I have the world's sleepiest boyfriend.
December 2, 2012 2:29 PM Subscribe
My boyfriend sleeps all day. It's driving me crazy. What can I do to either stop caring or get him to change his habits?
My boyfriend works from home (we live together) and regularly sleeps until the late afternoon/evening. On a typical day he'll wake up at about 4 or 5 PM, putter around the house for a bit, go back to sleep until 8 PM, and then wake up and work until 5 or 6 in the morning before falling asleep watching Netflix. And repeat. Most days he doesn't even see the sun.
I have a regular 8 to 5 job. I'm up at 7 AM everyday and in bed by 12 or 1 during the week.
At this point we're on opposite schedules which means we don't really have sex, sleep together, eat together, or really do much of anything together. When I'm awake and wanting to do stuff he's asleep. When I'm falling asleep at 2 in the morning he wants sex.
His job doesn't demand nocturnal hours. He's pretty much free to make his own schedule. He complains sometimes about not having enough time in the day. When I point out that this is most likely because he sleeps for 12 hours a day he agrees and changes the subject.
I've tried coaxing him awake with sexytimes, suggesting breakfast or a low-key activity we can do together in the morning, nudging him repeatedly, point blank telling him that it bothers me and asking him to try to wake up earlier (he agrees to try and then just doesn't), all sorts of stuff. None of it has worked. He has a history of depression and he's currently on a generic version of Lexapro which is almost certainly contributing to this situation.
I'm frustrated and at a loss and I feel like I'm nagging him. I don't really know where to go from here. It's been like this for months at this point and it's starting to feel like this is just the new normal in our relationship, which is unfortunate.
My boyfriend works from home (we live together) and regularly sleeps until the late afternoon/evening. On a typical day he'll wake up at about 4 or 5 PM, putter around the house for a bit, go back to sleep until 8 PM, and then wake up and work until 5 or 6 in the morning before falling asleep watching Netflix. And repeat. Most days he doesn't even see the sun.
I have a regular 8 to 5 job. I'm up at 7 AM everyday and in bed by 12 or 1 during the week.
At this point we're on opposite schedules which means we don't really have sex, sleep together, eat together, or really do much of anything together. When I'm awake and wanting to do stuff he's asleep. When I'm falling asleep at 2 in the morning he wants sex.
His job doesn't demand nocturnal hours. He's pretty much free to make his own schedule. He complains sometimes about not having enough time in the day. When I point out that this is most likely because he sleeps for 12 hours a day he agrees and changes the subject.
I've tried coaxing him awake with sexytimes, suggesting breakfast or a low-key activity we can do together in the morning, nudging him repeatedly, point blank telling him that it bothers me and asking him to try to wake up earlier (he agrees to try and then just doesn't), all sorts of stuff. None of it has worked. He has a history of depression and he's currently on a generic version of Lexapro which is almost certainly contributing to this situation.
I'm frustrated and at a loss and I feel like I'm nagging him. I don't really know where to go from here. It's been like this for months at this point and it's starting to feel like this is just the new normal in our relationship, which is unfortunate.
He should probably talk to his therapist. I know that when my depression gets really bad, I basically become nocturnal and end up not seeing the sun for months on end. When my partner starts to notice that I am waking up at 3 or 4PM, and napping again from 7PM to 10PM, he starts to ask questions about how I'm feeling. You need to sit him down and have a serious talk about the status of his mental health and/or its impact on your relationship. Then, he needs to go to the doctor/talk to his therapist.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 2:43 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by SkylitDrawl at 2:43 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'd be really upset if my partner took up this kind of schedule for no apparent reason and was unwilling to change. I think that, in your shoes, I'd want to have a very serious conversation that touched on the following points:
posted by Meg_Murry at 2:45 PM on December 2, 2012 [38 favorites]
- This is a really big deal for me. It makes me very sad to be on opposite schedules without a good reason.
- We've talked about this in the past, but nothing has changed. That's a big problem for me.
- There might be an underlying physical/medical issue (or several), and I am asking you to see your doctor to rule that/those out.
- There might be a psychological issue impacting your sleep, and I am asking you to see your psychiatrist and a therapist to see if there are med adjustments or other ways to address it.
- I don't know where to go from here, but this is beginning to look like a deal-breaker to me. Are you willing to seriously engage with this problem, or do we need to talk about breaking up?
posted by Meg_Murry at 2:45 PM on December 2, 2012 [38 favorites]
Your boyfriend is sleeping more than 12 hours a day. This is not normal, and he needs to speak to his doctor or therapist. When I was on a related drug, I slept up to 20 hours a day (which ended when I switched drugs), so it could be drug-related. It could also be the depression.
posted by jeather at 2:47 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jeather at 2:47 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not to discount the depression concerns, but some people do fine with a nocturnal schedule. Musician Ronnie Hawkins used to say he worked 9 to 5. 9pm to 5am. Maybe your boyfriend needs to nail down his work hours. What time do you get home from work? I suggest that he gets up when you get home from work, then you can have some time together for dinner, talking, sex, etc, then he can get to work and you go off to bed.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 2:51 PM on December 2, 2012
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 2:51 PM on December 2, 2012
This is hypersomnia, if he's sleeping for this many hours:
6am to 4pm (10 hours)
6pm (?) to 8pm (2 hours)
Even 10 hours is bad, but if he's sleeping more than that, he is definitely in the unhealthy category. Hypersomnia is a sign of atypical depression, but that is NOT the only thing that causes it.
