What to do with a BA in History? (Redux)
April 4, 2013 12:13 PM Subscribe
This is a followup to this question from almost five years ago. I am about to graduate from a not-very-well-known State University in the southwest with a BA in History. My problem is that I am now rudderless, with a great deal of debt and virtually no real job prospects. I am staring down the barrel of paycheck-to-paycheck poverty, forever. Please help.
The Bad News: I have roughly $36,000 in debt. Next month I will have a Bachelor of Arts (Summa Cum Laude) in History and International Studies from a southwestern university that you've probably never heard of.
I am very bad at math (I got a C- in college algebra) so going back and getting another degree in a STEM field is probably not going to happen. I have a shitty job that I hate wherein I make a shitty amount of money with no benefits. I'm turning 30 next month and I am far, far behind (financially, career-wise, socially, etc.) others my age.
The good news: I am a pretty good student (it's one of the few things in life I'm actually good at, I guess). I have a 4.0 for my last 50 credit hours or so, and I have been accepted into the Masters of Public Administration program at my local no-name southwestern university. I am not really thrilled by Public Administration, but I applied to the program because i felt like it was something I could do for a decent wage.
The Details:
I have been told, by multiple history professors, that grad study in History is a dead end. Nobody is hiring history professors. The last time our (invisible) school advertised an open (non-tenured) position in the history department, we got 1000+ applicants from all over the country. There are History PhD's from Harvard working at Starbucks right now. I can't compete against them.
Law school is a no go. I'm not that interested in law and I don't want to spend $150,000 for the privilege of working 80 hours a week for an uncertain amount of money. Uncertain job prospects in the first place, too.
I'm really just trying to figure out what to do with my life, while discovering that my life has been made redundant by the free market. I have no purpose and very little prospect of upward mobility in our society.
What can I do about this? Is there some avenue that I haven't yet explored? Is there something that I'm missing? What are my options, hivemind?
The Bad News: I have roughly $36,000 in debt. Next month I will have a Bachelor of Arts (Summa Cum Laude) in History and International Studies from a southwestern university that you've probably never heard of.
I am very bad at math (I got a C- in college algebra) so going back and getting another degree in a STEM field is probably not going to happen. I have a shitty job that I hate wherein I make a shitty amount of money with no benefits. I'm turning 30 next month and I am far, far behind (financially, career-wise, socially, etc.) others my age.
The good news: I am a pretty good student (it's one of the few things in life I'm actually good at, I guess). I have a 4.0 for my last 50 credit hours or so, and I have been accepted into the Masters of Public Administration program at my local no-name southwestern university. I am not really thrilled by Public Administration, but I applied to the program because i felt like it was something I could do for a decent wage.
The Details:
I have been told, by multiple history professors, that grad study in History is a dead end. Nobody is hiring history professors. The last time our (invisible) school advertised an open (non-tenured) position in the history department, we got 1000+ applicants from all over the country. There are History PhD's from Harvard working at Starbucks right now. I can't compete against them.
Law school is a no go. I'm not that interested in law and I don't want to spend $150,000 for the privilege of working 80 hours a week for an uncertain amount of money. Uncertain job prospects in the first place, too.
I'm really just trying to figure out what to do with my life, while discovering that my life has been made redundant by the free market. I have no purpose and very little prospect of upward mobility in our society.
What can I do about this? Is there some avenue that I haven't yet explored? Is there something that I'm missing? What are my options, hivemind?
Well, what else do you like to do? I know plenty of news and documentary producers who don't have film or broadcast or j-school degrees, but liberal arts degrees. Contrary to what you read in the papers, there is work for people who don't have Ivy League degrees. Does your school have a career counseling office? What about alumni networks? Do you know anyone who is gainfully employed?
PR, media relations, communications, anything where research and writing is useful. But really, your first job out of undergrad is about learning how to go to work.
posted by Ideefixe at 12:23 PM on April 4, 2013
PR, media relations, communications, anything where research and writing is useful. But really, your first job out of undergrad is about learning how to go to work.
posted by Ideefixe at 12:23 PM on April 4, 2013
Two step plan for success:
a) Get screened for depression
b) Find a better job now, which hopefully either pays better, you hate less, OR has better benefits.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 12:23 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
a) Get screened for depression
b) Find a better job now, which hopefully either pays better, you hate less, OR has better benefits.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 12:23 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
a great deal of debt and virtually no real job prospects. I am staring down the barrel of paycheck-to-paycheck poverty, forever.
my life has been made redundant by the free market. I have no purpose and very little prospect of upward mobility in our society.
Do you honestly believe these 4 statements? You are being seriously overdramatic, either way.
You may have "no real job prospects" as a professional historian. Okay, fine. There are other options out there.
