Is this a crazy way to see Italy for the first time?
April 26, 2013 6:28 AM   Subscribe

Wife and I are going to Italy in a couple of weeks. It's our first trip there, and one we wanted to do for a long time. Friends that have been there are telling us all the places to see in Rome, Venice, Florence etc. Thing is, other than being in Rome the first & last night, we aren't going to any of those places, and don't really want to! We're planning to get off the beaten path as much as we can. Is this a good/bad idea? I'm having doubts now..

While we'll try to see some highlights in Rome, there is simply so much to see that we know Rome is several trips worth of touristing itself. Since this is predominantly my wife's trip I've taken a backseat to any kind of planning (and I really haven't had time anyway between work and a close relative now in hospice care).

Unlike previous overseas trips, we are not renting a car. Instead going by train or bus out from Rome up the coast as far as Portofino, trying to see it and going through the national park at Cinque Terre, and trying to stop in Montefiascone where my wife has some relatives she's never met. Then back to Rome.

Neither of us knows the language although she has been studying phrasebooks (all previous trips were to English-speaking countries). I haven't had time to do any research or studying. We had dinner with friends the other night - they took a Euro-cruise last year and went to Venice, Rome, Florence, and paid guides and translators to get them the front of lines to museums, etc. When we told them our plans, they acted like we were crazy and sort of made me start wondering if we are. These folks are older than us and regular cruise-going travelers. We are more seat of the pants types and never even make hotel reservations before getting there (although we did for Rome this time). They kept saying this is a "once in a lifetime trip" and we should see all the historic places. We are planning to go back someday so I don't like that line of thinking..

They were incredulous at our plans (or lack thereof) to the point now where I wondering
1) should we have more plans to see the historic stuff and tours?
2) are we going to be in trouble knowing very little of the language?
3) can we get around just fine without a car?
posted by dukes909 to Travel & Transportation around Italy (38 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
I can't speak for getting around without cars, but: Jeez! Ignore 'em and go do what you want. Yes, you're "doing it wrong" from the perspective of 'traditional' tourism, where you go once, see a handful of hyper-iconic places, and then probably never return. Who cares? Do what you want, and damn the rest.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:30 AM on April 26, 2013 [6 favorites]


Wanting to do the things you and your wife want to do seems to be very reasonable to me. Obviously, if you were big museum people you would have planned the trip around that. I do like museums, but I also like finding smaller places to explore and not have much to do. I am too busy already, I dont need to go on holiday to get busier.

You can definitely do it by public transportation, but its also a pretty easy place to drive around (assuming you drive stick!). I also would worry too much about the language: luck, a smile and pointing can go pretty far for an English speaker in Europe these days.

I would rather be on your trip than your friends'.
posted by shothotbot at 6:36 AM on April 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


This is your vacation and you should take it as you want.

If you're not that interested in seeing all that must be seen, but instead want a trip that involves pretty views from trains, staying in out of the way country inns and wandering around villages meeting folks and relaxing, then that's what you should do.

You can't see it all in one trip. I rather pity the people who try. It must all meld together.

I did the Mediterranian cruise. It was a Perk my sister got (she's in advertising) and it was uber-luxurious and everything was paid for. We had the guided tours for Rome, Pompeii, etc.

One day, in St. Tropez, we were scheduled to go on a day-long tour of the Provence wine country. We bailed on it. We slept in, had a wonderful breakfast and went into St. Tropez. It was Saturday, so we walked around the market, ate some Pommes Frites from a stand, cruised a drug store and wandered around the little shops in the town. We still talk about that day as one of the highlights of our trip.

Sometimes, just immersing yourself in a new place is enough to really make you feel like you've been somewhere.

The Vatican and the Colisseum aren't going anywhere.

You'll be fine, don't worry about the language (in a pinch, point and know Please and Thank You.) You won't need a car.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:37 AM on April 26, 2013 [6 favorites]


These folks are older than us and regular cruise-going travelers.

There's your answer. And your answer to them is that all of those places* have been there a long time and will still be there next time.

