Maintaining a high mileage car
August 25, 2005 11:59 AM Subscribe
What proactive maintence is worth doing on a car with 120,000 miles on it? I have 2000 VW Golf automatic trans with 120,000 miles on it. Id like the keep the car until it basicly drops say 200,000 miles. Besides the usual oil changes, brake jobs, tires. etc.. whats worth doing to the car to keep it runnings indefinitely. For instance is it worth $900 to change the shocks and struts. Are the various "flushes" worth the cost. Etc etc...
Primarily, I say, make sure you have a good mechanic. How you make sure of that I'm not sure but when I had a high km car (sorry I can't relate to miles) I had a mechanic who would explain what needed to be done and what didn't need to be done as well as what may need to be done in the near future. He'd also explain why and even show me examples. He'd also talk about the known problems with particular car models, including my own of course.
I also got a second opinion to compare and then went with my gut instinct which was easy as one mechanic recommended a whole slew of changes and the other laughed aloud and said it was complete nonsense, they're just trying to generate more revenue. He'd then explain why it was complete nonsense.
My philosophy was if it works, don't fix it. I wouldn't change shocks and struts until they need to be changed and good mechanic can tell you approximately how much life they have left in them under regular conditions (not to mention good mechanics are familiar with various models and what can and often does go wrong.) I was told to change my brakes by one service center and that I had approximately another 30 000km by my mechanic. He was correct. I got them looked at again at 25 000. They still had a little life in them, but I changed that at that time anyway.
Flushes are a subject of debate. Quite a few feel they are entirely worthless and maybe even damaging. One of the best things you can do for an engine is keep it running, with the proper fluids changed at appropriate intervals of course. Flushes may be valuable for an engine that has been parked for months for example.
Unfortunately, keeping you car healthy is similar to keeping your body healthy in the sense that you'll hear all manner of entirely conflicting opinions and advice.
Getting the regular wear items changed when appropriate is always good. Brakes, caps, timing belts, etc.
posted by juiceCake at 12:23 PM on August 25, 2005
I also got a second opinion to compare and then went with my gut instinct which was easy as one mechanic recommended a whole slew of changes and the other laughed aloud and said it was complete nonsense, they're just trying to generate more revenue. He'd then explain why it was complete nonsense.
My philosophy was if it works, don't fix it. I wouldn't change shocks and struts until they need to be changed and good mechanic can tell you approximately how much life they have left in them under regular conditions (not to mention good mechanics are familiar with various models and what can and often does go wrong.) I was told to change my brakes by one service center and that I had approximately another 30 000km by my mechanic. He was correct. I got them looked at again at 25 000. They still had a little life in them, but I changed that at that time anyway.
Flushes are a subject of debate. Quite a few feel they are entirely worthless and maybe even damaging. One of the best things you can do for an engine is keep it running, with the proper fluids changed at appropriate intervals of course. Flushes may be valuable for an engine that has been parked for months for example.
Unfortunately, keeping you car healthy is similar to keeping your body healthy in the sense that you'll hear all manner of entirely conflicting opinions and advice.
Getting the regular wear items changed when appropriate is always good. Brakes, caps, timing belts, etc.
posted by juiceCake at 12:23 PM on August 25, 2005
Flushes are a subject of debate. Quite a few feel they are entirely worthless and maybe even damaging.
Replacing old fluids (which generally requires the old fluid to be flushed out) is most certainly not worthless or damaging. But you're right that the severity of the different maintenance items definately depends on the vehicle in question. For example, with my list above, your brake and fuel lines will generally last far longer than your coolant hoses, so it makes sense to check/replace those first. Timing belts last longer than plug lines, which last longer than spark plugs, etc.
Of course, you have to balance the cost with the cost of failure. For example, brake fluid will just get older and cruddier, but unless there's a leak, you're not going to have to worry much about losing your brakes. On the other hand, if your car has an interference-type engine (don't know with the VW) a broken timing belt (maybe $150 to replace) means a whole new motor (maybe $2500 to replace).
My philosophy was if it works, don't fix it.
