I want to go back to school for Medicine. I'm 35.
July 1, 2013 11:18 AM Subscribe
I can't find a job in my industry now for four months, which has pushed me to limits of madness. I am kind of tired of my chosen industry, and I have been considering going back to school to utilize my skills as a Lighting expert to get a degree in Optometry.
I have a wife who can work, but her training is Canadian and her monthly tops off at around $1500.
Is it possible to go back to school for 4 years and live as a 35 year old? Where should I start?
Some pertinent information:
* I have an MFA and a BA, both in Lighting Design.
* I'm a recognized lighting expert in my field, but jobs are nil.
* I have $50,000 in student loans still from my previous education, which I was able to get an Economic Hardship forbearance for a handful of months while I'm out of work.
It's possible that we can move back to Canada and I could become a citizen (my wife is here and visiting, technically, since she has 6 months here legally); the only thing I worry about is being able to practice here in the US.
Any suggestions as to where someone who wants to change careers should start? This is perhaps the scariest and most awesome thought I have ever had.
Some pertinent information:
* I have an MFA and a BA, both in Lighting Design.
* I'm a recognized lighting expert in my field, but jobs are nil.
* I have $50,000 in student loans still from my previous education, which I was able to get an Economic Hardship forbearance for a handful of months while I'm out of work.
It's possible that we can move back to Canada and I could become a citizen (my wife is here and visiting, technically, since she has 6 months here legally); the only thing I worry about is being able to practice here in the US.
Any suggestions as to where someone who wants to change careers should start? This is perhaps the scariest and most awesome thought I have ever had.
Sorry, the MCATs may not be relevant to optometry school. But here's a discussion of the background of optometrists.
posted by dfriedman at 11:23 AM on July 1, 2013
posted by dfriedman at 11:23 AM on July 1, 2013
Taking on a bunch more student loan debt at your age isn't really advisable for any degree -- even law or medicine. I'd only do it if someone was going to pay for it or if you have money lying around to pay for it.
posted by empath at 11:25 AM on July 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by empath at 11:25 AM on July 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
It's definitely possible. Just a couple things:
- You shouldn't go into optometry unless your really want to do optometry. Optometry has sort of little to do with lighting design. You've got to love science and you've got to want to help people.
- Optometry programs are usually four years. But many have extensive prerequisites, often similar to what you'd need for med school. So unless you have chemistry, anatomy, etc., you'd probably need a year or two of bost-bacc. So you're looking about 6 years until you'd be out.
-Optometry programs are competitive. Surprisingly so. Doing the post-bacc, making all the connections to get into grad school - it's a hustle for sure.
-Most Optometry programs are probably not going to offer you much in the way of tuition reduction aid, so you're going to accumulate some loans. It isn't a funded PhD type program. With your 50k, you might be looking at well over 100k in loans at 41-42.
All of that said, you can certainly do it. There are folks much older than you in my post-bacc program (for SLP and Audiology). Just know what you're getting into.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:25 AM on July 1, 2013
- You shouldn't go into optometry unless your really want to do optometry. Optometry has sort of little to do with lighting design. You've got to love science and you've got to want to help people.
- Optometry programs are usually four years. But many have extensive prerequisites, often similar to what you'd need for med school. So unless you have chemistry, anatomy, etc., you'd probably need a year or two of bost-bacc. So you're looking about 6 years until you'd be out.
-Optometry programs are competitive. Surprisingly so. Doing the post-bacc, making all the connections to get into grad school - it's a hustle for sure.
-Most Optometry programs are probably not going to offer you much in the way of tuition reduction aid, so you're going to accumulate some loans. It isn't a funded PhD type program. With your 50k, you might be looking at well over 100k in loans at 41-42.
All of that said, you can certainly do it. There are folks much older than you in my post-bacc program (for SLP and Audiology). Just know what you're getting into.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:25 AM on July 1, 2013
Response by poster: Is it possible for a person who has two degrees to get financial aid or even grants to attend a second career choice? Obviously this one would be considerably more profitable than the first...
posted by Snell's Constant at 11:33 AM on July 1, 2013
posted by Snell's Constant at 11:33 AM on July 1, 2013
No, I don't think so.