Go on indeed.com and search for jobs in the nearest decently-sized city to you that is, relatively speaking, not economically depressed. Search for jobs in the $30,000 - $50,000 range. Just read them. That will give you a sense of the kinds of entry-level professional jobs that are out there in your area. Then, apply to all the ones that ask for liberal arts undergraduate degrees. (Ignore which major they are asking for).
Why don't you think finding a job that way is a realistic thing to do?
posted by cairdeas at 12:33 PM on April 4, 2013 [16 favorites]
my life has been made redundant by the free market. I have no purpose and very little prospect of upward mobility in our society.
Do you honestly believe these 4 statements? You are being seriously overdramatic, either way.
You may have "no real job prospects" as a professional historian. Okay, fine. There are other options out there.
Go on indeed.com and search for jobs in the nearest decently-sized city to you that is, relatively speaking, not economically depressed. Search for jobs in the $30,000 - $50,000 range. Just read them. That will give you a sense of the kinds of entry-level professional jobs that are out there in your area. Then, apply to all the ones that ask for liberal arts undergraduate degrees. (Ignore which major they are asking for).
Why don't you think finding a job that way is a realistic thing to do?
posted by cairdeas at 12:33 PM on April 4, 2013 [16 favorites]
I have a lot of sympathy for your situation. I also went to college and studied things I loved instead of things that taught me immediately obvious job skills. I'm now in a very different field.
The issue I see with your question is that you present the avenues that are closed to you or not of interest, but not what assets you have beyond that you are good at school - which is great, by the way. It's your assets, not the closed doors, that should guide you. What else are you interested in besides history? What are your strengths? There are a million directions you can go from where you are now, and some of them pay pretty well.
Your school should offer career counseling and should offer assessment tools to help you narrow the field. Even if they are geared towards freshmen, take them.
Make a list of things you are good at. Organization, research, writing, analysis, meeting deadlines. Plug some of those search terms into indeed and see what's available in your area. See if any of those jobs sound good. Apply for them.
Sign up with temp agencies in your area. Go on assignments and be cheerful and willing to pitch in where needed. Take it as a chance to look at different work environments and industries and see what appeals to you.
For most people "what I want to be when I grow up" is something that changes from job to job. You don't have to answer that question right now. You just have to take your next step.
posted by bunderful at 12:34 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
The issue I see with your question is that you present the avenues that are closed to you or not of interest, but not what assets you have beyond that you are good at school - which is great, by the way. It's your assets, not the closed doors, that should guide you. What else are you interested in besides history? What are your strengths? There are a million directions you can go from where you are now, and some of them pay pretty well.
Your school should offer career counseling and should offer assessment tools to help you narrow the field. Even if they are geared towards freshmen, take them.
Make a list of things you are good at. Organization, research, writing, analysis, meeting deadlines. Plug some of those search terms into indeed and see what's available in your area. See if any of those jobs sound good. Apply for them.
Sign up with temp agencies in your area. Go on assignments and be cheerful and willing to pitch in where needed. Take it as a chance to look at different work environments and industries and see what appeals to you.
For most people "what I want to be when I grow up" is something that changes from job to job. You don't have to answer that question right now. You just have to take your next step.
posted by bunderful at 12:34 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have no purpose and very little prospect of upward mobility in our society.
I have a liberal arts undergrad degree and debt, and I have a pretty good job in nonprofit development. I didn't have to go to grad school for it, and it has benefits. It's totally possible. You don't NEED a STEM degree to make money.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:34 PM on April 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
I have a liberal arts undergrad degree and debt, and I have a pretty good job in nonprofit development. I didn't have to go to grad school for it, and it has benefits. It's totally possible. You don't NEED a STEM degree to make money.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:34 PM on April 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
I have been accepted into the Masters of Public Administration program at my local no-name southwestern university. I am not really thrilled by Public Administration, but I applied to the program because i felt like it was something I could do for a decent wage.
If that masters isn't going to be free, then you'd better not enroll without a sheet of calculations listing expected salary without the masters, expected salary with the masters (and likelihood of getting those jobs), expected additional debt taken on during the masters, foregone salary during the masters, etc.
posted by jacalata at 12:35 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
If that masters isn't going to be free, then you'd better not enroll without a sheet of calculations listing expected salary without the masters, expected salary with the masters (and likelihood of getting those jobs), expected additional debt taken on during the masters, foregone salary during the masters, etc.
posted by jacalata at 12:35 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
As depressing as it may sound, you need to just keep looking for a better job, one that will allow you to pay down your debt. That's a lot of debt--you need to figure a plan that at least gives you an end goal of becoming debt free.
Literally nothing else in my life changed my outlook more than being debt free. It's a tremendous relief.
Until you find a better-paying job, try to shift your expenses so that you are at least paying the debt down a little each month. $100?