A lack of Vitamin D can cause this, and so can sleep apnea, and so can hypothyroidism, and about twenty other things. I suffer from hypersomnia and it's the primary reason I'm on as many medications as I'm on.
In any case, he must tell whoever is prescribing that Lexapro.
Also, as an FYI, Lexapro/Celexa/escitalopram generally does not cause hypersomnia. It causes drowsiness, but it doesn't usually make people sleep this much. I was actually prescribed Lexapro as part of the effort to treat my oversleeping.
posted by Fee Phi Faux Phumb I Smell t'Socks o' a Puppetman! at 3:06 PM on December 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
6am to 4pm (10 hours)
6pm (?) to 8pm (2 hours)
Even 10 hours is bad, but if he's sleeping more than that, he is definitely in the unhealthy category. Hypersomnia is a sign of atypical depression, but that is NOT the only thing that causes it.
A lack of Vitamin D can cause this, and so can sleep apnea, and so can hypothyroidism, and about twenty other things. I suffer from hypersomnia and it's the primary reason I'm on as many medications as I'm on.
In any case, he must tell whoever is prescribing that Lexapro.
Also, as an FYI, Lexapro/Celexa/escitalopram generally does not cause hypersomnia. It causes drowsiness, but it doesn't usually make people sleep this much. I was actually prescribed Lexapro as part of the effort to treat my oversleeping.
posted by Fee Phi Faux Phumb I Smell t'Socks o' a Puppetman! at 3:06 PM on December 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Is this new behavior? It could be depression. Can you make specific plans with him, like, "I miss you, and I'm going to make dinner for us this evening at 7. I'd like it if we could watch (a specific movie) together after dinner." or "My friends are coming over this weekend for game night." Most of all, "I need to talk to you about your health and your sleeping. I'm very concerned."
posted by theora55 at 3:11 PM on December 2, 2012
posted by theora55 at 3:11 PM on December 2, 2012
He just has to get the picture that this is something he needs to actively work on and fix if he wants to continue having a girlfriend. If he can't do those things then he might not be in the right frame of mind to have a girlfriend right now.
posted by bleep at 3:18 PM on December 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by bleep at 3:18 PM on December 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Your boyfriend really needs to see a doctor. They need to check to make sure that he doesn't have any health problems -- either emotional ones, like depression, or physical ones, like type 2 diabetes.
I used to do what your boyfriend does, in a lot of ways. I am an IT guy that works from home for a company that is in another state. Other than a few meetings that happen during the day time, I don't have a set schedule, and work on an 'as needed' basis. I aslo consumed a LOT of carbs and sugar in the form of junk food and soda.
The junk food and soda had caused me to acquire Metabolic Syndrome. Metabolic Syndrome is a cover name for high blood pressure, backwards cholesterol, and type 2 diabetes. Left untreated, it will cause heart failure. They're finding that all of those diseases are related and are possibly also related to alzheimers and other "old folks" diseases. They also happen to cause you to want to sleep for upwards of twelve hours a day, maybe with a nap thrown in there for good measure.
Now, that being said -- once those things are ruled out, I'm still prone to sleeping half the day every once in a while. Being in IT, especially in the type of role where your employer is willing to let you set your own schedule, is incredibly mentally exhausting. I just don't sleep half the day away every single day.
posted by SpecialK at 3:39 PM on December 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I used to do what your boyfriend does, in a lot of ways. I am an IT guy that works from home for a company that is in another state. Other than a few meetings that happen during the day time, I don't have a set schedule, and work on an 'as needed' basis. I aslo consumed a LOT of carbs and sugar in the form of junk food and soda.
The junk food and soda had caused me to acquire Metabolic Syndrome. Metabolic Syndrome is a cover name for high blood pressure, backwards cholesterol, and type 2 diabetes. Left untreated, it will cause heart failure. They're finding that all of those diseases are related and are possibly also related to alzheimers and other "old folks" diseases. They also happen to cause you to want to sleep for upwards of twelve hours a day, maybe with a nap thrown in there for good measure.
Now, that being said -- once those things are ruled out, I'm still prone to sleeping half the day every once in a while. Being in IT, especially in the type of role where your employer is willing to let you set your own schedule, is incredibly mentally exhausting. I just don't sleep half the day away every single day.
posted by SpecialK at 3:39 PM on December 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I have unemployed relatives who simply slip into a nocturnal routine. It seems that as they have no reason to leave the house, they get up later, then usually read or watch TV later because they're not tired. This continues until they've reached the point that they're up all night and sleeping all day. Otherwise they're fine - though you might argue they're depressed because of their circumstance I don't think they're clinically (?) depressed.