If you're interested in academia you might be able to get a funded PhD. It will pay for school and not much else...
posted by telegraph at 11:35 AM on July 1, 2013
If you're interested in academia you might be able to get a funded PhD. It will pay for school and not much else...
posted by telegraph at 11:35 AM on July 1, 2013
My experience returning to school (law) at 30 was that financial institutions are EAGER to lend money to students who are aiming for a degree that leads to a high paying job, including living expense loans. I didn't have an advanced degree, just a B.A., but I certainly don't recall that being a question on the financial aid/loan applications.
Don't overlook unusual funding sources. There may be a random scholarship that's hiding under a bushel some place for lighting design experts who choose to go into optometry, or something equally specific that applies to you and just about no one else. I got a little funding for being a native Californian. Also, I got a partial scholarship from my school based on test scores.
posted by janey47 at 11:40 AM on July 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
Don't overlook unusual funding sources. There may be a random scholarship that's hiding under a bushel some place for lighting design experts who choose to go into optometry, or something equally specific that applies to you and just about no one else. I got a little funding for being a native Californian. Also, I got a partial scholarship from my school based on test scores.
posted by janey47 at 11:40 AM on July 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
Is it possible for a person who has two degrees to get financial aid or even grants to attend a second career choice? Obviously this one would be considerably more profitable than the first..
In the US, yes. GraduatePLUS loans are available for all graduate education degree programs.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:49 AM on July 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
In the US, yes. GraduatePLUS loans are available for all graduate education degree programs.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:49 AM on July 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Is it possible for a person who has two degrees to get financial aid or even grants to attend a second career choice? Obviously this one would be considerably more profitable than the first...
Loans, sure. Grants? Mmm, tough, probably not. Definitely not for the post-bacc piece. In grad school, I've known people in similar non-PhD doctoral programs who have manage it with research assistant jobs, TA positions and the like. Grants for non-research grad students are pretty scarce, if existent.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:53 AM on July 1, 2013
Loans, sure. Grants? Mmm, tough, probably not. Definitely not for the post-bacc piece. In grad school, I've known people in similar non-PhD doctoral programs who have manage it with research assistant jobs, TA positions and the like. Grants for non-research grad students are pretty scarce, if existent.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:53 AM on July 1, 2013
Is it possible for a person who has two degrees to get financial aid or even grants to attend a second career choice? Obviously this one would be considerably more profitable than the first...
Yes, you will be eligible for graduate level student loans. Depending on your program and the level of degree you are seeking, the amounts you get will vary, but it will be enough to cover your expenses and your living costs as long as you are credit-worthy. The government won't really offer you any grants or scholarships, so you need to talk to wherever you are planning to apply to see what options they have available (hint: probably not much).
Whether or not it is advisable for you to take on that much debt for optometry really depends on the outcome of this. Are you going to be a practicing optometrist? What is the average income in that field? What is your anticipated loan debt by the time you graduate the program? Most institutions to which you apply should publish that information.
With that loan debt, what will your monthly payments be? Calculate that here.
Now: Take what you expect your average monthly take-home pay will be, subtract your anticipated loan payments, house payments, retirement, other expenses. Are you left with anything?
posted by Think_Long at 12:05 PM on July 1, 2013
Yes, you will be eligible for graduate level student loans. Depending on your program and the level of degree you are seeking, the amounts you get will vary, but it will be enough to cover your expenses and your living costs as long as you are credit-worthy. The government won't really offer you any grants or scholarships, so you need to talk to wherever you are planning to apply to see what options they have available (hint: probably not much).
Whether or not it is advisable for you to take on that much debt for optometry really depends on the outcome of this. Are you going to be a practicing optometrist? What is the average income in that field? What is your anticipated loan debt by the time you graduate the program? Most institutions to which you apply should publish that information.
With that loan debt, what will your monthly payments be? Calculate that here.
Now: Take what you expect your average monthly take-home pay will be, subtract your anticipated loan payments, house payments, retirement, other expenses. Are you left with anything?
posted by Think_Long at 12:05 PM on July 1, 2013
Being unemployed sucks but it would probably sucks little less if you were both in Canada where your wife could earn more money and health insurance costs are minimal. There is one English school of Optometry school in Canada (Waterloo) that probably has cheaper tuition than the US. But you need a three year science degree to be considered for one of their 80 spots (and around 300 apply each year so it is pretty competitive).