Fixing something broken is different than maintaining something not broken. For example, the simplest, cheapest way to ensure your engine lasts for half a million miles is to just replace the oil on a regular schedule. So simple, right? With the "ain't broke" philosophy, one might just look at the dipstick, say, "Hey, there's enough oil, and the engine sounds fine" which is seriously poor economy.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:57 PM on August 25, 2005
Replacing old fluids (which generally requires the old fluid to be flushed out) is most certainly not worthless or damaging. But you're right that the severity of the different maintenance items definately depends on the vehicle in question. For example, with my list above, your brake and fuel lines will generally last far longer than your coolant hoses, so it makes sense to check/replace those first. Timing belts last longer than plug lines, which last longer than spark plugs, etc.
Of course, you have to balance the cost with the cost of failure. For example, brake fluid will just get older and cruddier, but unless there's a leak, you're not going to have to worry much about losing your brakes. On the other hand, if your car has an interference-type engine (don't know with the VW) a broken timing belt (maybe $150 to replace) means a whole new motor (maybe $2500 to replace).
My philosophy was if it works, don't fix it.
Fixing something broken is different than maintaining something not broken. For example, the simplest, cheapest way to ensure your engine lasts for half a million miles is to just replace the oil on a regular schedule. So simple, right? With the "ain't broke" philosophy, one might just look at the dipstick, say, "Hey, there's enough oil, and the engine sounds fine" which is seriously poor economy.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:57 PM on August 25, 2005
I don't have a lot to add to what other people have said here. My basic advice is, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I learned this the hard way. (ignored an oil leak until my car caught on fire on the highway, in traffic. seriously caught on fire. very large flames. entire car consumed.) If you want your car to last a long time the easy thing to do is follow the manufacturer's recommended maintenence schedule. It should be listed in your owner's manual. Dealing with all of that stuff in a timely way, as recommended, will keep your car running forever. Usually there's a "normal" and a "severe" schedule. For some of the cheaper things (oil, etc), I follow the severe schedule; it can't hurt, and it doesn't cost a lot more over the long term. Find a good VW owners' forum on the web, and hang out there. When you start hearing a strange squeak or whatever, post about it. Find out what it is. Get it fixed as quickly as possible. This may mean that your car is in the shop "a lot," but the idea is for each visit to cost less, and be on your own schedule, versus the big expensive surprises.
posted by autojack at 1:22 PM on August 25, 2005
posted by autojack at 1:22 PM on August 25, 2005
You can get many of your maintenance questions answered in the VWVortex forums.
Can be juvenile at times but lots of good info there. Especially helpful if you want to do things yourself.
posted by white_devil at 1:29 PM on August 25, 2005
Can be juvenile at times but lots of good info there. Especially helpful if you want to do things yourself.
posted by white_devil at 1:29 PM on August 25, 2005
Modern VW's between the myriad problems and the high cost of parts, I'd suspect you'd be better off buying another used car and saving yourself the money/hassle over the next 80K miles.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:33 PM on August 25, 2005
posted by Pollomacho at 1:33 PM on August 25, 2005
Replacing old fluids (which generally requires the old fluid to be flushed out) is most certainly not worthless or damaging.
Of course. However, I took flush to mean using a flushing solvent not simply changing fluids. It was to these flushing solvents I was referring to, not the process of changing fluids that need changing. Of that there is no debate obviously.
posted by juiceCake at 2:42 PM on August 25, 2005
Of course. However, I took flush to mean using a flushing solvent not simply changing fluids. It was to these flushing solvents I was referring to, not the process of changing fluids that need changing. Of that there is no debate obviously.
posted by juiceCake at 2:42 PM on August 25, 2005
Fixing something broken is different than maintaining something not broken. For example, the simplest, cheapest way to ensure your engine lasts for half a million miles is to just replace the oil on a regular schedule. So simple, right? With the "ain't broke" philosophy, one might just look at the dipstick, say, "Hey, there's enough oil, and the engine sounds fine" which is seriously poor economy.