Anyway, before pressing the 'he must be sick' button. Why not push for him to change his schedule. Perhaps he could start actually going to an office to work. On the occasions where I've had this option to work from home I've usually ended up going into the office anyway because I just don't have the discipline to keep a good routine at home (not as bad as your boyfriend but heading that way). When I was a one man show - I 'borrowed' a desk in a friends business and called it my office.
posted by Long Way To Go at 4:22 PM on December 2, 2012
Anyway, before pressing the 'he must be sick' button. Why not push for him to change his schedule. Perhaps he could start actually going to an office to work. On the occasions where I've had this option to work from home I've usually ended up going into the office anyway because I just don't have the discipline to keep a good routine at home (not as bad as your boyfriend but heading that way). When I was a one man show - I 'borrowed' a desk in a friends business and called it my office.
posted by Long Way To Go at 4:22 PM on December 2, 2012
Cancel Netflix and Lexapro. Talk to him about work - there may be an issue there. Take your weekends away from the house if possible so he can sleep away from the house (no computers.) Definitely look into his diet and see if you can improve the mix of food in the house. Have more people over if you can to bring the social expectations in on your side. Wage a war on the areas of the house in which he spends time so he feels like he's the sloppiest part of them by a mile. Do what you can to darken (black) the house during the night and bring in blue light and sunlight during the day.
posted by michaelh at 4:32 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by michaelh at 4:32 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think it would be useful to conceptually separate out the two odd parts of his sleeping: how many hours he's sleeping, and when he's doing it. Which part is the one bothering you? If he slept 10 pm to 10 am, would that feel OK to you? How about if he slept 5 am-2 pm?
Also, if this is the new normal, what was the old normal?
posted by feets at 5:05 PM on December 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also, if this is the new normal, what was the old normal?
posted by feets at 5:05 PM on December 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
FWIW, I naturally (as in, whenever in my life I've had the luxury of choosing when and how long I sleep - College, prolonged periods of unemployment, hell even when I have more than a week's vacation I'll drift this way) stay up all night and sleep until early afternoon, and prefer around 10 hours of sleep. Not depressed, not sick, just a "night" person who likes more sleep than average.
That said, 12+ hours seems kind of excessive, and since you mention depression specifically, he really should mention it to his doctor.
posted by pla at 5:17 PM on December 2, 2012 [5 favorites]
That said, 12+ hours seems kind of excessive, and since you mention depression specifically, he really should mention it to his doctor.
posted by pla at 5:17 PM on December 2, 2012 [5 favorites]
The 12+ hours of sleep are a concern, definitely.
Just wanted to add a little about the nocturnal behavior. I'm a pretty strict down at 10pm up at 6am kind of person. I have married and had kids with a nocturnal guy. His typical schedule is down between 4 and 8am, up for the "day" about 7 or 8 hours later. Despite his schedule, the hours of 6pm to 10pm are pretty sacrosanct around here--he almost always feeds the kids dinner, and then makes me dinner after they are in bed, and we hang out.
The weekends kind of suck b/c I'm basically a single parent until at least noon. However, if I ask in advance for him to be awake (say, he needs to take care of one of our kids), or if we plan something (say, apple picking), he is perfectly willing to just forgo sleep or try to adjust his sleep to make things happen. No attitude, no complaints. And when it comes to putting together the complicated toys on Xmas Eve--ha! that's your job, buddy!
I'm sharing all this to tell you that it's possible to live pleasantly and cooperatively with someone who is nocturnal, it just takes flexibility on both sides. I would go into this with concern about the duration, not the timing, of his sleep.
posted by tk at 5:38 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just wanted to add a little about the nocturnal behavior. I'm a pretty strict down at 10pm up at 6am kind of person. I have married and had kids with a nocturnal guy. His typical schedule is down between 4 and 8am, up for the "day" about 7 or 8 hours later. Despite his schedule, the hours of 6pm to 10pm are pretty sacrosanct around here--he almost always feeds the kids dinner, and then makes me dinner after they are in bed, and we hang out.
The weekends kind of suck b/c I'm basically a single parent until at least noon. However, if I ask in advance for him to be awake (say, he needs to take care of one of our kids), or if we plan something (say, apple picking), he is perfectly willing to just forgo sleep or try to adjust his sleep to make things happen. No attitude, no complaints. And when it comes to putting together the complicated toys on Xmas Eve--ha! that's your job, buddy!
I'm sharing all this to tell you that it's possible to live pleasantly and cooperatively with someone who is nocturnal, it just takes flexibility on both sides. I would go into this with concern about the duration, not the timing, of his sleep.
posted by tk at 5:38 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
michaelh: Cancel Netflix and Lexapro.
Good lord, don't just take away the Lexapro without consulting a doctor! This isn't a vitamin pill we're talking about. The Lexapro might be adding to his sleep issue, but it might also be the only thing allowing him get out of bed at all. It could, quite literally, be his lifeline.
That said, he can do a couple of things to be proactive about this. First, he needs to go to his doctor (whoever prescribed the Lexapro) and clearly outline his sleep schedule. The dosage could be off, and adjustments can be made, under a doctor's supervision. Normally, you should start on the lowest dosage that works for you, but you also want to make sure it is effective, and it's tough to get the balance just right.
Lexapro isn't the only medication available, either. Many docs feel staying too long on one medication can lessen its intended effects (even if it initially worked for the patient), so it may be that his doctor can transition him over to another medication. Again, it is really important that he not just stop taking the Lexapro, though! His doctor needs to be in the picture.
