuff will be confiscated.
I recommend against this advice. The authorities are not going to come out and seize property because of your feelings and depending on the state, no documentation may be required for gun ownership. If you want to report a crime, such as discharge of a firearm inside city limits, that would be another thing although I do not think it helps that the offense was not reported immediately. But, I don't generally recommend getting the authorities involved in this matter. While this is a serious safety issue, you do not indicate that he has illegally acquired the guns.
posted by Tanizaki at 6:14 AM on July 12, 2013 [26 favorites]
The proper term is negligent discharge.
I know several gun owners and I know one or two who've had a negligent discharge. Their reaction to it is more in line with yours -- making sure everyone is okay and shock/concern that someone could have been hurt due to their actions. You can look around gun forums and find similar reactions from other people who've had it happen.
Your roommate's indifference to the thing as if it were nothing more than accidentally passing gas at the dinner table along with his practices of just leaving guns laying around is definitely cause for concern.
It sounds like he has no real idea about how to safely handle guns and you're not overreacting at all in thinking he's a safety risk.
posted by Gev at 6:14 AM on July 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
I know several gun owners and I know one or two who've had a negligent discharge. Their reaction to it is more in line with yours -- making sure everyone is okay and shock/concern that someone could have been hurt due to their actions. You can look around gun forums and find similar reactions from other people who've had it happen.
Your roommate's indifference to the thing as if it were nothing more than accidentally passing gas at the dinner table along with his practices of just leaving guns laying around is definitely cause for concern.
It sounds like he has no real idea about how to safely handle guns and you're not overreacting at all in thinking he's a safety risk.
posted by Gev at 6:14 AM on July 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
Ah, your roommate is one of those responsible gun owners. Boy, this is tough. You think, if I confront this guy, he could shoot the whole place up. I'd be tempted to have a conversation with the police, actually. I'd be curious what the laws of gun ownership were in your area and whether he is violating any of them. Perhaps the police might talk with him as part of a routine sweep?
If you feel like you can talk to him, I'd ask him is he thinks the house is a secured facility and then point out that it is not. That he's creating an attractive environment for a break-in and he needs to store his guns offsite in a secure way.
Secondly, drywall ain't Kevlar. You might say that you've never heard of an experienced gun owner (not true) "misfiring" a gun in the house. He is not safe and until he takes these police recommended safety courses, he needs to find another place to store his guns and ammo.
Then you gotta move or evict him.
posted by amanda at 6:15 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you feel like you can talk to him, I'd ask him is he thinks the house is a secured facility and then point out that it is not. That he's creating an attractive environment for a break-in and he needs to store his guns offsite in a secure way.
Secondly, drywall ain't Kevlar. You might say that you've never heard of an experienced gun owner (not true) "misfiring" a gun in the house. He is not safe and until he takes these police recommended safety courses, he needs to find another place to store his guns and ammo.
Then you gotta move or evict him.
posted by amanda at 6:15 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just FYI, what your roommate had happen is called called a "negligent discharge", so-called because it can only happen when you are negligent about gun safety.
The landlord should be aware that the legal precedent over evicting someone because they have (legally owned) firearms in their possession is not clear. In some states, that may not be a lawful eviction. He would need to tread very carefully, as the roommate — if he really wanted to — could probably make trouble over it. (Although the fact that he had a negligent discharge is not going to help his case at all; that might give grounds that mere possession of firearms doesn't.) It would be much easier for the landlord to just not renew his lease; at least in most places no cause is needed for a non-renewal. While the mechanics of a possible eviction are not your problem, just don't think that if you talk to the landlord that the guy will suddenly be gone. Rather, there could be an ugly paperwork standoff between the renter and the landlord that you will be trapped in the house alongside.
Anyway, I would probably just leave the guy alone and move out. Without knowing him, it's impossible to say whether the ND occurred because of simple negligence / not knowing a particular firearm well, and will never happen again now that he's presumably scared the shit out of himself, or if it's because he's sloppy (it will happen again), or some other reason, it's hard to gauge whether you would be making things worse or better by escalating the situation i.e. trying to get him evicted.
I'd start looking for a new place and just get out of there. Maybe see if you could use the roommate and the ND as a reason to break your current lease, leave early, and move out as soon as you've found alternative living situations. Then let the current landlord deal with the roommate (not a situation I'd envy, but whatever, they're a landlord — their problem, sucks for them, best not to be around while they solve it).
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:15 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
The landlord should be aware that the legal precedent over evicting someone because they have (legally owned) firearms in their possession is not clear. In some states, that may not be a lawful eviction. He would need to tread very carefully, as the roommate — if he really wanted to — could probably make trouble over it. (Although the fact that he had a negligent discharge is not going to help his case at all; that might give grounds that mere possession of firearms doesn't.) It would be much easier for the landlord to just not renew his lease; at least in most places no cause is needed for a non-renewal. While the mechanics of a possible eviction are not your problem, just don't think that if you talk to the landlord that the guy will suddenly be gone. Rather, there could be an ugly paperwork standoff between the renter and the landlord that you will be trapped in the house alongside.
Anyway, I would probably just leave the guy alone and move out. Without knowing him, it's impossible to say whether the ND occurred because of simple negligence / not knowing a particular firearm well, and will never happen again now that he's presumably scared the shit out of himself, or if it's because he's sloppy (it will happen again), or some other reason, it's hard to gauge whether you would be making things worse or better by escalating the situation i.e. trying to get him evicted.
I'd start looking for a new place and just get out of there. Maybe see if you could use the roommate and the ND as a reason to break your current lease, leave early, and move out as soon as you've found alternative living situations. Then let the current landlord deal with the roommate (not a situation I'd envy, but whatever, they're a landlord — their problem, sucks for them, best not to be around while they solve it).
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:15 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE call 911 and ask for advice.
I'm posting on behalf of your neighbors, wherever and whoever they may be. Bullets can travel pretty far through drywall. Far enough to kill.
Back in Charlotte, a friend of mine lived on the third floor of an apartment complex, and one night, someone on the second floor of the same building accidentally fired a rifle. The bullet ended up lodged about an inch deep in my friend's wooden dresser drawers, and he was not happy about this.
posted by oceanjesse at 6:16 AM on July 12, 2013 [10 favorites]
I'm posting on behalf of your neighbors, wherever and whoever they may be. Bullets can travel pretty far through drywall. Far enough to kill.
Back in Charlotte, a friend of mine lived on the third floor of an apartment complex, and one night, someone on the second floor of the same building accidentally fired a rifle. The bullet ended up lodged about an inch deep in my friend's wooden dresser drawers, and he was not happy about this.
posted by oceanjesse at 6:16 AM on July 12, 2013 [10 favorites]
I own guns. I sometimes shoot them, and I know a bit about gun safety.
This guy is putting you and everybody else around him at risk of death or severe, permanent injury.
If I felt comfortable having the conversation, I'd have a conversation with him about gun safety and about some rules for how he is to have the guns in the house. (It stays unloaded and locked at all times. He can take it out, locked, when he goes to the range to practice with it. He cleans it at the range and it is locked again before it enters the house. It is never loaded in the house. No exceptions.*) I'd consider, too, whether I trusted him to follow those rules, because you are trusting him with your life.
If I couldn't have that conversation with him, or if I didn't trust him 100% to follow the rules I describe above, I'd leave. I'd walk. I don't know what your lease or security deposit situation is like, but none of those things is worth your life.
* He's going to want an exception for in case there might be a burglar breaking and entering. Don't give it to him. The gun stays locked and unloaded at all times.
posted by gauche at 6:22 AM on July 12, 2013 [17 favorites]
This guy is putting you and everybody else around him at risk of death or severe, permanent injury.
If I felt comfortable having the conversation, I'd have a conversation with him about gun safety and about some rules for how he is to have the guns in the house. (It stays unloaded and locked at all times. He can take it out, locked, when he goes to the range to practice with it. He cleans it at the range and it is locked again before it enters the house. It is never loaded in the house. No exceptions.*) I'd consider, too, whether I trusted him to follow those rules, because you are trusting him with your life.
If I couldn't have that conversation with him, or if I didn't trust him 100% to follow the rules I describe above, I'd leave. I'd walk. I don't know what your lease or security deposit situation is like, but none of those things is worth your life.
* He's going to want an exception for in case there might be a burglar breaking and entering. Don't give it to him. The gun stays locked and unloaded at all times.
posted by gauche at 6:22 AM on July 12, 2013 [17 favorites]
My brother is young and lives in the south, and has in the last year or so taken up an "Obama is trying to take our guns" mentality. He's purchased several guns. He gets excited when talking about them, and likes going to the firing range and shooting them, and likes talking about gun ownership. He has talked about getting an assault rifle ("I know it's silly and I don't need one, but I kind of want one just because some people say I can't"). He has a concealed carry permit and wears a gun on him from time to time.
I roll my eyes at his reasoning for it, but he is extremely careful with them. Last Thanksgiving we went to a shooting range together, and before we even got out of the car he lectured me about how to hold a gun properly, how to check to see if it's loaded, proper gun safety, etc. We grew up in a gun-owning (not gun-loving, just gun-owning) family, so I knew all this stuff already, but he insisted that we have a review before I even got to touch one of them.
At the shooting range, one of the guys there (all strangers to us) started to act weird, shouting angrily and just in general seeming "off," so my brother quickly packed up and decided we should go, because it's not safe to be around people who seem unstable and are holding loaded weapons.
Anyway, I share this to show what it looks like when someone who is vociferous about gun rights and really likes guns uses guns responsibly. I think you are right on about your fears regarding your roommate, and you are right to want to want to separate yourself from him.
If I were in your position, I would start looking for a new place to move with your other roommates now, and get out as quickly as possible. Tell the landlord. Good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 6:31 AM on July 12, 2013 [49 favorites]
I roll my eyes at his reasoning for it, but he is extremely careful with them. Last Thanksgiving we went to a shooting range together, and before we even got out of the car he lectured me about how to hold a gun properly, how to check to see if it's loaded, proper gun safety, etc. We grew up in a gun-owning (not gun-loving, just gun-owning) family, so I knew all this stuff already, but he insisted that we have a review before I even got to touch one of them.
At the shooting range, one of the guys there (all strangers to us) started to act weird, shouting angrily and just in general seeming "off," so my brother quickly packed up and decided we should go, because it's not safe to be around people who seem unstable and are holding loaded weapons.
Anyway, I share this to show what it looks like when someone who is vociferous about gun rights and really likes guns uses guns responsibly. I think you are right on about your fears regarding your roommate, and you are right to want to want to separate yourself from him.
If I were in your position, I would start looking for a new place to move with your other roommates now, and get out as quickly as possible. Tell the landlord. Good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 6:31 AM on July 12, 2013 [49 favorites]
Move!
Your lease expires soon you said.
And although you would like to live in the house, its not safe. By staying, you are taking a gamble that nothing will go wrong. If your gamble works, all you get is few months of nice housing to stay, may be some financial benefit. But if your gamble fails, you might be physically injured or have significant property damage.
The payoff isn't worth the risk.
Tell the landlord why you are leaving and that you would be happy to be back if the guy leaves.
Don't make it a "feel safe and sound in our own home". This is not your home. Its a rented premise. Don't even think of standing your ground.
