Is it unreasonable to want to know the duration of your house guest’s visit?

November 1, 2012 3:55 AM

Is it unreasonable to want to know the duration of your house guest’s visit?

To place things in the right cultural context, my husband and I are both Indians. Our families are different from each other’s, in that, my family is liberal while at the same time, a little more “formal”, especially with respect to time. For instance, my father’s schedule is often minute-by-minute, both my parents are very particular about being on time, they both like to plan ahead, and stay on schedule. Never in a million years can I imagine either of my parents visiting someone for an “indefinite” period of time, (in terms of days) without them letting the host know their exact time of arrival and departure. This was the kind of environment I grew up in, and some of the habits that I picked up from them. For instance, with regard to visitors I like to know their exact time of arrival, so that I can plan ahead.(for example, cleaning, preparation for meals if any, taking them out for a meal, or sighseeing etc)

My husband’s family, on the other hand, is more conventional Indian, more traditional, and they are more “go with the flow” kind of people. In his family, it is perfectly normal to visit a relative or a friend for days and only decide on the spur of the moment what their plans for the day are. For instance, its perfectly acceptable that you plan your visit for a week, and end up staying for a couple of weeks more . Also, it would be considered rude to ask the guest how long their visit is for.

This attitude drives me crazy. I really REALLY would like to know, for chrissake, how long the guest will visit? By and large, I don’t mind having people over, and try to be a good hostess, but have to admit, that I get a bit thrown by the “I’m here till Monday” and then on Monday “a few more days” and so on. For me, its not so much as much actual work, I don’t mind some extra work, and anyway, the guest themselves are not very demanding. In fact, they do help out a lot in the household work, and volunteer to cook….for me, it’s more of a matter of being mentally prepared. I have to point out here that I am an introvert, and though I can be friendly and chatty and socialise with people, I still have the desperate need to have my own “quiet” time, where there is no one else in the house, when I don’t have to socialise, I can do my own thing, if its only sitting quietly in a corner and enjoying the view from my balcony. Which is why I’d like to know how long someone will visit, so that I can be both physically and mentally prepared.(Is the house clean? is there extra linen? Are there extra groceries to be done?….to….I can’t bum around the house this Sunday in my underwear, maybe next weekend)

I’ve tried talking to my husband about it, but he says that 1) My family is different and that this is perfectly normal in India.2) In reality, I don’t want to have any guests over and that I should tell everyone not to visit (This makes me very sad because, I do genuinely don’t mind having people over, and I do put in quite an effort to make my home comfortable for everyone, so I feel that’s not appreciated. He also extrapolates it to make me sound like some sort of b^^&$( for not enjoying having people around. His POV is that if he was to visit them, they wouldn’t mind his indefinite stay…and also, that since I am at work anyways, I don’t interact with them all that much. Plus since they do most of their work, I shouldn’t really have any issues.

So, please resolve this argument for us, Mefites.Is it unreasonable to want to know how long your visitor will visit???Is it unreasonable to want to know?

Also, is there actually any way to ask a guest, how long their visit is for, WITHOUT sounding rude?

Last but not the least, we stay in a 2 bedroom apartment, and we’re having 4 garrulous aunts visiting this week(and maybe the next?)


Thanks a lot!

posted by synapse2512 to human relations (24 answers total)

It's not unreasonable at all, but this sounds like two things:
First, your husband doesn't seem to be making an effort to understand the root of your objections, and second, a bit of a intra-culture clash around time that's pretty universal. The first is actually the most serious, since this is his family. Are there any sympathetic family members who might help you make your case?

Is there anyone in your own family that has to deal with attitudes like your husband's family? What do they do? I'm assuming your family somehow thrives, and might have tips for asking or setting limits while being polite within the context you've described.

It sounds like more conversations with your husband about how to ensure you get your alone time are in order.
posted by canine epigram at 4:10 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]

I think one problem you will face is that even if there is a polite way to ask them how long they are staying, they themselves might not know how long they will actually be there.

I am not knowledgeable enough to help with any of the cultural issues in the question though.

Good luck.
posted by raccoon409 at 4:11 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]

Oh, my, gosh, it is TOTALLY unreasonable not to give your host your departure day in advance. I think the best way to resolve this is to have a conflict that means they cannot stay longer. So when your aunts on Monday say, "Oh, Synapse2512, we're going to be here for a few more days," you can respond, "That sounds wonderful! Unfortunately, we have other guests arriving tomorrow/we're leaving ourselves for a trip tomorrow/I've got something big at work to prepare for at work. We really look forward to seeing you next time you come visit! Can I help you with your bags?"

