Is this company expense policy whacked out, or is it just me?
May 24, 2013 10:31 AM   Subscribe

Corporate has just handed down a large change to our T&E policy that involves us submitting original unredacted copies of credit card bills and/or applying for a company credit card that we need to pay ourselves. This seems really out of line but I don't know how to respond. Slight snowfall to follow...

I'm working for a small division of a large company. The company is doing okay but obviously there is some belt-tightening going on and we're all playing our part. Part of this is the new company T&E policy going into effect soon...which is pretty normal except for some changes.

First big change: Any expense put on a credit card needs to be submitted along with the entire credit card bill, with no parts blacked out or redacted. This isn't as much a concern for me privacy-wise since there isn't anything on a bill that's sensitive anymore, except maybe the person at corp knows my SSN but let's not go there. But still, if I refill the company pool van on my house checking card, now I have to submit my entire household bill to them? No way.

So of course I could get a company credit card. And corp is happy to let me get one, but according to the policy applying for this card, making payments in full, and reporting the expense will be personal responsibility. It's basically applying for a credit card on my own that can only be used for company T&E. Big WTF there.

I'm struggling with some bad credit - taking this corp job was a decision I made to pay down my bills and cards after a couple of years trying the startup thing. I'm making great progress. I'm also going to try and refinance the house soon. Applying for another credit card will NOT be a good thing and I don't care to do it.

Some in the office have casually mentioned "Oh, if you have great credit this won't be a problem at all." I'm not comfortable discussing my credit past with ANYONE, much less my coworkers. So I don't want to get a company card, nor do I want to submit personal credit card bills to corp and let them see such a massive balance on there. Perhaps nobody will care and I'm overthinking it.

Okay, so maybe I could get a cash advance before a trip? Nope, no more advances. New policy.

In the long view this won't hurt me much at all. I don't travel much but once in a while I'll need to visit a client and put down a credit card for a hotel. I suppose I could scrounge up a large wad of cash when travelling and just do it all in cash, but that really grinds me the wrong way. A couple of days at a convention center hotel with meals etc can be hundreds of dollars and up. Plus now I'm fronting the company CASH, which takes from my already tight budget and is money I won't see back for a month or so.

We're meeting with the CFO in a week or two to discuss the plan and I'd really like to understand if we should be angry about this, if this is crossing the line, or if this is just how it is in large companies from now on.

Thanks for listening.
posted by anonymous to Work & Money (23 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Possibly a work-around: my credit card statement only comes electronically, and I can filter it to show only certain charges, which will then appear as the total. There is no indication that the filtered bill is missing the charges that were filtered out when I print it.

I agree that this is invasive and shitty and would thus not personally be opposed to this kind of subterfuge. YMMV.
posted by elizardbits at 10:34 AM on May 24, 2013 [6 favorites]


Ask them what their liability (legal and privacy) would be for requiring unredacted personal finance information in order to do your job.
posted by rhizome at 10:36 AM on May 24, 2013 [12 favorites]


So of course I could get a company credit card. And corp is happy to let me get one, but according to the policy applying for this card, making payments in full, and reporting the expense will be personal responsibility. It's basically applying for a credit card on my own that can only be used for company T&E.

This is the way our corporate cards for travel expenses work with one major difference. My employer guarantees the card and it doesn't get checked/count against my personal credit at all. These cards are designed for people in your situation, those who do not care to have their personal credit affect their employer's needs.

You may want to confirm with your CFO if your company has access to such cards.
posted by bonehead at 10:37 AM on May 24, 2013 [9 favorites]


Yes, this is crossing the line. When you meet with the CFO, point out the privacy concerns and request that you be able to submit receipts and/or redacted credit card bills instead. Rhizome's suggestion is great too. Personal financial information is very tightly regulated. Somebody in corporate didn't think this through.
posted by chickenmagazine at 10:38 AM on May 24, 2013


I agree with bonehead.