And whether landlord or police or someone will help you will depend on the state laws and attitude towards guns.
Oh, by the way, these days every police force is worried about a loner, unsocial, gun nut with a large cache of weapons. They would definitely be interested in knowing about this. Telling them about this guy is not ratting out.
posted by TheLittlePrince at 6:33 AM on July 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
Your lease expires soon you said.
And although you would like to live in the house, its not safe. By staying, you are taking a gamble that nothing will go wrong. If your gamble works, all you get is few months of nice housing to stay, may be some financial benefit. But if your gamble fails, you might be physically injured or have significant property damage.
The payoff isn't worth the risk.
Tell the landlord why you are leaving and that you would be happy to be back if the guy leaves.
Don't make it a "feel safe and sound in our own home". This is not your home. Its a rented premise. Don't even think of standing your ground.
And whether landlord or police or someone will help you will depend on the state laws and attitude towards guns.
Oh, by the way, these days every police force is worried about a loner, unsocial, gun nut with a large cache of weapons. They would definitely be interested in knowing about this. Telling them about this guy is not ratting out.
posted by TheLittlePrince at 6:33 AM on July 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
I didn't even have to read past that first sentence. Move out.
posted by something something at 6:34 AM on July 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by something something at 6:34 AM on July 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
I'd consider informing the police about the negligent discharge and seeing if there's anything they can do --- for instance, if not having a gun safe is not legal or if he doesn't have his weapons properly registered, etc.
Your roommate sounds dangerous and unstable beyond belief. If you know anything about his family and they are reasonable people, I'd consider contacting them as well.
And I'd move. Without telling him. An unreasonable person with an unstable state of mind who has easy access to guns is not someone I'd want to have a conversation with about how I'm moving out or someone I'd want to be around if he gets an eviction notice.
posted by zizzle at 6:34 AM on July 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
Your roommate sounds dangerous and unstable beyond belief. If you know anything about his family and they are reasonable people, I'd consider contacting them as well.
And I'd move. Without telling him. An unreasonable person with an unstable state of mind who has easy access to guns is not someone I'd want to have a conversation with about how I'm moving out or someone I'd want to be around if he gets an eviction notice.
posted by zizzle at 6:34 AM on July 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
While this is great information for making us think he is a "bad guy", this has nothing to do with the safety issue that is the subject of your question.
It is precisely relevant because it demonstrates that he has an ignorance of rules and norms and/or a desire to flout such social norms coupled with a demand that the roommates conform to him, not the other way around. As to the gestalt of the situation, it is quite relevant. His handling of firearms isn't out of simple ignorance. They're out of willful disregard of safety and legal norms.
posted by deanc at 6:36 AM on July 12, 2013 [26 favorites]
It is precisely relevant because it demonstrates that he has an ignorance of rules and norms and/or a desire to flout such social norms coupled with a demand that the roommates conform to him, not the other way around. As to the gestalt of the situation, it is quite relevant. His handling of firearms isn't out of simple ignorance. They're out of willful disregard of safety and legal norms.
posted by deanc at 6:36 AM on July 12, 2013 [26 favorites]
Mod note: Just a quick reminder: Please don't make this a discussion about gun rights, libertarians, etc.; please don't argue with other commentors. Address the OP with your helpful advice. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:43 AM on July 12, 2013
posted by taz (staff) at 6:43 AM on July 12, 2013
Step one, call the police. Fill them in on all this. I agree with TheLittlePrince that he is EXACTLY the type that the police are very interested in, and with cause. He may be a nice guy deep down and is just "misunderstood", but he is also an erratic, unstable, unsafe individual with a lot of weapons and no idea how to safely use them. The police need to know this. This isn't like you are calling the police about your antisocial weird unstable roomate who likes to play first person shooters all day. You aren't being a busybody or "ratting him out". He is an unstable individual with a lot of weapons that he isn't using safely. You NEED to tell the police about it. Your safety, his safety, and the safety of everyone around him is on the line with this one.
Step two, pack all you stuff up TODAY and move. Immediately. Get out before he gets back. All of you should. This isn't a situation where you should be "waiting it out" and praying nothing else happens. You are risking SO MUCH by doing that, and it is crazy to even consider it if you ask me. You need to leave. NOW. Your safety matters. You can talk to your landlord, explain everything, but without question you are out of that apartment and move someplace where he isn't and where he doesn't know where you are.
But seriously, call the police.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 6:45 AM on July 12, 2013 [13 favorites]
Step two, pack all you stuff up TODAY and move. Immediately. Get out before he gets back. All of you should. This isn't a situation where you should be "waiting it out" and praying nothing else happens. You are risking SO MUCH by doing that, and it is crazy to even consider it if you ask me. You need to leave. NOW. Your safety matters. You can talk to your landlord, explain everything, but without question you are out of that apartment and move someplace where he isn't and where he doesn't know where you are.
But seriously, call the police.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 6:45 AM on July 12, 2013 [13 favorites]
People get killed this way on a routine basis. This dude sure did. However you feel about guns, responsible gun owners do not, do not, DO NOT!!!!! ever do shit like this.
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:46 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:46 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I also think moving is probably the safest course of action. But, if that's not practical, or you really love the place you're living in and it's a screamin' deal that you're unlikely to find elsewhere and there's just a few weeks left on the lease, can you all "go out of town" yourselves for a few weeks? Granted, this would involve leaving your possessions in his control, but if you could do it in a way that doesn't seem suspicious, and then he wants to move out anyway so he'll be gone and you can sign another lease without him and come back.
posted by Weeping_angel at 6:49 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Weeping_angel at 6:49 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I would do a combination of your options:
- MOVE,
- let the landlord know (the most important bit is the accidental firing of the gun, not the fact that he owns a ton of weapons - but tell all details),
- call the police and ask them what they think you should do.
If I were in your place my immediate priority would be to take care of myself (by moving), but I would not want to let this guy off the hook of accidentally? firing a gun without at least trying to do something about it. Think of his future roommates.
I don't think you are overreacting at all... in fact, almost every person who went on to commit a violent crime was at a point an individual without a criminal record and a normal enough life. It is after the fact that you start connecting statements like "oh yeah, Bob was hoarding weapons and using them irresponsibly" and "Bob was part of this very violent internet community" (for example) and you see how obvious things were, but what is the use when the damage is done? This is serious enough to notify the appropriate authorities (landlord, police)
posted by Tarumba at 6:51 AM on July 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
- MOVE,
- let the landlord know (the most important bit is the accidental firing of the gun, not the fact that he owns a ton of weapons - but tell all details),
- call the police and ask them what they think you should do.
If I were in your place my immediate priority would be to take care of myself (by moving), but I would not want to let this guy off the hook of accidentally? firing a gun without at least trying to do something about it. Think of his future roommates.
I don't think you are overreacting at all... in fact, almost every person who went on to commit a violent crime was at a point an individual without a criminal record and a normal enough life. It is after the fact that you start connecting statements like "oh yeah, Bob was hoarding weapons and using them irresponsibly" and "Bob was part of this very violent internet community" (for example) and you see how obvious things were, but what is the use when the damage is done? This is serious enough to notify the appropriate authorities (landlord, police)
posted by Tarumba at 6:51 AM on July 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
Move. You can find somewhere else to live and a few weeks rent is nothing to lose compared to possibly getting shot. There are lots of apartments. Definitely give the landlord a heads up, but be wary if he/she tries to keep the peace just to keep you in place as paying tenants.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:56 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:56 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Please, immediately, today, right now, find somewhere else that you can stay, however temporarily and leave. (move out of) the house at the first possible opportunity. your life is in danger. run away. Figure out what to do from somewhere safe.
posted by windykites at 6:56 AM on July 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by windykites at 6:56 AM on July 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
Our lease expires in the near future, and our roommate has stated he will for sure be moving out of the house.
If you can, at all, take vacation or sick time to spend the rest of your lease (two weeks?) in some place that is not within range of poorly-handled firearms, please go for that option. Or sublet. Your roommate should never, ever, leave weapons lying around and if he makes the same "mistake" again, one of you (or your neighbors) could be seriously wounded or killed.
If you cannot take the remainder of the lease off, I would reexamine your lease for any relevant details and speak with either the non-emergency line for the police or your local tenants group to see if they can help with any legal issues that may be a part of this situation-- but that depends heavily on your location. I doubt your landlord would be happy with firearm damage resulting from a negligent discharge, but whether or not he could be evicted for it is something a lawyer would have to determine.
Be safe-- I hope this is resolved soon.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:06 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you can, at all, take vacation or sick time to spend the rest of your lease (two weeks?) in some place that is not within range of poorly-handled firearms, please go for that option. Or sublet. Your roommate should never, ever, leave weapons lying around and if he makes the same "mistake" again, one of you (or your neighbors) could be seriously wounded or killed.
If you cannot take the remainder of the lease off, I would reexamine your lease for any relevant details and speak with either the non-emergency line for the police or your local tenants group to see if they can help with any legal issues that may be a part of this situation-- but that depends heavily on your location. I doubt your landlord would be happy with firearm damage resulting from a negligent discharge, but whether or not he could be evicted for it is something a lawyer would have to determine.
Be safe-- I hope this is resolved soon.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:06 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
The reality of the situation is that even if you and your roommates check into hotels for the next month until he moves, the lives of your neighbors are still in no less danger than you were. Please keep this in mind when making your decision. You have the right to decide to be in a situation where you could be killed. You don't have the right to decide that for your neighbors.
posted by Jairus at 7:18 AM on July 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by Jairus at 7:18 AM on July 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
Evictions in most states in the US take a lot of time and involve a court hearing. Your roommate sounds like the sort who would really enjoy going to court to argue that he is being discriminated against as a gun owner.
Call your landlord, and tell him that a meeting isn't necessary. Inform him that your roommate has multiple unsecured guns on premises and that he negligently discharged one. Then let him know that you plan to call the police, just so he knows, and that you plan to move out. Inform him that while you would like to stay on the lease another year, you cannot do that if he allows your roommate to renew his lease. See what he says. Put the conversation in writing, print it out, and mail it to him certified, so you have a record.
Then, call the police, like you said. Just give them the information you gave here, don't embellish, but you can lay out facts: roommate is amassing guns, has become more antisocial and withdrawn, negligently discharged a gun on X date, is not currently in your home and will not be back until X date, you are concerned for your safety and the safety of others. While I'm not generally a fan of inviting the police into your own home, I think this is a good exception to that rule.
Finally, if at all possible, get the hell out while he is away and stay out until he is gone permanently. If you can get the mods to post your nearest metro area, I bet there are some Mefites that can assist in an emergency evacuation for you and your roommates, and couches/spare rooms to stay on until your lease ends. If your landlord allows for your roommate's name on the lease to expire while keeping yours on for the following year, you can go back once he's cleared the apartment.
If you're in or near Chicago, don't hesitate to MeMail me. I might be able to help with lodging or logistics.
posted by juniperesque at 7:19 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Call your landlord, and tell him that a meeting isn't necessary. Inform him that your roommate has multiple unsecured guns on premises and that he negligently discharged one. Then let him know that you plan to call the police, just so he knows, and that you plan to move out. Inform him that while you would like to stay on the lease another year, you cannot do that if he allows your roommate to renew his lease. See what he says. Put the conversation in writing, print it out, and mail it to him certified, so you have a record.