But to me, the much, much, much bigger issue is between you and your husband. You have to have each other's back and right now, your husband doesn't have your back in a really important way. I'm not sure how to resolve this - but I don't like how he is translating "I need boundaries about guests" into "synapse2512 is being a ***** and doesn't want anyone to visit, ever".

Is there a way the two of you can talk about this once the current guests are gone (e.g., not in the heat of this event?)
posted by arnicae at 4:13 AM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]

I think the fact that you folks are Indian is irrelevant. You're not being unreasonable. It's your home - you are more than within your rights to want to know when people are coming or going. Your husband should respect your wishes in this regard and either help to reach a compromise with you, or tell his family to sod off when they said they would, if that's what you want.
posted by Diag at 4:15 AM on November 1, 2012

It's not at all unreasonable to ask how long someone plans to stay. But as you say, there is a strong cultural element around hosting and expectations towards families that makes the point a bit moot.

I don't think there is a polite way to get what you want. You can ask as elliptically or politely as you like and even if the aunties tell you they're off in two days, there is no guarantee that they will stick to those dates.

What you're really asking is not how to assess duration, but how to communicate to family what is acceptable in terms of establishing when and for how long people will stay.

The crucial thing here is your husband, and how strongly you wish to make your feelings known to him, or how much it matters to him if you lay down some ground rules independently of him.

At the very, very least, I'd make it clear to him that if he wants people to stay for extended, he does more than his fair share of heavy lifting on the hosting front. I'd also make this point to him: culture cuts both ways. When in Rome..; when in your house it's your house rules. That might be a bit alien in traditional Indian culture, but you can also guarantee that in modern, dual income, independent middle class India, the ground rules on hosting will be changing. The relatives aren't dumb. They know your set up is not the same as a traditional Indian set up. They were also young once and know that having family for extended periods might be a duty but it is a colossal chore.

In short: talk to hubby; the family entitlement is less of a sacred cow than you might think.
posted by MuffinMan at 4:19 AM on November 1, 2012 [11 favorites]

I'm also from the subcontinent. I do agree that this is partly but not entirely a cultural thing. In my country we have the same issues with guests sort of showing up and you not having any real idea of how long they will be there for.

And of COURSE it's not unreasonable to ask how long a guest will be staying. How else are you meant to get anything planned in your own life?

Also, is there actually any way to ask a guest, how long their visit is for, WITHOUT sounding rude?

Well, I have been known to make up fictitious obligations, usually centred around work, which I can't wriggle out of, and so I will not be home to host them if they stay beyond a particular date. I'm not saying it's morally unimpeachable but at least no one gets offended.
posted by Ziggy500 at 4:21 AM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]

I'm not Indian so I'm very probably missing out on a lot of the cultural aspects of this, but: I would totally want to know how long someone was planning on being in my house for. I don't think that that's at all unreasonable. The argument of "well, the rest of India does it like this, you should do it like this as well" is something of a nonsense - this is your own house, not the house of every other Indian person out there. He's married to you, not someone else, so it's kind of silly to use the argument that someone else would do it differently.

Also, #2 made me raise my eyebrows a little - it reads like your husband is extrapolating from "I want to know how long people are here for" to "I don't want anyone here ever", which is bullshit and painting you in a bad light. I think he needs to realise that he married you, not someone else, so he gets to deal with you and your attitudes.

I can't think of a polite way to ask how long they'll be staying, especially given the cultural aspect to this. Even Miss Manners suggests making definite plans as to the length of visit before the stay. If you need alone time, could you maybe get it at a local park or something, or a library? It's not ideal, but maybe it will give your guests a subtle hint.

I'm introverted too, and the thought of having 6 people in a 2 bedroom apartment is making me twitch a little. Good luck.
posted by Solomon at 4:22 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]

"You're coming to Boston? Great, we're so thrilled to see you and Mitzi. This is going to be great. How long are you going to stay for? I want to plan some fun things for us to enjoy."
posted by feets at 4:30 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]

P.s. Oh, you're not sure how long you're staying? I don't mean to be a pest, but we were planning a weekend trip to Maine to do some field research for Bob's new job, and I don't want to schedule that trip on top of your stay...you think you'll be here until the 28th?"
posted by feets at 4:34 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]

You are asking a forum of people predominately populated by westerners to resolve an issue you and your husband both know is at least culturally based. You know what answer you're going to get here and you know exactly how useful that is going to be.