What time of day does he take the Lexapro? If he balks at changing any other part of his schedule, maybe he can start with moving the time he takes his pill an hour or two each day, to see if that affects his sleep cycle. Some people do better taking meds at night than in the morning. He should ask his doctor about that, too.
posted by misha at 5:58 PM on December 2, 2012 [10 favorites]
Good lord, don't just take away the Lexapro without consulting a doctor! This isn't a vitamin pill we're talking about. The Lexapro might be adding to his sleep issue, but it might also be the only thing allowing him get out of bed at all. It could, quite literally, be his lifeline.
That said, he can do a couple of things to be proactive about this. First, he needs to go to his doctor (whoever prescribed the Lexapro) and clearly outline his sleep schedule. The dosage could be off, and adjustments can be made, under a doctor's supervision. Normally, you should start on the lowest dosage that works for you, but you also want to make sure it is effective, and it's tough to get the balance just right.
Lexapro isn't the only medication available, either. Many docs feel staying too long on one medication can lessen its intended effects (even if it initially worked for the patient), so it may be that his doctor can transition him over to another medication. Again, it is really important that he not just stop taking the Lexapro, though! His doctor needs to be in the picture.
What time of day does he take the Lexapro? If he balks at changing any other part of his schedule, maybe he can start with moving the time he takes his pill an hour or two each day, to see if that affects his sleep cycle. Some people do better taking meds at night than in the morning. He should ask his doctor about that, too.
posted by misha at 5:58 PM on December 2, 2012 [10 favorites]
This may be the worst of devil's advocacy, and it may well not apply, however how was your relationship before? From the sounds of it, it could be metabolic or physiological (as has been mentioned), it could be psychological (as has been mentioned – and I agree with), or it could be avoidance.
Is there any possibility he could be avoiding your relationship? It could also be a mixture of all three. If he was depressed, and then you nag him and are after him about it, he may feel 1) out of control of his life from depression, and 2) seek to avoid dealing with it (as he feels out of control) by avoiding you all together.
Since you stated he had a history of depression, he must be aware of his tendencies. He takes his meds, therefore he is doing what he believes he needs to do. Thus, it may be worth looking at what are the external environmental factors?
Is he happy in his job? Many people who work at home make enough money to survive but there are second-order social effects. The isolation. The lack of external engagement/behavioural reinforcement.
Is he happy in your relationship? It's not uncommon for people who feel trapped in relationships to sort out ways of making them "functional" – as in the relationship is present – without engaging with the relationship in a beneficial way.
Was there a specific change when this behaviour started? Did someone pass away? Did his role at work change? Did he start or stop some other behaviour? (drinking/drugs?)
The Netflix 'addiction' is interesting because it certainly would fit with escapism. He sleeps all day – avoiding the world. Works at night – avoiding you. His solace is escaping into fiction and fantasy, sneaking off into sleep before the day arrives. Rinse, repeat.
Come to think of it, you badgering him may actually be a positive thing, for it's representative of some structure. Someone is after him to do something on a schedule that is not wholly his own.
As mentioned, this may not apply, but it's probably worth looking at when the behaviour started and what the genesis was to better understand what has happened, and where he – and you – have arrived.
If he refuses to take steps to sort out this behaviour himself, you must consider if you can live with "the new normal". Chances are you have also changed and adapted your life – it seems like it would be hard to have a normal 'couple' relationship – with the interpersonal and social functioning that often goes along with being a couple – given the current circumstances. Whilst his descent into this may have been gradual for him not to notice, perhaps the descent was also gradual enough for you not to notice the profoundness of the toll it is taking on you.
All best, good luck.
posted by nickrussell at 6:29 PM on December 2, 2012 [5 favorites]
Is there any possibility he could be avoiding your relationship? It could also be a mixture of all three. If he was depressed, and then you nag him and are after him about it, he may feel 1) out of control of his life from depression, and 2) seek to avoid dealing with it (as he feels out of control) by avoiding you all together.
Since you stated he had a history of depression, he must be aware of his tendencies. He takes his meds, therefore he is doing what he believes he needs to do. Thus, it may be worth looking at what are the external environmental factors?
Is he happy in his job? Many people who work at home make enough money to survive but there are second-order social effects. The isolation. The lack of external engagement/behavioural reinforcement.
Is he happy in your relationship? It's not uncommon for people who feel trapped in relationships to sort out ways of making them "functional" – as in the relationship is present – without engaging with the relationship in a beneficial way.
Was there a specific change when this behaviour started? Did someone pass away? Did his role at work change? Did he start or stop some other behaviour? (drinking/drugs?)
The Netflix 'addiction' is interesting because it certainly would fit with escapism. He sleeps all day – avoiding the world. Works at night – avoiding you. His solace is escaping into fiction and fantasy, sneaking off into sleep before the day arrives. Rinse, repeat.
Come to think of it, you badgering him may actually be a positive thing, for it's representative of some structure. Someone is after him to do something on a schedule that is not wholly his own.
As mentioned, this may not apply, but it's probably worth looking at when the behaviour started and what the genesis was to better understand what has happened, and where he – and you – have arrived.