Then, call the police, like you said. Just give them the information you gave here, don't embellish, but you can lay out facts: roommate is amassing guns, has become more antisocial and withdrawn, negligently discharged a gun on X date, is not currently in your home and will not be back until X date, you are concerned for your safety and the safety of others. While I'm not generally a fan of inviting the police into your own home, I think this is a good exception to that rule.
Finally, if at all possible, get the hell out while he is away and stay out until he is gone permanently. If you can get the mods to post your nearest metro area, I bet there are some Mefites that can assist in an emergency evacuation for you and your roommates, and couches/spare rooms to stay on until your lease ends. If your landlord allows for your roommate's name on the lease to expire while keeping yours on for the following year, you can go back once he's cleared the apartment.
If you're in or near Chicago, don't hesitate to MeMail me. I might be able to help with lodging or logistics.
posted by juniperesque at 7:19 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
If you move, and I sure hope you do, get a P.O. box and forward your mail. Don't leave a new street address behind.
posted by SillyShepherd at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2013 [18 favorites]
posted by SillyShepherd at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2013 [18 favorites]
Whatever the explanation for the discharge, you need to move out now.
But I find it hard to believe the gun misfired. I think far more likely, your roommate is crazier than you're even giving him credit for, and fired it intentionally and passed it off as a "misfire." Which, in a way, is a scarier proposition than it being an accident.
It requires trigger pressure to fire a gun.
posted by Unified Theory at 7:27 AM on July 12, 2013 [11 favorites]
But I find it hard to believe the gun misfired. I think far more likely, your roommate is crazier than you're even giving him credit for, and fired it intentionally and passed it off as a "misfire." Which, in a way, is a scarier proposition than it being an accident.
It requires trigger pressure to fire a gun.
posted by Unified Theory at 7:27 AM on July 12, 2013 [11 favorites]
Read The Gift of Fear. I don't think you are overreacting to what sounds like a very unsafe situation with some glaring warning signs.
I would think carefully about involving the police. Gavin de Becker cautions against calling the police in some cases. They may not be able to actually do anything in this situation - and the fact that you're involving them may unduly antagonise the person you're worried about, provoking him to commit violence.
If I was in your situation, I would just GTFO ASAP and make sure your roommate isn't able to track down your new address.
posted by RubyScarlet at 7:31 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I would think carefully about involving the police. Gavin de Becker cautions against calling the police in some cases. They may not be able to actually do anything in this situation - and the fact that you're involving them may unduly antagonise the person you're worried about, provoking him to commit violence.
If I was in your situation, I would just GTFO ASAP and make sure your roommate isn't able to track down your new address.
posted by RubyScarlet at 7:31 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I can't even read all this because: what the what.
I'm a gun owner. I'm pro-right-to-carry AND pro-reasonable regulation, which pretty much infuriates everyone, but if you're looking for validation, here it is:
This guy is going to kill someone one of these days. Find another place to live, stat.
Your landlord has a right to be informed, both because he or she has a right to know about the situation, and because there is almost certainly a .22 caliber hole in his or her property somewhere (unless the bullet stopped in some furniture or personal effects, which is possible, esp. with a small caliber gun).
edit: Nthing: a modern firearm will not "just go off."
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:31 AM on July 12, 2013 [11 favorites]
I'm a gun owner. I'm pro-right-to-carry AND pro-reasonable regulation, which pretty much infuriates everyone, but if you're looking for validation, here it is:
This guy is going to kill someone one of these days. Find another place to live, stat.
Your landlord has a right to be informed, both because he or she has a right to know about the situation, and because there is almost certainly a .22 caliber hole in his or her property somewhere (unless the bullet stopped in some furniture or personal effects, which is possible, esp. with a small caliber gun).
edit: Nthing: a modern firearm will not "just go off."
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:31 AM on July 12, 2013 [11 favorites]
Yeah...he just discharged a firearm in a house. Unless you live on a prairie, he could have shot you, your housemates, or your neighbor's 3 year old daughter. You should call the police, explain the situation, let them take it from there, before he kills someone's loved one.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 7:39 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Salvor Hardin at 7:39 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Don't spend another night in that house while he is there.
posted by bq at 7:39 AM on July 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by bq at 7:39 AM on July 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
I recommend calling the police.
In many cities, discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal. Accidental or not, he could be charged. That's up to the cops and the DA.
But mainly, that will put him on their radar.
Also, I'd look for a new place to live.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:40 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
In many cities, discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal. Accidental or not, he could be charged. That's up to the cops and the DA.
But mainly, that will put him on their radar.
Also, I'd look for a new place to live.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:40 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
You are not overreacting. You are UNDER reacting. Whatever it takes, remove yourself from the household. Move out immediately, while he is away. Even if you can't move all your stuff out right away, surely someone you know has a sofa you can sleep on temporarily.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 7:40 AM on July 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 7:40 AM on July 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
I don't have much advice, but I'll just say that where I come from, he'd be arrested and behind bars for what he'd been doing even before the "misfire". You don't need him where you live. Call the cops, now. You have many years of life ahead of you, and this dumb shit has no right to risk them.
posted by Jimbob at 7:42 AM on July 12, 2013
posted by Jimbob at 7:42 AM on July 12, 2013
Definitely call the cops, because when this guy inevitably hurts or kills someone, his excuse will be that he was a responsible gun owner up until the point something irresponsible happened. Take pictures if you can, too.
The less chances he has to get away with shit like this now, even if it doesn't result in action from law enforcement in this instance, the less chances he'll have of getting away with it in the future.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:47 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
The less chances he has to get away with shit like this now, even if it doesn't result in action from law enforcement in this instance, the less chances he'll have of getting away with it in the future.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:47 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Let's get serious here: the gun probably fired because he wanted it to fire, because he is, as you say, "increasingly more antisocial and withdrawn". This is a very dangerous person. You need to collect your belongings and get out of there. Even a shitty hotel is a temporary option. You need to be in a place where this guy doesn't know where you are. Then, inform the landlord of everything. Consider making an anonymous tip to police as well. Sorry you're in this situation!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:47 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:47 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
While I don't see why anybody needs to own a ton of guns or fully-automatic weapons, as long as they're careful, responsible gun owners who handle and store their weapons and ammunition properly in locked gunsafes, it's cool.
However: this dude is NOT a careful or responsible gun owner: he's well into negligent, careless and downright dangerous wackjob territory. Leaving loaded weapons laying around in the open, with not even a closed door to put them out of the general view? Bullets have been known to travel through exterior brick wall, let alone interior drywall; he is clearly endangering everyone in the house. And honestly, I doubt he HAS any clear understanding of the true meaning of 'libertarian' other than "I get to do any damn thing I feel like doing".
As everyone says, moving out before he gets back is the best plan; unfortunately, as you mention, not everyone in the house CAN get out that fast. How soon is the lease up? If it's within a month or two, try to hang in until then..... if it's six months, screw it: get out now.
posted by easily confused at 7:59 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
However: this dude is NOT a careful or responsible gun owner: he's well into negligent, careless and downright dangerous wackjob territory. Leaving loaded weapons laying around in the open, with not even a closed door to put them out of the general view? Bullets have been known to travel through exterior brick wall, let alone interior drywall; he is clearly endangering everyone in the house. And honestly, I doubt he HAS any clear understanding of the true meaning of 'libertarian' other than "I get to do any damn thing I feel like doing".
As everyone says, moving out before he gets back is the best plan; unfortunately, as you mention, not everyone in the house CAN get out that fast. How soon is the lease up? If it's within a month or two, try to hang in until then..... if it's six months, screw it: get out now.
posted by easily confused at 7:59 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
The way I see it, the fact that he is out of town right now is a gift in your situation. Don't waste it. Move immediately. You may not get this opportunity again.
posted by RubyScarlet at 8:03 AM on July 12, 2013 [15 favorites]
posted by RubyScarlet at 8:03 AM on July 12, 2013 [15 favorites]
Yeah, coming back in to say that the "accidental" misfire is bullshit and not an excuse. Let's look at the possibilities:
1. It actually did go off accidentally despite safe handling, which means the gun is defective in a life-threatening way and cannot be rendered safe, or
2. It went off because he applied sufficient pressure to the trigger while the gun was loaded, which in turn means either of:
Why was the gun loaded and chambered in the first place?
This person is not a responsible gun owner. Thinking about it a bit further I would contact the police and ask them about your situation. You don't need to give names or make a formal report at this time, you're just asking for advice. And I'd move.
posted by gauche at 8:06 AM on July 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
1. It actually did go off accidentally despite safe handling, which means the gun is defective in a life-threatening way and cannot be rendered safe, or
2. It went off because he applied sufficient pressure to the trigger while the gun was loaded, which in turn means either of:
A. He has shown himself to be careless with a lethal weapon that he knew to be loaded (he certainly should have known -- if he didn't know that's just as bad as anything else) orThis is without even contemplating a much more fundamental question, which is:
B. He intentionally fired the gun indoors, putting any number of people at risk.
Why was the gun loaded and chambered in the first place?
This person is not a responsible gun owner. Thinking about it a bit further I would contact the police and ask them about your situation. You don't need to give names or make a formal report at this time, you're just asking for advice. And I'd move.
posted by gauche at 8:06 AM on July 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
Our lease expires in the near future, and our roommate has stated he will for sure be moving out of the house.
Do you have that in writing? What are the terms of your lease? Under normal circumstances if a roommate was intending to move out when the lease expires, you'd be advertising/interviewing potential new roommates. Could that even happen in this situation?
If it were me, I'd give the landlord notice of everyone leaving when the lease ends but ahve everyone move out now, while the roommate is away. Just move out, let him come back to an empty house and a note saying you've paid your share of the rent through the end of the lease. No way would I stay in that place no matter where he's living. Even if he moves out, that's the location where his issues took hold and began escalating, I wouldn't feel safe knowing he could come back at any time should he decide to move from accidental to intentional discharge(s).
posted by headnsouth at 8:08 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Do you have that in writing? What are the terms of your lease? Under normal circumstances if a roommate was intending to move out when the lease expires, you'd be advertising/interviewing potential new roommates. Could that even happen in this situation?
If it were me, I'd give the landlord notice of everyone leaving when the lease ends but ahve everyone move out now, while the roommate is away. Just move out, let him come back to an empty house and a note saying you've paid your share of the rent through the end of the lease. No way would I stay in that place no matter where he's living. Even if he moves out, that's the location where his issues took hold and began escalating, I wouldn't feel safe knowing he could come back at any time should he decide to move from accidental to intentional discharge(s).
posted by headnsouth at 8:08 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't know what state you're in, but if you need a place to crash, I offer my cot as a safe place.
Nothing good will come of you staying there or having him in your life. Please, please get yourself and your roommates out of there. Go back when you can have a police escort to collect your things.
If you're reading this at home, get the hell out of there.
posted by haplesschild at 8:14 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Nothing good will come of you staying there or having him in your life. Please, please get yourself and your roommates out of there. Go back when you can have a police escort to collect your things.