My suggestion is that you take whatever amount of time they say they are coming and DOUBLE IT. Then put an event at the end of the double. So like:

"We'd love to have you stay the first two weeks in April! Just so you know, if you extend your visit, we'll be leaving town and closing up the house on May 1 for a while."

Adjust your mindset and your strategy to reality. All marriages have these kinds of compromises with each other's families.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:39 AM on November 1, 2012 [22 favorites]

It's your home - you are more than within your rights to want to know when people are coming or going.

Except that maybe you aren't. "Rights" are culturally mediated, and as the OP well knows, there are cultures where these sorts of individualistic household boundaries don't really exist. Kids are traded around like bad pennies, people sleep wherever they happen to be when it gets dark, meals are communal, etc.

There is nothing wrong with this. Modern, Victorian-bourgeois sensibilities about how long people stay and not bumming around the house in one's underwear when guests are over are not inherently more right or reasonable than this more traditional way of life. So the immediate answer to the OP's question is "No, not necessarily. Not when you're dealing with people from traditional cultures."

it reads like your husband is extrapolating from "I want to know how long people are here for" to "I don't want anyone here ever", which is bullshit and painting you in a bad light.

It is and it isn't. One could reasonably parse his reaction along the lines of "Look, this is how my family is. Insisting that you know how long they're going to be here when you know quite well that they don't know themselves is basically saying you don't want to have them over."

The OP didn't just marry her husband, she married into his family. That means dealing with his family on their terms. Yes, there is some back and forth there, but the idea that his family must entirely comport with her idea of propriety is wrong.
posted by valkyryn at 4:41 AM on November 1, 2012 [6 favorites]

Solution 1) (somewhat evasive) Perhaps it would help you to make your personal checklist of purely practical issues that arise if you don't know how long they stay. Try to get the issue out of the "cultural differences" corner and make it one that has to do with your specific situation.

'Yes, great that you guys come visit, (add a paragraph about how fun it will be etc. etc.). Just as an afterthought: we have this that and the other going on here - I've never done this before, but I actually have to ask you how long your stay is going to be, so that I can plan ahead properly...'

Solution 2) Take the issue, again, out of the "cultural differences" corner, but discuss it in terms of your personal disposition. Your paragraph about "being an introvert" is important here. People cannot change their basic dispositions just like that, so don't try that too hard. You're not misunderstanding the "culture" of his family, it's rather that certain elements of that culture don't suit you personally, on a fundamental level. You need to explain this to your husband, it seems.
posted by Namlit at 4:47 AM on November 1, 2012

One way to indirectly determine the length of their stay would be to find some kind of public event happening a week or so after their arrival date.

A local festival / market / event , or some such thing that might be interesting for the whole lot of you to attend if they happen to still be there. Then you could suggest it at a potential activity for the group. But be sure to include the date of the event - this could elicit a response such as "oh, we probably won't be there that long".

Or secondly if its theatre or musical / an ongoing show that requires pre-purchase of tickets then you could ask "what dates would work for them" to go as the tickets might be limited.
posted by mary8nne at 4:50 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]

I'm Indian and grew up abroad, my dad sounds exactly like yours, we're always early :) and we follow schedules, formalize telephone calls before "dropping by" etc and this behaviour when we were all in New Delhi used to drive my mother crazy about the extended family.

What can you do? Can you put it in terms of planning and schedules and grocery shopping? Can you use your being a working person as an excuse for the need for better time management or rough idea estimates?

You'll definitely have to find a way to communicate this to your husband in a diplomatic way across the cultural divide since he's responding to it in a more "traditional way" of your bullet point #2, i.e. you don't want guests *rolls eyes* instead of seeing the nuance of your request. Dare I say that your needs, while perfectly valid and reasonable to the rest of us, may not even be under consideration for his side of the family since you're the bahu?
posted by infini at 5:03 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]

MetaFilter cannot answer this question for you, although you've done a good job of asking a group of people who are likely to offer their opinions anyway, and whose opinions will agree with yours. As you already know, this is in large part a cultural issue where different values of "unreasonable" may apply than are most prevalent on MetaFilter.