* fingers crossed for Venice
posted by holgate at 6:37 AM on April 26, 2013 [4 favorites]


The first (and only) time I went to Italy, I went to Genoa, Rome, and a bunch of places in the far, far south that you haven't heard of and you wouldn't be interested in if I explained the trip there in detail.

It was fantastic, and I had a really good time, and I have plenty of stories from that adventure. Venice, Bologna, Florence, etc. will always be there. You can always see them on your next trip. (though global warming may be a reason to see Venice sooner rather than later)

You sound like you've planned a great vacation. Have a good time. As awesome as you might think Rome is, it is even more awesome than that, so I suspect both that you will spend more time there than you expected and you will come back from the trip thinking, "I really want to go back and visit Rome again!"

Italy's train network is extensive, and you should be able to get to most "major" locations by train. If you're going someplace really isolated renting a car may be worth it, but other than that, you should be fine.
posted by deanc at 6:39 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Also, on language: I found Italian very easy to pick up (but I remember lots of my old high school Spanish, so I was a quick study when it came to Italian), and in places like Rome and Portofino, there will be plenty of people who speak English.
posted by deanc at 6:41 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Duke, I'm going to Rome in 3 weeks and this is exactly how I'm doing it too. If anyone gives you flack, you can tell 'em that just hanging around in coffee shops and watching the world go by is a fine thing to do too, and in fact the Italians have a name for precisely that kind of chillin' out ("la dolce vita"), so I'm told.

It's your vacation, not your friends' vacation. Look at it this way - it sounds like they plan everything out so there are tour guides with them every step of the way, and - if they do that, do they ever get to have any of those wacky spontaneous accidental adventures that make for the best stories? (I was just telling someone yesterday that my best travel story so far involves getting swept up some actor's entourage and getting to crash a late-night live radio show in Dublin; that'd never have happened if I did tour guides for everything).

Also - my last trip anywhere, I did try to cram in a lot of "must see" things, and three days into it I was feeling uneasy - and realized that it didn't feel like a vacation, it felt like I was ticking things off a to-do list. I was supposed to be relaxing, dammit. So then the next day I blew off everything and went back for a second ride on a boat I'd enjoyed the day before and had a blast.

Have a good time. (And I'm memailing you in a minute to compare "whee we're going to Rome" notes!)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:41 AM on April 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


There's lots of cool historic stuff in Italy. Whether you should see it is really an open question. Do you want to see it? Do you want to see it now? It's not going anywhere. (Well, Venice might be.)

If not, then countryside tourism is a *huge* industry in Italy -- renting villas, staying at agriturismos, cycling through the countryside, etc, etc. The path you've chosen is a totally valid way to see Italy and thousands if not millions of people choose that every year.

I'm not saying the stuff in Italian cities isn't cool and great and worth seeing, but if it's not what you want to see then none of that matters.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:43 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Some of the most amazing stuff you do on any trip is when you get away from all the touristy stuff and mix it up with the locals. Do your trip the way you want to. Grab a Lonely Planet or a similar guide book which focuses on the less obvious stuff.
posted by empath at 6:48 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Just want to add that traveling by train is easy and inexpensive. They have many types of trains (high speed ones are awesome) you can take all at different price points. I found driving to be an absolute nightmare. It's way nicer to sit back in your seat on the train, enjoy the countryside, maybe meet a local or tourist, and be able to look up something like a map of your destination with the free wifi.
posted by jmmpangaea at 6:48 AM on April 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


Given a limited amount of time, I'd go on your trip way before I would go on a "greatest hits of Italy" trip. Although I would rent a car. Language shouldn't be a big problem. In Rome and other touristy places, it seems to be appreciated if you make some attempt to greet people and say please and thank you in Italian, and otherwise blend in a bit.
posted by BibiRose at 6:50 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Honestly - this sounds awesome, but I would rent a car. But I love driving in 'Yurp outside the major cities so ymmv. But having a car gives you a little more flexibility to read about something that sounds cool and veering off to check it out.
posted by JPD at 6:51 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


1) Pretty sure it is impossible to skip seeing historic stuff and tours anywhere in Italy

2) I would practice basic phrases and verb conjugation, and have a really solid set of phrase books. It really shouldn't be a problem, but you might not get the immediate switch to English that happens in Florence or Rome a lot of the time. Since you are getting trains and buses, I would say especially learn your numbers, times, and variants of "We would like X first class/second class tickets to Y" and "Can you call us a taxi for X."