If you're reading this at home, get the hell out of there.
posted by haplesschild at 8:14 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
FWIW, this was an accidental discharge or a negligent discharge, not a misfire. The term misfire usually connotes that some error in the firing process (including but not limited to a feed jam or a stuck bolt) which doesn't necessarily result in a discharge, or rather results in the failure of a desired discharge. A misfire means the weapon needs service of some kind. An unintended discharge usually means the shooter needs some fixin'.
For yourself, when handed a gun, follow the 4 rules of gun safety:
1: treat every gun as if it is loaded, always.
2: never point the gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy
3: Finger OFF the trigger until you're ready to shoot
4: Be aware of your target, what's in front of it, and what's behind it.
When discharges happen, someone is breaking the rules and being unsafe, and someone being unsafe with guns is definitely a problem and a potential threat to your safety.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:22 AM on July 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
For yourself, when handed a gun, follow the 4 rules of gun safety:
1: treat every gun as if it is loaded, always.
2: never point the gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy
3: Finger OFF the trigger until you're ready to shoot
4: Be aware of your target, what's in front of it, and what's behind it.
When discharges happen, someone is breaking the rules and being unsafe, and someone being unsafe with guns is definitely a problem and a potential threat to your safety.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:22 AM on July 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
Hi. I am a gunny McGun person. I am probably one of the hardest-line pro-gun folks you will find on the Green. Let me tell you, as a hard-core gun rights person who opposes most gun control, I think this guy is doing things that are not okay.
Negligent discharges absolutely, one hundred percent, happen. I was in the room for one once, when an idiot decided to use his guns as props rather than as deadly weapons. However, negligent discharges primarily happen to people who are unsafe with guns in other ways.
I have known people who keep guns and ammo around their houses or rooms, totally unsecured. These people generally live in homes where they are certain no children will come in. I think these people are wrong, but they're not necessarily SCARY OMG WRONG. It's a...philosophical debate, if you will, among certain types of gun owners.
However, the thing that is an enormous red flag to me:
He handed you his gun without teaching you how to be safe about it. This is almost worse than the negligent discharge - there is NO EXCUSE EVER for this.
However: that doesn't mean he's an unstable guy who's going to shoot people up in a crazy blaze of glory. It does mean he's what is sometimes colloquially referred to as a "mall-cop" - someone who prefers the aesthetics of danger rather than the realities of safety. Those people, however, are often more dangerous.
A lot of people are giving you a lot of advice here, and I think that some of it is good - but you need to follow a chain of escalation here. Which means maybe you eventually do call the police - but first try talking to him.
If you memail me, I will give you my phone number and you can call and ask questions on how to best do this.
posted by corb at 8:25 AM on July 12, 2013 [16 favorites]
Negligent discharges absolutely, one hundred percent, happen. I was in the room for one once, when an idiot decided to use his guns as props rather than as deadly weapons. However, negligent discharges primarily happen to people who are unsafe with guns in other ways.
I have known people who keep guns and ammo around their houses or rooms, totally unsecured. These people generally live in homes where they are certain no children will come in. I think these people are wrong, but they're not necessarily SCARY OMG WRONG. It's a...philosophical debate, if you will, among certain types of gun owners.
However, the thing that is an enormous red flag to me:
He handed you his gun without teaching you how to be safe about it. This is almost worse than the negligent discharge - there is NO EXCUSE EVER for this.
However: that doesn't mean he's an unstable guy who's going to shoot people up in a crazy blaze of glory. It does mean he's what is sometimes colloquially referred to as a "mall-cop" - someone who prefers the aesthetics of danger rather than the realities of safety. Those people, however, are often more dangerous.
A lot of people are giving you a lot of advice here, and I think that some of it is good - but you need to follow a chain of escalation here. Which means maybe you eventually do call the police - but first try talking to him.
If you memail me, I will give you my phone number and you can call and ask questions on how to best do this.
posted by corb at 8:25 AM on July 12, 2013 [16 favorites]
AYIYIYIYIYIYIY!!!!!!!
I would not be in that house with him in it. And I say that as the wife and mother of two gun enthusiasts.
Don't have the landlord meeting, call the landlord instead and give him a heads up. Then call the cops and tell them what you told us.
I don't want to read about y'all in the national news. I hope I am exaggerating, but I wouldn't risk it.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:25 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I would not be in that house with him in it. And I say that as the wife and mother of two gun enthusiasts.
Don't have the landlord meeting, call the landlord instead and give him a heads up. Then call the cops and tell them what you told us.
I don't want to read about y'all in the national news. I hope I am exaggerating, but I wouldn't risk it.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:25 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Call an attorney who specializes in landlord-tenant issues immediately. Ask what your rights and responsibilities are.
Prepare to move out immediately (depending on his travel plans, he may or may not actually be gone for a week).
posted by Etrigan at 8:27 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Prepare to move out immediately (depending on his travel plans, he may or may not actually be gone for a week).
posted by Etrigan at 8:27 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd only add to Sunburnt's list of gun safety rules the following:
5: immediately upon being handed the gun, check to see if it is loaded and chambered. If you don't know how, ask. If it is loaded and chambered, unload it and remove the round from the chamber unless it is your intention to fire the gun presently (i.e., at a range or while hunting or, God forbid, in a dangerous situation).
Loading a gun is not some amazingly time-consuming process. There's almost no reason to carry a loaded gun around or to handle a gun while it is loaded, unless you're about to shoot it (at the range) or could have reasons to shoot it at any moment (i.e., you are a cop, a soldier, or you are hunting).
posted by gauche at 8:30 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
5: immediately upon being handed the gun, check to see if it is loaded and chambered. If you don't know how, ask. If it is loaded and chambered, unload it and remove the round from the chamber unless it is your intention to fire the gun presently (i.e., at a range or while hunting or, God forbid, in a dangerous situation).
Loading a gun is not some amazingly time-consuming process. There's almost no reason to carry a loaded gun around or to handle a gun while it is loaded, unless you're about to shoot it (at the range) or could have reasons to shoot it at any moment (i.e., you are a cop, a soldier, or you are hunting).
posted by gauche at 8:30 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Get the hell out of there right now.
Just the other day, my friend reported to me and my housemates that he saw our roommate walk into his room, close the door behind him, and heard a gun shot minutes later (probably a .22). He was shocked and checked to see if everything was all right, when our roommate blurted out matter-of-factually that he was okay and that he had just accidentally misfired.
Your roommate "accidentally" discharges a weapon in his room without seeming to know, understand, or care that there are other people in your home that could be killed by his actions.
posted by inertia at 8:34 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Just the other day, my friend reported to me and my housemates that he saw our roommate walk into his room, close the door behind him, and heard a gun shot minutes later (probably a .22). He was shocked and checked to see if everything was all right, when our roommate blurted out matter-of-factually that he was okay and that he had just accidentally misfired.
Your roommate "accidentally" discharges a weapon in his room without seeming to know, understand, or care that there are other people in your home that could be killed by his actions.
posted by inertia at 8:34 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, moving forward let's answer the OPs question and leave general gun safety things alone since the OP is not a gun owner. Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:35 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:35 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would not move out right now. I would, however, call the police immediately and tell them about the negligent discharge and that you all are terrified that your roommate will retaliate if you confront him about his unsecured stockpile of weapons and ammo. I would also tell the landlord what's going on. I would also lock my bedroom door.
Whose names are on the lease? Your landlord may not be able to oust him right this very second (eviction usually takes more than a month anyway) but he can refuse to rent to him going forward.
posted by desuetude at 8:35 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Whose names are on the lease? Your landlord may not be able to oust him right this very second (eviction usually takes more than a month anyway) but he can refuse to rent to him going forward.
posted by desuetude at 8:35 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
GTFO
Apartments.Com or some other means to find a new place to live.
Get A Lawyer to deal with breaking a lease and/or other issues related to living with getting away from a dangerous person
We don't think our roommate is a bad person, just very misunderstood, and lacking in social skills and empathy
Fine. Save the feel good, "I don't want to offend" stuff for that period after the guns are out of the house (if you decide to stay). From what you wrote, you are not dealing with a long term, seasoned and well trained gun enthusiast, but a politically charged gun fetishist. Reasoned thought does not sound like this person's modus operandi. If it was, they would be looking to volunteer with their favorite libertarian candidate to further that candidate's chances of being elected, not stocking up for the impending mythical and media created, apocalypse that people like Wayne LaPierre and Alex Jones like to promote.
If you are seeing guns and paraphernalia strewn around the house, then something is clearly wrong. A stable, responsible gun owner would not do this.
A stray, discharged bullet is not going to stop at a wall to allow you the time to debate the finer points of gun ownership. It is just going to keep on going until it runs out of energy to stop going. You should hope that you are not in between that end of the gun muzzle and that stop point. You are in harm's way.
Clear enough?
posted by lampshade at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
Apartments.Com or some other means to find a new place to live.
Get A Lawyer to deal with breaking a lease and/or other issues related to living with getting away from a dangerous person
We don't think our roommate is a bad person, just very misunderstood, and lacking in social skills and empathy
Fine. Save the feel good, "I don't want to offend" stuff for that period after the guns are out of the house (if you decide to stay). From what you wrote, you are not dealing with a long term, seasoned and well trained gun enthusiast, but a politically charged gun fetishist. Reasoned thought does not sound like this person's modus operandi. If it was, they would be looking to volunteer with their favorite libertarian candidate to further that candidate's chances of being elected, not stocking up for the impending mythical and media created, apocalypse that people like Wayne LaPierre and Alex Jones like to promote.
If you are seeing guns and paraphernalia strewn around the house, then something is clearly wrong. A stable, responsible gun owner would not do this.
A stray, discharged bullet is not going to stop at a wall to allow you the time to debate the finer points of gun ownership. It is just going to keep on going until it runs out of energy to stop going. You should hope that you are not in between that end of the gun muzzle and that stop point. You are in harm's way.
Clear enough?
posted by lampshade at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
I would move, primarily so I wouldn't be crippled with anxiety every time I was in the house.
I don't want to scare you more than the situation already has, but you need to be aware that this person has no regard for your safety. And whatever their regard for themselves is - perhaps this will end tragically on their part - your lives are at risk.
Marshal all your communal resources, contact family if necessary for extra financial help or loans, contact the landlord immediately, and hole up somewhere else. You don't need to be in your new permanent home right away, but you do need you and your stuff to be safe.
Good luck.
posted by mdonley at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't want to scare you more than the situation already has, but you need to be aware that this person has no regard for your safety. And whatever their regard for themselves is - perhaps this will end tragically on their part - your lives are at risk.
Marshal all your communal resources, contact family if necessary for extra financial help or loans, contact the landlord immediately, and hole up somewhere else. You don't need to be in your new permanent home right away, but you do need you and your stuff to be safe.
Good luck.
posted by mdonley at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
(4) We may be overreacting to the situation entirely. We don't think our roommate is a bad person, just very misunderstood, and lacking in social skills and empathy. For all we know, maybe he's just living out the rest of the lease trying to limit his interactions with us because he doesn't want to be bothered. It's mostly scary knowing that with his personality, he could flip out at any moment. How can we approach him to ask him to get a gun safe and stop playing with his weapons in his room, without looking like we're all ganging up on him? What if he refuses to oblige, and we end up having to tell our landlord anyway? How do we keep ourselves safe from harm?But some simple advice here:
You don't want to frame it as "we hate the guns, and we hate you." If you think he's not a bad person, you want to give him a chance to make it right. You want to frame it in terms he can understand, and focus on your tangible priorities. For example: a gun safe is a tangible priority. "Stop playing with your weapons in your room" is not - but maybe "We would like you not to dry-fire in the house" could be, or "We would appreciate it if you would make sure guns are unloaded before working on, cleaning, or practicing movement with them."