If he refuses to take steps to sort out this behaviour himself, you must consider if you can live with "the new normal". Chances are you have also changed and adapted your life – it seems like it would be hard to have a normal 'couple' relationship – with the interpersonal and social functioning that often goes along with being a couple – given the current circumstances. Whilst his descent into this may have been gradual for him not to notice, perhaps the descent was also gradual enough for you not to notice the profoundness of the toll it is taking on you.
All best, good luck.
posted by nickrussell at 6:29 PM on December 2, 2012 [5 favorites]
I have depression, am currently unemployed, am on celexa, and since being unemployed have gradually shifted toward a nocturnal schedule similar to your boyfriend's. I have always been more of a night owl, but this is extreme even for me. I am trying to shift back toward a normal schedule and it's very difficult. At least for me, this is something that is going to take a lot of work and adjustments. For one thing, when I was initially prescribed celexa, both my doctor and pharmacist advised me to take it in the morning because otherwise it would keep me up, but if I am not able to fall asleep until 5 am or later, then I am generally going to sleep until early to late afternoon, which means I'm going to take my pill later and create problems for getting to bed at a decent time that evening (on top of the fact that I slept late so I'm generally not going to be tired at a "normal" bed time). It's a snowball effect. My doctor and I are trying to break the cycle. Thus far trazadone has not worked, although now we are trying a higher dosage. She's reluctant to let me try ambien (which has worked for me in the past) because apparently there is a newish study finding a higher mortality among those who take prescription sleep aids.
tl:dr, my personal experience has been that it is extremely difficult for me to break the kind of sleep/wake cycle like your boyfriend's and almost impossible without some sort of sleep aid to knock me out at a decent hour, at least for a week or so to get back on the right track. Even if your boyfriend wants to change, it's unlikely that it will happen overnight. He may also want to consult with his doctor or pharmacist to determine when he should be taking his lexapro, so as to facilitate or at least not interfere with a "normal" sleep time.
posted by kaybdc at 9:23 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
tl:dr, my personal experience has been that it is extremely difficult for me to break the kind of sleep/wake cycle like your boyfriend's and almost impossible without some sort of sleep aid to knock me out at a decent hour, at least for a week or so to get back on the right track. Even if your boyfriend wants to change, it's unlikely that it will happen overnight. He may also want to consult with his doctor or pharmacist to determine when he should be taking his lexapro, so as to facilitate or at least not interfere with a "normal" sleep time.
posted by kaybdc at 9:23 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm sharing all this to tell you that it's possible to live pleasantly and cooperatively with someone who is nocturnal, it just takes flexibility on both sides. I would go into this with concern about the duration, not the timing, of his sleep.
I date a guy who both sleeps more than I do and also later than I do and I have to concur with tk's sort of lifestyle, the sleep thing is definitely negotiable, just like many things in our relationship. If there's a super awesome thing happening early, he'll get up and maybe nap later. If there's a super awesome thing happening late, I'll try to stay up and then sleep later. So it seems like what you need to ascertain is
1. If it's possible for him to change, which is hand in hand with
2. If he wants to make this change if it's possible
For #1 a stop at the doctor just to make sure things are AOK would be a good start (I am also of the "10 hours seems possible normal 12+ seems like possibly not" frame of mind) and then after that you need to decide if it's in dealbreaker territory. It would be for me. Can't make time for sex or snuggling or mealtimes? Not really okay. So, yeah just another voice from the "I am in a similar situation and we manage to make a lot of compromises work so I don't feel that he cares more about sleep than me" side of things.
posted by jessamyn at 9:34 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I date a guy who both sleeps more than I do and also later than I do and I have to concur with tk's sort of lifestyle, the sleep thing is definitely negotiable, just like many things in our relationship. If there's a super awesome thing happening early, he'll get up and maybe nap later. If there's a super awesome thing happening late, I'll try to stay up and then sleep later. So it seems like what you need to ascertain is
1. If it's possible for him to change, which is hand in hand with
2. If he wants to make this change if it's possible
For #1 a stop at the doctor just to make sure things are AOK would be a good start (I am also of the "10 hours seems possible normal 12+ seems like possibly not" frame of mind) and then after that you need to decide if it's in dealbreaker territory. It would be for me. Can't make time for sex or snuggling or mealtimes? Not really okay. So, yeah just another voice from the "I am in a similar situation and we manage to make a lot of compromises work so I don't feel that he cares more about sleep than me" side of things.
posted by jessamyn at 9:34 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm like your boyfriend, and while living with my boyfriend (and not working, while he was in school) I was kind of a schlubby 10-12 sleep hours a day, nocturnal creature. I can't say it made me very happy, even though I was getting the kind of sleep I always seem to crave. It changed when I got a job and had to be awake early in the morning. In other words, if your boyfriend wants to change, I would highly suggest planning a recurrent morning activity that he must attend. By which I mean, he chooses the activity, but something to help him get out of bed regularly until his body adjusts. Some kind of class, a really really part-time job, appointments with family, &c.
I understand the props nocturnalism gets because I do a lot of good work at night and like the nightlife, &c., but I could never live with someone with a majorly mismatched schedule like this. Another way to get around it is naps and maybe even napping together, if you're both into that.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:40 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I understand the props nocturnalism gets because I do a lot of good work at night and like the nightlife, &c., but I could never live with someone with a majorly mismatched schedule like this. Another way to get around it is naps and maybe even napping together, if you're both into that.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:40 PM on December 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't understand the freaking out on this.