Every corporate credit card I've ever had has been in my name, and was/is ultimately my personal responsibility to pay. BUT, the "application" process is just a formality. They don't check your credit at all, and the card doesn't show up on my credit report. At my current job, the company handles all of the payment of the card for me, as long as I submit my expense report on time.*

It's very likely that AnonyCorp is using the same type of card. Ask about this when you meet with your CFO.

*found this out the hard way when I paid my balance personally the first time, expecting a cheque/DD from SparkleCorp, and was disappointed when they just sent a payment to the card company, resulting in a positive balance that it was hard to convince the right people I was entitled to.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:42 AM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


That's how most corp cards work -- you're on the hook for the expense.

Larger companies have a way so that when you fill our your expense report, they pay the credit card company directly.

However, if it's something where you bill air-fare 3 months before travel, and corp wants only one expense report per trip (ie so you have to wait until the trip is over before submitting), then you end up fronting the cash.

But, the corp cards also (generally) have a longer billing cycle than personal cards (in my experience).

What's the usual turn-around on an expense report at your place ?
posted by k5.user at 10:42 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


In my case, I pay the card personally, but get fully reimbursed.
posted by bonehead at 10:43 AM on May 24, 2013


That is invasive and shitty. Point out your concerns,, do it a a what if scenario. Somebody hasn, t thought this through.
posted by BenPens at 10:48 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I refuse to use a corporate credit card because the company should not profit (through rebates/credit card perks) from me traveling. I have great credit and still won't use one. Any of that money should

If that policy was imposed on me, I would consider it a dealbreaker for my employment. There's no reason the company needs to know what I do with my credit card. Further, the company gets nothing out of it - if they think you are falsifying receipts, then there's no reason you wouldn't falsify a credit card bill as well.
posted by saeculorum at 11:01 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Along with pointing out your concerns over security information...
Do you have one card that you could 'clear out' and use for these charges only?
posted by calgirl at 11:02 AM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


Personally I would want to know why? Why do they need all your other information like that? It makes no sense. If they've had problems with fraud then isn't there a better way to fix it? If it's just to deter people from putting in valid expense claims than that's not cool either.

I've had to submit expense claims in several organisations in two different countries and never had a problem with a blacked out credit card statement (I black out the number too). This is definitely something worth pushing back on.
posted by shelleycat at 11:07 AM on May 24, 2013


One way around it would be to pay cash and have them reimburse you after the fact. This will only work if you can afford to be out that money until you get it back.

But I'd for sure push back a bit on this, because it sounds really creepy.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:16 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Okay, I have been working for medium/large corporations for ~10 years. Here's my experience:

* If I use a personal credit card, all I have needed was the receipt.

* A credit card statement was needed only if I lost the receipt (and if had I paid with my personal credit card).

* NEVER have I been required to provide credit card statement in its entirety without redaction. There is NO good reason I can think of why they would need to see my credit line, other expenses, interest I pay, or total balances.


* I do have a "corporate" credit card now. This is how it works:
- You apply for it using the company link with some special code.
- Your personal credit is pulled ("hard pull").
- You WILL get the card issued irrespective of your credit history (because the company guarantees the payments)
- The card is not reported to your personal credit report.
- The effect of the "hard credit pull" on your credit score can be mild (if your credit is good, maybe dips 5 points) to moderate (if your credit is not that great, maybe dips 10-20 points).
- The dip in your score will go away in a couple of months, but the "hard pull" information will remain on your personal credit report for 2 years.
- If you later apply for a mortgage you might have to explain this hard pull to your lender during the refi process (which should be easy to explain).
- I used to pay this bill directly, but recently my company has changed it -- they pay directly after expense claim is approved.
- There is a 60-day grace period after first statement is issued, so there is usually plenty of time for the bill to be paid on time.