3) Can't speak for the national park bit but going from Montefiascone to Rome is dead easy and shouldn't be a problem at all. Also it's adorable and Est! Est! Est! is the best name for wine. One thing to keep in mind is that the train system is really great but sometimes in smaller areas the train station is still a hike from the actual town, so double check if you'll need a cab or walking directions. (If you end up spending more time in the area, it's full of great little towns like the wonderful Orvieto.)

I actually spent a year living near Montefiascone in high school and while I went to Rome for a couple of class trips, I think we only went in by ourselves a couple of times. I had been to Rome for a bit before and the other heavy hitters on other class trips, but honestly you'll be surrounded by cool and wonderful things and food and places. Have an amazing time.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:52 AM on April 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Yay, thank you MeFi folks. I want to mark everyone's answer as the best. I'd go for renting a car to have that flexibility, but the SO doesn't want to, so...
posted by dukes909 at 6:56 AM on April 26, 2013


Our rule of thumb is to never take travel advice from someone who goes on cruises. They don't really like to travel. They prefer the Disneyland version of the rest of the world. You're going to have a blast. Go discover Italy!
posted by txmon at 6:58 AM on April 26, 2013 [17 favorites]


because she doesn't like driving? or because she wants to take the train? If that's the case makes sure you really can take the train and not buses everywhere you want to go. But yeah, its great to experience a real passenger train network and you should go for it.

If its because she's nervous about driving I'd make two points - driving in cities is what can be crazy for someone used to driving in the US (excepting maybe those of us who live in Manhattan and Boston). If you can pick up and return your rental on the outskirts of town you'll avoid all that, in general Highways in Italy are much better than in the US, and Drivers are much better. Just as long as you stay out of the left lane its pretty easy.
posted by JPD at 7:02 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


I have been to Italy a few times. Done Rome, Florence, Venice, Milan, Pisa, most more than once. Sure, the first three are worth seeing. But heading back from Pisa to Milan along the coast made me really wish I had spent some time away from the cities. That stretch of coast is gergeous, the train line runs in and out of hillsides and brings you out on villages filled with pastel shaded buildings overlooking beautiful beaches with blue sea and sky. I have never been anywhere that I wanted to get off the train and stay awhile as much as on that coast.

Measure that up against wandering round museums and looking at pictures you're not that interested in seeing? Is that really a contest? To hell with your friends and their cloned holidays.
posted by biffa at 7:03 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


I can think of few more miserable ways of spending an Italian holiday then trying to get round a list of sights drawn up be friends or by some guidebook author. It is possible to spend good week just in Rome trying to see all the major ancient/vatican and modern sights for example. All these places have crowds, heat, random days on which they are closed and not so many actual Italians.

Instead try to put some spaces into your agenda so that you can hang out in cafes. shops. beaches, parks and other places where Italians go.

Echoing the comments about driving - if you do rent a car rent a small one like the locals drive and make sure you are paid up on collision insurance. Personally I would take the train - most especially it is THE way to arrive at Cinque Terra.
posted by rongorongo at 7:08 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Wow, you're going to have a great trip! And you're going to see things nobody else you know has seen or will see.

I've always told people that if they are going to Italy they should see two things: 1) Rome 2) The countryside. So, you're all set.

Florence is interesting if you're into Art History. Venice is interesting if you're into history. So you go see them despite the fact that they are touristy and overcrowded. But everyone is missing the rest of Italy. Which is a shame because most of what is most characteristic of Italy - the good food, the vineyards, the medieval villages, the stunning coasts - is not really concentrated in any of the above three cities.
posted by vacapinta at 7:16 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: @JPD: I think it's a little of both. We rented a car everywhere else we've been and really put some serious mileage on them, probably too much time in the car ("yeah we'll drive from London to Lands' End as soon as we get there").. And I think we're both a little timid of driving out of Rome.
posted by dukes909 at 7:17 AM on April 26, 2013


You can surely take a train to the suburbs and rent a car there.