Were I able to work from home I would probably have exactly this schedule. If you're around during the day, and at home, the TV will come on at some point. Daytime TV is truly awful enough that I would change my schedule to avoid it. night hours are easier on the eyes (even if actually worse for them) when looking at computer screens. It is quieter and possibly more productive for him at later hours.
There are morning people, and night people. I'd say I meet 10-1 people that would rather not get up at 6am to get to work. Yes it is the norm, but if you don't have to, why would you possibly subject yourself to shrieking alarms every morning? I've managed to work positions that require setting alarms <2>
As an experiment, try getting a job requiring no normal hours for months on end. What time would you get up?
Anecdote - I've been 'clinically' depressed. My sleep schedule was the same as it is now. If I could get paid to sleep I'd be the richest man in the world and in general I'm a pretty happy guy these days.
posted by efalk at 12:23 AM on December 3, 2012
Were I able to work from home I would probably have exactly this schedule. If you're around during the day, and at home, the TV will come on at some point. Daytime TV is truly awful enough that I would change my schedule to avoid it. night hours are easier on the eyes (even if actually worse for them) when looking at computer screens. It is quieter and possibly more productive for him at later hours.
There are morning people, and night people. I'd say I meet 10-1 people that would rather not get up at 6am to get to work. Yes it is the norm, but if you don't have to, why would you possibly subject yourself to shrieking alarms every morning? I've managed to work positions that require setting alarms <2>
As an experiment, try getting a job requiring no normal hours for months on end. What time would you get up?
Anecdote - I've been 'clinically' depressed. My sleep schedule was the same as it is now. If I could get paid to sleep I'd be the richest man in the world and in general I'm a pretty happy guy these days.
posted by efalk at 12:23 AM on December 3, 2012
Doctor re: right meds
i took some great meds when i was depressed but after a while i found that my bedtime was getting later and later (and i dont think that helps with feeling less depressed actually if the majority of time you are awake you're on your own and you arent massively interacting with your SO) so the meds were changed and specifically i was prescribed some that were a take in the evening/they make you drowsy style.
Everyone needs sleep and sometimes you need more and sometimes health issues play into that. But when the person is choosing to operate on a different schedule to you and you've explained your concerns and tried little things to change/encourage a more syncronised day thats not great. He doesnt 'work nights' (in the sense a security guard does or whatever) so he can change his work patterns. He doesnt have to be up at a shrieking alarm at 6 or 7 everyday but right now he is choosing to get up when you're just about to get home, see you for a bit then sleep again, then into work, then falling asleep in front of movies. You guys see each other for how much time? How much of that is 'quality' time?
I've tried coaxing him awake with sexytimes, suggesting breakfast or a low-key activity we can do together in the morning, nudging him repeatedly, point blank telling him that it bothers me and asking him to try to wake up earlier (he agrees to try and then just doesn't), all sorts of stuff. None of it has worked
He complains sometimes about not having enough time in the day. When I point out that this is most likely because he sleeps for 12 hours a day he agrees and changes the subject.
Is he changing the subject generally whenever this gets brought up?
I think it might be hard if he's not willing to talk about it at all, and if he's not taking up any of your coaxing activities so you might have to really go for it: "Im worried about your health, i'm worried about our relationship and i'm worried that i've talked to you about this already and tried to make/suggest some changes but you dont seem to be taking that on board. Im not that happy about this and i dont see that me just getting used to this is going to make me feel better over time. Are you happy? Do you have any thoughts on this as a long term thing?"
Were i able i would get up later and go to bed later, i would be super happy. I hate 7am. But my schedule of choice would probably still only be 8 hours of sleep (more hours only on occasions i was ill, hungover, coming off the back of a big stress project i.e. not daily or weekly) and would run maybe 10am to 1 or 2am. Being totally nocturnal pretty much means not seeing anyone That might be ok for a hermit but given he's in a LTR and lives with you then he's not a hermit. If you dont want to be nagging or making this about your relationship then maybe thats an 'in'. Him adopting another time pattern means he misses out on other peoples lives too and being so isolated doesnt help with depression. "Say, bf, take me out the equation cos we've talked about that already, lets talk about other people in your life - When did you last go out with the guys? Visit family? Hang out with anyone outside the house on hours that are 'regular'?"
tldr - revisit the docs talking specifcally about whether the drugs are related to the nocturnal patterns and a serious conversation where you flat out ask whether he's happy (because you're not) and talking specifically about the amount of time he's choosing to spend alone versus time he's choosing to spend with people who he loves and who love him.
good luck
posted by moreteaplease at 5:38 AM on December 3, 2012
i took some great meds when i was depressed but after a while i found that my bedtime was getting later and later (and i dont think that helps with feeling less depressed actually if the majority of time you are awake you're on your own and you arent massively interacting with your SO) so the meds were changed and specifically i was prescribed some that were a take in the evening/they make you drowsy style.