There is always the Internet. Learn HTML/Javascript/CSS/etc. in your free time. If you're a good writer, start a blog and try to get hired somewhere.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:38 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Literally nothing else in my life changed my outlook more than being debt free. It's a tremendous relief.
Until you find a better-paying job, try to shift your expenses so that you are at least paying the debt down a little each month. $100?
There is always the Internet. Learn HTML/Javascript/CSS/etc. in your free time. If you're a good writer, start a blog and try to get hired somewhere.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:38 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
What is that you like about history? Would you want to do research? Marketing? Non-profit work? Are you interested in teaching? Are you willing to relocate?
Do not do the masters if you do not actually like the program; there is no reason to add onto your debt to get a grad degree you don't care about. Do not at all go to law school.
posted by jetlagaddict at 12:38 PM on April 4, 2013
Do not do the masters if you do not actually like the program; there is no reason to add onto your debt to get a grad degree you don't care about. Do not at all go to law school.
posted by jetlagaddict at 12:38 PM on April 4, 2013
Look for jobs that involve research and writing as those are the core skills of history graduates. There are lots of way to go with those skills.
posted by srboisvert at 12:39 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by srboisvert at 12:39 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was a history major. I have worked as an admin, a dining hall worker at a college, as a very junior researcher for a nonprofit, as a bookstore worker, and fell into a job as an editor. I've also worked at Whole Foods. Now I work as a web person and kind-of editor for another non-profit. I've known other history majors who have gone into public policy, medicine, finance, real estate, etc.
I had what seemed like a very good on-campus interview with the CIA, back in the day - I had an aptitude for languages and had lived abroad as a child, and they seemed to like that a lot. (Until I asked why they had mined harbors in Nicaragua. The interview was ended abruptly.)
Take advantage of any and all career services at your school, and stop telling yourself stories about how useless you are. Those stories will do you no good. You don't have to figure out what to do with your whole life, just with the part that needs a job for the next little while.
Do not go to grad school as a holding pattern, even if it's free, unless there's a very clear and quite certain job at the end of it.
posted by rtha at 12:40 PM on April 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I had what seemed like a very good on-campus interview with the CIA, back in the day - I had an aptitude for languages and had lived abroad as a child, and they seemed to like that a lot. (Until I asked why they had mined harbors in Nicaragua. The interview was ended abruptly.)
Take advantage of any and all career services at your school, and stop telling yourself stories about how useless you are. Those stories will do you no good. You don't have to figure out what to do with your whole life, just with the part that needs a job for the next little while.
Do not go to grad school as a holding pattern, even if it's free, unless there's a very clear and quite certain job at the end of it.
posted by rtha at 12:40 PM on April 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
You're professors are wrong. The job market for History PhDs is indeed bad, but if you go to a top school, publish, and produce an interesting dissertation, you will more than likely get a job.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:40 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:40 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
When I hear "history and international studies," I think of NGOs and policy thinktanks. Amnesty International, that sort of thing. Assuming it would mesh with your politics, that's where the professional-thinking jobs are now.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:40 PM on April 4, 2013
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:40 PM on April 4, 2013
I have a shitty job that I hate wherein I make a shitty amount of money with no benefits.
What is that job? What field? What type of position is it? What do you hate about it? What do you wish you were doing instead?
In my experience, what your degree is in has little or no bearing on what kind of job you should do after earning said degree.
Figure out where your skills lie, and how those skills intersect with things you wouldn't totally hate doing. Bonus points if you can position the center of that venn diagram over something that would likely pay a living wage.
posted by Sara C. at 12:55 PM on April 4, 2013
What is that job? What field? What type of position is it? What do you hate about it? What do you wish you were doing instead?
In my experience, what your degree is in has little or no bearing on what kind of job you should do after earning said degree.
Figure out where your skills lie, and how those skills intersect with things you wouldn't totally hate doing. Bonus points if you can position the center of that venn diagram over something that would likely pay a living wage.
posted by Sara C. at 12:55 PM on April 4, 2013
If research and writing come natural for you, perhaps a Paralegal course? Most junior colleges offer affordable three semester programs. There are many niche paralegal positions for people with brains that pay relatively well.
posted by readery at 12:56 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by readery at 12:56 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Go on indeed.com and search for jobs in the nearest decently-sized city to you that is, relatively speaking, not economically depressed. Search for jobs in the $30,000 - $50,000 range. Just read them. That will give you a sense of the kinds of entry-level professional jobs that are out there in your area. Then, apply to all the ones that ask for liberal arts undergraduate degrees. (Ignore which major they are asking for).
Why don't you think finding a job that way is a realistic thing to do?
I will say that as another recent graduate, I honestly didn't think finding a job this way a realistic thing to do. Even with a pretty decent resume from student jobs and internships. I am actually kind of buoyed by this thread. Everyone has just told me how impossible it is and I've been pretty resigned to poverty for awhile now.