You say he has at least one rifle, and several other guns. That means that he would need to get a long tall gun safe. I think your best bet is to offer to help him with this, and frame it as we-are-your-helpful-friends rather than you-are-shitty-at-guns. This could take many forms, from "Hey I just found a gun safe on craigslist! It looks really good!" to "Hey, we chipped in and bought you a gun safe." (Which is honestly what I think your best option is there, if you have the financial means to do so. It is certainly what I would do.
Before you do anything involving police/landlord, you may want to check the firearms laws in your state, and compare that to his guns. You may be sending your friend (and possibly yourself, depending on your state's laws) to jail.
Clarifying questions:
When you say "ammunition is all around", do you mean loose? In boxes or ammo cans? Out?
What do you want as an end state?
posted by corb at 8:57 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just to add: you're not overreacting. There are really a lot of things you learn in "gun safety culture" (even if you haven't taken a formal class) like: keep your gun in a secure place. Ammunition and guns are stored separately and nowhere near each other. Treat any gun like it's loaded. remove the magazine and open the action when giving the gun to someone else. Anyone who has picked up so much as an instruction manual has read these things, much less someone who supposedly is so concerned with "gun rights" that he spends time reading about, using, and buying guns.
It's not that your roommate doesn't know what a gun safe is and doesn't know where to buy one. He doesn't want one. I can't look into someone's soul, but it seems to me like his attitude is that "I'm above these petty rules, and the rules don't apply to me."
This is a Gift of Fear moment like RubyScarlet said. Your instincts are that "something is wrong about this situation." Your instincts are 100% correct.
posted by deanc at 9:14 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's not that your roommate doesn't know what a gun safe is and doesn't know where to buy one. He doesn't want one. I can't look into someone's soul, but it seems to me like his attitude is that "I'm above these petty rules, and the rules don't apply to me."
This is a Gift of Fear moment like RubyScarlet said. Your instincts are that "something is wrong about this situation." Your instincts are 100% correct.
posted by deanc at 9:14 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Mod note: Comments must include answers to the OPs question
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:22 AM on July 12, 2013
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:22 AM on July 12, 2013
I am fucking scared just reading this.
MOVE. I beg you.
posted by Salamander at 9:30 AM on July 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
MOVE. I beg you.
posted by Salamander at 9:30 AM on July 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think there was a mention that your roommates weren't able to leave at this time. What about pitching in togerher on a hotel room or hostel for the duration?
Also, whatever you do, document, document, document. Events, conversations, dates and times.
posted by windykites at 9:42 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, whatever you do, document, document, document. Events, conversations, dates and times.
posted by windykites at 9:42 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I didn't read all your question, I admit. I'm a staunch gun-owner, I love shooting, I love teaching shooting skills (and gun safety). reading just the first part of the question made me ill.
I really understand the urge not to "tattle" on someone, particularly to a landlord, and you're obviously walking on some scary eggshells with this person; but the penetrating power of a bullet (particularly a rifle, holy shit holy shit!) is a hell of a lot more than the movies would make you think, and can penetrate walls, doors, and all kinds of stuff. This is seriously dangerous stuff. "accidental misfire" is bullshit. obviously people have already covered this before, so I'm beating a dead horse, but I want to reiterate that this is bad news bears^10.
MOVE - my thought is that even if you stipulate how guns will be stored in the house, he can still take them out to "clean" them (or whatever the hell he's doing), fiddle with a scope, etc etc, so this only deals with part of the problem. this would probably be his wet dream fantasy of people coming to take his guns away. eviction similarly.
an old professor gave some extremely sage advice, when we were talking about some safety issues for our public health nursing-- humans are the only animals that talk themselves out of their gut feelings about safety.... trust your gut. What I'm trying to get across is that the acuity of this situation merits real concern and action for your safety.
You have an incredible window of opportunity here while this guy is gone, take advantage of it. surely there is somewhere you could put your stuff and stay for a while (I hope?).
posted by circle_b at 9:44 AM on July 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
I really understand the urge not to "tattle" on someone, particularly to a landlord, and you're obviously walking on some scary eggshells with this person; but the penetrating power of a bullet (particularly a rifle, holy shit holy shit!) is a hell of a lot more than the movies would make you think, and can penetrate walls, doors, and all kinds of stuff. This is seriously dangerous stuff. "accidental misfire" is bullshit. obviously people have already covered this before, so I'm beating a dead horse, but I want to reiterate that this is bad news bears^10.
MOVE - my thought is that even if you stipulate how guns will be stored in the house, he can still take them out to "clean" them (or whatever the hell he's doing), fiddle with a scope, etc etc, so this only deals with part of the problem. this would probably be his wet dream fantasy of people coming to take his guns away. eviction similarly.
an old professor gave some extremely sage advice, when we were talking about some safety issues for our public health nursing-- humans are the only animals that talk themselves out of their gut feelings about safety.... trust your gut. What I'm trying to get across is that the acuity of this situation merits real concern and action for your safety.
You have an incredible window of opportunity here while this guy is gone, take advantage of it. surely there is somewhere you could put your stuff and stay for a while (I hope?).
posted by circle_b at 9:44 AM on July 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
I'm a Libertarian, an Ayn Rand fan, and a hardcore gun nut and even I would get the landlord to kick this dude out ASAP!!! His behavior is beyond the pale and is not just misunderstandings due to him being socially awkward and/or having different ideological beliefs than you. Do whatever you gotta do to get him out of your life and protect yourself.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:48 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 9:48 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, don't wait to talk to the landlord. Call the landlord NOW and explain about your roommate shooting his gun inside the house (his "accidental misfire" excuse is total bullshit), his angry outbursts, and how you are afraid.
Seriously there is no way that gun gets fired in the house unless he's flagrantly violating basic gun safety rules. He was recklessly playing with them and there's no excuse for that.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:57 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Seriously there is no way that gun gets fired in the house unless he's flagrantly violating basic gun safety rules. He was recklessly playing with them and there's no excuse for that.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:57 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I am a site manager and if this happened at my complex, we would file a 24 hour eviction notice because that is a MAJOR lease violation, The state statute allows for 24 hour eviction notices for "acts outrageous in the extreme." However, I would have to evict all of you because I can't evict half a household except for some very specific cases (domestic violence) but perhaps your situation would fit under that umbrella.
posted by vespabelle at 10:10 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by vespabelle at 10:10 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
My employer has a violence prevention program and if I were in this situation I would probably call them first for advice. If you or your sane roommates work somewhere that has a special violence prevention program or even just a general employee assistance program, you might want to call them.
Also I would probably be rounding up all my friends and hiring movers if I can for an emergency move of my stuff into a storage unit as soon as possible, taking vacation days as needed to do so. Moving out is totally realistic and advisable.
posted by grouse at 10:11 AM on July 12, 2013
Also I would probably be rounding up all my friends and hiring movers if I can for an emergency move of my stuff into a storage unit as soon as possible, taking vacation days as needed to do so. Moving out is totally realistic and advisable.
posted by grouse at 10:11 AM on July 12, 2013
Depending on where you live, the dude is probably violating the laws of your legal jurisdiction. Some places have rules about how guns should be secured and stored (spoiler: not just laying around), and many/most places have rules about where you can discharging firearms legally, and that generally doesn't include an occupied dwelling surrounded by other occupied dwellings. You might want to inquire with someone who is familiar with the laws where you live - either in the abstract, or in the specific. If you're not comfortable calling the cops about this, you might want to talk to the folks at a local gun shop or shooting range and ask them about it. (not, like, the gun department of wal-mart.)
I think the issue to talk to your landlord about is not his (lack of) gun storage, but the fact that HE NEGLIGENTLY DISCHARGED A FIREARM IN THE HOUSE. (There's no such thing as "accidental", as Tanizaki says. It was "NEGLIGENT.")
Regardless, he's ABSOLUTELY violating the laws of sanity, not to mention the rules of responsible gun ownership. I would not consider the place you're living a safe environment. Not because the guns are laying around but because the person wielding them is a fucking dipshit who can't correctly control his weapon.
posted by rmd1023 at 10:30 AM on July 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think the issue to talk to your landlord about is not his (lack of) gun storage, but the fact that HE NEGLIGENTLY DISCHARGED A FIREARM IN THE HOUSE. (There's no such thing as "accidental", as Tanizaki says. It was "NEGLIGENT.")
Regardless, he's ABSOLUTELY violating the laws of sanity, not to mention the rules of responsible gun ownership. I would not consider the place you're living a safe environment. Not because the guns are laying around but because the person wielding them is a fucking dipshit who can't correctly control his weapon.
posted by rmd1023 at 10:30 AM on July 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
(Just to be clear - the other behavior is worrying, but negligently shooting the gun is a clear act that cannot be confused for any kind of 'i say/you say' inter-roommate social issues, so that's what you should talk to the landlord about.)
posted by rmd1023 at 10:31 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 10:31 AM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Count me in as another person who thinks you're not overreacting and that you and your roommates should not be there when this guy gets back. Get yourselves, and if possible the stuff that's important to you, out of there. Do it right now in case he comes back earlier than expected. Yes, it sucks, and you shouldn't have to do it, but your lives are being endangered by this guy. Listen to all the gun owners above who are all unanimously saying they're appalled by his irresponsibility. Because he is difficult to confront safely, is time for others with more authority to deal with him.
amanda: Secondly, drywall ain't Kevlar.
Repeat this to yourself till you believe it. There was a tragic incident a couple of years ago in Alberta where one night some bored kids decided to shoot at a house in their neighbourhood. Of the two bullets they fired at the house, one penetrated the exterior wall and the skull of the five year old child sleeping on the other side of it. He died from the bullet wound.
If your roommate's negligently fired bullet had gone through a wall, it could have killed any one of you even though you were in another room.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:34 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
amanda: Secondly, drywall ain't Kevlar.
Repeat this to yourself till you believe it. There was a tragic incident a couple of years ago in Alberta where one night some bored kids decided to shoot at a house in their neighbourhood. Of the two bullets they fired at the house, one penetrated the exterior wall and the skull of the five year old child sleeping on the other side of it. He died from the bullet wound.
If your roommate's negligently fired bullet had gone through a wall, it could have killed any one of you even though you were in another room.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:34 AM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think you're getting enough safety advice, so as another aspect to the "should we tell the landlord or hush it up" portion of your question I'll ask: where did the bullet go? Presumably there is a bullet-shaped hole in the floor, ceiling or (at least one) wall - unless it was stopped by a giant oaken desk or something. Besides the hole, there could be electrical, plumbing or other structural damage (for example if he shot a hole through to the outside, there is now an avenue for pests to enter, or water/moisture build up). If you just ride it out and the roommate moves out you all are on the hook if damage is found somewhere down the line.
posted by mikepop at 10:51 AM on July 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by mikepop at 10:51 AM on July 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
This is not a good situation. You and your roomies need to be out of there.