What made you choose optometry? What goals of yours will being an optometrist fulfill and are there other career paths that could fill those goals cheaper/faster/better?
posted by saucysault at 12:38 PM on July 1, 2013
What made you choose optometry? What goals of yours will being an optometrist fulfill and are there other career paths that could fill those goals cheaper/faster/better?
posted by saucysault at 12:38 PM on July 1, 2013
Response by poster: @saucysault -- well, it's in healthcare, I am good at math, I'm excellent with people, and I am getting really exhausted by my industry. I've been at it for 12 years and now I'm unemployed. I've never been one to sit around doing nothing to better myself, and I keep looking at this shit period of unemployment as a time to do exactly that.
I'm going to have to do a year of the background sciences (organic chem, bio, etc) to catch up on what is needed as a prereq; I spoke with a good friend who is an ER attending who talked me out of Opthalmology (because of its speciality challenges) but said that being a lighting expert and a longtime industry player makes me a good candidate for an Optometry program's coordinators.
posted by Snell's Constant at 1:31 PM on July 1, 2013
I'm going to have to do a year of the background sciences (organic chem, bio, etc) to catch up on what is needed as a prereq; I spoke with a good friend who is an ER attending who talked me out of Opthalmology (because of its speciality challenges) but said that being a lighting expert and a longtime industry player makes me a good candidate for an Optometry program's coordinators.
posted by Snell's Constant at 1:31 PM on July 1, 2013
I spoke with a good friend who is an ER attending who talked me out of Opthalmology (because of its speciality challenges)
What in the heck does this mean? If you could become an ophthalmologist, you definitely should. The advantage of optometry over opthamology is that you can get into a program more easily and start as a practicing optometrist much sooner. But I would run the numbers and see if you have a shot at paying off the loans in a reasonable amount of time.
posted by deanc at 1:36 PM on July 1, 2013
What in the heck does this mean? If you could become an ophthalmologist, you definitely should. The advantage of optometry over opthamology is that you can get into a program more easily and start as a practicing optometrist much sooner. But I would run the numbers and see if you have a shot at paying off the loans in a reasonable amount of time.
posted by deanc at 1:36 PM on July 1, 2013
I spoke with a good friend who...said that being a lighting expert and a longtime industry player makes me a good candidate for an Optometry program's coordinators.
I don't get your friend's meaning at all. One of my best friends is in the optometry program at Waterloo, which is the only English OD program in Canada and as a result is very competitive. She has no background in the lighting industry and I'd be very surprised if any of her classmates have knowledge of lighting beyond how to change a light bulb. The students who are accepted into the program are overwhelmingly BSc undergrads in their early to mid 20's.
For Waterloo anyway, at least three years of BSc studies are required. Looking at this school's prereqs, I don't see how it would be possible to complete them in one year, especially coming from an arts background. If you've never taken an organic chemistry course, it is nothing like physical chemistry. At my undergrad university, the 200-level organic chem course had something like a 40% fail rate. It was largely referred to as a weeder course to cull weaker med school hopefuls from the herd. Many very smart people I know failed this course. The university's admissions info page even stresses that they strongly prefer applicants who completed full-time course loads during undergrad, as there is no part-time option in the OD program and it's very rigorous. I would expect other reputable OD programs to have similar prereqs (my friend applied to both Canadian and US schools, and I could ask her to verify this).
The academic requirements aren't frivolous. All optometry schools in North America also require applicants to take the Optometry Admissions Test. A major portion of the test covers natural sciences: biology (cell and molecular biology, biological organization and relationship of major taxa, structure and function of biological systems, developmental biology, genetics, and evolution, ecology, and behavior), chemistry (stoichiometry and general concepts, gases, liquids, solids, solutions, acids and bases, chemical equilibria, thermodynamics and thermochemistry, chemical kinetics, oxidation-reduction reactions, atomic and molecular structure, periodic properties, nuclear reactions, lab knowledge), and organic chemistry (mechanisms, chemical and physical properties of molecules, stereochemistry, IUPAC nomenclature rules, individual reactions of major functional groups, combinations of reactions to synthesize compounds, acid-base chemistry, aromatics and bonding). Being good at math isn't going to cut it, this is not the type of test you can bullshit your way through.