Of course it is, and I said as much. Change the regular wear items. I'm not sure how you get the idea that I'm advocating a "hey, there's enough oil and the engine sounds fine" philosophy when I specifically referred to checking systems and parts with a knowledgeable mechanic to make a judgement rather than just change things willy nilly, like your entire suspension.
posted by juiceCake at 2:44 PM on August 25, 2005
Of course it is, and I said as much. Change the regular wear items. I'm not sure how you get the idea that I'm advocating a "hey, there's enough oil and the engine sounds fine" philosophy when I specifically referred to checking systems and parts with a knowledgeable mechanic to make a judgement rather than just change things willy nilly, like your entire suspension.
posted by juiceCake at 2:44 PM on August 25, 2005
If the car has a timing belt make sure you get it changed at the recommended mileage. If the timing belt breaks you've got much bigger problems than just a broken belt. A broken timing belt general means a new head, valves and valve springs. I belive the repairs needed after a broken belt are in the neighborhood of $1,500 .
posted by Carbolic at 3:17 PM on August 25, 2005
posted by Carbolic at 3:17 PM on August 25, 2005
Hey. The spell checker doesn't catch "belive". Believe..
posted by Carbolic at 3:19 PM on August 25, 2005
posted by Carbolic at 3:19 PM on August 25, 2005
A rule of thumb is that if you half the factory recommended service internals your vehicle will last forever. With that said, and with some care on your part, 200K on a Golf is easy, 300K would be a suitable goal.
Change the fluids. Change the filter in your automatic transmission at the same time you change the fluid, as it's a good time and way to inspect the transmission, make sure there's no metal in the pan, that sort of thing.
Coolant systems and all that, defiantly.
This plan isn't full proof, bearings and bushings still wear out, but by being proactive about maintenance your car should last you quite a while. Read the owners manual for a full description of what should be done and when.
Witness how they do it on airliners: They change fluids and filters, inspect structures and systems, at regular intervals and get very long service out of them.
posted by Elvis at 3:23 PM on August 25, 2005
Change the fluids. Change the filter in your automatic transmission at the same time you change the fluid, as it's a good time and way to inspect the transmission, make sure there's no metal in the pan, that sort of thing.
Coolant systems and all that, defiantly.
This plan isn't full proof, bearings and bushings still wear out, but by being proactive about maintenance your car should last you quite a while. Read the owners manual for a full description of what should be done and when.
Witness how they do it on airliners: They change fluids and filters, inspect structures and systems, at regular intervals and get very long service out of them.
posted by Elvis at 3:23 PM on August 25, 2005
For those who care whether a particular engine will fail catastrophically in the event of a snapped timing belt, I suggest this reference.
posted by Kwantsar at 3:41 PM on August 25, 2005
posted by Kwantsar at 3:41 PM on August 25, 2005
The timing belt thing I learned the hard way...cost me $500 and it never ran worth a damn after that.
posted by Mack Twain at 4:09 PM on August 25, 2005
posted by Mack Twain at 4:09 PM on August 25, 2005
changing the oil is a great way to bond with your car
Please, Please do NOT pour your used oil down the drain. You can take it to most any oil change center and they will recycle it for you.
posted by nimsey lou at 6:53 PM on August 25, 2005
Please, Please do NOT pour your used oil down the drain. You can take it to most any oil change center and they will recycle it for you.
posted by nimsey lou at 6:53 PM on August 25, 2005
re: timing belt.
Word to making sure you replace it on time. I got Carbolic's problem when I heard a loud clicking/thunking noise. Dumbass me didn't bring it to the shop ASAP and so'nuff, it was my timing belt along with the head gaskets and valves costing me in the range of 1200.
posted by jmd82 at 7:16 PM on August 25, 2005
Word to making sure you replace it on time. I got Carbolic's problem when I heard a loud clicking/thunking noise. Dumbass me didn't bring it to the shop ASAP and so'nuff, it was my timing belt along with the head gaskets and valves costing me in the range of 1200.
posted by jmd82 at 7:16 PM on August 25, 2005
Timing belt, tranny fluid. Nix on shocks and struts until the car starts feeling like a boat when you turn. Watch out for places that like to turn the rotors and drums too much, you are not heading for the Indy 500; for a daily driver I would not even mess with it.
posted by buzzman at 9:05 PM on August 25, 2005
posted by buzzman at 9:05 PM on August 25, 2005
However, I took flush to mean using a flushing solvent not simply changing fluids.