If I were your landlord and knew that there were unsecured guns and ammunition in the apartment, I would be concerned. If I knew that behaviors culminating in a negligent discharge had occurred, and that the incident hadn't been reported, I'd be livid.
Tell the landlord what's been going on, and then you all need to GTFO.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:27 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
If I were your landlord and knew that there were unsecured guns and ammunition in the apartment, I would be concerned. If I knew that behaviors culminating in a negligent discharge had occurred, and that the incident hadn't been reported, I'd be livid.
Tell the landlord what's been going on, and then you all need to GTFO.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:27 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
All I Know is in NY an accidental misfire is a police matter. They would get their license revoked for a whole mess of years and all guns taken away.
posted by majortom1981 at 11:38 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by majortom1981 at 11:38 AM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
generally firing a gun inside the city limits not at a range and not in defense of one's person is a misdemeanor. Check your city code.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:13 PM on July 12, 2013
posted by Ironmouth at 12:13 PM on July 12, 2013
Given the circumstances, I'm wondering whether your roommate attempted suicide?
If I felt 100% comfortable with bringing something difficult up with the roomie, I would tell roomie that all of you are at risk of eviction due to the gun incident unless he leaves ASAP. I would ask him if he is willing to leave.
It sounds like this is not the case here though. Find a safe place and then figure out your next steps.
posted by zippy at 12:13 PM on July 12, 2013
If I felt 100% comfortable with bringing something difficult up with the roomie, I would tell roomie that all of you are at risk of eviction due to the gun incident unless he leaves ASAP. I would ask him if he is willing to leave.
It sounds like this is not the case here though. Find a safe place and then figure out your next steps.
posted by zippy at 12:13 PM on July 12, 2013
It is called "unlawful discharge." It is quite possible that the firing of the weapon is a criminal act. I'd call the local state's attorney or city attorney. If you tell me your jurisdiction, I can look it up and post it here.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:14 PM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Ironmouth at 12:14 PM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I dated a guy (briefly) who negligently misfired a weapon and shot himself in the leg. It's a felony in some states, so it might be possible to get the police involved if you feel like you're in imminent danger. I think the better idea would be to just get your stuff together and GTFO, do whatever you have to do, and while you're packing call and let the landlord know what's going on. Unfortunately I've been in that situation as well, having to GTFO of a place, and in my state we were able to write a legal letter to the landlords and stopped paying rent as soon as we moved out - IANAL but you might check into your options. I feel like the law is probably on your side in this case if you're worried about having to pay rent after you GTFO, but your landlords will hopefully work with you.
I would probably let the landlord handle any police activity, but this guy seems like a danger to the neighbors and anyone else in the building.
For the record, I think your feelings are spot on about this roommate and are not irrational at all. With the guy I dated I kept thinking I was being too harsh because him having shot himself was always in the back of my mind, but accidentally firing a weapon is not something most people/gun owners do! When I read this question I seriously wondered if it's the guy I dated.
posted by fromageball at 12:38 PM on July 12, 2013
I would probably let the landlord handle any police activity, but this guy seems like a danger to the neighbors and anyone else in the building.
For the record, I think your feelings are spot on about this roommate and are not irrational at all. With the guy I dated I kept thinking I was being too harsh because him having shot himself was always in the back of my mind, but accidentally firing a weapon is not something most people/gun owners do! When I read this question I seriously wondered if it's the guy I dated.
posted by fromageball at 12:38 PM on July 12, 2013
I hate to say it, but you all need to move out permanently. Moving out while he's away, getting him evicted and then moving back in is going to make him pretty mad. And at that point, well... he knows where you live.
posted by lovelygirl at 1:01 PM on July 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by lovelygirl at 1:01 PM on July 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
DTMFA... oh wait, wrong thread, but similar answer. Seriously, your fear is founded and moving out makes a lot of sense.
posted by dgran at 1:07 PM on July 12, 2013
posted by dgran at 1:07 PM on July 12, 2013
Please report this to authorities. You don't want this guy to become the next Jared Loughner and you did nothing to stop it.
posted by rikschell at 2:04 PM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 2:04 PM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
When my Grandpa accidentally fired his gun (or negligently, if you prefer), my mom called the cops. Why? Because he was being unsafe with his guns and someone could die, including him. Them's the rules — you can have guns if you're responsible with them. But if someone gives you an indication that they are not safe with firearms, that means that they could inadvertently kill you or someone else.
Call the cops. Move out if you can.
posted by klangklangston at 2:30 PM on July 12, 2013
Call the cops. Move out if you can.
posted by klangklangston at 2:30 PM on July 12, 2013
I am broke as all hell, and you couldn't pay me any amount of money to live in that house. Call the cops, keep yourself safe, and get the hell out as soon as you can.
posted by Space Kitty at 5:51 PM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Space Kitty at 5:51 PM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'd say this might be a plan to consider:
1. Each of you separately or collectively make backup plans for a place to live in the short term (such as with family or friends, or together in a furnished hotel suite.) This way you'll have a place to go if needed, until the lease expires.
2. Together, find out how much a decent large gun safe costs.
3. Confront him as a group (without his guns) and advise him that, given his recent negligent discharge and generally half-assed respect for gun safety, none of you are comfortable with his guns in the house. Advise that you're collectively buying him the gift of a gun safe that he can take with him when he moves out after the lease ends, but that all of his guns and ammo have to remain inside the gun safe in a shared area of the apartment for the duration, and he doesn't get combination/key privileges.
If he accepts that, great, follow through immediately. If he doesn't accept that, notify the landlord and the local police department, secure your belongings in your rooms or whatnot, and use your backup plans.
posted by davejay at 6:39 PM on July 12, 2013
1. Each of you separately or collectively make backup plans for a place to live in the short term (such as with family or friends, or together in a furnished hotel suite.) This way you'll have a place to go if needed, until the lease expires.
2. Together, find out how much a decent large gun safe costs.
3. Confront him as a group (without his guns) and advise him that, given his recent negligent discharge and generally half-assed respect for gun safety, none of you are comfortable with his guns in the house. Advise that you're collectively buying him the gift of a gun safe that he can take with him when he moves out after the lease ends, but that all of his guns and ammo have to remain inside the gun safe in a shared area of the apartment for the duration, and he doesn't get combination/key privileges.
If he accepts that, great, follow through immediately. If he doesn't accept that, notify the landlord and the local police department, secure your belongings in your rooms or whatnot, and use your backup plans.
posted by davejay at 6:39 PM on July 12, 2013
i think you should call the police immediately and ask them to advise you on how to handle this in the best way. while my instinct is to say to move while he's gone i would be worried that if he comes back to an empty house where all of you have cleared out he may go berserk and try to come after you. it might be better to let him know you are moving out so he isn't surprised but i really don't know. that is why i'd say call the police before doing anything and ask for their help.
posted by wildflower at 6:41 PM on July 12, 2013
posted by wildflower at 6:41 PM on July 12, 2013
If you're in the Minneapolis area and you or your roommates need a place to stay while you regroup, I have a spare bedroom and enough floor space to store boxes.
posted by SemiSophos at 6:59 PM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by SemiSophos at 6:59 PM on July 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
It seems like you're bending over backwards to give the benefit of the doubt to this person, and I think that's very nice of you. That being said, I think there's a line and I think he's way past it.
Even before the negligent discharge incident, I would call the things he has been doing negligent as well as rude -- that last maybe being secondary to the possibility of being shot, but you deserve to be treated well by your roommate and strewing guns around in front of people who are not educated about them and comfortable with them is not treating them well.
I would also say that the distinction between "quirky person with offbeat political views who is being swept along by the tide of increased activity in the gun community over the past several months" and "nutter who is headed inexorably for trouble" hinges on the sort of context that only comes from interacting with him -- and all the people who interact with him, it seems, you and the other roommates and the coworkers, seem to be dancing around this matter of "well maybe he's just misunderstood but you know I kind of fear for my life". I'd listen to that voice, if I were you. You might want to read the book The Gift Of Fear -- it's a good read regardless, but it also pertains precisely to this sort of situation.
Beyond that, negligently discharging a firearm is a thing that Must Not Happen, doing it in a way that the bullet goes in some unknown and unsafe direction is another Never Event on top of that, and being dismissive about the event afterward is an additional layer of unacceptable on this rather tall cake of unacceptable.
I'm a gun owner myself, and a quirky one, and one who is more than a little burned out about regulations and about jumping to hyperbolic conclusions about gun folks. Given the set of events you describe, I would bail instantly for my own safety, so as not to get caught up in his drama, and because I would consider it negligent of myself to have him around my guns. That's the degree to which he's out of line.
I don't think you need to feel at all unreasonable about involving the landlord and the police. Among other things, the negligent discharge itself is illegal pretty much everywhere and depending on your area there may be other problems on top of that. At a minimum I'd keep the appointment with the landlord (I'd actually feel obligated to tell them given that "Skippy is negligently discharging firearms on your property" is so highly relevant to their interests) and move out with dispatch.
posted by sparktinker at 7:15 PM on July 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
Even before the negligent discharge incident, I would call the things he has been doing negligent as well as rude -- that last maybe being secondary to the possibility of being shot, but you deserve to be treated well by your roommate and strewing guns around in front of people who are not educated about them and comfortable with them is not treating them well.
I would also say that the distinction between "quirky person with offbeat political views who is being swept along by the tide of increased activity in the gun community over the past several months" and "nutter who is headed inexorably for trouble" hinges on the sort of context that only comes from interacting with him -- and all the people who interact with him, it seems, you and the other roommates and the coworkers, seem to be dancing around this matter of "well maybe he's just misunderstood but you know I kind of fear for my life". I'd listen to that voice, if I were you. You might want to read the book The Gift Of Fear -- it's a good read regardless, but it also pertains precisely to this sort of situation.
Beyond that, negligently discharging a firearm is a thing that Must Not Happen, doing it in a way that the bullet goes in some unknown and unsafe direction is another Never Event on top of that, and being dismissive about the event afterward is an additional layer of unacceptable on this rather tall cake of unacceptable.
I'm a gun owner myself, and a quirky one, and one who is more than a little burned out about regulations and about jumping to hyperbolic conclusions about gun folks. Given the set of events you describe, I would bail instantly for my own safety, so as not to get caught up in his drama, and because I would consider it negligent of myself to have him around my guns. That's the degree to which he's out of line.
I don't think you need to feel at all unreasonable about involving the landlord and the police. Among other things, the negligent discharge itself is illegal pretty much everywhere and depending on your area there may be other problems on top of that. At a minimum I'd keep the appointment with the landlord (I'd actually feel obligated to tell them given that "Skippy is negligently discharging firearms on your property" is so highly relevant to their interests) and move out with dispatch.
posted by sparktinker at 7:15 PM on July 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
You need to make a unilateral "no firearms on the premises" policy* that is binding on all residents. You need to inform your roommate of this and tell him that it's him or the guns.
I've seen people kicked out of living situations for way less, whether their thing is strictly legal in your jurisdiction or not. Someone doesn't have to be a murderous criminal to get kicked out of a shared house. You have every right to ask him to leave and shouldn't need to involve the landlord or have him formally evicted at all unless he refuses to store the guns elsewhere or move.