You're doing it right. Tourist attractions are fine if you can't think of anything to do, but I've always had my best experiences on the way there, not inside, you know?
posted by Lyn Never at 7:21 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Allow people to give you lots of advice, but also ask them, "What was your best experience in Italy?" and "What did you do that was off the beaten path?" If you can characterize your trip with an easy description, like 'small towns in Tuscany', or 'vineyards', people may understand better, but you don't have to tell them you have different plans, and you certainly don't have to justify your travel plans. Have fun.
posted by theora55 at 7:32 AM on April 26, 2013


First--txmon, that's the greatest comment in the history of MetaFilter. We must be twins.

When I went to Italy as a late-teenager on a Eurowander, the world was a different place. It was June of 1998. We based our stay in Germany, as both of us had a relative familiarity with the language, and then we wandered from there. Randomly we decided to go to Venice from Southern Germany.

Eurorail passes are great if you're loaded...but not so much for us then. So we bought tickets from, I think, someplace like Garmisch, that would take us all the way to Verona---we were told the Verona-to-Venice ticket has to be purchased in Verona. ~12-14 hour trip. So off we go...

So neither of us spoke any Italian at all, and we realized that was stupid, but we DID speak German so we felt like maybe we'd have a leg up. So Austria was great, and off we went for Italy. We were riding Deutsch-Bahn, which was great because the service was great and, well, they spoke German. We were riding a slow train because it was all we could afford. So we had a layover in this town in Italy, I believe it was Brennero. This is pre-Euro, so we've got Dollars and Schillings and Marks, and so we think we'll pop into this town and get some Lire. So we disembark and we're on an island in the depot with maybe 10-15 other folks. We're kind of amazed that literally everything is in Italian. Granted that we're 18 and American, but we could literally throw a rock into Austria, and the depot was served by Deutsch Bahn, so we were a little surprised. Anyway, we used the toilet (the ladies toilet, actually, because the mens had that ceramic-hole-in-the-ground thing and we didn't know how to operate it) and then followed some folks into the town.

Almost.

We get like...I dunno...halfway across the tracks and all the sudden there's machine guns everywhere. Dudes in their white shirts and green sashes with guns and screaming and...scary. So we're hands up and into the office, and we're both thinking that we're probably never going to be heard from again and we're about to lose all our money. So the local guy starts screaming at us. I'm asking him please, Deutsch oder English bitte bitte bitte! and he screams at me "No Cherman, No English, ITALIANO!" which is his right, I think, as we were in Italy. Finally he makes us understand "Passaporte" or something, so we give them to him. I was 18, my friend 17. So he took mine and scanned me into his Interpol machine and kept screaming.

Finally he got some kid...and I mean KID, like maybe 17, to come talk to us. This poor kid spoke worse German than we did, and that was saying something. Again, we just found it remarkable that none of the Border Guards spoke any German THAT CLOSE to the border. He finally gets us to understand that we've illegally crossed the train tracks and are looking at a Great Big Fine. They toss our bags and hand us each tickets, and they're screaming at us that we must pay in Lire. NOW NOW NOW. Also, we must get on the very next train, no matter where it's going, and get out of their town.

They were very non-plussed that we didn't have any Lire, and as I'm hearing "TEN TOUSANT LIRE!" I'm a little afraid, as we have noooooooo idea what the exchange rate is. So we say "Marks oder Shillings", and he informs me that indeed 10 Marks will do it, which is like $5.75 at the time. So neither of us have that exactly, so they take what we have and march us back to the depot island. (Across the tracks, I might add.)

So literally at gunpoint, they put us on the next train, which is Italian, NOT Deutsch, which means our tickets are invalid. So we make it clear that our tickets are no good but they shove us on anyway. So now we're terrified because we're illegally on the wrong train and now I've got an interpol record...

