I need to translate a line into dense Latin
December 11, 2012 10:28 AM Subscribe
I need to translate into short Latin the expression "what was about to be disastrous might have spawned its own remedy and thereby never have come to pass at all” I got “Maleficendum se conrectum, itaque abest,” as a first pass. Is that right?
Ugh. Could you pick a more unweildy phrase?
It's been a long time since I did anything this complicated with Latin, so someone else should check this. This is what I came up with:
utinam funestaturum suum piaculum generaret, non factum esset.
In ugly translation-speak: "would that the thing which was about to [defile with death / destroy] had begotten its own remedy, it would not have come about.
Or, "If only the about-to-destroy thing had created about its own remedy, it might not have taken place"
I believe that the "if only" / utinam at the beginning is necessary for the optative subjunctive construction of the first clause (utinam ... generaret).
And I chose piaculum because it contains senses of both the crime calling out for atonement, and the atonement itself in a way that I think appropriate -- remedium would also work but contains more of a medical flavor.
Other Latinists, please feel free to suggest corrections.
posted by gauche at 12:04 PM on December 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's been a long time since I did anything this complicated with Latin, so someone else should check this. This is what I came up with:
utinam funestaturum suum piaculum generaret, non factum esset.
In ugly translation-speak: "would that the thing which was about to [defile with death / destroy] had begotten its own remedy, it would not have come about.
Or, "If only the about-to-destroy thing had created about its own remedy, it might not have taken place"
I believe that the "if only" / utinam at the beginning is necessary for the optative subjunctive construction of the first clause (utinam ... generaret).
And I chose piaculum because it contains senses of both the crime calling out for atonement, and the atonement itself in a way that I think appropriate -- remedium would also work but contains more of a medical flavor.
Other Latinists, please feel free to suggest corrections.
posted by gauche at 12:04 PM on December 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Edit window closed, but I shouldn't have been snippy about your phrase. I'm sorry.
posted by gauche at 12:09 PM on December 11, 2012
posted by gauche at 12:09 PM on December 11, 2012
Is this for a tattoo or something else permanent? If so, consider hiring a professional Latin scholar. It's only $30 for up to 25 English words.
posted by jedicus at 12:29 PM on December 11, 2012
posted by jedicus at 12:29 PM on December 11, 2012
Response by poster: It's fine to be snippy about the phrase. It is from a novel I am writing. At the end, an act of genetic terrorism spawns (among other things) a group that travels back in time and prevents it from happening at all.
Only a few people know what almost happened, and one of these "witnesses" or "rememberers" is trying to dissimulate to a person who happens to be a classicist. He is not sure if telling the truth openly will undo the fix... Thus the obscurity.
And thanks!
posted by birrellwalsh at 1:03 PM on December 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Only a few people know what almost happened, and one of these "witnesses" or "rememberers" is trying to dissimulate to a person who happens to be a classicist. He is not sure if telling the truth openly will undo the fix... Thus the obscurity.
And thanks!
posted by birrellwalsh at 1:03 PM on December 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
What if you change it to something that is more easily literally translated? Your version has weird tense/mood complications (time travel does that!). Maybe think of a concrete thing with a clear origin point that can be a metaphor for the bad thing you have in mind... eg:
The harvest destroyed the sowing.
The fire consumed itself.
The snake went back to eat its own egg.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:32 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
The harvest destroyed the sowing.
The fire consumed itself.
The snake went back to eat its own egg.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:32 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I *like* the idea of a concrete metaphor that encompasses the paradox. The harvest and the snake are both very close. I would add to it only that the snake or the harvest are good guys
The situation is that the group that goes back - they are called "The Hand" - will be created with intelligence, resourcefulness, this Feynmanesque ability to travel through time, and only one imperative: Save Europe. They are a race weapon in a race war. But through their travels and through watching the devastation in WWII and the one coming in this war-whence-they-come, they conclude that the only way to "win" for their creators, is to prevent the war from happening at all. So they find the madman who started the war and umm do him in - and in the course of that they are of course themselves deleted.
They are not the protagonists of the story; it is among the multicultural protagonists, whom the Hand have gathered to assist them, that this snippet of Latin is spoken.
Does Latin have anything like the "un" prefix in Germanic languages? So one could say something like "The weapon unmade the war"? As you say, the tense/mood/voice complications would be nice to preserve, grammatically or by metaphor.
posted by birrellwalsh at 5:40 PM on December 11, 2012
The situation is that the group that goes back - they are called "The Hand" - will be created with intelligence, resourcefulness, this Feynmanesque ability to travel through time, and only one imperative: Save Europe. They are a race weapon in a race war. But through their travels and through watching the devastation in WWII and the one coming in this war-whence-they-come, they conclude that the only way to "win" for their creators, is to prevent the war from happening at all. So they find the madman who started the war and umm do him in - and in the course of that they are of course themselves deleted.
They are not the protagonists of the story; it is among the multicultural protagonists, whom the Hand have gathered to assist them, that this snippet of Latin is spoken.
Does Latin have anything like the "un" prefix in Germanic languages? So one could say something like "The weapon unmade the war"? As you say, the tense/mood/voice complications would be nice to preserve, grammatically or by metaphor.
posted by birrellwalsh at 5:40 PM on December 11, 2012
Best answer: What about: gravida mater cladis remedium magis ipsae genuit
"The pregnant mother of catastrophe instead gave birth to her/its own remedy."
posted by Theophylactic at 8:49 AM on December 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
"The pregnant mother of catastrophe instead gave birth to her/its own remedy."
posted by Theophylactic at 8:49 AM on December 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh, I do like that!
Placet, as they say down Vatican way. Thank you!
May I credit you, among the footnotes citing the Poetic Eddas (it's that kind of fiction) and such?
Birrell
posted by birrellwalsh at 10:35 AM on December 12, 2012
Placet, as they say down Vatican way. Thank you!
May I credit you, among the footnotes citing the Poetic Eddas (it's that kind of fiction) and such?
Birrell
posted by birrellwalsh at 10:35 AM on December 12, 2012
If you like! Just a friendly neighborhood Latinist helping out a fellow citizen in need. :)
posted by Theophylactic at 7:28 PM on December 12, 2012
posted by Theophylactic at 7:28 PM on December 12, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Theophylactic at 11:02 AM on December 11, 2012