Realistically, you'd be looking at a minimum of three years in a BSc program and then four years in an OD program. If you start applying to undergrad science programs now, the soonest you could complete your OD would be age 44 or 45.
posted by keep it under cover at 3:37 PM on July 1, 2013
I don't get your friend's meaning at all. One of my best friends is in the optometry program at Waterloo, which is the only English OD program in Canada and as a result is very competitive. She has no background in the lighting industry and I'd be very surprised if any of her classmates have knowledge of lighting beyond how to change a light bulb. The students who are accepted into the program are overwhelmingly BSc undergrads in their early to mid 20's.
For Waterloo anyway, at least three years of BSc studies are required. Looking at this school's prereqs, I don't see how it would be possible to complete them in one year, especially coming from an arts background. If you've never taken an organic chemistry course, it is nothing like physical chemistry. At my undergrad university, the 200-level organic chem course had something like a 40% fail rate. It was largely referred to as a weeder course to cull weaker med school hopefuls from the herd. Many very smart people I know failed this course. The university's admissions info page even stresses that they strongly prefer applicants who completed full-time course loads during undergrad, as there is no part-time option in the OD program and it's very rigorous. I would expect other reputable OD programs to have similar prereqs (my friend applied to both Canadian and US schools, and I could ask her to verify this).
The academic requirements aren't frivolous. All optometry schools in North America also require applicants to take the Optometry Admissions Test. A major portion of the test covers natural sciences: biology (cell and molecular biology, biological organization and relationship of major taxa, structure and function of biological systems, developmental biology, genetics, and evolution, ecology, and behavior), chemistry (stoichiometry and general concepts, gases, liquids, solids, solutions, acids and bases, chemical equilibria, thermodynamics and thermochemistry, chemical kinetics, oxidation-reduction reactions, atomic and molecular structure, periodic properties, nuclear reactions, lab knowledge), and organic chemistry (mechanisms, chemical and physical properties of molecules, stereochemistry, IUPAC nomenclature rules, individual reactions of major functional groups, combinations of reactions to synthesize compounds, acid-base chemistry, aromatics and bonding). Being good at math isn't going to cut it, this is not the type of test you can bullshit your way through.
Realistically, you'd be looking at a minimum of three years in a BSc program and then four years in an OD program. If you start applying to undergrad science programs now, the soonest you could complete your OD would be age 44 or 45.
posted by keep it under cover at 3:37 PM on July 1, 2013
I think you should reckon with yourself long and hard about how future you will feel about being in a massive amount of debt and how burning and earnest is your desire to be a doctor and how it will feel day to day for you. Then try to balance it out according to what your gut is telling you.
posted by mermily at 4:19 PM on July 1, 2013
posted by mermily at 4:19 PM on July 1, 2013
What about a medical imaging tech? X-ray, sonography, CT tech? Programs are usually two years, and from the jobs I've seen advertised here in Canada, the pay is decent.
posted by meringue at 8:02 PM on July 1, 2013
posted by meringue at 8:02 PM on July 1, 2013
My brother did exactly this at age 30 (going into optometry from other paths, not lighting design). He's now 40 and has a successful practice in exactly the sort of town he always wanted to live in, and he is very happy he pursued this. Feel free to memail for more detail.
posted by judith at 9:43 PM on July 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by judith at 9:43 PM on July 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: @deanc -- what that means is that after discussing with my friend the doctor and asking questions like "what are the special challenges with Opthalmology vs Optometry?", I determined that I did not want to pursue something where another career's worth of schooling would be the requirement. I have eight years of schooling now, (1.75 Master's degrees, a minor in EE, a BA degree in design and production) but another five doesn't seem like much to more than double my salary.
posted by Snell's Constant at 11:29 AM on July 4, 2013
posted by Snell's Constant at 11:29 AM on July 4, 2013
« Older There was a little girl, who had a little boil... | writers or english degree types: help a layman... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
Can you do well on the MCATs?
posted by dfriedman at 11:22 AM on July 1, 2013 [1 favorite]