It doesn't matter whether your roommate lacks social skills or empathy. "No guns in the house" is a completely rational rule to have, and the circumstances that are going on right now are ample justification for such a rule.
*Note - if the rest of you have firearms on the premises but store them more responsibly, you'll have to come up with your own best phrasing for what you'd like to see happen in the apartment.
posted by Sara C. at 7:24 PM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've seen people kicked out of living situations for way less, whether their thing is strictly legal in your jurisdiction or not. Someone doesn't have to be a murderous criminal to get kicked out of a shared house. You have every right to ask him to leave and shouldn't need to involve the landlord or have him formally evicted at all unless he refuses to store the guns elsewhere or move.
It doesn't matter whether your roommate lacks social skills or empathy. "No guns in the house" is a completely rational rule to have, and the circumstances that are going on right now are ample justification for such a rule.
*Note - if the rest of you have firearms on the premises but store them more responsibly, you'll have to come up with your own best phrasing for what you'd like to see happen in the apartment.
posted by Sara C. at 7:24 PM on July 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I guess I'm the only one who sees it this way, but I doubt that it was a negligent discharge at all. I think he's been very quietly manipulating you all into a state of cold fear for some time, since you describe an escalation of his gun-related behavior at the same time as he's become more antisocial with his housemates. He's made sure you all understand that he's obsessed with his guns, with the power that guns give him, and he's the "alpha male" of the household, right? Well, I don't think he accidentally fired that gun, at all - I think he fired it deliberately because 1) he just HAD to fire something - now, and 2) he knew it would scare the living bejesus out of the rest of you. If he'd truly accidentally fired a weapon, it wouldn't have been a .22 - he would have been playing with much bigger toys than that, certainly if he's been showing off his assault weapon. No, firing that gun was intentional.
Then he promptly left town for a week, so you can all discuss this and figure out what to do about the crazy you have living with you. He's already thought about all the angles you're thinking about right now and he just wonders which one you'll choose.
I'd do a couple of things for sure: I'd be certain that the landlord knew about this immediately, and I'd include him in the discussion of how to handle the situation. I'd also make certain the police know about his escalating obsession with guns and the parallel withdrawal from social interaction with the rest of you. But - before I told the police, I think I might try for an "inspection" of some kind - maybe by the landlord, or by some housing authority, whatever. Maybe fake a plumbing leak that had to be repaired at once and the landlord accompanied the plumber to the house, where he spotted all the guns and blew his top, or something like that. Use your imagination and see if you can come up with a way for the landlord or the police to "just by accident" stumble over the guns and ammo; it would never work with the police, I don't think, but maybe you and the landlord can come up with something.
Thinking just for myself, I'd be more afraid of him if he knew I'd had anything to do with getting him in trouble than I would be of just living with him for another few weeks if that's all the time you have left before the lease is up and he leaves. But if your intuition tells you that he's heading for an explosion of some kind (does he have anywhere to go when the lease is up? Problems there?) - then get the heck out immediately. And then - do tell the police, but get safe first.
Shudder.
posted by aryma at 11:50 PM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Then he promptly left town for a week, so you can all discuss this and figure out what to do about the crazy you have living with you. He's already thought about all the angles you're thinking about right now and he just wonders which one you'll choose.
I'd do a couple of things for sure: I'd be certain that the landlord knew about this immediately, and I'd include him in the discussion of how to handle the situation. I'd also make certain the police know about his escalating obsession with guns and the parallel withdrawal from social interaction with the rest of you. But - before I told the police, I think I might try for an "inspection" of some kind - maybe by the landlord, or by some housing authority, whatever. Maybe fake a plumbing leak that had to be repaired at once and the landlord accompanied the plumber to the house, where he spotted all the guns and blew his top, or something like that. Use your imagination and see if you can come up with a way for the landlord or the police to "just by accident" stumble over the guns and ammo; it would never work with the police, I don't think, but maybe you and the landlord can come up with something.
Thinking just for myself, I'd be more afraid of him if he knew I'd had anything to do with getting him in trouble than I would be of just living with him for another few weeks if that's all the time you have left before the lease is up and he leaves. But if your intuition tells you that he's heading for an explosion of some kind (does he have anywhere to go when the lease is up? Problems there?) - then get the heck out immediately. And then - do tell the police, but get safe first.
Shudder.
posted by aryma at 11:50 PM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
To follow up on aryma's suggestion of getting the landlord in for some sort of inspection: there is currently a bullet hole somewhere in that room..... it will obviously need to be repaired before the lease is up if anyone expects to get *anything* back from the security deposit. Ask the landlord to come in to talk about that bullet-hole repair, at which point you can also let him know the extant of your roommate's gun collection and ask for advice.
posted by easily confused at 2:50 AM on July 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 2:50 AM on July 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
You have literally dodged a bullet. You are risking your life by staying there. Tell your roommates (except the gun guy) the steps listed below that you are going to follow so they won't be blindsided. No matter what your other roommates decide to do, you need to get out of there for your own safety. Here is what I would do, listed in order:
1) Move yourself and and all of your stuff out, preferably before he comes back. Make whatever plausible excuse you have to, if you have to make one. Don't antagonize the guy. Stay with friends or family members until you can make permanent arrangements. Explain to your friends/family members why you're scared for your life, and it's only temporary. If they have the ability to help you but refuse, reconsider your friendship. Christ, we're literally talking about risks to your life here, after all.
2) Contact the local police and tell them your roommate negligently discharged a firearm in the house, has been amassing firearms, treats the firearms in an unsafe and irresponsible manner, and how he has been acting. What if you do nothing and someone else is hurt by this guy? SOMEONE has to do something, what if an innocent person is killed while everyone is waiting for someone else to act?
3) Tell your landlord the same things you told the police.
4) Rent a PO Box, get a change of address kit from the post office.
5) Pray that you never see this guy again, because he's an unstable person with weapons who may seek revenge.
Watching this YouTube video of what an assault rifle can do to SOLID cinder-blocks may help you realize just how lucky you were and why you need to act. I wish the very best for you and your roommates.
posted by Daddy-O at 5:04 AM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
1) Move yourself and and all of your stuff out, preferably before he comes back. Make whatever plausible excuse you have to, if you have to make one. Don't antagonize the guy. Stay with friends or family members until you can make permanent arrangements. Explain to your friends/family members why you're scared for your life, and it's only temporary. If they have the ability to help you but refuse, reconsider your friendship. Christ, we're literally talking about risks to your life here, after all.
2) Contact the local police and tell them your roommate negligently discharged a firearm in the house, has been amassing firearms, treats the firearms in an unsafe and irresponsible manner, and how he has been acting. What if you do nothing and someone else is hurt by this guy? SOMEONE has to do something, what if an innocent person is killed while everyone is waiting for someone else to act?
3) Tell your landlord the same things you told the police.
4) Rent a PO Box, get a change of address kit from the post office.
5) Pray that you never see this guy again, because he's an unstable person with weapons who may seek revenge.
Watching this YouTube video of what an assault rifle can do to SOLID cinder-blocks may help you realize just how lucky you were and why you need to act. I wish the very best for you and your roommates.
posted by Daddy-O at 5:04 AM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
an addendum to my previous comment - many leases/rental agreements have specific language in them that discuss eviction for illegal acts on the premises. If yours does, then focusing on the (probably illegal) negligent discharge of a firearm can give the landlord a clear path to getting the guy out of the apartment.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:16 PM on July 13, 2013
posted by rmd1023 at 12:16 PM on July 13, 2013
I think aryma's comment provides a plausible read on your roommate's motives for leaving his guns and ammunition lying around, which only makes me x100 my previous comment urging you and your other roommates to move out before he gets back. However, even if he's just really careless and ignorant of gun safety, after watching the assault rifle video Daddy-O linked, I still think you still need to get out ASAP and inform the police and your landlord for your neighbours' sake...what if he has another "accident" but this time with his new assault rifle?
[When you have a safe resolution] could you please, please update the thread to let us know you are OK?? I'm quite worried for you.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:34 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
[When you have a safe resolution] could you please, please update the thread to let us know you are OK?? I'm quite worried for you.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:34 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
Your local domestic violence shelter or hotline should have advice on how to move everyone out safely on short notice and protect yourselves (as much as possible) from retaliation if/when you choose to report him to the landlord and the police. I would not want to continue living at that address if I were you, even if he leaves amicably when the lease is up.
posted by Drop Daedalus at 2:04 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Drop Daedalus at 2:04 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Here is a followup from the OP:
I just wanted to respond to all the thoughtful and caring MeFites who took the time to read my post and advise on my situation, and let everyone know that I am safe. It means SO MUCH to me (much more than I describe in words) how many of you care, and I am overwhelmed by the love and support each and every one of you have shown me. I can't thank you all enough.posted by LobsterMitten at 8:24 AM on July 14, 2013 [26 favorites]
=========================================
An update on my status:
(1) I called the police (non-emergency call). The operators talked me through the situation, and told me that the first thing ANY of us should have done was call 911. My friend should have called immediately after he heard the gunshot. They dispatched two officers to my residence later that day. I noticed that the people who would corroborate the story of my roommate with me suddenly had cold feet and looked flustered, but I was firm in telling them that I had made my decision and felt this was absolutely the right thing to do. I was tired of wavering, and arguing in circles with my other roommates as how to proceed, and could not deal with the anxiety of waiting to see what would happen. I told my roommates that a situation like this was EXACTLY what the police are for, despite how inexperienced I was in matters like these. I made an executive decision and stood by it.
One of my other roommates, my friend, and I spoke with two officers who were both very friendly and patient with us, and allowed us to completely voice our concerns. Unfortunately, based on our accounts alone, there isn't anything legally they can do right now - they can't run a sweep for the bullet or bullet hole, nor could they confiscate the weapons in the house even if they were here. They ran a background check on our roommate and found that he's clean. Also, in the state we live in (surprisingly), he is legally and constitutionally allowed to own the guns, even the rifle, without permits or registration. I don't think he even needed a background check for the weapons he bought, and from what I know of my roommate, he has protested against universal background checks. He seems to have done enough research to acquire his weapons without breaking any rules. Sadly, until he does something, the police cannot do anything. Our meeting with the police will be on oral record, but our roommate will not know about it.
(2) I met with my landlord(s). They were extremely supportive. They were just as alarmed and concerned as we were, and spent some time brainstorming with us about strategies to deal with our roommate as safely and non-confrontationally as possible. We looked through the lease and could not find any stipulation on firearms, which means our landlords cannot evict our roommate on the basis of owning firearms, and if they did, they would lose in court. Furthermore, in our state, tenants have more say than the landlords do, so from a legal standpoint, things could get messy and complicated. They cannot legally enter his room without his permission, so again, they will not be able to gather evidence.
The first thing they will do is speak with their attorney on Monday. Best case scenario, they are able to have our roommate leave on his own accord before the lease expires. If there is no better option, they will let him stay for the remainder of the lease if he chooses, but he will not able to rent from them ever again.
Meanwhile, the rest of us are free to go. Our landlords will not charge us rent for the next month, and will return our portions of the deposit. They even discussed alternative housing situations with us -- rooms available for rent elsewhere or temporary housing in another part of town. Our safety is their biggest concern. It was very comforting having their trust.