Everyone needs sleep and sometimes you need more and sometimes health issues play into that. But when the person is choosing to operate on a different schedule to you and you've explained your concerns and tried little things to change/encourage a more syncronised day thats not great. He doesnt 'work nights' (in the sense a security guard does or whatever) so he can change his work patterns. He doesnt have to be up at a shrieking alarm at 6 or 7 everyday but right now he is choosing to get up when you're just about to get home, see you for a bit then sleep again, then into work, then falling asleep in front of movies. You guys see each other for how much time? How much of that is 'quality' time?
I've tried coaxing him awake with sexytimes, suggesting breakfast or a low-key activity we can do together in the morning, nudging him repeatedly, point blank telling him that it bothers me and asking him to try to wake up earlier (he agrees to try and then just doesn't), all sorts of stuff. None of it has worked
He complains sometimes about not having enough time in the day. When I point out that this is most likely because he sleeps for 12 hours a day he agrees and changes the subject.
Is he changing the subject generally whenever this gets brought up?
I think it might be hard if he's not willing to talk about it at all, and if he's not taking up any of your coaxing activities so you might have to really go for it: "Im worried about your health, i'm worried about our relationship and i'm worried that i've talked to you about this already and tried to make/suggest some changes but you dont seem to be taking that on board. Im not that happy about this and i dont see that me just getting used to this is going to make me feel better over time. Are you happy? Do you have any thoughts on this as a long term thing?"
Were i able i would get up later and go to bed later, i would be super happy. I hate 7am. But my schedule of choice would probably still only be 8 hours of sleep (more hours only on occasions i was ill, hungover, coming off the back of a big stress project i.e. not daily or weekly) and would run maybe 10am to 1 or 2am. Being totally nocturnal pretty much means not seeing anyone That might be ok for a hermit but given he's in a LTR and lives with you then he's not a hermit. If you dont want to be nagging or making this about your relationship then maybe thats an 'in'. Him adopting another time pattern means he misses out on other peoples lives too and being so isolated doesnt help with depression. "Say, bf, take me out the equation cos we've talked about that already, lets talk about other people in your life - When did you last go out with the guys? Visit family? Hang out with anyone outside the house on hours that are 'regular'?"
tldr - revisit the docs talking specifcally about whether the drugs are related to the nocturnal patterns and a serious conversation where you flat out ask whether he's happy (because you're not) and talking specifically about the amount of time he's choosing to spend alone versus time he's choosing to spend with people who he loves and who love him.
good luck
posted by moreteaplease at 5:38 AM on December 3, 2012
I don't really agree with everyone that he is depressed. I know that when I don't have a job or something requiring that I wake up in the morning, my sleep pattern always adjusts itself so I am going to bed between 5 and 7 am and I wake up in the afternoon. That just always happens, it happened when I was actually clinically depressed and happened when I wasn't. It's either how my internal clock works, or how my bad habits push my sleeping pattern. That said, if he isn't depressed now, waking up after 4pm in December means he is living in darkness and that can't be good for his outlook. And as for the amount he sleeps, it could definitely be depression, but sounds like bad habits and pure laziness to me. The lazier you get, the lazier you become. When I oversleep or sleep too late in the day, I will want to go back to bed within a couple hours, but of course don't let myself. Sounds like he doesn't care and he is in a rut. I assume he does not exercise or get any kind of physical activity? That would really help him be less lazy and sleep better.
I think you need to decide if his behavior is a dealbreaker or not. Since you don't do anything together and you have a roommate and not a life partner in him, it sounds like it should be. If it is, you should give him an ultimatum. You shouldn't give him an ultimatum unless you intend on following through on the consequence, which in this situation would probably mean breaking up. Casually bringing it up hasn't worked, so maybe you need to schedule a serious sit down to signal that this is something he really needs to address with you. Tell him what you tell us - be honest about how his behavior is affecting you and how it makes you concerned for his well-being. If setting up a discussion with him doesn't work, then I would issue the ultimatum because he won't change without one. And maybe he won't change at all. You need to decide if you can live like this for the rest of your life, or you want something else out of your relationship. I think whether he is depressed or not, therapy may be something that's good for him anyway - if he is not clinically depressed, he sure is unmotivated and apathetic - and it may be a good requirement of the ultimatum, along with him needing to shift his schedule to be awake during the day. If you do an ultimatum, I also think you should clearly define your expectations for change.
Good luck!
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:42 AM on December 3, 2012
I think you need to decide if his behavior is a dealbreaker or not. Since you don't do anything together and you have a roommate and not a life partner in him, it sounds like it should be. If it is, you should give him an ultimatum. You shouldn't give him an ultimatum unless you intend on following through on the consequence, which in this situation would probably mean breaking up. Casually bringing it up hasn't worked, so maybe you need to schedule a serious sit down to signal that this is something he really needs to address with you. Tell him what you tell us - be honest about how his behavior is affecting you and how it makes you concerned for his well-being. If setting up a discussion with him doesn't work, then I would issue the ultimatum because he won't change without one. And maybe he won't change at all. You need to decide if you can live like this for the rest of your life, or you want something else out of your relationship. I think whether he is depressed or not, therapy may be something that's good for him anyway - if he is not clinically depressed, he sure is unmotivated and apathetic - and it may be a good requirement of the ultimatum, along with him needing to shift his schedule to be awake during the day. If you do an ultimatum, I also think you should clearly define your expectations for change.