So we ride along for hours, grapes and grapes and grapes, terrified that someone's going to look for our ticket. Finally it happens, along comes the punchy guy. So we hand him our Deutsch Bahn tickets, and we've decided to just play absolutely stupid. So he goes to scan the barcode, but it's a different system, and he basically acts like he's never seen a Deutsch Bahn ticket ever, and is quite confused. So he just keeps asking us for our tickets. Finally, amazingly, there was a German on the train who translated for us, and explained to the ticket-taker that we had gotten on the wrong train. No problem! Only 50,000 lire each! We were still without Lire, so he basically raided our last store of Marks and Shillings, stuffed it in his pockets, and walked away...no new tickets for us.

So because this was the wrong train, we got to Verona about 20 minutes after the hostels closed, and would have spent (another) night in the train station but for a young couple we met in the depot whose friends had invited them to Europe for a wedding and then cancelled it after they got there. We all shared a hotel room. The next day, we went to Venice, where we were drugged and nearly robbed at a restaurant. They were also dredging the canals at that point, and it was amazingly awful. So we hopped on the next train back to Austria, and made sure we routed through somewhere other than Brennero. The next day in Austria was some patron saint's day, and all of Austria was closed...like...all day. Wild being in Vienna and seeing literally nobody for hours.

So...my point is, we DID NOT DO IT RIGHT.

And that made it awesome.

That is all.
posted by TomMelee at 7:34 AM on April 26, 2013 [7 favorites]


A general travel tip from The Doctor (who was actually talking about time travel, but it still applies) - "You can't just read the guidebook, you've got to throw yourself in! Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, get charged double and end up kissing complete strangers!"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:42 AM on April 26, 2013 [4 favorites]


The only thing I'd suggest doing differently is researching the trains a little bit, because as I recall it's a spoke-and-hub scenario, and while excellent, it doesn't necessarily go directly from point to point. (You can get almost anywhere, but (for instance) as I recall, to get to Cinque Terre you'd have to go to Milan and then take another train west.)

Also, you need to take a moment and do the train ticket system correctly, they check every time and don't appreciate shenanigans. Validate the ticket etc.

PLEASE ignore any travel advice from anyone who goes on cruises. Unless you are also someone who goes on cruises.

My husband, an excellent driver and instinctive navigator, found highway and city driving in Italy to be extremely stressful, although the small mountain roads were fine. I love trains in Italy. Your trip sounds wonderful. Just get on the website and look at the train map a bit to get your bearings.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:44 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


"You can't just read the guidebook, you've got to throw yourself in! Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, get charged double and end up kissing complete strangers!"

But you should also read the guidebook. I have had great experiences with my Lonely Planet Guidebooks, which have been excellent, and my officemate recommends Rick Steves' guidebooks and for the love of Pete, I wish more AskMe OPs (not you dukess99) would freakin' think about reading a guidebook before posting about their questions about travel.
posted by deanc at 7:47 AM on April 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: @fingersandtoes: Yes, that was one thing that another friend stressed was to make sure, MAKE SURE, we get our train tickets validated beforehand...or else.
posted by dukes909 at 7:56 AM on April 26, 2013


They were incredulous at our plans (or lack thereof) to the point now where I wondering

That's because they're used to taking packaged cruises and "highlights" tours, and thus see countries as a series of "must-see" check-boxes. You, on the other hand, want to wander and explore and get to know the country from a resident's-eye viewpoint. That's just a totally different set of priorities.

Your SO has clearly done her homework (since I've been to Italy a few times and dont' even recognize all your destinations), so that probably means that her choices are tailored to your interests and pace. If things get dull for any reason (say, a week of rain), it's easy to change course and find a museum to spend the day in, but honestly, the trips I recall most fondly are those where there was a lot of tailoring to my interests (mix of wine sites and castles, say) + lots of room for serendipity. I still pine for the set of olive carts we happened onto in the central square of a small town in southern France, or just sitting on a bench with a loaf of bread and some cheese. Don't let the "experienced travelers" spoil your vision!!
posted by acm at 8:15 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yes! Get your tickets validated.

No need for a car, the train service is great. We didn't buy tickets in advance, just the day-of in the station when we were ready for our next stop. We none of us spoke Italian, and had no problems.

In Florence, the very bestest most favoritest thing we did was this:

http://www.ibiketuscany.com/

It was AMAZING. Some people in our group were not cyclists, so we did an easy one and everyone agreed afterwards it was a highlight.