You're professors are wrong. The job market for History PhDs is indeed bad, but if you go to a top school, publish, and produce an interesting dissertation, you will more than likely get a job.
This is true too? Jesus fucking Christ. I feel like I need a cold shower.
... OP, I'm in the same boat, I know exactly how you feel. I'm from a working class background, actually did go to a top college, and then immediately moved home and looked for barista and waitress and bank teller jobs because I thought it would be impossible to find legitimate employment over $30k. I don't know what else to say, except that personally, I would do absolutely everything within my power to secure employment with benefits from between $30k-50k, if that is at all plausible in your current area. That will give you such a strong foundation and independence. If you have a career center at your university, check in with them, too. Wow, this was like the mood boost I needed for the day.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:05 PM on April 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Why don't you think finding a job that way is a realistic thing to do?
I will say that as another recent graduate, I honestly didn't think finding a job this way a realistic thing to do. Even with a pretty decent resume from student jobs and internships. I am actually kind of buoyed by this thread. Everyone has just told me how impossible it is and I've been pretty resigned to poverty for awhile now.
You're professors are wrong. The job market for History PhDs is indeed bad, but if you go to a top school, publish, and produce an interesting dissertation, you will more than likely get a job.
This is true too? Jesus fucking Christ. I feel like I need a cold shower.
... OP, I'm in the same boat, I know exactly how you feel. I'm from a working class background, actually did go to a top college, and then immediately moved home and looked for barista and waitress and bank teller jobs because I thought it would be impossible to find legitimate employment over $30k. I don't know what else to say, except that personally, I would do absolutely everything within my power to secure employment with benefits from between $30k-50k, if that is at all plausible in your current area. That will give you such a strong foundation and independence. If you have a career center at your university, check in with them, too. Wow, this was like the mood boost I needed for the day.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:05 PM on April 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I am a history major. I now work in marketing. I know other history majors who work in project management, program management, and various other types of mid-level management positions in companies large and small (somebody has to manage all those STEM graduates, after all). Nobody wants to be these sorts of things when they grow up, but they pay well and are perfectly achievable for you.
It's a cliche, but if your liberal arts degree has taught you to analyze information, write well and think clearly, you are very, very, very employable.
posted by psycheslamp at 1:08 PM on April 4, 2013 [9 favorites]
It's a cliche, but if your liberal arts degree has taught you to analyze information, write well and think clearly, you are very, very, very employable.
posted by psycheslamp at 1:08 PM on April 4, 2013 [9 favorites]
It's a cliche, but if your liberal arts degree has taught you to analyze information, write well and think clearly, you are very, very, very employable.
Oh man... this is so true. The skill is being able to translate your research skills beyond essays and homework and even history. I was a history major. Now I'm a librarian but most of my actual work and skills, the thinking analytically and such, is stuff I got from my undergrad. Grad school and working has helped me refine it.
So play up those skills if you can.
posted by kendrak at 1:15 PM on April 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Oh man... this is so true. The skill is being able to translate your research skills beyond essays and homework and even history. I was a history major. Now I'm a librarian but most of my actual work and skills, the thinking analytically and such, is stuff I got from my undergrad. Grad school and working has helped me refine it.
So play up those skills if you can.
posted by kendrak at 1:15 PM on April 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
With two years doing research beyond a BA in History, you can meet the Secretary of Interior's Standards as a Professional Historian. People meeting the Secretary's Standards get jobs in government and the private sector, working as consultants and researchers on projects in nearly every industry.
Look up The American Cultural Resources Association for examples of businesses that hire historians.
And even if you didn't qualify as a professional historian, there are certainly jobs in all sorts of consulting fields for people who can research, think, and write.
posted by suelac at 1:29 PM on April 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Look up The American Cultural Resources Association for examples of businesses that hire historians.
And even if you didn't qualify as a professional historian, there are certainly jobs in all sorts of consulting fields for people who can research, think, and write.
posted by suelac at 1:29 PM on April 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have a BFA in Theatre Management and have been gainfully employed since the summer I graduated. You'll be fine, I swear. I would not, however, recommend going straight to an MPA program after graduation. I'm working on my MPA now and I've found that my classmates who came into the program without any work experience are definitely struggling more and don't seem to be getting as much out of the degree as I do.