Good luck!
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:42 AM on December 3, 2012
He may be nocturnal. He may have an illness (depression or a metabolic issue or chronic Epstein-Barr or who knows? I have to sleep 11-ish hours, which fucking sucks, let me tell you, Internets).
But what would concern me is his prioritizing his preferred sleep cycle over ever seeing you, and his refusal to discuss it.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:55 PM on December 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
But what would concern me is his prioritizing his preferred sleep cycle over ever seeing you, and his refusal to discuss it.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:55 PM on December 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hey. He has an existing clinical diagnosis of depression and is getting medical treatment, presumably from a licensed physician.
Anon? Please do not tell your boyfriend to stop taking his prescribed medication. That kind of advice should come from a licensed physician.
My gosh, people.
Oh, and... I've recently been "told" by a family member, quite rightly, that I am not qualified to be a therapist for my own family member or friend. Any advice that sounds like holding an intervention, and doesn't consist just about entirely of "take this to your doctor or therapist," should probably be heavily discounted.
You can, by the way, feel totally morally and ethically justified in making "get treatment for this" a non-negotiable thing (in these sense of "I'm out of here unless you start working on this.") You can even tell him more generally that the situation as it stands is intolerable and must change.
But, I wouldn't be shocked if ultimatums don't really work, and ultimatums other than "go get professional help now" really don't work.
posted by Fee Phi Faux Phumb I Smell t'Socks o' a Puppetman! at 5:58 PM on December 3, 2012
Anon? Please do not tell your boyfriend to stop taking his prescribed medication. That kind of advice should come from a licensed physician.
My gosh, people.
Oh, and... I've recently been "told" by a family member, quite rightly, that I am not qualified to be a therapist for my own family member or friend. Any advice that sounds like holding an intervention, and doesn't consist just about entirely of "take this to your doctor or therapist," should probably be heavily discounted.
You can, by the way, feel totally morally and ethically justified in making "get treatment for this" a non-negotiable thing (in these sense of "I'm out of here unless you start working on this.") You can even tell him more generally that the situation as it stands is intolerable and must change.
But, I wouldn't be shocked if ultimatums don't really work, and ultimatums other than "go get professional help now" really don't work.
posted by Fee Phi Faux Phumb I Smell t'Socks o' a Puppetman! at 5:58 PM on December 3, 2012
my ex boyfriend was like this and he was neither depressed nor anything else. he was lazy and coddled (by me) and he got used to being able to sleep as much as he wanted, whenever he wanted, and yeah, I think he was partially avoiding our relationship.
I worked like you, and it was pretty much the same, and the result was that everything that was a responsibility just ended up on me. I had to cook, I had to clean, I had to run any errands, because he was always sleeping and impossible to get a hold of. also, if he was mostly up when I was asleep, he had full control of computer things to do, tv to watch, games to play, etc etc. it's a pretty easy life.
I think your boyfriend sounds spoiled. if you've told someone something they're doing that is totally just something optional for them (he can work whenever he wants) is hurting your relationship and they do nothing to change it, then it's because they don't care to.
I mean, YMMV, by all means send him to a therapist or something, but he just sounds lazy to me. that's not a grown up life or relationship, and he doesn't seem to want one. not sleeping together, not having sex, not eating together, not doing chores, not going out for activities and errands and spending a life together just degrades your relationship. it's pretty much impossible (at least it was for me) to not care. it just got harder and harder until it felt like I had some kind of weird nocturnal roommate who despite several "serious discussions" never tried to change.
I hope yours works out better.
posted by euphoria066 at 8:07 PM on December 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
I worked like you, and it was pretty much the same, and the result was that everything that was a responsibility just ended up on me. I had to cook, I had to clean, I had to run any errands, because he was always sleeping and impossible to get a hold of. also, if he was mostly up when I was asleep, he had full control of computer things to do, tv to watch, games to play, etc etc. it's a pretty easy life.
I think your boyfriend sounds spoiled. if you've told someone something they're doing that is totally just something optional for them (he can work whenever he wants) is hurting your relationship and they do nothing to change it, then it's because they don't care to.
I mean, YMMV, by all means send him to a therapist or something, but he just sounds lazy to me. that's not a grown up life or relationship, and he doesn't seem to want one. not sleeping together, not having sex, not eating together, not doing chores, not going out for activities and errands and spending a life together just degrades your relationship. it's pretty much impossible (at least it was for me) to not care. it just got harder and harder until it felt like I had some kind of weird nocturnal roommate who despite several "serious discussions" never tried to change.
I hope yours works out better.
posted by euphoria066 at 8:07 PM on December 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you're still reading this, it occurred to me that if you're boyfriend is sleeping all day and it seems like he doesn't get out much anyway, he might very well have a vitamin D deficiency. I believe that this would contribute to both his depression and general feeling of lethargy. If you can get him to go to a doctor, he should get that checked out.
posted by kaybdc at 8:45 PM on December 6, 2012
posted by kaybdc at 8:45 PM on December 6, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
He should also have a sleep study. If he has something like sleep apnea or narcolepsy that will also cause disturbed sleep (and often secondary depression) - but both are very treatable.
tl;dr: Doctor, stat.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:42 PM on December 2, 2012 [7 favorites]