Chew the rows.

November 3, 2012 12:44 PM

What is the knowledge and perception of the Tudor Rose symbol outside of England?

The Tudor Rose—two roses, one inside the other, usually white inside red (images here)—is a well–known symbol within England, often associated with the Tudor dynasty or with England itself.

My question is whether this symbol is known outside of England, either as the Tudor Rose or under another name, what it is used for, and what perception of knowledge there is connected to it.

I'm interested whether this symbol is at all "meaningful" to others. Personal knowledge or opinion is welcome, but please specify place and context. More solid information especially welcome. Thank you.

posted by Jehan to Grab Bag (34 answers total)

No meaning whatsoever to me. Had I seen that symbol without any prompting, I might have thought it was a remembrance poppy or something along those lines.
posted by jquinby at 12:54 PM on November 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

US here. I vaguely know about it but had an exceptionally good history teacher. "Yep, that's the Tudor rose" is pretty much the extent of what I think and feel about it.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 12:55 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

I'd have no knowledge of the symbol (US), but it looks Spanish to me.
posted by katypickle at 12:59 PM on November 3, 2012

American with English mother here. I don't know that symbol though I do have a vague awareness of roses symbolizing royal houses through knowledge of the war of the roses.
posted by Nickel at 1:01 PM on November 3, 2012

I'm a Canadian in my thirties, I grew up with an English dad, uncles, etc. I lived near Manchester for about a year in 2005. I'm no great history buff but I generally feel (perhaps erroneously) like I know the highlights, and the Tudor rose exists only at the edge of my awareness. I wouldn't have recognized the images in that google search and I don't think I knew that the symbol carried the weight you describe.
posted by chudmonkey at 1:02 PM on November 3, 2012

This mid-30s American recognizes it as associated with England, but probably wouldn't be able to name it. The phrase "Tudor rose" is familiar to me from books, but it doesn't instantly bring the image to mind, at least without some prompting.
posted by hattifattener at 1:03 PM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

It's familiar to me as an image, and I'm aware of the symbolism, but when I see the image the symbolism doesn't immediately pop into my mind - does that make sense? And when I read "Tudor Rose" in your post I knew it had something to do with red and white petals, but I didn't have the exact image in my mind. I think I need a lot of context for me to recognize it as something more than a pretty stylized flower.

I am from/reside in the US, I am currently reading Bring Up the Bodies and I visited Hampton Court Palace a few months ago.
posted by mskyle at 1:04 PM on November 3, 2012

American here. I can't recall ever seeing that symbol before. I know I've either read or heard the phrase "Tudor Rose" before today, but I don't know what it means. No knowledge, no automatic connotations, nothing. Like, if you said "Tudor Rose" to me, I might assume you were talking about a paint color or a kind of flower.
posted by erst at 1:04 PM on November 3, 2012

I'm an American who is a big fan of Tudor history but I don't think I saw that symbol used really until I moved here to the UK and saw it on the signs for historical sites. I get the meaning of the colors, I understand what it comes from, but yeah, all I really associate it with now is tourist sites.
posted by olinerd at 1:05 PM on November 3, 2012

I would have guessed some association with England, but not anything specifically Tudor. I'm Canadian and I'd be surprised if there was anything Tudor whatsoever in our education curriculum.

I think it would be somewhat common in Canada to associate roses with England in general, but I think only a very few would know the Tudor Rose.
posted by ssg at 1:05 PM on November 3, 2012

American who lived in London a bit as a child, and with family in the UK--never seen it before in my life.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 1:09 PM on November 3, 2012

American here. I am familiar with the "red rose and the white" and their representation of Lancaster and York and that those houses sort of united into the Tudor dynasty--I read Shakespeare's histories a million times in high school--but that image means nothing to me. It doesn't even look like roses.
posted by phoenixy at 1:19 PM on November 3, 2012

American, quite familiar with it, surprised others aren't. It was in The Tudors, yes, and also discussed in a lot of the commentary on Kate Middleton's wedding dress and the symbolism of the floral lace. It also appears in a lot of high school editions of Shakespeare.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:57 PM on November 3, 2012

American, history buff, literature buff. This symbolizes to me the end of the Wars of the Roses and Henry VII's attempt to turn his military victory into a political settlement. IIRC his son Hank VIII tried to have his florists grow tudor roses, not very successfully.
posted by Mad_Carew at 2:06 PM on November 3, 2012

American, a bit of an Anglophile but not a rabid one, and someone who has never been to the UK. I know the symbol and the name "tudor rose" as well as the basics of the history associated with it. I have a vague notion that I've also seen it used as a quilting motif in antique quilts, but I'm less certain about that.
posted by PussKillian at 2:07 PM on November 3, 2012

US here. Texas. I would have interpreted it as some Golden Dawn thing. I've heard the term, "Tudor Rose."
posted by cmoj at 2:08 PM on November 3, 2012

American, familiar with it- I associate it with the Tudors (particularly the various Henries) and England. I have studied art history, though. I also associate it with the tudor arch and strapwork as an ornamental architectural feature.
posted by Adridne at 2:10 PM on November 3, 2012

American, Anglophile, MA History with a thesis period that ended at the Black Death. Lived in Yorkshire as a teenager. No trouble identifying it or visualizing it from the name. (Also surprised that so few Americans are acquainted with it after Sexy Tudors.)
posted by immlass at 2:11 PM on November 3, 2012

American with an interest in English/Scottish history.