However, when I read this:

2) In reality, I don’t want to have any guests over and that I should tell everyone not to visit (This makes me very sad because, I do genuinely don’t mind having people over, and I do put in quite an effort to make my home comfortable for everyone, so I feel that’s not appreciated. He also extrapolates it to make me sound like some sort of b^^&$( for not enjoying having people around. His POV is that if he was to visit them, they wouldn’t mind his indefinite stay…and also, that since I am at work anyways, I don’t interact with them all that much. Plus since they do most of their work, I shouldn’t really have any issues.

I think your husband is being unreasonable. From your description he seems to be refusing to discuss this with you by painting your desire to even discuss it as something else entirely. The issue here is not just the cultural expectations but the way that you and your husband communicate about them and about your shared life. I would start with a conversation about having that conversation before moving on to negotiate the matter of guests.
posted by OmieWise at 5:13 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]

The OP didn't just marry her husband, she married into his family. That means dealing with his family on their terms. Yes, there is some back and forth there, but the idea that his family must entirely comport with her idea of propriety is wrong.

Yeah, but her husband married her and into her family, too. Indian culture isn't monolithic and unmovable here. For example, her family wouldn't ever think to not tell her how long they plan to stay.

No, the problem here is that her husband refuses to discuss this situation and is willfully misunderstanding her viewpoint on the matter. If they were both on the same page, this wouldn't even be a problem. As it stands, any possible solution to this won't work if he's not also on board.
posted by inturnaround at 5:24 AM on November 1, 2012 [11 favorites]

I am an American, and within my extended family there are people like your family (highly scheduled, only visit with arrivals and departures announced) and like your inlaws (no schedule, just show up and stay for a while). And yes, as you can imagine hilarity ensues when the two ideas of visiting meet.

It's been happening in my family for my entire life, and everyone has had to make their own accommodations with it -- and by that I mean that communication and adaptation has had to happen on both sides. Some of the spontaneous people have learned to give a bit more notice, especially about arrivals, and some of the highly scheduled people have learned to roll with the flow a bit more. But there's still friction and a lot of "WTF is that person doing?" on both sides.

In other words, I'm suggesting that versions of this are actually a fairly common issue in families, and that any solution is going to require flexibility and communication on both sides. That might mean lowering your standards for hosting -- if they don't give notice, they can't expect as much from the host -- while also negotiating with your husband for more advance warning of arrivals and departures, or whatever the key sticking points are for you.
posted by Forktine at 5:33 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]

While I totally get where you're coming from, I think this is just one of those things that you'll have to adjust to.

It would make me crazy too, to have perpetual houseguests and not know when they're leaving. But, that's the culture, and if, in that culture, trying to pin your family down on this is perceived as unwelcoming, you'll have to suck it up and deal.

That said, if it becomes too much for you, perhaps you can arrange a night away, just for yourself. A hotel room, or house sit for a friend. Even if you just take yourself off to a movie or for a spate of window shopping alone, getting away from the hoard will do you a world of good.

Also, if you can even just go and hang out in your bedroom, without the responsibility of having to entertain your company, that might relieve some of the pressure. "Gosh, work today took it all out of me. As much as I'd love to sit here with all of you, I'm desperate for some quiet time."

You should negotiate family visits with your husband. For example if the four garrulous aunts stay for a week, you'll need at least 3 months before you can entertain any more family.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:45 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]

I don't think I can answer if you're unreasonable because the cultural context is so different from what I'm used to, but I'm going to give you a suggestion for how you can deal with it better. When one of his family comes to visit, mentally prepare yourself for them to be there 2-3 times as long as they say. Then when you're thinking "I can't sit around in my undies this Sunday," you'll at least have a decent estimate of when you can do that.
posted by DoubleLune at 5:46 AM on November 1, 2012

Part of my family is Indian - I totally get where you're coming from. People would come and stay at our house all the time growing up, even family friends that we were not close to (friends of friends of such-and-such auntie and uncle) - there was an expectation that if people are coming all the way to see you (or see your area), then you give them a place to stay. I too hate this attitude - it's one thing to be hospitable and open your home - it's another to do so indefinitely.