I feel like everyone says it in every one of these questions, but seriously: nonprofits. Nonprofits do not care where your degree is from or what it's in. They care that you're smart, care about the mission, and are able to help their organization keep doing its good work. Look into development and communications for nonprofits. There are a million development jobs out there and it can easily become a great career.
posted by anotheraccount at 1:33 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
I feel like everyone says it in every one of these questions, but seriously: nonprofits. Nonprofits do not care where your degree is from or what it's in. They care that you're smart, care about the mission, and are able to help their organization keep doing its good work. Look into development and communications for nonprofits. There are a million development jobs out there and it can easily become a great career.
posted by anotheraccount at 1:33 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't see public school teaching listed here, but for what it's worth I can say from experience that it's a TERRIBLE job market. I'm a history major with a history and language arts credential (also from a state u in CA). It was an awful job market in CA, and it's an awful job market in WA. I've been subbing for a very long time, and it's only because I live in Seattle that I can make ends meet with that -- my sister subs in the LA/OC area, and she's not doing so well.
Do you have any passions or hobbies that could translate into secondary income?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:57 PM on April 4, 2013
Do you have any passions or hobbies that could translate into secondary income?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:57 PM on April 4, 2013
I shared your paragraph about History PhDs that work at Starbucks with my fiance who is a PhD candidate at Yale (because I'm mean, I guess?) and this was his response:
Yeah, the market is suck. The Yale placement statistics are not bad, but I'm not holding my breath for a tenure track job.
None of that has to do with the history BA, though, of which I'm a big fan. History BA sets you up for a broad range of things, from criminal justice and journalism to libraries, archives, teaching, foreign service. See here. So, really, the question this kid should be asking is not "what can I do with my history BA" but "what do I want to do with my life?" If he doesn't know that answer, I highly recommend a work abroad program, which benefited me greatly.
Also, I have a BA in Liberal Arts from a tiny college in Vermont that doesn't even have grades or tests or majors and I have a very well-paying job.
posted by eunoia at 2:21 PM on April 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Yeah, the market is suck. The Yale placement statistics are not bad, but I'm not holding my breath for a tenure track job.
None of that has to do with the history BA, though, of which I'm a big fan. History BA sets you up for a broad range of things, from criminal justice and journalism to libraries, archives, teaching, foreign service. See here. So, really, the question this kid should be asking is not "what can I do with my history BA" but "what do I want to do with my life?" If he doesn't know that answer, I highly recommend a work abroad program, which benefited me greatly.
Also, I have a BA in Liberal Arts from a tiny college in Vermont that doesn't even have grades or tests or majors and I have a very well-paying job.
posted by eunoia at 2:21 PM on April 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
A best friend of mine just accepted an offer to teach English in Japan. He also holds a History BA from.....Denison, I think? He did spend a year and a half abroad in Japan and speaks Japanese fairly well and of course that helped qualify him, but if going abroad is something that's interesting to you learning a language and applying for a position overseas may not be a bad idea.
posted by InsanePenguin at 2:24 PM on April 4, 2013
posted by InsanePenguin at 2:24 PM on April 4, 2013
I have a BA in history (minor in Political Economy) and an MS in Historic Preservation. I work as an apartment manager. Is my career totally awesome? no. do i like my job? yes, most days. It's actually easy most of the time and it allows me to be home in the afternoons with my kid.
this may be hopefully or depressing news.
posted by vespabelle at 2:50 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
this may be hopefully or depressing news.
posted by vespabelle at 2:50 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have a BA in History.
I think your next step is to figure out what you want to do in five years. What really interested in in college?
You're a good student, maybe you could be a teacher. Teachers are typically people who did well in school (I got a BEd after my BA).
But find a profession that seems interesting and somewhat lucrative, and start working towards it NOW.
Don't waste time in dead-end service industry jobs. If you do take that job, spend every single waking moment, your heart and soul, striving to achieve that goal that you really want to do.
Don't take a breather. Don't waste your time. Work hard, hit the ground running.
The first step is trying to figure out what the heck it is you like to do, and how to get paid for it.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:07 PM on April 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think your next step is to figure out what you want to do in five years. What really interested in in college?
You're a good student, maybe you could be a teacher. Teachers are typically people who did well in school (I got a BEd after my BA).
But find a profession that seems interesting and somewhat lucrative, and start working towards it NOW.
Don't waste time in dead-end service industry jobs. If you do take that job, spend every single waking moment, your heart and soul, striving to achieve that goal that you really want to do.
Don't take a breather. Don't waste your time. Work hard, hit the ground running.
The first step is trying to figure out what the heck it is you like to do, and how to get paid for it.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:07 PM on April 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I was going to suggest CIA too, because I believe history is one of the majors they specifically list for entry-level jobs. I would think your International Studies emphasis would be a plus there too.
National Archives is another government agency that might have jobs related to your degree. One thing about federal jobs, there is a Student Loan Repayment Program that may be offered as an incentive.
If you haven't already, I suggest going to as many career fairs as possible and talk to recruiters. A good recruiter should be able to give you some idea of the work environment and career prospects in their industry.