Also - in Venice, I suggest not actually staying in Venice, but on the Venice Lido. It gives you an excuse to take the water bus, and the Lido is much more quiet that the crazy Disney-ness that is Venice itself. It only takes like 20 minutes to ferry between the Lido and the city. Also, the Lido has a great public beach about a 5-10 walk from any hotel you stay at there. Swim the Adriatic!
posted by Windigo at 8:16 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Italian here. Your plan is perfectly doable and perfectly wonderful. The one thing you have to remember is that it is not possible to get a ticket for your final destination board a train and then stop when you want unless you get get a Europass of some kind. What you need if you do not get that expensive pass is a detailed map of Italy that shows the little towns and then buy tickets from town to the next town you want to visit. Large train stations have maps that show connections between towns.
Trenitalia has a decent website, and intercities is the type of train you want, the type commuters use, the type that connect small towns to big towns.
The subreddit Italy is fairly active and a good source of help, if you need it, with lots of English speaking redditors.
posted by francesca too at 8:25 AM on April 26, 2013 [5 favorites]


Response by poster: Thank you francesca - didn't know this. We'll do a bit more route planning now!
posted by dukes909 at 8:28 AM on April 26, 2013


As far as your #1--I have found that no matter what sort of vacation plans you have, people will tell you you're going about it all wrong. If you're taking the train, you should rent a car. If you're renting a car, you should take the bus. If you're taking the bus, you should hitch. If you're in a luxury hotel, you should stay in a B&B. If you're in a B&B you should stay in a Holiday Inn. If you're in a Holiday Inn, you should stay in a hostel. No, no, don't stay in a hostel, couchsurf! I just smile and nod, and change the subject.

Anyway: if you don't feel like going to historic places, don't go to historic places. You've got a limited amount of time there this trip, don't waste it on things you think you ought to do and spend it on things you want to do.
posted by telophase at 9:05 AM on April 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


my friends and I just spent a week in italy knowing 0 Italian.as we went we built an Italian cheat sheet of useful phrases, mostly around politely ordering and paying for food. we survived, we found food, and places to visit mostly on the kindness strangers.

I would recommend carrying a travel book explaining custom s. we had Lonely Planet Rome which.explained thongs like tipping and the difference between a coffee in America and un caffe in Italy. it also got us started on common phrases like " how much"
posted by jander03 at 10:29 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Adding to the chorus of "your plan sounds lovely!". (And, "I'd be miserable traveling like your friends!")

For calibration - my last trip to Italy was for work, but I had the weekends on either side free. I was too busy to do any planning beforehand. Well, I bought a guidebook, which I read on the plane. I landed in Milan in the morning without any idea of where I was going to sleep that night. Wound up in Cinque Terre, which was amazing and so worth it. Also, I knew no Italian going into this. So ... your plan is totally doable and awesome.

My experience was that the trains are strict, but it really pays to search out the ticket-taker in advance if you realize that you forgot to validate or are at all uncertain about your ticket.
posted by Metasyntactic at 11:27 AM on April 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Friends that have been there are telling us all the places to see in Rome, Venice, Florence etc. Thing is, other than being in Rome the first & last night, we aren't going to any of those places, and don't really want to! We're planning to get off the beaten path as much as we can. Is this a good/bad idea?

Of course it's a good idea.

This is your trip.

You should see and do the things YOU want to, not the things your friends want you to do.

I don't think you should actively avoid your friends' recommendations, and hell, if any of them are right in line with things that interest you, great! But I kind of hate the approach to travel that says that there are THINGS YOU MUST DO, and if you don't, then you didn't experience it properly.

I've been to Italy three times and have yet to visit Florence or Tuscany at all. I'm OK with this. I like to tell people who bug me about that part of the country that I'm saving it for my honeymoon. I don't know if that's true or not. I'm not avoiding Tuscany deliberately, it just hasn't been on the agenda any of the times I've been and that's fine.

Other thoughts on things you wrote:

we know Rome is several trips worth of touristing itself.