The question for you to ask is their reason to request the credit card statement in the first place. Why isn't a receipt enough? If you paid in cash, all you have is the receipt. Why can't the same logic apply to credit card purchases?
posted by thewildgreen at 11:23 AM on May 24, 2013 [7 favorites]


What if you only get PDFs as your statements?
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:31 AM on May 24, 2013


The card statement requirement is utterly crap. I guess if the corporate card scenario is as you explained it I'd go for that as the lesser of two evils.
posted by randomkeystrike at 11:35 AM on May 24, 2013


Having worked in a corporate environment - someone has gotten confused about the difference between a credit card bill and a credit card receipt. They do not need your monthly bill.
posted by NoDef at 12:25 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


Someone is thinking they can reduce fraudulent use of company money by doing this. If you buy something and expense it and then return it, it would show up on the statement. Totally out of line and invasive? Yes. Irrational, since if you paid cash you could still do it? Yes, but less people pay cash. This is totally something I could see some of my idiot former bosses thinking was a great idea. I don't much know what else to tell ya though.
posted by celtalitha at 12:37 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


Are you certain that they need the credit card statement? Pretty much everywhere I've been has always wanted the actual receipts for expenses (e.g. the itemized bill from the hotel or the receipt slip from a restaurant). That is generally more useful to the company anyway, as a line item on a credit card statement provide much detail to substantiate your expenses: is that hotel charge the business trip you went on or the cost of emptying out the minibar at a bachelor party on an entirely different weekend that you're trying to charge to the company?

In a pinch, they can usually accept credit card statements to back up smaller expenses where the receipt has gotten lost, but that's not typically the preferred scenario. If you can just submit the actual receipts and not your credit card statements, that would be perfect for you.
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on May 24, 2013


I wager this is to combat returns/refunds/reductions. Overkill to be sure but many a corporate or government expense policy is penny wise and pound foolish.

Maybe your card provider would be willing to issue you a second card on the same account?
posted by phearlez at 12:52 PM on May 24, 2013


Ask them if their lawyers are really really sure that forcing you to reveal your medical purchases would not violate HIPAA.
posted by Sophont at 2:18 PM on May 24, 2013 [10 favorites]


Requiring credit card statements is going too far. You submit a receipt, they reimburse you.

If they don't trust people to not buy stuff and return it for cash later, then they have a management/HR problem, not an accounting one.
posted by gjc at 5:03 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


HIPAA is for covered entities: health plans, clearinghouses, and health care providers that transmit health information electronically. Your company is being stupid, but unless they are your care organization, plan or clearinghouse they are not violating HIPAA.

That said, the proposed policy is odd at best. In your spot, I'd get a company card. There's no reason to be out of pocket for cash expenditures made on your company's behalf. Use the card and immediately submit your expense reports.
posted by 26.2 at 10:17 PM on May 24, 2013


As a few people mentioned before in the thread, in my experience it is very normal that companies ask employees to be liable for a company credit card by paying them yourself. The application process is only a formality and should not go against your personal credit. However, it significantly reduces the administration, and therefore cost, for the company as they only pay what has been expensed and don't have to do the reconciliation afterwards.

At some point, I worked for an organization that had company credit cards that were paid directly by the employer. However, there were many challenges where people used that card for personal expenses, often by mistake, and now the individual needed to pay into the company, which got messy. There were also many problems with people not submitting their expenses in time, which caused additional interest fees for the company which were then hard to reclaim from the employee. By making the employee personally liable, it becomes their responsibility to submit the expenses in time and any overdue interest and charges are the employee's responsibility. All of this makes the employees more likely to submit expenses on time and significantly reduces the administrative costs for the company. Needless to say, the company changed the policy in line with your company's new policy to make employees personally liable. That was 7 years ago.

In my experience, if you submit your expenses on time, having a company credit card is not a problem as you are paid by the company before your credit card bill is due. Getting a company credit card should not be a problem and should not go against your personal credit history. That is exactly why these type of cards exist.

The only part of the policy that I find unusual is the requirement to submit your private credit card statement if you paid with your private credit card. As gjc said, you submit a receipt, they reimburse you. I don't understand why they would need to see the rest of the credit card bill.

If I were you, I would just apply for a company credit card and submit your expenses in time and you should have no issues from a privacy or credit history perspective.
posted by eurandom at 1:52 AM on May 26, 2013


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