Over time this wore on our family, and people would ask my aging dad (mom died when we were kids, so he was a single dad) to drive to the airport and pick them up, drive them to areas he didn't know well, often getting lost. The less you say "no," the more people will take advantage of you. Unfortunately, I think the only way to get around this, is to be firm. If it means being rude (not by your standards, but by the standards of others), then so be it. There isn't really a way around it. And it is an entirely fair request to know how long your guests will occupy your home. Ultimately I think you have to find a way to get your husband on board - if that means that he does all the "guest-work" (driving them around, picking stuff up for them, cooking for them, cleaning up after them), then there's that. It if means agreeing that you guys would never do the same (stay in someone else's home indefinitely, if you travel to India), then do that. Also, I assure you that setting limits and boundaries is not an unheard of concept. It may not be old-school culturally preferable, but it's not a foreign concept.

One's home is one's sanctuary - you are well within your rights to not have to give up the solace of your home indefinitely.
posted by raztaj at 6:15 AM on November 1, 2012

So, please resolve this argument for us, Mefites.Is it unreasonable to want to know how long your visitor will visit???Is it unreasonable to want to know?

Your family operated in this way, so it's totally reasonable.

The problem is that his family doesn't and isn't going to change, so the argument isn't going to be resolved in the sense that one of you is right and one of you is wrong and the person who's wrong will change.

You're both going to have realize that there are different ways of handling family visits and both you (and your families) should compromise a little.

Which is more important to you, knowing when someone is arriving or when they are leaving? Whichever it is, ask to have that time more closely adhered to, while leaving the other a bit more loose. That way, everyone is giving a little and your inner introvert is being satisfied a bit. As a fellow introvert, don't expect others to understand this. That's ok, it's their issue, not yours.

Also, is there actually any way to ask a guest, how long their visit is for, WITHOUT sounding rude?

Probably not and that's ok.

Think of it this way: You may find it rude that his family operates this way and completely ignores the agreed upon times. To his family, it's completely normal. So it's not that either one is being rude, but they're operating from different and conflicting norms that force the appearance of rudeness. In order to resolved that conflict, you and your husband will have to accept that y'all may be perceived as a little rude and be ok with that, in order get you some piece of mind in your own household. That may be hard to accept on an internal level.

Talk it over with the spouse and both think on it and the best way to approach his family. Pose it as more different family customs and ask them to respect your families a little bit, as you respect and work with theirs.

Good luck!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:17 AM on November 1, 2012

I agree that even if you asked you couldn't rely on their response. I agree that your husband should be on your team.

My impulse would be that your husband springs for a nice hotel for you after x days of guests and deals with the hosting on his own. But even you paying for the hotel or mini trip or air bnb is probably worth your sanity and the boundaries.

The other option I see is embracing the role he's (obnoxiously) assigned to you and being willing to be the bad guy to his family. It may well be worth it.

Seriously your husband's meanness about this is pushing deal breaker buttons to me. Maybe think about couples therapy, possibly from someone who shared some of your and his cultural background?
posted by Salamandrous at 7:05 AM on November 1, 2012

Part of your problem may be different ideas of what it means to have company. I've been in your shoes (introvert and all), and was incredibly frustrated until I realized that I was going much to far in my idea of what "hosting" meant in some situations. Your inlaws are your family, and from your description are acting like it (offering to help cook, etc.). They're likely not expecting you to drop everything and hang out and chat with them all the time. That's something that you're expecting from yourself. Next time this happens, just go about your life. You don't need to drop everything to hang out with them and host them. Do it for the first X days, and after that, make time for yourself. If you want a long hot bath - take one. If you need some alone time to read or watch TV or space out? Take it. Having friends over for dinner? Go for it, just be aware your inlaws may eat with you, too. You're approaching your inlaws with a certain amount of formality, which seems like it's culturally warranted, but being family changes things. Relax a little more around them, and the length of the visit becomes less of an issue.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't ask how long they will stay. It's just a way to cope with the fact that even with the best of intentions they may end up staying longer than they said.
posted by stoneweaver at 7:13 AM on November 1, 2012 [4 favorites]

you have to simply communicate in their language- DarlingBri's advice is perfect. Another way to ask how long they plan to stay is by saying something like "this weekend we'll be having a picnic, you will be with us right? the following weekend we're going to sibby auntie's house in new york for a few days, we're really looking forward to shopping!'

the first statement about the picnic may get you a response which includes an indication of how long they'll plan to stay, 'no we're planning to leave before then/yes of course we love picnics' this will encourage them to stay as long as the weekend, which you might not want, but on the other hand is diplomatic/culturally appropriate for that very reason. the second statement about sibby auntie makes their visit's expiration date clear.

good luck :)
posted by saraindc at 7:16 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]