(3) I have moved out. I have already packed and relocated 85% of my belongings to a friend's house, where I will be staying temporarily while I search for rooms/sublets. The only remaining possessions in my previous residence are furniture, perishable + nonperishable food, and a few boxes of stuff. With my landlord's help, I will have everything off the property by today, well before my roommate returns.
===========================================
I will admit, there was a numbing sense of calm after meeting with the police. The officers were incredibly gracious while we gave them our account, but I couldn't help but feel like our story seemed overblown, no matter how much detail we provided. I felt like I could see myself in the third-person flapping my arms and sighing exasperatedly, fishing for as much information as I could give the officers, while they looked and nodded understandingly. I felt silly, and felt as though my roommate and the house weren't as dangerous as my roommates and I made it out to be.
I was also partially swayed by some of my friends who told me I was overreacting, that my roommate won't actually do anything, and that I could probably stay in the house for the remainder of the lease. They told me it was my choice, though. They also told me that I need to be more resolute in making decisions, and stop leaning too heavily on the opinions of others (including the Internet, which means you guys). Of course, they're right that I need to be more decisive and comfortable with the choices I make, and that I should not get so caught up overloading myself with info that I paralyze myself and delay action. I consulted my family, friends, and you all on MetaFilter because I wanted to make the most informed decision I could, and not make a decision I would regret and have people wonder why I didn't talk to them first.
This was not an easy, black-and-white decision at all. I found myself pacing around, pondering all the possible outcomes, getting paranoid (it's unbelievable and somewhat eerie how many of the thoughts you on the Green have shared that I had already considered before seeing your responses to my post... it kind of confirmed to me that I'm not so crazy after all, or that we're ALL crazy), thinking of the right sequence to do things in, and not changing my mind once I had made a decision whether others liked it or not. If there was ever an experience I have learned from but would NEVER want to repeat again, it would be the whole series of events that has transpired this week. This week was one of the most hectic, nerve-wracking weeks in my life, due to the nature of the situation, the timing of the situation, and the emotional highs and lows of the week. Things worth celebrating this week coincided with this whole panicky and dangerous ordeal, and it was extremely difficult reconciling those feelings. I still feel like I'm being melodramatic in some ways, but I have never felt more right about overreacting than I have this week. I'd rather have the opportunity to overreact than not to be able to react at all.
While I still have 15% of my stuff to collect (and mail to redirect, possibly already on its way), I've learned a LOT from this experience, and again, I cannot thank each and every one of you enough for your well-wishes, advice, and support. You guys are awesome, and you are all why I love this community.
I will update everyone when the situation has been completely resolved. Until then, please feel free to offer any suggestions you have as far as continuing from here and protecting myself in the coming weeks/months.
Thank you all so, SO much!
Your landlords sound like great people, and I'm so glad that you're safe. Good luck.
posted by jetlagaddict at 9:02 AM on July 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 9:02 AM on July 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
Thank you for updating, OP. I'm glad you're safe.
posted by windykites at 10:14 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by windykites at 10:14 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your landlord sounds awesome, and if they've got something available, I'd recommend renting from them again.
You didn't over-react: you had a possible loon collecting guns he doesn't know how to properly handle or store living in the same house as you: and those are obviously loaded weapons he's playing with, at that. Sure, I can see how you felt like a fool in front of the police, but I assure you you didn't sound like a fool to them --- they'd far rather talk to you now than have to come by after something awful happened: prevention is much easier on everybody than picking up the pieces afterwards.
(Just yesterday I was reading about a guy in Oregon who used a loaded assault rifle as a crutch (!) to help him stand up from his couch: the weapon was loaded, and fired a round through the ceiling into the apartment upstairs, striking a sleeping 5-year-old girl in the head and killing her..... he's now on bail awaiting trial. I mention this only to emphasize: you did right calling the police, and you 100x did right to get the heck out of there.)
Good luck going forwards!
posted by easily confused at 11:15 AM on July 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
You didn't over-react: you had a possible loon collecting guns he doesn't know how to properly handle or store living in the same house as you: and those are obviously loaded weapons he's playing with, at that. Sure, I can see how you felt like a fool in front of the police, but I assure you you didn't sound like a fool to them --- they'd far rather talk to you now than have to come by after something awful happened: prevention is much easier on everybody than picking up the pieces afterwards.
(Just yesterday I was reading about a guy in Oregon who used a loaded assault rifle as a crutch (!) to help him stand up from his couch: the weapon was loaded, and fired a round through the ceiling into the apartment upstairs, striking a sleeping 5-year-old girl in the head and killing her..... he's now on bail awaiting trial. I mention this only to emphasize: you did right calling the police, and you 100x did right to get the heck out of there.)
Good luck going forwards!
posted by easily confused at 11:15 AM on July 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
I am so glad you're out and safe! It sounds like you handled very well--your other roommates are lucky you took charge the way you did.
Also, your landlords sound like good, conscientious people.
I want to assure you that you didn't overreact. The police were calm because it's their job to be calm and reassuring to you. They now have a reason to keep an eye on this guy. After all, they did say the first thing that should've happened after the gunshot was a 911 call, so you were right to act as you did.
Take care and here's to a much more safe and restful new home!
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:55 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, your landlords sound like good, conscientious people.
I want to assure you that you didn't overreact. The police were calm because it's their job to be calm and reassuring to you. They now have a reason to keep an eye on this guy. After all, they did say the first thing that should've happened after the gunshot was a 911 call, so you were right to act as you did.
Take care and here's to a much more safe and restful new home!
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:55 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
So glad you are out and safe, OP. I've been watching the thread and hoping you would post a follow up.
posted by bunderful at 12:05 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by bunderful at 12:05 PM on July 14, 2013
To be clear, when I said that I probably wouldn't move out right away, I meant right away without talking to cops or landlord. Your landlord's reaction is pretty much the awesomest landlord reaction I've ever heard, and I would have totally taken them up on that offer to move out ASAP!
posted by desuetude at 12:12 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by desuetude at 12:12 PM on July 14, 2013
If you were overreacting, why did the police say you should have called 911? 911 is not a helpline for neurotics who want to vent, it is an emergency number for people who are in imminent danger.
I am late to this, but my considered, dispassionate opinion - and I say this as someone who enjoys guns - ZOMG HE FIRED A WEAPON IN YOUR HOUSE OH MY FUCKING FUCK.
YOU WERE IN A LIFE-THREATENING SITUATION EVERY MINUTE YOU SPENT THERE.
ANYONE WHO EVEN REMOTELY SUGGESTS OTHERWISE IS SHOWING EXTREMELY BAD JUDGEMENT.
COVER YOUR TRACKS SO THE CRAZED GUNMAN CAN'T FIND YOU.
Many people you have thus far consulted seem to have a merry attitude towards extreme personal danger, perhaps influenced by television. A .22 can kill you from a mile away, and bullets can go through walls and kill someone on the other side. Having somebody discharge a firearm *in your house* is like... Well, I can't think of an appropriate simile for it, because that's the epitome of extreme personal danger.
How about this, which was in a safety video I got during training a few years ago (sadly, no citation, but not a thing in it is beyond belief): the schoolteachers who saw flames and smelled smoke, so they discussed it among themselves, then, went to the office to consult some other teachers, who discussed it a while longer and then decided to go and talk it over with more teachers. While they were deciding what to do, of course the school burned down, killing everybody including them. It's typical for people to respond to emergencies like this, because of course people would rather be dead than "neurotic" or "overreacting" or whatever.
I am glad you are in a safe place now. I am glad I didn't look at this two days ago because my nerves would have been quivering on your behalf ever since. Please, I urge you, the next time you sense that you're in a life-threatening situation, stick to your... ahem... guns... and let the cool kids go to hell their own way.
posted by tel3path at 12:19 PM on July 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
I am late to this, but my considered, dispassionate opinion - and I say this as someone who enjoys guns - ZOMG HE FIRED A WEAPON IN YOUR HOUSE OH MY FUCKING FUCK.
YOU WERE IN A LIFE-THREATENING SITUATION EVERY MINUTE YOU SPENT THERE.
ANYONE WHO EVEN REMOTELY SUGGESTS OTHERWISE IS SHOWING EXTREMELY BAD JUDGEMENT.
COVER YOUR TRACKS SO THE CRAZED GUNMAN CAN'T FIND YOU.
Many people you have thus far consulted seem to have a merry attitude towards extreme personal danger, perhaps influenced by television. A .22 can kill you from a mile away, and bullets can go through walls and kill someone on the other side. Having somebody discharge a firearm *in your house* is like... Well, I can't think of an appropriate simile for it, because that's the epitome of extreme personal danger.
How about this, which was in a safety video I got during training a few years ago (sadly, no citation, but not a thing in it is beyond belief): the schoolteachers who saw flames and smelled smoke, so they discussed it among themselves, then, went to the office to consult some other teachers, who discussed it a while longer and then decided to go and talk it over with more teachers. While they were deciding what to do, of course the school burned down, killing everybody including them. It's typical for people to respond to emergencies like this, because of course people would rather be dead than "neurotic" or "overreacting" or whatever.
I am glad you are in a safe place now. I am glad I didn't look at this two days ago because my nerves would have been quivering on your behalf ever since. Please, I urge you, the next time you sense that you're in a life-threatening situation, stick to your... ahem... guns... and let the cool kids go to hell their own way.
posted by tel3path at 12:19 PM on July 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
I am so glad you're out of there, and with so much support from your landlord. Bullets don't have names on them, and walls barely slow them down.
posted by Daddy-O at 12:36 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Daddy-O at 12:36 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
OP, I, too, am glad you're out of there. That situation was bad news. And major props to your landlords for being caring human beings. Thank you for updating.
posted by gauche at 1:30 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by gauche at 1:30 PM on July 14, 2013
I'm glad you're out. If he planned to leave at the end of the lease, and now the landlords plan to have him leave at the end of the lease, it sounds like that is the best solution.
When you say your landlord will not charge you rent, though, do you mean "this guy is going to be on the hook for all of your rent", or "he will only be responsible for his portion"? Because I could see that affecting things.
posted by corb at 2:34 PM on July 14, 2013
When you say your landlord will not charge you rent, though, do you mean "this guy is going to be on the hook for all of your rent", or "he will only be responsible for his portion"? Because I could see that affecting things.
posted by corb at 2:34 PM on July 14, 2013
Oh, excellent news. Glad you're okay and out of there.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:25 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by rmd1023 at 4:25 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Thank you for the update, I was worried about you!
You made the exact right decision for you and I'm glad that you and your roommates are out. Your landlord sounds EXCELLENT and if you can, rent from him again, his priorities are in exactly the right place.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:23 PM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
You made the exact right decision for you and I'm glad that you and your roommates are out. Your landlord sounds EXCELLENT and if you can, rent from him again, his priorities are in exactly the right place.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:23 PM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
What happened to the other roommates? Did they stay or go?
posted by cnc at 1:56 PM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by cnc at 1:56 PM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Glad to hear you are out and safe and that your landlord was a good guy in this situation.
posted by vespabelle at 2:48 PM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by vespabelle at 2:48 PM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jquinby at 6:04 AM on July 12, 2013 [22 favorites]