Between Alison Weir, Shakespeare and Josephine Tey (plus assorted mentions in history survey classes and history documentaries) I've absorbed enough that time period to be familiar with the Wars of the Roses, York/Lancastrian struggle, and the rose symbology. I knew what I would be looking at when I clicked the link and have identified/noticed it on buildings/in logos/etc. I still need to read a proper history of the Wars themselves, however - I feel like I've read all around that time period but never actually hit it straight on.
posted by clerestory at 2:35 PM on November 3, 2012

Chinese, born and raised in New York, took almost no history in school. I made the association to the War of the Roses and the house of Plantagenet, but I couldn't figure out whether it was the York symbol or the Lancaster symbol or the unified one adopted afterward. (I've never seen any of them in color before, only carved/cast/stamped/whatever into buildings and cannon and so on.) This is the first time I've seen the term "Tudor Rose."
posted by d. z. wang at 3:02 PM on November 3, 2012

US, Washington State. I'd recognize it from history and art history class--and also from reading Sharon Kay Penman's Richard III-sympathetic novel The Sunne in Splendour at a very impressionable age.
posted by lovecrafty at 3:05 PM on November 3, 2012

Californian. I know the name and recognize the symbol, and have only the most vague ideas about the Wars of the Roses. I know that the Lancaster Rose is the red one, for some reason, possibly because some gardeners call the red Rosa gallica the Lancaster rose.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:45 PM on November 3, 2012

My American husband had no idea what I was talking when it was the first time it came up in conversation. I'm an Aussie bought up by a died in the wool history obsessed Yorkshire lass so know probably more about it that most outside of the UK.
posted by wwax at 3:48 PM on November 3, 2012

American, Texan, remember my history lessons about the Wars of the Roses, and that symbol means nothing to me but "Ooh, pretty!"
posted by fiercecupcake at 4:50 PM on November 3, 2012

I know the symbol; grew up in the US, but I'm a big fan of the Tudor historical period (since my teens). I know the symbol came of the War of the Roses (York and Lancaster).
posted by deborah at 5:02 PM on November 3, 2012

Cosmopolitan Californian; been to England (but it's been a long time); history buff (but just 20th c, and Britain in the 20 century, very interested); fascinated with symbols, logos, and flags; must say your rose doesn't ring a bell.
posted by Rash at 5:23 PM on November 3, 2012

US. Texas. This thread introduced me to the Tudor Rose.
posted by Brody's chum at 5:52 PM on November 3, 2012

US, nearly 30 years old, born in NYC, I could picture the Tudor Rose when you mentioned it, and I knew its connection to Henry VII and VIII.
posted by Lycaste at 6:20 PM on November 3, 2012

Montrealer, bit of a history buff. I definitely recognize it, and associate it with the War of the Roses specifically, and the monarchy more generally. Not sure I'd have immediately been able to name it as the "Tudor Rose" though. (We actually have the red rose of Lancaster on the flag of Montreal, so maybe that makes it easier to recognize than for folks from other places.)
posted by vasi at 6:52 PM on November 3, 2012

New Zealander here, living in Australia. No formal history background beyond fifth form social studies. I know of the Tudor Rose symbol by name, but I'm not sure I would have recognised it without context. I kind of vaguely knew it looked like that and I know a little bit about the War of the Roses. If someone showed me the symbol and told me it represented something historical, I probably would have said it had to do with the War of the Roses.
posted by lollusc at 7:16 PM on November 3, 2012

American here, studied history in college, definitely knew what I was going to be looking at, and when I did see it, it certainly resonated. I was surprised at the question, but when I asked my girlfriend she thought it might be an ornate pattern and even when I told her what it was, it didn't resonate at all.

So apparently not as common as I thought actually.
posted by Carillon at 9:36 PM on November 3, 2012

Another Texan, fan of The Tudors and all things of that period. Yes, I would have recognized both the term and the symbol.
posted by tamitang at 10:01 PM on November 3, 2012

US, Ga. Know the symbol and meaning well. Also surprised that it's so unfamiliar.
posted by pearlybob at 12:45 AM on November 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

I'm in the southeastern US and know about the Tudor rose & meaning etc. but I'm an Anglophile with a BA in History and took about 20 semester hours in 15th & 16th century England.
posted by pointystick at 6:58 AM on November 5, 2012