Ehhhh, not really. Rome's a cool city and all, but it's smallish and there really is only so much to see. It's not Paris or New York or Mumbai.

Instead going by train or bus out from Rome up the coast as far as Portofino, trying to see it and going through the national park at Cinque Terre, and trying to stop in Montefiascone where my wife has some relatives she's never met. Then back to Rome.

That sounds fine, though per above it's the part of Italy I'm least familiar with. But it sounds like a good chunk to bite off for a vacation, and I'm sure doing it by train will be fine.

Neither of us knows the language

You'll be fine. While in my experience Italians' English skills are relatively dismal compared to other parts of Europe, people are very friendly and you can go a long way with a few words of Italian, smiling and nodding, gestures, etc. And some people WILL speak (some) English. In my experience it's helpful if you've studied a Romance language in school and can use context clues and cognates to read signs, but honestly you'll be OK. Italy is a very easy country to lack language skills, just because it's so traveler-friendly and the culture is so laid back.

When we told them our plans, they acted like we were crazy and sort of made me start wondering if we are. These folks are older than us and regular cruise-going travelers

It sounds to me that your friends just have a different traveling style. That's fine.

BTW if you want some moral high ground, know that cruise travel like this is destroying sensitive parts of the Italian coastal ecosystem, for instance the Venetian Lagoon. I mean, I wouldn't say this to your friends or anything, but you at least have the benefit of knowing that, whether your approach is "right" or "wrong", you're at least having less of environmental impact on the places you're visiting.

They kept saying this is a "once in a lifetime trip" and we should see all the historic places.

It sounds like you guys are pretty well traveled, internationally, and like you will probably have other chances to see parts of Italy you're not going to get to on this trip. None of the things you're missing out on are limited-time-only things. (That said, I would take a day trip to Pompeii if you can, seeing how miserably it's being kept up lately.)

1) should we have more plans to see the historic stuff and tours?

The only aspect of your friends' way of traveling I sort of agree with is the part where they arrange tours of historical sites. It's something I can't really afford, and I'm always jealous of people walking around places like the Roman Forum with a personal guide who I can tell has real expertise. That said, if you guys are not history buffs, or like me you can't afford to book tours like that, I don't think it's a dealbreaker. But it is one of the few Traditional Approaches To Tourism that I wish I took better advantage of as a seat-of-pants traveler.

Oh, one more thing about Italy without a car -- you may find yourself in pretty interesting interactions with public transit. I'll say that you might want to avail yourself of a guidebook that explains how the various systems work, because in Italy this can be pretty counterproductive even to Americans who are comfortable on public transit. Also, be prepared to be extra seat-of-pants ish, vigilant about things like getting on the right bus/getting off at the right stop, and experiment with the language (one of you should know common bus and train questions like "does this bus stop in Montefiascone?" or "I'd like a ticket to Portofino").

TL;DR: Go! Enjoy! This is your trip to experience your way! All your plans sound fine.
posted by Sara C. at 12:03 PM on April 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


Oh, and re the whole "it'll all be there for next time, well, except for Venice", keep in mind that your planned trip is on the other end of the country from Venice. Unless this is The Very Last Year Ever For Venice, it just doesn't make sense with this trip at all. Even if you decided to scrap the whole thing and just go to Venice, you're flying in and out of Rome, so, no.

In a couple or three years, take a similar trip where you fly into Milan and visit Venice and northern Italy.
posted by Sara C. at 12:22 PM on April 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


Imagine if you had gone on your trip first, and then talked to this other couple before their trip. You would probably talk all about the amazing small towns with no tourists, and that you couldn't understand how someone could enjoy a trip with guides and going to the busy places. But we know they did enjoy that. So, don't worry about it.
posted by smackfu at 6:42 AM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]


We enjoyed Italy once for three weeks and also had no plans but we did have a car. No Italian and no friends there or relatives.
We had a fabulous time- went with the flow, met amazing and over-friendly people (most Italians are) and got lost a few times and enjoyed that. It's a great country with plenty of off the beaten track wonderful adventures and not a place where you need plans, guides and mandatory sites to visit.
posted by privatechef at 2:07 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]


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