Good luck, I wish you well!
posted by auntie maim at 4:43 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
National Archives is another government agency that might have jobs related to your degree. One thing about federal jobs, there is a Student Loan Repayment Program that may be offered as an incentive.
If you haven't already, I suggest going to as many career fairs as possible and talk to recruiters. A good recruiter should be able to give you some idea of the work environment and career prospects in their industry.
Good luck, I wish you well!
posted by auntie maim at 4:43 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
The National Park Service has teamed up with my college lately to try to raise interest in the parks from a younger generation. Might be a useful place to for a historian to look for a career.
posted by bizzyb at 5:05 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by bizzyb at 5:05 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
You're professors are wrong. The job market for History PhDs is indeed bad, but if you go to a top school, publish, and produce an interesting dissertation, you will more than likely get a job.
This isn't a lie. I have a friend who finished a history doctorate at Yale and had an immediate job at a top school.
In other news, I agree that your reading and writing skills should be something you highlight. Personally, I would look into research at think tanks like Rand and research-based consulting companies like RTI and Macro. Those companies are constantly hiring junior staff people to help with tasks like lit reviews, environmental scans, etc. you'll probably earn around $35-40000. However, you'll have to move. I would investigate if any alums of your school work at places like this and try to get their help. Seriously, junior staff funnel in and out of those jobs as most do it as a stop off on the way to grad school. So, there are frequently open positions. A conference featuring research activities is a good way to go to their booth and get a contact for an interview.
posted by superfille at 5:07 PM on April 4, 2013
This isn't a lie. I have a friend who finished a history doctorate at Yale and had an immediate job at a top school.
In other news, I agree that your reading and writing skills should be something you highlight. Personally, I would look into research at think tanks like Rand and research-based consulting companies like RTI and Macro. Those companies are constantly hiring junior staff people to help with tasks like lit reviews, environmental scans, etc. you'll probably earn around $35-40000. However, you'll have to move. I would investigate if any alums of your school work at places like this and try to get their help. Seriously, junior staff funnel in and out of those jobs as most do it as a stop off on the way to grad school. So, there are frequently open positions. A conference featuring research activities is a good way to go to their booth and get a contact for an interview.
posted by superfille at 5:07 PM on April 4, 2013
I have a History degree, and I work in finance.
posted by Ruki at 5:16 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Ruki at 5:16 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have a BA in communication from a mediocre state school. I work in the media office for a global nonprofit in DC. Previously I worked in research and policy for a different major nonprofit. At my last job, most of my colleagues had degrees from impressive universities and colleges, including the Ivy League. At my current organization, I could not tell you where most of my colleagues studied.
I paid my dues for a few years and each step, though not planned, put me in a good position for the next. You have a lot more options than you realize.
posted by kat518 at 5:48 PM on April 4, 2013
I paid my dues for a few years and each step, though not planned, put me in a good position for the next. You have a lot more options than you realize.
posted by kat518 at 5:48 PM on April 4, 2013
I have a liberal arts degree and graduated with no job. I got a crap job to tide me over and scoured Monster.com and similar sites and went on endless interviews until I got a job as a business analyst consultant for a software company. I now have a career.
The market sucks, and it's tough to be in your shoes. Follow the advice in this thread. There are jobs out there for recent grads, once you begin to narrow down what you want to to and what you are good at.
posted by PCup at 5:52 PM on April 4, 2013
The market sucks, and it's tough to be in your shoes. Follow the advice in this thread. There are jobs out there for recent grads, once you begin to narrow down what you want to to and what you are good at.
posted by PCup at 5:52 PM on April 4, 2013
Have you considered product or project management. You can get a project management certificate and parlay your writing skills and other liberal arts stuff into significant value. You might also look at marketing.
posted by humanfont at 6:53 PM on April 4, 2013
posted by humanfont at 6:53 PM on April 4, 2013
How are you with the public? And public speaking? It's spring, and America's history museums are hiring for summer seasonal historic interpreters. If you are smart and have talent, you may quickly parlay that into a year-round, supervisory job.
posted by Miko at 7:38 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:38 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you're still as passionate about history as you were in your earlier post (and I guess you are, or not doing a PhD wouldn't be as disappointing as it is), if you don't luck into a job with a museum or archive (and I think you should really try to get one of those), volunteer for a historical organization you could see yourself caring about. If you're good + a bit lucky, it could lay the groundwork for career possibilities down the line. Even if no actual job comes of it, it's a way of staying connected with something you see as essential to your sense of self (i.e. could be fun).
posted by nelljie at 10:35 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by nelljie at 10:35 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Graduate school is a *terrible* idea. I know because I went, and I left early with a master's degree after developing a sufficient appreciation of the realities of the job market. Law school is *even worse*, and if your current debt load makes you sweat, imaging quadrupling it and trying to live on less than $50k/year, which is about the median income for law school graduates this past decade. Everyone has friends who got good jobs after finishing graduate school or law school (so do I), but don't let this kind of anecdotal evidence convince you. Look at the numbers. The situation is obvious.