Ah, ok. Yeah, don't do that. The only stuff that should be going through the hoses is the stuff you want in the hoses. In other words, only brake fuild in brake lines, only water/antifreeze in coolant lines, only gas in fuel lines.
If the timing belt breaks you've got much bigger problems than just a broken belt.
As I stated above, only with interference-type engines. Just some quick Googling led to the info that the VW Diesel engines ARE interference, gas ones aren't. So if you're on a non-diesel VW, you don't have to worry about a broken timing belt destroying your engine. You do have to worry about a broken timing belt leaving you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
Doing some research led me to this diatrabe against VW. Read it.
Please do NOT pour your used oil down the drain.
While this is excellent advice, why were you replying to me when you said it? Are you inferring that people who change their own oil never recycle it? I sure hope not.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:34 PM on August 25, 2005
Ah, ok. Yeah, don't do that. The only stuff that should be going through the hoses is the stuff you want in the hoses. In other words, only brake fuild in brake lines, only water/antifreeze in coolant lines, only gas in fuel lines.
If the timing belt breaks you've got much bigger problems than just a broken belt.
As I stated above, only with interference-type engines. Just some quick Googling led to the info that the VW Diesel engines ARE interference, gas ones aren't. So if you're on a non-diesel VW, you don't have to worry about a broken timing belt destroying your engine. You do have to worry about a broken timing belt leaving you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
Doing some research led me to this diatrabe against VW. Read it.
Please do NOT pour your used oil down the drain.
While this is excellent advice, why were you replying to me when you said it? Are you inferring that people who change their own oil never recycle it? I sure hope not.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:34 PM on August 25, 2005
Everything Civil_Disobedient said. Plus inspect and/or replace your air and fuel filters. (You should be doing this more often than every 120k anyway.)
posted by knave at 12:12 AM on August 26, 2005
posted by knave at 12:12 AM on August 26, 2005
*laughs as her 1992 Ford Mustang just turned over 170,000 miles this week* I keep it maintained and fix whatever needs fixing when it breaks.
posted by cass at 11:14 AM on August 26, 2005
posted by cass at 11:14 AM on August 26, 2005
Did you have the 100K mile service done? If not, schedule it.
posted by suchatreat at 4:28 PM on August 26, 2005
posted by suchatreat at 4:28 PM on August 26, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
A brief generic-car list:
- All fluids: Oil, coolant, brakes, tranny, etc.
- New hoses, particularly coolant hoses, fuel and brake lines.
- Related to above: New seals on everything. Basically anything made of rubber should be changed.
- Also related: New valve gasket
- Timing belt change
- New spark plugs, plug wires
- New shocks: the old ones are probably shot.
Depending on how hard the car was beaten in its previous life, you'll probably also have to do the following at some point:- New water pump
- New fuel pump
- New brakes (possibly new calipers, probably new pads)
- New exhaust (muffler + cat)
You can do a lot of this stuff yourself (really! you can!) and save a shitload of money. Get a service manual, a torque wrench, a couple open wrenches, a couple jackstands and you're set.Start off easy: changing the oil is a great way to bond with your car and get over any initial "I can't do this! Where's the yellow pages?" fears you might have.
is it worth $900 to change the shocks and struts
Eh. VW's aren't cheap, parts-wise. See if you can get refurbished parts on the 'net (see related AskMe question). If you don't feel like installing them yourself (shocks can be dangerous if done improperly) at least you'll save some money on the parts mark-up. $900 sounds about right for a German car. The parts will run you at least half that, new.
Are the various "flushes" worth the cost.
How much is your time worth to you? Most flushes (coolant, brakes) can be done by the DIY'er armed with a service manual. If you don't feel like DIY... well, get ready to bend over. Coolant and brakeline flushes are "worth it" if you intend to actually use the car for anything more than a very large and oily paperweight.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:16 PM on August 25, 2005 [2 favorites]