The only thing you can do is put yourself out there and keep trying to make it. Try to land an editorial or tutoring gig to pay the bills while you apply to better-paying jobs. Getting your foot in the door somewhere is better than doing nothing. There are plenty of employers who need someone with writing and analytical skills.
posted by twblalock at 11:00 PM on April 4, 2013
The only thing you can do is put yourself out there and keep trying to make it. Try to land an editorial or tutoring gig to pay the bills while you apply to better-paying jobs. Getting your foot in the door somewhere is better than doing nothing. There are plenty of employers who need someone with writing and analytical skills.
posted by twblalock at 11:00 PM on April 4, 2013
I have a BA in English and History and an MA in American Studies. I make a comfortable living as a book editor at an art museum (where virtually every one of my colleagues has a degree in the humanities as well); I started out as a copywriter and proofreader in business/insurance publishing and gradually worked my way up and into a cool career that I actually wanted. (And I almost certainly would have been able to get on the same track without the MA, so it wasn't two years of grad school that helped do the trick.) So maybe jobs in the editorial/publications world (editing, proofreading, indexing, rights & reproductions research, etc.) might be something to consider.
posted by scody at 11:13 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by scody at 11:13 PM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Take advantage of any and all career services at your school, and stop telling yourself stories about how useless you are. Those stories will do you no good. You don't have to figure out what to do with your whole life, just with the part that needs a job for the next little while."
So true. I did Ancient History (at a UK university), and the struggle was to work out what I wanted to do. You have a good education to a high level, and a trifling amount of debt (in the big scheme of things). Work out what actually interests you - or alternatively have a target role in mind - and then work out how to get there.
Bar being a quant, a rocket scientist or Angelina Jolie, the world is actually your oyster. Go and scoop that baby.
posted by lucullus at 12:36 AM on April 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
So true. I did Ancient History (at a UK university), and the struggle was to work out what I wanted to do. You have a good education to a high level, and a trifling amount of debt (in the big scheme of things). Work out what actually interests you - or alternatively have a target role in mind - and then work out how to get there.
Bar being a quant, a rocket scientist or Angelina Jolie, the world is actually your oyster. Go and scoop that baby.
posted by lucullus at 12:36 AM on April 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Presumably you have an interest in history and presumably after finishing the BA you have an interest in certain aspects of history. Presumably. So what did you learn in the last four years? Did your degree teach you facts and the skills of cramming for exams or did you learn how to do academic research and writing papers? Because researching and writing is useful. Very few jobs will require you to know the battles of the Civil War and the dates or order they happened. IMHO, a good student is someone who can research on their own and write damned good papers that people want to read.
Grad school can be used to get a job as a professor somewhere or it can be used to learn how to research and write more complex articles and even books. People can make money as freelance writers or as authors of books or as lecturers. Some people can make a living doing that without having to commute to a 9-5 job. It helps to do what you like but also to like what you do. If you like history and want to make a living writing about history then maybe forget about the Public Admin degree and go to a good grad school for the type of history you really like. Maybe you can even get a free ride based on those good grades you have.
In the mean time start researching in archives and writing more about the history that interests you, whether it is Civil War, immigration, politics, or whatever. Dig around and become an expert on something. Even if you decide not to choose that as a career path you still have it and it is still useful. You still can make extra money knowing things other people do not. Capitalize on that and get a job as a tour guide presenting your research about a place rather than wasting time splashing coffee in a cup at a Starbucks. I know plenty of creative people who run a lucrative side business giving walking tours and marketing via free social media.
posted by JJ86 at 6:04 AM on April 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Grad school can be used to get a job as a professor somewhere or it can be used to learn how to research and write more complex articles and even books. People can make money as freelance writers or as authors of books or as lecturers. Some people can make a living doing that without having to commute to a 9-5 job. It helps to do what you like but also to like what you do. If you like history and want to make a living writing about history then maybe forget about the Public Admin degree and go to a good grad school for the type of history you really like. Maybe you can even get a free ride based on those good grades you have.
In the mean time start researching in archives and writing more about the history that interests you, whether it is Civil War, immigration, politics, or whatever. Dig around and become an expert on something. Even if you decide not to choose that as a career path you still have it and it is still useful. You still can make extra money knowing things other people do not. Capitalize on that and get a job as a tour guide presenting your research about a place rather than wasting time splashing coffee in a cup at a Starbucks. I know plenty of creative people who run a lucrative side business giving walking tours and marketing via free social media.
posted by JJ86 at 6:04 AM on April 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, grad school is not a now or never proposition. In some ways, it is easier to coast right into graduate school from undergrad, when your life is presumably less complicated with jobs and relationships and geography. But I did not do that, and went back to graduate school starting in my late 30s. For me it is slower process, and one of juggling work and school, but it's much more valuable because I'm studying in a field I actually didn't know existed when I graduated from college. A decade or so working and exploring my career thoroughly sharpened my interests and I return with a great deal of motivation, and a sense of purpose for my MA studies, beyond "will this get me a job." So it's not the end of the road if you don't go now. It's even possible to go later in life and become a full professor, though if you want to become a professor, it may be advisable to go on through it now regardless of what advisors say.
Advisors are often wrong. just as a side note. I understand why they are cautioning you. But it's important to consider whether the caution comes more from their sense that you in particular won't stand out in the scholarly field in the way that is currently helpful to those getting hired (media-friendly, digital-humanities-skilled, prolific publisher, good speaker and teacher), or their general pessimism about the field. If it's just the latter, take it with a grain of salt. Things are bad now, but the skills are transferable, and I personally think the knowledge is going to become more, not less, valuable.
posted by Miko at 6:35 AM on April 5, 2013
Advisors are often wrong. just as a side note. I understand why they are cautioning you. But it's important to consider whether the caution comes more from their sense that you in particular won't stand out in the scholarly field in the way that is currently helpful to those getting hired (media-friendly, digital-humanities-skilled, prolific publisher, good speaker and teacher), or their general pessimism about the field. If it's just the latter, take it with a grain of salt. Things are bad now, but the skills are transferable, and I personally think the knowledge is going to become more, not less, valuable.
posted by Miko at 6:35 AM on April 5, 2013
Your professors are wrong. The job market for History PhDs is indeed bad, but if you go to a top school, publish, and produce an interesting dissertation, you will more than likely get a job.
Going to a top school and publishing is no guarantee.
"Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go" in the Chronicle
"Getting a literature Ph.D. will turn you into an emotional trainwreck, not a professor" from Slate.com (just published this week!)
"Enlightening Advisees" from the Chronicle
Be careful not to pursue librarianship either, which is also suffering an oversupply of new librarians looking for work.
Having said all this, there are so many great things you can do. Instead of thinking of what you are trained to do, think about what you want to do. There are lots of interesting jobs out there that you've probably never heard of.
Good luck.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:20 PM on April 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Going to a top school and publishing is no guarantee.
"Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go" in the Chronicle
"Getting a literature Ph.D. will turn you into an emotional trainwreck, not a professor" from Slate.com (just published this week!)
"Enlightening Advisees" from the Chronicle
Be careful not to pursue librarianship either, which is also suffering an oversupply of new librarians looking for work.
Having said all this, there are so many great things you can do. Instead of thinking of what you are trained to do, think about what you want to do. There are lots of interesting jobs out there that you've probably never heard of.
Good luck.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:20 PM on April 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Go to One Net. Search by "Cognitive Abilities." Choose the categories resonate with you. For example-- Deductive Reasoning, Information Ordering, Written Expression.
Go to the search results for each Cognitive Ability, and select "see all jobs." On the right side, some of the jobs are marked with a yellow sun. Those jobs have a bright outlook-- with growth forecasted into the future. Select any job with planning or analysis skills in the title-- Business Analyst, Intelligence Analyst, Business Continuity Planners, Management Analysts, Fraud Examiners, Investigators and Analysts, Transportation Planners, Market Research Analysts and Marketing Specialists.
For Market Research Analysts, here are the market numbers
Median wages (2011) $28.97 hourly, $60,250 annual
Employment (2010) 283,000 employees
Projected growth (2010-2020) Much faster than average (29% or higher)
Projected job openings (2010-2020) 191,800
Read the list of skills required for each job. Take the text, manipulate the verbiage to match skills you can support, and gussy up your resume. Search for jobs in those fields.
posted by ohshenandoah at 1:21 PM on April 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Go to the search results for each Cognitive Ability, and select "see all jobs." On the right side, some of the jobs are marked with a yellow sun. Those jobs have a bright outlook-- with growth forecasted into the future. Select any job with planning or analysis skills in the title-- Business Analyst, Intelligence Analyst, Business Continuity Planners, Management Analysts, Fraud Examiners, Investigators and Analysts, Transportation Planners, Market Research Analysts and Marketing Specialists.
For Market Research Analysts, here are the market numbers
Median wages (2011) $28.97 hourly, $60,250 annual
Employment (2010) 283,000 employees
Projected growth (2010-2020) Much faster than average (29% or higher)
Projected job openings (2010-2020) 191,800
Read the list of skills required for each job. Take the text, manipulate the verbiage to match skills you can support, and gussy up your resume. Search for jobs in those fields.
posted by ohshenandoah at 1:21 PM on April 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:19 PM on April 4, 2013 [3 favorites]